Backing Tracks at Festivals

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Hamish
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 10:22 AM

Thanks for the namecheck, Bernard. And, Barbara, I feel I need to reply. I only do the looping thing sparingly as part of an otherwise live at the very split-second of delivery set. And, as Bernard eloquently explained, the looping is performed as a seamless part of the song: there's no stop/start at all. As soon as the three parts have been laid down it's straight into the song. (Which after three verses on trumpet can be a challenge to the old lungs)

I enjoy the looks on the faces of a folk audience: initial scepticism for the most part. And when I get to the singing part of the song - and it's quite soon - the looks change to "Oh, I get it. Phew! It's all right, really." It always generates lots of questions and positive comments but never (yet) any adverse comments.

I would never, ever use anything pre-recorded.

I agree that the festival shouldn't book anybody who uses pre-recorded stuff, not even in the free entry pub sessions.

However, having been to Broadstairs a couple of times now, it didn't take long for me to figure out that there are two festivals: the folkies one, and the one that serves for the kids who are probably there every weekend regardless of whether there's a festival on or not.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: GUEST,Ebor_fiddler
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:49 AM

We get this kind of thing frequently by "buskers" in York. Not only "Folk", but also so-called "classical" performers. As it is written "Karaoke is karaoke" and not live music - but punters still put money in their bags (and the Council still license the blighters!).

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 07:18 PM

There are such things as acoustic backing tracks.

Anybody seen a barrel organ or pianola at a singaround?

I guess the appropriate answer to anyone who's managed to carry their pianola to the session and asks if they can use it would be "certainly, SIR!!".

I'm just waiting for a steam calliope to turn up on EBay.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 07:01 PM

A LOT of Pro Musos use backing on LapTop computers ! Means there IS a Band Sound (Bass , Drums sometimes Keyboard) while two other instruments and voices are Live
Not sure I would be happy with it in a 'Folk' context though

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Bernard
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 06:43 PM

Barbara, I know exactly what you mean!

However, as one novelty item of an otherwise 'normal acoustic set', I think it's just a bit of fun. I wouldn't like to see everyone do it as part of every 'acoustic set', though - it would get very tedious!!

Nor could I ever see me doing it - although there was someone who reckoned I must have had something done with the bass end of my accordion, because there seems to be a lot going on and not much movement from my fingers... Tom Bliss, as I recall!

But I digress...!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: BB
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:15 PM

John M., that lady had been coming to the singarounds for years, and had received nothing but encouragement from us, and sang both with guitar and unaccompanied. After the occasion of which you speak, I told her, I hope in a nice and positive way, that it wasn't really appropriate in what was essentially a live music session, since when she has never darkened the door of our singarounds again, nor I think of the festival until this year. She apparently recently told someone who attends the singarounds regularly that she thinks I'm an evil old bag, or words to that effect, although I was pleased to see that she has this year come back to the festival (and not using recordings!).

Anahata, I think you misunderstand Broadstairs Folk Week. It was from the very beginning primarily a festival for the public, and it has grown to include more and more for 'folkies'. It is true that quite a lot of what goes on is not everyone's idea of 'folk', but then nor is Cambridge, and there are others one could quote. The 'pub gigs' and the free shows have encouraged many locals and holiday makers to get involved in folk, and to try other things in the festival, and Broadstairs doesn't become an invasion of a holiday town just by folkies as, for instance, does Sidmouth or Whitby. It's a great festival to be involved in, and there is lots of 'real' folk.

As to Rafflesbear's initial posting, yes, I'd heard similar and I think they were actually booked for the pub gigs, although I doubt that Kim knew they were going to be using backing tracks. I don't believe there is any place in a folk festival, however broad it may be, for using anything other than live music.

I've seen Jo Freya doing something akin to what Bernard describes above, but wasn't very keen on the whole idea - I like to be able to see performers actually performing at the time I'm hearing it. The fact that it has been recorded by the same performer in front of me a few days before or a few minutes before is not the same.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: open mike
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:53 PM

this should be looked into and specifically written into the contract by the booking agent, producer or venue owner....perhaps the person
puttng on the concert was jsut as surprised as the audience members (those who paid any attention ) and they might want it planned in the
future...and tell the performer that LIVE music means "live" music.

I have heard some musicians who otherwise play good acoustic music
get so involved in the effects that it does not seem live anymore.

so, it is a good rule: if you want to "play with yourself",
do it in private!

some musicians also send around a demo disc, to promote their live
performance, that includes all sorts of studio musicians who will
not be with them when they arrive at your venue on their tour.

false advertising!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Maryrrf
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:15 PM

I would not want to see somebody performing to back up tracks at a festival, folk club, or serious concert. Surely there must be plenty of talented musicians who could been booked who could have provided their own instrumental accompaniment. A casual pub gig would be a different matter - then I probably wouldn't be very impressed, but i wouldnt' feel cheated either.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:22 AM

I used to do part of a pub set, many years ago, where I plugged a CD player into my combo amp and played backing tracks for my electric guitar and vocals. However, the difference was that all the backing tracks and all parts on the CD - bass, drums, keyboards, etc. - had been recorded by me in my home studio, and I used to stress this before I kicked off on the set. It also formed just part of the whole set - about 50% - and I really considered it just a bit of fun, a sort of novelty, in those days.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Peace
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 11:45 PM

Of course, that was a basket house, not a festival.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Peace
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 11:45 PM

I worked for about four months in the mid-1960s with a gal who sang--lovely voice--and used a tape recorded back-up done by her piano player. If I remember correctly her name was Barbara and there was no way in a basket house she'd have been able to pay her way thru university (music degree) had she needed to split the take. She did really good sets and earned above the average.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: dwditty
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 11:40 PM

karaoke by any other name is still karaoke...just my opinion.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Effsee
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 10:20 PM

..."I take comfort in the fact that while the former are playing, there is more room in the bars where the musicians are."...Aye, and there's the nub!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Dead Horse
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 05:14 PM

There are pub gigs, and there are pub gigs.
Some of 'em cater to the masses who are there to drink alco pops & lager,
while the real deal is in the pub over the road with proper musicians.
I take comfort in the fact that while the former are playing, there is more room in the bars where the musicians are.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: treewind
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:25 PM

"One of the sad things about it was that the pub audience didn't seem to care"
Sadly, a lot of Broadstairs Folk Festival seems rather like that. As folk festivals go, it comes down rather heavily on the side of amplified pub musical wallpaper. I'm sure Tom and Barbara's session is different though.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 01:52 PM

Yes, it's a sad reflection on these technologically 'advanced' times that people see fit to 'cheat' an audience in this way.

However, I recently saw Hamish Currie at Saddleworth Folk Festival using a digital 'loop' machine. He played his trumpet into a microphone, which recorded the melody into a pedal box. He then hit another pedal, which played that back whilst he recorded a harmony. He then added a third recording, which was then played back whilst he sang.

Rik Saunders of Fairport does a similar thing, as I recall. But the difference is that these two people are actually playing live.

This practice was originally pioneered by the late Les Paul, of course.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 01:33 PM

Well last time I was at the Sailing Club session, run by Tom and Barbara, a lady sang to a prerecorded backing track, laid down by her son.
I'm sorry, but I was flabbergasted, and I hope never to see it happen again.
JM

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Mick Woods
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 01:22 PM

I agree totally. I think it is an insult to an audience - especially at folk clubs and folk festivals where a large number of people are usually musicians themselves, or have certainly dabbled in music. There is enough karaoke rubbish in the crap pubs across the country!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 01:22 PM

I dunno mate who said you have to play all the instruments(or any) to be taken seriously?

Subject: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: GUEST,Rafflesbear
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 01:02 PM

At the otherwise brilliant Broadstairs Folk Week there was a duo doing the rounds playing with backing tracks! At times the tracks were so loud and comprehensive that I couldn't hear the instruments they were actually playing (if they were actually playing and not miming)

One of the sad things about it was that the pub audience didn't seem to care and I was even more saddened to see that while I was there they actually sold two CDs on the strength of their karaoke performance

Surely this is the pits for any self respecting performer to turn up to a festival with recorded or synthesised backing. There must have been a quality act out there who could have given the real deal and would have been delighted to do so

any thoughts?