Backing Tracks at Festivals

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 12:06 PM

DarowynI played at a Halloween night, and decided that a few sound effects would help the song along. So I compiled them on my laptop. Then I needed to make sure that that they came in at the right time in the song, so I added a rhythm track so I could be sure I was playing at the right tempo. A scary synth pad seemed to add a bit of atmosphere too, so that went on as well, and made it easier to keep up with the chord changes, then a few violin fills...
So I played to a backing track with live vocals and guitar. The Mic, the guitar and the laptop were all plugged into the PA.
So what?,
Why not record the vocals & guitar as well. You could have sent the recording in and stayed home to play with your Hi-Tec toys!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: BB
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:28 PM

"I just wanted to say why pick on the unfortunate person(s) who didn't have their own band when you allow all the other stuff that is also not strictly acoustic."

As far as the Broadstairs Singaround was concerned, the person in question could, and did on occasions, play guitar - fairly basic but acceptable, and could and did sing unaccompanied. She WAS singing to a TAPE recording of her son, made at home, because he didn't want to come to the festival, and it was played through an ordinary portable tape player. No other non-acoustic, non-live performance is acceptable in this particular context - it just isn't appropriate. It's nothing to do with being a Luddite or not, although I did express my view on what I am "not keen on" and why. Hamish, I'm prepared to be converted - but not in a singaround please! :-)

I don't have anything against PA in an appropriate situation - I too have heard Mike Silver in a club situation where normally PA wouldn't have been necessary, and it wasn't a problem. I've even used it in a club I've run as the acoustics of the room were so lousy (we've moved now, thank goodness!). I can see that sometimes it's a matter of balance between musicians, and providing it's no louder than normal acoustic sound, I don't have a problem with it.

ONE of the things that attracted me to folk music, and has kept me attracted to it almost to the exclusion of all else, was it's essentially acoustic nature, and artificial volume. Even in my youth when I was into pop music, I hated the high volume levels - I suspect this applies to many people.

So I don't have a problem with PA, nor experimentation with loops or pre-recorded backing tracks in appropriate circumstances - perhaps the concert stage, although whether or not I could be persuaded to actually enjoy it remains to be seen.

Oh, and we do NOT have a narrow, exclusive attitude in the Singaround or at our club - rather a very open accepting attitude - any kind of music, song, poetry, recitation, story, dance, or whatever - but essentially acoustic!

Barbara

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Tyke
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 09:05 PM

Reminds me of the Leeds University Lecturer who left a tape recording of his lecture for his students. When he returned he found a lecture theatre full of tape recorder's listening to his lecture.

KEEP MUSIC LIVE!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Hamish
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:38 AM

Barbara: I did do one song in one of your singarounds. Late on Thursday in fact. It was unaccompanied - except on the refrains where folks joined with particularly enthusiasm. (Dave Taylor's "Through Pissheads and through Bikers"). I have also sometimes followed the high-tech looping with "of course, there's the traditional way of achieving the same thing" and we've sung a round. :-)

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Sooz
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 03:45 AM

We weren't impressed when we saw Jacqui McShee's Pentangle playing to backing tracks a few years ago - especially when they were not on top of the technology!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Darowyn
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 04:21 AM

"Why not record the vocals & guitar as well. You could have sent the recording in and stayed home to play with your Hi-Tec toys!"
Because I like playing live.
Because music is a social thing, it needs to have a performer and a listener.
I'm surprised that you need to ask!
I have, of course, recorded the vocals and guitar as well. Those of us who understand all this high-tech stuff call that a CD track.
This was a live performance.
Got it now?
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 07:35 AM

Yes, we understand a performer's need for an audience - but in the appropriate setting, please. The art of being a performer is understanding the needs of your audience, and deriving your pleasure from satisfying those needs. A performer who does not have this basic understanding quickly loses the interest of most audiences.

What we're attempting to establish here is whether people think a folk festival environment (and even a folk club) is indeed the right sort of setting for performances relying upon backing tracks, and so far most people seem to agree that it isn't.

If you are such a performer, you have a vested interest in putting forward your opinion; feeling sorry for someone who hasn't the expected skills isn't really an argument in favour of the case, either. You might just as well argue that someone who cannot sing a note in tune has every right to expect festival bookings... well, it's fine if they are a skilled instrumentalist, but not if they intend to sing!

There's a suggestion, though, of a worrying trend which may result in it not being a novelty exception for very much longer, despite the wishes of many.

We're not being 'party-poopers', trying to deny people a chance to perform in front of an audience... but it's 'horses for courses'... what does the audience want? The general consensus on backing tracks seems to be 'no thanks'... for reasons already eloquently given.

There was a lot of opposition to 'folk rock' during its infancy, but it found its niche. It doesn't suit all audiences, though. Unaccompanied trad singing doesn't suit all audiences, either. It's a healthy thing that there are diverse interests to suit all tastes. As Bill Cosby once said 'I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone'.

Sadly, though, we've found yet another example of something that people seem to want to dump into the 'folk' category because (perhaps?!) nobody else wants it...!! But that's a completely different debate!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 08:02 AM

Dave, I'm sorry - having re-read my post it looks as if I'm suggesting you cannot read your audience, and that is NOT what I intended to say. Please don't take offence!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 08:18 AM

"any thoughts?" (Rafflesbear)...I agree with you.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 10:15 AM

Deplorable.

But one has to say it is representative of the wider culture. Buskers do it and if that isn't folk - what is? The concept rather than the fare.
And to get attention buskers amplify loudly - usually.

I would probably leave smartly. Or ask them to join a session - they would have to play acoustically or risk a severe drubbing.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: BB
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 10:51 AM

A round sounds like a good idea to me, Hamish! Yes, I did realise it was you when you said your name (sorry I didn't realise earlier), and I'm glad you enjoyed the chorus singing - a standard cultivated over many years! Bearing in mind the title of your song, and the way it was received, it doesn't sound as though we're 'narrow and exclusive', does it? ;-)

Barbara

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Hamish
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 11:05 AM

Au contraire: very welcoming. Barbara.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: BB
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 04:54 PM

Rafflesbear, I would like to contact you privately about this (as you started the thread), but it looks as though you're not a Mudcat member. It would be useful if you were, especially as you post quite frequently.

Otherwise, I'd be grateful if you could e-mail me at tomandbarbara at umbermusic dot co dot uk.

Thanks.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 02:52 PM

The first time I encountered a singer carrying his little boom box onstage to provide accompaniment, I was very dismayed and taken aback. The artist was a favorite or mine, and a truly great vocalist: Aaron Neville, who normally performs with a band including his three brothers and a few additional musicians.

Aaron can play some piano, reporetedly, but does not do so onstage; he is a vocalist who relies on accompaniment. The event was a benefit of some kind and I believe that Aaron wanted to contribute his services without having to coerce anyone else into appearing to back him up.

The set was fine, of course, if a little strange.

I agree that "canned" accompaniment is inappropriate for most any kind of folk festival or concert, and that in almost any context, it carries a whiff of unprofessionalism.

Now, "looping" to achieve some kind of one-man-band performance ~ that's much more OK with me. One very talented guitarist who performs at our local mostly-acoustic coffeehouse does a solo electric-guitar act wherein he plays a few measures, or even an entire verse, while recording it, and then (immediately and seamlessly) allows it to repeat while he plays over the recording as it replays.

And then, taking it several steps farther, there is the incomparable Theresa Andersson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Li-DaJny4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8xx6xKKJ6A&feature=channel

May not be "folk," but it sure is music!

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:36 PM

"Backing tracks at Festivals"

It would never even occur to me to want to use backing tracks for any performance of folk music. Just me, my voice, and my guitar, all live and on the spot (and sometimes not even the guitar). The house PA system, yes, if needed. But a canned music backup?

It strikes me that someone who uses pre-recorded backing tracks is sort of missing the point.

I suppose in some people's minds, that makes me some kind of dinosaur.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:39 PM

Of course no one thinks you are a dinosaur mate
Now settle down and eat yer cave men.

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:40 PM

Oh bugger missed the LOL of the end .
lOL

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:03 PM

Yum!!

(But I spit out the drum machine.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:14 AM

I can't imagine sitting on the front porch with music friends singing & someone starts off a song by winding up the player for background sound. Like going shopping at the Mall.

Barry

Subject: RE: Backing Tracks at Festivals
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:30 AM

It all depends on the creative resourcefulness and imagination of any given individual, as to how much of a cop out or not using prerecorded backing might be IMO. Using a taped backing at a song session, seems rather bizarre and redundant to my mind to say the least.

And yet many sounds cannot be generated by acoustic instruments - or indeed any instrument other than technology and software. In such circumstances, using a recorded backing might even be an innovative and creative leap.

As far as a song or acoustic music session is concerned, if you *want* straightforward backing but can't play, why not simply get to know those regulars who DO, and make it work that way?

I think it's taking to pee somewhat to expect anyone to pay to watch a performer sing Kareoke style though.