BS: Speaking ill of the dead...

Subject: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 07:49 AM

From the Wikipedia front page for today:

... that after English rugby international forward Denys Dobson was killed by a charging rhinoceros, he was reportedly said to always have had "a weak hand off"?

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:01 AM

Well, using rhinos would certainly change the game.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 12:35 PM

So no one is allowed to discuss anyone's shortcomings, such as an aspect of a sports personality's playing style that was not his forte, after his passing? Are we supposed to glorify dead people to the point of rewriting history?

Some Mudelf had better delete the Robert Novak obit thread, then... :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 01:19 PM

De mortuorum nil nisi bonum

"Concerning the dead, say nothing but good."
Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: curmudgeon
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 01:23 PM

"The good that men do is oft interred with their bones..." - Mark Antony

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Ythanside
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 01:54 PM

"When I am dead may they speak the truth..." Newry Highwayman

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 02:22 PM

"If someone's a son of a bitch while he'a alive, being dead doesn't make him less of a son of a bitch. It only makes him a dead son of a bitch."

My father, spoken upon the death of my aunt Mabel's second husband.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Ref
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:20 PM

...and paraphrased by me upon the demise of Tony Snow.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:12 PM

I'm with you, Manitas. A normal person, speaking of the death of another normal person, ought to wait for the shock and grief to pass before making a snide remark about the victim's athletic weakness.

On second thought, it doesn't matter what the dead person was like. What matters is how those grieving are taking it and what they need from their families. Aunt Mabel, for example, may have been married to an SOB, but that may not be what she needs to hear from her loved ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:23 PM

That wasn't "a snide remark about the victim's athletic weakness", it was a Rugby joke, in the mode of irony.

Pointing out that a tugby player was unable to hand-off a charging rhino is not exactly an accusation of "athletic weakness" - in fact it's a backhanded tribute to athletic strength.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 08:43 PM

I have a sneaking suspicion of how 'don't speak ill of the dead' got started.

Perhaps you have not been exposed to as much superstition in your lives as I have, but I know for a fact that there are people who to this day believe that dead people can haunt you and can hurt you. It is only a step from that, imo, to postulate that he/she is listening to you talk. About him/her.

I've even been told that the reason that so many people die quite quickly after their spouse died is that the dead one misses them and has come for them, ergo, take care of your health, especially after someone you loved dies.

And watch those dreams! They'll usually warn you.

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: open mike
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:23 PM

some tribes have a taboo about speaking of the dead at all..

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 11:44 PM

Speaking ill of the dead:

This then should be above the line.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 03:00 AM

Kevin is correct. It was the sort of ironic remark that could have only been made by someone who has studied and admired the deceased closely. It's an example of fatalistic humour and not a snide remark.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 06:26 AM

I am grateful for that, Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Paul Burke
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 07:58 AM

What did the rhinoceros charge?

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: GUEST,Padre, temporarily w/o cookie
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 09:52 PM

Three pounds, ten

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Joe_F
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 10:02 PM

You can argue it both ways. On the one hand, the dead aren't in a position to defend themselves, but on the other, they aren't in a position to be offended either. The law in the US, at any rate, takes the latter position: you can't libel dead people; their reputation is open to debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Gurney
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 02:18 AM

Gallows humour, as McGrath and Manitas said.
A 'Hand Off' is an open-handed blocking push, to an attempting tackler.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 04:39 AM

OK, you've explained the hand-off, but who's the Mexican stand-off?

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Micca
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 04:44 AM

yeah, I understood it to be very much an ironic rugby palyer comment too, it reminded me of an incident after closing time in the university I worked at where members of the rugby team exited the College bar passing a beer can in the manner of a rugby "line" John H the end man on the line heard a sound on his blind side and put up his hand in a classic "hand off " gesture only to have his wrist broken by the big red No 11 London bus that was coming up the street! he had his leg pulled about this for many years.

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 10:03 AM

Speaking ill of the dead may be an exercise in futility unless there is a historical reason to do so.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Speaking ill of the dead...
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 12:23 PM

Well, Hitler was good to his dog. Idi Amin was nice to crocodiles. Elizabeth Bathory was good to young girls. John Wayne Gacy liked to dress up as a clown for children's parties.

See, there are always good things you can say about the dead.