BS: Legal action over BNP membership

Subject: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:44 AM

It was good to arrive home from Moira Furnace Folk Festival and find an email from Hope not Hate notifying me that the Luton protest had been prevented from going ahead.

The Hope not Hate campaign states its aims are two fold -

To celebrate modern Britain
and
To expose the extremism behind the BNP

I believe there is a strong need for the latter especially has there have been previous attempts to spread pernicious racist views on this site both above and below the BS line

Simply trading insults with the kind of people that shouted abuse at us at Codnor doesn't appear to me to serve any useful purpose and, counter productively, only serves to lose posts, such as the one Owen mentioned on the 24th - that the UK's equalities watchdog has begun legal action against the British National Party over concerns about ethnic restrictions on its membership - in a morass of mutual taunts.

A statement from The Equality and Human Rights Commission said
""The commission believes the BNP's constitution and membership criteria are discriminatory and, further, that the continued publication of them on the BNP website is unlawful.

"It has therefore issued county court proceedings against party leader Nick Griffin and two other officials."

Here is the Section of the BNP's constitution which deals with membership
Section 2

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:03 AM

Emma B "Simply trading insults.............doesn't appear to me to serve any useful purpose".

I agree. I know it's very hard to resist rising to the bait when "Sam" or one of his mates posts some virulent racist rubbish, and I'll own up it's happened to me. But honestly, these people are not worth arguing with. There are a lot of otherwise good sound folk out there who are seduced by racist arguments, because they just don't understand the issues involved. But case hardened fascists are noxious and narrow minded. And they are like a bunch of childish kids shouting abuse to draw attention to themselves. If Mudcat people ignored them they would stop posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:14 AM

David Hannam

Position: former BNP branch organiser for Hull and now the party's accountant and deputy treasurer

2000 - Three months custody for his part in the production and distribution of a racist and anti-Semitic leaflet during the 1999 European election campaign.

Managing Director of Great White Records, a United Kingdom-based company that describes itself as a "patriotic record label", affiliated to the British National Party

Wrote the music for and sang the song (with lyrics by Nick Griffin) that featured in the BNP's party political broadcast in 2005


277 POSTS TO MUDCAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:34 AM

277 POSTS TO MUDCAT!

No, 360. You forgot to count the some dozen GUEST posts as "Dave Hannan"

Wolfgang (to whom "Dave" doesn't make this person any more likable than "David")

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:43 AM

Thanks Wolfgang :)

'Vigilant not vituperative' !

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:50 AM

The mayor of a town council has been charged with breaking into women's homes and stealing underwear.

Ian Stafford, 58, who has reportedly resigned as Mayor of Preesall in Lancashire, was charged on Monday by Lancashire Police with three counts of burglary in connection with the missing garments.

Female residents called in police after their underwear kept disappearing and one woman even installed a hidden camera in her bedroom.

A Lancashire police spokesman said: "Ian Stafford has been charged with three counts of burglary in a dwelling in connection with incidents at addresses in Preesall, Poulton-le-Fylde and Stalmine between January 1 and June 26 2009."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:14 AM

Emma, thanks for the heads up on David Hannam - a totally nasty bastard. I'll keep my eyes peeled for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:18 AM

And, of course, there was the time when David Hannam and Mark Collett took 14 and 15-year old girls back to their hotel room:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE2FCqsNtyw

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:30 AM

Well I missed that last little piece of sad and scurrilous news today but totally fail to see what it has to do with the current thread - perhaps Sam you'd like to relocate it somewhere more appropiate?

Meanwhile, back to purpose....

Back in 2005 Little Musgrave, addressing a 'music' thread started by David/Dave Hannam wrote

'It would be nice to think that by ignoring the BNP they'll just go away. Unfortunately the only thing that seems to work (as the late 70s shows) is to challenge them at every step. Otherwise the folk memory of what a bunch of thugs they are tends to fade away, and before we know it, someone like Nick Griffin comes along and tries to turn them into a credible force'


Ignoring the BNP is not the answer although I think people like Sam are just attention seeking trouble makers intent on disrupting the forum and hardly worth the bother of replying to.

What is important is not to either ignore or simply oppose the racist slurs and outright lies often the subject of threads here but to continue to EXPOSE them with facts.

While Griffin claims the BNP is not racist this is what he has to say on miscegenation

'Nor even does it mean that we think that it is a good thing for even a single person of European stock to have so much as one child with a Japanese or Chinese.
We do not, because such a union mixes what are not meant to be mixed, destroys two ancient family lines, and undermines two equally great but entirely separate cultures.
Much though many people would rather see a totally all-white Britain, this less than perfect arrangement and the fact that the United States of America is under the control of multi-racist fanatics who would bomb this country back into the Stone Age if we gave them the excuse by evicting the last non-whites at gunpoint.

However much we understand why miscegenation is fundamentally a bad thing, here are a hundred ways in which miscegenation could be discouraged – having TV soaps portray the problems it really can cause rather than presenting a fantasy picture of how wonderful it is supposed to be would be just one. Best of all, however, would be an education system that teaches children of different races to have pride in their own people and to understand the essentially unnatural and destructive nature of miscegenation.

Do I regard a black or Asian, who loves Britain, as a suitable candidate to stand for the BNP at election time? No, I do not.

Do I regard someone who is married to or living with a partner of another race as a suitable member or candidate for the BNP? No, because by their choice they have clearly shown that they do not share our most fundamental values."

'Vigilant not vituperative'

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:36 AM

I've just advised people to ignore postings by Sam and similar, but his latest is just too funny for words. "The mayor of a town council has been charged with breaking into women's homes and stealing underwear."

I remember Colin Jordan, leader and founder of the British Movement, being convicted for stealing three pairs of women's knickers, all coloured red, from a Tesco store. His defence? It's a frameup. Tesco is a Jewish company.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:43 AM

Emma. Sorry. I posted my previous posting before I saw your comments on the dangers of ignoring the BNP.

Just to clarify things, I agree entirely. Ignoring the BNP is like ignoring cancer, with potentially the same lethal consequences. But scurrilous arguments from the likes of Sam, or whatever he plans to call himself next, are best regarded as the cyberspacial equivalent of toilet paper.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:42 AM

Restriction on membership is a thorny problem.

As much as we dislike the fact that a club might restrict people we champion, and in the case of the BNP only makes sense in the context of racial discrimination but.....

Private members clubs have sometimes good reason and the danger of making exceptions in law rewards only the lawyers.

Would we expect the Mothers' Union to expect the inclusion of the Jewish, Zoroastrian, and Muslim faith? It is a Union based on the Church of England. TWG and WI similalry are gender based.

I once applied for a job at a Christian Book company. They were not allowed to insist I was a Christian, but they were at pains to point out that there would be mandatory prayer breaks instead of tea drinking. Maybe I didn't get the job because I only drink coffee. My devout Atheism was never discussed.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Stower
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:43 AM

About time. I have often wondered how the BNP remain a legal entity. Let's hope they are illegalised out of existence. It won't change the hardcore views of hardcore members, of course, but it will take away their legal flatform, take away a stepping stone into extremism from those on the fringes of temptation into legalised vicious hatred, and make me feel a whole lot safer.

Ever so slightly off topic, I know, but the comment above, "But scurrilous arguments from the likes of Sam, or whatever he plans to call himself next" is surely a good argument for making Mudcat a members only forum, as this thread is currently discussing. As someone who has been on the receiving end of extreme abuse from non-members (now deleted, thanks, Max), I would welcome this move wholeheartedly.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:03 AM

I am interested in olddude's idea of getting a suitably insured US contingency lawyer to sue Fakebook - who in turn might well seek an indemnity from their BNP members

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:11 AM

A political party is 'a political organization that seeks to attain and maintain political power within government' - I don't think an analogy with the Womens Institute is altogether useful unless its aims have changed significantly in recent years :)


We have publicly-funded party political broadcasts; in the Scottish Parliament election the party fielded 32 candidates which entitled the BNP to public funding for its campaign and an election broadcast paid for by taxpayers who yet have no right to even join the party on the grounds of their race or even marriage to someone of another race.

and this observation from the (hardly left leaning) Daily Mail!

"The far right British National Party will pocket £5.2million of taxpayers' money to spread its message of hate in the European Parliament.

Party leader Nick Griffin and his fellow MEP Andrew Brons will get paid more than £446,000 each in salary, office and travel allowances every year.

The breakthrough will also enable them to siphon more than £147,000 each year directly into party coffers.

That will bring the total the BNP will be able to pocket to more than a million pounds a year for the next five years."

furthermore...... if

"the BNP forms a new political grouping in the Brussels Parliament with other far right parties it would get a share of public funds direct from Brussels to run campaigns. This 'political expenditure' would be worth £36,755 a year to the party. It would also get around £110,798 in administrative support for its work with the far right group.
The £183,776 a year it can claim in staff and office allowances will also keep several other BNP officials in work at taxpayers' expense."

Should a political party siphoning off public funds in this way have the same status as a 'private club'?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:51 AM

Richard, Bruce and other catters with facebook problems
check out this link. I guess this guy is like a shark with chum ... he will go after facebook and it will cost you nothing but a % of settlement.

Class Action Attorney

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 10:14 AM

For good or bad in the US the slander civil laws do get pursued. If someone saying they are you and used your good name as part of a hate group you have been damaged. And the attorneys would jump up and down with a smile on their face. It is a no lose situation for them and they will make sure you are compensated well since they get their chunk. What is more impressive to them if it is a group of people you see. Now the payoff is much higher. Facebook would settle out of court and then do what they can to recover their losses. US companies are not in the business of politics to lose money ... Money is their driving force the reason they have the site to start with ... they won't pay and just let it sit, they will do what they have to do to get the settlement money back. That is the way it works here. I read someplace that if you live in a state like California you have a 96% chance of getting sued for something sometime in your life.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 11:42 AM

I have sent them an email, olddude. We shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 01:50 PM

!For good or bad in the US the slander civil laws do get pursued."
- olddude

The USA at one point (and it may still be) was considered the most litigious country in the world, that's not a path I would choose to go down, the case, no matter what it maybe ca get tied up in the courst for years, that's time wasted as far as I'm concerned, when that time could be put to better use.

Stand and be Counted!

Charlotte Olivia Reynolds

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 02:04 PM

Lemme know if I can do something from Canada. (Keep in mind that the Province in which I live has no 'class action' lawsuits. However, I did post some stuff from Montreal and Quebec DOES have class actions suits.)

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:53 PM

I see superb potential to disrupt the BNP once and for all.

Imagine if the BNP were forced to include all those who wished to be members regardless of racial or other minority credentials.

And then if millions of non-whites, homosexuals, the disabled etc all joined up.

It would dissolve the party like an Aspirin in water.

What would be left?

A BNP made up of a diverse demographic - the Union Flag reclaimed by all of its citizens.

The final nail in the coffin for old uncle Oswald.


These Laws could work better than anyone ever imagined.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:37 PM

Peace it would not hurt you to fire off an email to that guy.   anyone who thinks a lawsuit doesn't get your attention is kidding themselves. Who the hell cares if it takes 100 years you are not paying for it and tying them up in court is exactly what you want to do. unless of course you are a member yourself then I can see your objection

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:39 PM

Will do, olddude.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:40 PM

BTW, we ARE going to nail these bastards. I mean right between the eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:40 PM

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:16 PM

By the way I was involved with a class action suite. You file the papers then the attorneys battle it out with the company, then you cash a check when it is over mine was for 50 dollars wow but I made a statement along with 10000 other people who were scammed by a company... and you are right the US is the most civil nonsense country in the world for law suites. But it works .. The defendant has to show up and battle it out for a great deal of legal costs or they simply lose ... then they will go after the culpits that caused them the grief ... Like I said they are not in the business to lose money because of fraud

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:52 PM

E-Mail sent.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:10 PM

ok, try again.

there are two problems with joining the BNP just becuase we can.
the first being, we would have to do it on mass, to be sure that we are not the minority, i have no wish to ut myself in that sort of dangerous situation.
the second and more important problem, don't you have to pay a membership fee?   i would never contribute to the BNP funds.

what does this mean for the BNP in the euro parliment thingy? will they be fined or get a warniing, as i assume it is euro laws the have broken?


richard and others, please could we keep the facebook stuff on the thread for FB?

i really applaud what you are doing to try to rid us of these pests, but it is kind of taking over everywhere. thanks.

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:15 PM

This thread title is "Legal action over BNP membership".

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:01 PM

YES ... BNP membership, not facebook membership or BEBO membership or MYSPACE membership.


j x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:12 PM

sorry, over use of caps there.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:18 PM

Full report of the news article of the challenge to the BNP over its membership criteria.

'Imagine if the BNP were forced to include all those who wished to be members regardless of racial or other minority credentials.
And then if millions of non-whites, homosexuals, the disabled etc all joined up.
It would dissolve the party like an Aspirin in water.'

Nice thought Lox :) it might almost be worth the membership fee!

However the legal action is already being criticized by a Daily Telegraph journalist Gerald Warner lauded for his criticism of Obama by Michael Savage (who has been placed on a list of people banned from entering the UK) on his radio show

"In the Commission's worst-case scenario, it could even end up by accidentally outlawing many organisations of which it strongly approves as bastions of multicultural exclusivism. Whatever the eventual outcome, this whole farce will be conducted at the expense of taxpayers."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:52 AM

Sam, you'll be safer crawling back under your stone before someone treads on you. Remember that, outside Bransholme Estate, you're in a very, very tiny minority.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:21 AM

Remember that, outside Bransholme Estate, you're in a very, very tiny minority

I thought he was from Burnley?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:06 AM

Guest - until I know who you are please desist from calling me 'Darling' and, even then, I don't appreciate it as a form of address.

I'm quite aware of the rules that allow organizations and private clubs to allow restricted membership.

"The Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2007 came into force on 30th April 2007.
By virtue of S.16 of the Regulations it is unlawful for an Association (which includes a club provided it has 25 or more members and admission to membership is regulated by its constitution and is conducted so that the members do not constitute a section of the public) to discriminate against a non-member and/or a member due to his/her sexual orientation.

Discrimination laws are to be extended to private members club under the Bill insofar as they may not discriminate, harass or victimise a member, an associate member or guest due to a protected characteristic.
The characteristics that are protected by the Bill are: age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex and sexual orientation.

The Bill does however recognise that there are benefits to clubs with 'shared characteristics' and therefore same sex clubs, clubs for people of a particular religion, etc, will still be allowed where the main purpose of the club is to bring together people who share a particular characteristic (e.g. disabled sailing); and clubs will be able to impose the same restrictions on associate members and guests. 'All male' clubs or 'all female' clubs will be permitted but clubs will not be able to operate a mixed gender membership (i.e. male and female) and yet bar female members from sailing on certain days, while allowing male members to sail whenever they like."

It is quite apparent that these rules were not meant to apply to political parties


I have some experience of what it means as an 'ordinary person' to stand against a line of police and horses to block the way for the BNP and their various predecessors and the role of the police in maintaining public order

Your comment on the 'lesson' to be learned from the 30s is one that has been repeated by others; we do well to remember -

"That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
Aldous Huxley

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:05 AM

The House of Lords has held that political parties are 'membership associations' and thus are prohibited from discriminating on the grounds of race : Watt (formerly Carter) on behalf of other members of the Labour Party v. Ahsan UKHL 51

It is also unlawful for anyone to advertise unlawful membership criteria by virtue of section 29 of the Race Relations Act

On 22nd June The Equality and Human Rights Commission required a written undertaking that -

-the BNP amend its constitution no later than 1 October 2009 so as to ensure and to make transparent that it does not discriminate against potential or actual members on racial grounds, and that

-Pending the adoption of the amended constitution, the BNP will not refuse membership to any individual on racial grounds

The other two requirements requested by the commission to uphold the law
i.e.
that all constituents would be treated equally by BNP elected delegates regardless of race.
and
a requirement for job applicants to be BNP members, which the Commission said effectively restricted employees to white people and those from ethnic groups deemed acceptable to the party.

were accepted by the BNP but, apart from offering to clarify the word "white" in the context of its membership criteria and constitution the BNP refused to otherwise change its rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:19 AM

"It has nothing to do with discrimination; it's all to do with internal politicking"
- Lee Barnes, BNP, on the Equality and Human Rights commission's legal action

Really? And just how stupid does Lee Barnes think we are?

Is me stating that my skin colour is not white and my ethic group is not Anglo-Saxon politicing or simply stating the facts?

The BNP are racist, anti-semetic, homophobic (wonder how many closeted cases there are in the BNP?) and a whole lot more. That's not politicing, thems the facts Jack! It's that simple.

Stand and Be Counted!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:48 AM

Emma,

One way or another, the BNP will have to change their policy now that the wheels have started turning.

No subsequent political organization will be able to operate according to the same rules.

The door therefore will be open for anyone to join the BNP and, if they so wish, to vote for a new leader if enough people join and to vote for a change in its policies.

I personally would suggest a new policy in which the BNP would become officially affiliated with the Monster Raving Loony Party and that their policies be assumed onto the BNP manifesto.

Then I would suggest that the party leader wear a jester suit whenever called upon to sit in parliament or on any council to which he were elected, and to wear a suit of cellophane the rest of the time.

With enough support within the BNP membership there would be no reason why these motons should not be passed.

Another policy might be to give automatic membership to any newly instated British Citizen from abroad, particularly those who were previously classed as asylum seekers.


This is what an open door policy on membership to the BNP could easily result in.


But first the campaign would need to be started to interest people in joining.

Current BNP membership is pretty low in numbers.

It wouldn't take long to overwhelm them.

They of course would be more than welcome to join any other political parties ... oh ... they already do ... with minimal effect ...



This action is a stroke of Genius!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 12:09 PM

"i really applaud what you are doing to try to rid us of these pests, but it is kind of taking over everywhere. thanks."

When the thread starter tells me that I'll pay attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 12:20 PM

"Do I regard someone who is married to or living with a partner of another race as a suitable member or candidate for the BNP? No, because by their choice they have clearly shown that they do not share our most fundamental values"
- Nick Griffin

oooops...there goes hubbie's chances of BNP membership! *LOL*

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

the partner who is of another race

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 12:28 PM

LOL Lox
I've got just the headgear but the cellophane suit is too awful to contemplate with a possible view like this *

*Mick Holmes Ex Lincs BNP Organiser and Bodyguard to Nick Griffin

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:42 PM

i don't see why you are taking this so personally peace. i was asking politely, with no malice or disrespect, so why has it got up your' nose so much?

you have also changed your' arguement, first it was,
"this thread title is "Legal action over BNP membership". " by peace

now you object because the starter of the thread hasn't said anything.

make up your mind!

me thinks you just want to argue, i don't really want to, and by doing so will undermine this thread even more than the stupid post about knicker stealing.
however, i will not be bullied into silence by you or anyone else.

i try and respect everyone until they give me a reason not to and i never picked you to be so childish.

sorry to drag down the thread.

i feel better now, though i am sure i will regret this later, i try not be a hypocrite.

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:43 PM

It's really not the BNP's week

It was reported today that they face possible prosecution over failing to meet other legal requirements

"The BNP are facing huge fines and possible prosecution after they failed to submit records of donations.

The party faced an unprecedented warning from the head of the Electoral Commission after they also failed to submit their annual accounts to the watchdog, as required by electoral law.

Mystery surrounds how the BNP funded their European election campaign, which resulted in record gains for the party including the election of two MEPs.

Peter Wardle, the chief executive, issued a stark warning to the party

'We have not yet received a donation return for this quarter from the British National Party. This comes on top of their failure to deliver their latest annual statement of accounts to the Commission. This is unacceptable and the party will be issued with fines for both reporting failures. We will also be assessing the systems they have in place to ensure compliance with the law.' "

From Times Online August 26, 2009

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:46 PM

"Legal action over BNP membership"

1) There will be legal action taken against the BNP and some of its members

2) You didn't die and become the queen

3) I don't know what's up yer nose, but please leave it there

4) I did NOT object that the thread-starter (a friend of mine) said nothing. It's her call to make, not yours

S'long.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:49 PM

For one thing, Bruce...it's an ENGLISH PROBLEM. You are NOT English. Why not fight wars in YOUR home country for the issues there?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:06 PM

"For one thing, Bruce...it's an ENGLISH PROBLEM. You are NOT English. Why not fight wars in YOUR home country for the issues there?"
-Sorcha

Just because Bruce isn't English doesn't mean he can't take an interest in the issue, so perhaps if you don't like it, Sorcha, you should stay out of it, we don't need this sort of parochialist attitude, it's distracting from the main issue and that is, just in case you've forgotten, Legal action over BNP membership...

Stand and Be Counted!
Charlotte Olivia Robertson

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:14 PM

Oh for gods sake, Ollie. You have NO idea if I'm standing or not. All I'm saying is that we should ALL fight it WHERE we are BEST ABLE.....I have NO stroke in England...nor does Bruce. Our opinions on ENGLISH or BRITISH politics have NO meaning whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:16 PM

Weel, quietly and calmly, I thought that the potential other legal issues about the BNP might suit here. But if not, no sweat, I will keep those interested posted either individually or on the Fakebook or Real Richard Bridge threads.

AFAIK, last time fascism got out of hand it proved to be a global problem. Pearl Harbour, Sorcha?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:17 PM

thank you Richard - as the OP I appreciate that

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:18 PM

Bullshit, Sorcha. You speak just like people who said that the European Nazis had nothing to do with us. Lady, they would have had EVERYTHING to do with us and you'd be speaking German now had people seen things your way.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:19 PM

I'll join you, Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:24 PM

i really didn't think my request was that bad. thanks richard, i don't mean that to sound like i am not behind you all the way , but it is getting confusing as to where to look for the latest of your' triumphs, and i would like to keep following your' progress.

evryone has to do their bit, where ever we are BUT this mud slinging will not do anyone any good, lets be grown ups and just keep to the subject shall we?

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:26 PM

A very isolationist attitude.

Fine, then let the rest of us get on with it, including those who don't reside in Britain, for as has been noted the lat time fascism got out of hand, it became a world-wide problem.
It was the johnny-come - latelies (Sunday, December 7, 1941)who sat back and watched GB and Britain get the crap beaten out of them by the aforementioned fascist countries, and then rode in...well the rest, unfortunately is history.

Stand and Be Counted!
Charlotte Olivia Robertson

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:29 PM

Oh all right then....I stand corrected. My HUGEST apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:35 PM

But I STILL say we should ALL focus our efforts where it will do the MOST good.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:36 PM

now where were we...?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:43 PM

Well here is another suggestion. There are more than a few exceptional song writers on mudcat. A few good songs wouldn't hurt either. As Ron Bankley said, say it in music cause you can never underestimate how it moves people. If they want folk involvement, well I am sure this is the place to oblige them.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:51 PM

Sorry, I cant let that go ... so ...



What a surprise!


Peace (the poster with the ironic name) is hurling more Macho abuse at yet another innocent bystander.

Like the incredible hulk - only bright red - having a big tantrum.

Grrrrrr......

I'll swear if I want to - and you can't make me stop!!!


The point here is that "peace" wants to be the centre of attention in these discussions and does not care whether he adds or detracts from them.

He is loving the fact that he was singled out on facebook as it has given him an excuse to insult whoever he chooses and to make whatever glib point he likes and suddenly, the great hero/victim is right at the heart of the whole debate.

Bloodstreaked he stands on the shoulders of his British brethren, undeterred by the Nazi assault, his teeth gritted with grim determination to face the next barrage ...

... its like Bruce Willis against Alan Rickman in diehard ...

Yippee-kay-ay ... etc ...



Sorcha is quite cleaarly trying to address the fact that "Peace" has no right to go round abusing Brits who hate the BNP without provocation and has no right to act as though it is an issue that is somehow owned by him.


His self righteous narcissism is boring and I generally scroll past it nowadays.

Here in Britain, we are trying to have a genuine discussion about how to deal with our new political reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:56 PM

Yeah. You're not alone in that, Lox.

"Your new political reality." ??

They have been around you for years in one form or other. Why now and not then?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:57 PM

As for abuse, Lox, prove it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:00 PM

"Bloodstreaked he stands on the shoulders of his British brethren"
- Lox

gawd, there's purple prose for ya...

Harlequin Romances are always on the look out for writers

Charlotte Olivia Robertson

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:02 PM

Well hate is an international problem, but I do have a lot of confidence in the good people of Great Britain to do the right things. We have more than our share of hate groups in America. I made some suggestions for those who have been targeted on facebook that at least with an American company you do have some legal recourse. However this is a British problem and ultimately will be solved by the good people of GB. You have some wonderful British songwriters, get busy in song also. Me I am done with my comments since I cannot do anything to help you other than suggest using the American courts if you were slandered by an American company (facebook) likewise I do think you need to target the web with your information on the group. Top position in UK Google doesn't hurt at all since far more people are on the web vs mudcat. Also their are political forums that you should be visiting and putting the word out. Lots of newgroups on British politics also. Good luck and god speed to you

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:13 PM

well said lox!!

what i meant last post is that if others were to concentrate on the things that are wrong in their own areas of the world we could tackle these problems in a much bigger way, and that i think, is what sorcha was saying too.


take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:22 PM

Yeah, those damned colonials are getting uppity again, sticking their noses in the motherland's business - still haven't learned the art of being seen and not heard.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:28 PM

"I think we have to make allowances Lox, Bruce tends to enjoy a nightcap or two around this time ;)"
- GUEST,Sam

Damn I have something on the bottom of my shoe that needs scrapping off...yech...!!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
(uppity "Indian")

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:32 PM

That, Madame 'Sam' I think you LIE about. You are nothing but a 'ghost' and not worth my time. Boring....So, go 'clone' me...and I'll report it. SORCHA is NOT a BNP supporter in any way.


Get a LIFE Shelly.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:37 PM

Sorrreee.....Shelley Rose....http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000137986609


THAT is our lovely guest Sam. Trust me.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:39 PM

When it comes to the slimy opportunism of the right however, and their snivelling attempts to take advantage of the situation, I am quite willing to take the time to let them know that their attempts to ingratiate themselves with me are utterly pointless.


Sorry Sam but you'll have to buy your own.


OldDude, your information and advice iis extremely useful and helpful. I hope you do not hesitate to contribute further if and when you have something you wish to add.


Bobad, I suggest you learn to read critically (that means so that you understand the meaning of the sentences people have written) and in context (that means reading all the posts and not selecting just one or two) before you comment.


To the rest of the Cat and to "peace", I'm sorry for the severity of my words, it was in the heat of the moment and a personal matter though I don't think I could have approached it any other way.

Take care folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 06:14 PM

""For one thing, Bruce...it's an ENGLISH PROBLEM. You are NOT English. Why not fight wars in YOUR home country for the issues there?""


It is true however, that Peace is one of those most persistently impersonated by the BNP drones on Farcebook. It seems that the BNP haven't noticed he's a "danged furriner", and in their not unusual sublime ignorance, continue to MAKE it his business.

Peace doesn't always pick up on ALL the subtleties of British English, and as a result, sometimes gets the wrong end of the stick, misunderstanding what exactly is meant, but, after several years of correspondence, I assure you his heart is in the right place.

It takes all sorts to make a Mudcat.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 06:32 PM

Sam or whatever its name is, is still too cowardly to sign on to Mudcat, as a member, so therefore anything it says really has no credibility at all. Aminor talent for cutting and pasting articles is about all it has going for it.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 06:47 PM

Oh, I'm SURE 'she' has a Mudcat Member 'friend'. NOT all just 'her'

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:32 PM

""Well Don, that is one way to dress over it.""

When I WANT your opinion, I'll help you to figure out what it is. Till then, P**s Off!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:47 PM

However the legal action is already being criticized by a Daily Telegraph journalist Gerald Warner lauded for his criticism of Obama by Michael Savage (who has been placed on a list of people banned from entering the UK) on his radio show

He's working for them now? Warner used to be the Scotsman's pet right-wing loony, writing Catholic-fascist pieces in praise of General Franco. If he still lives in Edinburgh, I note that there is only one G Warner listed as living in the city, and the address fits a person like that, though I'd kinda expect him to be ex-directory.

Warner's other thing was frothing-at-the-mouth homophobia. The local gay press referred to him as "Geraldine". I could ask what they knew about him.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:56 PM

same bloke Jack!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:29 PM

Regarding the criticism of Peace's involvement here, I would respectfully suggest that we should be united in our stand against the filth of fascism, rather than bickering over who has more right to be offended by it. Peace has every right to protest as a member of this forum and one who has been maligned. It doesn't matter where anyone comes from; the whole planet needs to be rid of nationalism, fascism, and the type of mindless political ideals driving the likes of the BNP. It's not a British problem, it's a global one, and always has been. The BNP is just one (pathetic, in my opinion) symptom of a far greater disease. I hope the proposed legal action through the U.S. courts is a resounding success.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:40 PM

i have no idea on what thread i regarded the troll as being just a wind up merchants. i do believe that they started out that way but the baton seems to have been passed to shelley, aka sam who is a true member of the BNP.

for my instant dismissals of this..    I AM SORRY.

this is an article on shelley.

http://threecountiesunity.blogspot.com/2009/05/shelley-rose-bnp-candidate-for.htm

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:05 PM

Try this link for Shelley Rose

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:09 PM

As another North American who is a member of Folk Against Fascism, I co-sign what Smokey wrote on 26 Aug 09 - 08:29 PM.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:22 PM

In a heart there can be no room for love and for hate. Hate always wins always wins. Until it consumes and leave nothing left but an empty shell of a person. A beautiful young girl with your whole life ahead of you, I can only ask why ... what would bring you to hating others so. It is wrong ... so very wrong .. and your whole life ahead of you ...
I can only ask God to show you what is really important in this life. You see every one of us is in this thing together, no matter our color or our race ... you make me want to cry actually

I am so sorry for you young lady ... you deserve better in this life than to live it with fear and hate ... it is not too late to change, the nice thing about living is you can make mistakes and correct them. please stop before it consumes you and everything you care about.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 10:27 PM

thanks BOBAD. i still haven't got how to do them.

nice words dan, we can but hope.

why is it that you are so scared of some people that you hate them so much shelley?
who has taught you to fear change instead of embrassing it?

my last question is, why do you blame minorities for every problem you see in the world?

sweet dreams all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:07 PM

They are using you Shelly, they will tell you it is for the good of your country, they will use the love you have for your country to advance their own agenda, for their own greed their own power. Then you wake up and look at yourself in the mirror and no longer know who that person is any more. That is what hate does, it takes away everything you love everything you care about and pretty soon it leaves you alone with only the hate. You make me cry, you can stand up and say I am not going to live my life this way any more. You can change it but that decision is your and yours alone. You don't know me but this is perhaps the most important few lines you will ever read. It always ends bad young lady ... you have your whole life waiting for you ... you can change your country and you can change the world one person at a time, but you can do it in a manner that will make yourself and others proud to know you can call you their friend. These people are not your friends .. they care nothing about you ... only want to use you. Stop it please, I have seen it a thousand times before with gangs and there is no difference here, none. Don't throw away your life for this, you are worth so much more.

In my prayers
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 12:25 AM

And I listened to your music on youtube, there is talent there, you could do something with it. You are surrounded by a sea of world class songwriters and musicians that would help you grow as a musician. But young lady you are letting these people sell you a bill of hate and take away everything that you could become. You could make music that could move people, write songs that would make people happy and smile in this life. But you choose to hang out with these people who only want to destroy you. Hate ends badly little girl ... always .. you cannot go after others without losing a part of yourself and your soul in the process. Just take a time out and listen to people much older and have walked many more miles of life than you have ... There is a whole lot more in this life than blaming others for the way the world is. You see they are not the problem, it is these people who sell you this line of hate that is the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 12:48 AM

I know you think you have it all figured out, At your age we all did, thought we had life all figured out also. But I can tell you that most of us have socks older than you ... and we still haven't figured out life. But what we have figured out is right and wrong. You are letting these SOB's rob you of your before you even have it started. Walk away Shelley, do your music, find your friends and walk away from this ... it only ends bad ...

I done with my rant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:26 AM

LOL! Shelley Rose – another hilarious BNP joke. The photograph sums it up – a vacant-looking girl clinging on to a sweaty, slobbering fat git on one side and on the other side to an ugly little self-confessed Nazi who, despite describing gay people as "aids monkeys", "bum bandits" and "faggots", once asked a male journalist if the camera crew that was filming him would like to film him naked.

The funniest part is that these people actually have delusions of adequacy. You couldn't make it up!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 06:22 AM

Shelley Rose has 115 'friends' on Facebook including many known BNP activists like David Exley, David Hannam, Mark Collett, Mark Walker, Simon Darby and Joey Smith from Great White Shark records etc...

Thanks for the list Shelley - it's good to know which other, not quite so 'public' people, on Facebook to watch out for.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 06:32 AM

I made one big mistake in a previous post which was to imply that Bruce is not sincere.

I don't agree with his methods, and I don't like his aggression, but I do not doubt that he feels very strongly on these issues too.

I believe that he would not have been cloned if he had not been so easy to provoke and his sensitivity and readiness to anger are exactly what inspired the BNP to clone him etc.

I believe that we will see him on here again stronger than ever and that he will add to the many useful funny and interesting posts that in fact constitute the majority of his contributions.


Take care folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 08:35 AM

If you think you can defeat hate with insults or other words of hate you have already lost this battle. Countering hate with hate is like dumping gas on a fire. Now these are your children, your young people. They have become victims of some very clever very evil adults who have sold them a message that is completely wrong for their own power and greed. Now ask yourself how do you counter this. Not with insults, they will dig their heels in an say see our leaders were right. You counter it by showing them the lie that has been sold to them with understand, compassion and discipline.

Most of you are old enough to know that. These young people are little more than children. The leaders of this movement know exactly what to say exactly how to reel them in, little by little until they are trapped. You better figure out what you can do to offset this message and prove to them how wrong it really is. Insults and hate only reaffirms the message they have already been sold. Your young people, your children who have been brought into this are not evil, they are confused, they are being used and manipulated. Unless you understand that you will accomplish nothing and will play right into the hands of those who would steal your children from you. That is exactly what they are doing. Your children in this movement are victims, now stop your insults and figure out what message you will tell you children so they understand how wrong this is

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 09:41 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam - PM
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 09:34 AM

Joe Offer made it VERY CLEAR there would only be ONE BNP thread on mudcat, currently there are THREE (including Richard's ego driven paraniod one). Would someone please remove two as Joe requested.

Thank you

What's the matter, dearie, feeling a wee bit insecure, are we, with all the justified attacks on your racist, anti-semetic, homophobic friends?
Well, you know what? That's just TOO bad, if you don't like it, go away!

Stand and Be Counted!
Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
Uppity "Indian"

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:07 AM

Olddude, we're not dealing with children here; we're talking of adults who, as they are over the age of 18, are entitled to vote. My experience has been that by the time people have reached this age they have formed opinions of their own, no matter how misguided these may appear to others.

I believe that we need to show them that, as fascists and Nazis, they will be ostracised, isolated, ridiculed and excluded from the society of civilised people. Instead, they will have, as their companions, a bunch of unintelligent, unattractive and ignorant outsiders who suffer from a range of mental and social disorders. They will be judged by the company they keep and, if they sleep with pigs, they're going to wake up stinking of shit.

Time, hopefully, will show them how misguided they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Billy Suggers
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:09 AM

Your appeals might carry a tad more weight if you actually joined, Sam.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:11 AM

My gosh how awful. You have a 21 year old child who some very evil people took away from you and this is all you have to say to her

don't listen then to any reason, just go ahead and keep shouting ... and when nothing changes and you lose more and more of your kids then you can look at yourself also

I done with this thread for sure. Good luck to you, I can see you already have all the answers

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:22 AM

"Billy, these were Joe's rules, not mine. I imagine it will be dealt with shortly."
- Shelly Rose aka GUEST,Sam

You can only wish...by the way nice bottle blonde job, Shelly, my compliments to your hair dresser*LOL*

and this fron Shelly Rose, just to show what "charming" person she REALLY is.

On 27th November 2008 Rose – worker at a Luton furniture company - showed that she was capable of spreading similar lies. On Facebook, when describing why she was boycotting Tescos (once owned by Jewish people) she said:

"They want to take over the world, all the other shops even supermarkets seem to have some regard for local produce and the country. Tesco's are on their own agenda. They will destroy all business around them, unless people refuse to shop there. I would rather put myself out and pay a bit more at a smaller local shop, than line the pockets of the *KIKES* that run Tesco."
Three Counties Unity

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
Uppity "Indian"

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:38 AM

Critism of Tesco is one thing. I don't approve of their corporate behaviour, but then going further to attack the race/religion 'owners' is rascism.

Oh, by the way, Tesco is a Public Limited Company, i.e. the shares dealt openly on the stock market. That means that the directors represent the share owners. Do you know the race and religion of every shareholder?????

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:43 AM

"You have a 21 year old child who some very evil people took away from you and this is all you have to say to her "

You're forgetting about upbringing and values instilled in your children, and what they have learned from your actions and values during their formative years. I've brought up 3 children and have a fourth who is well on the way to adulthood. They may not all hold exactly the same opinions as me, but none of them are Nazis.

No need to get uppity because I have a different opinion to you - it's just a different way of dealing with the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 11:00 AM

Shelly read what I wrote and then read it again. This is not what God wants for you nor your country wants for you. He gave you a gift of music, you have the ability to use that to make life a better place but people you choose to be with in life will either make you a better person and the world a better place or will take you to a dark place you never thought you would be. The choice is entirely up to you.

I pray you make the right one. There are people that will help you get out of the place you are at now and will help you with your music. Again the choice is yours

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 11:01 AM

from the past elections

Central Beds Results - Northfields
Northfields


ROSE, Shelley Brtish National Party - British Workers First 348

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 02:10 PM

Impersonating musicians must be a real vote winner - possibly even more effective than the ritual burning of cuddly toys. I'm surprised the major parties haven't had the intelligence to use such subtly elegant tactics to persuade the electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 02:13 PM

"Impersonating musicians must be a real vote winner - possibly even more effective than the ritual burning of cuddly toys. I'm surprised the major parties haven't had the intelligence to use such subtly elegant tactics to persuade the electorate"
- Smokey

Don't give the majors any ideas, they get enough of their own already!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
Uppity "Indian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 02:17 PM

It was mentioned on another thread, it is an important question: why do some people believe "Sam" is "Shelley Rose"? Only it seemed to emerge from nowhere and now folks are getting a bit carried away with things generally, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 02:38 PM

why do some people believe "Sam" is "Shelley Rose"?

Good question, but personally I don't care who it is so much as what.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 03:18 PM

"why do some people believe "Sam" is "Shelley Rose"?"
-Royston
The answer to that question lies somehere in this thread or in
This One , I believe.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 03:51 PM

royston,
we all think that sam hudson is actually shelly rose because of this.

http://threecountiesunity.blogspot.com/2009/05/shelley-rose-bnp-candidate-for.html

to this.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000137986609

and this person looks extremly similar, see what you think.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000128680678&v=wall&viewas=1713687329

you can see all wall posts and photos on the last profile i have given.
it would be an extreme coinidence if they are not the same person!

take care all

jade x x x x

ps. this is not a thread drift, just answering a question.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:13 PM

This is her too.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:15 PM

Thanks Jeddy, I'm not on facebook (and never will be) so I can't see things like 'walls' but I have to say I don't see a resemblance betweeen Shelley Rose (unity picture and FB profile) and the main profile pic for Sam Hudson. I always though the Hudsons were the BNP Hudsons of Burnley. I'm not overly interested; one fascist is pretty much the same as another IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:22 PM

This is her too.
- Smokey

Is Shelley Rose that stupid that she isn't aware of Martyn Joseph's politics and his ethnic background, and yet she sings one of his songs? I had to give my head a shake and watch that youtube video again....

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
Uppity "Indian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 06:01 PM

How clever does one have to be to be a BNP candidate?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 06:47 PM

Well, judging by the ones we've seen parading up and down the Mudcat boardwalk, it probably helps to be from the shallower end of the gene pool.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 08:20 PM

Joe, there are currently three BNP threads up here at present, two below the line and one above (Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth has turned into another). If you read the comments (today) you will see that the troll that arrived here last month is stirring the pot on all of them.

Please keep to your word and place a limit of only one at a time. You do recall saying that ?

Thanks

Sam

---

Sam, you are not a registered or identified member of Mudcat, and you have no status here. You are not welcome here - you are merely tolerated, and you are being closely watched. We do not allow discussion of Mudcat editing policy in threads, and you have violated that prohibition several times today. If you wish to discuss Mudcat editing, contact me by e-mail, [e-mail].
What I said was that we would allow one thread discussing the BNP to be active at a time. However, we will also allow separate threads for events, such as the two other threads currently active which discuss activities of the Folk Against Fascism. As has been recognized by some posters, the discussion is curtailed when it moves away from discussion of the event.
But that is of no concern to you, since you are merely a guest here, and you have not even done us the courtesy of telling us who you really are.
The rest of you - please carry on with the discussion. Sam's query has been answered, and that's the end of it.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 03:13 AM

Thanks, Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:47 AM

BNP, the "champions of democracy" and the "decent English way of life (read white way of life) are ever the ones who want to stifle debate when it doesn't support their racist, anti-semetic, homophobic agenda.

Thanks Joe for issuing the warning.

Stand and Be Counted!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
Uppity "Indian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 10:20 AM

Thank you, Joe.

Mind you, Peace's (hi, buddy ! - right on !) comment 'fuck off, Sam', is echoed by me.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 10:26 AM

P.S. - Sam - get back under your rickety-rackety bridge, before I fetch Great Big Billy Goat Gruff to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 10:31 AM

"How clever does one have to be to be a BNP candidate?"
- Smokey

Having one brain cell is to be over qualified for the job, at least that's how my other half always puts it whenever someone does a REALLY stupid thing.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
uppity "Indian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 12:09 PM

Interestingly, "Sam" is (on the FaF@Sidders thread, I think) now claiming to be former mudcat member "Sam Hudson" (who posted in 1997 about Altan, and 1998 seeking the words to "Close the Coalhouse Door (by Alex Glasgow and part of the Little Red Songbook)) and alleging he has lost his cookie and password and would like them back. The more I think about this the less I find it convincing.

If, for modding reasons, this post should be elsewhere, I am content if it is moved.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 12:34 PM

Richard,
this is simply a disinformation attempt to discredit the FaF and me by the BNP/Sam/Chris/Shelley/him/her/it. The creature can't get anyone to believe its lies so resorts to divide and conquer tactics, I've seen this before during my participation in other anti-racist activities, but as Joe has stated, quite clearly,
"Sam, you are not a registered or identified member of Mudcat, and you have no status here" and still Sam/Chris/Shelley/him/her/it refuses to sign on to Mudcat, instead using a sorry excuse about being cookieless and a lost password.

To quote Peace, and, honest I have tried to be polite, up to this moment*LOL* 'fuck off, Sam' (sorry Joe)

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
uppity "Indian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 03:25 PM

Well, not quite so vehemently, I think Sam's story unlikely, but the fact remains there was a member here with the handle Sam Hudson.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 03:39 PM

Richard,
I've no doubt, at all, that somewhere out there the original member Sam Hudson lives, but I don't think that this is the same person. Our 'friend' 'Sam', as part of his/her/its misinformation campaign has hi-jacked Sam Hudson's name for his/her/its own disgusting use.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
uppity "Indian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 04:22 PM

Pointless giving an attention junkie what they want.

An attention junkie typically indicates Narcissistic personality disorder . A person with this type of disorder will never be able to have empathy for another human being.

Stop directly addressing the troll. Stop referring to the troll. That is just feeding the disease.

Talk about the topic the OP started please.

I am jumping for joy that legislation will make the BNP constitution illegal.

And I think the idea of infiltration and coup staging is bloody brilliant though likely untenable.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 04:24 PM

I'm inclined to agree with you 'Ollie', and Royston too. It's just some 'floating turd' trying hard to wind us all up by 1) Quoting one hell of load of bollocks. 2) Putting up profiles all over the place and trying to wind us up with them. Well here's one proud human being who couldn't care the less what the stupid prick wants to do. I'll never let cyber bullies worry me in the slightest. I expect that tomorrow some sort of message about me will appear somewhere in the ether and will be circulating amongst the 'so called' friends, some of who will I expect threaten me. I won't know, because I won't be looking. They don't know me, and I don't care. Me worried? Never.

I STAND UP, AND I WILL BE COUNTED. BOLLOCKS TO ALL FASCISTS

John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 04:47 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam - PM
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:02 PM

Indeed Sorcha, or if memory serves me correctly I should call you Aine ! "


!! AINE???? Hardly! ROF.....I am a LONG way from where she is. Try harder.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 04:54 PM

Guest, Sam is a piss poor liar. She's beneath pig shit, and that's pretty low down.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 04:57 PM

Bruce, you DO know you are back there, as Mad Murdoch? And they are dissing one of your songs.....says it was played during Gitmo torture interrogations....

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 04:57 PM

PS--YOUR pic too

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:23 PM

This beyond just pissing about now, beyond a simple troll at work, I do believe the harassment has been cranked up a couple of notches, it's time to get serious here. Never mind excusing the Sam/Chris/Shelley/him/her/its behaviour as...what was that....? Oh yeah...."Narcissistic personality disorder"(sounds like an excuse for doing nothing to me)
It's a war and it will be fought on many fronts. Sounds melodramatic to you? Maybe it is, but it is reality. There is no excuse for fascism, racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, and currently, anti-Islamic activities, and there's no excuse for sitting back and doing nothing. That happened in 1938, it was called appeasment. Most people thought that the man with the funny Charlie Chaplin moustache didn't have to be taken seriously, look what happened! Oh and one small thing, Hitler too was elected democratically.

Stand and be Counted! (or get out of the way)

Charlotte Olivia Robertson
(very) uppity "Indian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:27 PM

Thanks, Sorcha. Whetever the BNP does does not surprise me. When we have a case we'll find out who they all are. Since I am not on Facebook, it matters little to me. We now have them 'infiltrated' and we'll be able to demand isps real soon. Then they go down.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:29 PM

I'm standing. Ta Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:29 PM

".....says it was played during Gitmo torture interrogations.... "

That's from a guy who posted before on Youtube. He has since left Mudcat. Him I know about, and when I get to England he and I will talk.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:30 PM

I'm staying off facebook, for now, for much the same reasons as Bruce. We'll get the evidence required to take a certain individual to court.

Stand and Be Counted!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
(very) uppity "Indian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:36 PM

There's nothing worse than a short person with something to prove.

Stand and Be Counted! (massive thanks to Barden and Sorcha)

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (4' 11" tall)
(very) uppity Indian chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:38 PM

LOL! Banty Chicken Complex!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:40 PM

Sorcha: for all our ups and downs over the years, you're still one of the people here I really like. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:47 PM

goddammit

I am not in anyway minimalising what the sam /shelly person has been purportedly doing.

Just saying this thread has gotten dragged off the topic and is focussing on one person rather than the entire group and the impending and well deserved problems it is about to encounter.

Signed - proud to be an American living in England and standing up, sitting down, hanging from my toes and balancing on my elbows, whatever it takes the disrupt the Brain Numbed Putzes.

Tamara

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 05:57 PM

Oh - it's coming their way Tam, have no doubt.

I'M STANDING, I'M BEING COUNTED

John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 07:19 PM

"standing up, sitting down, hanging from my toes and balancing on my elbows,"



hahahahahahahahaha



Awesome!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 07:46 PM

Part of me wants racists posts to be deleted and the other part of me wants those posts to remain on threads so everyone can see how racist some folks are.

For instance, GUEST,BNP 4 LIFE, BETTER YET NF FOR LIFE!!! - PM
28 Aug 09 - 07:30 PM's profanity filled post in which he or she writes that "youre so far up the pakis arses your the same colour as them, think of all the white war veterans who fort the war to save this contry from being invaded, and then the guv does it volentary."

**

I hope that post isn't deleted because all those folks who voted for the BNP Nazis who say that that "party" isn't racist need to read that piece of garbage.

**

I'm glad that the British have filed legal action against the BNP. And glad that it sounds like Bruce, and Richard, and other Mudcat members will be filing legal action against those who are harassing them and misrepresenting them on Facebook and other so-called social networking sites.

---

As usual, you are requested not to respond to trolls, especially anonymous ones.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 07:48 PM

I see that that post I referenced was quickly deleted.

Because of the reasons I gave, I hope that my post that quotes part of that message isn't also deleted.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 07:59 PM

I agree with you Azizi, it's foul and offensive but really demonstrates what kind of people they are if anyone remains in any doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:00 PM

Azizi, that post you quoted is despicable, but it's what we've come to expect from the BNP and their posters here. I am most shocked at the language.

The poster wrote '"youre so far up the pakis arses your the same colour as them, think of all the white war veterans who fort the war to save this contry from being invaded, and then the guv does it volentary."'

I wouldn't know where to start doing corrections on that.

We have come to expect racism from the BNP and rants from drunks--which so many of them appear to be. OK, that stuff I understand. But the English itself is horrible. GET AN EDITOR. YOU NEED IT. After you sober up, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:32 PM

"youre so far up the pakis arses your the same colour as them, think of all the white war veterans who fort the war to save this contry from being invaded, and then the guv does it volentary."

It's a masterpiece; they should use it for their election slogan. It's a tough old world when a writer of such unparalleled skill is obliged to remain anonymous when fame is so richly deserved.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:35 PM

LOLOLOL

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:37 PM

And that's the last racist post I ever delete here.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:42 PM

"And that's the last racist post I ever delete here."

Some will like that and others won't, and vice-versa.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:46 PM

"think of all the white war veterans who fort the war to save this contry from being invaded, and then the guv does it volentary."

I know this won't be a popular post.

But what upsets me most strongly about this post, is that the poster is so badly educated.
How can any Democracy function effectively when members have no education?

How can any BNP supporter really be criticised if THIS is the degree of education of the membership. No Irony here please (I grew up in a council estate myself, albeit with a Mother who cared). I am in earnest.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:59 PM

Crow Sister: I assume "council estate" is perhaps what here would be called 'the other side of the tracks' (which is where I grew up)--with grandparents and a mom who cared.

I agree that the obvious answer is that the poster is poorly educated, or very drunk, or both. But that doesn't excuse racist claptrap. Being 'stupid' because of early conditions in one's life I can understand. Staying stupid is another animal completely. Being both stupid and hate-filled is, imo, a personal choice the fellow made. I expect he had guidance from his Nazi friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:08 PM

He was clever enough to operate a computer..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:14 PM

"He was clever enough to operate a computer.. "

So is this guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:17 PM

I used to be in a band with him back in the 70s.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:21 PM

That's Chongo. He's an exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:27 PM

Hey Peace,

well I was a bit drunk and daft earlier, I do that sometimes on forums (fora?) but it makes me really upset to think of entire generations who can't spell as well as I did at five years of age, also filled with such hate and bile. In my head, somehow there is a connexion.

I hate the alienating pedantry that can come from some Mudcat members (including my friends) when a fellow poster as much as dots an I in the wrong place, so I find myself at odds somewhat in the matter, and yet it is clear to me, that much racism is expressed in an ugly, inarticulate, and uneducated manner.

Does this suppose, that better expressed racism is somehow preferred?

No, but it does at least (IMO) at least offer a guide to the source.
The working class in the UK are no longer a proud race, Thatcher saw to that, she divided and conquered, and the 'remainder' no longer feel 'worth' shit. So I guess they feel they need to blame someone for their worthlessness. The Mail have been working at helping them find a scapegoat for decades. And it's a brown and nameless scapegoat, like it always has been..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:41 PM

I agree with you. However, it's obvious--at least to me--that the guy was loaded.

Racism isn't the domain of just poorly educated people. I've met university profs who argue in defence of 'apartness' of races; argued from anthropological viewpoints that this race is not as adept as that race at whatever.

I am aware that England and Wales' educational system has taken a fast ride downhill. It's happening also in NZ, Canada and the USA. I grew up 'learning' and institutional dislike of French speakers. We formed gangs to 'keep ourselves safe'. It was all crap. Took me years to figure that out, but eventually I did. People like those the BNP send here are drunks, reprobates, sexually disfunctional folks who need to dislike someone because they dislike themselves so much. Witness 'Sam' for messed up thinking--he's really a she, but she seems to get her jollies by being thought of as a guy. Whew!

I do not think that better writing would have made that poor person's thoughts any better. BUT, they would have been easier to read.

My grandfather had a grade 3 education. He harboured no ill-will to people of any race or language or creedo, etc. Lack of education does not mean we should accept sloppy thinking from people. Had the poster NOT been a piece of shit as a thinker, I would never have mentioned his writing. Just so you understand that.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:53 PM

Why are you (the collective "you") assuming that ignorant, foul mouthed*, racist poster was a male?

* I didn't quote the entire comment. It was foul.

**

Jeri, I understand the impulse to delete such filth. However, I'm glad that my partial quote of that post wasn't deleted since it shows the racism and ignorance of that BNP member.

And, from other posts I've seen on this forum, that racism, vulgarity, and uneducated writing style is the norm for BNPers.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 10:00 PM

That's Chongo. He's an exception.

Sorry, they all look alike to me..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 05:32 AM

uneducated doesn't always mean thick. i have no qualifications and got very bored at school, because it seemed to me that they were turning me into a robot, not to question anything.

with regards to reading the offending filth, i think you lokk at the spelling too closely, i had no problem, because i was concentrating on the feel of it, not what was there. it was only when i reread it that i noticed the spelling, as you may have guessed i am not exactly in the position to comment as my spelling has become picked on, in a nice way.

the other worrying thing is that so many ppl use txt speak now, they r so used to it that they don't know how else to do it. am i the only 1 who finds this annoying?

i know we are not suppoessed to question the deleting policy here, but i can't help but think that these racist posts do more to show the dire need to fight them than it does to delete them, pretending that people like that don't exist.

maybe i just need to cut out sleep so i can see what everyone is talking about? NO, i would kill someone!!!! LOL

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 05:51 AM

Peace. "Racism isn't the domain of just poorly educated people. I've met university profs who argue in defence of 'apartness' of races; argued from anthropological viewpoints that this race is not as adept as that race at whatever."

Peace, I am a social anthropology graduate and the whole crux of social anthropolgy is that it is social culture which moulds different behaviour patterns among different so called human races, not genetically inherited racial characteristics.

I dare say there are anthropologists out there who are privately unable to reconcile their innate racism with the findings of hundreds of field workers. But if you know of any anthropologist who has publicly used the mass of evidence which social anthropology has accumulated, to argue that there are innate differences between different races, I'd be glad if you could tell me. I'd also be interested to see how he or she did it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 07:20 AM

The point was made that Democracy requires a basic minimum of education to function.

This is the key.

Humanity has evolved to a degree that it has developed systems of survival that don't require pillaging, murder, theft, rape, war etc for survival.

We in the west rely on two basic systems of organization within our society.

These exist to allow for the movement of resources and the protection of individuals.

Money and democracy.

There are many views on the best approach to economics and politics, but both arguments now exist within a basic framework of acceptable parameters.

In both areas there are those with extreme views, but more and more western society is tending towards a middle ground.

Those who are unable to function within the economic system fairly resort to theft etc.

Those who are unable to function within the current political parameters resort to wars, rioting, etc.

To be able to function within society, and for the current economic and political system to be able to function smoothly, people need to have a basic understanding of how both work and why they are the way they are.

Politiciaans often talk about the three "R"s, but equally important is an education in politics and economics.

The history andd evolution of political systems and the discussion of political ideas are neglected in our education systems as are the history ad development of our economic systems, and the discussion of different economic theories.

In most political and economic discussions that I participate in, in this forum and elsewhere, people, including myself, espouse ideas and viewpoints that we believe to be original, when in fact they are often just the half understood premisses of one out of many already established economic or political theories.


Most importantly of all however, This lack of education in this respect is deeply compounded by the fact that people are not even forming views based on correct information, but often on fabricated "facts" that they have gleaned from the official information organs in the media.


So if poor peoples political and economic education is based on information received from rags like the mail and the sun, how the hell are they meant to participate in their democracy in any meaningful way?


So when the BNP puts out lies and propaganda about minorities etc and in the proceess pres peoples buttons, how are those poor people meant to know that this infrmation is not true or that the BNP's ideology is reactionary and destructive to the institutions that are keeping us out of the jungle?


I've written this in an unclear way but hopefully the essence of my point is clear enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:25 AM

think of all the white war veterans who fort the war to save this contry from being invaded, and then the guv does it volentary.
-GUEST,BNP 4 LIFE, BETTER YET NF FOR LIFE!!!

Another reason not to delete racist posts is to keep up with how racists are coaching their rants. Sometimes it may be better to ignore what is written or said, but sometimes it might be a wiser course of action to know what they are saying so that you can easily refute it with facts.

Take for instance the above statement about the reasons why White veterans (from the UK, I presume) fought in the war (which I presume is World War 2). Besides the important fact that there is no way that of knowing the reasons why all White soldiers fought in that war, and besides anecdotal and other evidence for other reasons why White soldiers fought in that war, that statement has a faulty assumption that the only people who fought in that war in Great Britain were White people.

Even today, there may be some people who believe that. For those who may be receptive to reason, here's one website that refutes that pernicious lie with photographs from those times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/06/africa_africa0s_world_war_ii_veterans/html/1.stm

Here's a summary of that photographical exhibition:

"The African soldiers who fought for the British Empire in World War II are remembered in an exhibition at the Imperial War Museum North in Manchester, UK.

"This is the untold story of the forgotten heroes of the Commonwealth," says Zimbabwean artist Raphael Chikukwa, the curator of the exhibition."

-snip-

And this doesn't even address the African-American soldiers who fought in Great Britain and the rest of Europe during World War I (and World War II).

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:37 AM

The problem is that if people don't discredit off repeated false claims like that one, they may take root and come to be accepted as fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:42 AM

Two extracts from the BBC archives (WW2 memories - Black and Asian Involvement) used for teaching purposes

Experiences of a Black British Serviceman

"There was no military tradition in my family. I enlisted because of patriotism and adventure. The West Indies gave full support to the mother country, Great Britain, in her conflict with Germany. ...

In the RAF my unit picked up aircrews shot down or ditched at sea. ... We also laid flare paths for the flying boats to land or take off at night and transported aircrews and maintenance crews to planes. Our other jobs included refuelling, re-loading bombs and towing sea-planes to dry docks. ...

There was no official racial discrimination in the services, but seniority promotion for a black serviceman was rare, even if you were qualified to do the job. Excuses for non-promotion were always there, so you were simply allowed to carry on in the ranks, regardless of your ability. They didn't want black personnel in charge of white servicemen.

But we were treated very well by white civilians because they were aware that you had left your safe country to face danger and help them in their time of need. And white British servicemen, in my case, were fine. In the navy, on a small ship, you have to live close, so you automatically become a close unit - whether afloat or ashore; any difficulties that arise are quickly sorted out. In the RAF, again when on air-sea rescue duties, you are together as a crew. Most of the time, I was the only black, so no problem, but when I was on other duties and had to mix, there were some problems - mostly caused by stereotyping. People would say things like 'Because you're black you don't need to wash' and 'Where did you learn to speak English, if you live in trees?' At first I took offence, but after deep consideration I came to the conclusion that it was best for me to try and re-educate my colleagues, which I did. ...

I got along fine with the white Commonwealth personnel because apparently they had been warned not to compare West Indians with their native population. A few did step out of line, but were dealt with accordingly.
But I didn't get along with white American GIs. They were reluctant to accept the fact that the British black servicemen were a different race in social outlook.
Many of the white American GIs were from the southern states of America and, although they were in Europe (a very different social scene), they couldn't face the changes that took place. So we had open wars, especially in dance halls and various places of entertainment, with the local whites as back-up on our side"


The Dazzling Black American - a child's memory

"He leaned down from his jeep and scooped me up into the passenger seat and I was dazzled. Gleaming white smile, flashing brown eyes, shining brown skin and a beautiful uniform. He was the first American that I ever saw in real life. ...

We loved those first American soldiers and did not even think about colour except that they were black and we were white, a natural state of affairs. ... There was a lot of resentment and jealousy among the local men and British servicemen because the Yanks were more confident, had more money and were much smarter. ...

Later this became more vitriolic if it was a black American soldier. I am sure this charge was imported by the white Americans, willingly adopted by our people because it gave more spice to the tale, as well as the apparent need to always have a group on which resentment can be focused.
There was no resentment from us because the Americans were particularly kind to children. Where as most local adults had little or no time for children, there was always chewing gum, chocolate and friendliness from these attractive new friends.
They were certainly different if only because they were patient with the many children who appeared as soon as they drove their jeeps into Bluetts Road."

more memories

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:55 AM

I didn't see the posting from GUEST,BNP 4 LIFE, BETTER YET NF FOR LIFE!!! and presumably it has now been removed. Good!!! The couple of quotes from it above were enough turn my stomach.

Somebody should tell this crud, whoever he is, that there is a programme on BBC 1 next week called The Muslim Tommies. Here's the programme synopsis.

"Much has been made of the threat posed by Islamic fundamentalists to the security of Britain. But what is often forgotten is that Muslims have fought on behalf of Britain for hundreds of years; thousands have lost their lives in the process.
"Using simple reconstructions, this film gives voice to some of the Muslim soldiers who fought in the trenches of France during the First World War as part of the Indian Corps. Censors office reports from the time included many translated letters which document what life was like on the front line.
"The letters contain fascinating but often heart-breaking details about the religious practices, sense of identity, hopes, fears, injuries and brave actions of the soldiers from 1914 - 1918."

Yes, that's right. Muslims who fought and died for this country and whose descendants are now having their religion thrown back in their faces. What would they say now if they realised that a bunch of totalitarian hate filled Fascists are planning to take it over.

We're going to fight these bastards all the way down the line.

"Until not one Fascist is left on the earth." Ewan MacColl.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:13 AM

In all, 87,000 Indian soldiers were killed in WW2 according to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
Of the 5,500 Indian army deaths in Italy 122 were under the age of 18 and 90 of these were Muslim.
Among them were three 15-year-olds -- Amir Khan, from Attock, Gulab Khan, from Rawalpindi, and Mian Khan, from Kohat.

from

"Untold" story of WW2 stirs Muslim youth pride

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 11:03 AM

Here's a link to a recent Mudcat thread that is related to this subject:

thread.cfm?threadid=120026

WW2 made whites-only


**

If the legal action over the BNP membership goes forward & is successful, I would hope that "party" would have less money to spread the lie that only White soldiers fought for Britain in World War 2.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 11:44 AM

Thanks Lox, you put it well.

And Jade, thanks also. I agree (just reviewed my PM to you about it last night BTW, it made absolutely NO sense whatever - Gin addled!).

An *individual* not getting on well in formal education for personal reasons (I was close to falling out of it early on too), in no way demonstrates ignorance in that person (you express yourself with much intelligence and insight). My old Dad's spelling is utterly abysmal (he asks me how to spell one syllable words sometimes) and he HATED school, yet he became a designer and inventor.) but *entire communities* doing so, say's to me that something must surely be up there.

I've glanced over the boards of White Power type sites when people have linked them here, and virtually *none of them* have even a basic grasp of the English language. To learn and understand, we must be able to both reason adequately, and to communicate effectively. Spelling is merely one *superficial* indicator of those capacities, and not a foolproof one by any means, but neverthelss it can I think offer a very general guide to the level of education and therefore capacity for reasoning and understanding of people that get involved in racist type organisations.

Sadly IMO, bar the points previously elaborated by Lox, this also means that all the proofs and evidence that people post up here, to refute the claims that right wing media spout out, will fall on deaf ears if the education of those targeted implies that they will very likely be unable to engage with those materials in any meaningful way.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 12:59 PM

Nick Griffin has cynically sought to convince would be supporters that the party is no longer a racist organization and has even put his bodyguards, heavily tatooed with swastikas and 'Hitler' into smart suits.

Recently the psrty sought to disassociate themselves from Helen Forster convicted of intimidating an Asian mother and branded a 'BNP mum' by the media

"She was the lone adult urging the hate-filled kids - some only 10 - to shout abuse during the siege at the home of terrified Meherjan Miah, who had previously lodged a complaint to police about a racially-aggravated assault."

BNP mum Helen Forster led kids' race attack

In response, Paul Golding, councillor for the St Mary's ward of Swanley, made a video in which he claimed the reports were "outrageous lies".

The video was posted on the BNP website and YouTube. In it, Cllr Golding said Forster "is not a member of the British National Party and she never has been". He added: "I contacted our membership department and asked them to check all of our records going back many years and she is not on there whatsoever. I spoke to Andy McBride, the south east regional organiser, and he said that no-one in the whole region had ever heard of her."

Cllr Golding went to Forster's home in Park Place and interviewed her on her doorstep, and she too called the reports "lies". The 32-year-old said: "I was not a paid member, I was just a graphic designer. I produced leaflets."

However, a woman named Helen Colclough, of the same address as Helen Forster, was registered as a member and activist for the BNP. Last week a Kent Police spokeswoman confirmed that Helen Forster and Helen Colclough are, in fact, the same person.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 01:51 PM

BTW - this is the same Cllr Golding, who was elected in February, and, commenting on the video of the burning of a Gollywog at Codnor, said the views of the people involved in the mock trial were not 'representative of' the BNP.

He said: "If you subtract these morons from our 13,000 members it is something like 0.01 per cent of the party."

Despite claims that BNP members at the festival at Codnor gave Nazi-style salutes and shouted Sieg Heil, and music with racist lyrics supporting Hitler was played, Cllr Golding said he was at the festival but was not aware of the racist activity, and he says the party 'is not racist.'

Cllr Golding also says the BNP is for white British people, so there would be no reason for non-whites to join other than to cause trouble within the party.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 02:22 PM

"The problem is that if people don't discredit off repeated false claims like that one, they may take root and come to be accepted as fact."

This is the key to the anti BNP campaign - to expose lies and inform about the truth.


As for the BNP membership and the legal action, a simple argument against the BNP's view that anyone other than whites joining up would be to say that A British National Party should represent British Nationals.


Therefore, once they have removed their whites only policy, it should be the responsibility of every British National; White, Black, Brown, Liberal, Gay, Disabled etc to join and help shape its future.


I believe this is a realistic campaign to pursue and that with sufficient numbers it would be unstoppable. If the BNP membership is currently 30,000 then 100,000 antifascists from around the country would easily overwhelm and disenfranchise the Fascists from politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 02:30 PM

In my hurry I only half completed a senence in my previous post, so for those who are wondering what this meant:

"As for the BNP membership and the legal action, a simple argument against the BNP's view that anyone other than whites joining up would be to say that A British National Party should represent British Nationals."

It should have read:

>As for the BNP membership and the legal action, a simple argument against the BNP's view that anyone other than whites joining up must be a troublemaker would be to say that A British National Party should be comprised of British Nationals and should represent the interests of British Nationals.<

Just as the green party is comprised of those representing the interests of the environment, and the liberal party represents liberal views.

They would then be forced to form a party with an honest name to make their membership comply with their current set of criteria - something like the "whites only" party.

We could then point at them and laugh as they try to invent the wheel, discover fire and watch in wonder as aeroplanes fly overhead.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:25 PM

There is no correlation between political polarity and intelligence level. All forms of extremism are dangerous, and to me, equally undesirable. Unfortunately the 'centre' point of British politics has moved quite distinctly to the right over the last thirty years. That is the real problem, of which the illusory 'rise' of the BNP is a particularly ugly symptom. I'm old enough to remember when the 'extremist element' (to put it politely) seemed mostly to be left-wing supporters inadvertently giving socialism a bad name. These people don't really care what they are supporting, it's just attention-seeking 'gang' stuff. They are being manipulated, but isn't that what the game of politics is all about?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:28 PM

Oh no, they only join some gangs.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:38 PM

I'm not making excuses for them - just looking at the bigger picture. Or rambling like an old fart, depending on your point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 06:48 PM

"But if you know of any anthropologist who has publicly used the mass of evidence which social anthropology has accumulated, to argue that there are innate differences between different races, I'd be glad if you could tell me. I'd also be interested to see how he or she did it."

I don't think it was a social anthropologist, but I'll dig for it. Was a professor in California who argued that there WERE racial characteristics. I know he caused a stir at the time but the university had to keep him on. I'll get back to you. As a BTW, I had not meant to single out anthropologists. My apologies if you took it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:12 PM

Eysenck.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:41 PM

Wasn't he the IQ bloke? I think they straightened that business out with the Flynne effect didn't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:53 PM

There was also this guy Arthur Jensen at U Cal Berkley who was a proponent of race based differences in intelligence.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 11:07 PM

And along the same lines we have J. Philippe Rushton at the University of Western Ontario. Both he and Jensen received large grants from the Pioneer Fund,a U.S. non-profit foundation established in 1937 "to advance the scientific study of heredity and human differences."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 12:43 AM

I do not follow the argument that the Flynn effect resolved the difficulties about Eysenck's theories on racial intelligence. I am aware of some Flynn effect studies arguing a large increase in black intelligence, but the racist Jensen criticised them on at least superficially convincing grounds relating to the exclusion of data.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 01:33 AM

Maybe so Richard - I just dimly remembered reading something about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:17 AM

Emma B. "However, a woman named Helen Colclough, of the same address as Helen Forster, was registered as a member and activist for the BNP. Last week a Kent Police spokeswoman confirmed that Helen Forster and Helen Colclough are, in fact, the same person."

A lot of BNP members use false names. The fact that the BNP denied this person's membership, and appear not to have expelled her, shows the sort of scum we're dealing with.

Peace. "..... a professor in California who argued that there WERE racial characteristics."

A number of social psychologists, of whom Eysenck was probably the leader, have argued in favour of differing intelligence levels between different races. But of course social psychology and social anthropology are two contrasting disciplines.

I confess I know next to nothing about social psychology, so I can't comment on their methods or findings. However, I do recall that other social scientists were extremely sceptical, regarding the work of Eysenck and co. as biased and ethnocentric. EG., their use of "Western European" IQ tests on kids who didn't come from Western Europe.

Can anybody else throw some more light on this?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:28 AM

The "intelligence test" debate has been long and heated and continues. If it is going to be pursued on the 'cat it really needs a different thread. Plainly there are some obvious and inheritable racial differences - colour of skin for example (and I know a young woman who is insistent about another, and diligently continues to research it, for which I do not think any the less of her). The relative scholastic and entrepreneurial success rates (in the UK) demand some explanation. But some of the most intelligent, able and motivated academic students I ever met in the UK were Shell scholars from Nigeria.

The apparent prevalence of certain types of athletic success is difficult to study, not least because the tendency of the able to enter sport may be seen as a response to their exclusion on grounds of prejudice from other areas of endeavour.

But none of those things make the members of one race of less value as a person than those of another, and it seems most probable that cultural behaviour patterns are learned not inherited (and can therefore change).

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:46 AM

There's only one race - and that's Human.

John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:47 AM

Richard Bridge. "But none of those things make the members of one race of less value as a person than those of another..........."

Amen to the power of however many times you say that.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,hardy
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:47 PM

hey we dont need anybody to fight for our beilfs about other ethnic minorities we deserve to have our own opinion on people coming into our country and having there own laws and getting free houses etc... stealing our jobs is another issue we got to stop this from happening this wont happen in any of their countries so why does it have to be ours i just want the government to see this to show themselves what they are doing to our country its a disgrace and they need to give their heads a shake its down right dispicable.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:52 PM

GUEST,hardy: Did you lose your punctuation keys?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:52 PM

I guess that "Best of British" does not encompass the language arts.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:22 AM

Blimey, aren't these BNP supporters unbelievably bloody ignorant? Little wonder that they have such big chips on their shoulders when they can't spell and are barely coherent.
The good thing is that they're not going to make many converts when the man in the street can't even understand what theyr'e on about.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:40 AM

It may, I suppose, be interesting to enquire why Guest Hardy writes as poorly as he does, when, for example, my dentist (Sikh) succeeded in qualifying as a dentist, and her sister as a surgeon.

Should we suspect that Sikhs are genetically superior to the indigenous English (well, OK there are arguments over exactly who are or were the aboriginal people of England, and oddly many of the English nazis model some parts of their personae on the invading and conquering Germanic tribes)?

Hardy, your supposed facts have long been shown to be false.

The Talmudic (on the one hand) and Koranic (on the other hand) courts derive jurisdiction only by consent of the parties, although I personally believe that there should be something akin to the Unfair Contract Terms Act (or the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations) to regulate unjust procedures and outcomes otherwise contrary to the protective panoply of the law of the land. But by way of comparison there is a large body of ecclesiastical law that is indeed not a matter of consensual submission, but part of English law, and I sometimes wonder about that.

Nobody gets free houses. There is always rent, although it may be paid by benefits - the rules for which are the same for all. Immigrants do not automatically get to jump the queue. If their need criteria entitle them, then they get their entitlement (as does anyone else).

You cannot simultaneously say that the immigrants are taking "our" jobs and "sponging off benefits". If they are doing jobs then they are contributing to the economic wellbeing of the country (and paying taxes towards their infrastructure needs, like everyone else).

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:46 AM

Unfortunately the "man in the street" often believes in the same myths as the bozo below, unsurprisingly as they are assiduously peddled by the redtops. But just as the idiot is too lazy to spell or punctuate, he (or she) is too lazy to think.

- They have their own laws. No they don't.
- They get free houses. No they don't.
- They take our jobs. Guilty as charged. It was an illegal black smelly ragheaded immigrant who shut down the mines, dismantled our manufacturing industry, and collapsed the financial system, wasn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:59 AM

The problem is the BNP (under another manifestation, perhaps) will always be with us. The way to reduce their effect is not to attempt to ban them - a legal minefield which may well backfire - but to make them unneccesary. People turn to these groups when times get hard and they feel there is no one to represent them. Who have we got in 'official' politics: Pa Broon, who supports the bankers, abolished the 10p tax band etc etc, or Dave Snooty, who is quite unknown - and a Tory. To add to this, the recent expenses scandal has discredited politicians even further. So don't vote for the usual candidates but vote for someone who will look after the common man (and woman) and who knows the cause of all our problems: immigrants or some other minority group (not bankers, heavens no!) I understand Martin Bell (the Man in the White suit who isn't Alec Guiness) and Terry Waite are forming an 'honourable' political party to divert votes from the BNP; this would seem to be a way forward.
Intelligence tests have nothing do do with intelligence tests and only measure the ability to do intelligence tests. I remember questions like: 'tea is to leaves as coffee is to....'; in 40's Britain that measures social class. And 'Can a cat see in the dark; yes or no'. An 'intelligent' child would surely either say that's a silly questions or give the answer that would be considered wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 06:12 AM

GUEST Hardy. This has got to be a wind-up. Anyone as illiterate as that wouldn't be able to work out how to switch a computer on.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:13 AM

"Anyone as illiterate as that wouldn't be able to work out how to switch a computer on. "

Anyone as ignorant as that isn't even an animal - he/she is a plant.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:30 AM

I guess my Mauritian dentist took away "hardy"'s job in the dental profession.

The idea of "hardy" seeing to my teeth is giving me the cold shivers.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:35 AM

hardy - Noone would ever steal your job from my company - I wouldn't even dream of employing anyone as illiterate and ignorant as you in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:55 AM

Scary statstic from a few year back - More than 60% of SUN readers thought it was a Left Wing Newspaper !

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 10:43 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 10:44 AM

I've just found the following on the BNP's website. It's about a donation which a BNP member has made to the British Legion. Given that the BNP are the biggest collection of liars since Goebells, there is probably a lot more more to the story than this. Does anyone know any more?

British Legion Agrees to Take BNP Member's Money after All
August 30, 2009 by BNP News   
Filed under BNP Party News, Regional News
Leave a comment
The Royal British Legion has announced that it will accept money donated to it by a British National Party member's fundraising efforts after previously announcing to great media fanfare that it would not.

BNP Member Rachel Firth has spent 24 hours inside a cardboard box this weekend to highlight the plight of ex-service personnel who are forced to sleep rough.

By doing so, she has raised money which she will now divide equally between the BNP and the RBL.

Ms Firth told BNP News that she was happy to learn that the RBL had reversed their decision.

"My intention was never to make the BNP 'look good' on a sponsorship form next to the Royal British Legion. The BNP does not need a reason to look good," she said. "It does that all by itself.

"It is just that the two causes are close to my heart. My father and late grandfather both served their country.

"I have only been a member of the BNP for a few months now and have seen more honest, decent, caring folk in those few months than I have seen in my lifetime," Ms Firth said.

"This experience has given me more determination and courage to do all I can for the BNP," she concluded.

Earlier this month, the RBL said it would not accept the money because she planned to give half of it the BNP. However, the RBL announced late last week that its decision had been reversed.

A spokesman said the RBL had originally thought the donation was being made on a political basis — and the money could therefore not be accepted.

"The situation is different with Rachel," the RBL spokesman said. "She is an individual raising funds for her favoured causes and wants to split those funds between the causes. We have no problem with this," he said, adding that they had spoken to Ms Firth and explained the confusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 10:57 AM

Sorry about that, wrong key - please delete the above.
Leadfingers - it was! The Sun used to be the 'Daily Herald', a ( or the) Labour supporting paper before the Dirty Digger took it over. I don't suppose its readers had noticed! It's probably neither left nor right in the strict sense but more what we might call populist.
Left and right defies definition I always think and their extremes bend round to meet each other. A local factory recently made all their British workers redundant and then hired Polish workers at a lower hourly rate and with no or little industrial rights. The Poles were greatly resented; an attitude fueled by the Right although the British workers were naturally Left supporters. Were the British workers rascist? The Poles were a soft target, those who allowed this situation to develop were not. These paradoxes are brought out in some of Phil Och's songs as well as in the film 'Matewan', when the striking miners attack the Black and Italian 'scabs' who are brought in by the mine owners.
Doc John

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 11:57 AM

GUEST,hardy
Oh look another alias added to the long list*LOL* Yes Sam or whatever you're calling yourself this, I'm back, after a very constructive weekend at an anti-racist conference. It was realy rather enlightening and useful in the light of the problem with the BNP and it's lackies/toadies/hangers-on. Useful information copied to my laptop to be used once I return to England.

By the by, thanks to those who constructed the facebook profile, it was a riot to look at it, I' personally, not a member of facebook, but a friend is so I was able to view the hilarious efforts of those with waaaayyyyyy too much time on their hands. I do have one thing to say to you. GET A FRIGGEN JOB and stop living off the backs of the decent, hardworking folk out there!

Stand and Be Counted!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson
REALLY uppity "Inian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:10 PM

"- They take our jobs. Guilty as charged. It was an illegal black smelly ragheaded immigrant who shut down the mines, dismantled our manufacturing industry, and collapsed the financial system, wasn't it?"

Yes, anyone who bares the slightest grudge against migrant workers, would do well to consider this.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 02:50 PM

"It was an illegal black smelly ragheaded immigrant who shut down the mines, dismantled our manufacturing industry, and collapsed the financial system, wasn't it?"


Maggie Thatcher?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:09 PM

"Maggie Thatcher?"
-theleveller

I din't know Grantham was a foreign country...

I'll get my hat...

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 10:25 AM

Following the posting of the BNP membership list on the Internet last year, former member Matthew Single has been fined £200 at Nottingham Magistrates court, and ordered to pay £100 costs. Charges against his wife, Sadie Graham-Single were dropped.

The judge said: "It comes as no surprise to me that somebody to do with an organisation that prides itself on Britishness is in fact living off the British people on Job Seeker's Allowance and that is why the fine is so low as to be ridiculous."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:06 AM

Were those charges the Data Protection Act charges, or were they charges of benefit fraud?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:29 AM

Richard, they were Data Protection Act charges.

I have to say that, while the list has been extremely useful to those on our side, there can't be many bigger acts of skunkery than for someone to publish the personal details of all their former mates on the Internet purely because they fell out with the leadership.

"What's that slithering along on its belly?" Dunno, but it can't be a BNP member. They usually sink a lot lower than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:38 AM

"Richard, they were Data Protection Act charges"
- Owen Woodson

There's going to have to be an awful lot of people charged *LOL* I mean how many people have copied that list? I now I sent number of people a copy, plus I have a copy....It's just like those Ukranian dolls, you open one and there's another inside.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
lists of lists

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:52 PM

I wonder if Joe/clone could remove that Guest's post, it's serving no useful purpose other than to show the persons anti-Americanism

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
Canadian now resident in England

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:58 PM

Nice.
Did you study polotics?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:04 PM

We crossed there Ollie, sorry. I think it's important for any Americans reading to be able to fully appreciate the BNP's opinion of them though. They're only exercising their right to free speech after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:52 PM

Good shot Smokey!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 04:15 PM

As I've posted, else where, Smokey, racism is a world wide problem, the BNP and its Lakies/toadies/hangers on are but one symptom., so the more people from whichever nation or country you belong to, join in, the greater the unity against fascism.

Stand and be Counted!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
REALLY uppity "Indian" chick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:26 PM

Thanks Richard.

I agree Ollie. The interwebnet is global, the problem is global. The resistance should be global.

Let them meet a brick wall - it'll hurt them more than it hurts us. Those with the hearts will always have the music, and they can't take our hearts.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 05:52 AM

One final attempt to address the topic....

The BNP are off to court today to defend their white-only membership.

Some comment from Ian Dunt

"....... the BNP is based on a victim mentality, a wrong-headed reversal of objective truth, a world-view in which the most marginalised are presented as tyrannous oppressors. It is based on the myth that whites are now the most victimised group in the UK.

It would be difficult to get further away from the truth. The migrants who come to this country are among the weakest members of our community. They are used for cheap wages, distrusted by huge portions of the indigenous population and vilified by the media.

To pretend they are wielding power over the white working class is a laughable piece of fantasy.

Those at the top of the party understand this, of course.

They use it to fuel fear and distrust on our streets........."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 07:26 AM

I totally agree with everything Ian Dunt says here, especially when he argues that immigration enriches this country, rather than impoverishes it. That includes spiritually, culturally and economically.

And yes, immigrant workers should not be used to undercut the native labour force. Everybody on this planet should be able to settle and work on it anywhere they choose. But paying immigrants discriminatory wages and subjecting them to discriminatory working conditions benefits no-one but the fat cats of industry; the very people in fact who will end up backing the BNP when indigenous workers turn on them because of their employment policies.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 08:38 AM

It appears that the BNP turned up unprepared in court, so there has been an adjournment to I think Oct 16 - but the BNP will ahve to pay te Commission's costs of today. Har-de-har.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 09:52 AM

"Ian Dunt says here, especially when he argues that immigration enriches this country"

Ian Dunt is, of course, quite right, we immigrants do enrich your country, but then again I AM rather biased in that direction*LOL*

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
immigrant and damned proud of it!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:11 AM

Richard Bridge. "It appears that the BNP turned up unprepared in court, so there has been an adjournment to I think Oct 16 - but the BNP will ahve to pay te Commission's costs of today. Har-de-har."

Snap. Peter Tierney, a paid up BNP activist, and about as unpleasant an individual as you'd never wish to meet was up before the magistrates in August on a charge of assault. When the court convened, his solicitor asked for an adjournment because he hadn't had chance to study the CCTV footage. His case re-comes up tomorrow.

The BNP are having quite a time of it in the courts lately. Yesterday there was the conviction of ex-member Matthew Single, for leaking the membership list. Today the leadership is being prosecuted for its whites only membership rule. And tomorrow, as I said, there is the case of the said Mr Tierney.

Incidentally, having led a quiet law abiding life, I'm not entirely sure how to read this, but the creep wasn't just freed after he was charged. He was released on bail. Moreover, a condition of his bail was that he has to stay out of city centre where the attack took place. Also, on releasing him, the police hung onto his clothes (for forensic analysis presumably), and sent him home in a prisoner's uniform. Is this usual for the level of assault which would normally come up before a magistrates court ?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:39 AM

Just looking at the number of folk musicians that appeared in court during the 1960's & 70's for drug offences ! Does it go with the job ? Surely you can't say the use and abuse of illegal drugs by artists didn't happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:56 AM

Oh dear, another troll. And one whose head seems even further round the twist than usual. Two points.

1. This is totally unrelated to the topic under discussion.

2. Was drug taking any more prevalent among the folk revival then, than among other sections of society?

3.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:59 AM

3. I was just about to ask why am I wasting my time answering this when the page whizzed off into cyberspace.

Incidentally, does anybody know of any folk musician in this country who was prosecuted in the 1960s/70s for drug offences?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:07 PM

"Just looking at the number of folk musicians that appeared in court during the 1960's & 70's for drug offences ! Does it go with the job ? Surely you can't say the use and abuse of illegal drugs by artists didn't happen."
- GUEST,Helen B

I know you're a troll, Helen B, but I'd be interested in knowing your source for your totally outrageous remark (is there an internet list out there somewhere?), it is to the point of slander, which would have the BNP it's lackies/toadies/hangers on in court yet again.
You, GUEST,Helen B, hide behind GUEST because like all others who have entered in here to Mudcat using GUEST, are a coward, without the courage of any convictions (except for criminal, of course) whatsoever.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:56 PM

The legal case about ethnic restrictions on the British National Party's membership rules has, as posted earlier, been adjourned.

The case was adjourned to give the BNP more time to prepare a defence, after the court was told the party had only instructed its counsel, Jonathan O'Mahoney, at 5pm on Tuesday.
Mr O'Mahoney told the court that the BNP had appointed a new legal team in the past week after dispensing with the services of its original solicitors, who had advised it not to contest the case.


Judge Paul Collins said: "The Commission take the view that the terms on which the BNP admit persons to membership is in breach of the Race Relations Act because it discriminates against persons on the grounds of race and they want an injunction to stop it."

He pointed out that it had taken a "long time for someone to get round to the idea" that the BNP - which was founded 27 years ago - could be in breach of the Race Relations Act.
[Outside the court however, a spokesman for the EHRC said its predecessor organisation, the Commission for Racial Equality, did not have the powers to take such legal action and that the EHRC was set up only in October 2007.]

However, the judge also said the BNP had known since June about the possibility of legal action and said it was "unfair" of the party to have instructed Mr O'Mahoney at the last minute.

He therefore ordered the BNP to pay the costs of the hearing.!


More disturbingly the judge pointed out that the EHRC had not provided any evidence that there was "a long queue of black people wanting to join the BNP"

Stephen Tyler, the BNP Prospective Parliamentary Candidate for Bermondsey in south east London, who attended the hearing, said that the BNP had "a lot of supporters from ethnic minorities," adding: "They understand why the membership list is closed to them."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:05 PM

"a lot of supporters from ethnic minorities," adding: "They understand why the membership list is closed to them."
- Stephen Tyler, the BNP Prospective Parliamentary Candidate for Bermondsey

Oh what a fibber Tyler is! We (non-white immigrants) fully understand why membership is closed to us (not that I have any interst in joining, to put it mildly)it's because of the BNPs racist, homophobic, anti-Semetic, anti- Islamic (the list gets longer)stances. As for support from us ethnic minorities, that's got to be one of the funniest things I've ever heard, or it would be if it weren't a complete pack of lies.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white ethnic minority

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:23 PM

Just looking at the number of folk musicians that appeared in court during the 1960's & 70's for drug offences "Helen B"

Would these be violent, racist, or discriminatory drug offences?
No, I thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:32 PM

Just look at the number of BNPers that appeared in court during the last couple of days for various offences ! Does it go with the job ? Surely you can't say the use of violence, racism, anti-immigrant slander etc..etc.. didn't happen.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:58 PM

""Incidentally, does anybody know of any folk musician in this country who was prosecuted in the 1960s/70s for drug offences?""

A few folkies caught with the odd spliff, but not much else. Slap on the wrist territory.

The ones that were regularly getting done for the more dangerous stuff were rock, and pop, merchants in the main.

Unless of course you are dumb enough to classify "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds" as folk.

These Guest clones are sharing one brain cel, and THAT'S out at the laundry this week.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 02:12 PM

Unless of course you are dumb enough to classify "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds" as folk.

I've been known to churn out an instrumental acoustic guitar version.. I once announced it as "almost folk and almost Irish" without getting lynched.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 02:15 PM

Maybe some of these guys?

mudcat.org — British folk musicians are organising several events to show their support for the British National Party. Reclaim the British way of life. ...
digg.com/.../British_Folk_Musicians_support_the_British_National_Party -

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 02:20 PM

All self-respecting drug-fiends make sure that they've taken everything before the old bill arrive. It is a policy that has served me well over the years!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 02:23 PM

"mudcat.org — British folk musicians are organising several events to show their support for the British National Party. Reclaim the British way of life. ..."
-Emma B

where did you find this?

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 02:31 PM

Royston - everything?
I'm full of admiration.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 02:43 PM

Google, Charlotte.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 03:05 PM

Smokey,

At one infamous raid on a truly legendary Brixton dance venue many years ago, I did say in a very amiable tone and demeanour to the officer that was searching my pockets "Look at the state of me, I've obviously taken the lot, I've nothing to hide" To which he said "Yes, Sir, I'm sure you have" Then one of my friends, wobbling dangerously and trying hopelessly to talk in conspiratorial, hushed tones, beckoned the officer's attention and slurred "Don't you realise who he once was?", which I thought was priceless.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 03:11 PM

This is the link in question. It is a profoundly stupid strategy that will do the BNP more harm than good.

Nice one Royston :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 03:12 PM

"Google, Charlotte."
- Emma B

It tells me nothing, the DIGG link leads right back here, so thereforethe reference is somewhere on Mudcat.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 04:26 PM

Why waste time on that piece of trash? She's a troll. Forget she says anything and GUEST Helen'll crawl back under her rock.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 04:41 PM

I wonder if "Helen B" is the BNPer on fakebook Helen Butcher?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 04:45 PM

Oh, yes, I don't think Royston ever looked THAT like George Michael and in the days to which he refers he did folk, but was not really a "folkie".

Now I could name some of his contemporaries (but definitely not folkies) who would have had to burn the house down to destroy the evidence... one of them used to DJ under the original name of "the Funkmaster".

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 04:57 PM

"I wonder if "Helen B" is the BNPer on fakebook Helen Butcher?"
- Richard Bridge

well it's definitely not This Helen Butcher

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 06:24 PM

C'mon chaps - for every one illiterate post made by some BNP troll guest we get half a dozen kneejerk posts by well-meaning folk each trying to outdo the other in their right-on, anti-fascist credentials.
I do think that anyone coming to this thread and reading a page-worth of posts will be in no doubt that (a) the BNP are intellectually bankrupt and (b) most trad music fans don't like 'em.
Why not leave it at that. Otherwise you risk alienating the 'don't knows' and the undecideds who maybe don't fancy the BNP at the moment, but who will instinctively side with anyone who is subject to an hysterical sh!t-storm.
Give it a try. And if it gets to the point where there we are getting towards 50 consecutive posts by anonymous fascists capable of joined-up thinking, then by all means let rip. Until then, keep mum.
Of course, if a registered Mudcat member posts pro-BNP stuff, then there's room for fair comment. Somehow, though, I don't think BNP George will be waving her racist flag here for a while - she seems to be unable or unwilling to defend her fascist friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 06:31 PM

"Give it a try. And if it gets to the point where there we are getting towards 50 consecutive posts by anonymous fascists capable of joined-up thinking, then by all means let rip. Until then, keep mum"
- Gervase Webb

My oh my aren't we being the little dictator then? You'll forgive I'm sure if I personally respond with one word...no. This NOT your thread,although you do take a somewhat proprietory attitude, so again my answer to you is no!

Charlotte Olivia Roberts (Ms)
who speaks for herself and no one else

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: MBSGeorge
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 08:03 PM

Gervase stop targetting me please. I will not respond to your innane questions because you have stated that anything I do respond to will be copied and pasted into public from private messaging, whether I give my permission or not and your harassment of me here and on facebook is becoming rather obsessive.



For the record all those who have assumed that I had a platform during the elections you are wrong.

I was a 'paper candidate' I did not knock on any doors or give any speeches.

I am not well versed in politics and have not had to 'field' any questions.

I will not comment any further since this is supposed to be a thread about legal action.

MBS George

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 08:04 PM

"your harassment of me here and on facebook is becoming rather obsessive."

You haven't stopped your BNP friends from doing that though, have you. Fuck the rest, huh "George"?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 08:07 PM

gervase,
i don't agree with your treatment of george and others, although i understand your' frustrations. but in this instance you are quite right!
it is one thing not to let things go, but to jump on them so heavily might be doing more harm than good.

let them play their games and only respond when it gets to a certain level.
i will try to take my own advice, i might fail, but i will try.

i did have a question relating to the topic, but after catching up, i have forgotten it, so back i go until i remember, which might be a while, if i am too long, send a search party please?

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:41 AM

Inane? There were quite specific. I asked about the BNP's connections with racism, with the American far-right, with violence and criminality. I copied them to you on Facebook once, George. Now run along and carry on learning 'Tomorrow Belongs to Me," there's a good little fascist.
And, no, it's not 'my' thread, but do really we need a willy-waving competition to see who hates anonymous Nazis the most? If I were a BNP supporter I'd be tempted to pop in an inflammatory 'Guest' post every few days just to wind people up - since it clearly works.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:56 AM

"I will not comment any further"

Good. That's one nasty little fascist silenced. Next!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:19 AM

"I was a 'paper candidate' I did not knock on any doors or give any speeches.

I am not well versed in politics and have not had to 'field' any questions."


What would you have done if you had been elected?


"I am not well versed in politics"

But you were prepared to be a part of a decision making body that affects and changes peoples lives?

Big Risk don't you think?


And wohse views would you have represented?

yours? ... oh .... you imply that you don't really have any ...

The BNP's? ... well you stood on their ticket ...


Did you think you had no chance of winning?

Then why stand?



Your argument above is inconsistent.

At least be honest with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:15 AM

I think she is being honest! That's the problem!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:23 AM

BNP George is being honest. This is why observers of the British Nazi Party have always maintained that they must not be treated as other political parties are treated.

The true political objectives of the "elite" - famous racist neo-nazis like Griffin, Brons and interntional terrorists like Lambertus Nieuwhof - and their close associates are all too obvious. They remain obvious because Griffin runs over to the KKK in America to reassure them that he is only lying to the British Public when he says the party is not racist, and then gets video'd doing it. Twat.

Some BNP activists and candidates are just old-fashioned "send 'em 'ome" racists that are prepared to fall in with Nazi's to see the job done, and others are just Nazis themselves and revel in it.

Then there are a whole layer of pig-ignorant lackies such as George who allow their names to be used as electoral cannon fodder.

Joe - before you delete this post, think carefully. Someone just came on here and said that they stood for elected public office under the banner of a party whose policies they neither knew nor supported, moreover they claimed not to have any political beliefs at all and no idea what they might do or say once in office. I think the description "pig-ignorant lackie" is well earned.

The BNP does not have a body politic, it does not really have coherent policies or at least none of which they are prepared to speak truthfully. The BNP is a lurking Griffin / Brons dictatorship that seeks to use and subvert the democratic process for its totally undemocratic aims.

That is why Griffin needs to be egged and heckled and frustrated at every possible opportunity. He cannot be allowed the privileges of the democratic process.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,baldrick
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:33 AM

why   is Trevor Phillips of the "Equalities Commission" selectively pursuing legal action against the BNP for having a "British membership only" when there are other organizations within Britain that only allow black or Asian membership....in the interests of the "equality" that he espouses these should also face the same brand of legal action wouldn't you think??
these other organizations are....
Black Police Association
Black Londoners Forum
Black Information Link
Operation Black Vote
Muslim Council of Britain
Black Heritage Organization
The Voice - newspaper
Board Of Deputies of British Jews
Jewish Telegraph
The Black Police association
Black people's mental health association
Black and Asian therapists online
National BME mental health network
Federation of Black housing organizations
The Black Londoners forum
Positive action in Housing
Asianfaces.co.uk,Asian modeling service
Society of Black lawyers
Society of Asian lawyers
BlackLawyersDirectory.com
asianjobsite.co.uk
BlackandAsiangrad.ac.uk
Ethnic media Group
Al-Nisa Muslim Women's Group
Al-Nur Muslim Women's Association
Antrim Chinese Community Association
Barnardos Chinese Lay Health Project
Chinese Welfare Association
BlackBritain.co.uk
EthnicBritain.co.uk
Sussex Black police Association
The National Black Writers and Artist Association
Black students Association
UK Black teachers Association
Black UK online
UK Asian business directory
Asian People's Disability alliance
Asian arts agency
Black Enterprise awards
BlackEngineer.com
Natwest Bank (Asian Entrepreneurs Unit)
Asian Voice
Black training and enterprise group
UK Black Pride
Ethnic Minority Foundation
Oshwal Elderly Welfare Association
Ethnic Minority and Black Regional Action for Community Empowerment (EMBRACE)
Black and Minority Ethnic Elders Group
Latin American elderly project
The Black Fundraisers Network
Black Arts Alliance
Southall Black Sisters Black student union
Dudley Black regeneration council
Black Professional Events
Black Health Agency
National Association for the advancement of Black people
African Caribbean Development agency (ACDA)
African caribbean education and training services (ACETS)
Afrik-African International Network
Asian mens group
Somerset Black development agency (SBDA)
Black families education support group

the BNP states only a "British only" membership policy not a colour specific "type" of Briton.... unlike these groups listed....i think that they are the true racists here...please discuss this in parliament

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:37 AM

"For the record all those who have assumed that I had a platform during the elections you are wrong."
"I was a 'paper candidate' I did not knock on any doors or give any speeches."
"I am not well versed in politics and have not had to 'field' any questions."
"I will not comment any further since this is supposed to be a thread about legal action."

Doesn't this bear out exactly what I've been saying? That the BNP is controlled by a small clique of hard line nazis, who are hell bent on subjecting every Gill Jack of us to a totalitarian dictatorship, the like of which hasn't been seen in Europe since 1945; and that the rest of the membershit are stooges and stool pigeons, too thick to understand the issues involved?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:53 AM

"why   is Trevor Phillips of the "Equalities Commission" selectively pursuing legal action against the BNP for having a "British membership only" when there are other organizations within Britain that only allow black or Asian membership....in the interests of the "equality" that he espouses these should also face the same brand of legal action wouldn't you think??"

Hey, balddick, have you considered that maybe it's because the British Nazi Party is holding some elected public office and the other organizations you list are fraternal organizations to a greater or lesser degree? Now, kindly bugger off.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:54 AM

Forgetting the cut'n'paste knuckle-dragger for a moment, I wonder how many folk have looked at the website of the National Black Police Association?
The second paragraph on the home page states: The NBPA is open to all in policing on application, there is no bar to membership based on colour.
And yet the BNP bangs on about the NBPA every time someone has a pop at it for it's colour bar.
The BNP's own constitution says: "The British National Party represents the collective national, environmental, political, racial, folkish, social, cultural, religious and economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined 'racial group' this being 'indigenous caucasian' and defined 'ethnic groups' emanating from that race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983)."
It's a lot of long-winded bollocks, but it means 'whites only'. QED, racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:32 AM

I know the knuckle dragging troll is on a wind up about the legal action and the various associations. But it is important for people to understand the reasons for this. Thanks Gervase, you are quite right about the NBPA, as I have pointed out here before.

It is essential to understand the legislation. Various sections of the Race Relations Act deal with different types of organisations and areas of public life. For the purposes of the act, political parties fall under S.25 - associations not covered elsewhere and particulary not covered by S.11 (trade unions). There are exemptions (in S.26) for some associations. S. 25 and S. 26 appear below
---------------------------

25 Discrimination: associations not within s. 11.

(1)This section applies to any association of persons (however described, whether corporate or unincorporate, and whether or not its activities are carried on for profit) if—.
(a)it has twenty-five or more members; and.
(b)admission to membership is regulated by its constitution and is so conducted that the members do not constitute a section of the public within the meaning of section 20(1); and.
(c)it is not an organisation to which section 11 applies.

(2)It is unlawful for an association to which this section applies, in the case of a person who is not a member of the association, to discriminate against him—.
(a)in the terms on which it is prepared to admit him to membership; or.
(b)by refusing or deliberately omitting to accept his application for membership..

(3)It is unlawful for an association to which this section applies, in the case of a person who is a member or associate of the association, to discriminate against him—.
(a)in the way it affords him access to any benefits, facilities or services, or by refusing or deliberately omitting to afford him access to them; or.
(b)in the case of a member, by depriving him of membership, or varying the terms on which he is a member; or.
(c)in the case of an associate, by depriving him of his rights as an associate, or varying those rights; or.
(d)in either case, by subjecting him to any other detriment..

(4)For the purposes of this section—.
(a)a person is a member of an association if he belongs to it by virtue of his admission to any sort of membership provided for by its constitution (and is not merely a person with certain rights under its constitution by virtue of his membership of some other association), and references to membership of an association shall be construed accordingly;.
(b)a person is an associate of an association to which this section applies if, not being a member of it, he has under its constitution some or all of the rights enjoyed by members (or would have apart from any provision in its constitution authorising the refusal of those rights in particular cases)..


26 Exception from s. 25 for certain associations.

(1)An association to which section 25 applies is within this subsection if the main object of the association is to enable the benefits of membership (whatever they may be) to be enjoyed by persons of a particular racial group defined otherwise than by reference to colour; and in determining whether that is the main object of an association regard shall be had to the essential character of the association and to all relevant circumstances including, in particular, the extent to which the affairs of the association are so conducted that the persons primarily enjoying the benefits of membership are of the racial group in question..

(2)In the case of an association within subsection (1), nothing in section 25 shall render unlawful any act not involving discrimination on the ground of colour.
-----------------------

Now I have to do some work, will come back to this later if anyone is unsure why the BNP are not a S.26 association and why the others in the troll's email are.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 11:16 AM

"Forgetting the cut'n'paste knuckle-dragger for a moment"
- Gervase Webb

By the very nature of your response, you're not forgetting about the "knuckle-dragger" aren't you? You're addressings one of the topics of the original posting.

Anyway....when you've had a life time of in your face racism because of your skin colour and your ethnic background, then come and talk to me, and tell me how to react to the BNP's followers/toadies/members.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 11:54 AM

Well troll here is the first page of the Black Police Association's website.

Welcome to the National Black Police Association
The NBPA is open to all in policing on application, there is no bar to membership based on colour.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:03 PM

Royston you are under the assumption that our pet troll has an attention span great enough read your entire posting, the reality that said troll has the attention span of a gnat.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms
will apologise to the first gnat I meet today.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:43 PM

Hello lastest (brainless) guest....

For your information to discuss anything in parliament you have to be an elected MP.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:48 PM

Excellent list you posted there baldrick. It isn't exactly what some here wish to see, but the truth sometimes hurts.

Three cheers for you from Middle England.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM

So, just to finish off that Race Relations Act business,

The BNP is a membership association, not covered by other sections of the act, and has over 25 members.

It cannot discriminate against membership applications on the grounds of colour.

A constitution which, as it does, sets out a definition of acceptable members as [to cut a long story short] white skinned is unlawful.

They cannot claim that they are only an association of defined ethnic(non-colour identified) people because they do not screen applicants at a DNA level, which is the only way to prove your eligibility for membership as it is presently defined. Applicants are not asked to prove their membership of any of the defined groups, the only de facto test the BNP applies to membership applications is one of colour; are you white or not?

So if a white skinned person can have an application approved regardless of ethnic heritage then it follows that a black or other coloured skinned person must also have their application approved regardless of ethnic heritage. Simple as that.

Now, as for the list of "ethnic" associations listed by the fascist troll, check them out. Many are not membership associations, they are advocacy or advice bodies (like the Black Mental Health UK). They don't have members, they don't need an exemption, they only exist to provide advice to people.

Anything "Asian" or "Muslim" or "African" or "Chinese" is not a reference to colour. Any modern reference to "Black" invariably means "Black and Minority Ethnic" and is not a colour definition. For gawd's sake anyone actually living in this century knows this stuff. Any reference to "Women" is not colour specific. Anyone with doubts can look up all these organisations, there is no colour bar to membership, where they are actually membership associations.

I am not lecturing to the enlightened, but I reckon its important to spread the word about the Race Relations Act and why the BNP has an unlawful constitution and why these other advocacy and support groups are compliant and necessary for society.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:54 PM

HelenB

The list of groups is exactly what we want to see. The truth is marvellous, it will set you free. Now fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:58 PM

It isn't exactly what some here wish to see, but the truth sometimes hurts
- GUEST,Helen B.

Yes Helen, dearie, we noticed that the truth hurt you, you by-passed all the following posts about membership in the National Black Police Association, so let me remind you again......


*The NBPA is open to all in policing on application, there is no bar to membership based on colour.*

Charlotte OLivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant to England

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 01:00 PM

HelenB (Helen Butcher from Fakebook, probably), did you read Royston's explanation of S25 and S26? If not, why not? If so, why post what you did? Are you forgetful, stupid, or illiterate?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 01:16 PM

I should have said

The NBPA is open to all in policing on application, there is no bar to membership based on colour.*

Unlike the racist, homophobic, anti-Semetic, anti-Islamic BNP.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant to England

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:04 PM

We should really be grateful that the Public Relations Department of the BNP can spare their valuable time to grace us with these pearls of wisdom from time to time. By educating us on their policies and motivations they are giving the general public the opportunity to make a more informed decision on where to cast our votes. Such dedication should be applauded and encouraged. The major parties could learn a lot from watching the BNP's vote-catching strategies - in fact I suspect that they already have. The 'paper candidate' technique, for example - if you know how unpopular your party's policies are going to be, you find some easily manipulated politically ignorant moron to stand up and take all the flak.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:45 PM

HelenB

The list of groups is exactly what we want to see. The truth is marvellous, it will set you free. Now fuck off.
- Royston

All self-respecting drug-fiends make sure that they've taken everything before the old bill arrive. It is a policy that has served me well over the years!
-Royston

Ahh your usual articulate self as usual eh Royston, and you call ME shrill...dear, dear! *LOL*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, on to far more important matters

The list is useful, but in a limited way. It focuses (much the same as the FaF) on a single issue, and there is a big danger in being a single issue entity as many prospective political candidates have found out. The larger picture of racism has to be faced at all times, you can get lost in the details.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:51 PM

Quod erat demonstrandum, Ollie.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:05 PM

Pot calling the kettle black me thinks.

There are more important issues to be dealt with than your opinion of me and mine of you. The BNP will feed upon any disunity shown by their opponents, so for the sake of having a chance of beating them (the BNP)a show of unity would be helpful. Facts and figures can be thrown around till the cows come home, it's actions that speak the loudest (I do and always have maintained that most moderation is an excuse for doing nothing. Once I return to England, in the next week or two I'll better be able to apply myself.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:10 PM

So, balddick posts and who shows up but the t**t. Good lord. Helen, you're more transparent than Saran Wrap.



















It means twit. You filthy minded old gal, Helen.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:58 PM

At the risk of sounding *shrill* *LOL* , Bruce, I would venture to say that baldrick (first name, Sodoff) and Helen Butcher, are one and the same person, either that or their married (the thought of the offspring of such a union is enough to drive a person to the mad house)

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Richard, you should know by now that BNP posters never read anything that proves that they are talking out of their proverbials, and I am beginning to find it incredibly tedious having to type the same responses time and again on the grounds that an impressional? is there such a word bypasser who hasn't read previous posts and responses might get taken in,

Steve
ps we still owe each other the gin/port!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:37 PM

"It means twit. You filthy minded old gal, Helen."
- Peace

Nice t*ts

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
has a nice pear

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:50 PM

So now your attacking baldrick Richard.
Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership are fascist thugs, but they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

When the issue of the BNP successes was debated on Question Time, immigration was the elephant in the room.
The only panallist who tried to raise the issue was an economist.
The three politicians and the trade unionist just changed the subject and carried on talking about electoral reform, vile fascists etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:58 PM

She sings a wonderful song doesn't she, bringing up all the usual suspects, too much immigration leading the charge once more.

Let me tell you something, Helen or whatever your name is. My job was put out to tender in Britain first and then internationally, I, humble little non-white immigrant that I am, was the ONLY person fully qualified for the said job, and that's what it's all about, being qualified for a job, regardless of colour, ethnic background, or what have you, so PLEASE spare us the poor me, I'm so down-trodden because I'm white bullsh*t

Take bloody responsibility, and STOP your whining!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:15 PM

Helen B, if "most BNP voters are working class city dwellers" why is there no local council presence for the BNP here in Manchester? Why do they field so few candidates and why do the ones they do field (in overwhelmingly white wards, by the way) do so badly?

And when you make lists of inflammatory statements, how about attemting to back them up with EVIDENCE, rather than simply trotting out the same old myths and cliches?

Just a thought.

Ever made any posts about folk music on this folk music forum, by the way? Thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:23 PM

One interesting thought.

Baldrick, being colour blind, should not have quite so much to say on the subject.

Black organisations like:-

""Board Of Deputies of British Jews
Jewish Telegraph
Antrim Chinese Community Association
Barnardos Chinese Lay Health Project
Chinese Welfare Association""

would probably hold meetings for their BLACK members in a telephone box, and have room for a buffet.

Does point up though a few groups other than afro or asian peoples, who could expect very short shrift from Nick the Bigot and his charming little playmates.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:35 PM

Oh, Oh...some folk (BNP types) should watch it, my people are everywhere.(I wonder if any of them are BNP members *LOL*)
Native American DNA found in UK

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:35 PM

Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
""Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership are fascist thugs, but they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."


Reading through this pile of crap, posted by an ignorant prat, too stupid to check the true figures, I managed to find just one item of indisputable truth, which I have highlighted.

Just goes to show. Even Helen can be right once in a while, though I doubt it'll be much comfort to her.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:44 PM

"The BNP leadership are fascist thugs"
- GUEST,Helen B.

Now THAT could get her expelled from the party, if she's a member *LOL*

Charlotte Olivia Roberts (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:45 PM

Baldrick?

Hell, I thought it was baldDick. I am SOOO sorry. Please excuse me bald dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:49 PM

'"The BNP leadership are fascist thugs"
- GUEST,Helen B.'

See? Being nice has turned HER around.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:05 PM

There - I knew she was from the Public Relations Department of the BNP. You never see the LibConLabs being as refreshingly honest as that. They may be fascist thugs, but at least they're English fascist thugs, dammit.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:31 PM

Nice Richard. I never had impersonation down as one of your talents !

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:48 PM

most BNP voters are working class city dwellers

I think you'll find that many BNP are peripheral areas which were formerly Labour Party heartlands. Certainly that's true of Codnor, where the recent BNP rally was held.

The ordinary folk (who are sometimes not very well educated) have a real beef- they are often, were it not for the dole, destitute. Their parents used to be Labour Party supporters, but the LP went off in chase of middle class votes (long before Blair). Their parents were Trades Unionists, and Labour supporters, because it gave them hope of improvement. Where's that hope now?

I'm as anti- racist as they come, but I also think it's time the official antiracists (Local authority, government, and from all the major political parties) told the people of Codnor, and all the other abandoned areas, what they intend to do to make it possible for them, and their children, and their grandchildren, to make a decent living.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:49 PM

Helen,


Can you provide evidence to support the claims you made in your post of 03 Sep 09 - 05:50 PM?


Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:01 PM

"I'm as anti- racist as they come, but I also think it's time the official antiracists (Local authority, government, and from all the major political parties) told the people of Codnor, and all the other abandoned areas, what they intend to do to make it possible for them, and their children, and their grandchildren, to make a decent living."


There's a lovely Irony here.


I keep reading about people Migrating long distances to find work, then complaints about how there is no work in "my area".


Where I live, most people commute for an hour to get to work and an hour to get back.

How many places could a guy commute to that are within an hour from Codnor?

His wife would spend money in the local shop etc ...

... money comes into the area .. etc ...


The area I live in also has a good safety net for those who are down on their luck - I know - I relied on it - it's the same as that which exists in every other town in England and Wales.


Motivation is the key - and the BNP won't provide that.

Good education and support for young people is what deprived communities need.

The BNP will not provide any of those things.

A sense of hope and optimism is what need to be inspired.

The BNP will only encourage people to blame each other and cause communities to spiral downwards into hatred resentment and Violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:19 PM

Lox, I thought it was a little low, even by his standards. Black is white, day is night, right is wrong. And vice versa when expedient.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:03 PM

Oh, holy Hermione, HelenB - have you not bothered to read even a few articles about the nature of fascism?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:15 PM

Do you mean Paul?

I don't know him.

I was just inspired to make a general observation by a comment he made.

I wasn't attacking him.


I was suggesting that those who sit on their arses moaning that the reason they are unemployed is because someone else has nicked their Job should take a leaf out of the so called thieves book and try looking further than their own doorstep.

Our foreign workforce have travelled a long way to get work. These BNP supporters seem to think that work should be brought to them.

The world doesn't work like that.

By the way Helen, did you ever get round to providing that evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:56 PM

i also live in a semi rural town. there are alot of folks unemployed or who commute into manchster to work.

and those who say the migraants nicked our jobs, piffle! they are willing to do anything, they will do the jobs that most people don't want.

it is NOT their fault that the bosses pay them less, if in fact they do.
it is NOT their fault that their bosses often cut corners and provide very basic safety.
it is NOT their fault that the law has overlooked this issuse for far too long.

the great thing about the BNP being taken to court or even them getting votes, is that this particulaer can of worms has finally been opened.

all these complaints that the BNP make against (im)migrants should be talked about by government, by the media, and by the people of the great country. and by god they are!

i have listened to a phone in radio show for the last 2 weeks every night. can you guess what they have been talking about every other night?   the message, the values(if you van call them that) and the methods of the BNP......WONDERFUL STUFF.

if the other parties do not address this problem now, then i dispair!

the appathy shown in the euro elections, i hope is no indicator as to how the things will go in the general elections, which we will be having soon.

yes i used my vote last time and i will again, maybe i didn't vote as my heart dictated but with my head as a way of keeping the BNP in their place.

surely with these charges hanging over them and the constant publicity about what they truely are, they have even less chance than before to make an impact on the place we call home.

take care all

jade x x x x

ps this wasn't to anyone or as a direct response to one person but a collective response as my brain hasn't capability of remembering names.

pps, richard, i bow down to your legal genious,but i am so glad that someone posted after you and told me what it all meant. that sort of law terminology is truely DOUBLESPEAK to me. :)

x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Barry Finn
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 12:21 AM

It's a riot reading the posts for support for the BNP. It's the same logic that the KKK used here.
From what I've read they are sister organizations, with the exception that we here in the US have been plagued by the Clan long enough to know & feel that they are a stain on human race. You who support the BNP & other forms of racism will eventually be colored by the same stain that has for eons discolored the landscape of humanity.


Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:52 AM

""Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement. [..] They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership are fascist thugs, but they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

I don't personally know, whether the 'concerns' of such working class people are 'legitimate' as I don't myself see a massive influx of immigrants. For my own part, I suspect that the concerns of such people, have been generated by the Media.

But whether those concerns be legitimate, or no, in a Democracy they do have a right for those concerns to be heard and addressed, and not to have them automatically labeled 'fascism'. For if their concerns are dismissed as fascism, then they will be alienated from more moderate parties and policies, and turn to those who *are* fascist, who will welcome them home with open arms.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 02:30 AM

Crow Sister it is not like you to fail to see the logical fallacy.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 02:32 AM

And 300

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 03:09 AM

HelenB, Paul Burke and Crow Sister,

As I have repeatedly said on this board and everywhere else, there is NO EXCUSE for the BNP. Never Surrender!

The response to HelenB's justifiable list of concerns is for aggrieved and concerned people to insist that the democratic political parties - whether they be Lib/Lab/Con, whatever, to do the following;

*Build more hospitals
*Build more schools
*Build more social housing
*Increase the minimium wage
*Enforce the minimum wage ruthlessly for *all* workers so the playing field is level.

The response to a lack of social resources is not to find scapegoats and "send 'em 'ome", becaus the same shortages will persist unless governments start dealing fairly with the people *all people*. "Send 'em 'ome" is one step from "Lock 'em 'up" and that was, in the last Nazi country in Europe, one step from the gas chambers.

HelenB, BNP "sympathisers" need to get a grip on this issue. The racist. fascist hardcore of the party will just keep on picking targets and scapegoats because their lives will never improve because they will never take responsibility for themselves. Their problems will always be someone else's fault. that is why they cannot be reasoned with, why they cannot be tolerated or humoured.

Maybe you need to ask yourself the question that *they* need to ask themselves which is, instead of calculating and resenting what you believe other people are "getting", why not do something positive yourself that actually improves your own life in your own community!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:43 AM

Crow Sister's quote was one of mine, for which I paid a price.
It was NOT an excuse for BNP, just an explanation of where their votes are coming from.
They have asked for all those things on Royston's list, but no one else listens to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:09 AM

Keith, the BNP hasn't promised anyone anything that will improve the lot of "the unheard downtrodden", as they seem to be characterised. The BNP is only offering a social cull to reduce the numbers of the so-called needy. Once the "effniks" have been kicked out then they will start drawing up new lists of the "unwanted" or "un-entitled" it was ever thus. Eventually they'll come for you!

If the BNP should get their way, I can't imagine their constituents lining up to mop floors and wash bed-pans, when all the "foreign" labourers are rejected, and I certainly don't relish the idea of the ignorant, wilfully uneducated trash that tends to gather around the BNP offering to fix my teeth or do open-heart surgery on me, should I ever need it.

All people have got to take some bloody responsibility for their own lives, rather than blaming others for their own failures and hoping that jack-booted thugs will kick 'em all out and redistribute their assets and entitlements.

For crying out loud, if peasants from Pakistan or India or other places can fund themselves or their children to come here (or somewhere else) to work and study to get top-flight degrees in the toughest subjects such as medicine and then make a real contribution to our great nation, what the fuck is the problem that these BNP malcontents have either with those people or in their own lives.

There is a lack of social resources, fact. The answer is not to cull the neeedy, the answer is to make greater provision. There are options, you can vote Liberal, you can vote Green. If you don't like those options then you need to get into Labour or the Conservatives and agitate for change in those parties' policies.

Better still, get into the BNP and reform it's policies. Make it a party committed to the welfare and succes of *all the people* of Britain, not just the people of Britain that the glorious leader thinks are worthy people of Britain.

Start a new party along the above lines.

Voting Fascist BNP is lazy, craven, stupid and dangerous. I, and people like me, are constantly shouting the solutions as well as campaigning against the problem. Gradually more and more people are waking up to this and it needs more - and it needs more of "Middle England" to get behind it as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:37 AM

Actually Keith A, though I'm aware you've posted similar sentiments, I wasn't aware that those words quoted, were your precise words! I was actually posting a response to comments made by "Helen B" below, who perhaps has in fact copied your text?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 06:04 AM

Crow Sister, yes I see what happened.
Royston, yes I agree.You need to address the people who do vote BNP for those reasons.
They do have issues and feel ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 06:18 AM

...ignored by the main stream parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 08:10 AM

Barry,

The BNP isn't a new thing in the UK and I have played a small part in campaigns against them going back nearly 20 years.


They have remained, as you describe the KKK in the USA, an embarrassing stain upon society.

In fact, they were kept in check for a long time by simply being a laughing stock. They were like the idiot at a party that noone wants to hang out with because he keeps insulting everyone and groping all the women.


A charismatic leader can influence things differently, and though Griffin isn't the most endearing of characters himself, his strategy of rebranding the BNP as nothing more sinister than a moderate party that are unafraid to discuss the difficult issues honestly is potentially a dangerous one that could, in this age of brands, convince otherwise decent people to vote for them and to engage in their very specialized area of political debate.


It is up to the rest of us to ensure that their lies are exposed and that the truth of who they are is clear and easy to understand and backed up with hard evidence.


More importantl;y though, as the BNP have two seats in Europe, tey have more money to spend on promoting their ideas on one hand, but more worryingly, they have greater rights when it comes to being included in debates.

Right now there is no chance in hell of David Dukes ever being pitted face to face with Obama in a debate.

Griffin and Brons, the two BNP MEP's are elected representatives of Britain in the European Parliament, so they cannot be ignored as easily as they used to be.

They have as much right to be on the Radio and TV as any other "legit" politicians.

Consequently, their ideas are currently receiving more attention.

Consequently, refuting their lies will be a way of life for the rest of us for the next few years when we encounter them, until they lose their seats at the next election and are marginalized once again.


You can take nothing for granted and times will always change.

It is up to us to ensure they change for the better and to prevent them changing for the worse.

This is a war of ideas, so practising, even on an obscure folk website is healthy as the clearest thinker and speaker will win.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bubblyrat
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 09:32 AM

The BNP are ,happily,on the road to self-destruction.There is little,if any,need to pursue them down the mineshaft of oblivion into which they have tipped themselves.This ,they will willingly accomplish all by themselves.
                  And yet,here you all are;hateful,spiteful,vengeful,hell-bent on discrediting and destroying what is,at least for the moment,a perfectly legitimate organisation,of which membership,if not advisable or acceptable,is not actually illegal. So much for Democracy !! What,I wonder,will you all do once your aims have been accomplished ?? What other organisations,clubs,fraternities or societies should I be fearful of joining ,lest it offend your sensibilites (I was NOT considering joining the BNP !)..??
             To be honest,the BNP,"per se",do not frighten me.BUT---an awful lot of you people do !
                   I was most interested,as a former Serviceman ( Sorry,White Supremacist Colonialist Warmongerer )to read of the part played by Coloured servicemen in WW2.In fact,I believe that the esteemed Hughie, of "The Spinners" ,was one such.And I greatly admired him for that. Of course, no mention was made of the thousands of Sikhs who fought for Hitler,and ,indeed,manned the machine-gun positions along the "Atlantic Wall" on D-Day----Many a poor innocent "Tommy" unknowingly lost his life in the cause of Independence for India on June 6th 1944. But I guess you would rather not know that ?? However, I forgive you.
             Meanwhile,just calm down and let the BNP quietly fizzle out,as it will.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 09:53 AM

Hughie Jones a 'coloured' serviceman in world war 2 ? I must tell him that when I see him.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 10:05 AM

There were those who were of the opinion that a certain ex corporal Adolf Schicklegruber would never amount to anything, and could safely be ignored.

Twenty seven million gaps in the human population would seem to refute that.

The most dangerous thing about racists and fascists, is that the population at large doesn't take them seriously until it is TOO LATE.

Freedom of speech, and political freedom, do not confer the right to shout "FIRE" in a crowded auditorium, nor to incite racial hatred.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 10:12 AM

Guest. You great stupid pillock. I imagine that the previous poster was talking about Cliff Hall, not Hughie Jones, who is white and Welsh. Cliff was Black, not coloured, and he was certainly old enough to have fought in WW2.

FYI, Cliff Hall was a member of the Spinners from the mid fifties until he retired and returned to Jamaica (Yes, that's right. Returned to Jamaica, thereby passing up all the NHS benefits which he'd spent his adult life paying for.) What's more, prior to his turning professional he was a full time PAID electrician. If he ever drew the dole, or any other welfare benefit, I have no doubt it was fully justified.

But what does the truth matter to a BNP lackey like you?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 11:31 AM

"Hughie Jones a 'coloured' serviceman in world war 2 ? I must tell him that when I see him."
- Fred McCormick

I've been passing the word to a few of the surviving First Nations WWII vets around where my Mother was from (Hagersville, Ontario Canada). Now these are guys who've seen it all and then some, first venerated as heroes then reviled for who they are. Well.....I've recieved a number of e-mails back, already, the theme of all the said e-mails is one of total disbelief. I think a couple of them are willing to sign up with FaF, which is their right, of course.

There are some active fascist parties in Canada including:

Canadian Association for Free Expression
Nationalist Party of Canada
Northern Alliance
all of the above are listed has being Nazi affiliates (unlike the BNP, however, none of the above have ever gained any measure of power).

for further Fascist parties, world wide the following might be useful.

List of fascist movements

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 12:26 PM

Well, finally goaded into a racist remark (anti Canadian) (bloody hell that took long enough, you're slipping Charlie old girl)...behold the true colours of this peasant Helen Butcher, but what DO you expect from someone with the mental level of a gnat? Helen B I really am glad true English people I not like you...it's what keeps me going, dearie.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

P.S. I will apologise to the first gnat I see today

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: redhorse
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:00 PM

HelenB:
I suggest you look up "Juno Beach" in any history of the Normandy landings.....................

nick

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:05 PM

Try the useless throwing away of Canadian lives on August 19, 1942 at Dieppe. Approximately 5000 of 6100 troops involved at the Battle of Dieppe were Canadians including those from the Royal Regiment of Canada and the Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment). Tell that joke to their faces, if you dare...BUT I forget...you don't sign in as a member of Mudcat, therefore YOU are a coward, dearie!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:11 PM

Canadian War vets indeed ...

... this post is obviously designed to wind up Bruce - I hope he has the savvy to ignore it.

Here is the truth about the Canadian D-Day sacrifice.


While we're on the subject of War heroes, check out this link to a BBC documentary about the role of Muslims in the British Army over the last hundred years.

Part One of 'Muslim Tommies'. Parts two and three are easily found nearby.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:16 PM

"this post is obviously designed to wind up Bruce"
- Lox

It was designed to wind up all the Canadian viewers to these threads, but I simply couldn't allow the insult to go unanswered, particularly from an anonymous coward.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
non-white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:47 PM

"Why does a Canadian submarine have one forward gears and two reverse ?
The one forward gear is in case the Enemy come from behind !"

Silly little girl.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:00 PM

We all owe a debt to our Canadian friends.
WW1 saw them take the heaviest loss in proportion to population.
That ignorant "guest" should now withdraw from here.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:04 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bubblyrat - PM
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 09:32 AM

'And yet,here you all are;hateful,spiteful,vengeful,hell-bent on discrediting and destroying what is,at least for the moment,a perfectly legitimate organisation,of which membership,if not advisable or acceptable,is not actually illegal. So much for Democracy !!

Rather like Hamas in Palestine, Democratically voted for, and then denounced by the USA. Terrorist - of course - but still voted for in a democratic election. Now can you see the similarity?
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:21 PM

regarding bubblyrat's entire rant..ummm...my granfather, my Dad's Dad, was in the RAF during WWII (so what's YOUR point?) and was absolutely horrified every time some fascist organisation would rear its head, he lived long enough to see the Genesis of the BNP, they not only horrified him, but scared the hell out of him, he said, to anyone who'd listen "fight them to your last dying breath if you have to and don't let them grab any sort of power" You know what bubblyrat AND others who've criticised my in your face approach regarding the BNP, I'll listen to my grandfather, for whom I had massive respect.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:50 PM

More power to yer elbow, Ollie, I'm with your grandad. Whilst I'm inclined to agree with Bubblyrat in that the BNP will self-destruct, that isn't an excuse for complacency. Although the BNP may be no more than an irritating symptom, they represent fascism, and that is the enemy, not just the BNP. Symptoms, however, need to be dealt with. I personally don't think the BNP could run a piss-up in a brewery, let alone a country, but the extremist ideas they propagate are a danger to everyone. I'd like to think we'd learned something from WW2, but I fear that lesson may get weaker with each generation.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:52 PM

Smokey,
If the BNP fall down that proverbial mineshaft and kills itself, I want to see the body before I'll believe the thing is dead.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:02 PM

I fully understand the sentiment.. Fascism won't be dead though, I think it's an unfortunate part of human nature which most of us manage to suppress most of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM

Even if the BNP were, by some miracle, die, there'd always be something to replace, thus it has ever been.

Here's some information for the folks, maybe you've seen it before, maybe you haven't.

The short-lived American Friends of the British National Party gave financial assistance to the BNP from American supporters, and it also facilitated contact between far right figures in both countries.

The Trafalgar Club is the BNP fundraising club, and the name the party uses to book hotels and conference facilities.

*The BNP Ethnic Liaison Committee is an organisation that people from ethnic minorities can join. The committee has joined with BNP members in staging demonstrations.*
(INTERESTING!!!)

Great White Records is a record label launched in January 2006 that is described by the BNP as "a patriotic label". It launched a campaign to introduce British folk music to schoolchildren. Most of the songs were sung by Doncaster folk musician Lee Haggan, and were written by Nick Griffin.

Albion Life Insurance was set up in September 2006 as an insurance brokerage company on behalf of the BNP. Its stated aim is to "secure a robust financial situation for the BNP." The officers of Albion Life are all members of the BNP.

The BNP obtains funding from the sale of books and heraldic or Norse jewellery. These are usually sold through its Excalibur brand.

Oh and there is a BNP Television Channel on You Tube

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
all the news that fits

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:12 PM

It looks to me like you have all been talking amongst yourselves for a few days. Feathers may have been preened, but what has been produced?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:21 PM

I didn't know we were supposed to be producing anything.. I'd 'ave brought me 'ammer.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:40 PM

It looks to me like Paco Rabanne that was has married Nick Griffin and is now Mrs. Paco Griffin. 'Ave I got that right then?

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
no white immigrant

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:46 PM

Do I hear the patter of tiny trotters?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:49 PM

Sorry, that was an insult to pigs. Poetic license.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 07:43 PM

"The BNP obtains funding from the sale of books and heraldic or Norse jewellery. These are usually sold through its Excalibur brand."

Nick Griffin probably gets more than that per week in "expenses" from the European parliament now.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 07:50 PM

Hmm.. I wonder if the party's coffers will benefit from that, or his own..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 08:09 PM

Yeah, but Sam/Helen/Ivana/Rumplestiltskin, you and a bunch of sock puppets does not constitute a 'side'

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 08:28 PM

"Social interaction" websites more than willing to allow freedom of expression."

Members seem to be allowed a satisfactory freedom of expression. Get a grown-up to help you join.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 10:34 AM

Bingo, Smokey.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 11:00 AM

Charlotte Olivia Robertson. Re your posting about BNP front organisations above, do you (or anyone else) know of a complete listing of such fronts? I'm due to change my car insurance before too much longer and I would have hated to find I'd lodged it with Albion Life Insurance.

BTW. Two organisations I can think of that you haven't got listed.

The English Fair Fund, which awards grants to 'English' organisations celebrating St. Georges Day.

The Christian Council of Britain. Here's a video of the Great Fat Hopeless himself addressing the CCB. http://vodpod.com/watch/1531936-nick-griffin-speaks-at-the-christian-council-of-britain-in-winsford

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 11:07 AM

Ollie Beak. "The BNP obtains funding from the sale of books and heraldic or Norse jewellery. These are usually sold through its Excalibur brand."

Exaclibur also sells gollywogs. Honest to God. This lunatic bunch of clapped out crackpots sells gollywogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 11:31 AM

Correct ollie, me and Nick eloped on friday, so I am now Mrs Griffin.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 11:58 AM

Good news folks.

   The legal action looks like making a massive impact.

   disintegration of the party? ... I'll drink to that!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 12:15 PM

thats great lox, well found!!!!

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 01:48 PM

Good news indeed. It's a shame it won't happen, but I love Lox's scenario of all the 'undesirable' British joining the BNP. It would be a strain on the stomach, granted, but if they all endeavoured to kiss and touch Nick Griffin adoringly whenever he appeared in public, he'd never come out of his house again. (An idea borrowed from Jewish U.S. comedian Murray Roman)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 02:22 PM

Am I the only one here who thinks Nick Griffin looks stupid?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:05 PM

No, but he isn't. He's arrogant and not half as clever as he thinks he is though, and that will be his downfall. He has the mentality and technique of the most obnoxious kind of salesman. He's ambitious, and doesn't care who he uses or how. I think, like Moseley, his own ambition is a greater priority than his actual politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:20 PM

"The chapter I most enjoyed was the one on propaganda and organisation – there were some really useful ideas there
Nick Griffin on Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf"

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:21 PM

Oh, WHAT a surprise. It's Helen. What brought you out from under the rock?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:24 PM

Smokey,

I'd have to disagree with you about his stupidity. Every party he's ever been involved with has failed. The BNP is failing, too. He's the common link.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:32 PM

Peace - He certainly doesn't know how to play the game of politics, that's for sure. They'll never let him get his snout in the trough.

Helen - "The lads"? Don't you think that's a wee bit juvenile?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:38 PM

"The lads" will give him a welcome when they can get themselves untangled. They spend too much time 'male bonding', imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:44 PM

....Or 'playing leapfrog' as it used to be known.

When they've finished burning cuddly toys, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:55 PM

There are some seriously sick people connected with the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:13 PM

Where else could they court popularity? The vast majority of people can easily see that extremist politics can never work. Particularly if you alienate most of the electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:37 PM

""The lads will give them all a welcome they will never forget.""

YES!

With baseball bats and steel toecap boots, if the past is anything to go by.

But, of course the official line will be "They are nothing to do with us, but we don't condemn their patriotic actions".

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:39 PM

HelenB isn't even a female. Lets ya know more about BNP supporters than ya ever cared to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:43 PM

That's exactly what she meant Don - it was a laughable attempt at subtlety. She's the BNP's public relations department.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:47 PM

I hope she's sober once in a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:57 PM

I think the poor misguided soul is off to the bar. Have a nice evening, Sam/Helen. Please don't fall down drunk and smash your face.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:58 PM

Do it when you're sober. You'll feel it more.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:05 PM

I won't attempt to initiate a fresh thread on this subject. Hopefully enough interested parties will already be watching....?

How did it come about, that someone created the idea of a 'hoax' around the hollocaust? For myself, it was the internet a couple of years ago, which exposed me to the notion of 'hollohoax'.

It strikes me as a monstrous and willful manipulation of information to bias the 2nd WW so badly that now we have a political party in the UK (the BNP), whose ideology is rooted in this notion of a faux mass European History, where the victors over the Nazi's deliberately 'built' chimneys, to pretend that the Jewish race had been targeted!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:05 PM

There are hundreds of thousands of Asian and Black British citizens who would have no problem organizing to join the BNP together in large numbers.

They would of course bring whatever gifts and good cheer that they deemed appropriate to share with those jolly lads who hope to give them such a warm welcome.

My dear helen, do I detect a little defensiveness in your last post?

Your writing style has developed a tense anxious quality.

Could it be you are a little irked at realizing what a fool you are making of yourself?


Grrrr .....

Back to plan 'A' then - bashing heads - we knew all this intulleckshul stuff wuz a waste of time ...

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:07 PM

It's not all that intellectual. Join the party, vote out the racists and Bob's yer uncle. However, between now and then, why be 'nice' with trash like Sam/Helen?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:11 PM

Off entertaining 'the lads', I shouldn't wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:15 PM

S/he's getting ready for a night out with the boyz.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Well at least it will shut her up for a while..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Helen tried to get me to accept her/him/it/amoeba as a friend on facebook. Take a 'F**k off tablet' was what I thought as I denied said request. Obviously thinks we're as stupid as her/him/it/amoeba/blob.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM

Crow Sister - Holocaust denial has been around since the end of WW2. I think it was started by the Nazis, but mostly perpetuated by the church, who were desperately trying to clean up their image, having 'backed the wrong horse'. All sorts of nutters have cottoned on to the idea since, but I'm not sure most of them actually believe it. The likes of the BNP just do it for effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 03:27 AM

Please remember that Mudcat people are particularly suspicious of people who post with multiple identities. If you're posting anonymously or under multiple identities, most likely your posts will be deleted, especially from BNP threads. This has nothing to do with the content of your messages - if you fool around with your identity, you can expect to be deleted.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 04:09 AM

There was an announcement on Radio 4 news this morning that BBC tv's Question Time is planning to invite Nick Griffin onto one of its programmes. No date has yet been set. Normally I support the line 'don't talk to fascists. However, having seen griffin tied up in knots by interviewers in the past, this is one I'll be really looking forward to.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 04:19 AM

I heard that too. As in they have to, as they cannot treat any legal party differently. Other parties have hitherto stated that they would refuse to appear on the same platform, but the BBC says that no participant has the right to dictate the line-up.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 05:44 AM

"allegedly "racist" political parties"

What planet are you living on? There is no "allgedly" about it.

"All this talk about left-wing ideologies of socialism, fascism, protectionism, populism, and welfare statism is crap."

Ah, there's a well-rounded and well-expressed political theory typical of the BNP's intelligent debate.

Well, to express a reply in the languange you may understand: "bollocks!"

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 06:17 AM

BNP's intelligent debate..... Isn't that a contradiction?

I hope that if Griffarse does get invited to Question time that the audience are not flooded with his cronies who have been given months to carefully rehearse the same old pathetic crap BNP supporter keep spouting, and that the majority will be intelligent decent people who will tear him to pieces (compared with the BNP collective mental capacity that would be 99.999% of the rest of the population) . Is anyone going to apply to be in the audience?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 06:23 AM

Is anyone going to apply to be in the audience?

It depends where the programme is transmitted from. We won't know that until we have a transmission date.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 07:10 AM

For all those who said things like:

"why are these threads still going?"

"Apart from giving a few liberals the chance to spout their ego's what is this thread achieving?"

and

"The BNP are washed up and if we ignore them they'll go away"


Here is why we must practice and get good at taking them apart.

Fascists with a platform


Lets hope that the other guests they choose are the cream of Britains most patient debaters. Griffin will be prepared with a load of cheap
one liners, insults and Lies and only those who do not react to him but cut straight to the chase will beat him.

Anyone "righteous" will be made a mockery of.

The thing to remember is who Griffin will be speaking to - he won't be aiming his comments at angry middle class liberals, he will be aiming to push the buttons of poor, vulnerable disenfranchised brits.

This demographic generally sees middle class liberals and politicians as pompous and self serving so a judgemental approach could simply serve to give strength to Griffins button pushing technique.

Griffins debating opponents should therefore also be aiming to speak to the same demographic in an inclusive understanding way and at the same time they should make it clear and easy to understand that the BNP are Liars.

This issue is ongoing until they lose their seats.


Peace - in an earlier post you questioned me for talking about a "new political reality" - this is it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 08:03 AM

he will be aiming to push the buttons of poor, vulnerable disenfranchised brits.

Problem might be, how much of that demographic actually listens to Question Time.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 08:52 AM

The question time audience will be a deliberately representative cross section of the public.

The wider TV and Radio audience is hard to predict but his infamy might result in people watching who wouldn't normally do so.

Besides which, your comment doesn't really have any bearing on the quote in Italics - his approach will be the same and the same tactics need to be used no matter who is or isn't listening.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 09:59 AM

If all goes well then Nazi Nick will never make it to Question Time. The true extent of what anti-BNP activists are going to do to this rag-tag bunch of fascists hasn't even dawned on them yet.

Get the membership criteria opened up.

Flood the party with new members so that it becomes a shining beacon of 21st Century multiculturalism.

Start on constitutional reform to a)make it an inclusive, multicultural party of socialist, europhile champions of all working people and b)get rid of Nazi Nick and his cronies. A candidate for leader only needs 5 years in the party and 100 signatures (we've had people on the inside for years).

Every time the party makes a racist statement, the offended members will take legal action.

Every time a "traditional" member makes a racist attack or comment, offended members take legal action.

The BNP could easily become exactly what the labour party is failing to be: a socialist champion of all working folk regardless of race, colour or creed...

...or it will just crumble and die. Oh well, shit happens. Plus ca change. The point is that undemocratic racists and fascists will never have the organised structures (political parties) that they need in order to subvert and destroy the democratic process.

The plans for the BNP are entirely democratic...what could be *more* democratic than joining a party and using your vote as a member of it to effect change?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 12:13 PM

It's Radio 4. Just wondered how many of the blobs can tune their radios past Radio Scum. Do they know the difference between AM and FM, or are they only interested in S&M ?

John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 12:14 PM

That GUEST above was me - suckered in I'm afraid.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 12:46 PM

The proper response would be to do all that we can to let our representatives know that we expect them to boycott any such program.

We should also campaign to ensure that the only listeners are BNP supporters.

Nothing has greater effect on the Media than falling ratings, and it should be possible to drive those through the floor while isolating Nazi Nick in a near empty studio.

Who knows, if the BBC can't GET a cross section audience, and can't get any reps from other parties, they might have to cancel on the grounds that they CAN'T produce a properly balanced debate.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:00 PM

Don't think it would work.

If you and I are invited to have a live debate and I drop out, you still get to use the time to express your views.

I think all it would achieve would be to give the BNP an unopposed platform.

Our democracy, which for all its flaws is right to protect Media impartiality, has given him a platform.

We learned in the last elections that democracy is only strong if we participate in it.

So lets participate.

If the show is anywhere near London, I will be trying to get a ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:18 PM

A couple of posters seem to think Question Time is a radio programme. It isn't. It is a tv programme which is broadcast on Thursday nights at 22-35 and appears to attract a very respectable audience.

there is absolutely no chance that we could get the entire non-BNP membership to boycott it. Also, it's not strictly speaking a debating programme. Rather the format consists of questions, usually topical, from members of the audience, which are answered by each panel member in turn, with contributions usually being invited from the floor.

Debates do occur between panel members though, and anyone with Griffin's mouth problem could be forced into a few awkward corners, if he comes out with some of the drivel he has spouted in the past. I'm thinking of his "sink immigrant ships" line, or the one where he wanted to drop British born 'immigrants' out of a plane over Africa.

Success in routing the fat b..ard will therefore depend on who the BBC get for the rest of the panel. Just one skilled anti-fascist debater should be all it takes.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:26 PM

Bring 'em on, I say. Give them all the rope they need to hang themselves. Force them into a civilised sensible debate where they have to defend their dodgy politics against calmly presented logic and intelligence.

Another approach would be to let them fill the place with their own supporters and turn it into a circus. Probably just as effective in terms of 'impressing' the electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:33 PM

my questions for the panel (so far).

(1) Does the panel agree that all criminal convictions of candidates standing for public office should be stated on ballot papers?

(2) Does the panel believe that Holocaust denial should be an indictable offence as it is in other European countries?

(3) Does the panel believe that peaceful demonstration plays an important role in democracy, and does it applaud the conduct of those who took part in the recent anti-fascism protest at Codnor?

(4) Should elected representatives who have been nominated by a political party which has illegal membership crieria be removed from office?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:39 PM

Griffin will doubtless have a few planted members, but you can bet your bottom dollar they will be primed, handpicked and guaranteed not to disrupt. The most effective approach will be to let the other panel members and non-fascist contributors from the floor tie him up in knots.

So I hope that our side doesn't turn it into a circus either, because that will be exactly what Griffin wants. Just give him enough rope and watch him hang himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:41 PM

Owen,

"Question Time" is a TV programme, but this is a very middle class sort of forum and many may be thinking of "Any Questions" which is the Radio 4 show of the same format (I tend to think of them both as "Question Time". The discussion applies equally to both shows, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:47 PM

Just give him enough rope and watch him hang himself.
Ask him about his health, education, and general economic policies.

Ask him how he plans to persuade the people he doesn't like to leave the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 02:31 PM

Sorry, I was thinking of 'Any answers' of course, and not 'Any Questions'. I stand guilty.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 07:40 PM

Isn't question time rebroadcast on saturday as a radio show on radio 4 as well?

I clearly stand to be corrected.

I generally watch it on TV

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 08:00 PM

Apply here to participate in the program.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Keith Myers
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 02:10 AM

Good one Fred - Keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Leah
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 03:24 AM

Many people from outside Europe will find it harder to get jobs in the UK when the Government announces a series of measures to favour "home-grown" workers.

The measures, to be introduced by Home Secretary Alan Johnson later today, are among 16 proposals put forward by the Migration Advisory Committee to deal with these scroungers.

They follow Gordon Brown's pledge of "British jobs for British workers", made during a wave of strikes earlier this year over employing contractors from abroad, once their workers arrive in the UK, it's straight onto benefits.

It is thought the changes would have excluded up to three in ten of the foreign workers granted permits last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 03:30 AM

"employing contractors from abroad, once their workers arrive in the UK, it's straight onto benefits."

What on earth do you mean? Your post makes absolutely no sense! British workers were striking over contracted overseas workers, not actually working at-all, but instead going straight onto benefits?

FFS, if you want people to take your claims about the issue of immigration at all seriously, at least try to make some bleeding sense man!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 04:11 AM

Just ignore "Leah". This is the same pillock who was accusing Cliff Hall of sponging off the Welfare State, and the same gob...te who was recently calling himself Sam.

Whatever. RE., Nick Griffin and Question Time. I heard an interesting announcement on Radio 4's Today programme's review of the morning papers. According to the Independent, Labour is going to drop its traditional stance of refusing to share platforms with fascists, and put up one of its heavyweights instead. No indication, seemingly, that they've yet got anyone in particular in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 07:22 AM

re giving the BNP a BBC platform

extract from Sunny Hundal in today's press

"A question for the BBC"

'There is a deeper question here for the BBC. Is it merely an independent platform that should offer space to any sufficiently popular viewpoint or should it exercise more editorial judgement?

For example, there is a significant movement of people online who believe they aren't being told "the truth" about who was behind 9/11 and 7/7.

There are a huge amount of "birthers" in America who believe Obama was not born in the USA despite the overwhelming evidence. There are the climate-change denialists, the creationists and even the Holocaust deniers. A straightforward reporting position would require that the BBC give roughly equal time to two opposing points of view in the name of impartiality, even if the evidence overwhelmingly contradicts one side.

A similar problem applies to the BBC's formats. Question Time is basically a populist shouting match where facts and figures don't have time to get checked. Someone such as Dan Hannan MEP can claim 84% of our laws are made in Europe and no one calls him out on his rubbish. Nick Griffin could similarly claim he's not racist and repeat lies that go unchallenged live on air. BNP pamphlets have repeatedly featured lies in the past. Who will have the research on hand to challenge that? His fellow QT panellists won't. And so the BBC will be used to spread lies by a party in thrall to antisemitism, racism, sexism and general conspiracy theory looniness.

All this will only demean the BBC's reputation.

Many of the BNP's supporters say they're only trying to protect Britain from those who intend to destroy it. But the BBC is giving space to an organisation that itself is anti-democratic, authoritarian and averse to our liberal democratic traditions. It seeks to destroy the very basis of the nation it claims it's trying to protect. Why shouldn't it be treated with less support and respect than the other political parties?'

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 07:34 AM

Leah, here, of course, may or may not be the Leah Green from fakebook.

In any event, it would help to get the facts of the Lindsey refinery strikes correct.

Total is a French company. It owns the Lindsey refinery. France is in the EU.

The bit I am having a slight trouble tracing right now is that Total wanted a large construction project carried out at Lindsey and I am sure that they engaged a US corporation and the US corporation then engaged a subcontractor, IREM, for part of the work.

The Italian (Italy is part of the EU)company IREM engaged (in Italy) workers - mainly Portuguese (Portugal is also a member of the EU) and Italian - and some non-EU.

They were engaged in Italy and under Italian law and on Italian terms. But under the EU "Posted Workers Directive" IREM could post those cheaper workers to do the work at Lindsey.

So, for the most part, the workers actually doing the work at Lindsey could not have been excluded under EU law and will not be excluded under the proposed reforms. The problem at Lindsey was and is the Posted Workers Directive, there are no plans to change it and it cannot be unilateraly changed by the UK - only under and in accordance with EU law.

It would help communication if the BNP posters had some idea what they were talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 07:46 AM

Minor fine tuning.

The head contractor was Jacobs.

IREM were subcontracted for the whole of the work.

The Italian and Portuguese workers were part of IREM permanent employees.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:02 AM

"It would help communication if the BNP posters had some idea what they were talking about. "


Heehee, that raised a smile, Richard...

Hey, I've 'met' *leah* as well, over on Facebook...blew her up last night..metaphorically speaking of course..

What kind of person has a load of different pages, all run by the same person, who then holds conversations with themselves? Weird, huh? Billy Nomates, I guess, because Leah's page is filled with her mates who she's erm...invented, some of whom are you, or me, or others from Mudcat...It gets more and more laughable.

Legal action over BNP membership.

Brilliant idea.

You want to be a member of the BNP, you get sent to prison, indefinitely, in the somewhat quaint village of 'Throwawaythekeyandletemrot'

Next, m'Lud!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:10 AM

It was announced today the Home Office has accepted all 16 recommendations made by the Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) on how to tighten up the rules controlling when skilled workers are allowed to take jobs in the UK.

Currently British firms have to advertise vacancies at UK Jobcentres two weeks before they are able to look abroad.
Under changes being announced by Home Secretary Alan Johnson this is to be extended to a month before recruiting from overseas.
This means, the Home Office said, that British workers will have more time to apply and be interviewed


The measures recommended by the Migration Advisory Committee are designed to tilt the odds in favour of British jobseekers AND those from EU countries with a right to work in the UK.

The qualification period for skilled foreign workers employed by multinational companies to become eligible to work in the UK will also be doubled to a year.
Also, the minimum salary that will allow someone to qualify as a skilled worker and be eligible to work in the UK will rise from £17,000 to £20,000.


The striking workers in Lindsey did have legitimate grievances against Total SA and the construction firm IREM — against their exclusion from employment on the refinery construction project, and against the inevitable undercutting of wages and conditions which results from the employment of non-unionised workforces

As TUC General Secretary Brendan Barber said

'Unions are clear that the anger should be directed at employers, not the Italian workers.
No doubt some of the more distasteful elements in our towns and cities will try to use the fears of workers to stir up hatred and xenophobia'


For an analysis of the action at Total's Lindsey oil refinery Seumas Milne's article from January this year also comments how
'the BNP and its friends will try to exploit these rolling stoppages'

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 09:13 PM

"Leah's" post is a cut and paste job. Keriste, one would think the English are complete idiots were 'she' (is that YOU, Morton?) the only Brit posting here.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 09:23 PM

BTW, Leah. I really dislike the passive voice (It is thought). Please steal better stuff in future! And stop trying to pass the words of others off as your own. Not only a racist piece of trash but also a crook. Just about what one expects from bnp garbage.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 04:31 AM

"in the somewhat quaint village of 'Throwawaythekeyandletemrot'"

I guess they don't have a village green there - much less play cricket on it ... ;-)


... I'll get my coat xx

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 06:38 AM

""It would help communication if the BNP posters had some idea what they were talking about.""

HEAVEN FORFEND!

If they were able to muster enough brain cells to know what they're talking about, they WOULD be dangerous.

No Lox, no village green. They do have a vacancy for a village idiot, but the BNP, collectively, are underqualified for the post.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 07:07 AM

Neo-Nazi Neil Lewington, of Tilehurst, Reading, who was arrested some time ago for preparing for acts of terrorism, has today been given a life sentence.

I've checked the BNP membership list and there is no-one of that name on there. However, there are seven members resident in Tilehurst, so he could well be listed under a false name.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 07:59 AM

I checked on 192.com and there are three Woodsons living in Tilehurst Reading, so he could also be a cousin of yours under a false name.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 11:09 AM

Go away anonymous guest, no-one asked you to open your mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 11:51 AM

"BTW. Two organisations I can think of that you haven't got listed."
- Owen Woodson.

Owen, that list was a combination of off the top of my head and Wikipedia, I've a feeling I missed a good number of organisations attached to the BNP and its lackies/parasites/hangers on

Been a great weekend, did nothing except listen to music, very pleasant. I see Nick's wife Paco has been "having a go", my first thought was, would the moron dare saying the same thing to my face, answered my own question, no the gutless wonder wouldn't, after all how do you tell your mates you been given the one over by a female who is much smaller than you? *LOL*
More Anon. guests I see, the idiots just won't give it up

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
never get in the way of a short
person with something to prove
- Norman Thelwell

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 01:56 PM

This falls into the FWIW category:

I just came across a reference to Stewie Griffin. Since I don't watch American animated television sitcom,Family Guy , I had no idea who Stewie Griffin is.

For those who also don't have a clue, and want to (have a clue), check out this link.

**

I'm wondering if that character was patterned after Nick Griffin, or if it's just a coincidence that Stewie has the same last name as the person in charge of the infamous BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:00 PM

Azizi, the family name in Family Guy is Griffin.Having said that, some of Stewie's behaviour patterns are strongly reminiscent of certain far-right wing figures in history.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:20 PM

Guest. Me related to that pathetic slob ? I doubt it. There are a good many skeletons in the family closet, but you can take it as read that no member of my family would have shacked up with the ancestor of a dysfunctional alcoholic derelict like that.

He quite reminds me of the well known anti-fascist slogan, "Master race? You're having a laugh". Perhaps he's a relative of yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:29 PM

Nick Griffin has a solidly upper-middle-class background, so he's not much like the cartoon character.

When he started his career, I was pretty sure that both he and his pal Patrick Harrington were plants from one of the intelligence agencies. The fascist parties they belonged to had an uncanny knack of flushing themselves down the toilet of history shortly after they joined. Subsequent events suggest I was wrong about Griffin - he's kept at it far too long and determinedly - but it's hard to see any other explanation of Harrington that makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:29 PM

My sister remined me, this past weekend of a song and a cartoon short that perfectly sums up and makes fun of the BNP and it's lackies/toadies/parasites/other hangers on.

DER FUEHRER'S FACE
Spike Jones & His City Slickers


CHORUS
When der fuehrer says we is de master race
We heil (pffft) heil (pffft) right in Der Fuehrer's Face
Not to love der fuehrer is a great disgrace
So we heil (pffft) heil (pffft) right in Der Fuehrer's Face


When Herr Goebbels says we own the world and space
We heil (pffft) heil (pffft) right in Herr Goebbels' face
When Herr Goering says they'll never bomb dis place
We heil (pffft) heil (pffft) right in Herr Goering's face


Are we not the supermen Aryan pure supermen
Ja we are the supermen (super duper supermen)
Is this Nutzi land so good
Would you leave it if you could?
Ja this Nutzi land is good
We would leave it if we could


We bring the world New Order
Heil Hitler's world New Order
Everyone of foreign race
Will love der fuehrer's face
When we bring to the world dis order.

The Walt Disney cartoon short (courtesy of You Tube)
Der Fuehrer's Face

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:36 PM

I forgot to add this link, a very frightening piece, once more filmed by Walt Disney.
Education for Death: The Making of the Nazi

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:45 PM

Der Fuehrer's Face. Absolutely brilliant. I couldn't stop laughing. Like Modern Times on helium.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:56 PM

If it means anything, Der Fueherer's Face was voted number 22 in the Top 25 Greatest Cartoons ever made, and received a number of awards at the time of its release (1943) and you can see why. This was Disney at the height his/their powers. Interestingly enough The Disney Studio made these propaganda short for the U.S government because they (the Disney Studio) had lost a whole whack of money making and distributing Fantasia (it terribly at the box office on top of everything else)

Sorry for that slight thread drift...and now we return you to your regular scheduled programming.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:58 PM

"Education for Death: The Making of the Nazi." Frightening is the operative word. No wonder George Orwell thought up 1984. BTW. Did you notice a distinct facial resemblance between Goebells and Gollum in The Lord of the Rings?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 03:19 PM

facial resemblance between Goebells and Gollum in The Lord of the Rings?
- Owen Woodson
Owen, my husband is peering over my shoulder looking at your post and nodding most enthusiastically and has just said, "Look someone else noticed the resemblance too, I thought it was just me" *LOL*

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Gollum/Goebbels

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: treewind
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 03:37 PM

Gollum
Goebbels

Hmmm....

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 04:23 PM

from the Press Association


A businessman who confronted British National Party members when they put a leaflet through his door has said he feels "vindicated" after being found not guilty of threatening the men. Skip related content

Mohammed Latif, 38, was accused of swearing at Duncan Warner, 44, and Gerard Williams, 54, and calling them "Nazis" before trying to snatch their leaflets.

But the business manager, from Stockport, Greater Manchester, who is married with two young children, insisted he did not use any foul language.

And the court believed his version of events - that he was actually trying to hand the pamphlet back

Mr Warner, organiser for the party's Stockport branch at the time, and Mr Williams, who has been a BNP member for five years, were delivering pamphlets on April 9 this year when the incident happened. The pair were distributing flyers in Broadstone Road, Stockport, when a "Muslim man" approached and asked if they were responsible for the material, Mr Warner told Stockport Magistrates' Court.

"I ignored his question and walked away. He came back and called us Nazi f***ers, and shouted "hey, I'm talking to you d***heads," he said. "I was very offended by this insult because members of my family died in the war fighting the Nazis."

But Mr Latif said he was handing the leaflet back because he did not want his wife or two young sons to see it. He said he only approached them to ask why they deliver leaflets without checking who lives in the houses.

"Maybe if I wanted to plaster my bedroom in BNP leaflets I might have taken them. I wanted a civil conversation. I didn't threaten to follow anyone home. In fact I told the police I was worried for my own safety, in case there were any reprisals," he said.

Speaking after the case, Mr Latif urged people to stand up for what they believe in.

He said: "I feel vindicated. I was an innocent man who was dragged through the courts, causing a lot of distress to my family and friends. I do not want other people to go through what I have been through but everyone should try to find a voice to defend their beliefs. It is so important."

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Jenny Brampton (in the lirbrary)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 11:21 AM

I find it difficult to understand why we have migrant workers coming to this country filling vacancies, when there are 10,000's people in UK claiming benefits. Why can't the UK people be forced to do the work after they have been claiming benefits for say, 6 months? If it's because the unemployed don't want to do the jobs; tuff!!!

Jenny B

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 11:56 AM

""I find it difficult to understand why we have migrant workers coming to this country filling vacancies, when there are 10,000's people in UK claiming benefits. Why can't the UK people be forced to do the work after they have been claiming benefits for say, 6 months? If it's because the unemployed don't want to do the jobs; tuff!!!""

And they claim they are not Fascists!

First kick out all the foreigners, dumping would be new arrivals in the briny with a lifebelt and a compass, so they can find their way back to wherever.

Those that won't go voluntarily, can be dropped out of aircraft over Africa, so then we'll all be British.

THEN WE CAN GET THE LABOUR CAMPS SET UP, to accommodate the lazy, the poor, the disabled, gays, Jazz musicians, etc. etc.

Does this spark off any memories of past events?

I'm sure we had to deal with similar arseholes a few years back.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Jenny Brampton (home again)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 12:20 PM

I don't understand that last addition to the debate at all? Do you agree with me, or not? It doesn't make much sense.

Jenny B

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Jenny Brampton
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 12:22 PM

Are you calling me an arsehole?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 12:26 PM

Are you calling me an arsehole?

I thought you said you didn't understand the post!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 12:37 PM

Your proposal is flawed on at least 2 fronts:

(a) You can't assume that "UK People" ss you put it are qualified to carry out jobs which current employ migrant workers - this includes nurses, doctors, etc, and on the same note, whether employers would want to employ "UK people" who apply.

(b) If capitalists are denied "cheap" labour in this country, there is virtually nothing to stop them from moving production, and now even services overseas to exploit sweat labour.

A third issue is whether as tax payers we are prepared to subsidise employers who pay salaries on or just above national minimum wage, or offer very few hours employment.

As mentioned several times, migrant workers make a positive contribution to our economy through direct and indirect taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 01:12 PM

For the life of me I can't understand why these threads are still running, you have chewed them, twisted them, lied in them, swore in them and all for what ?

The reality is, the UK has become an open door to scroungers, yes scroungers. There are more Europeans coming over now than there was three years ago. They bring their breeding machines with them. A family consisting of two adults and three kids get more from state benefit handouts than if both were in employment. They have more fiddles running than a folk session.

Open your eyes and see that we need to limit the entry into the UK of these freeloaders and in doing so we will cut down on drug related offences, stabbings, drunk driving and murder.

British wealth for the British people. I would like to see some of you lot head out to one of these third world countries and ask for a rent free house and state benefits ! You would most likely end up on the pan.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 01:22 PM

One small question from me. What about the resident scrougers, I'm talking white people here, or don't white folk do that? Helen the lack of logic in any of your postings, and I, for my sins, have read them all, is alarming and a pack of lies to boot.

Another thing, by British do you mean those persons who are descended from those who entered Britain in the earlier waves of immigration, let'say, from Jamaica, the West Indies, Inda, Pakistan
Please explain what you mean by British.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Jenny Brampton
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 01:30 PM

Folkiedave
I said "I don't understand that last addition to the debate " I didn't say that I didn't understand him being rude to me. Seems to me Mudcat has become a playground for those who want to insult people because they feel safe behind their screens.

What an appauling place this is. I'm so glad I'm a guest and not a member. God knows what you are doing to each other in private messages.

JB

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 01:33 PM

True Brits support our troops, they don't burn our flag, they don't leave parcels on buses or tube trains, if you want to live in Britain,accept British traditions. If you settle in the UK, accept the British way of live, if you want to roast goats at the back of your house or sell guns or drugs and annoy those living around you with jungle music, then go home if you miss that way of life.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 01:34 PM

"You would most likely end up on the pan."

Do you mean eaten, as in cannibalism, or is it some quaint colloquialism with which I am not acquainted?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 01:40 PM

You're opposed to roasting goats at the back of your house? Does this mean you're against family barbeques in the garden? I suppose that means you'd be against hamburgers, fish, you know, anything that can be done on the barbeque. That's terribly anti-social of you, you'd not be welcome on our road.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 03:09 PM

Do the supporters of the BNP refuse treatment from non-white (or non-'British') surgeons, doctors and nurses etc. when they are ill or hospitalised? They should really, as a matter of principle - it would be a very patriotic gesture.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 03:14 PM

Do the supporters of the BNP refuse to ride on buses that have non-white (or non-'British') drivers, or trains and planes for that matter?
The list goes on, firmly underlining the complete ridiculousness of much of the BNPs beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 04:53 PM

"True Brits support our troops, they don't burn our flag, they don't leave parcels on buses or tube trains, if you want to live in Britain,accept British traditions. If you settle in the UK, accept the British way of live, if you want to roast goats at the back of your house or sell guns or drugs and annoy those living around you with jungle music, then go home if you miss that way of life."

Wonderful stuff - you couldn't make it up, could you? You can just see this twat turning red in the face, eyeballs bulging, spouting this crap as we all sit around eating a damn good curry and wetting ourselves with laughter as she makes a complete arsehole of herself.

Come on, let's have some more, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:19 PM

How even a BNP supporter can highlight "they don't leave parcels on buses or tube trains" in the week that a White supremacist has been jailed here for taking bombs onto a train shows how little contact they have with reality.

And of course, "British" people never leave these islands to move to continental Europe where they never learn the language and don't mix with local communities, do they?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:23 PM

You can just see this twat turning red in the face, eyeballs bulging, spouting this crap as we all sit around eating a damn good curry and wetting ourselves with laughter as she makes a complete arsehole of herself.

And don't forget the "jungle music" playing in the background.

;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:29 PM

Georgina, that reminds of those "cute" little pseudo-British pubs you see in North America and in Spain.

Helen B probably doesn't listen to rock music at all...after all it has "jungle music" elements in it!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:50 PM

This thread is still open because racists keep submitting unfounded and unsubstantiated scare-mongering claptrap, and as long as there is a risk that one person might get taking in by it, mudcat members - note NOT GUESTS - do what we can to show the flaws, even though we would much rather spend our time talking about folk music.

As their is no evidence that guest give a **** about folk, I for one would be grateful if you could crawl back into your gutter so I can get on with my life.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:53 PM

Helen B... True Brits prefer to murder pregnat women and their unborn children.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:55 PM

big up to the junglehouse massive!!! i guess you don't like reggae do you ? nor gansta rap, elton john wouldn't stand a chance at being played at parties. most of the charts would have to be banned too.

can't watch tv, can't listen to the radio and can't travel anywhere, coz even the roads you drive on were sort of invented by the romans. must be some life they are living, could someone tell me whether they should even be using the internet?

way to uphold ones beliefs.

i foget now how long did the BNP member got for terrorist activities????

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:58 PM

Helen B, I tell you what I have just re-read what you posted, don't even bother answering - you haven't got the intelligence to do so. Just stuff yourself in your own gas-chamber.....

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 06:07 PM

Oh by the way... If you want "true Brit" drug dealers to go home, where exactly is that?
Well????????? It is a very simple question...................

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 06:14 PM

Wow ... what a world that would be ...

Imagine of Britain got rid of all its nonces and terrorists ...

there'd be no BNP ...

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 06:30 PM

BNP district councillor Rod Law, who contested the Loughton Central seat in the Essex County Council elections is close friends with the football hooligan turned drug dealer John 'Jock' Shearer, who once served as party leader Nick Griffin's security chief but quit in one of the BNP's many internal bust-ups

Shearer circled in orange (Rod Law is circled in pink) is just one of many criminals involved in the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 06:41 PM

"sell guns or drugs and annoy those living around you.."

Oh dear, I think Helen B shot herself in both feet

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 06:50 PM

So are you suggesting that the arms industry is run by migrants?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM

Helen B is as crazy as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Since she likely won't understand what I just said--it's a paraphrase of something Mark Twain wrote--please explain it to her if you're of a mind to.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:03 PM

I do believe that's exactly what Helen B is insinuating, SBP.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:12 PM

This isn't true Emma B, by the way, loved reading those pm's :)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:14 PM

I love reading your other fantasies on the fake mudcat too Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:20 PM

Helen B is nothing more or less than a nasty little racist who's going to get her comeupance one of these fine days. I'm not sure whether we should hasten that comeupance or just sit back and watch her do it herself.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:33 PM

The wheels of justice and all that jazz.

Oh that's right. Jazz is "jungle" music, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:53 PM

Jazz was banned in Nazi Germany, The Nazi regime passed notorious edicts banning jazz records and muted trumpets calling them degenerate art or entartete Kunst

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:56 PM

Jenny Brampton, please don't even try to reason with these people, most wear blinkers, others secretly fantasise over black guys, the rest are simply too thick to hold a debate with. When they lose it here, they go onto bebo or Myspace and hassle decent folk. Very mature I must say.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:58 PM

Good lord. Helen B, your punctuation is horrible.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:59 PM

Helen B, be careful where you tread. Simply because you can't find anyone to support your racist claims, please don't try the divide and conquer tactic, it simply won't work.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 08:29 PM

The irony, of course, is, BNP are on Face Book. Myspace and Twitter.
Laughable at best, pathetic at worst

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 08:34 PM

jenny b,

are you real or are you another clone?

upton festival, who do you or did you used to go with?

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 10:16 PM

most wear blinkers, others secretly fantasise over black guys, the rest are simply too thick to hold a debate with.

I think that's what is known as 'the pot calling the kettle black'.. or maybe 'projection' in some circles.

Helen(?) - there are debaters on here who would eat you for breakfast and you know it. Go away and study logical fallacies, preferably for a long time. It might even enlighten you as to the true nature of some of the contentious drivel you appear to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 10:23 PM

By the way - imaginary friends are a sign of insecurity, aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 10:24 PM

Helen B has no friends. I feel sorry for "her".

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 10:30 PM

I've fantasised about playing the joanna with Chuck Berry - does that count, I wonder..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 10:34 PM

Folks, one saying keeps going through my mind vis à vie dear Helen B, and that is never ever have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. Helen B is definitely unarmed

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 10:39 PM

She doesn't seem to have any great difficulty throwing shit about.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 03:00 AM

Debate involves responding to points made, showing evidence to back up claims and counter-claims, then raising questions to challenger the protagonist's assertions.

Now, various Guests, every time you have spouted your unfounded, popularist and devisive opinions, at least one of us has (repeated, almost to the point of tedium) taken them apart with factual evidence. But not once have any of you even attempted to answers questions that we have raised.

If you are not prepared to even attempt to follow the flow of the debate when it doesn't go your way, do the world a favour; go away, and stay away!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 04:32 AM

The TUC annual conference is being held in Liverpool next week. To coincide, a silent vigil is being arranged for Monday 14th September, from 12 noon outside the BT CONVENTION CENTRE, in Hanover Street/Peters Lane.

The vigil is part of the "Not In My Name" campaign, which emphasises the fact that the two recently elected BNP MEPs do not represent any of the people in this country, except for a tiny minority of thugs and racists.

Antifascist Mudcatters who can make it over to Liverpool will be very welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 04:57 AM

Go away anonymous guest, noone gave you permission to open your mouth

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:37 AM

I see the BNP website is announcing that its new format members' magazine will feature "easier-reading short reports on the political scene".

So even they admit the sort of dumbed-down comment their readers are likely to need.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 07:44 AM

I usually stay away from anonymous wankers like our diseased friend here. But just for once I'm going to rise to the bait. Everybody ready?

                   IGNORE THE BASTARDS!!!!!!!!


Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 04:40 AM

Ah Fred, I love reading posts like this. I just love it when tossers like you can't swallow that line " TWO SEATS IN EUROPE"
Well buddy it is FACT. We are there doughnut.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:26 AM

""I don't understand that last addition to the debate at all? Do you agree with me, or not? It doesn't make much sense.""

Ever heard of irony lass?

Of course I don't agree with you, and any one with half a brain cell still functioning would say the same.

My post referred to the fact that the fat git and his cronies between them have multiple convictions for crime (often violent).

I also referred to comments from the fat git, which are a matter of public record, in which he publicly delineated the two methods I outlined, of ridding this country of black faces, and preventing the arrival of more.

The reference to labour camps was in response to your inane comment about forcing people to work.

All of the above being methods espoused by Adolf Hitler, when HE took an interest in deciding the fate, not just of Britain, but of the whole of Europe.

If you think that such actions and aspirations are in any way likely to benefit the British People, then you have definitely lost whatever small quantity of marbles you might once have had.

NOW GO AWAY! Is that plain enough?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 11:33 AM

Georgina Boyes said "I see the BNP website is announcing that its new format members' magazine will feature "easier-reading short reports on the political scene"."

Would that be the Ladybird Books edition (lots of pictures and words of one syllable) or The Idiots Guide format?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 11:34 AM

One word comes to mind Don, cuckold.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 11:54 AM

Cuckolds All Awry

A number one hit from the seventeenth century.

Sorry that had about as much to do with this thread as our Helen's last one

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 12:02 PM

Easy reading? No compound sentences, only VERY short words and pictures for colouring in. Anything else would be too much of a strain.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 12:08 PM

GUEST,Georgina Boyes said "pictures for colouring in"

Crayola crayons only, please, BNP members aren't to be trusted with anything sharp (that would include their wits I presume)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 12:24 PM

Georgina Boyes: "Easy reading? No compound sentences, only VERY short words and pictures for colouring in. Anything else would be too much of a strain."

Georgina, Go on let me guess. You've been looking at the books they sell on the Excalibur website.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 01:43 PM

From: GUEST,Helen B. - PM
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:56 PM

Jenny Brampton, please don't even try to reason with these people, most wear blinkers, others secretly fantasise over black guys, the rest are simply too thick to hold a debate with. When they lose it here, they go onto bebo or Myspace and hassle decent folk. Very mature I must say.

That's worth its weight in gold. Who set up the FAKE Bebo and Myspace profiles? Why GUEST, Helen B. that's who!!! The idiot believes that we are as thick as her/he/it/blob/floating turd. NEWS - we ain't.

John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 02:03 PM

That master of misinformation, Joseph Goebbels would be proud of you, Helen B, what with all these fake social interaction site pages you're setting up, still it is the closest to a real friend you'll ever get

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 04:16 PM

Poor helen B

I was right.

She is losing her rag.

Just read back through this thread and anyone can see that her imagination is starting to run riot.

Any black catters out there better lock up your sons as she has started ranting deleriously about secret lusts for black men ...

... though lets face it - no man iin his right mind would touch her with someone elses ...

She has then randomly thrown the word "cuckold" into the mix without giving any further explanation of what point she is making.


Where is Freud when you need him? He'd know how to make the most out of this situation ...

... I mean Clement Freud of course ...


You see hun, the rest of us on here don't share your twisted fear and fascination with the sexuality of people of African descent.

The closest I can get to your distorted psychotic nightmare is to say that I have been seeing a black girl on and off for the last 8 months or so and from time to time I do indeed become fixated on her sexual attributes - and let me tell you that this is because she is as cute as can be!

The rest of the time I enjoy her other good qualities, her kindness, her emotional and intellectual intelligence, her generosity and affectionate nature, her honesty and consideration and of course her sweet ass ... er ... I mean eyes ... :-)

Maybe one of these days you will possess one of these qualities.

What you dish out as an insult is perceived by people on here as a bizarre fixation of yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 04:16 PM

"TWO SEATS IN EUROPE"

That's two asses out of England, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 04:29 PM

Well, apparently there are people in Europe or are more acceting of THOSE sorts of people (BNP members that is)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 04:52 PM

And why would anything to do with England concern you Bruce Murdoch I believe you live in Canada. You don't have a vote in the UK. I imagine it's the title BNP that attracts you to these threads. Does it remind you of Canada ?(Bears Not People).

Refill your glass like a chap and reflect on those days when people knew you and your music or when you were a fireman. Spoke to a guy recently who knew you from your Fire Service days. Do you ever reflect on them ? must say it was a very long time ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:01 PM

Hey helen - Guess what ...

... soon the doors of the BNP will be openbed to whoever wants to join. by Law.

When that happens your ilk will be swamped by hundreds of thousands of British Nationals of all colours creeds and sexualities.


And I will be among the first to campaign for the inclusion of Canadians onto the lists as Canada is a proud member of the commonwealth.

Together, the determination of British Nationals and those in the commonwealth who care about the British Nation, will combine to create a party that participates in the Pride March, the Notting Hill Carnival and Canada day, run by pluralist open minded folks who make it their job to rid British Politics of the Hatred and Bigotry that you represent.


And there is nothing that you can do about it!!


Now suck on that while your husband watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:09 PM

Round and round we go. Has anyone else noticed that our unwelcomed guest always return to topics that have already been discussed with the heat gets too hot?

I'm sure that other people besides me realize that they do so not only to get the heat off of them but in the hope of engaging people in energy wasting exercises.

We've already pointed out to those who were open to that information that the fight against fascism is NOT just for Britons.

I don't live in Great Britain either, and I am proud to say that I am a member of Folk Against Fascism.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM

GUEST,Helen B. prattles, "And why would anything to do with England concern you Bruce Murdoch I believe you live in Canada."

Unfortunately, GUEST,Helen B, your sort, racist bigoted low-lives, are a world-wide problem, and Canada has had more than its fair share of inhumanity towards its indigenous peoples, but you being so anti non white would probably have cheered as native children were hauled of to the residential schools and tld that unless they embraced the white way of life they would live their lives as less than nothings, and beaten if they didn't do what they were told, they were sexually abused as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:15 PM

Helen, you're a lying twat. You spoke with no one from 'when I was a firefighter'.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:16 PM

She's just pushing buttons to wind people up..

Try putting your grubby little fingers somewhere else to get your kicks, dear.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:17 PM

I think the firefighter bit is an extension to her fantasy ...

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:19 PM

Traditional 'Border' fire fighting?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:20 PM

Guys, she still gives BJs at a pound per.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:21 PM

Nah, I'll stick with the goat.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:23 PM

LOL

From what I heard, you're better off with the goat.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:24 PM

And you can eat it when it gets too old to be attractive.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:25 PM

She's ugly inside. I don't believe for a second she has a husband. There are some kinds of ugly no man would care to be around. She exemplifies that kind of ugly.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:28 PM

But she DOES like those big hoses....

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: greensue
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:31 PM

I have just read the last few, what has the thread title got to do with the content?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:31 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: greensue
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:32 PM

Or vica verca

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:35 PM

Greensue: NOTHING.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:35 PM

greensue says"I have just read the last few, what has the thread title got to do with the content?"
It does and doesn't have anything to do with the thread tile.It has nothing to do with the legal aspects, BUT it does have to do with making fun of the BNP and BNP types, oh, and pulling apart the lies and BS that they try to feed us


and Helen B DOES like pulling things; don't you Helen, dearie?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:35 PM

BNP people have stolen the identities of about 10-12 people from Mudcat and abused/misused their names on Facebook. Forget the thread title. We're on a lawsuit against the BNP. And it's going to get uglier. Maybe not as ugly as Helen, but ugly for all that.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:37 PM

Helen ?
Hats off to him/her; exemplary drills from the fascist activists' handbook - and as a result an awful lot of energy is being spent chasing smoke here.
Nearly 500 posts now, and it's not altogether edifying.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:40 PM

No but it is fun, don't you think, and having fun at the expense of the BNP cheers me up ever so much :-P

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:51 PM

As I said 100 years ago, it gives one chance to mock the afflicted without actually transgressing the rules of political correctness.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:53 PM

From: GUEST,Did Someone Fart? - PM
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:39 PM

"Spoke to a guy recently who knew you from your Fire Service days. Do you ever reflect on them ? must say it was a very long time ago."

Must feel good to know one has given real time in ones life to serve the community?

Do tell us of all the selfless community work you?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, twit.
Then again some people can do, and some people sit round and can't do, or won't do.
I mean how many times and name changes are there going to be with this troll. I'm not a violent person, Troll, but in your case I could make an exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:07 PM

Ladies and gents: Helen B ain't worth the sweat from your armpits. PLEASE don't argue with each other. Helen B is the supreme asshole on this thread. Don't fight 'it' for the title.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:10 PM

Fire Department positions in Canada are paid employment, not exactly community volunteer services.

"BNP people have stolen the identities of about 10-12 people from Mudcat and abused/misused their names on Facebook. Forget the thread title. We're on a lawsuit against the BNP"

Please correct that Bruce, people known to me are being tormented on social sites by "huggies". One gentleman in Idaho is closing his page due to comments from the like of you.

Good luck with your lawsuit, I could be wrong, but you will probably require at least 12,000 big ones to get the ball rolling.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:16 PM

"Fire Department positions in Canada are paid employment"

Apart from the volunteers ...



Huggies ...?


isn't that a brand of Nappies/Diapers?



You should ask someone literate to help you write a novel ...

.. it would be surreal but very entertaining!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:17 PM

Put the bottle down, Helen. You just get worse when you're plastered--which seems to be most of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:17 PM

Helen B. says, "people known to me are being tormented on social sites by "huggies". One gentleman in Idaho is closing his page due to comments from the like of you."

One simple phrase girlie...Stop telling lies, I personally hate liars.
Now, you're dismissed, be on your way.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:19 PM

Helen is delusional. Alcohol does that to 'her'.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:38 PM

I was curious about the firefighting system in Canada and decided to google that topic.

For the record, (and this is for Mudcatters and welcomed guests and NOT for this thread's unwelcome guests), here's some information about Canada's volunteer fire fighters:

"In rural Canada, neighbours help one another and look out for each other. In more than 3,500 communities across the country, neighbours may one day be called on to risk their lives for each other.

They are volunteer firefighters, the more than 120,000 men and women who answer the call day or night with fearless dedication.

Last month, Canada Post recognized the efforts of these selfless heroes with a commemorative stamp in their honour. The 48- cent stamp went on sale at post offices across Canada at the end of last month.

Those of us who live in large cities like Toronto might not realize that 85 per cent of the firefighters in Canada are volunteers and they protect 80 per cent of the communities in this country.

Volunteer firefighters are well-trained and their capabilities extend to handling fires in highrise buildings, shopping malls and industrial sites, as well as the family home, farm or local school.

In addition, they are often called upon to tend to the injured at accidents, search for missing children, provide emergency medical treatment or teach public safety.

While no longer found in most major Canadian cities, volunteer fire departments remain active in small towns and rural areas. Of the 4,000 fire departments across Canada, about 3,500 are manned by volunteers.

Volunteer firefighters are the first line defenders against many community dangers, according to Mike Walsh, president of the Canadian Volunteer Fire Services Association. "They answer the call every day," he said, "literally putting their lives on the line for the people of their community."

At the Ottawa ceremony unveiling the stamp, Steven Mahoney, secretary of state whose portfolio includes Canada Post, offered his praise. "Volunteer firefighters are trusted members of many Canadian communities. Service to a volunteer unit often means countless hours away from family as they perform their duties. The commitment shown by these men and women to the protection of their neighbours, their community, and their country, is unparalleled."

The new Canada Post stamp pictures three images that reflect the urgency of the situation volunteer firefighters encounter when responding to a call, with a central image of a firefighter carrying a child to safety."...

http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=50239


-snip-

And, in case some may think that a seven year old article doesn't reflect the situation today, see these two excerpts from:

N.L. firefighter describes terror of losing own home to flames
Posted by HalifaxHooligan on Sep 10, 2009 @ 10:38AM

Snippet:
CENTREVILLE, NL - A volunteer firefighter who watched as fire destroyed his own home this week says what he and his wife went through was a nightmare...[ read more ]

Source: CBC.ca (click for full story) Post a Comment

Firefighters rescued from restaurant blaze
Posted by HalifaxHooligan on Sep 10, 2009 @ 10:37AM

Snippet:
SARNIA, ON - People in this town of 4,000 on the southern shore of Georgian Bay were relieved two volunteer firefighters survived a stubborn pre-dawn fire that gutted a prized restaurant...[ read more ]

http://www.firehall.com/

[italics added by me for highlighting]

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:41 PM

Thanks Bruce and thanks to your fellow volunteer firefighters & first responders for all you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:43 PM

Are you jealous of her, Helen?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:49 PM

Helen, I love you - will you have my children?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:17 PM

Thank you, Azizi. Very kind of you.

BTW, I don't think "Helen B" would actually mind an Afro-English (or Asian or Indian or . . .) person helping 'her' out of a fire or MVC. Fact is, the firefighter wouldn't consider whether or not she's racist. Makes one's stomach want to heave to think of good people putting it on the line for garbage like her.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:22 PM

No point in wasting your time providing he/she/it with factual evidence, he/she/it will only deny it.   A bit like the way BNP deny the holocaust.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:31 PM

Criticising firefighters - paid or not?
Maybe we've at last found the answer to the question - 'How low can you get?'.

Pathetic. And desperate to get attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:35 PM

I did not say that. I simply remarked on the fact that he held a paid position. Before you attempt to make him a saint, all of us do jobs for a salary, his was no different. Better still why did he leave it. Now that was interesting !

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:46 PM

I think they all get paid in this country - what does it matter? Would you do it? I, for one, don't mind admitting I'd be last in the queue for that job.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:24 PM

YOU are a liar, Helen B. BUT, you WILL have your day in court.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:34 PM

Hope to 12,000 big ones. Try a law firm that is willing to foot the bill until we get a settlement. They will keep a percentage and so will we. More importantly, the real-life names of the shite involved will be known to the general public--including the general public in YOUR country. You goin' down. And so's your so-called party.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:46 PM

There are obvious ways in which a community of entertainers can raise money if necessary. However, it will ultimately be up to the Court to decide who actually pays the costs.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:00 PM

I've just concluded that Helen B is none other than the reincarnation of Lady Macbeth. I expect she may have had spawn, but I'd guess by her posts that she ate them as they hatched. God, what an ugly person 'she' is.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:02 PM

Good night, "Helen B". May you choke on your own bile.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:28 PM

The face of racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 11:03 PM

Darn it, now the goat's been sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:59 AM

The Scotsman has now picked this story up:

Sue Wilson article

Looks like Wilson hasn't done a lot more than read Mudcat threads to research that (or maybe look at the Facebook stuff, which I haven't seen), but a useful contribution anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:36 AM

Jason Pearson 11 September at 08:20 Reply
The English Defence League in Harrow Tonight.

Hi, I've been asked to give just a word about a protest by the EDL against a mosque in Harrow today. If you are not aware, they EDL claim to be a protest group against Islamification. This usually involves picking fights and against non Whites etc. The EDL appears to have been set up by BNP members (and domains registered by BNP members) and consists of the Football hooligans and 'casual's, the sort of fine open minded persons such as the Millwall 'fans' (apologies to real Millwall fans) who brought havoc and violence to the streets of Hull last year.

The National Union Journalist has also noted the threats the EDL have made against journalists, even though the point of protests is to gain as much publicity as possible.
(http://www.nuj.org.uk/innerPagenuj.html?docid=1334). The EDL openly state "….anyone taking photos or filming our members, unless we have invited them, SHOULD BE TREATED AS A HOSTILE.". The EDL call independent press 'Scum'.

Why are they so hostile to an independent and free press.
Jeremy Dear, NUJ General Secretary, said: "We also have a name for photographers who expose fascist thugs – we call them excellent journalists.Our members work hard to ensure people have access to independent reports and images of public events. Photographers should be free to take pictures without intimidation."


Anyway, if anyone can, please join the counter protest against the EDL at Harrow mosque today at 5pm. As always, keep it peaceful and calm.


Also, if you are not already members, you may also want to join these FB groups.

The United Peoples Party
http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?id=1232131029#/group.php?gid=35154413613
a new group and new political party.

The Facebook Anti-Nazi http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?id=1232131029#/group.php?gid=101157579371
A new group focusing on anti fascism

Petition to remove the BNP Facebook App. http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?id=1232131029#/group.php?gid=126299952487
The BNP have made an application for face book, where you can donate small amounts of money. I urge you all to join.


Thanks!




i just got this message on FB and thought it worthy of passing it on.

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:03 AM

Jack Campin's link is the same as the Closed Thread that Tug the Cox started !

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 02:25 PM

"Perhaps one day, once by being rather more subtle we've got ourselves in a position where we control the British broadcasting media, then perhaps one day the British people might change their mind and say, "Yes, every last one must go." Perhaps they will one day, but if you offer that as your sole aim to start with, you're gonna get absolutely nowhere. So, instead of talking about racial purity, we talk about identity."

Part of Nick Griffin's address to the Ku Klux Klan in 2000. In other words, don't reveal your true intentions until you're able to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:20 PM

"Colclough"

How is that name pronounced?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:28 PM

So we are experiencing the BNP's subtlety at the moment then..?

It's not really working, is it?

Peace - 'Kollcluff', I should think, if it's English.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:34 PM

Thanks, Smokey.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 05:01 PM

Ah - an English rose..

Rose, like the scum in dirty bathwater.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 10:20 AM

Re my message of a few days ago about a silent vigil at the TUC Liverpool Conference. Far from being just the handful of anti-fascists I was expecting, what looked like the entire conference came out to join us. The media were there in force and hopefully the sea of placards and banners will make some impact in tomorrow's papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM

I was extremely disappointed the other day to be on the underground in London , when I looked over the shoulder of a man reading the Daily Telegraph.

He was reading an article about the English Defence League (an organization which appears to have been formed by rival football firms clubbing together to 'combat' radical islamist violence etc etc) and how they had decided to picket a mosque on friday after prayers, at the end of ramadan, on september the 11th.

Here's the story.

The headline in the Telegraph?

"Police attacked at Muslim Riot"

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 05:39 PM

It was not a "Muslim Riot" it was something calling itself the English Defence League poking it's nose in where it wasn't wanted, they'd already done much the same thing in Birmingham.
These folk are those who tar and feather all followers of Islam with the same brush. It would be like saying all Christians are the same as the Christian far-right, in the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 05:43 PM

Guest 14 Sep 09 - 05:33 PM I see that you are content to ape Nazi propaganda style too as well as embrace Hitler's doctrines.


"like most things about Muslims....Rats nothing more or nothing less."

'The Nazi film "The Eternal Jew," served to dehumanize the German Jews. The film "The Eternal Jew" itself compares the Jewish people to rats.
By dehumanizing Jews, the Nazi leaders began to prepare for Hitler's "Final Solution."
The Nazi leaders knew that when the deportations began it would be much easier for the German people to watch friends and neighbors shipped away if they associated them with rats or with age-old stereotypes about cheating with money.
The propaganda was able to play off the existing racial difficulties in Germany has well as to enhance the original nationalistic pride of the German people that they were somehow chosen or holy.'

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 06:05 PM

Anonymous guest

Nobody gave you permission to open your foul mouth... go aw.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 08:35 AM

Interestingly, over on fakebook, Sam Hudson has written on Helen Butcher's wall congratulating her on coming over here and wiping the floor with us in debate. Yeah right!


The latest two-syllable word they have learned is, it seems "cuckold" - but they don't seem to have mastered its meaning yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 07:52 PM

They seem to have a rather creative definition of the word 'debate' too. The only things wiping the floor around here are their knuckles.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:50 AM

Anti-fascist 'catters will probably have heard that the English Defence League is planning to turn yet another city centre into a no go area for law abiding respectability.

This time the venue is central Manchester, and the date planned is October 10th.

Hope Not Hate, which successfully campaigned to prevent the EDL marching against Luton Muslims, is now asking people to petition the Home Secretary to take similar action in Manchester.

You can lend your weight to the petition by visiting
Hope Not Hate .

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 09:47 AM

Here's a quick update on my previous message about the English Defence League's proposed march in Manchester. I've since heard on the lunchtime news that this crowd of crabs and creeps is not planning a march after all. They're planning a static demonstration. While the Home Secretary can ban marches, he can't ban static demonstrations.

Even so, I strongly advise people to sign the petition anyway. We need to get the law changed, and fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 02:00 PM

Good eye, Owen.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 02:17 PM

Whether the Home Secretary can ban the demonstration or not, it is obvious that the people want it banned. When I signed this morning, I think I was the 349th person to do so. I looked a minute or so ago, and that number had grown to 1948.

But don't let that deter you from signing.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:02 PM

My thought is that groups like the EDL - being as they are composed of exactly the angry skinhead style blokes that the BNP are so fervently trying to dump in their push for greater popular acceptance - represent far more of a problem to the far-right itself, than they do anyone else.

Even so, while I do not condone their intentionally inflammatory tactics, I can't condone trying to silencing their voice - they have a right to say what they will.

That's England to me - and as a believer in the rights of expression of the 'fringe voice' myself, I like to also be free to like or to lump its expression, as I will.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:56 PM

There is a bizarre twist to the tale of the EDL which is that though it is true that they have been spotted doing the Nazi salute and they are made up from the ranks of city football firms, I believe that I read recently that their ranks are not exclusively white, but that members with brown and black skin have been photographed.

This correlates with experiences that I've had where I have overheard Asian lads and white lads bad mouthing N*****s and also White Girls and Black lads together bad mouthing P***s.

There are some weird anomalies to this whole issue that leave me utterly confused.

In this case it seems clear however that it is a case of Footie firms finding a pseudo-political excuse to bash somebody/anybody and that while there is a link to the BNP they are not one and the same entity.

Tough I have no doubt that the BNP are relishing it for 2 reasons.

1. it gets racist agenda's onto the news.

2. It allows then to take the role of moral reasonable arbiters and interpreters of public discontent etc.

Interesting development, though I suspect in the long run not especially challenging if people keep their heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:57 PM

They can and will the streets of Britain, they are British. Every other kind of third world aids victim, muslim bomber, anti British army raghead and do gooder seem to think they can get away with it. Chance is on it's way.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:19 PM

thanks owen, i have just signed it and posted it onto facebook.

although i have no wish to silence anyone. i am all for freedom of speech, what i really want is saftey in the streets.

i have to admit to being a coward, as i live very close to manchester, but i am scared to go, i am a carer and have like most people have responsibilities(?) at home. i do not want to go and get hurt and not be able to do what i have to do.

as much as i would love to go and show my contempt.
i am ashamed of my fear. why should i be scared to go and show that i am against such groups?... because violence is the only language these thugs know or understand and respect.

saying aloud what you believe in and kicking the shit out of someone to prove it are two very different things. it is the latter i have the problem with. as i am sure you all do.

so to everyone who is more brave than i am, and goes to manchester. good luck and i wish you all saftey and success.

please forgive my cowardice?

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:31 PM

"Manchester City Council calls on Home Secretary to ban English Defence League rally"

From 24dash.com today

"A city centre rally by right-wing protesters next month should be banned by the Home Secretary, council chiefs said today.

Manchester City Council, faith groups and traders have joined to make the request

The city council says it is powerless to stop the planned rally in Manchester on Saturday October 10 and wants Alan Johnson to intervene and halt the event.

Councillor Jim Battle, deputy leader of Manchester City Council, said: "Wherever the so-called English Defence League have gone, there has been violence and disruption to ordinary people who just want to go about their business.

"These people do not have a legitimate cause - they merely wish to vilify, insult, intimidate and provoke one section of our community.
That isn't protest or legitimate democratic debate and it certainly is

The Dean of Manchester, the Very Rev Rogers Govender, said: "Manchester Cathedral is currently hosting an exhibition commemorating Anne Frank, who as a Jewish victim of the Holocaust experienced prejudice and racial hatred.

"The exhibition tackles contemporary issues such as bullying, racism and intolerance head-on and we are proud to demonstrate our support for the values of tolerance and inclusion of which Manchester is rightly proud.

"The English Defence League's plans to march in Manchester are a direct threat to those values and we stand in solidarity with those who reject their agenda of division."

Kate Harrison, chief executive of Cityco, which represents city traders,
said: "Saturday afternoon is a particularly busy time and our priority is to manage the city centre so families can come and enjoy themselves without disturbance.

The Home Office said neither the police nor the Home Secretary had the power to ban static demonstrations or assemblies, unless trespassing was involved.

A Home Office spokesperson said: "The police are responsible for making the decisions on how to facilitate peaceful protest. They must take into consideration responsibilities such as public safety, public order, the prevention of crime and the protection of the rights of others to go about their lawful business.

"Violent activity and incitement to religious and racial hatred are totally unacceptable and the police have powers to deal robustly with any such activities that take place at a demonstration, which is why the Government is committed to supporting the operational decisions of the chief police officers on the best steps necessary to maintain public safety and prevent serious public disorder."

- sorry about the cut and paste but it wasn't possible to post a link

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:36 PM

?????
Can you say that again in English? Don't bother.. unless you
are prepared to answer one teeny weeny simple question......


Is David Copeland a Muslim......

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:43 PM

The previous post was to the illiterate guest.

To everyone else.

I am surprised that the EDL organisers have not been convicted of incitement. Harrow demonstrated the effects of incitement. What they were doing is no different from extremists from another religion descending on a parish church during midnight mass at Chroistmas or Good Friday.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:35 PM

Be fair SPB-C.

Poor daft Sam can't help it. Somebody else is using the BNP shared brain cell tonight.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:54 PM

But Don,

According to reports from Richard, Sam and Emma are wiping the floor with us ...

... tsk ...

... are you acting the goat again?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:56 PM

...oops ...


Sorry Emma ... I meant Sam and Helen ...


... I'll get my Anorak ...

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:56 PM

Phew! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 06:03 PM

To walk, or to chew gum?

Maybe Helen Butcher has it. If anyone has Billy Bragg's email, tell him that Helen Butcher is a fan of his fakebook profile: he may want to delete her or worse.

Or it could be Justin Van den Heever, or Leah Green, or Gareth Mark Baugh - or Adonf Hitleric who I think may have been deleted.

Speaking of Leah Green (not my cup of meat), does anyone remember that Captain Beefheart album?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 06:46 PM

"please forgive my cowardice?" [Jeddy]

That's not cowardice Jade, it's getting your priorities right. I was a carer for many years and it's one of those things you have to actually experience to fully understand the level of commitment and sacrifice involved. You have my greatest respect.

I can see the Barmy Brigade getting quite an interesting reception in Manchester, but then that's no doubt what they're after. My advice to anyone would be to stay away. Manchester aint Codnor..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 12:55 AM

This is what Sam means by debate. As he can't answer any questions put to him, then resort to slander/libel.

If anyone wants to carry out a CRB check on me, I will happily sign the paperwork!

In the meantime - I demand that you back up this allegation. Publish on this site the dates of any convictions, which court these convictions took place, the outcome.

(if it is any help I admit to receiving 4 parking tickets between 1986 and 2003, apart from that I have no convictions whatsoever, not even for speeding).

Otherwise - I want a public apology for defamation.


Sam Hudson Hi Helen

I was very distressed to read on Myspace that the clown
posting on Mudcat Cafe under the name of "SPB-Cooperator" has a coupe
of convictions for "kiddyfiddling". Why oh why does Joe or Max allow
such people on the site ? Pass it on. Tell Paul in Ealing and Leah in
Chiswick.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 03:21 AM

That is actually defamatory and actionable. Take a screenshot and seek legal advice soonest. First interview with a solicitor is free and, although there's no legal aid for libel, you may find a lawyer willing to do some pro-bono work at least on the foothills of the case.
And tell Facebook you are taking legal advice.
Incredible the desperate measures to which these scum will resort, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 09:26 AM

"They can and will the streets of Britain, they are British. Every other kind of third world aids victim, muslim bomber, anti British army raghead and do gooder seem to think they can get away with it. Chance is on it's way."

Sam, have you ever thought how much good you could do the rest of the world by immersing your head in a freshly filled sewage tank for about 5 minutes?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 09:37 AM

If they're resorting to those sorts of tactics on facebook, they must really be getting desperate. Having looked at these turds' facebook pages, the phrase "Billy-Nomates" springs to mind. What a sad bunch of delusionals; no wonder no-one wants to have anything to do with them except a few other sick social misfits. If this is the cream of BNP membership, we've nothing to worry about.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 10:26 AM

It's just been suggested to me that drowning Sam/Helen/Daily Mail Reader-and-all-the-other-appelations-in-between, in a tankful of shite woud be a waste of perfectly good shite. This may be true, but it certainly wouldn't be a waste of perfectly good Sam.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 09:39 PM

SPB,
you have our support, and we know that it was a very cheap shot.
i know that is what we have come to expect from them, but that is going too far!!!!!!!! if you can trace who wrote it, go for it and take them down.

if we here can do anything to help (although i am not sure what)
let us know, i am fairly sure i am saying what everyone on here is thinking.

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 07:52 AM

The petition against the English Defence League demonstration, which I mentioned a couple of days ago now has 3,122 signatures.

If you haven't already done so, you can sign it at Hope Not Hate

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 02:02 PM

The Folk Against Fascism site is now up and running. View it Here

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 02:57 PM

NICE website! Cheers to the guys who put it together, good show and all that :)

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 04:22 PM

thanks for the links owen.
i thought we wold get an email saying it was up and running? oh well i know about it now, i might post i to facebook too.

take care all

jade x x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 04:45 PM

A good start in the FaF Blog from Jon Boden...thank goodness at least one person is talking sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 06:46 PM

""But Don,

According to reports from Richard, Sam and Emma are wiping the floor with us ...

... tsk ...

... are you acting the goat again?""

NO MATE! The goat's dormant. Where d'ye think they nicked that braincell from?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM

I don't normally do the cut'n paste thing, but I thought this was worth airing for those who still believe the BNP are simply another political party. The last couple of paragraphs give a particularly telling insight into their mindset.

""'BNP spells danger for disabled people'
Sunil Peck

The BNP's success in European elections will be disastrous for disabled people, activists have warned.
BNP leader Nick Griffin was elected to represent the North West region while Andrew Brons won the seat for Yorkshire and Humber in the June 4 elections to the European Parliament.
Activist and campaigner Richard Rieser branded the BNP a fascist party and said that its electoral success was a result of large numbers of disillusioned Labour supporters failing to vote.
He said that disabled people in areas represented by the BNP would be afraid because fascists wanted to kill disabled people.
"The fascist record on dealing with disabled people is to kill us. They're Holocaust deniers but I haven't noticed them denying that disabled people were killed en masse in Germany."
Julie Newman, Acting Chair of the UK's Disabled People's Council, said she could only think that a party denying the Holocaust would deny disabled people the right to exist too.
She said: "I think there's a eugenics agenda because they want to get rid of anybody who taints the bloodline. I think that anybody who's different from the BNP's purist agenda is going to have a difficult time."
Alice Maynard, Chair of disability charity Scope, said that black and ethnic-minority disabled people already endured considerable discrimination which she doubted would
improve with the election of BNP politicians.
"One feels that the BNP's approach to race is the negative bit, but I don't think that disability is ever far behind. There are serious issues around the genetic agenda."
All three campaigners said that they hoped the success of the BNP would serve as a rallying call to disabled people to ally with anti-fascist and anti-racist organisations.
In May, the Observer newspaper reported that Jeffrey Marshall, senior organiser for the BNP's London European election campaign, had posted a message on an internet forum in which he commented on the death of David Cameron's disabled son Ivan.
According to the Observer, Mr Marshall said: "We live in a country today which is unhealthily dominated by an excess of sentimentality towards the weak and unproductive. No good will come of it."
The Observer article said that later, in response to comments made by others on the site, Marshall is alleged to have written: "There is not a great deal of point in keeping these people alive after all."
The Observer added that Mr Marshall said the comments were private and some had been paraphrased and taken out of context. The paper said that he had admitted making the former comment but said he could not recall making the latter one.""


Chilling isn't it?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 07:13 PM

I indirectly work with people with learning disability, and the last post sums up why I will oppose BNP and other fascist groups to my last breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 07:18 PM

and everyone.... idf you ever get the chance visit Auswitz and see the display case of artificial limbs of people that were exterminated because of their disability.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 07:18 PM

Don T.

I had hoped you would honour the ceasefire agreement and allow everyone their viewpoint without receiving crap. It would appear you have been engaged in activities that could jeopardize this agreement.

To be fair, I do believe that nasty comments against the BNP have apparently decreased in recent days, a trend that we hope will continue.

There also have been credible reports from friends that the "band of three" have been making negative comments on other sites, this could undermine the trust needed to move from a cessation of hostilities to a lasting peace among us in which everyone's views are respected and understood.

On the other hand, if your friends choose the path of peace, ends its reliance on verbal attacks, accepts that silencing the BNP is both unattainable and unnecessary, and honours democratic and ones right to a viewpoint we will respond positively.

We urge you and Richard to take advantage of the ceasefire accord, and talk to Bruce to negotiate a permanent settlement of this exchange.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 07:30 PM

YES, Don T. This is the thing I've tried to highlight with working class acquaintances, who support the BNP purely because they believe that we should restrict immigration.

Restricting immmigration is but one thing, as all developed countries have restrictions on immigration. But these people simply don't realise the vast amount of other associated legislation the BNP propose to introduce.

In fact I get totally sick of these threads sometimes. I *know* the people the BNP target. They're NOT all die hard racists, many of them are simply people who are afraid their country is turning to shit and see no other option because no other fucker is listening to them. They THINK (because of years of propaganda) it's because 'foreign' people come here.

They aren't all skins and they aren't all illiterate Sam & chums, they're ordinary working class people who feel scared. THIS is what frightens ME! It would be wise for politicians and political commentators - and indeed the educated working classes who know better, to start genuinely heeding the anxieties of the less well educated masses, or start to suffer mass voting for the far-right.

If that happens, we're all totally and utterly fucked. It could happen like a domino effect. There are more than enough disaffected ordinary people out there, to make it happen in but a few short years...

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 07:34 PM

On the other hand, if your friends choose the path of peace, ends its reliance on verbal attacks, accepts that silencing the BNP is both unattainable and unnecessary, and honours democratic and ones right to a viewpoint we will respond positively.

Or in other words, you're not actually anything to do with the BNP, and now you're bored because you aren't getting the response you wanted.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:18 AM

In exchange for being allowed to leave Austria in 1938, Sigmund Freud was required to sign a document showing that he had been treated well by the incoming Nazis - he signed adding "I can most highly recommend the Gestapo to everyone."

His sarcasm was, apparently, lost on the assembled thugs at the time and it seems their followers here are still demanding that we ignore their poisoned theories and only say nice things about them. It wasn't acceptable then and it isn't acceptable now.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:48 AM

Of course the whole eugenics idea is ironic in the case of the BNP, given the low intelligence and general poor quality of their rank and file. As a farmer, they're not exactly what I'd choose to boost the flock.
There also have been credible reports from friends that the "band of three" have been making negative comments on other sites, this could undermine the trust needed to move from a cessation of hostilities to a lasting peace among us in which everyone's views are respected and understood.

On the other hand, if your friends choose the path of peace, ends its reliance on verbal attacks, accepts that silencing the BNP is both unattainable and unnecessary, and honours democratic and ones right to a viewpoint we will respond positively.
Sanctimonious, pompous bollocks, the hypocrisy of which beggars belief when put alongside the filth that 'Sam Hudson", the ludicrous 'Leah' and their cronies in the BNP have been publishing.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 02:22 PM

Apparently this so-called "ceasefire" existed only in what Guest Sam and his or her cronies call theur minds (I use the term loosely). This ceasefire will exist in reality, only when the BNP ceases to exist, until then, it's business as usual

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 02:31 PM

you aren't getting the response you wanted

Or are you?
Either way, I can't see the BNP giving you any medals..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:54 PM

I've heard all the insults before, and from better people than you could ever hope to be, Sam or what ever your real name is . As I said, there is no truce, no ceasefire, nothing, except the extermination of the festering sore called the BNP. If you have a problem with that Sam, ot whatever your real name is, my suggestion is that you do something about it. I've faced off on this issue (racism, fascism) and other issues against better people, articulate people, something you'll never be. You dont like people who support anti-racism and ant-fascism and I don't like racists and fascists. Thus it shall ever be enemy mine. We will win, have no dount about that. Enjoy your day in the sun while you are able.........

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:59 PM

On the other hand, if your friends choose the path of peace, ends its reliance on verbal attacks, accepts that silencing the BNP is both unattainable and unnecessary, and honours democratic and ones right to a viewpoint we will respond positively.

Sam, you appear to true to the BNP stereotype whereby the only rights to a viewpoint, and the only viewpoints with rights to be heard, are yours.

By your own assertion, all people are entitled to hold a view that sees the BNP as a vile bunch of of racist, fascists or feckless malcontents; as you are equally entitled to hold and express a contrary view.

I haven't seen anyone trying to silence your views; in fact I haven't really seen you propose a view. Rather you just keep bullying people into not criticising "der Fuhrer" and "der Reich" which just proves all the accusations levelled against the BNP and many of its members.

Interesting that in your post you have explicitly admitted to being involved in the cyber harrassment and bullying against some people here. That would appear to provide actionable grounds against you and grounds which, according to recent UK high court determinations, would require Mudcat.org to release your IP details regardless of Mudcat's own jurisdiction. Well done.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 04:38 PM

If 'Guest' posters were clearly warned in advance that by posting they were agreeing to the possibility that their i.p. address might be displayed with their post, they might be a little more reticent in their rantings.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 04:41 PM

Smokey,
I know with Wikipedia, if you edit an entry without logging in as a member your IP is collected

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 04:48 PM

Indeed, and the i.p. addresses of non-member editors are there for all to see. Nothing illegal about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 04:58 PM

I can hear young Sam or whatever its name is moaning about how civil liberies will infringed on if the collection of ips at Mudcat ever happened. This from someone who would deny the civil rights of a whole swath of people, ehnics, non whites, the disabled, the unemployed, anyone who disagrees with BNP policy or Sam or whatever its name is point of view

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:20 PM

This from the same 'Sam' who has accused Mudcatters who have spoken out against the BNP of 'kiddyfiddling', being 'pervs' and interested in 'dogging'.
it does suggest that the sad bloke behind all this is no stranger to one-handed surfing and is a little too fond of the grubbier side of life. Typical BNP, really.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:31 PM

Gervas I saw that disgusting outburst...if we could find out who this SOB is a date in court wouldn't be unheard of, but whoever it is hides behind the guest name simply because they are a coward, probably run a mile if confronted in the street by any of us Catters.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:43 PM

And what's wrong with being a pervert anyway, might I ask?
On behalf of a friend, obviously.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:44 PM

On behalf of a friend? But of course; who else would you be asking for? *LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:46 PM

Er.. just a bloke in the pub..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:51 PM

Some complete stranger walks up to you at the pub and asked you to canvass Catters on what's wrong in being a pervet....

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:58 PM

That's why I rarely go in pubs; they just confuse me.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 06:01 PM

I can quite understand that.....

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 06:11 PM

Well, I'm damned if I can....

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 06:18 PM

I would be thoroughly confused if odd people in pubs walked up to me and asked what's wrong in being a pervert....

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 06:32 PM

Me too.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 06:32 PM

600

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:24 PM

"Instead of repeating this tripe, you should be recalling our positive, empowering moments in British history."


Great Idea Sam.


You get the Ball rolling ...


... And now Sam will list the BNP's history of positive empowering moments in British History ...

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:25 PM

The British Nazi Party is still trying to recruit people on Mudcat. You folks sure do have shit for brains.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 08:10 PM

you should be recalling our positive, empowering moments in British history

Well, that kind of leaves the rest of the evening free - anyone for a spot of dogging?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 08:33 PM

And his last paragraph is from here.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:50 PM

It is necessary to support the fight against anti BNP types, of which one could find no more pungent exemplar than the few immediate posts above from posters I refer to as "Latter-day Saints" who have only found their voice over the past few days.. One has to look past the monkey to the organ grinder for answers, so understand if I care to ignore you.

Of course, the Monkey may indeed feel they have something to contribute, but you are not people known to me.

A few of you are you preoccupied with the BNP. A few others saw sense and stopped their replay of insults towards a legitimate party. It's hard to understand why you do it. Instead of opening up your mind to what the BNP can do for you Instead you continue to cue up silly boring rants, like a VCR running the same scene over and over.


I honestly think you should be doing just the opposite. Instead of repeating this tripe, you should be recalling our positive, empowering moments in British history.


Also, I did not know it was a requisite requirement to have a degree in English for posting. Your clear divisiveness will not stop me promoting the true facts about the BNP. We have as much time as you do and enough desire also.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 12:55 AM

It is necessary to support the fight against anti BNP types, of which one could find no more pungent exemplar than the few immediate posts above from posters I refer to as "Latter-day Saints" who have only found their voice over the past few days.. One has to look past the monkey to the organ grinder for answers, so understand if I care to ignore you. - Sam


"It feels necessary to support the fight against the smelly little orthodoxies, of which one could find no more pungent exemplar than the diminutive Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. But I suppose one should look past the monkey to the organ grinder, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei." - Richard T Kelly here.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 04:02 AM

Let's choose some good examples for 'Sam' to ponder - Mary Seacole, the Battle of Cable Street, the founding of the NHS, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the Polish pilots in the Battle of Britain (nice to see the BNP's own goal in having a picture of a Polish Spitfire in its campaign material)...
No English degree required, 'Sam'. However, an ability to remove your head from your rectum and look at the real world does help.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 05:29 AM

Here's a few more great empowering moments in British history.
The Jarrow Crusade
The International Brigade
The Kinder Scout trespass
The Spithead mutiny
The Burston School strike
The WW1 unofficial Christmas truce
The peasant's revolt
The General Strike.

But perhaps Sam would prefer to remember the Cawnpore massacre, the Amritsa massacre, the massacre of the Scots after Culloden, the brutal suppression of the 1798 rebellion, the Irish potato famine, the Black Acts, the Transportation Acts, the Enclosure Acts, the destruction of the monasteries, the massacres of Wexford and Drogheda, the Peterloo massacre, The Durham lockout, the slave trade, the employment of children in the mills, mines and factories of the industrial revoluton, the broken, maimed and crippled survivors of Waterloo, the means test riots, the Highland clearances.

That's some empowering history you've got there Sam.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 05:53 AM

Fred,

None of the above, good or bad, has anything to do with the BNP.

I'm looking forward to the list of historic BNP triumphs ...

... I'm also looking forward to the day I get to jam with Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie ...

... can't wait!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 06:16 AM

Lox, there are no historic BNP triumphs, that's just the point. But like every other fascist movement in history they fester on a distorted, nostalgic and highly inaccurate melange of so called past glories. In the BNP's case that means the British empire. Anyone who still thinks there was anything glorious about the British empire is sorely in need of an operation to remove the rose tinted spectacles.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 08:52 AM

""Don T.

I had hoped you would honour the ceasefire agreement and allow everyone their viewpoint without receiving crap. It would appear you have been engaged in activities that could jeopardize this agreement.

To be fair, I do believe that nasty comments against the BNP have apparently decreased in recent days, a trend that we hope will continue.

There also have been credible reports from friends that the "band of three" have been making negative comments on other sites, this could undermine the trust needed to move from a cessation of hostilities to a lasting peace among us in which everyone's views are respected and understood.

On the other hand, if your friends choose the path of peace, ends its reliance on verbal attacks, accepts that silencing the BNP is both unattainable and unnecessary, and honours democratic and ones right to a viewpoint we will respond positively.

We urge you and Richard to take advantage of the ceasefire accord, and talk to Bruce to negotiate a permanent settlement of this exchange.""


I read this garbage over an hour ago, and I've just stopped laughing.

Who do you think you are Sam, fucking Neville Chamberlain? Because if you do, I've bad news for you. You are on the wrong side.

He was the clown who tried to appease the LAST lot of Nazi thugs who thought they had a right to decide how the world would be run, and WHO would be permitted to live in it.

Tell me, you semi-illiterate twerp, when exactly do you consider that I made any reference to a "peace treaty" with your noxious organisation. If you ever find yourself face to face with me in a court of law, you cretin, I'll show you exactly what I think of the idea of peace with the BNP.

Now, do the world a huge favour, and crawl back under your stone. You are not equipped to talk to the grown-ups.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 08:59 AM

""Of course the whole eugenics idea is ironic in the case of the BNP, given the low intelligence and general poor quality of their rank and file. As a farmer, they're not exactly what I'd choose to boost the flock.""

Like those former innovators, the Third Reich, they have plans for dealing with those who do not fit the required eugenic standard, plans from which they themselves will be exempted.

After all, dear Adolf wasn't what you would call the ideal perfect Blue Eyed Blonde Aryan, was he.

That's the get out clause for the FHG (Fat Horrible Git) and his cohorts.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 08:59 AM

600

DT

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:23 AM

What is this alleged ceasefire? Who negotiated it with whom, and which of them had proper authority to bind any others to it?

If there is any such thing, why are the usual suspects still hosting and posting defamatory pictures and messages directed against those who oppose the BNP?

Incidentally, whether there is necessarily a correlation between the ability to write correct English and intelligence, except in cases of specific disability the ability only to write gibberish has a definite correlation with lack of intelligence.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:51 AM

i haven't buggered off, i am just getting more picky as to whom i converse with.

i have no wish for a ceasefire, just as i have no wish to trade insults.

don't forget in our countries bid for glory, the christanisation(?) of black africans or of the suffering in the mines and the unfair working conditions.

let is also not forget that britain was one of the major countries fighting again aparthied.

this country has done some terrible things and so many things i can be proud of too.
all in all i love my country and its rich history.

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:56 AM

Ah - most of the usual suspects have vanished - but it is very interesting that the fake mudcat has not and 5 out of 12 fans are visible - but the rest hidden. Who could they possibly be? Some of the old posts of the fakes are still available.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:59 AM

Guest Sam

A few others saw sense and stopped their replay of insults towards a legitimate party.

I do hope you don't mean to insinuate that because some (like me) have not added any recent posts against your Brigade of Nitwit Politics (and I am being kind with the appellation) that we have come over to the dark side. Far from it.

I am bored with your childish vindictive games. I have better things to do with my time than to get embroiled in extended arguments with a perverted mind and near idiot.

Maybe you cannot do anything about your conscience, but you can attend to your writing skills. As well as the direct plagiarism I advise you to avoid redundancies in your writing.
"requisite requirement" and "true fact"

BNP? Legitimate? Don't make me laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 12:47 PM

Legitimate? The BNP? They were begat on duchesses by head waiters. Incidentally, that type of tactic was developed by Nixon with his 'silent majority' campaign. "If you say nothing then you actually support me." Fuck off, Sam.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:49 PM

Duchesses? I seriously doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 02:47 PM

Ceasefire, no way!!!
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:00 PM

John,
as I've stated this 'cease fire' only existed in the mind of the creature calling itself Sam, no one 'agreed' to anything of the sort, it's an attempt at divide and conquer, or to put words into the mouths of some people, an attempted exercise in sowing seeds of disharmony and doubt. An old trick used by the fascists and other right wing organisations since time immemorial. I saw it fifty years ago in the area of Britain I come from. The hatred of those of different colour, of different racial backgrounds, the hatred of those who are 'different' (the physiclly and mentally handicapped., and, of course, those who openly oppose the fascists and their supporters. To do nothing is to allow this sort to gain power, to gain a foot hold in our society, to be given the chance to implement their vile policies. Don't let them have that chance, and before the creature, Sam, whines about a legitimate party, elected etc,etc.. Adolf Hitlar was democratically elected, but in the end he was gotten rid of (being the coward he was, like all fascists, he committed suicide rather than face up to what he had done).

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:20 PM

Sam's profile is no longer accessible on fakebook. Likewise a number of others. Have they gone or are they back under a rock? Check the fake mudcat and note that it allegedly had 11 members but only 4 now show their faces: the other 7 have hidden.

Could this be the reason?

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2251402286&ref=search&sid=100000192753156.2312025027..1#/topic.php?uid=2251402286&topic=11

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:23 PM

Ah - found one of Leah's friends

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=Gary+Miler&init=quick#/phoobear57?ref=search&sid=100000192753156.1172078252..1

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:26 PM

Richard, either that or a next step in their campaign. I'm not sure about fakebook, can some on make their profiles only visible to certain people?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 05:20 PM

Looks like that Gary Miler is a fan of, er, 'professional ladies'. D'you think he's the one-handed surfer?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 05:41 PM

i couldn't see leah on his freind list but he is certainly into young skinny lasses, i think gervase is right. his bad spelling might be coz he is typing with the wrong hand....

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 06:01 PM

a friend a patron of the working girl, eh? Any closer than that I am not going *LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 06:32 PM

He changes hands so he can dream it's someone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 06:50 PM

rumour has it that one day he got beaten up by his left hand for being unfaithful with his right

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 06:57 PM

Dammit, I just fell over.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 06:58 PM

Anyone here suppose he might be a one-'finger' typist?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:00 PM

his a one something typist, maybe *LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:04 PM

You need two to copy and paste.
Or one hand on the mouse, but that usually requires duct tape.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:06 PM

He maybe uses mink gloves?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:08 PM

You ever tried washing 'em?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:18 PM

Looks like our stoopid friend has been told by the FHG to stop provoking people, as it interferes with the new policy of hiding his scum beneath a veneer of civilisation.

Sammy may well be getting shat on from both sides.

GOOD!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:24 PM

The link I screwed up above: -

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=BNP&init=quick#/topic.php?uid=2251402286&topic=11645

I have put some more interesting things over on the "harrassment" thread.

Who knows, maybe our constant pinging of the Fakebook abuse team actually helped.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:27 PM

If he's stopped his nonsense there, I suspect he my try again here.......

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 08:28 PM

Not enough exposure here, and his zombies have been getting beaten up at every turn.

He'll try Myspace, Bebo, etc. and we'll just get him kicked out of those as well. The minute one of his moronic supporters posts the usual semi literate diatribe against an ethnic minority, he's on the outside looking in again, and he can't stop 'em. They haven't the brains to obey orders and shut up.

That's why Sam got the plug pulled.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 08:44 PM

The old "if I can't control it no one will" I still think he'll do his hit and runs here, and possibly at Twitter, we'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 12:49 AM

I wonder if my little abuse report made a difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:18 AM

MySpace is such a pain to use and search. I did have a look around but failed to find the usual suspects there. Likewise YouTube: there used to be some BNP comments on videos of me there but they seem to have gone. If anyone sees gobs of BNP slime on either let me know by PM or email please.

I know there was a bunch of them in Bebo, but I have not had a spare hour or two to put on nose-clothespeg and rubber gloves to go looking for the assemblage. I have the paper addresses for Bebo but have not found a useful email link or fax number for reporting abuse that is contrary to their terms of use If anyone finds them please let me know, again by PM or email.

I have found rancid festering pools on Digg before. Has anyone successful experiences of take-down demands with Digg? If so please PM or email me.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 11:14 AM

SPB-Cooperator, your abuse report may have been the one that tipped the scales, you just never know, I'd love to see the number of abuse reports facebook actually got. I'm now waiting to see the spin our dear friend puts on all this, ie who it's going to blame for the taking down of the spaces on facebook

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 02:37 PM

i am slightly worried about the french government closing 'the jungle' tomorrow.

i understand that people want to get away from their own countries and i understand that those poeple would like to go to a country where they can speak the language. BUT i am confused!!!

if they have been offered to apply for asylum in france why would they not want to do so, to keep trying to come here?

of all the time they have been in france, why have not been given french lessons?

i understand closing it down as it is a shithole, but there must be, as in britain, large buildings that would be good for the purpose of holding these poor people until they have been either approved or can go and apply to their country of choice.

letting these unfortunates live like that is inhumane, reducing them to feeling less human.

i really feel for them, but at the same time think that if life was so bad in their home countries why wouldn't you grab the oppotunity(?) to be apply for assylum where ever was safe?

i am seriously confused and don't want to judge these people wthout knowing more about the situation. although it seems to me they are sticking two fingers up at the french and saying that their country isn't good enough.
( although i can't say i blame them, i am an english stereotype in that respect. don't like the french on a national level, but on a personal level, and i have only met one french person and she was sound)

take care all

jade x x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 03:38 PM

says the BNP official FB page was taken down for Abuse of Terms and Conditions. Not only because of the racial hatred bit but because they were trying to fund raise without going through the FB business protocol.

>>>snip

The BNP Application is an advert (or service) that that made many appearances on that Group. The FB rules are unkind to using FB group as a marketing and money making tool, UNLESS you use legitimate advertising, under a formal structural agreement with FB. It appears Griffin and Web used their Application to short cut on advertising fees or making an agreement with FB. And the result…? The BNP group closed by FB.

end snip<<<

Brilliant!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 03:48 PM

Thanks Virgina I cut and pasted that into a small website I'm contructing on this issue.

We might have won a round in this fight, but the war is far from over

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 03:23 AM

Jeddy, here is the reason they are so determined to leave France for England, according to the Mayor of Calais.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5187032/Calais-mayor-blames-Britain-for-immigration-problems.html

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 04:05 AM

Absolutely typical! She wants to avoid complying with her legal obligations under European law, and to achieve that she wants another country to refuse to comply with its own obligations under that law - all because she is a nimby.

Just like the UK, France has a choice (tramelled in some respects by law): admit (on asylum grounds or others) or deport.

These are not proper grounds for supporting BNP immigration policies.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 07:36 AM

Yes Richard, but the immigrants also have choice and they choose not to request asylum in France or any of the other countries they have passed through.
They prefer to suffer the misery of the camp and risk their lives jumping lorries for the chance to claim it in England, because of the far more generous welcome that awaits those who make it.
The mayor's complaint is that our lax regulations and generous benefits make us more attractive than any other country.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 09:16 AM

Precisely. The migrants are in France because they would like to come to England but cannot. They can get to France. Who has the lax regulation?

Incidentally, I am by no means clear that the UK benefit system is more generous (comparative to local standards) to illegal immigrants and asylum seekers whose status is undetermined than France and Germany. I know it has the reputation, but I do not know that those are the facts. The courts have frequently held that Government attempts to restrict benefits for such arrivers are illegal - not as a matter of pure English Law, but as a matter of European law and European human rights Law.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 09:35 AM

What is your explanation for the que at Calais then?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 10:36 AM

Donna Covey, chief executive of the Refugee Council is reported as saying
"Asylum seekers are people fleeing war zones and persecution. I think it's really important that people understand the difference between asylum seekers and economic migrants.
Some of the people in Calais are asylum seekers."

However many more are economic migrants and as such 'illegal' immigrants almost certainly victims of human people trafficking.

French police can detain an illegal immigrant only temporarily without a judicial order of expulsion to the country of origin.
But proving a country of origin is often impossible since migrants typically tear up their identity papers upon arrival in Europe.

What is more disturbing however is the treatment that this opertion has received from the right wing press which seems detirmined to play into the hands of the Islamophobia generated by organizatiuons like the BNP

Damian Thompson Blogs Editor of the Telegraph Media Group today commeneted
"How interesting that French police waited until the end of Ramadan before forcibly dismantling the Calais "jungle". That tells us something we really need to remember about a huge proportion of the illegal immigrants seeking to enter Britain: that they are pious Muslims."

Other newspapers however have reported that the reason the majority of these people, whether asylum seekers or economic migrants, wish so desperately to enter Britain is that because "they have family links with the UK, or the ability to integrate thanks to the communities of their compatriots"

For genuine asylum seekers -

Under the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 asylum seekers and their dependants are NOT permitted to access the mainstream system of welfare benefits.

Asylum seekers and their dependants who need support to avoid destitution are given it by the UK Border Agency from the time they arrive in the UK until their claim is fully determined.
Support takes the form of subsistence, accommodation or both.
From 6 July 2009, levels of subsistence support will be per week £35.13 for a single asylum seeker aged 18 to 24 or £42.16 for a single asylum seeker aged over 25; £69.57 for an asylum seeker accompanied by a spouse or partner;

However -
On 5 November 2008 an article was published in The Independent, headed Britain closes door on 80,000 asylum-seekers. It begins:

Almost 80,000 asylum seekers from countries described by the Foreign Office as dangerous and unstable have been refused refuge in Britain in the past five years.

The Government was last night accused of double standards for registering alarm about 21 major countries of concern at the same time as refusing sanctuary to 77,000 of their citizens who fled persecution and bloodshed.
Refugees from turbulent nations such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe and Sudan are being turned down at the rate of nearly 40 a day.

According to the Independent Asylum Commission within the Home Office there is a culture of disbelief against asylum seekers

The Home Office Statistical Bulletin for 2007, published in August 2008 shows that of the 14,935 asylum appeals determined during the year, 23% were allowed and 72% dismissed.

Prejudice and ignorance skew public view of asylum-seekers

but, why stem the rising tide of xenophobia in the UK with a few facts?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 11:40 AM

So France hands the BNP more ammunition, wonderful!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:11 PM

Thank you Emma, that saved a lot of work for me!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:14 PM

Sorry folks but there's something here I just don't get. If it's alright for our troops to invade Afghanistan and blow the place to bits, why is there such a hoo hah over a few Afghanistanis wanting to settle here in peace to work and contribute to the UK economy?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:27 PM

I fail to see how France is 'handing ammunition' to the BNP apart from the remark reported in the Telegraph by the Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart that "Requesting asylum is easier with them (the British) than in France," - presumably based on the size of the backlog and the subsequent time it takes for an application to be processed. This is sometimes another factor in an asylum seeker's choice of country.

The reasons for wishing to go to a particular country are numerous - but mostly are related to language and cultural links

Although the European Union has been trying to harmonise its asylum procedures, there are still differences in the kind of reception an asylum seeker can expect.

On this BBC site are the details of what asylum seekers can expect when they arrive at the main host countries.

Despair of 'The Jungle'

"Among the migrants were young men, some clearly under the age of 16; child-travellers vulnerable to bullying and sexual abuse. Some of their families had saved money to send these teenagers across time-zones seemingly unaware of the risks

They were curious to know about Britain. They were surprised to find I had sometimes visited their home towns like Kandahar or Ghazni. Many were full of hope but suddenly they would break off a conversation. They had seen someone, usually a gang leader or trafficker who feared the presence of reporters

I often asked them why they wanted to come to Britain. Many regarded the UK as Eldorado. Indeed some relief agencies had tried disabusing them of the British dream. It made no difference. For a key reason for heading to England was that there were established communities already there: Afghans, Somalis, Kurds etc. And that is where they would find work, in the black economy, amongst people who spoke their language and knew their traditions.

Many needed the money to pay off the traffickers who had helped them make the journey. If they failed to find the funds their families back home could be threatened."

Gavin Hewitt, Special Correspondent for BBC News writing today

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:43 PM

Fred, if you can stand it, check out yesterday's Daily Mail take on these young Afghanis (terrorists all is one caption, or something like it) It should be archived online

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:47 PM

Longboat. There are two newspapers which I loathe and detest above everything else. The other one is the Daily Express. As a friend of mine is wont to opine, both of them make great linings for cat litters.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 03:27 PM

No self-respecting bird or cat would use either rag or The News of the World, nor HELLO! for that matter

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 05:15 PM

It seems that so far from (as Keith A said) the jungle becoming populated because of the UK's lax border control, France is now compaining that the UK should take MORE of the jungle inhabitants in and the UK's border agency is saying (broadly) "over our dead bodies".

Does this merit a new thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 05:52 PM

over their dead bodies....somone out there could probably arrange that as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 06:09 PM

Who are some of the folks in 'the jungle'?

They are people like Najib Akhel Jabar, a rail-thin 12-year-old from the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad, who said his father sold a piece of land to pay smugglers to take him and his cousin, also 12, to Europe, after Taliban fighters had repeatedly tried to press the boys into fighting with them.

French Immigration Minister Eric Besson said on Tuesday that the 132 children arrested would be housed in special immigration youth centers until officials determined whether they qualified for asylum.
In the camp on Monday Jabar described how he and his cousin hid in container trucks for six weeks across Turkey, Greece, Italy and France, before arriving in Calais in early August. "I am very afraid that the French police will send me back," he said, adding, "I am less afraid of the French police than the Taliban." Dressed in a light raincoat, Jabar was among those who were arrested on Tuesday morning."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009092...08599192533500

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 03:20 AM

The rule is that asylum must be applied for in the first European country entered.
The usual migrant route from Afghanistan and Iraq is through Greece.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 06:37 AM

Keith is correct asylum seekers are supposed to hand in their applications in the first EU country they reach, but many travel illegally through Europe to reach a country where they have a better chance of being granted residency.

The EU is a major destination for asylum seekers, receiving 103,500 new applications during the first six months of 2008.
Most of these were from Iraq.

The Dublin regulation contains clear rules about the Member State responsible for assessing an application for asylum. It is an important instrument for the prevention of multiple demands and
allows EU countries to return refugees to the country of entry.

Greece, with its long coastal borders, is at the front line of migration to the European Union, with nearly 20,000 new asylum applications lodged there last year

Under this pressure Greek asylum procedures (described as 'Abolish appeals. No backlog. No Problem.') are just the tip of the iceberg of a system that fails at every stage to protect refugees and unaccompanied children.

These failures include illegal push-backs of migrants at the Turkish border, the puncturing of boats in the Aegean Sea, deplorable conditions of detention, police brutality, and various legal and administrative tricks to keep asylum seekers from lodging a claim, all of which Human Rights Watch exhaustively documented in two reports published late last year.

see also "Stuck in a Revolving Door: Iraqis and Other Asylum Seekers and Migrants at the Greece/Turkey Entrance to the European Union." by Bill Frelick

I am of the opinion that the only way of managing the asylum issue is on a European-wide basis.

In the UK there is a false perception that this country carries an unfair burden, compared with other EU members which is fueled by scare headlines in the right wing press and the activities of the BNP etc

Ironically, newspapers and political leaders in other countries are equally convinced that they are the victims of similar iniquities!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 02:56 PM

from the Wikipedia entry on Internet vigilantism:

Anti-racism activism.

Many online use tactics to combat racism, harassing and destroying racist groups on MySpace and other social web services.

Internet vigilantism

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 03:47 PM

Not a great deal of practical help

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 04:58 PM

My point is, is that anti racist activity is seen a vigilantism, a description I would not disagree with

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 05:38 PM

Surely what we do demonstrates disapprobation but does not mete out punishment.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:16 PM

i knew there was more to this than i was aware of. but i did not realize that i have been manipulted to the degree i was.

thanks for going with me on this subject.

i cannot say i blame peope for not wanting to stay in greece, it sounds horrendous, i think i would rather take my chances elsewhere.

i am not sure about france pasing the buck to us. we turn more people away than we take in. surely this is counter productive?   this just creates illegals trying to come in by other means. increasing debts to the traffickers, thereby giving them more wealth.

why are france not very well equipped for these poor people. the article says that are building more centers for them, but why are there not enough already?   
is it possible that once you have assylum you can go to another country legally with a passport?
even if not, i always thought you at least got somewhere safe and decent to live while you await assylum or a work permit? so why not go down that route, at least until you find a way here?


the tactics used by the BNP are to scare us all that this country will be taken over by migrants, where as that report says anything but that.

if we didn't do anything to try to stop the BNP then we would be just as guilty as those who don't vote in allowing them to get in unopposed.
i wonder whether peaceful protest would come under intimidation in that sort of list?

back to migrants or assylum seekers, there is a myth that they get houses and new furniture and TVs to go with it, i unerstand most of that, what i don't get is the new part? is this true?

i also see why some people get angry about the way SOME migrants behave.

example: mum and dad were doing a carbbot sale, they have alot asians in their town due to being a universiity town.
it was towards the end when an asian family came to their stall, they asked how much some hair straightners were. they got told 50p. they threw them down with no respect and look like they were being ripped off.

that sounds awful and petty i know, but when you have to live with that attitude from alot of people for a long time you start to feel resentment towards that group.

i also know that carboot sales are famous for things being cheap, that is the whole point, but there comes a time when you get sick of a group of people always wanting good stuff for nothing.

i know too that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush, that there are rude people everywhere and of all skin colours, but i think that kind of thing is just rude. maybe people like that stick out more and are more remembered because they have been rude and abnoxious.

ok, i now sound like the biggest racist going, i assure you i am not, but i do see why these things annoy people.
it is easy for me to be even handed as i am not normally on the recieving nd of this sort of behaviour, i would hope that if i was on a regular basis, i would try to talk to whoever it was about it, instead of banding all groups of people together.

i will shut up now, as i feel like i am digging a great big hole!!! LOL

take care all

jade x x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:35 PM

First off...Jade you're doing just fine...you're not digging anywhere, keep up the writing you have a good grasp of the situation at hand

Richard, what we do or don't do is just as you describe, but having said that, there are some who would cross that line and mete out punishment, goaded on by members of the very organisations we are up against, that's what the BNP etc wants, a violent confrontation between them and the anti fascist organisations.

I'm old enough to remember and to have taken part in the Anti-Vietnam actions in Grosvenor Square back in the late sixties, I saw th Met's finest deliberately goad people into violent action and then take full advantage and pound the crap out of any demonstrator at hand, I know, I was one of those so beaten, at one demo, I was simply trying to pull someone clear of being trampled by horse's hooves

It's something we have to avoid at all costs, because if we don't, we've lost the war before we start.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:25 AM

Emma B
"Ironically, newspapers and political leaders in other countries are equally convinced that they are the victims of similar iniquities!"

Maybe, but does any other EU country have:

A higher population density than England?( Only 3 major countries on the whole planet do.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/2967374/England-is-most-crowded-country-in-Europe.html )

A higher level of net or gross immigration?

A higher proportion of non home language schoolchildren?

A higher proportion of immigrants in the workforce?

A higher proportion of foreign born new mums?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:59 AM

Jade, I think one of the problems that can occur between indigenous and immigrant populations, are cultural differences concerning the ways we socially interact on an everyday basis.

Sometimes such differences are quaint or amusing, sometimes they become sore points. I went to a university with a lot of foreign students and seemingly small things can become tensions, and can build resentments over time - if they remain left unaddressed.

In Italy apparently it's quite normal to shove the people in front of you, when boarding a bus. Well of course, it used to completely fuck me off! Equally however, if I were to imagine myself as a Japanese person watching the real me doing things as I normally do, I might well appear like some obnoxious lout!

One day a Dutch girl I was friendly with told me she was "in love" with a beautiful guy she'd seen at some university social meet.
She was all sighs about him! He was Italian.

A few weeks later she told me that he'd done the most romantic thing!

They'd been sitting in the library near each other.
She left her desk for a book and when she returned, he was gone but on her desk was a love note telling her how beautiful she looked in the sunlight, asking her if she'd like to go out to ring him - and leaving his phone number.

I said "So did you ring him then?"

She pulled a face and said very matter of factly -"No of course not! If he wants to talk to me, he can just come up and talk to me!"

I never heard about him from her again..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 05:46 AM

No problem

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:20 AM

Keith A of Hertford. And a higher level of racial intolerance?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:41 AM

Would you really say we are more intolerant than France?
Any other country?
Justify.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:03 AM

The European countries with the highest proportion of non-native residents are small nations or microstates.
In Andorra, immigrants comprise 77% of the country's 82,000 people; in Monaco, they make up 70% of the total population of 32,000; in Luxembourg, immigrants are 37% of the total of 480,000; in Liechtenstein they are 35% of the 34,000 people; and in San Marino they comprise 32% of the country's population of 29,000.

Switzerland has the highest immigrant population of any European country with more than one and a half million residents, as 23% of its 7.5 million residents are foreign-born.

Countries in which immigrants form between 10% and 20% of the population are: Latvia (19%), Estonia (15%), Austria (15%), Ukraine (15%), Croatia (15%), Cyprus (14.3%), Ireland (14%), Moldova (13%), Germany (12%), Sweden (12%), Belarus (12%), Italy (11,9%),Spain (11%), France (10%) and the Netherlands.

Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Belgium, Russia, Greece, Portugal, Slovenia and the UK each have a proportion of immigrants between 5% and 10% of the total population.

The latest official figures show that in the year to December 2008, net immigration to the UK was 118,000, down 44 per cent on the previous year. 512,000 people migrated to the UK and 395,000 left in 2008

Although not a member of the EU, the number of immigrants in Norway currently is approximately 508,000, which corresponds to 10.6 per cent of the population.
The five largest immigrant groups in Norway are in turn Polish, Pakistani, Swedish, Iraqi and Somali.

As of 2006, the French national institute of statistics INSEE estimated that 4.9 million foreign-born immigrants live in France (8% of the country's population)
The number of French citizens with foreign origins is generally thought to be around 6.7 million or 10% of the population

In the most recent published world Immigration Statistics > Immigrants as percentage of state population by country
Ireland ranks as one of the highest EU countries at 12.81


A recent study has shown that since 1980, the percentage of births registered in Sweden to mothers born outside the country has nearly doubled from 12 percent to 22 percent
The study's authors attribute the difference in part to the tendency of newly arrived immigrants to have children shortly after their arrival and in part because some groups of immigrant women are more likely to start having children earlier in life.
This is a similar figure to the approximately 20% reported in the UK

In 2006 a BBC news report stated
'Europe's working-age population is shrinking as fertility rates decline. In a fit of gloom, one German minister recently warned of the country "turning the light out" if its birth rate did not pick up.'

So are births to foreign born British mothers to be celebrated or just used as more ammunition for racist policies such as the BNPs?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:22 AM

Keith A. Personally I'd have said that Britain is much more racially intolerant than France, but that's not what I was getting at. Intolerance of immigrants is not caused by population pressure. It is caused by members of the host population perceiving, and refusing to accept, socio-cultural differences between them and the immigrants. It is exacerbated by racist genetic-determinist cruds like the BNP battening onto what are often groundless, but nonetheless understandable, misgivings about jobs, housing etc, on the part of the said population.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:31 AM

Fred, France's extreme right has a far bigger following than BNP.
Alsohttp://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_franc2.htm
Alsohttp://harmony.gnn.tv/blogs/10282/race_riots_expose_france_s_fault_lines

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:39 AM

I have had a strange message today from our Sam. Has anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:02 AM

What kind of message Richard.

As a guest, it can't PM, can it?

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:14 AM

i was just about to ask that too don. here or on FB?

i haven't had a message from any trolls for ages!!!!

lots of love

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 12:46 PM

Richard did you get it the through a PM here at Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:01 PM

I've been researching, looking at the fake Mudcat. All but 4 of 11 friends blanked out, but go to profile and click on discussion, and lo and behold.

There they are:-

1. Little Sammy trying to big itself up by laughing at us, when anyone with the mental capacity to click a mouse can come here and see the the dire performances of the semi literate little twit, getting the shit kicked out of itself.

2. Nasty Helen, still making sarcastic and untrue comments about Lizzie and Tam, and posting links to other sites, giving away the new location of their fake identities. The gormless little twat hasn't the sense to keep her big filthy gob shut.

There were also two other posters,

Richard Tracey, ""Please remember that Mudcat people are paraniod(and wrongly) suspicious of it's members who post with multiple identities. If they are posting anonymously or under multiple identities, most likely their posts end up being deleted, expecially from "Large Rack" threads.""   

and Houston Diamond, "I post under my name :) saves the hassle but shocks everyone that I meet at folk festivals :D""


Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:38 PM

Don,

that Richard Tracey is another fake ID. They used a picture of Joe Offer. Richard Tracey is a play on the Dick Tracey comic strip character, because Joe I believe has a back ground in law enforcement or detective work.

I think the fake profile Richard Tracey has now been removed, as Helen butcher has, but the nasty after effects linger in that fake mudcat group.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:17 PM

I believe if they had been deleted their posts would have vanished too. I have just thought of a way to check!

It is possible that they have merely made their profiles invisible save to friends - which would explain why the fake mudcat had 11 friends and only 4 visible.

Incidentally, when Sam Hudson, Helen Butcher, Leah Green and Lisa Garvey-jones were visible there was always ONE invisible member of the fake mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:48 PM

Yes, I'm now reasonably confident that when a profile is deleted, all of its posts go too. Unless anyone knows different.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 05:20 PM

It's my belief that the only actual deletion was the BNP site, and that because they were using it to raise money.

I am beginning to think that Facebook doesn't care very much about complaints from Brits, which, if true would make them as racist as the BNP.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 05:36 PM

I sent a message to FB a while ago requesting the removal of this 'discussion' on a BNP site - if anyone has any doubts about the degree of Islamophobia let them read this - I will not post it!

and yes......it's still there :(

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 05:37 PM

ooops!
http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=BNP&init=quick#/topic.php?uid=27343550527&topic=5125

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:25 PM

I can't quite believe that Sam Argyle gives his email there on the page! [e-mail]. Given the prevalence of anonymous email tools on the net Poor Sam seems to leaving himself open to receiving a lot of unwelcome mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:31 PM

I have, following his PM to me, PM'd (member) Sam H the above link and explained why as a result all people of conscience must oppose the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 04:16 AM

I have checked. ALthough I cannot find any of the posts of a deleted profile "Robin Loxley" to any messageboards, his PMs have not disappeared from recipients' inboxes. It is therefore possible that Sam Hudson and Helen Butcher etc have been deleted so that the hidden 7 fans of the fake mudcat are not them.

It does not however seem probable.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 04:48 AM

"Personally I'd have said that Britain is much more racially intolerant than France,"

That might be your feeling but I'm sorry to say that it isn't true.

Apart from the noticeable success of the far right in france under Jean Marie Le Pen, I have had numerous conversations with French Algerians, Moroccans and Lebanese living in England who say that they prefer it here because they are, as a rule, left to pursue their religion in peace, whereas in France they are often subject to more frequent and invasive police harassment not to mention more suspicion from non Muslim French folk.

I believe that England is the most grown up country in europe when it comes to race and immigration. There is BNP support, and there is racism, but peoples attitudes are generally a bit more open over here.

Even Holland, the alleged hippy capital of the world, has its fair share of right wingers. I've witnessed more skinhead activity there than I have in England and they have at least one ultra right wing rep in their parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 04:53 AM

Oh - incidentally,


Did anyone see This?



"A BNP London Assembly member could be banned after a probe found he made up details about murders in east London."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:50 AM

And the BNP's "legal officer" Lee Barnes was too unwell to attend poor Barnbrook to assist him. So this might be a good time to sue teh BNP or anyone involved in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 06:52 AM

I just received this email from Hope Not Hate:


"I've just got some important news and I need your help to make sure we can act on it.
Over the past few years, we've known about the secret strategy, pursued by Nick Griffin and the BNP, to lie in order to whip up fear in our communities. And for the first time we have clear, definitive and undeniable proof.

Richard Barnbrook - the BNP's third highest elected official - has been exposed fabricating two murders in a high profile BNP campaign. He has been found guilty of bringing both the Greater London Authority and the Barking and Dagenham Council into disrepute - his lies show the depths the BNP are willing to stoop to in their vile propaganda war.

And now I need your help to make sure that the communities Barnbrook represents know the truth. We urgently need to raise £5000 to deliver 150,000 targeted leaflets across London. And I need your help to make this happen.

Please contribute £25 or whatever you can afford now to help us fight back against the BNP:

http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/truth

Because of the severity of his lies, Barnbrook has been suspended by the Council for a month, forced to submit a written apology to the Greater London Authority and made to undertake "training." This is just the tip of the iceberg - the BNP has been capitalising on fear for years in an attempt to pull our communities apart. But this time is different - this time we have proof in black and white that their campaign is entirely based on fear, falsehood and hatred."

I've made a contribution and hope others will.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 07:48 AM

How do we know that that email is genuine, and that the Paypal money sent is not going into the coffers of the BNP?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 08:03 AM

Hope not Hate has been at the forefront of the recnt campaign to expose the truth about the BNP.

They are certainly resppnsible for reviving my interest over the course of the last year.

They played a key role in the publicity ampaign that kept the number of BNP seats down in europe.

www.hopenothate.org.uk is their website

You will find everything you need there.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 08:20 AM

'Hope not hate' is Searchlight's campaign to counter racism and fascism in elections.

"Searchlight is a British anti-fascist magazine, founded in 1975, which publishes exposés about racism, antisemitism, and fascism in the UK.

Searchlight's main focus is on the British National Party (BNP), Combat 18, and other sections of the far right.
The magazine is published by political activist Gerry Gable and edited by Nick Lowles, and was founded by the late Maurice Ludmer, a lifelong Communist and longstanding anti-racist and anti-fascist."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 08:53 AM

What Emma said.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:10 AM

Yes, I know that Hope Not Hate is fine, but we all get phishing emails that look as if they come from ebay or paypal or banks or whatever. I agree that if it is truly Hope not Hate it is worthy - but how do we know that the BNP's brain cell this week did not decide to try to phish for contributions? We know that the FaF admins of fakebook got phishing emails from the BNP to try to extract thier admin access codes.

I cannot find an identical page on the HnH website, although I can find a contributions page there (which is so out of date that it refers to needing to fight the euro-elections) - and that rather worries me.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:39 AM

Richard, I think you're worrying unnecessarily. There are in fact two news items on the HNH site about Barnbrook, both dated 24/09. Neither of them ask for donations, it's true. But if you want to make sure, you could always ring them on 020 7681 8660, or send the donation snailmail to PO Box 1576, Ilford IG5 0NG.

BTW., this is the fourth time in the last month or so, that I have heard of a BNP legal representative who "couldn't make it", or found some other stalling tactic to delay court proceedings. Perhaps they figure they can hold out until a future BNP government is able to quash all such summonses.

Oh look. Hell just froze over.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 12:26 PM

Richard, I have had a receipt from paypal stating that my payment has gone to Searchlight Magazine, so I'm sure it's genuine. As an extra precaution, I've checked my paypal account.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:37 PM

Richard makes a fair point.

While this PARTICULAR E-Mail is (apparently) genuine, such is not usually the case.

Received wisdom is that you never give personal details in response to an E-Mail. NEVER!

I only carry out those transactions with:-

1. People or companies I know and trust.
2. People and companies with whom I have directly initiated contact.

And even then, I consider very carefully the possible pitfalls.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:34 PM

I received the same e.mail.

The reason is because I signed up to the hope not hate mailing list.

It wasn't unsolicited mail.

I suspect leveller did the same thing.


Richard and Don, your concerns are valid and received gratefully, but in this instance you can rest assured that noone is being scammed.

If we were donating money based on unsolicited e.mails you would of course be completely right to say that that was utter foolhardiness.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:00 PM

thanks longboat and crow sister.   it is good to know that although i have my own pet hates it has nothing to do with nationality, simply a lack of understanding. i would like to think that if i were in another country i would try to fit in with local customs.

i too have had that email, but as funds are very tight for me, i am unable to contribute to hope not hate. if only the bank would give us money for charities that wouldn't come out of ones bank account.

i have looked at the BNP page on facebook and the positive thing i have noticed, is that for every racist or facist post there are three others countering it. yes most of them decend into petty name calling but they are being countered.
how do you get your name to appear in black on a page like that, and not have it affect the rest of your profile?
i would have posted to it before but i will not open up my friends list to such vile people.

sleep well all

jade x x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:22 AM

Can you believe it?

Richard Barnbrook, who holds a seat on Barking and Dagenham council and is the BNP's only London assembly member was suspended from the council for a month after being accused of "openly and outrageously" lying to "whip up fears in the London community" about the incidence of knife crime.

After the hearing, Barnbrook described the process as a kangeroo court and a waste of taxpayers' money

He claimed.................

..... he had made "unintentional inaccuracies" because he was dyslexic and was confused by loud background noise as the film was made!!

This is the worst dyslexic 'joke' I've heard including the lamentably unfunny one about God and a dog posted elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:51 AM

Dyslexic eh. Isn't there something in the BNP's manifesto about correction programmes, for people whose disabilities are holding back the master race ?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 08:42 AM

You should have sen the footage of him reading out his statement in court and thus demonstrating his "dyslexia" and "struggling" over the text like a brave boy with his solicitor/social worker by his side.

A worse example of acting you will never encounter!!!

Having said that, no actor no matter how good could have made it funnier!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 12:26 PM

Lox, Richard Barnbrook may be genuinely dyslexic for all we know, although how he would cope with his council work I've no idea. However, the difference between fascists and us is that we don't snigger over someone else's presumed disabilities, however odious their politics may be.

Where people with enlightened views try to help and accommodate, fascists exterminate and incarcerate. That is a distinction which Richard Barnbrook would do well to bear in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 03:28 PM

Blah blah blah blah! Apart from pontificating here,what have any of you done? I insist that you ALL listen to the third movement of Rostopovich's Eigth symphony, writen in 1943. Folk music? Deprivation? None of you have a fucking clue!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 03:38 PM

700!! Do I get a prize? A years subscription to the Graunird?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 03:42 PM

Speaking of clueless ...paco, YOU don't insist on anything boy, you haven't the parts or the guts to back up your demands in way shape or form. You're all very good with you idiocies on the net, I wonder if you'd say the same things to any of us face to face? I don't think so, you, like the rest of the low lives that inhabit th BNP membership, are spineless and gutless, and would run a mile if confronted. Pray, paco, you and I never ever meet face to face, and before you start whining, I don't threaten, paco, I promise, and I always keep my promises.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 03:56 PM

Yo longboat. I am well known to a lot of mudcatters. If you want to fight me face to face, set the time and place, I will be be there. NEVER accuse me of cowardice or not standing my ground!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 03:58 PM

Where are you you gutless shit? Pick a venue, and I will film it and put it on youtube.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:01 PM

Where are you chicken shit? PM YOU GUTLESS TWAT!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:11 PM

Paco Griffin? A prime example of what happens when attention-seeking children get hold of a PC.

Now fuck off back to the playgroup and put the toys away.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:17 PM

Gervase, I accept your challenge. I am no more BNP than you are, but as long as you and your Graunird chums think that they we are, battle must commence. NO POLICE!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:24 PM

Bare knuckle fight. Me and Gearvase/longbloat/guest whatever he is calling himself. No Police. No reciminations..... DEAL!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:25 PM

This is all tremendously exciting, but what on earth is 'Graunird'? Is it actually the psuedo-dyslexic anagram it appears to be?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:28 PM

Or even 'pseudo-dyslexic'....
Never realised it was contagious..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:34 PM

Wank on dudes, meet me face to face if you dare, wankers!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:43 PM

Just say where you're going to be, Paco - I expect someone will turn up. Probably wanking, probably not.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:46 PM

PM me you wankers. I will flatten all of you in a field of your choice. TRY ME.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:50 PM

Don't forget your steamroller.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:53 PM

Longboat, you asked asked me OUT. Ready when you are. PM me, let,s sort it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 04:58 PM

"I expect someone will turn up. Probably wanking, probably not."

Maybe Paco should Google for London cruising sites instead of propositioning posters here? And don't forget that Black hanky.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:06 PM

Don't forget, it was longboat who started throwing out the threats!

"Pray, paco, you and I never ever meet face to face, and before you start whining, I don't threaten, paco, I promise, and I always keep my promises"
I think an apology is in order.
Paco was simply indicating his derision about this self pitying tone that has been adopted on this thread......simply voicing his opinion.
I dont think Paco is a BNP member or even a supporter.....he, like me, just gets sick of listening to the same juvenile crap!

away and get on with your lives...if you have any.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM

Well if there's going to be a scrap, tickets need to be sold, refreshments organised, and the raffle prize sorted out.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:14 PM

You goin' to be the promoter Smokey? :0)

Tough luck Jack Solomons, I think longboat's bluff has been well and truly called!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:14 PM

Kewl!
It'll be just like a folkie version of Fight Club!
Please can I be Helen Bonham Carter? I can swear lots and wear smudged makeup too!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:19 PM

Crow Sister, if you knew me, you probably wouldn't want to be Helen Bonham Carter :-)

We probably need to form a committee to promote this properly..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:26 PM

Any wagers will be readily accepted....Akenaton Bookmakers.... prices on application!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Already dealt with, old bean. Honest Smokey's boys will be there on the day, cash only, best odds available.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:39 PM

Will we have a singaround after the general bare-knuckle bloodbath? I do hope so. I've just been learning Alison Gross from the singing of Lizzie Higgins, and it'd be a great chorus song to relax with after A&E.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:40 PM

Oh, and don't worry about a ceilidh band, I've sorted that out.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:41 PM

We can have the singaround straight after the hour of compulsory sea shanties.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:45 PM

If that doesn't keep the constabulary at bay, I don't know what will.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:58 PM

All the smart money's goin' on Paco......i'm snowed under, fancy layin' some off for me Smokey?....you can have a "monkey" at 50's longboat!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:05 PM

We're a respectable business, Akenaton. Besides, we've heard Longboat carries a Stanley-knife.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: ButterandCheese
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:18 PM

Since its inception I have been following, what started off as an intelligent discourse on a serious political threat, the BNP, now it has degenerated into stupid, playground name calling brawl. I don't want to hear whose fault it is or who started it (it was him, Miss!), I don't care. Either discuss the issue with a modicum of common sense and inteligence, if you can, or those responsible for this nonsense can get back in their prams, put their dummies in their mouths and go back to sleep.
that's all, playtime's over.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:21 PM

We regret to announce an unexpected slump in ticket sales.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:23 PM

Yea .....I heard he keeps it in his trouser pocket.....any way Paco's pals call him "crocodile"

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:27 PM

"Serious political threat" my arse!.....the threat comes from the real political parties!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: ButterandCheese
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:29 PM

You have your opinion, ! have mine, akenaton, it's that easy to understand

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:32 PM

I respect your opinion BandC.....just don't patronise those of us who dont agree with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: ButterandCheese
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:36 PM

You read to much into too little, I think. I used a simple sentence.

I fyou feel the three major political partires aren't serving your neeeds, perhaps you and others who feel the same way, should create an alternative

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:36 PM

"crocodile" my arse.. that's because of 'is 'andbag..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:42 PM

Made it 'imself Smokey!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:46 PM

Phew.. glad I'm not fightin' 'im..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:53 PM

100's longboat!!......anybody?


Wankers!! :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 07:19 PM

I hope they don't chicken out, now we've gone to all this trouble..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 08:14 PM

Paco and his grauniad readers ...

... would this be the same Paco from Beverley who was lecturing those of us from inner city London about the perils of life in urban Britain?

And now he wants to lecture us about Folk classical and deprivation.

I suspect he is as ill informed on those subjects as on those others that he has commented on.

He's already been given a verbal pasting on here - as is so often the case his last resort is to vent his fury with his fists.

What a freak.


--------------


I'll write your response for you Paco to save you time:

"I know more than any of you and if you disagree I'll rant and rave and throw my toys around like a silly boy.

Fancy threatening me too?

Do I care?

Feel impotent?

Been at the Vi-aggro again? (see what I did there? boom boom!)

Silly jumped up boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 08:51 PM

This skirmish proves the futility of the fascist/anti fascist issue.
I used to go on ANL demos in the 60s and 70s, I finally came to the conclusion that there were as many fascists on my side than on the other.

Trouble is many people dont realise they are fascist.....they don't understand what it means.....the closed minds, altering the meaning of words, attempts to criminalise speech and thought, engaging in witch hunts against people holding contrary opinions.......just read the fuckin' book!

---

Well, we have another BNP thread, so I think it's high time to close this one.
-Joe Offer-