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early music - harder stuff

GUEST,leeneia 27 Aug 09 - 11:54 PM
Will Fly 28 Aug 09 - 06:01 AM
GUEST,leeneia 28 Aug 09 - 09:25 AM
Guy Wolff 28 Aug 09 - 09:45 AM
GUEST,leeneia 28 Aug 09 - 11:42 AM
Guy Wolff 29 Aug 09 - 08:54 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 29 Aug 09 - 10:59 PM
GUEST,leeneia 30 Aug 09 - 08:55 PM
Ptarmigan 31 Aug 09 - 05:46 AM
Tootler 31 Aug 09 - 05:11 PM
Guy Wolff 31 Aug 09 - 08:03 PM
Ptarmigan 01 Sep 09 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,leeneia 01 Sep 09 - 11:21 AM
Geoff the Duck 01 Sep 09 - 11:43 AM
Geoff the Duck 01 Sep 09 - 11:50 AM
Tootler 01 Sep 09 - 07:30 PM
Jack Campin 01 Sep 09 - 07:52 PM
Geoff the Duck 02 Sep 09 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Sep 09 - 10:22 AM
Mr Happy 03 Sep 09 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Sep 09 - 10:37 AM
Jack Campin 03 Sep 09 - 11:16 AM
Tootler 03 Sep 09 - 07:39 PM
Jack Campin 03 Sep 09 - 08:43 PM
GUEST,leeneia 04 Sep 09 - 04:36 PM
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Subject: early music - harder stuff
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 11:54 PM

On other threads, we've been discussing early music, so I thought I'd tell about a piece that I played with my friends last Sunday.

Usually I find early music that seems melodic, which means that it seems familiar somehow. But last Sunday our guitarist couldn't come, and suddenly I was liberated from chords. So I decided to lay a piece of authentic, non-melodic, non-sweet early music on the gang.

If you go to this site:

Renaissance music page

go down to L (for the composer, La Rue) and click 'Pleni sunt coeli' --

you can hear the piece we played.

Well, when presented with the written music, the gang declared that it didn't make any sense. I had an idea, and we all gathered around the computer. I opened Noteworthy Composer, and had it play 'Pleni Sunt Coeli' everyone listened to the piece and watched the notes turn red as they sounded.

We wound up doing that (listening and watching) four times. Then we returned to our music stands and started playing. They loved it!

It makes me so happy when a piece is a hit and everyone is having a great time.

If you don't know what I mean by 'non-melodic, non-sweet,' listen to the piece and have a new experience.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 06:01 AM

Very nice piece - though I have to say I found it both sweet and melodic, and very much of its time.

A good web page too - I'll be investigating more of the stuff there.

Better watch out for a multi-instrumental version of "Spem In Alium" arranged for several ukes and a serpent... the brain's going into overdrive...


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:25 AM

'Spem in alium is a forty-part Renaissance motet by Thomas Tallis, composed circa 1570 for eight choirs of five voices each.'

======
Will Fly, I don't believe I am up to that. To begin with, 40 people couldn't fit in my living room, even if we removed the rock & mineral collection.

I'm glad you liked the piece and the site.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:45 AM

My wife plays Viola de Gamba and I have had years of listening . What a wonderful world of really human music . Tallis and Gibbons are favorites as is Tobius Hume . . Erica's dad was a luthier who made Vilols so she has been in that world for her life. Her older brother is a great recorder player from Boston and his girl friend plays violin so thanksgiving is a blast !! . I will add a link to some of there Thanksgiving playing ( The tunes they are playing are a little newer for the dicusstion here .We also did a version of Beverage's Maggot for the Ausinites on YT . All the best Guy      If my eyes could read dots I would be more involved !!!! I love this music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq68Ftw5rK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWyffWRc9vs


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 11:42 AM

Thanks for the links, Guy. I see that you have videos of your own, as well.

I envy you a family that makes music together.

In my latest experience of music with the family, I was asked to bring Irish music and instruments 600 miles so we could 'sing together.' Instead, we all had to watch re-runs of Ab Fab. Arrgh!

Never mind. You said, 'We also did a version of Beverage's Maggot for the Ausinites on YT.' I just learned from a CD by Bare Necessities that a maggot is a whim or fancy.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:54 PM

Yes another saying is that a maggot is a tune so good "You cant get it out of your head " .It can also mean " Favorite ".
         There are a lot of wonderful "early" musicians in the north east . There are groups around New Haven, NYC, Boston, Western Mass. And Southern New Hampshire as well . My wife Erica has gone pretty far a field to find people to play with . I must say I have found a ton of great musicians to play with here at the Mudcat ! All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:59 PM

I'm going to have to play my Tallis Scholars cds, which I have neglected for too long.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 08:55 PM

Nice idea, Q.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:46 AM

That's a great link, thanks.

Very handy having all those lovely MP3s too, for all us Ear players!

Makes a change from all that dusty, dry old sheet music! :-)

Cheers
Dick


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Tootler
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:11 PM

A great site. I play in a recorder group who play quite a lot of renaissance music. It's wonderful stuff. I just love the way the parts weave through each other.

Sorry Dick but if you are going to play Renaissance polyphony, you really need those dots.

I remember playing in Spem in Alium at an Early Music Summer School in Durham (UK) about 10 years ago. Everyone at the school was involved and it was whatever forces were available, voices, viols and recorders mainly and the "choirs" were mainly consorts of the same type of instrument. We were arranged in a circle (roughly - we were in a rectangular hall) and the conductor stood in the middle. The sound was magical. An experience to treasure.

I have a few midi files of early music ranging from the 13th to the 17th century and in one to six parts here They were originally created using Noteworthy Composer then exported to midi. Feel free to use them if you wish.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:03 PM

Here is an interesting clip on YT of the New York Consort of Viols doing Music of Spanish Jews leaving Volencia with the expulsion (1492) . Some great music in the clip . Marie Dalby Judith Davidoff Larry Lipnick .. Enjoy !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCjSRfgY42M


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 07:22 AM

Hey Tootler, that's a wonderful website you have created!

I hope you don't mind but I've taken the liberty of posting a few links to it on The Café?

Cheers
Dick


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:21 AM

Hello, Tootler. Regards to a fellow recorder player.

You have a great site, and I've added it to my Favorites for future perusal.

Sunday we met for early music, and the 21-year old son of our harpist stopped by . To borrow the car, of course. He's a member of a rock band, but he good-naturedly accepted a drum so he could play along for a bit.

The tune I grabbed for that was a sexy country dance called 'The Red House.' (No doubt there is more than one by that name.) He liked it.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:43 AM

The other day, possibly after reading the start of this thread, I realised I didn't have a simple MIDI player installed on my PC.
During a search, I happened across this free one, which displays the MIDI as sheet music and highlights the notes as they are played - Notation Player - {freeware}.
With multi part tunes, you can select the part for the instrument you want to hear or follow the dots for. You can also print the score or parts displayed.
It doesn't claim to produce a "perfect" score, as a MIDI file does not contain some info it would need, but it does seem to do a good enough job for most purposes, such as listening to the tune, looking at the dots and even playing along with it.

Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:50 AM

Oh - another thing it has is a built in browser linking to various sources for music in MIDI format, and also to sites which have MIDI search engines. It took me seconds to find tunes from Elizabethan through to ABBA, which it can then either download to your computer, or open directly in the player window.
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Tootler
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 07:30 PM

Thanks for your kind comments, Dick and leeneia.

I haven't done much with it recently and I feel it needs refreshing, but I haven't decided what to do yet. I will probably leave the recorder pages much as they are, but the folk music ones need updating as I have a pile of tunes which could go on.

Red House was a good choice leeneia, There's some great tunes in Playford.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 07:52 PM

Anyone know what the "Red House" title signifies?

The other old titles for it are "Where will bonnie Annie lie?" or "Where will our goodman lie?" - all from the 1690s, I think. "Bonnie Annie" or "Bonny Anne" seems to have been the most prevalent, and that's the title of Angus Mackay's pipe march version of the 1820s, at which point the tune seems to have stopped evolving new variants.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:36 PM

Presumably named for some locally well known brick built building. Later in history William Morris had one, there was also a pub in Cardiff docklands named the Red House.
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:22 AM

There's more than one tune called 'Red House.' I thought they all referred to a famlliar red-brick pub or inn.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:32 AM

Piles here http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind?P=Red+House&find=FIND&m=title&scale=0.65&limit=1000&thresh=5&fmt=single&V=1&Tsel=tu


& also use this site a lot http://www.myspace.com/thedancingmasters


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:37 AM

I checked my Playford book, the Peter Barnes edition. The version of Red House that we did is dated 1721. Of course, that's only the date when it was printed. It could have been around a long time before that, and I suspect it was. It's in the belly-dance minor (Am with G#'s), and it's great fun to play.

Our harpist pointed out that the chords are the same in every section, so why not play them all at the same time? So we did. (The jury is still out on that one.)

You can find it at JC's Tune Finder, number 37124. Look for the tune with an octave jump very close to the beginning.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 11:16 AM

The "Where shall X lie"/"Bonny Anne" versions have words (originally by D'Urfey, I think) so it seemed a fair guess that the "Red House" title was associated with a song as well (or another variant of the same song).


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Tootler
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 07:39 PM

According to Jeremy Barlow's "Complete Playford" Red House first appeared in Playford in the 9th (1695) edition. At that time it was in Gmin. According to a note underneath the title, it was transposed up a tone in the 17th edition which fits with what leeneia said earlier as the 17th edition was published in 1721.

It fits on both C and F recorders and is a little easier to play in Am, but I like it in Gm on the recorder.


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:43 PM

Take your pick between three different modes. The first two are from Bruce Olson, tidied up a bit, the third is from David Johnson's edition.

X:1
T:WHRWAD1- Where wad bonnie Annie ly
S:SMM #324
L:1/16
M:2/4
K:F
AG| F2f2 f2ed|c2c2 A2A2|G2_e2 =e2dc|B2B2 G4 |
    F2f2 gfed|c4   A2A2|BA`GF E2GB|A2F4    ||
AB|(cB)AG F2A2|c2c2 A4 |BA`GF _E2G2|B2B2 G2G2|
    cB`AG F2A2|c4   f3c |BA`GF EFGB|A2F4    |]

X:2
T:WHRWAD2- Red House (Bonnie Annie)
S:Dancing Master (9th ed), 1695
L:1/8
M:4/4
K:Gm
      G2 g4      (fe)|d4   B4 | A2 f4       ed |   c2(ec) (dc)(BA)|
      G2 g4      (fe)|d4   B4 |(cB)(AG) (^FG)(AB) |[1 B2 G2   G4    :|\
                                                    [2 B2 G2   G2    ||
(Bc)|(dc)(BA) (GA)(Bc)|d4   B4 |(cB)(AG) (FG)(AB) |   c4      A4    |
    (dc)(BA) (GA)(Bc)|d4   B4 |(cB)(AG) (^FG)(AB) |   B2 G2   G2    :|
(Bc)| d2 d2   d2 (Bc)|d2d2 d2AB| c2 c2    c2 AB |   c2 c2   c2 Bc |
      d2 d2    d2 (Bc)|d2d2 d2AB|(cB)(AG) (^FG)(AB):|[1 B2 G2   G2    :|\
                                                    [2 B2 G2   G4    |]

X:3
T:Where Shall our Good-Man Lye in the Cold nights in Winter
S:Thomson recorder MS, 1702
M:C|
L:1/8
K:CMix
ef|g2ab c'2g2|Te4 c2de|f2ga b2f2|Td4    B2
ef|g2ab c'2g2|Te4 c2de|fedc BcdB| c2 g4||
ef|gfed cdef | g4 Te2de|fedc Bcde|~f4 d2
ef|gfed cdef | g4 Te2de|fedc Bcd2| e2 ~c4|]


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Subject: RE: early music - harder stuff
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:36 PM

Thanks, Tootler. I thought it didn't really sound like 1721. The gang will like knowing that it was printed as early as 1695.


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