BS: A birther in the Court

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:40 AM

Ichy, you just are not getting it, are you. You are acting like a pure-dee nut-job because of your conflation of half-truths and improbabilities. You're skewed, bent, crooked in your thinking, buried in shot of your own devising, fueled by aberration and dedicated to mis-statements.

Go do this elsewhere.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:57 AM

The so called "long form" birth certificate is a souvenir for parents that hospitals sometimes provide. It is not the legal birth certificate, or certificate of live birth that is the state form. That is the type of legal birth certificate Obama has provided as proof. Asking for a "long form", something parents get from the hospital to put in a baby book as a souvenir, is ridiculous. But it is something birther conspirator's seem to be obsessed with.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:04 AM

image of Obama's birth certificate

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:04 AM

And if he provides a long form, they will have some other proof it wasn't the real thing. The issue isn't about proof. It's about hate. It's about having an excuse to hate Obama (see! he's not a real American and shouldn't be president!) so you can pretend it's not about his being black. Because that's what it's about.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:12 AM

I agree, it is about hating the fact that Obama was elected.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:34 AM

Yeah, my birth certificate looks about like that. Contains essentially the same kind of information. Only it was issued in the State of California.

This, of course, would mean to Ichy that I was born on the third moon of Mars.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:18 AM

It might be interesting to compare Obama's birth certificate with others issued by Hawaii. It should not be difficult to demonstrate that that is the form that Hawaii uses.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 07:48 AM

The issue isn't about proof. It's about hate.

With a large component of stupidity, lunacy, irrationality and delusion.

These preople are a danger to themselves & others and should be instititionalized.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:16 PM

I'm thinking that Joe Offer ought to restore the original thread title, "A Crazy Birther in the Court"

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:25 PM

If a birther would contact their state to get a copy of their own birth certificate, they would not get the original, they would get a printed copy of what the state provides. That is what Obama has provided with an image of it online. As stated before, they just don't accept him, no matter what proof is provided.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:11 PM

It doesn't matter if he wasn't born in the United States. His mother is an American. That makes him a natural-born citizen. Being born in the United States is sufficient but not necessary to being a natural-born US citizen. The whole kerfuffle about "birtherism" is caused by ignorance of the law. Which isn't terribly surprising, all things considered. Hate can blind you to facts.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:14 PM

Yes, more than one reason that he is a citizen. I do think the birther movement is crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:18 PM

Curious.

Beyond what's on the Certificate of Live Birth, what additional information would be included on ichMael's hypothetical "long form" birth certificate?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:30 PM

Oh, Don, I'm sure the long form would give hobbies and interests of the parents, extended family reunions, pictures of ancestors and their hopes for the future of their child. In Obama's case, they projected their plans for his presidency.

Just like mine. :)

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:30 PM

The "long form" that hospitals provide as a souvenir sometimes has the baby foot prints, the doctor's signature, parents signature... but it is not a LEGAL document that you could use to get a passport.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:42 PM

I can see where the "long form", or "souvenir form" might give length and weight of the baby, which don't seem to be on the official record of live birth. Might give that Daddy was present at the birth, if he was.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:49 PM

I googled "hospital souvenir birth certificate".
Here is one example
click

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: John P
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:52 PM

They keep saying that Obama is hiding some big secret because he doesn't engage with them on their "facts". I, for one, am really, really glad that my president has better things to do than publicly debate idiocy with loonies.

It's easy to make up fiction and then keep saying it as fact. "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" I read it on the web! It must be true!

ichMael, why aren't you addressing the issue? Why do you keep pretending the sky is blue? What are you hiding by not being willing to publicly admit that the sky is red? The CIA has known for years that the sky is red. They've told the last four presidents, but nothing has been done yet. If you would just get on board we could clear this question up once and for all . . . is someone blackmailing you to force you to pretend the sky is blue?

"The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!"

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:05 PM

Birthers seem to be confusing the hospital "long form", not a legal document, and the "long form" 8.5"x14" page vital statistics record which is a legal document (the page is longer than an 8.5"x11" page).

The CDC has a document online that describes birth certificates, death certificates, and other document specifications of vital and health statistics.

It is a PDF file called
The 1989 Revision of the U.S. Standard Certificates and Reports from the US government CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL / National Center for Health Statistics.

the PDF file is at cdc.gov: Click Here

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:42 PM

I'd forgotten that. I was given a Certificate of Birth that included sex, time of birth, weight, hospital, attending physician and foot prints.

It was NOT the official certificate of birth. As said above, it was a souvenir meant for the Baby Book.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:43 PM

So, it is the souvenir certificate that the birthers are howling for? Amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:28 PM

Yeah, I have a photostat of my birth certificate. Looks very much like the Obama "Certificate of Live Birth." It is legal and official. The original is on file in Los Angeles County, Calfornia.

I think my parents also got a copy with the same information, plus prints of my little feetses, to put in a "baby book" (my two sisters had baby books, too).

I don't recall the little bunny, though. Does that mean I was born somewhere else and the whole thing is a fraud?

So—who am I? Where was I born? What am I? Were my parents just jivin' me?

Does the missing bunny mean I could never run for President?

(I tremble with fear!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 05:54 PM

Don Firth inquired:

Does the missing bunny mean I could never run for President?


No, it doesn't mean that, Don. Anyone can run for President. Even Itchy can run for President!

But if you're not a natural born US citizen, you can't serve in the office.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 06:28 PM

Itchy as President!??

Now I DO tremble with fear!!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:12 PM

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=165041

Okay. That's a link to the article about Tim Adams. I'll quote from it since it gives some bullet points on this controversy.

Among other things, the article says, "The White House has maintained a computer-generated Certification of Live Birth, or COLB, is proof enough of Obama's Hawaiian birth, even though it has no hospital or doctor's name on it. Such documents differ from a Certificate of Live Birth which includes those details. In response to a direct question from WND, the Hawaii Department of Health refused to authenticate either of the two versions of Obama's short-form COLB, posted online – neither the image produced by the Obama campaign nor the images released by FactCheck.org."

I can't simplify the issue much more than that. He hasn't shown a valid birth certificate. And if he was born in Kenya of a father who was a British subject, there's no way he qualifies to be president. His whore of a mother should have pulled someone else's name out of the air.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:57 PM

You are one sick puppy to call the president's mother a whore.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:59 PM

IchMael, if you can give us a reasonable explanation of why it is more appropriate to call Obama's mother a whore than it would be for one of us to call your mother a whore, we may not be forced to conclude that you are filthy crawling slime.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:42 PM

What Dean and Alice said.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 10:42 PM

Totally consumed by irrational hatred. And with a soul full of dark and ugly spiders.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: LadyJean
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 12:46 AM

I don't know what I had for the first 31 years of my life. But it wasn't an official birth certificate. I know, because I took it down to the passport office to apply, and discovered it wasn't an official birth certificate. It was something you wave at the state official to get a copy of your birth certificate.

I have had to get several, since they have a bad habit of getting lost. I needed one when I applied for a passport. I needed one when I went for my first driver's license. I know I'm a natural born U.S. Citizen. I expect Mr. Obama is too.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:07 AM

You know, if John McCain had won the presidency I wonder if a fuss would have been made about his citizenship? I realize he was born in the Panama of an American mother but that kind of fact doesn't faze the idiot fringe.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:17 AM

It doesn't matter who his father was or where he was born. If his mother is an American citizen, then Obama is a natural born American citizen. Period. End of Story. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Calling his mother a whore, though, is of jaw-dropping sliminess. IchMael isn't just nuts. He's despicable and nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:30 PM

I got to wondering just what the final word is on 'natural born' and found this (I will no longer pay any attention to the slime among us):


"As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do (sic) create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

*Anyone born inside the United States *
*Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
*Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
*Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
*Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
*Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
*Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
*A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

***Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example."

UNnatural must mean Formal Naturalization

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:08 PM

Thanks, Ebbie. That sums it up nicely.

So--since Obama's mother (no matter what the nature of her "morality" might be, ichMael!) was born in Kansas (that IS in the United States, remember), it makes no difference where Obama was born or who his father might have been. He's a natural-born citizen of the United States.

Case closed! What next, Mr. Irrelevant?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 09:12 AM

Problem is it ain't just Itchy - there's a whole cadre of these delusional idiots on the loose.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 10:13 AM

Mass delusion is an established phenomena. Whole communities have been built on it.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 12:25 PM

More like whole NATIONS.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 12:44 PM

And it really doesn't have anything to do with the Constitution.
It's about a (gasp) librul who is also (double gasp) non-white!

All else is smokescreen.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 01:46 PM

I have to say that I have been following this "birther" debate very closely since it started. I had always thought that my oldest son could not be President of the United States because he was born in Berlin when I was stationed there.
Then came the 2008 election, with one candidate born in Panama and the other the son of a foreign national (and born in Hawaii, which had just barely become a state). And all the experts said that both candidates were "natural-born" U.S. citizens. This gave me great hope, since my son is now 37 and getting to old to lead a punk rock band. Maybe my own son can become President, after all these years that I thought there was no hope for him.
But if these birthers prevail, then maybe my son will be doing punk rock when he's 80....

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 02:16 PM

Well, lemme see, now. . . .

I was born in Los Angeles and I lived the first nine years of my life in Pasadena before we moved to Seattle. Quite a nice neighborhood, actually, although not really what one could call posh. A Hispanic family lived across the street (they ran a dry cleaning establishment) and there was a black family living a couple of doors up the street. The oldest girl was attending UCLA, and the younger kids were playmates. My birth certificate, issued in L.A., is only one page and looks very much like Obama's and contains much the same kind of information.

Obviously, I'm not qualified to be president.

(Ye gods, who'd want the job!!???)

Don Firth

P. S. I think TIA's got it. Obama's one of those wild-eyed liberals (a notch or two to the left of Rush Limbaugh) and he's the wrong hue.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 06:18 PM

Obama's one of those wild-eyed liberals (a notch or two to the left of Rush Limbaugh) and he's the wrong hue.

Tsar Ivan IV was a notch or two to the left of Limbaugh. Obama is a bit farther than that.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 01:08 AM

True indeed, mouse. But left of Rush is far too liberal for a some folks here, it would seem.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 02:25 AM

When do Limbaugh, Coulter, and Beck start complaining about how each other are not right-wing enough? That could be entertaining.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 08:36 AM

I believe you'll find that they've started to do that already, Mouse.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 03:18 PM

//It doesn't matter if he wasn't born in the United States. His mother is an American. That makes him a natural-born citizen. Being born in the United States is sufficient but not necessary to being a natural-born US citizen. The whole kerfuffle about "birtherism" is caused by ignorance of the law. Which isn't terribly surprising, all things considered. Hate can blind you to facts.//

Wrong. His mother BY LAW had to be at least 19 for Obama to be a citizen if he was born in Kenya. She was 18. Therefore if Obama was born outside the US he cannot serve as president even if he were naturalized.

With that said, until the birthers come up with something to prove Obama was born outside the US they are beating a dead horse. I only wish the horse were alive so it could kick them square in the face.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 03:28 PM

josep, take another look. By law, in addition to being a US citizen, Obama's mother had to have spent "at least six years" in the US. Since she was born and raised in Kansas, it seems evident that she spent enough time in the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 04:07 PM

Which orifice did you pull the "must be 19" reference out of? The law appears above, on this very thread, and there's nothing about having to be 19. It's just wrong. But that doesn't matter to a birther. A new excuse for Obama not to be a natural-born American will always be found, no matter how wrong and stupid. It's so hard to admit you're wrong. Even when the very law in question is posted right before your eyes. I feel sorry for you, I really do.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 06:56 PM

For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:

-One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
-The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
-A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

As specified in Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship By a Child Born Abroad. U.S. Department of State. http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html

The requirements you refer to above appear to be quite recent since the year 2009 appears quite a number of times. The requirements have changed over the years. At the time of Obama'a birth, his mother would have had to be 19 if she gave birth to him outside the country. She was 18 therefore Obama would not be a citizen.

I further want to clarify I am NOT a birther. I merely state the law. There is no evidence that he was born in Kenya or anywhere outside the U.S. therefore it is a moot point whether Ann Dunham was 19 or not. The birthers have not proven their case and so have no case.

I also resent your stupid attitude that simply because I have researched the topic and am impartial about it that you should call me a birther without knowing anything about me. I will be expecting an apology in your next response should you choose to give one as a matter of decency and maturity.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 01:00 AM

Expecting an apology? I might have given one if you had asked for one. But you presume too much.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 01:03 AM

Good luck getting that apology. Wouldn't hold your breath.

That's true about Shirley/Stanley Dunham (name confusion seems to run in the family). Dunham traveled a lot, too, and she may not have met the residency requirements, in addition to the age thing.

And I apologize for calling her a whore. I should have said she was a slut. She slept around a lot. There are lists on the internet, by I don't even want to honor the slut by doing a search. I personally think Barry/Barack looks more like his future father in law Barry Soetoro than Barack Obama Sr., so who knows. Bill Clinton's mother was a slut too. What was his story...that his father was truck driver or something?

Obama/Soetoro is an impostor. He's a fraud. Now HE'S a whore. And I'm not talking about his whole homosexual two-step thing, he's just a corporate whore. Now THAT'S something we can all agree on.