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Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)

John OSh 21 Jul 99 - 05:13 PM
bbc 21 Jul 99 - 01:51 PM
Mike Strobel 21 Jul 99 - 12:57 PM
annamill 21 Jul 99 - 11:55 AM
katlaughing 21 Jul 99 - 11:45 AM
Jack (who is called Jack) 21 Jul 99 - 11:38 AM
Ferret 21 Jul 99 - 04:22 AM
SeanM 21 Jul 99 - 12:45 AM
John Hindsill 20 Jul 99 - 11:23 PM
gargoyle 20 Jul 99 - 10:40 PM
Big Mick 20 Jul 99 - 09:33 PM
j0_77 20 Jul 99 - 09:11 PM
alison 20 Jul 99 - 08:37 PM
Legal Eagle 20 Jul 99 - 07:06 PM
Melodeon 20 Jul 99 - 07:03 PM
katlaughing 20 Jul 99 - 05:35 PM
Peter T. 20 Jul 99 - 05:31 PM
Ferret 20 Jul 99 - 05:24 PM
Bill D 20 Jul 99 - 04:32 PM
katlaughing 20 Jul 99 - 04:28 PM
The Shambles 20 Jul 99 - 04:14 PM
Richard Bridge 20 Jul 99 - 02:44 PM
Joe Offer 20 Jul 99 - 02:22 PM
The Shambles 20 Jul 99 - 02:12 PM
catspaw49 20 Jul 99 - 01:52 PM
Night Owl 20 Jul 99 - 01:36 PM
Art Thieme 20 Jul 99 - 12:50 PM
Peter T. 20 Jul 99 - 12:45 PM
Fadac 20 Jul 99 - 12:36 PM
katlaughing 20 Jul 99 - 12:28 PM
Peter T. 20 Jul 99 - 12:26 PM
Rick Fielding 20 Jul 99 - 10:59 AM
Margo 20 Jul 99 - 10:58 AM
Alice 20 Jul 99 - 10:33 AM
Peter T. 20 Jul 99 - 10:26 AM
Big Mick 20 Jul 99 - 09:56 AM
Allan C. 20 Jul 99 - 08:11 AM
SueH 20 Jul 99 - 08:08 AM
Joe Offer 20 Jul 99 - 04:56 AM
The Shambles 20 Jul 99 - 04:30 AM
Roger the zimmer 20 Jul 99 - 03:52 AM
MAG (inactive) 20 Jul 99 - 03:37 AM
bseed(charleskratz) 20 Jul 99 - 02:17 AM
mountain tyme 20 Jul 99 - 01:36 AM
gargoyle 20 Jul 99 - 01:19 AM
Banjer 20 Jul 99 - 01:14 AM
dick greenhaus 20 Jul 99 - 01:12 AM
Big Mick 20 Jul 99 - 12:48 AM
Night Owl 20 Jul 99 - 12:20 AM
Bill D 20 Jul 99 - 12:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: John OSh
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 05:13 PM

No to Censorship!

The basis of most "folk" music, whether it be from America, Great Britian, Ireland, China, etc ad nauseum is often based in contraversy. People wrote songs about their lives and times and events which they percieved.

The incontravertable fact of the matter is that this being a "free" forum to dicuss music or events or just stream of though gives a marketplace of ideas, a free exchange of thoughts and opinions oan feelings which others can react to or think on, much as music is suppposed to encourge free expression of ideals. I post occasionally, but often just log on and check out what is being said.

With the world being diverse as it is, everyone must understand that people have differing thoughts on topics, and express them in various ways.

While as a matter of general respect, personal attacks and blantant, hurtful expressions of topics such as racism, religious intolerence, etc should be avioded and not tolerated by all members of the forum, one should also keep a general open mind to others ideas and thoughts.

Always remember, well expressed thoughts are always more effectve at bring a point than using a "sword" slash approach.

Now, off my high horse and no to cersorship!

John OSh


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: bbc
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 01:51 PM

Really good thoughts, Jack & Mike. When I read Jack's post, I reflected on the Mudcat Resources site & the thread on wanting to "employ" Dick Greenhaus. One of the nice points of doing something voluntarily (free) is that you get to decide what you do, how you do it, & in what timeframe. Many times, money changing hands constrains freedom of choice. Thanks for reminding us that this is Max's website, at which we are guests. I think I heard Mike asking us to be *nice* guests.

bbc

BTW, Joe, I realize that not all will do so. You're right--once we are grown, we don't tend to change much because of what others tell us. As we learned in the Dalai Lama joke, change comes from within. :)


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Mike Strobel
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 12:57 PM

Dear BBC & Fellow Mudcats, First of all, BBC's written comments were an excellent example of a kind heart , via the written word. The clarity of these thoughts stated the issues and observations which are missing from personal conversations, that, I'm sure we all realize. However, the ability for all " Mudcatters ", to support each other through these new electronic mediums is a luxury/tool/vehicle that we should cherish and till like a garden. The garden requires dedication in order to produce a floral and/or vegatable bounty and ideally if we choose to dedicate ourselves to liberal, yet , respectful communication, then we will always be sure all the flowers ( opinions ) or the vegatables ( voices ) will grow and be heard.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: annamill
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 11:55 AM

jackwicJ,

I have a very strong feeling that you are a lawyer!! Maybe even a judge. Maybe even a supreme court judge.

Very well expressed as Katlaughing says. I guess we do need a certain amount of discrete choice. After having met the powers that be, I feel very safe with their choices.

Intellegent and honorable, they are!

Love, annap


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 11:45 AM

JackwicJ, you put your finger right on it! Excellent point! Thanks,

kat


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Jack (who is called Jack)
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 11:38 AM

I have no problem with the regulation and inhibition of any forum by an individual or group provided that the said forum is essentially the sole property and creation of said private individual or group.

If you publish a newspaper, you get to print what you want (within the bounds of laws against libel, the improper use of copyrighted intellectual property without consent, government secrets, or inciting speech, etc...). You also get to exclude what you don't want to print. That's not censorship, thats private discretion, which is a cornerstone of free speech. In other words, free speech doesn't just mean that you can say or publish whatever you want, it means that you don't have to repeat or publish something just because some other person or agency wants you to do so.

The confusion occurs when people believe that THEY THEMSELVES are publishing on Mudcat. The truth is that while they are doing the writing, it is Mudcat in the persons of Dick, Max, Susan et al, which is doing the publishing.

So in the current context, those who submit these writings are enjoying the full excersise of their rights by being able to write what they want and to freely send it to another party with a request that it be published by that other party. On the other hand those associated with Mudcat are enjoying full excercise of THEIR free speech rights by having descretion over whether they actually do publish it. The fact that Mudcat is currently choosing a priori to publish just about anything that comes in does not imply a waiver of that basic privelege.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Ferret
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 04:22 AM

seanM is that Fried or boiled.

Ferret


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: SeanM
Date: 21 Jul 99 - 12:45 AM

On behalf of myself and hopefully the rest of the gang, it would appear that the answer to the thread's title is a resounding NO. As guilty as I am of BSing as much as everyone else is, can we drop this subject and get back to the possums?

M


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: John Hindsill
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 11:23 PM

I really cannot believe that anyone would want to censor this forum! While I do no agree with many postings, either as to content or intent, I think we would be poorer for the lack of them. Sometimes what we perceive in a written posting is not intended; as I told Catspaw49 in the chat room, inflection is everything and is lost in a simple written statement. Even where the comments become ad hominum I subscribe to the old sayings of "sticks and stones" and "I'm rubber, you're glue"

What would we censor if censor we did? Trade union songs? Anti-union songs? Murder ballads? National anthems? Gospel music? Nursery songs? and etc. And the discussions about these and other topics, would they be taboo? I would hope no.

For Melodeon, hate to tell you that facists (big F or little f) don't have the market on censorship. I cite Orwell's "1984" as what Communism did, and maybe does yet. Too, is not P.C. a form of censorship imposed by the Left? Yeah, I think so.

Somebody famous said that the antidote to free speech is more free speech. While I may not have it exactly right, I think it an apt aphorism for us.---John


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: gargoyle
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 10:40 PM

Ok....I'll take the blame....

I censored you with a "hack."

Glad to be the Smoo....

Let's get back to music.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 09:33 PM

My last word on this subject is that no one should make any assumptions as to who did this. Thank you, Alison (otherwise known as THE FAIR ALISON) for letting them know that you were witness. I had no intentions of mentioning names and I am grateful that you have lent credibility. I want to say that I do not believe that Joe Offer, Max, Dick or Susan had anything to do with this. You may think that that eliminates all possibilities, but let me assure you it does not. I have watched this site for a considerable amount of time. I believe these people to be honorable and do not believe they had anything to do with it. It was relatively minor and has not occurred since despite plenty of occasions where I am sure these fine people would have loved to exercise the option. I think that we all know that there will be no censorship here. Let's give this one a rest. There is no debate.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: j0_77
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 09:11 PM

NO

Readers will notice, I am sure, that I don't post a lot and if so the postings are direct - no wussy stuff fer me - anywho - seein as this is a self examination time - I will let ya'll in on a secret - the reason I do not get into more debates is cause I am tooo busy doing music or my lil 10 cent busines - (I barely survive) - and if I wuz a jouralist I would still be against censorship - gargoyle take note -

But I admit I do go overboard at times sorry to those I made mad - I am a musician and studying ways to say **** 0 **8 etc *nicely* to non-musicians who mess with my head, but I am no politician. I ain't got the time :)

PHEW


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: alison
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 08:37 PM

Shambles,

It did happen as Mick said. I am a witness, but I can't remember what is was about.... and like he said he's willing to drop it, so should the rest of us.

Slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Legal Eagle
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 07:06 PM

But then, Sham, I would not be able to see or hear your point.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Melodeon
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 07:03 PM

The great thing about MUDCAT as far as I'm conceerned is that a thread on censorship (a subject beloved by fascists, Hoover, Maggy Thatcher and their like) throws up something fascinating. I refer of course to the 'ethermotor'and the almost 3 cylinder VW. Would this get censored if some had their wicked way with our forum.

Melodeon


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 05:35 PM

Well put, Ferret.

Soooo soooorrryyyy, Peter!***BIG GRIN**** My search didn't turn up anything, but next time I talk to my dad, I'll ask him if he's ever heard of them.

kat


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 05:31 PM

rats kat, I was serious! A Net search did turn up something called Aether Drops, and there is sewing machine oil, but! rats! (it was a good gotcha, all the same!)
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Ferret
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 05:24 PM

You can pleas most of the people most of time, but you can't pleas all the people all of the time

Remember Jaw, Jaw, is far better than War, War.

I have fond the caters that I have disagreed with often more interesting than some of the one I have concerned with.

That is to say it make's you think it is. And can be very thought provoking. And the forum is safe place for this to happen people my get offended but not physically hurt. There is always the ability to ignore some thing you fin offensive and not respond.

I would like to remind some of the definition of forum in the Dictionary

1: A meeting for the open discussion of subjects of public interest.

2: A medium for open discussion.

3: A public meeting place for open discussion.

If you censor it, it will by definition not be open discussion this does not give an excuse for rudeness. Those who have to result to this tack have usually lost the discussion (Remember empty vessels make the most noise)

So NO to censorship. Yes to self restrant.

All the best

ferret


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 04:32 PM

fadac...had one of them VW's...a bus! 56 bus with a 59 engine...and that back cylinder on the left,(#3?)was always giving trouble...but the deal with a VW, then was, you could pull the engine..set it on a bench, and mess with it!..(I had that b&w book written by the hippie, and a buddy who loved yo tinker!0


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 04:28 PM

Gotcha PeterT.! I thought you'd see the tongue in cheek?:-) No Ethel, but my mother-in-law did sew and Rog still pronounces words strangely. I just made up Ethel and her drops. Sorry, it brings you no closer to a solution. Do you have a link where we can hear it?

Fadac: I used to own a Ford Cortina (English). It was an adventure to drive. Whenever I put it in reverse, I'd have to lift up the carpet, take the plate off of the trannie, stick a screwdriver between the gears and pop it out, so that I could drive forward again! Lotta fun, NOT!

kat


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 04:14 PM

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 02:44 PM

I just decided to censor myself. I'll probably go deaf or blind.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 02:22 PM

Drop it, Shambles. Apparently, some sort of misdirected censorship did happen once, and the perpetrator was aparently a JoeClone® in training. It happened one time, and probably won't happen again. OK?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 02:12 PM

Just to show that this is a pretty regular occurence. Thread courtesy etc;.

Well I'm still no wiser, I know Mick said it happened. For the point I made earlier, it does matter to me to know if this is correct?

Then I will be only too pleased to leave it alone.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:52 PM

Thank you Art..........and I did read your post re: live in Area A, sleep in Area B, throw a cr*p in Area C ala Ol' Lenny and I should have gone back and backed you up then.......my apologies.

Reasonable courtesy in honest face to face debate should be a requirement. I would like to emphasize that face to face part. Asking as Seed did for garg to send the vitriol privately is fine. I do have a problem with the hypocrisy of secreting real thoughts while portraying something else.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Night Owl
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:36 PM

This is useless information I think...BUT...someone a while ago wrote a VERY visual description of how they saw the Mudcat in their mind's eye...talking about entering a very comfortable welcoming house with different activities going on in each room...Irish music in one room, Blues in another, warm conversation in the kitchen...etc. and that the excitement here was the ability to choose which room to sit in.
Allan C. Your post described, incredibly accurately, our long gone General Store here...(A&P came) Neighbors could share their news and sit for a bit...the common bond we had there was respect for our community's history. The older people shared their stories of growing up and lessons learned to us "younger" people, but the conversations were by no means restricted to local history or current events. People were continually coming in and asking questions, maybe join us for a bit, sharing where they were from..and leaving. The chairs were set to one side of the pickle barrel, and a few feet away was a large brick of cheese...if customers guessed the correct weight of the cheese slices they cut, it was free. We gradually came to care very deeply if one of the "regulars" was sick, having a rough time or missing for any length of time. It was never an "exclusive" group but respect for the history and comraderie of the store was required in order to enjoy spending any length of time there and coming back again. Different individuals sat around the pickle barrel for over a hundred years, long before I participated, and would have continued long after I left. Thanks for the imagery/memory.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:50 PM

minimal censorship sure beats love it or leave it...

This isn't brain surgery, friends. It's folk music. and recent threads are chasing away people who DO know what that means and, in turn, allowing those who don't have a clue to stick around.

Art

(who won't goose-step blindly in the name of love and peace or anything else)


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:45 PM

kat, you may be onto something here. There is a reference in the song to sewing. In the song the E is long (as in Aether) -- not short as in Ethel. Was Ethel a person (like a picture with a lady on it on the can?)
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Fadac
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:36 PM

Speaking of lube. The very best for critical instruments is...whale oil. Yes that is not pc, but long time ago, I had a small jar of the stuff. The best part was that it would never gum up. Used to use it on things like adding machines, clocks, typewriters, firearms, etc. Oh, yes, my mother's sewing machine. Of course you can't get it anymore. There is supposed to be a replacement, but after a while it gums up and messes up the works.

I had a three speed, three cylinder VW, one time. No 3rd gear and no #3 cylinder. Ran like crap.

-Fadac


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:28 PM

My Rog is from New Hampshire. He puts an "r" on the end of words making them odd, such as "idea(r), and Marth(r), instead of idea and Martha; then he would drop an "r" in words like Hawthorne, so it comes out Haw-thawn. Reminded me of my English landlady always going on about the la(w)r.

Anyway, he told me he remembers this from when he was a kid: his mom sewed a lot; very thrify woman. Whenever she needed to oil her sewing machine motor, she'd go buy a little can of what WE would call "Ethel's Motor Drops; but, being the Yankees they were, it always came out "Ether's Motor drops".

Rick, I had one of those cars, too! Only our motor was mounted on the roof; then it really looked like the alien spacecraft model they used for the design.

kat


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:26 PM

I sure could use some of those good old Ethermotor Drops right now, sitting here on the old Mudcat porch listening to the banjo music of Dock Boggs, with the Rick Fielding CD expected any moment through the Sear catalogue, and in the near distance that most beautiful of all sounds: human beings raising their hearts in harmonious song. All that I would then lack would be sweet Alice by my side, and surely then we would move on through the summer in blitheness and grace.
How's that?
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 10:59 AM

I used to have one of the all time bizarre cars. Does anyone remember the AMC Pacer? Lots of window space, that's for sure. The strange thing about this one though was that the motor was on the outside of the car, affixed with duct tape.(Oh, and did I forget to tell you that it was fuelled by ether, rather than gas?) T'was still a very unreliable car though, so I purchased a second motor and taped it to the other side. Well naturally people were always asking me questions about it, and I'd have to explain that when "either ethermotor drops off, the other ethermotor will keep the car going".
Hi Alice, hope that helps.
rick


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Margo
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 10:58 AM

Gargoyle, if you stayed for the ANARCHY, then why are you in favor of imposing rules?

Folks, this is incredible. It's just like a novel like "The Lord of the Flies" (No comments about who's Piggy, OK?). Here we are, brought together by a common bond; music. Then the regulars find familiarity. Then the controversy creeps in, controversy that is borne of human nature and all it's good and bad.

Government, IMHO, is a necessary evil. We want to be free and self governing. In our case, what are we suggesting that might be the reason for cencorship or 6 to 1 rules? As far as I can gather, the reasons are:

emotional distress (hurt feelings)
personal preference (want for more music posts)

So it boils down to
1)I can't help but respond to nastiness so I vote for cencorship to protect my feelings
2)I don't see this forum being what Iwant it to be so we should set rules.

Hey, I might be wrong, but the above reasons sounds like immaturity to me. There is a sure fire way to avoid being hurt by an offending person's posts: don't read them. If you don't like Margarita, you can see it's her post before you read it.

You can avoid the BS posts by not reading them. Leave the BS to the BS-ers, and move on.

As far as I can figure, that should settle this whole mess. (I've been called many things, including simplistic) So let me have it guys. Am I off base here?

Margarita


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Alice
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 10:33 AM

Gee, Peter, can you use "Ethermotor drops" in a sentence for me? ;->


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 10:26 AM

Positive thread creep (as JO suggests): Anyone know what Ethermotor drops are?(not having much luck in that thread).
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 09:56 AM

I can assure you that this has happened on the one occasion that I know of. I do not believe it to be a practice of this forum, or even to have happened more than this one time. As I said, if that were the case, I would no longer be here. It happened about 6 months ago, a post that I had put in had been modified.

Please do not get to focused on this. I believe that Dick, Susan & Max have absolutely no intention of allowing this to go on. I probably erred in not bringing it to their attention when it happened. But it absolutely did happen and it caused me some distress at the time and I have watched since and seen no more of it. I believe it may have been a misguided attempt to avoid having controversy. My comments were not personal nor were they offensive in any profane way. I believe it to have been a misguided attempt at keeping harmony on the 'Cat.

I have such love for this place that I find myself regretting that I have even brought this up. Let us be aware of this, but let us not endanger our community with it. I beg you.

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Allan C.
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 08:11 AM

I got to thinking about the suggestion made to proportionalize or otherwise limit the non-music threads. Here is a thought I had a few days ago which sums up my feelings:

Picture a bunch of good friends gathered around the pickle barrel at the local general store. Many of them have lived in the area all their lives. Some moved there recently. These people have a little time on their hands and they come to the store to "just sit a spell". They talk about whatever might be of some general interest until the door opens and in walks a stranger who asks the group directions to the old vinegar mill. Well, now the members practically fall over each other trying to point and tell the stranger the "best way" to get there. After a short time the stranger thanks them and leaves. Then the conversation, perhaps one about the myriad uses for a 'possum, resumes.

So, with this image in mind, I have to say that to limit the quantity of BS threads could have an effect equal to that of putting up a "No Loitering" sign at the store.

As to deleting specific posts. In other forums I have been witness to some very good reasons for that being a necessity. In fact, I saw an instance in which a webmaster denied the "cookie" of a particularly obnoxious person. That person had inflicted wounding remarks upon a number of "regulars" and had also done far worse in private emails. I fully support both of these forms of censorship.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: SueH
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 08:08 AM

I vote no to censorship.

I am also very much in favour of ignoring deliberately provocative or inflammatory threads. I am sure there have been several posted recently just to see what reaction they trigger.

I think there is a tendency to be too analytical here. Why has someone decided to leave, etc. No group or individual can hope to be all things to all people, but I think that Mudcat does a pretty good job. If you have an enquiry about music, then someone will instantly help you out if they possibly can. Therefore Mudcat is fulfilling its basic function. A diversity of threads is what stops it from becoming a sterile environment. Does anyone honestly expect to find only threads which are of interest to them? Even if only music threads were allowed, this would hardly be the case, as 'folk' music is such a generic term.

We all have the choice of which threads to read & which to ignore. It seems to me that by entering into endless discussion over whether there are too many non-music threads, whether someone was being too personal/offensive/inflammatory etc, is not only perpetuating but also increasing any problems.

Sue


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 04:56 AM

Well, it's the first I've heard of anything that might be considered censorship. As I have confessed in the past, there were a couple times that I deleted messages that I felt were personal attacks that were directly harmful to individuals. I have disagreed with Mick - strongly, on occasion - but to his face, in open discussion. As far as I know, nobody has censored anything here. It sure has been tempting these last few days, though....
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 04:30 AM

I still don't think that there IS any such bias in the forum. I would feel a little foolish however, having taken pains to assure Mick that there was no such bias operating here, to find that his views (or any others) had in fact been censored in the past........ If this has happened, it would certainly go some way to explain why he may detect such a bias and feel as he does?

Without going in to the issues involved and before this gets permanently embedded in the 'urban mythology' of The Mudcat, is this true, did such a thing happen?


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 03:52 AM

As another librarian I'm also against censorship. I don't read all threads, and have resisted the temptation to contribute to controversial non-music ones, (though not to the temptation to add my own dreadful jokes to humour threads) but if you respond to one that offends you, then the "offender" has probably got the result he/she wants. If no-one else posts, then the thread dies.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 03:37 AM

I'm against censorship. but bbc, as a fellow librarian, knew that.

MA


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 02:17 AM

Alice, I am pretty sure you are not the Mac user referred to above (notice the connection to aol). Gargoyle, I can't use the dragdown members list box on the personal messages page so I can't send messages to you personally. If you send me a message, I can respond and you can vent to me personally and neither of us will have to inflict this stuff on the rest of the group. --seed


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: mountain tyme
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:36 AM

Sorry I'm late....I got engrossed on the Why A Duck page. Each one of us censors what we say.... Each one of us censors what we read.... Where's the rub?


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: gargoyle
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:19 AM

Thanks dick....the legitimate music data drew me here.

But I stayed for the anarchy.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Banjer
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:14 AM

Yeah, Mick....Well put, as usual.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 01:12 AM

Copied from another thread...

Anger, hurt feelings and off-topic drifting are part of the price you pay for anarchy. If nobody rises to the bait, unsuitable postings simply fall off the bottom of the thread list. If someone wants to join in a fight, there'll be a fight (a virtual fight, anyway).
Nobody's going to censor the Mudcat.
Nobody's going to impose his/her idea of helpful organization upon it.
If Mudcatters can't figure out how to avoid reading threads that are annoying to them, we'd better fold the whole thing up.
End of didactic diatribe.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:48 AM

You have got to be kidding!! The debate threads have produced some of the most memorable writings in the 'Cat. Have you noticed that flamers just die out, folks. People of integrity can have disagreements, they may even get ugly. Sometimes people like Martin (IMHO) take misguided steps. But the ups far outweigh the downs. Once, someone edited one of my posts in which we disagreed. I am saying this now for the first time. Yes (and you know who you are), I did notice but in the interest of not creating a stir I didn't say anything except to a friend to see if they had noticed and they did too. I almost left the 'Cat over it. I have not seen it since, and if I thought that were going to be the practice, I would be gone.

My position has not changed. We are an amazing community of people who have discourse on music and the issues which spawn it. Done with respect, we can be a venue for understanding. Isn't that what we seek to be when we sing the songs of the people. Isn't one of the purposes of folk music about helping others to feel the feelings of others? Doesn't that promote good in the world. Leave our 'Cat alone, got it?

Mick


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Night Owl
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:20 AM

No to censorship.


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Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 12:19 AM

seems there was a post while I was typing....I used to complain a bit myself about the ratios of 'folk' to other things..but I always left it up to Max to decide..I still wonder if that is not a good plan..


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