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Lyr Req: The Pressed Man's Lamentation

sionnach 01 Oct 09 - 07:17 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 01 Oct 09 - 07:55 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 01 Oct 09 - 08:20 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 01 Oct 09 - 09:13 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 01 Oct 09 - 09:18 AM
sionnach 01 Oct 09 - 07:35 PM
Ross Campbell 01 Oct 09 - 11:28 PM
Anglo 02 Oct 09 - 02:08 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 02 Oct 09 - 07:01 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 02 Oct 09 - 11:54 AM
sionnach 14 Oct 09 - 10:13 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 15 Oct 09 - 05:18 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 15 Oct 09 - 06:38 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 15 Oct 09 - 08:03 AM
Steve Gardham 15 Oct 09 - 11:22 AM
sionnach 19 Oct 09 - 10:53 PM
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Subject: Napoleonic War Song - Charley Yarwood
From: sionnach
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:17 AM

I'm looking for more info about a song Charley sings on "Hooks and Nets". The song begins:
Farewell our wives and children
our friends we must bid adieu
for the press gang they have pressed us
for to fight a daring foe.

I couldn't find it in the Roud index, and Ian Woods can't remember its title or provenance. It does sound Napoleonic, but that may be a red herring.

Anybody out there help?


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Subject: RE: Napoleonic War Song - Charley Yarwood
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:55 AM

Looks like the title is The Pressed Man's Lamentation (see Mustrads Traditional Discography - TSR44).

I still can't see it in Roud or at Bodleian. There is a reference to it in The Ballads and Songs of Derbyshire, 1867 (P182) on a sheet with The Derbyshire Militia: On the same sheet is "The Pressed Man's Lamentation", a song of four verses, beginning, "Farewell our Daddies and Our Mammies.

And this reference at Oberlin College: The Pressed Man's Lamentation, tells me there's a copy in Roy Palmer's The Sound of History. So if you give me time to get that from the bookshelf, I'll see what I can do.

Mick


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE PRESSED MAN'S LAMENTATION
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:20 AM

Palmer has little to say about the ballad: In balladry, press-gangs are almost invariably shown in an unfavourable light. ... 'The Press'd Man's Lamentation' (see illustration) represents the norm. The press-gang effectively ceased to be used after 1815....

There is a photograph of the sheet from Derby PL and I give the text below.

Mick



THE PRESSED MAN'S LAMENTATION

Farewell our Daddies and our Mammies,
Out friends & relations we must bid adieu,
For the Press-gang they have press'd us,
For to fight our daring Foe:
Now the bloody War's beginning,
Many thousands will be slain,
And it more than ten to one,
If any of us return again.

To hear the cries in every city,
Likewise in every market Town.
'Twill make your heart to bleed with pity,
For to hear the press'd men moan:
Now we are press'd and put in Prison,
Where for a season we must stay,
Till the bloody war calls for us,
For to cross the raging sea.

It grieves us fore to leave our parents.
Likewise our wives and children dear;
To hear them round the prison crying,
From our eyes brings floods of tears,
It must be a dreadful meeting,
When we quit this british shore.
When we go to the field of battle,
Where the thundering cannons roar.

Now, good people, give attention,
To these lines which here are penn'd,
And the wars may soon be over,
That we may soon return again;
To be a comfort to our wives,
And enjoy our children dear,
But in the wars there is great danger,
Many of us will be killed I fear.


Source: Roy Palmer The Sound of History, photo of sheet in Derby PL


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE PRESS'D MAN'S LAMENTATION
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 09:13 AM

Seems to be in Ashton Real Sailor Songs, 1891 - picture on that link - you can enlarge it by clicking. This version starts "Farewell our wives and dearest children", so might have been Charley's Source. I don't have the book (and it's not available at Google or Archive yet) but someone else may be able to check if there's more than below, (from the picture of the sheet on my linked page), which is only the first half of the Derby sheet.

Mick



THE PRESS'D MAN'S LAMENTATION

Farewell our Wives and dearest Children,
Our friends and relations we must bid adieu,
For the Press-gang they have press'd us,
For to fight the daring foe.

Now the bloody war's beginning,
Many thousands will be slain,
And it is more than ten to one,
If any of us return again.

To hear the cries in every City,
Likewise in every Seaport town,
'T will make your heart to bleed with pity,
For to hear the press'd men mourn.

Now we are press'd and put in prison,
Where for a season we must stay,
Till the bloody wars call for us,
For to cross the raging Sea.


Source: Ashton: Real Sailor Songs, 1891


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Subject: RE: Napoleonic War Song - Charley Yarwood
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 09:18 AM

Incidentall, the Ashton reference is in the Roud Broadside index.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Napoleonic War Song - Charley Yarwood
From: sionnach
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:35 PM

Wow, that's a pretty comprehensive answer, just what I was after! And it's given me links that might be useful and/or interesting again in the future.

Many thanks Mick.

Dave.


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Subject: RE: Napoleonic War Song - Charley Yarwood
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 11:28 PM

The above four verses are on Page 30 of "Real Sailor Songs" with a ship/sailor/cliffs woodcut decoration at the top, the whole surrounded by a leaf border pattern, so I guess whoever transcribed the above lines could easily have thought that was the whole song. (Shown in Mick's link above).

Page 31 contains the following verses, with a city/riverscape (Tower of London/Thames?) woodcut set below:-

It grieves us sore to leave our parents,
Likewise our friends and children dear;
To hear them round the prisons crying,
From our eyes bring floods of tears.

It must be a dreadful parting,
When we quit old England's shore,
When we go to the field of battle,
To hear the thundering cannons roar.

Now, good people, give attention,
To these lines, which I have penn'd,
And pray the wars may soon be over,
That we may soon return again.

To be a comfort to our wives,
And enjoy our children dear,
But in the wars there is great danger,
Many of us will be kill'd I fear.


This is from "The Broadsheet King" reprint (1973), which appears to be a photographic reproduction of the original.

Ross


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Subject: RE: Napoleonic War Song - Charley Yarwood
From: Anglo
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 02:08 AM

I haven't heard "Hooks & Nets" and it seems there's no source for a tune in the published material. What tune does Charley use? (An ABC would be nice, if that's not too hard.)


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Subject: RE: Napoleonic War Song - Charley Yarwood
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:01 AM

Ross - thanks for the other half of the song. I suspected (from the Derby sheet) that the picture on my link was only the first half of the song.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Napoleonic War Song - Charley Yarwood
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 11:54 AM

I was going to do an abc, but couldn't find Hooks and Nets, though I thought I'd posted something from it last year. When I checked back through the threads I discover I couldn't find it then either!

If anyone wants to they can email me a verse and I'll do an abc; pm me for email address.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Pressed Man's Lamentation
From: sionnach
Date: 14 Oct 09 - 10:13 PM

Right. Here's an attempt at an abc. I've never done one before, so I've made up my own conventions:
1. lower case letters are an octave higher than their upper case counterparts.
2. The line below the notes tries to give an indication of note length (with bar lines thus | in a slow 2/4). On this line, m = minim, c = crotchet, q = quaver, and c: = dotted crotchet. - before a note length indicates a tie.

                                                 Fare- |
                                                 A    |
                                                 c    |

well our | wives and | children_|___; our__ |
D    D   | E    D   | C-D D   |    F   g |
c:   q   | c:    q   | q q c   | -c q   q |

friends we must | bid a-| dieu_|___. For the |
a       a a    | g   F | E    |    F   G   |
c       q q    | c   c | m    | -c q   q   |

press | gang they_|___ have | press-ed__ | us_|___, for to |
a    | G E F    |    E    | D E   D C# | A |    A   G |
m    | q q c    | -c c    | q q   q q | m | -c q   q |

fight a | dar- ing | foe_|___
A    F | E    F E | D   |
c:    q | c    q q | m   | -c

Lines three and four are repeated.

Hope that helps!
Dave


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Pressed Man's Lamentation
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 05:18 AM

sionnach - I'm just converting this to standard abc and if I understand your notation correctly, it looks like an adaptation of Mr.Potipher's tune for Bushes And Briars.

I've just got to recheck it (some of the octaves look odd, but that's probably me misinterpreting your notation) and then I'll post it.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Pressed Man's Lamentation
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 06:38 AM

Here's what I think your tune is in standard abc. I've assumed your notes convert to abc as:

   sionnach   abc
   A          A,
   C          C
   D          D
   ..         ..
   G          G
   a          A


(The only note that seems odd in the transciption is your g at the end of your 2nd line, which I think should be G (but maybe not!)).

Here's the abc version based on that:

X: 1
T:Pressed Man's Lamentation
M:2/4
L:1/8
S:sionnach's transcription from Hooks And Nets
K:Dm
A,2| D3 D| E3 D|(CD) D2-|D2
w:Fare-well our wives and child_ren;_
(FG)| A2 AA|G2 F2| E4-|E2
w:Our_ friends we must bid a-dieu,_
FG|A4|GE F2-|F2 E2|(DE) (D^C)|A,4-|A,2
w:For the press gang_ they_ have press_ed_ us,_
A,G,|A,3 F|E2 (FE)|D4-|D2|]
w:For to fight a dar-ing_ foe._


Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Pressed Man's Lamentation
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 08:03 AM

I sing this one meself from time to time, Charleys tune is a minor variant of "Through Bushes and Through Briars"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Pressed Man's Lamentation
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 11:22 AM

BL has a copy, probably Ashton's source.

BL 11621 c 5 47.5
It is in 'The Complaining Lady's Garland'


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Pressed Man's Lamentation
From: sionnach
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 10:53 PM

Thanks everyone for your contributions! I've located the tune of Bushes and Briars in Roy Palmer's edited selection of Vaughan Williams' collection (p. 27) and yes, this is a variant of that.


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