Recordings of Shallow Brown?

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: shipcmo
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:01 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 11:16 AM

My turn to apologise Erich... Brain went a nodding when I go that far along in the thread.

So it has been sung in capstan and pulling. Now I need to listen to some of those field recordings to get a proper feel.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST,Erich
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 10:48 AM

Sorry, Virginia Tam, but my answer was went to the original question of Mary Katherine.

I think your question has been answered above by Gibb Sahib.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 10:41 AM

Thanks Erich but your list does not answer my question and may divert others who know the answer from seeing my request. I really don't want to start a specific thread about it when this one should suffice.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST,Erich
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 10:37 AM

This is what I found in my database:

Tundra (Songs from Greenwich)
Tom Sullivan (Salt Atlantic Chanties)
Peter Bellamy (Wake the Vaulted Echoes)
Pete & Chris Coe (Game of All Fours)
Coope, Boyes & Simpson (Hindsight)
Tony Hall (Fieldvole Music)
Hex (Sleep when you're dead)
Jolly Jack (Rolling down to old Maui)
Tune Tabor (Aleyn)
Pete Watkinson (Shanties & Songs of the Sea)
Bernard Wrigley (Sea Shanties)

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 10:23 AM

I am now learning this song. And I have listened to both the Boat Band and June Tabor versions. Both wonderful / interesting in their own ways.

What I want to know - is this song considered a shanty and if so what kind of shanty? On the June Tabor sleeve notes it is attributed as a pulling song, though her delivery clearly does not indicate so, beautiful as it is.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST,jenkinspoj
Date: 18 Oct 09 - 08:00 PM

Richard Dyer-Bennet sings this song on Richard Dyer-Bennet 12 (available from Smithsonian Folkways).

Thanks, POJ

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Oct 09 - 07:27 PM

Four 'n' Aft recorded it on their cd 'Rolling the Whole World Round'. Sounds good with their harmony style.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: The Doctor
Date: 18 Oct 09 - 06:10 PM

Johnny Collins got a mention above as a backing singer, but he also recorded it on 'Sea Shanties - Chants de Marins', on the Air Mail Music label.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Pistachio
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 10:25 AM

Wow, thanks for that June Tabor link. Marvellous measured delivery!
H.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 07:00 AM

Here is a splendidly sad and lugubrious version from June Tabor. Beautifully sung.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 11:44 AM

I was about to ask Marc for any links to hear samples of Pat Sheridan and Brasy ("Rolling Home"), too. I did not find any audio, but weirdly enough I found the liner notes. Here's what they've got for "Shallow Brown."

//
14. Shallow Brown
This is a West Indies sea shanty. It started life as a pumping shanty. In the latter days of sail it was usually sung at halyards but Doerflinger states that it was used to bowse down tacks and sheets.

A version of the song was recorded around 1983 by Peter Bellamy with the Watersons', it is from a private tape in the Fellside Records archive and was released in 1999 on the Peter Bellamy retrospective Wake the Vaulted Echoes: A Celebration of Peter Bellamy (8 Sept '44 to 24 Sept '91). It demonstrates the close link between sea shanties and slave songs and was collected both by Cecil Sharp and also by Stan Hugill in his Shanties from the Seven Seas (1961).

June Tabor also recorded a version of Shallow Brown in 1997 for her album Aleyn. She commented in the sleeve notes:
Originally a pumping shanty of West Indian origin, sometimes sung as Challo Brown. Challo being Carib for half-casts (Hugill, Shanties from the Seven Seas).

Our version here is different again and was adapted from yet another version by Craig Edwards in Mystic Seaport. Ct. and could be used for halyards or capstan.

Pat sings a different capstan version of Shallow Brown on the Warp Four CD 'A Hundred Years Ago'
//

The album has an interesting track list, which I'd like to check out. A lot of the songs that a "hot" these days (does that sound weird to say????) especially in America, and in interpretations that are current, too. For example, Marc Bernier's rendition of "Dan Dan" and the Bahamas version of "Come Down You Roses."

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 11:23 AM

Marc,any details, links?

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:51 AM

Pat Sheridan recently released a recording with a Polish group. Brazzy, maybe. There is a very interesting interpretation of shallow brown on that. It could be my favorite version so far.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:09 AM

Here is an intriguing one. Bernie Holland's solo Spanish guitar transcription of Percy Grainger's arrangement of the song for voice and orchestra. A valiant attempt, and I'm sure Bernie can hear it all in his head, you can tell by the way he plays it. But in the end, I think six nylon strings can't say that much about the piece when we're missing the incredible words, the emotional power of a human voice, and the extraordinary nature of Grainger's orchestration. But definitely well worth a listen, if only for the pleasure of hearing the barebones versions of Grainger's chords.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:37 AM

The Windlasses have a great recording of this Chantey. I don't recall if it's on their self titled CD, or it might be on one of the Mystic Sea Music Festival releases. But it's a beautiful rendition, for those of you who like their sea chanteys sung beautifully.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:29 AM

Greg,
In the film it's supposed to be John Perring from whom Grainger is collecting and he (Perring) insists that it's pronounced "Shaller" Brown.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:21 AM

Well, I really want to see this movie. Never even heard of it, I must find a copy. Percy Grainger said once: "The worth of my music will never be guessed or its value to mankind felt, until the approach to it is consciously undertaken as a pilgrimage to sorrows." Given that, no wonder he fell on Shallow Brown like a wolf on a lamb, and arranged it with such extraordinary concentration and power. Shallow Brown does misery, sorrow and the endless sweep of the sea the better than any song I know; it's nice to find out(as I have only in the last few days)that Grainger was of the same mind!
    I've worshipped this song myself, since I first heard it in a pub, too. The Ship in Blaxhall, and the singer was Steve Danby. I can remember the intensity of the experience of hearing it with total clarity, and it was thirty years ago.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 03:49 AM

There's a scene in the movie "Passion" - which is based on the life of pianist/composers/folklorist Percy Grainger - where Percy hears a chap singing Shallow Brown in a pub, and then subsequently arranges the melody in a classical setting.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:09 PM

RJ-

Nice to hear the Roarin' Forties again. Thanks for the link.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 04:06 PM

I think I blew it. Sorry people. It might have been Ben Backstay I was remembering...

But I do love Cindy Mangsen's version of Shallow Brown.

One thing I am sure of: I'm sure it wasn't The Eddystone Light I was remembering. ;-)

(ART)

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 11:00 AM

Here's what the song sounds like as filtered through my brain's flawed ear, and across my gravelly grating throat and noisy Tri-state nasal passages...no thoughts of making it sound "Irish" or "Black" or "English", just my regular tone and accent :)
Shallow Brown

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: rich-joy
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 08:42 AM

As requested, here Greg, is the link for "The Roaring Forties" from Sydney :

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~roaringforties/index

Cheers,
R-J

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 06:46 AM

I imagine the Indian harmonium would have been ideal. This makes me think of Bessie Smith's majestic St Louis Blues, which was aboslutley made by the harmonium (though Louis Armstrong's trumpet was quite good as well!
More clips please, everybody!

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray) (S O'P)
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 06:42 AM

My favourite ever version of this song is a session by Kate Green, with Raymond Greenoaken on Indian harmonium.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 06:15 AM

In view of my prervious remark about the Thomas Carfrae version, I will reproduce Snuffys transcription, but remove all the queries(which basically apply to nearly every word, so dreadful is the recording quality).
So, here is the Snuffy Carfrae version:

I blame the Boston curvers on the lane but shallow sea
But it's you can pay the ocean on the road to Tandragee
Oooooh, lee coming to, and dad win the game bag evermore
Shallow, Shallow, Shallow Brown never more
Oooooh, Shallow Brown
Shallow, what's the matter?
Shallow Brown

Great eh? What was in the game bag? Maybe a battered set of playing cards,an old frayed Monopoly board, and a chess set, sea stained with pieces missing. Or was it a bag with a few partridges and a hare in it, brought aboard by a poacher? And those Boston curvers, they sound a shifty sort of bunch. What had they been up to?
(my efforts at transcribing had something vaguely like "boat to starboard" rather than Boston curvers, but I think Snuffy's is much more in keeping with the enigmatic nature of the piece)

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 06:05 AM

Yes, I was intrigued by Art's Burl Ives reference. I've never heard that, and I was sure I'd heard his nautical record.
Charley Noble: had a listen to your clip. You referred to it a traditional version. I got the impression you might have Irishified the words a little, but perhaps your source had already done that? It's fascinating the different slants the song can take, which is its magic. It's nearly always ineffably sad, but you make it Irish sad, some make it away from home sad in general, some make it slavery sad.
Snuffy valiant attempts to transcribe Thomas Carfrae's version(earlier in the thread) take the song to a new level of magical opacity!

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 05:37 AM

Art,
Unless American versions of 'Down to the Sea in Ships' included Shallow Brown, the English version on Briunswick LAT 8142 (circa 1956) doesn't; the track list is :-
A1 Jack Was Every Inch a Sailor. A2 Santy Anna (Roud 207). A3 The Eddystone Light. A4 Haul Away, Joe (Roud 809). A5 You New York Girls (Can't You Dance the Polka) (Roud 486). A6 The Sailor's Grave. A7 Leave Her, Johnny, Leave Her (Roud 354). A8 Away Rio (Roud 317). A9 Ben Backstay.
B1 Wrap Me Up in My Tarpaulin Jacket (Roud 829). B2 Blow Ye Winds (Roud 2012) (In the Morning/ Boston Come All Ye). B3 Go Down You Blood Red Roses (Roud 931). B4 Hullabaloo Belay (Roud 8339). B5 Stormalong (Roud 216). B6 The Drunken Sailor (Roud 322). B7 Highland Laddie. B8 The Golden Vanity (Roud 122/ Child #286). B9 Rolling Home (Roud 4766).

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Ken Schatz
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 10:15 PM

I agree with Barry about checking out original field recordings, if you can. No reason not to explore other singers' creative choices too, though. Helen Schneyer recorded a lovely version on her live (last) album What a Singing There Will Be.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:23 PM

A grand version (my favorite actually) was recorded by Burl Ives on an old Decca LP album of his that I once owned. It was called, if I'm remembering right, Down To The Sea In Ships.

Whew, that was a long time ago...

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 08:37 PM

Our group Roll & Go recorded a plaintive traditional version of this shanty on our first CD Outward Bound back in 2002, as led by Jennifer Caven and Eli Dale. You can check out the lyrics and a MP3 sample by following the links in our webpage: click here for lyrics and MP3 Sample!

In my opinion the track still sounds pretty good.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Pistachio
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 03:50 PM

I've just listened to the Percy Grainger link - how wonderful to hear the song as I've not heard a recording before.

Linda Kelly and I recorded Shallow Brown, linked with 'Oh Mary', in 2006 on our Sweet Minerva CD.... though the words we use must have evolved like 'chinese whispers' or gone through the 'folk process'.

Another recording was made in Hull in 2006 on a CD 'Songs of Slavery' Part of the Wilberforce 2007 Celebrations.

Hazel Richings
(Hissyfit)

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:55 AM

This is a bit of a stretch, perhaps, but could Oscar Brand have included this in one of his many albums? I have one LP of his called "Rollicking Sea Shanties" somewhere in storage. I cannot recall whether "Shallow Brown" was included, however.

Could the name "Shallow" refer to skin color, much as the term "yellow" was used, as in "The Yellow Rose of Texas?" Perhaps a student of regional vernacular of the time could shed light on this.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 10:52 AM

Links to any recordings would be great

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 03:45 AM

"The Roaring Forties" from Australia, perform it on their CD entitled : "Shore Leave" ......


R-J

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Francy
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 09:47 PM

Cindy Mangsen on her "Songs of Experience" CD 1998.....on Redwing.....Frank of Toledo

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 06:18 PM

Here is the
Percy Grainger arrangement . Whatever you think of classical arrangements of folksongs, Percy Grainger's thoughts about the power of the song are very evident. The recording is labelled initially as by Peter Pears, but apparently the singer is John Shirley-Quirk. One in a long list of very interesting readings of this extraordinary song.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: giles earle
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 10:47 AM

As I recall it, the Grainger arrangement has quite different words:

Shaller Brown, you're goin' ter leave me,
Shaller, Shaller Brown;
Shaller Brown, you're goin' ter leave me,
Shaller, Shaller Brown.

Shaller Brown, don't ne'er deceive me,
        etc

You're goin' away accrost the ocean,
        etc

You'll ever be my heart's devotion,
        etc

For your return my heart is burning,
        etc

Shaller Brown, you're goin' ter leave me,
        etc

I have Robin Doveton's old recording from the 1970s. I know purists will carp mightily at the notion of a trained ex-choral scholar tenor singing folksongs to piano accompaniment (with rhapsodic violin as well, in some of RVW's more OTT efforts), but I must say I think he makes a good job of it all, not least because it sticks out a mile that he really does love what he's singing.

Grainger did not, of course, collect his songs as a dry archive. His scores make some attempt to reflect the actual performance he recorded: even more so than, say, Jack Moeran's work, as another early-ish collector who reckoned the actual details to matter. The following paragraph is pinched from http://www.percygrainger.org/biograf4.htm --

Many of the vocal versions of folk songs include a piano part which reinforces rather than dilutes authenticity, since the piano invokes the composer's intrepid presence. Just as the chromaticism of the slow settings is renewal as well as nostalgia, so the energy of the piano part in the quick songs, working in conjunction with or in opposition to the voices, reanimates the spontaneity of the originals in terms appropriate to us. In this way the version of Six dukes went afishing, for instance, becomes modern music: not to mention the magnificent, scarily thrilling version of Shaller Brown, with the notorious tremolo accompaniment, in playing which Grainger used almost to swoon in self-intoxication. The melodrama inherent in the old tale is re-enacted as we listen, for this is no longer concert music but, strictly speaking, a Making New valid for us now, as it had been for them then. This bears on Grainger's attitude to folk-song collection, which for him was not an archaeological pursu it, as it was (he believed) for genteel Cecil Sharp. The genuine folk-song collector should attempt to record the music as it sounded, since its distonations of pitch and irregularities of rhythm were intrinsic. Nowadays, most people accept this and, with the advent of magnetic tape, there is no longer a technical problem. Even so, the significance of Grainger's stand at the time can hardly be over-estimated; the finest tribute one can pay to his arrangements is to recognise that they provide substitutes for, if not equivalents to, the 'careless rapture' of folk performance.

So there you have it

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: gnomad
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 05:33 AM

Another two for the collection: Graeme Knights on his CD 'Echoes from Afar' (HHM003). Nice simple presentation with chorus backing from Trish & Pete Watkinson, Anni Fentiman, Dave Webber, and Johnny Collins.

I also have quite a good instrumental-only version by Martin Simpson on his CD 'When I was on horseback' (Shanachie 97016) but I doubt that is the one you are hunting.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Stewie
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 09:24 PM

There was an excellent recording by Jolly Jack (Dave Weatherall, Alan Taylor, Martin Hall) on their 'Rolling Down to Old Maui' album on Fellside label.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 09:22 PM

Thanks Snuffy

You can oder the collection tru Dick Greehouse at Camsco Records here at Mudcat.

Barry

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Arkie
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 08:14 PM

Have heard versions by Louis Killen, the Crooked Jades, and June Tabor among others.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Snuffy
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 08:00 PM

Greg,

The recordings are from the James Madison Carpenter Collection: they are field recordings he made in 1929 of retired British shantymen.

Although the recording quality is abysmal, they are tremendous historical documents, and give a new perspective on how shanties were sung in the second half of the 19th century (most of these men had retired from the sea before Stan Hugill was born!)

Here's what I make of the four versions - much of it is indecipherable (to me, at any rate), so I have put down what it sounds like, without trying to force it to make sense.

Shallow Brown (William Fender, Barry)

O-oh, what is the matter?
Shallow, oh Shallow Brown.
Shallow, what is the matter?
Shallow, oh Shallow Brown.

This nigger stole my dollar
Shallow, oh Shallow Brown.
This nigger stole my dollar
Shallow, oh Shallow Brown.

And I took him by the collar
Shallow, oh Shallow Brown.
I said "You old damn nigger"
Shallow, oh Shallow Brown.

Oh, give me back my dollar
Shallow, oh Shallow Brown.
My brand new silver dollar
Shallow, oh Shallow Brown.

Shallow Brown (John Middleton, Leith)

Give me [the cock a-rising]??
Shaller, oh Shaller Brown.
Give me the cock a-rising
Shaller, oh Shaller Brown.
For I love to [run jacker]??
Shaller, oh Shaller Brown.

Shallow Brown (Thomas Carfrae, Sunderland)

O-oh, what's the matter?
Shallow, Shallow Brown.
Shallow, what's the matter?
Shallow, Shallow Brown.

[I blame the Boston curvers on the lane but shallow sea]??
[But it's you can pay the ocean on the road to Tandragee]??
[Oooooh, lee coming to, and dad win the game bag evermore]??
Shallow, Shallow, Shallow Brown never more
Oooooh, Shallow Brown
Shallow, what's the matter?
Shallow Brown

Shallow Brown (Alex Henderson, Dundee)

Shallow in the morning.
Shallow, Shallow Brown.
Oh, Shallow in the morning.
Shallow, Shallow Brown.
Oh, Shallow in the morning.
Shallow, Shallow Brown.
Oh, Shallow in the morning.
Shallow, Shallow Brown.

PM me if you would like to hear them for yourself.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 07:31 PM

Barry: could you give details of these recordings? Both how to find them, and also details of the performances(dates, locations, singers whatever)
This song is a very "important" one, so many influences have gone into its making, and the contents of the lyrics of some of the versions, and some of the tunes, make it (to me) uniquely powerful in North Atlantic folk music, black and white.
Thanks
Greg

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 05:54 PM

May I suggest listening to any field recordings first, many of us don't but it does help in understanding the song before you listen & get it from others. It's always nice to be one step away from the field when first learning a song rather than a few miles it's starting point.

While at the Getaway I just picked up from Camsco (Thanks Dick & Susan) volumes 1 & 2 of the Gardner Collection on Folktrax (141 &142). There are 4 versions of Shallow Brown (short clips actually) on vol 2. The recordings are from the field tapes & a bit rough but I'd say if you are gonna bother to learn a version don't until you've given a listen to the originals as they were sung by those that actually had to work with them under sail, at least not if you can get the chance & can, it may change the way you want to sing & present the song & it would certinally be an aid in digesting & swallowing the song before you bring it back up & out (what a nice visual??).
Good luck, it's a beautiful song

Barry

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 04:35 PM

"Peter Pears sung it in orchestral arrangement by Percy Grainger, I believe. "

Yes, there is a superb (if you like classically trained singers singing "folk") recording of it by him with the English Chamber Orchestra conducted by Benjamin Britten.

Steve

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: GUEST,Henryp
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 04:30 PM

From CHANDOS CHAN 2029 An Introduction to Percy Grainger

Based on a sea chanty collected by H.E. Piggott and Grainger
from the singing of John Perring of Dartmouth on 18 January 1908,
Shallow Brown was composed between August and December
1910.

In Grainger's words: "[Perring] was a remarkably gifted deep-sea sailor songster and said that this song was supposed to be sung by a woman standing on the quay to Shallow Brown as his ship was weighing anchor. Perring did not know why Brown was called 'Shallow' – 'unless it was that he was shallow in his heart', as he added. My setting aims to convey a suggestion of wafted, wind-borne, surging sounds heard at sea."

This is one of Grainger's most powerful works, evoking the wildness
of the sea and the intensity of parting.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 03:18 PM

Peter Pears sung it in orchestral arrangement by Percy Grainger, I believe.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 03:13 PM

Jeff Warner & Jeff Davis recorded a version on their flying fish album a few years back. Kate Early recorded a version of it on Cooper, Nelson & Early's CD Hearts Return in 1999 as well.

Subject: RE: Recordings of Shallow Brown?
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 03:06 PM

Here is an odd one. I've used Shallow Brown as a basis for a number of project with young urban musicians(DJ rapper hiphoppy grime sort of people). If you go to theBoat Band Myspace site and listen to the track called Rap Shallow Brown, you'll hear one of th tracks we made. This is a very simple acousticy version of the song(with a bit of Manchester Hornpipe inserted), with MC Meistro rapping (in a very gentle fashion compared to his normal stuff) and I-Deal singing.
There is another track we did with them on Myspace too, I think it is called REap Manchester Hornpipe or something very similar.
Be interested to knopw what anybody makes of this kind of thing!