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Re copyright/using music for research

greg stephens 09 Oct 09 - 06:35 AM
Mr Happy 09 Oct 09 - 06:41 AM
greg stephens 09 Oct 09 - 06:53 AM
Monique 09 Oct 09 - 07:02 AM
treewind 09 Oct 09 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 09 Oct 09 - 02:02 PM
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Subject: Re copyright/using music for research
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:35 AM

This is probably already asked and answered somewhere but I don't know the answer. What is the legal position on copyright recordings and using portions/whole tracks for research/discussion? I know you can freely reproduce bits of text for research purposes. How about recorded music, eg links in a Mudcat thread, or online magazine, discussing song origins or whatever? Presumably the answer may be different in different countries?


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Subject: RE: Re copyright/using music for research
From: Mr Happy
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:41 AM

Greg,

I don't know the answer, but would be interested to know why you've posed the question?


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Subject: RE: Re copyright/using music for research
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:53 AM

Well, there is a discussion on at the moment in a thread on "Recordings of Shallow Brown". Now, I have cheerfully posted links to my own recordings of the song for discussion. What, in any, would the legal position if I posted the whole, or part, of say June Tabor singing it, or some field recordings or whatever?
And there are lots of threads like this. Musical traditions, Magazine, for example, include sound clips in their reviews. Obviously, in that case the artists will be delighted with the publicity. But say they weren't? What is the position?


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Subject: RE: Re copyright/using music for research
From: Monique
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:02 AM

They'd say it's forgery.


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Subject: RE: Re copyright/using music for research
From: treewind
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:30 AM

"What, in any, would the legal position if I posted the whole, or part, of say June Tabor singing it"

If it was already on the web legitimately somewhere, there's nothing to stop you linking to it (some web sites don't like you hot-linking their images, if very popular, because of bandwidth problems, but that's a different issue)

If you copied the June Tabor recording to a .MP3 file and uploaded that to your web site, you'd be in trouble for making the copy and publishing it.

But I think you are asking if the concept of "fair use" applies to recordings. I suspect it boils down to how much material you quote - a whole song would be too much. In some contexts I think there's a "two bar" limit for music, which is followed sometimes in TV adverts which quote a tiny but recognisable snippet of a well known pop song and don't have to pay a penny for it.

Well, it's only a matter of time before Richard Bridge comes along and tells us what's what - I believe he specializes in copyright law.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Re copyright/using music for research
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:02 PM

Mr. Bridge - portrays himself as a UK copyright X-Spurt.

His bullying of a young Indian school teacher - who wanted to
use folk music in her classroom - sent me off on a quest regarding
UK, Indian, and USA laws on copyright and fair-use.

Thankfully, most of the world is no longer under the dominion
of the British crown. Thankfully, too, some of that old empire
are changing their laws and using the USA rather than the UK
for guidance on the issue.

The boundless borders of the internet have changed access
to materials. A college student in Iowa does not cower at the
addition of the three letters E.S.Q. at the end of some noble
knob's name. There is still freedom in the electronic frontier.

Paraphrased loosely from New Delhi - Supreme CourtIndia:
List before the Joint Registrar on 22nd October, 2008.
Dated: 17th September 2008 S RAVINDRA BHAT, J

32. No copyright is granted in ideas, facts or information. This
creates a public pool of information and idea from which everyone can draw
All creativity is in part derivative, in that, no creativity is completely original;
each advance stands on building blocks fashioned by prior thinkers
(Bernard Shaw expressed it by saying thatShakespeare was a
"tall man", but he (Shaw) was taller as he stood Shakespeare's
shoulders).

33. The doctrine of fair use guarantees a vibrant public domain in
expression, from which an individual can draw as well as replenish.

34. One crucial test as developed by the American courts,
is the transformative character of the use. If the work is transformative,
then it might not matter that the copying is whole or substantial.

"Where the theme is the same but is presented and treated differently so that
the subsequent work becomes a completely new work, no question of violation of
copyright arises."

"One of the surest and the safest test to determine whether or not there has
been a violation of copyright is to see if the reader, spectator or the viewer
after having read or seen both the works is clearly of the opinion and gets an
unmistakable impression that the subsequent work appears to be a copy of the
original."

ALSO:
http://www.altlawforum.org/PUBLICATIONS/document.2004-12-18.5142324852

"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples
then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea
and I have one idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us
will have two ideas" George B. Shaw

The current binding constipation of British law was not the intent of
the first copyright legislation"The Statute of Anne" 1709
"An act for the encouragement of learning.."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Mr. Richard Bridge cultivates the myth of copyright...
he sees that it is is carefully constructed and constantly
reinforced within this forum.


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