Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Guitar Bellying Dang

olddude 10 Oct 09 - 12:11 PM
mandotim 10 Oct 09 - 12:18 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Oct 09 - 12:27 PM
olddude 10 Oct 09 - 01:27 PM
mandotim 10 Oct 09 - 01:52 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Oct 09 - 01:56 PM
GUEST,erbert 10 Oct 09 - 02:05 PM
catspaw49 10 Oct 09 - 02:06 PM
dwditty 10 Oct 09 - 02:18 PM
olddude 10 Oct 09 - 02:30 PM
Richard Bridge 10 Oct 09 - 02:51 PM
Peace 10 Oct 09 - 02:55 PM
GUEST,Abdul the Bul Bul on laptop 10 Oct 09 - 03:08 PM
Richard Bridge 10 Oct 09 - 03:40 PM
mandotim 10 Oct 09 - 06:29 PM
Bobert 10 Oct 09 - 06:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Oct 09 - 06:49 PM
olddude 10 Oct 09 - 07:22 PM
Richard Bridge 11 Oct 09 - 04:32 AM
VirginiaTam 11 Oct 09 - 04:58 AM
mandotim 11 Oct 09 - 07:50 AM
Richard Bridge 11 Oct 09 - 09:32 AM
olddude 13 Oct 09 - 06:42 PM
olddude 13 Oct 09 - 06:47 PM
Abdul The Bul Bul 13 Oct 09 - 11:16 PM
Abdul The Bul Bul 13 Oct 09 - 11:21 PM
Murray MacLeod 14 Oct 09 - 02:02 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Oct 09 - 03:43 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: olddude
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:11 PM

I guess after 40 years I have a belly also. My old D-28 it is under warranty, what do they do to fix it. Noticed the string are up and it is getting harder to play ... I assume it probably isn't and easy fix huh

Dang


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: mandotim
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:18 PM

Hi! If it's under warranty, easy fix/hard fix isn't a problem, it will be fixed. Options for luthiers are;
Remove the bridge and steam it flat.
Remove the whole top, re-do the bracing under tension and replace the top.
Full re-top
Use a StewMac Bridge Doctor to put tension in the top and flattent it.
Tim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:27 PM

Last option deadens the response I believe.

JM


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: olddude
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 01:27 PM

What about a neck reset, is that an option for guitar bellying? How long does it usually take assuming he can get right at it. Neck seems nice a straight to me but I read on the web it is an option for bellying. Scott is a master and one of the people Martin sends there work to. He does many of the famous name people. Last time he repaired a crack in the top under the pick guard (common on a Martin) and did a refret job (I had to pay for that one) but Martin covered the crack .. Thank God for that lifetime warranty .. huh


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: mandotim
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 01:52 PM

Hi John; I've now installed four Bridge Doctors in a variety of instruments, including a Rob Armstrong mandocello and a really good old Martin D18. One was mine, the others were customer jobs. If anything the response improves, as the design of the Bridge Doctor acts in a similar way to a violin soundpost, the top flattens so the bracing works properly, and the proper break angle of the strings over the bridge is restored. This is confirmed by the satisfied owners. Have you heard a guitar with one installed? Breedlove install them as standard in all their high end acoustic guitars, as this enables them to use lighter tops, and as I'm sure you know, lightness usually equates to more resonance. McGrath of Harlow also has some experience, and reckons it saved his old guitar.
Tim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 01:56 PM

OK, I have been misinformed then. Glad it works well.

JM


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:05 PM

you can turn it round and put the strings on the other side
that is still nice and flat and got no big hole in it.
I always turn my pants round back to front to get extra weeks wear
before they get too uncomforatable and must need washing.
that works nicely.
Can get even more extended wear if I turn them inside out.
Maybe you can also do that with your big guitar box ?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:06 PM

I've only installed three, all on guitars, but I was going to say pretty much what Tim said!   They work great and I found nothing at all to complain about in the sound!

The first one I put in was in a friends older and very nice Epiphone about 12 years back and I had some misgivings about the idea. Since I only live 40 miles from Stew-Mac, I took the guitar and went down. After asking my questions and showing the problem, they told me what I would have to do slightly differently and I then asked, "Listen....Is this going to work?" The guy helping me named Jim (now has a shop in of his own in Grove City) just gave me a real shit eating grin and said, "Oh yeah....It'll work."   And he was right.

Good product as far as I'm concerned.


Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: dwditty
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:18 PM

The bridge doctor does work, and I think it actually enhances the sound...other disagree. I went right to the inventor (JLD Bridge Doctor) - really nice people to deal with. It cost me $50-$100 (it was a few years ago). Simple to install.

Of course if Martin will honor the warranty, I would have them do whatever needs to be done at the factory.

Best luck.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: olddude
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:30 PM

Erbert,
or it could just be used to smuck ya in the head with LOL

thanks for the info folks, gotta get er fixed ... Thanks for the info Spaw on the bridge plate thing. At least I will have my old Alvarez to play while it is in the hospital. That plate covering idea worked really really good and I be darn if I can tell any difference in sound on that one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:51 PM

I have several Bridge Doctors installed and personally I think they make the sound a little (just a teensy bit) more punchy and less flappy, and the little extra mass under the saddle seems to help the sustain too.

Brian Rodgers, who does the installs for me, likes them too.

But it will void your Martin warranty!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Peace
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:55 PM

Dan, excellent advice from Tim. BUT, call Martin and check out what they have to say.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: GUEST,Abdul the Bul Bul on laptop
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:08 PM

Richard, can you give me the contact address for Brian please? I need to get my Gazuki sorted over Christmas when I return for 2 weeks. Short 'window' so will need to book it in. Apologies for hijacking your thread olddude.

Al


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:40 PM

Not on a public forum, Abdul. Re-set your cookie and PM me and I will.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: mandotim
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 06:29 PM

Hi olddude, sorry, I forgot to answer your other question; a neck reset is indeed an option, but on Martins (they have a dovetail joint) it's a bugger of a job to get right. Most 'luthiers' put shims in rather than re-cutting the joint, but in my opinion this is unstable and affects tone. Also, it doesn't treat the underlying problem, it just relieves the symptoms by realigning the fretboard with the warped top. The top bellying is usually caused by either humidity/lack of humidity or (more commonly) one or more of the braces, usually around the bridge plate, not doing their job by either warping or coming adrift. If you don't fix these problems you end up having to reset the neck over and over again, ending up with a very odd-looking instrument. There was an example of this I saw recently, a 1920s Gibson H4 mandola for sale that had the neck at a very weird angle. Nice instrument, but virtually unplayable by the time I saw it. Just needed new tone bars, but the neck was beyond repair by by this time. (Opposite problem on mandolas of course, this was top sinkage rather than bellying!)
Tim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 06:37 PM

Also, not all lutherers are created equal so ask around of those that Martin says are authorized to do warrenty work... I won't name names but about 8 years ago I had my '66 D-18's neck reset and it took over 2 months to get it back and it wasn't right and it took almost 6 months to get it right... Pays to ask around.. Plenty of authorized Martin lutherers...

Good luck and...

... loose a few pounds, too (lol)...

B~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 06:49 PM

I'd have thought the warranty means that fixing it is not your problem - the Bridge Doctor is pretty good, and easy to do if you had to sort it out yourself, with an old guitar like my one, or one you'd bought without a warrenty.   

But a proper luthier's rebuild, or a replacement Martin, would be better.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: olddude
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 07:22 PM

No I don't touch it. Scott the Buffalo guy does all the work for a host of Nashville celebs and also the goo goo dolls and a list too long to name. He is a master. The Martin company told me he is the best there is and he fixed my crack under the pick guard and did a refret job that was amazing. He will sort it out and the warranty will take care of it. I am more interested in understanding what they do to fix such things. I really didn't want a neck job since it is as straight as the day I bought it but I read that on the net and wanted to ask. I just wanted to know what needs to be done so I can ask the right questions and get the right answers just like Bobart said. I just play the things don't understand what is inside and trying to learn something

Thanks so much and thanks mandotim for educating me
Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 04:32 AM

3 issues are getting muddled up here.

1. Bellying, ie the top has pulled up (usually behind the bridge, there may be sinkage in front of the bridge). A bridge Doctor will fix this, and IMHO change the sound less than re-strutting the top (as described above).

2. Neck angle. This is the angle of the neck joint. For some reason old Yamahas are particularly susceptible to the joint creeping.

3. Neck progression (curvature). Necks are not supposed to be straight, but to arch forward very slightly so that the strings leave the neck at the same angle wherever you fret it. This is controlled by the truss rod if there is one, the steel bar if you have a reinforced non-adjustable neck (Martin went through a period of this), and prayer and fasting if you have a non-reinforced neck.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 04:58 AM

I think Abdul can't reset cookie while he is in Dubai. He has mentioned this in other threads, I believe.   I have his email, if he is happy for me to send to you Richard.

Abdul - will you be attending Wassail at the Good Intent in Rochester, 19 or 20 December?


Back to thread .... thank you for the description of what bellying is.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: mandotim
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 07:50 AM

Good clarification as always Richard; thanks.
Tim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:32 AM

VT I ahve emailed you


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: olddude
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 06:42 PM

dang,
well the guitar master doctor check the old Martin out ... non issue with the belly, He said it was so slight that it was hardly even there. the issue is a neck reset.   Well Scott clients include
Goo Goo Dolls, The Black Crows, Ani Di Franco, 10,000 Maniacs, Taj Mahal, Billy Sheehan, Percy Jones, and Melissa Ethridge.

I guess Taj Mahal won't trust anyone else to work on his so the old geetar of mine is in good hands ... From what I just read on the net a neck reset is a complex bugger ... my luck ...I guess I wait a month

crap, see what I know ... nothing ...thought it was a belly problem


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: olddude
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 06:47 PM

by the way, Holy Cow is a neck reset on a Martin Expensive or what??
thank God for the lifetime warranty. I tell you I will never buy a used Martin, the repairs will kill ya ... buy new that is my suggestion unless you are a master like Richard Bridge or mandotim and can do your own work ... my gosh that can break the bank. My heart goes out to you folks over the pond that don't get that life warranty .. what is that all about anyway ... a Martin guitar is a Martin guitar regardless isn't it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 11:16 PM

Richard, VT I Managed to reset now I have a PC and received your emails. Thanks for that.

Al


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 11:21 PM

And thanks for the (mis) use of the thread olddude. Guitar in hospital will give you all that time you keep thinking of spending on the mandolin!

Al


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Oct 09 - 02:02 PM

why all the coyness about Brian Rodgers' email address ?

it's right up there on the net, first hit you get when you input "Brian Rodgers " into Google.

also, @olddude, there is no need to shed any tears for us folks on this side of the pond, the Martin warranty still holds good over here for the original owner, and we do have Martin authorised repairmen here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Guitar Bellying Dang
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 09 - 03:43 PM

I don't do my own repairs - much safer to have Brian do them, and he does not do neck sets. But I like to understand the way an instruemnt works.

I have a couple of neck sets that need doing, as it happens. I'm expecting them to cost up to a couple of hundred squid each - and one will involve a refret as well thanks to an IDIOT who tried to take a short cut rather than doing a neck set last time (he pulled the neck into back-bow with the truss-rod and then filed the middle frets down to give progresion!)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 23 July 1:33 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.