Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Joe_F
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 06:17 PM

IMO, the song is much better as Pete Seeger wrote it. It was a mistake for Hickerson to expand it into a cycle of posies, and a bigger mistake for Seeger to accept the result.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 06:05 PM

In Pete Seeger's own words:

[1998:] In October, 1955, I was on a plane bound for Ohio - half dozing. I found in my pocket three lines copied a year before when I was reading, And Quiet Flows the Don, the Soviet novel by Mikhail Sholokhov, who describes the Cossack soldiers singing as they galloped off to join the Tzar's army. 'Where are the flowers? The girls have plucked them. Where are the girls? They've taken husbands. Where are the men? They're all in the army.' Something clicked in my subconscious; I remembered the phrase I'd thought of a couple years earlier, 'long time passing', a singable three words. Then, I added the handwringer's personal complaint, 'When will they ever learn?'Twenty minutes later, it was completed. I recorded it for Folkways in 1956 with several other short songs. A year later, I stopped singing it, thinking it another not-too-successful attempt. But Joe Hickerson, leader of the Oberlin College Folksong Club, picked it up and added two verses. He gave the song rhythm. The Kingston Trio and Peter, Paul and Mary eventually picked it up, too. (Notes 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone - The Songs of Pete Seeger')

He also says - in the book of the same title, I think - that he thinks the German version superior to his own. It was written by Max Colpet (not Coplet!), a German Jewish author and songwriter (see Wikipedia).

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Art Thieme
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 09:52 PM

JOE HICKERSON is the one who did most of this song.

I can't believe nobody has given Joe the credit he deserves.

Art

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 09:08 PM

I occasionally watch the Classic Arts Showcase channel. They play clips (videos, old films) from various performances, such as a scene from an opera, a song or two from a recital, a selection from a ballet, perhaps an excerpt from a classic film, or a selection from someone's night club act.

One of the clips they show from time to time is Marlene Dietrich singing "Where Have All the Flowers Gone." She introduces it by crediting it to Pete Seeger.

Out of her own mouth.

Don Firth

P. S. She sings it like she needs a vitamin shot, but that's another matter. . . .

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: GUEST,Young Buchan
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 09:04 PM

My favourite story about this song is that Gary Shearston, before he went on to become a pop singer, was asked to sing it on Australian TV. Just as he was about to start he was passed a note to say they were overrunning so could he leave out a couple of verses!

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:39 PM

Thanks, Mark. Sorry to have cross-posted.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:38 PM

From the site you gave the address for, Q:

"In the 50s, American folk singer Pete Seeger (1919 - ) often sang at college concerts. In 1958, en route to one of these concerts, on the plane, he had his inspiration for "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?". Seeger pulled out his pocket-size song notebook and as he recalls, "Leafing through it, I came across three lines I'd written down, oh, at least a year or two before". Seeger had read a novel by Mikhail Sholokhov, And Quiet Flows the Don, where he noted the three lines came from a Ukrainian folk song."

Just when the world was seeming to be simple . . . .

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Mark Ross
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:37 PM

The song was written by Pete from a reference in Mikhail Sholokov's AND QUIET FLOWS THE DON. Therein is quoted an old Cossack folksong which later became the song we all know. Pete only wrote 3 verses, the others were added by Joe Hickerson. Max Coplet wrote the German translation.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:35 PM

He did write the first part of it and Coplet expanded it, if I read the article correctly.
I tried to print the German version, but it came up blank. The 'save' does work, however.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:25 PM

Thanks, Q. Was a shock to me because I'd thought it was written by Seeger. Sonuvagun.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:23 PM

Allmusic has over 300 citations for this song, nearly all of them listing Pete Seeger. The few other listings all seem to be arrangers. No 'Coplet' listed.
However, this website gives information on Max Coplet and Marlene Dietrich. It says Dietrich was the first performer in 1962. The Kingston Trio is also mentioned.
Later on, it says Seeger wrote it with three verses in 1960 and recorded it as part of a medley in 1960 on a "Rainbow Quest" album.

Max Coplet wrote the German version for Dietrich (six verses).

English, French and German lyrics given at this website:
http://worldmusic.suite101.com/article.cfm/where_have_all_the_flowers_gone

News to me!

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:05 PM

PS The city used to be called Königsberg.

Subject: Folklore: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:03 PM

I was reading a bang-bang shootem up entitled "traitor's kiss" by Gerald Seymour. At the beginning of each of twenty chapters he asks a question, the answer to which is Kaliningrad. This is the question for chapter 5.

"Q. What is the birthplace of Max Coplet, the Jewish composer who wrote 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone' for Marlene Deitrich?
A. Kaliningrad."

Does anyone have the history of this song?