A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Mark Clark
Date: 24 Jul 99 - 01:01 PM

Art,

Just to add my two cents to what everyone else is saying, please don't start denying us the benefit of your thoughts and opinions on politics and life (and the universe and everything). Many if not most of the songs in the DT data base are political in some way. I'd guess a great many of us got interested in folk music precisely because we found a poetic expression of our own socio-political beliefs. It was largely from that starting point many years back that I began to discover the simple beauty, and honest expression in all the music everyone here loves.

I've always regarded you as one of our foremost interpreters of the music and one of the most insightful. Don't be put off by cranks and trouble makers. I've heard folks say "It takes all kinds to make a world" but I have a suspicion that there are some kinds it just doesn't take. I saw a sign once that said something like "Non carborundum illegitimi" (Don't let the bastards wear you down), and I offer that advice to you and everyone here.

- Mark

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: LEJ
Date: 24 Jul 99 - 02:15 PM

Mick and Mark, you guys are right on the money with your comments. Art, anybody who doesn't see the essential common sense and good humor in your posts is missing the boat, whether you are talking about Folk music OR politics.

Can we reach a point where we are able to integrate camaraderie and music? Can we find threads where the choice is not simply between "Seeks Clarification of Second Verse of Barbara Allen" and "BS/ What are Mudcatters Middle Names"? I think we are reaching the point. Take a look at the "Mudcat Campfire". A natural setting was created that was conducive to conversation, humor, story telling, AND traditional music. Fans of all of these Mudcat genres would benefit by taking a seat by the fire.

There will always be a need for providing lyrics, song titles, etc. But for those who would stick around this forum and be here to answer, I believe other needs must be met.

LEJ

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Night Owl
Date: 24 Jul 99 - 02:36 PM

Thank you LEJ...for the above post AND the campfire!!

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Chet W.
Date: 24 Jul 99 - 02:38 PM

The last few posts here reflect exactly what I've been pondering during my morning chores. It seems like a lot of my friends don't like to think about or know about or get excited about anything new that's different or important, politically or otherwise. I guess it's a matter of comfort and, well, laziness, but how many times have I tried to discuss a big idea or play some new interesting (to me anyway) music to friends that seem to at least hold the same basic values as I do, and they're not interested. They've retired from novelty. Their opinions are not subject to change, so they don't enjoy a good argument. I wonder if we're all just jaded from modern culture (why won't they let JFK jr. die in peace, with his family around him?). I really don't know what it is. But I do notice that the times when I get lazy about politics or social issues or ethics or whatever, my creativity level goes down with it.

Would appreciate any thoughts, Chet

Subject: This thread is closed. Thanks.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jul 99 - 02:47 PM

I dunno. I guess I'd say that Art is the quintessential Mudcatter, the one we all should emulate.

That being said, I would also like to say that many of us are licking our wounds from a fairly serious flame war - more serious because we thought that the 'Cat was immune from such unpleasantry. Well, I guess we weren't. I know we all have a lot more to say on this subject, but maybe it's better if we just don't say it. Please don't post any more messages to this or any of the other threads that were part of this whole mess. Try to discuss things privately if you must. If there is a compelling need to analyze all this in public, please wait a few days until the air clears, and then start a new thread. I think it's better to just let the matter die.
Now, Art, will you go out into the other threads and tell us some jokes and stories? We've had a nice, toasty campfire going for 24 yours already.

This thread is closed. Any messages posted to it after this will be deleted.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:43 AM

bye bye.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 07:53 AM

The reasons for refreshing this thread may be less than positive, however, one can only hope that something more positive results from it. This thread shows that the only course open to you, when you get to the point that you have tried your best to ensure that our forum is as good as it can be and it still not to your personal taste, is to remove yourself from it.

Rather than accept this reality, sadly, many still seem to think and encourage the idea that our forum can be changed to reflect their personal tastes by encouraging the removal of the contributons of others, that are not to their personal tastes. There were many nice things said in this thread, and it was nice to read them again, including the following - Goodbye, Roger. I hope you come back. You're a good guy.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Can we (meaning you) rename a thread?
From: The Shambles
Date: 14-Aug-04 - 02:30 AM

Wesley S came up with the following [posted in the latest 'hug and prayer complaint thread]- it says more in a few lines than I can ever manage, in my long-winded way.

Grant our members and guests the serenity to accept the things they cannot change - the courage to change the things they can - and the wisdom to realise that this is a forum open to the public and that they have no control over the posts and ideas of others

As it was not a suggestion of mine, is there any chance of you putting this wonderful common sense into the FAQ and in the headings of the various forums? [crediting Wesley S of course]

The starting point is setting the example that accepts that none of us here really have any control over the posts and ideas of others - only ourselves. That is something I would have thought that the Joe Offer I first came across and greatly respected in the forum, accepted and set the best example in.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Peace
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:33 PM

The thread refresh may not have had to do directly with you, Shambles. There have been many people looking back to "the good old days" when everything was better. It could have been a reference to that. We hear repeatedly that there were no problems before. So, maybe it was about that. That's what I thought when I first saw the dates of all but the last three posts.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:37 PM

I doubt it... it was likely just goof-off surfing mudcat loaded again...

Maybe it's time to have this thread moved to the BS section... Where if the 'rules' had been in place when it was started, it woulda ended up in the first place...

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Melani
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:48 PM

Just to add a music reference--one of my favorite statements about "things were better in the good old days" is a song called "When This Old Hat Was New." It's the usual "this is awful, and that is awful and the other thing is awful..." The chorus goes, "It was not so when Bess did reign, and this old hat was new." It dates from the time of James I.

So what else is new?

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:53 PM

I don't know who refreshed this, but I appreciate it. It's not pleasant reading at times, and the most unpleasant things are between the lines. I've only been in here a couple of years now, and I've seen Mudcat have its ups and downs. Until recently, I didn't see it centered so much around one person. Not that I think the problem is one person. In my mind, anyone who accepts the actions of a person who is intentionally trying to offend, and hurt someone else is part of the problem. If nothing else, I hope that recent discussions have caused us all to re-examine how we conduct ourselves in here. I say "us all" because there have been two occasions when I got fed up with someone in here (in both cases, people I consider friends) and resorted to the easiest form of humor... sarcasm. I wasn't obscene, but I went for the easy cheap shot and felt badly about it afterward. In both instances, I PMd the person and appoligized (how in the world do you spell apologized?) Hopefully those incidents are left behind.

There are some in here who seem to think civility is a four letter word. Thank God (or whoever you prefer thanking) there are only a small handful.

Onward

Jerry

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 03:58 PM

John from Hull posted a very nasty personal attack thread against Shambles this a.m. which was quickly deleted. Others like McGrath have been haranguing him too. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this thread refresh is another instance of a member wreaking vengeance.

Sigh.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,m
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 04:20 PM

I have had the misfortune to take things in the worst way possible. It's something I'm learning to deal with I hope. And I seem to be getting better at it as the months go on. However, that said, it's time for a little peace to break out. Really.

Unlike Jerry, I have often lashed out when walking away would have been the right thing to do. That is wrong. Ya never know when people have had the worst day of their life, or if they carry aburden so heavy it weighs on thier very soul.

Realizing what I did doesn't excuse my own childish behaviour, but maybe saying it will allow me to move on from a limbo located between hell and purgatory. One can but hope.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Amos
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 04:29 PM

One can indeed...and persevere. Thanks.

A

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow (temoprarily uncookied)
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 05:01 PM

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 05:13 PM

??

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 05:18 PM

Something went wrong there. Perhaps I pushed the delete button or something instead of the submit. (Those question marks were me too.)

Haranguing must means something else wherever it is you live, Sigh. My "harangue" consisted of a friendly suggestion to The Shambles that he should perhaps apply that quote to homself - Grant our members and guests the serenity to accept the things they cannot change...

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 05:25 PM

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Some of us have long since noticed you are often first in line when it comes to Shambles, McGrath.

And a warm goodbye to you.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow.
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 05:29 PM

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,m
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 05:32 PM

Not quite the peace I had envisioned . . .

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 05:35 PM

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" h eremarked, heaving a brick.

(Incidentally, if anyone else is reading this, that last remark by whoever-it-is was not actually true. More often than not when I've been posting in a thread along with The Shambles, we've been more or less in agreement. Not surprisingly, since we've exchanged tapes and sung together and have got on very well when we've met. We share some bees in our bonnet, just not this one.)

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:05 PM

The thread was revived in an attempt to embarass The Shambles, and by a person who is not a memeber of his fan club. I think on the whole that his cunning plot has backfired.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,m
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:08 PM

This is getting to be like the peace I envisioned.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:34 PM

"This thread is closed. Any messages posted to it after this will be deleted."

That was on 24 Jul 99 - so I assume all the "revival posts" will shortly vanish anyway.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,m
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:52 PM

Then how will we know we were ever here? In decades, a civilization in space will receive these words that have been hither-to-now posted and have but half a story. Deleting this could lead to intergalactic strife.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 08:30 PM

"All I am saying, is give peace a chance."

And ease up on the peddle, brother John9.

Jerry

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: GUEST,m
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 08:55 PM

The act of forgiving is something we owe ourselves. Nursing a hatred or dislike leads nowhere. Why do we forgive greater sins and get hung up on littler ones?

Seems we got that backwards. IMO.

Subject: RE: A warm goodbye, from The Shambles.
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:34 PM

Roger you have been one of the stronger voices here and I have always been glad to hear your words. I have been away a ton the last year and a half but still feel very close to many here . I hope to meet you one of these old days . THanks for all your input . Yours Guy

---

Back in the old days, we didn't have a technical means of closing threads, but this thread was supposed to be closed. You may continue this discussion in another thread, but this particular thread is closed - although I'm not going to bother to delete the recent messages.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-