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Review: MacColl Celebration Salford

Les in Chorlton 28 Oct 09 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Noreen 28 Oct 09 - 12:50 PM
GUEST,Noreen 28 Oct 09 - 12:50 PM
Les in Chorlton 28 Oct 09 - 02:47 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 Oct 09 - 03:04 PM
Les in Chorlton 28 Oct 09 - 03:18 PM
Phil Edwards 28 Oct 09 - 04:16 PM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 28 Oct 09 - 07:31 PM
Les in Chorlton 29 Oct 09 - 06:52 AM
GUEST,Sophie FFS 29 Oct 09 - 07:19 AM
Vin2 29 Oct 09 - 07:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Oct 09 - 09:24 AM
GUEST, Sminky 29 Oct 09 - 09:55 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 29 Oct 09 - 11:44 AM
Vin2 29 Oct 09 - 12:24 PM
Matthew Edwards 29 Oct 09 - 01:34 PM
Paco O'Barmy 29 Oct 09 - 03:30 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM
Paco O'Barmy 29 Oct 09 - 04:35 PM
Matthew Edwards 29 Oct 09 - 05:09 PM
Paco O'Barmy 29 Oct 09 - 05:33 PM
Paco O'Barmy 29 Oct 09 - 06:16 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Oct 09 - 08:46 PM
Fergie 29 Oct 09 - 09:54 PM
Les in Chorlton 30 Oct 09 - 04:33 AM
Vin2 30 Oct 09 - 06:19 AM
GUEST,Callingbird 30 Oct 09 - 08:46 AM
Paco O'Barmy 30 Oct 09 - 08:53 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Oct 09 - 09:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Oct 09 - 09:27 AM
GUEST,Michelin Man 30 Oct 09 - 09:45 AM
Gedi 30 Oct 09 - 10:03 AM
Paco O'Barmy 30 Oct 09 - 10:53 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Oct 09 - 11:54 AM
Les in Chorlton 30 Oct 09 - 12:25 PM
Matthew Edwards 30 Oct 09 - 12:44 PM
Les in Chorlton 30 Oct 09 - 12:49 PM
Paco O'Barmy 30 Oct 09 - 01:39 PM
GUEST,Paco Rabanne 30 Oct 09 - 01:56 PM
Jim Carroll 30 Oct 09 - 01:58 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 30 Oct 09 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,Winger 30 Oct 09 - 02:29 PM
GUEST 30 Oct 09 - 03:20 PM
Matthew Edwards 30 Oct 09 - 03:44 PM
Fred McCormick 30 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM
Jim Carroll 30 Oct 09 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,Paco O'Hitler 30 Oct 09 - 05:46 PM
Dave the Gnome 30 Oct 09 - 06:00 PM
Jim Carroll 31 Oct 09 - 04:04 AM
GUEST,Mikaël 31 Oct 09 - 09:18 AM
Paco O'Barmy 31 Oct 09 - 10:21 AM
GUEST,callingbird 31 Oct 09 - 10:35 AM
nutty 31 Oct 09 - 11:26 AM
John Routledge 31 Oct 09 - 12:36 PM
dick greenhaus 31 Oct 09 - 01:06 PM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 31 Oct 09 - 01:20 PM
dick greenhaus 31 Oct 09 - 02:53 PM
Phil Edwards 31 Oct 09 - 07:01 PM
Tattie Bogle 31 Oct 09 - 08:54 PM
GUEST,Peter Cox 01 Nov 09 - 10:01 AM
Les in Chorlton 01 Nov 09 - 10:27 AM
Paco O'Barmy 02 Nov 09 - 10:22 AM
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Subject: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 12:09 PM

Just pondering on an amazing concert at Peel Hall Salford. 20 years since the death of the mighty Ewan.

Peggy Seeger, Bob Blair, John Faulkner, Brian Person, Jez Lowe, Bob Fox and erm ...... I've forgotten.

The Living Tradition?

L in C


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 12:50 PM

I would have liked to know about this in advance!

memorial_concert_for_revered_ewan_maccoll_


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 12:50 PM

Tell us more, Les- how was it?


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 02:47 PM

I thought it was a good mixture of homage to Ewan, singing some of his songs and old songs that Peggy and others sang and new songs from Jez Lowe and John Faulkner, making the point (I think) that we have a living tradition of traditional songs and songs written more recently about the lives of ordinary and in some cases extraordinary people and events.

I have a feeling of something missing and I wonder if anybody else who went felt the missing bit or just simply that it was a great night.

L in C


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 03:04 PM

It was advertised here on the mudcat, albeit briefly. What I find more amazing is that the only remaining folk club in Salford ran it's annual festival over the weekend and did not know anything about it either! Well, I knew about it but we saw no advertising or even as much as a mention, let alone a visit, from the organisers. I guess we are just to lowbrow;-)

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 03:18 PM

Good point Dave, sounds like the people involved have little to do with folk clubs around Greater Manchester and in Salford in particular.

L in C


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 04:16 PM

I have a feeling of something missing

I'm sure there were lots of things missing - I'm willing to bet the event was pretty much devoid of alpenhorns, male voice choirs and trained parrots, to say nothing of traction engines, rain gauges and tricycles. I could spend the next half hour listing some of the things that weren't there last night, and I wasn't even there myself (#94: P. Radish, Esq).

Can you be more specific?

To be honest, one of the reasons I didn't go last night was because, in my experience, gigs at that venue have all the atmosphere of a church service in a furniture showroom. I thought the setting would show up any of the newer songwriters who didn't live up to Ewan's standards, & wouldn't necessarily do Ewan's own material any favours. Something like that, or something completely different?


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 07:31 PM

I travelled from Crewe to the concert. I hadn't seen much advertising, but in spite of that and the above comments, there was a large audience. I enjoyed it.
Derek


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 06:52 AM

"in my experience, gigs at that venue have all the atmosphere of a church service in a furniture showroom."

Fairenoughski, it was more than a bit dead.

I think Jez Lowe is a fantastic songwriter, great instrumentalist, singer, wit and all round good guy. I wouldn't want to line people up and say who is better than whom because I think you listen and you like it or whatever, but few people dead or alive write tunes and stories as good as Jez.

My feeling was related to what Dave said above. Lots of people didn't know about it - although it was still a sell out. I felt a bit left out.

The message that never left the stage was:
"people are still singing old songs, Ewan's songs, our own songs and playing tunes only a few miles from this stage. Go to your local folk club and enjoy!"

I guess I have no right to ask to be included but many others who have been singing, playing and organising folk events for years do have that right, but the remained unaknowledged by the Celebration.

Cheers

L in C


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Sophie FFS
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 07:19 AM

I really enjoyed it. Peggy Seeger was the highlight for me - what a marvellously witty woman she is!


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Vin2
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 07:34 AM

Excellent night paying tribute to a great contributor to 'the cause'.

Peggy's voice is still amazing after all the years - wonderfully moving rendition of 'First Time Ever I Saw Your Face'

knonw what you mean about the venue; tho a lovely room, it's not quite the right setting for a folk gig - maybe if they'd have dulled the lighting a bit if possible. However still a great night, sure Ewan would have appreciated. Look forward to reading his book 'Journeyman' I purchased on the night now.

P.S even got chatting to one of 'Shep's Banjo Boys', remember them?


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 09:24 AM

Lots of people didn't know about it - although it was still a sell out.

Obviously lots of people did know about it as well but if you look at the advertising the target audience was obviously not the 'standard folkie' (Whatever one of the is - Don't go there!) I cannot comment on who the audience actualy were as I was not there but, just maybe, Les's feeling of 'something missing' was the local folk?

DeG


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 09:55 AM

Here's another one that almost slipped past under my radar:


TURNING SILENCE INTO SONG. Celebrating 50 years of Rosselsongs. Leon Rosselson with Frankie Armstrong, Sandra Kerr, Nancy Kerr, James Fagan & Janet Russell.

Sun Nov 8th.

Waterside Arts Centre, 1 Waterside Plaza, Sale M33 7ZF.


Only half a dozen tickets left last time I looked.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 11:44 AM

the audience? Seemed to me to be a lot of MacColl fans, some travelling from Birmingham. Plus some long established folkies and - judging by the response to the more political songs etc, there was a fair old contingent from the (old) left.
Derek


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Vin2
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 12:24 PM

Yes Derek, Bob Fox got a great reception after singing the song regarding the Miner's strike.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 01:34 PM

I'd have said that the real missing element was the "auld bugger" himself, as Peggy herself affectionately called Ewan; his songs were just as powerful and moving on Tuesday as they were when he first wrote them, and I think he'd have a few words to say about bankers and the recession. What was good to witness was that songwriters like Jez Lowe and David Ferrard are still finding inspiration from Ewan MacColl.

Peggy is a delightfully graceful septuagenerian in whom you can still see the teenage slip of a girl who so entranced MacColl; Peter Cox, who MC'd the concert, read out Peggy's description of that first encounter with Ewan when he gazed on her after she had sung and "sat smoking, smoking. He had black hair and a red beard and his ears stuck out." Peggy gave a lovely throaty chuckle and dived straight into " The First Time I Saw Your Face" and told about how she had been summoned to the phone one night, dressed only in her bikini, to listen to Ewan sing that very song to her over the wires.

For me the real revelation of the night was Brian Pearson; I must have heard him before, but certainly not recently. He sang a wonderfully contemplative version of the "Foggy Dew" based on the singing of Harry Cox [who by the way is reputedly the great-grandfather of John Terry, Chelsea and England football player]. Then Brian sang the thoroughly sinister and bloodthirsty "Punch and Judy" song by John Pole - 'That's the way to do it!

Sadly only half of the Bagpuss team was present as Sandra Kerr was ill, but it was good to hear John Faulkner sing his song about the street children of Sao Paulo.

I don't think there could have been a dry eye in the hall when Bob Blair joined Peggy in "The Joy of Living"; I thought the night was a really good celebration of Ewan, and served as a reminder as to how much he is still missed twenty years after his much too early death.

Matthew Edwards


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 03:30 PM

Hmmm.... 'something missing' Would that be his war time record perchance? When he ran away from active service and hid in Scotland? Why was he never prosecuted for desertion when lesser mortals were?


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM

"Would that be his war time record perchance?"
Oh dear 20 years dead and still taking a kicking - this time from somebody from the other side of WW2 according to his/her name.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 04:35 PM

Jim,
   All respect to you,but my family and many otthers took a real kicking im WW2. If you want I can post my father's and grandfathers records. This isn't a subject that you can shrug away if Jimmy Miller is ever to be accepted in English folklore.
   He ran away and you know it! My family didn't, so why should us younger generation bother to remember him?


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 05:09 PM

We've had "discussions" before now about MacColl's wartime record which have shed more heat than light - very few contributors actually wanted to understand why MacColl acted the way he did. I don't see why any poster calling themseves "Paco O'Hitler" would want to boast of their own family record.

Ben Harker's biography of MacColl Class Act adds as much as we will probably ever know on the topic; MacColl was indeed arrested in 1946 and prosecuted for desertion in 1947. His army records after that are not clear, but after some time in hospital he was finally discharged and deemed 'permanently unfit for any form of military service'. MacColl kept that period of his life a closed book according to Peggy in her introduction to the new edition of "Journeyman".

He wasn't a saint; but his songs are still well worth remembering 20 years on.

Matthew Edwards


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 05:33 PM

Forget Paco O'Hitler. contact me at elted75@yahoo.co.uk I have nothing to hide. Great songs aside, tell me why I should revere a coward?


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 06:16 PM

matthew,
       thanks for that quote. In short then, he was a coward, and ran away, no knighthood there methinks! Which still leaves the question of whether he will be included in the English canon or not?


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 08:46 PM

"tell me why I should revere a coward?"
I will, if you tell me why I should take anybody who calls himself Paco O'Hitler anything other than a sicko!
I suggest you read the relevant threads - god knows there are enough of them - or even try the book Mathew Edwards suggested before you start handing out your white feathers.
MacColl was many things, but he certainly wasn't a coward, any more than the many millions of others who shared his opinions about the ambiguity of W.W.2.
My father was fighting fascism three years before the war broke out - in Spain. For his pains (he was wounded and was taken prisoner of war) he was rewarded with a police record as a 'premature anti-fascist' and blacklisted from his work (as well as being excommunicated from his religion by the 'Christian' church) - that's how 'anti-fascist' the British establishment and our spiritual leaders were at the time.
I suggest if you want to be taken seriously, you adopt a more acceptible name than 'Paco O'Hitler' which, personally I find extremely offensive - funny - I laughed all the way to the gas chamber!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Fergie
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 09:54 PM

Hi to all my friends

It's sad to see a good thread being hijacked by a troll. The best way to deal with a troll is to completely ignore it, do not interact with it in any way, a throll thrive on reactions to it's spew. Ignore it, behave as if it doesn't exist and it will soon go away.

Fergus


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:33 AM

Jim is right on many counts. Not least:

1. We have been around the AWOL in the war thing in great depth elsewhere on here
2. MacColl sang, collected and wrote songs and encouraged many other people to do the same to enormous effect. That cannot be denied and that was what was celebrated.

I am much more interested in the fact that folk clubs all over the country continue the Folk Revival that Ewan & Peggy dedicated their lives to promoting but no mention came from the stage last Tuesday.

I don't see this as a massive conspiracy. Perhaps a sad ommission?

L in C
And I trust people will heed Fergie's advice - because of point 1 above


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Vin2
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:19 AM

I very much doubt you could be a coward and an activist to the extent that Ewan was in the twenties and thirties and thereafter; McColl joined the Communist Party around 1929 aged 14 and remainded committed to the Socialist cause for the rest of his life.

He obviously had his reasons for opting out of 'joining in' the second world war which came about after the rise of Hitler's fascists during the great depression caused by the failings of the Capitalist systme that Ewan had 'fought' against all his life. To say he was a coward is plain stupid, life aint that simple.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Callingbird
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 08:46 AM

Paco

Did you walk in Ewan's shoes at the time? Were you present in his head, heart and very soul?

Did someone give you devine right to judge another person?

Have you special powers perhaps none of us know about?

No?

Then may I suggest you shove off and have your tantrum elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 08:53 AM

None of you can answer the question can you? Would Churchill have become England's focal point in WW2 if it was known that he ran away in WW1? I know I am not alone in thinking the way I do, I'm just the only one one has the balls to ask!


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:20 AM

I received a somewhat inarticulate PM from our friend Mr Hitler - I hope he won't mind if I post my reply, as I think it sums up my feeling on the subject of both MacColl and the war.
Jim Carroll

Dear Hitler,
I knew and worked with MacColl for over 20 years, was a recipient of his and Peggy's generosity throughout that time and constantly admired the fact that neither of them ever sold out on their principles (as they could have done many times) and persistently gave their time and energy to supporting causes that I (though probably not you), find worthy while the rest of the folkie superstars were getting on with their careers.
If you have any actual proof that MacColl was any more a coward than the hundred thousand others who refused to fight during the 2 world wars, please produce it - there is none available so far. Have you read 'Class Act', or any of the relaevant threads? - I doubt it.
I can't help noticing that you've headed this communication 'Jimmy Miller' - I wonder if you would have headed one about Bob Dylan 'Robert Zimmermann' - I doubt that too.
As I have already said - twenty years dead and still being kicked by people who call themselves Hitler - he must have done something right.
Heil
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:27 AM

What question is that Paco?

Would Churchill have become England's focal point in WW2 if it was known that he ran away in WW1?

By any chance? I will answer it. No he would not. Now would you answer me one? What the F*** has that got to do with Ewan MacColl who neither became a WW2 leader or ran away? Seeing as the authorities knew where he was and he was subsequently deemed unfit for active service hwat is the problem? As to the only one having balls. I would agree with you there. Pity they are coming out of the wrong place.

DeG


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Michelin Man
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:45 AM

I am much more interested in the songs he wrote than the man himself, or what happened all those many years ago.

What a truly wonderful legacy to leave for those who enjoy Folk music.

I only hope that the modest amount of songs I have written are enjoyed as much by others when I am no longer here myself to sing them.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Gedi
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:03 AM

Well said to both Jim C and Dave eG.

As for the music on the night, It was imho very good but personally I would have liked to have heard a few more of McColls work. There seemed to be a number of songs which to me just didn't fit in with the evening. The opening song, clearly an American 'back porch' kind of song being one example, the Punch and Judy song being another.

I thought it was a shame the audience didn't seem to want to join in more when clearly being encouraged to do so. This I think partly contributed to the 'flat' atmosphere.

And of course I have to agree with Les about the glaring lack of a mention of the current (very active) folk scene in and around Salford. I had the good fortune to come across the excellent local singer/songwriter Albert Thompson at the White Lion, Swinton, at the weekend, and I thought it would have been fitting if one or two of his songs (perhaps even performed by the man himself!) could have been done as a tribute to EM.

Nevertheless, it was a good night and I'm pleased to have been there.

Ged


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:53 AM

OK OK, I get the picture! Anyone who dares question Jimmy Millers' war record ( or lack of of it! ) is an evil Thatcherite Troll. You lads have to think on though that what I have posted is what a lot of people think.
Did MI5 get hold of him? Is this why he wasn't prosecuted?


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:54 AM

So he either was not prosecuted because he was unfit for active duty or he was not prosecuted because he was MI5's mole infiltrating heaven only knows what left wind organisations? Doesn't sound like the act of a coward to me! BTW - I do not realy like a lot of his stuff. Too 'trad' for my non-subversive tastes:-) I have no axe to grind about protecting him or otherwise. I do go on about unsubstantiated rumours and sensationalist media style accusations - Which is the only reason I got involved here.

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:25 PM

Dear Mr Hitler,

you are entitled to say, write and think what ever you like. I have a number of problems with your contribution:

1. This ground has been explored at great length on this website. Please check it out. You are saying nothing that has not been posted and discussed many times.
2. I started this post because I thought something was missing from what was an excellent evening of music.

I would like to explore the missing link to local folk clubs in a bit more detail and I would like the 300 + people who came last Tuesday to know about and go to local clubs.

If you ahve something to offer on this issue please do so.

L in C


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:44 PM

For a few years the late Terry Whelan ran a series of Ewan MacColl Memorial Weekends around parts of Manchester and Salford (it was a sort of movable feast which even once took place in the Secret White Lion in Swinton). Although they were widely advertised on the folk club scene and on Mudcat I don't recall seeing such large crowds at any of the events as turned up last Tuesday at Peel Hall. However the quality of the singing at some of those singarounds was of an unbelievably high standard - I still find the hairs creeping at the back of my neck when I recall Terry Yarnell's version of Lamkin which he sang in the back room of the Working Class Movement Library. Another year Jim Carroll and Pat MacKenzie gave a superb illustrated talk on Walter Pardon which gave me a real insight into how deeply one traditional singer thought about his material.

Maybe it would be a good time to resurrect the event - perhaps with a low-key start this coming January to commemorate the 95th anniversary of MacColl's birth. He was born 25 January 1915, on Burn's night, which suggests a possible theme for the night...Perhaps somewhere not too far from the Beech in Chorlton might be willing to host it???

Matthew Edwards


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:49 PM

Well now, I feel sure the Beech would be an excellent , though rather small venue but if people want to gather and sing songs mostly but not exclusively traditional ......................


First & third Wednesdays

L in C


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:39 PM

No answers there then!


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Paco Rabanne
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:56 PM

.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:58 PM

"No answers there then!"
Answer to what - you haven't asked anything?
Jim Carroll
PS Thanks for that Matthew - would be glad to help in any way we could in the future.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:15 PM

"No answers there then!"

What sort of answers were you hoping for P O'H?

And when you've received these hoped for answers what are you going to do with them?

Going back to L in C's original question, I thought that the Salford concert was a bit flat because it concentrated on MacColl the songwriter and not the MacColl the interpreter of tradional song and balladry. I don't deny that he was a songwriter of genius but he had an understanding of trad song which few of today's performers have - and that understanding fed into his written material. Although the concert featured a few trad. songs, I thought that they were a bit weak (apart from Peggy Seeger's stunning performance of 'Henry Lee' towards the end). There were far too many 'ideologically-pure,right-on, message-heavy, songs-what-I-have-wrote to earn me brownie points from the ideologically-pure songs' for my liking.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Winger
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:29 PM

"Answer to what - you haven't asked anything?"

'Fraid he did, Jim.

"Why was he never prosecuted for desertion when lesser mortals were?"


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:20 PM

He was in 1947!


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:44 PM

I assume Shimrod's complaint about message-heavy songs was directed at Jez Lowe and David Ferrard, and perhaps at John Faulkner too, all of whom sang some political songs of their own composition. I thought actually their songs all demonstrated some real insight and sensitivity; I hadn't heard of David Ferrard before but I was impressed by his song 'Visions of our Youth'; Jez Lowe's song from the new Radio Ballads about the Glasgow shipyards 'Taking On Men' was a really powerful song, and I've already commented on John Faulkner's moving song about the street children of Sao Paulo:-
There's a picture of Jesus and Mary hanging on the wall,
But no-one hears Maria cry, no-one hears her at all.


The only really "right-on" song was Bob Fox singing Jock Purdon's song 'The Blackleg Mining Men' - Jock didn't write that to gain some brownie points.

There was absolutely nothing "a bit weak" either about Bob Blair singing 'Collier Laddie' - it is one of the best love songs in the tradition, and Bob puts meaning into every single line of it.

I can quite understand if some people didn't enjoy the concert; that is their business, but some of the criticism has been most unfairly directed.

Matthew Edwards


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM

Paco O'Hitler. Another raving delusionist. I've just been looking back over some of his other postings. They go all the way back to 4th September 2009, and there is enough material there for an entire conference...........


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 05:05 PM

"Why was he never prosecuted for desertion when lesser mortals were?"
Read the book or the other threads - or do you expect somebody else do your homework for you?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Paco O'Hitler
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 05:46 PM

I have Jim. Have a look at newhumanist.org When you have time.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:00 PM

You mean this one?

With such fascinating links as 'Free instant ordination', 'One tip for a flat belly' and 'Order Chinese in Mortimer'? There was a pop-up blocked so maybe I missed the definitive article of Ewan. I guess it was all to do with the Salford Concert was it?

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 04:04 AM

"I have Jim."
And????????

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Mikaël
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 09:18 AM

It was a great evening, I don't regret to travel from France for the concert.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 10:21 AM

Yo Ladies,
          I have had quite a battering though PM's as you can imagine, which I have replied to. My point is a serious one, although I have shot myself in the foot because of my own flippance, but, here goes - Ewan could and should be a benchmark/source for all things to do with a different way of thinking in England. My grandfather knew him through the Salford Workers library.
          He has left a massive canon of music/plays/political thought etc. But my grandfather ended up in a tank in France, Ewan didn't! So his whole record ( in my mind )is compromised because he had feet of clay! Unless someone, somewhere can clear up the war years!!
                           Steve Rollinson


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,callingbird
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 10:35 AM

I couldn't make the concert but thanks to Matthew, Gedi and Les for a least a little insight into what sounds like a very interesting and enjoyable evening.

Hope to be at the 95th Anniversary day/concert/event?


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: nutty
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:26 AM

" Great songs aside, tell me why I should revere a coward? "

No one is telling you anything Steve

You have as much right to think and act in whatever way you wish - just as Ewan had.

And like him - don't expect everyone to agree with you.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: John Routledge
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 12:36 PM

"Class Act" clears up the war years almost completely for me.

Ewan appears to have been a very complex and a very troubled man who had a remarkable impact on the people with whom he came into contact.

I am in awe of "his songs plays and political thought" but am certainly not in awe of the man himself. If my politics were closer to his perhaps I would be in awe of MacColl the man.

Off for a re-read of Class Act as there was too much information for me to absorb in one reading


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 01:06 PM

You don't have to admire a person in order to appreciate his work. Simple as that. MacColl, Burl Ives.....giants in the folk music world. In their other world.....maybe not so much.

Ewan MacColl, it should be remembered, practically singlehandedly started the Scottish folk revival, with his collection "Scotland Sings".
He introduced traditional ballads to at least two generations of American folkies. Hi (along with Peggy Seeger) did some fine collecting of songs. And he was a pretty damned good song writer.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 01:20 PM

Actually, Dick, I think Hamish Henderson had quite a bit to do with starting the Scottish folk revival!
Derek


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 02:53 PM

Hamish was undoubtedly a magnificent collector (and composer). I suspect, though, that Scotland Sings was the direct inspiration for the Hall MacGregor collection, which seemed to kick off the active revival. I may be wrong, and I don't mean to denigrate Hamish's role; it's just that MacColl's influence on the revival of traditional music seem to get downplayed.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 07:01 PM

his whole record ( in my mind )is compromised because he had feet of clay

Your judgment call is yours to make, and mine is mine. When I first encountered the Revival I was deeply bored by the hectoring earnestness and sentimentality which I thought were characteristic of it, particularly in its more radical elements. It took me a while to get through to traditional songs, and to realise that a lot of them are damn good songs. At this point I realised that I owed MacColl a debt of gratitude for his work in making those songs heard, whatever his politics were. Some time after that, I had a proper listen to some of his own songs - not just the Manchester Rambler and Dirty Old Town - and realised that they were damn good songs as well. So I salute him for that as well.

To answer your question, such as it was: firstly, MacColl plainly wasn't a Fascist - he had a lifelong commitment to the cause of working people. In retrospect we don't agree with every decision he made, but the overall shape of his life and work suggests that we've got no right to smear him in the way you're suggesting. Secondly, even if we discovered tomorrow that MacColl actually *was* a Fascist who hoped the Nazis would win, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the work he did as a collector, a populariser and a writer.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:54 PM

There was a similar Ewan McColl memorial concert in Glasgow on the afternoon of Saturday 24th October: some of the same performers, Peggy, Frankie Armstrong, John Faulkner, Brian Pearson, and some different, including Scottish singers Jimmie McGregor, Gordeanna McCulloch, Anne Neilson and Finlay Allison. Bob Blair also did "Collier Laddie" and "The Joy of Living", and Peggy was magnificent. Brian Pearson led the final song "The Manchester Rambler" which had everyone joining in, swaying, and a standing ovation at the end. David Ferrard also contributed, his songs being taken as an example of the current issues which might possibly have interested Ewan. The venue, a lecture theatre in "The Centre for Political Song" in Glasgow Caledonian University, was packed out.
The previous night we had also had the "50 years of Rosselsongs" concert in Edinburgh, so what a weekend!


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: GUEST,Peter Cox
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 10:01 AM

Can I just clear up some of the questions that emerge from this thread, as the one who set the concert(s) up? The idea came when I realised that the launch of a re-edited version of his autobiography (by the unsung hero Ted Power)coincided with the 20th anniversary of Ewan's death on Oct 22, and that Peggy Seeger would be in the country at the time. Peggy was in favour, provided they could be fitted in the window Oct 23-7, between her arrival in the UK and a stint in Ireland with the Watersons. I tried London, but couldn't find a venue the right size in that window, but could get Salford and Glasgow. As well as the 27th's concert in Peel Hall at the university of Salford, we had one on the 24th under the auspices of Glasgow Caledonian University's Centre for Political Song - as I see Tattie Bogle has just mentioned in the latest post.

The shape of the show was really set by Peggy, who wanted 'songs that the Old Bugger would have admired', not just his own - she feared that she might wince at the way some of his songs might be sung. She was also adamant that we have no more than eight performers, remembering the celebrations for Ewan's 70th, which, in her words, 'went on for ever'.

The line-up was intended to include old friends and young admirers, and the result reflected that, plus who was available when. At both venues we had Peggy, plus John Faulkner, Bob Blair and Brian Pearson, all Critics Group members (and, before you ask, that hatchet is well and truly buried now). We would have had Sandra Kerr, but she was stricken and unable to come even just as accompanist. David Ferrard was also at both. In Glasgow were Jimmie MacGregor and Frankie Armstrong, in Salford Jez Lowe and Bob Fox, and in Glasgow the excellent local singers Anne Neilson and Gordeaana McCulloch replaced Sandra, and Finlay Allison provided accompaniment, as did Peggy.

Yes, Peel Hall is a bit cavernous, and somewhat austere compared to the usual intimate folk venue (in fact it had only just been restored, beautifully). It was about the fifth venue I tried, but some were unavailable and most were too small to house the audience that we needed to cover the hiring cost and pay the performers more than a pittance.

As for publicity, MUP posted flyers out to all the folk clubs on the Folk NW list, and I sent some more to those who'd bought my Radio Ballad book off its website. I'm in London, so not ideally placed. Undoubtedly we could have done better (and I'm a rank amateur at all this) but at least we were sold out in Glasgow and got close to it in Salford. The first arrivals there were the lad from Bordeaux who has posted a message on this thread, a couple over from Germany, and a folk specialist from Italy who recorded Ewan extensively in 1988 and is preparing a book on him.

As for the show... Well, it was bound to be pot luck, but for me, what was striking was how consistently good the performances were. Peggy is still tremendous at 74, of course, but so were the other folk pensioners - Jimmie MacGregor, 80 next Spring, was unwell but superbly witty - and the old CG members (John Faulkner, Bob Blair and John Pearson). That's despite only performing occasionally, unlike David Ferrard, Jez Lowe and Bob Fox, who are on the road constantly (Jez was between Switzerland and Holland).

So I guess it did what I wanted, to celebrate Ewan, and if it stirred up some late night on-line debate, so much the better.


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 10:27 AM

You did an amazing job Peter and I feel sure that everybody who went had a great experience and heard lots of great songs well sung.

The message that never left the stage was:
"people are still singing old songs, Ewan's songs, our own songs and playing tunes only a few miles from this stage. Go to your local folk club and enjoy!"

I guess I have no right to ask to be included but many others who have been singing, playing and organising folk events for years do have that right, but the remained unaknowledged by the Celebration.

Cheers

L in C


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Subject: RE: Review: MacColl Celebration Salford
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 10:22 AM

I would be interested to read the autobiography. who is 'Ted Power' The one point no one has mentioned is his work in the 'right to roam' rambling legislation. This, as a country lad is more important to me than the music. The area I live in is entirely owned by Lord X down the road in a bloody castle. I can't set foot off the grass verge!


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