Folk sushhhhing folk

Subject: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:08 PM

I was at my Folk club the other night and a chap was playing that I have great respect for has a person and also for his guitar playing and singing.

Anyway I made a remark to the chap sitting next to me I hasten to add not loudly and the chap I was refering to above stopped playing and Sushhhhhhed me down the microphone and told me to be quiet because he couldnt concerntrate on what he was doing?

I was sitting right at the back of the hall so he could not have heard me unless he has very acute hearing comparable to that of a
Fruit Bat? apart from that it was PA night?

I think he got Rattled because he saw me talking and thats a completely differant thing.

Sushing at my local folk club has got completely out of hand everyones doing it to everyone it like contagous affliction.

If I come into a hall and someone is playing I will wait for them to finish before I sit down or walk across the Hall but I will be buggered if I am gonna be sushhhhed and told to be quiet by someone if they see me talking.

I have no issue with people talking because I shut me eyes and ears to the audiance so i cannot see or ear folk belt out the song and switch back on eyes and ears at the end of the song to hopefully a decent round of applause.

I thought the above was a complete over reacation by the performer.
so please folk only sushhhhh when it completely nessesary or its turns out to be a right Fiasco. and a bloody parlava
Regards Pierre.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:16 PM

In UK Folk Clubs, where there isn't a bar in the room, I think it's expected that the audience doesn't talk: full stop!

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:22 PM

Hi Tunesmith
The above comment,
Thats all very well but is that not what gives UK folks clubs the reputation for being clicky? "folks must communicate"
Being disruptive is one thing.
But seeing some one talk but not being able to hear them is another surely?

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:31 PM

Was he playing into a PA without a foldback monitor?

That can be a really disorienting experience. As the performer, you can't hear the volume of sound that's being thrown at the audience. But the audience hears a sound level high enough that they think it must be drowning out normal conversational speech. It does - for them. But not for the performer behind the speakers. They're only hearing their own *unamplified* sound level, and anything you say comes through to them exactly as if no electronics were present.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:34 PM

Hi, Pierre-
In the US, the term is "shushing" - interesting difference.
When I'm trying to listen to a song or sing something difficult or soft or in a minor key, any amount of conversation or background noise drives me crazy. A big part of that is that I have a hearing loss - so when sound comes from two sources, all I hear is an unintelligible din. This happens even if the primary source of sound is quite strong, and the secondary source quite weak.
BUT I have to say that I sometimes am guilty of the same thing that drives ME crazy when other people do it. I notice that some people talk VERY LOUD during some music event, so the people next to them can hear over the music. I wonder if they realize that the whole audience hears them, too. And I wonder if I'm guilty of the same thing, especially since my hearing loss makes me do strange things at times.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Tyke
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 06:56 PM

Sushhhing the Audiance disgusting and not very professional. How on earth are you suposed to answer you mobile phone quietly. They will be stopping you joining in on your Bowron next.














I'm joking!

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 08:04 PM

Try it at an orchestral concert and you'll be asked to leave... it's only manners to give the performer(s) your full attention, or have your chat outside the room. It's got nothing to do with 'being clicky', it's common courtesy.

It's also quite arrogant to suggest what you think the performer may or may not be able to hear from the stage. The performer in question may well have been aware of something you may not have been - other members of the audience being distracted by you, which has a knock-on effect.

If you cannot behave at a concert, stay away!!

As for 'PA', or more correctly, 'Sound Reinforcement' (PA is short for 'Public Address', ie an audio paging system), it isn't put there to mask the noise of the audience, it's there to help the audience hear, which is a vastly different thing.

My comments are made both as a performer and as a professional (ie day job) sound engineer...

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 08:33 PM

I've told this story here before, but I'll tell it again.

I've spent a lot of time singing in coffeehouses where, I fully realize, I am not the only attraction. It's the total experience the patrons are after. A high-priced cup of exotic coffee or chocolate or tea, plus miscellaneous light menu items such as freshly made sandwiches, cheese boards, pastries. . . .   And, of course, the singer.

Oftentimes they've come in after a movie or symphony concert. In the place where I sang a lot, it was not uncommon to see occasional formal dress—gowns, tuxes, and such. In such a situation, it would be egotistical and downright churlish of me to expect the patrons not to talk a bit.

I tended to minimize disruptions by singing in sets of about a half-hour's duration, like a night club act, with a half-hour break between. This gave time for conversation and for the waitresses to circulate among the tables and take orders—along with asking people who had been occupying a table for a long time if (ahem!) they would care to re-order. Then, when I come on at the expected time, most people were prepared to listen. But there usually would be a murmur here and there of quiet conversation. Sometimes a patron at a nearby table might ask a chronic babbler to keep it down.

I was up there on the riser with a mike connect to the sound system, and did my thing. No one in the place had any trouble hearing me, even over a quiet bit of nearby conversation. If someone wasn't especially interested in what I was doing, there were plenty there who were.

There was a guy who came in fairly frequently for awhile who told me he was an actor, and between sets he proceeded to give me vast quantities of advice on how I could—and should—improve my "act." Some of it was okay, but most of it was just him blowing up his ego. One of his bits of dogma was that it was the performer's responsibility to capture his attention. He had a number of criticisms of me, such as every now and then, I would do a set composed entirely of songs around a particular theme. He didn't like this. He found a half-hour of all nautical songs, for example, "boring." Counteract that was the occasional patron who told me that they especially liked it.

One evening he came in with a couple of friends, and as I sang, he ran his mouth at the top of his lungs. His friends looked downright embarrassed. All through my first couple of songs, his stage voice boomed through the place. He was letting me know that, even though people around him were giving him dirty looks and asking him to keep it down, I wasn't getting to him. I was boring him.

Finally, I'd had it with him! When I reached the end of my current song (the audience gave me an especially enthusiastic round of applause, letting me, and Alex, know that they were with me), I leaned forward with my mouth about an inch from the mike and, in my own stage voice, said

"Alex!"

My voice boomed and echoed through the place like the Voice of God. Startled, he looked up at me.

"Alex," I said firmly, "shut the hell up!!"

The audience burst into enthusiast applause complete with a few cheers. After a few seconds of sitting there stunned, Alex got up, walked out, and I never saw him again.

Don Firth

P. S. In a formal concert situation, if someone leans over and makes a quiet comment in someone else's ear, that's hardly something for the performer to take offense at. I see that all the time at symphony concerts, operas, and such. In a coffeehouse situation, one can hardly object to this. Loud conversation is hardly acceptable, though, and it's a capital crime in a formal concert, recital, or opera situation. But if the whole audience lapses into general conversation during the performance, the performer might take that as a message.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:03 PM

Yes, Don, exactly right. Been there!

We don't really know the exact situation mentioned in the opening post, but I'd think that if it were enough to distract the performer, it was probably a distraction to other members of the audience.

It also seems odd that this particular person seems to attract 'shushing' wherever he goes... perhaps there is a lesson to be learned?!

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:42 PM

Hello everyone
I do not find any of the singers at my local folk club boring they are all of various degrees of talent musically and vocally and a very incouraging aldience to boot with people joining in chorus lines and great rounds of applase at the end of each performance which does great things to ones confidence.

Jack Campin.
There are no fold back monitors at my club just two large speakers on stands ever side of the stage. The auldience sit at tables placed here and there in a large hall with two ajoining bars.

Most folk await the performer to finish what they are doing including myself before I go to the ajoining bars or even to the toilet.and has I said in a previous posting I never walk in front of the stage or across the hall or even get up untill the performer is finished. and all that applys to a lot of the folk who attend.

mobile phone are a boil on the backside of the population has far has Iam concerned and I wish folk would put them on vibrate.

They cannot be expected to turn them off incase of a outside emergency but some folk sit there texting while people perform which I think is much worse then being told off for a mere quiet comment.

I put it to you all that this chap got vexed because he had seen me speak. ie my lips moving. He could not have heard anything.
I have poor eyes sight but to make up for that very good hearing but has I say I turn meself off to the aldience picture in my mind the song Iam singing and turn meself off to the folk in the hall untill my performance is finished. I then come back to the aldience.

I admit I am a fairly young Pup when it come to singing and playing has no doubt you amy have gathered and my nerves are shot to pieces prior to getting up but certainly not through a few garbled whispers.

But crikey I do feel great once my perforce is finished and that its all gone well.

Clearly from some of the comments (which I appreciate) I am the one in the wrong and I will refrain in future. I dont want to go from being popular to unpopular over night.
Thank you all kind regards Pierre.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:54 PM

Bernard.
I do Not get Shushed whereever I go I am not a loud person and that is honest.
There are noisey folk at the club and I have been told off before has in a table load of people not has a individual.

I guess it time to take up a position on me own in the club.
I SUPPOSE THEY,LL MOAN ABOUT THAT NEXT WEEK After all some folk do sit on there own.
That way they can go stright to the perpetrators of the noise and not to a mild mannered man has I like to think that Iam.
Iam not a Dumb Cluck mind.
Regards to you Pierre

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:40 PM

Pierre

"I have no issue with people talking because I shut me eyes and ears to the audiance so i cannot see or ear folk belt out the song and switch back on eyes and ears at the end of the song to hopefully a decent round of applause."

It would be wrong to assume that because you have no issue with something, that others feel the same way!

Also audience feedback is a great measure of how you are doing, if you shut your eyes and ears to it how are you going to know?

Our session is held in a pub, there are always a few (non musical here for the drink) regulars that talk (mostly quietly) during the session. It is particularly satisfying to hear them go quiet when i'm performing.

It may only be for one song but you've captured them. Try a similar song/tune maybe you can capture them again and again!

CC

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 12:36 AM

Hi Commander Crabbe.

It is great to capture an aldience without doubt and I understand where you are coming from.
We have a wide range of members and guests who play a variaty of different songs and it is not all folk music by any means I play Chuck Berrys BYE BYE Johnny at the end of the night.

I dare say some folk clubs would scoff at that but we are quite a opened minded lot.
we are also a friendly lot we do have good regard and respect for each other but I have never seen it taken to this extream. in regards to a mere muttering.

I will take heed of whats been put to me on this thread.
I opened it for the advice.
Thank you all.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Stower
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 04:21 AM

If I had the choice of going to a folk club where I, as an audience member, may not be able to hear a performer due to unregulated audience chat or one where I know audience members will actually listen and will be told if they don't ... I'll choose the latter any day.

If I, as a floor performer, had to choose between these clubs, I wouldn't even bother going to the first. If I, as a booked performer, am asked to do a gig at both, I will refuse the first and tell the organiser why - and have done so.

"I will be buggered if I am gonna be sushhhhed and told to be quiet by someone if they see me talking." Pierre, it's called good manners. If you don't want good manners, choose a folk club where they don't care.

This reminds me of a gig the great Bruce Cockburn did a few years back, solo with full PA. During one introduction to a song, there was a man at the back talking audibly to the person stood next to him. Bruce stopped introducing the song. Then from the stage he said, "If you are talking loud enough for me to hear from up here you're certainly talking too loud for the people around you who have paid to hear me. SHUT THE FUCK UP!" He got a rousing cheer and round of applause from the audience.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Howard Jones
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 04:46 AM

I find the arrogance of the OP astonishing. Whether or not the performer could actually hear you, whatever you were doing was sufficient to distract him. As you yourself admit, you got him rattled. That puts you in the wrong.

A folk club is a concert situation - the audience is expected to shut up and pay attention. In return, the performer must be spot-on, because any mistakes are likely to be noticed. This is very different from performing in a bar, where you have to expect background chatter and distractions but where mistakes are less likely to matter.

People go to a folk club to listen to the music. If you want to hold a conversation, or even pass remarks, leave the room or at least wait until the music has finished. To do otherwise is disrespectful to the performer and the rest of the audience.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 05:12 AM

As a performer, having people talk while I'm performing is something that happens from time to time. If I'm playing in a bar or at a function - solo or with a band - then talking, chattering, laughing, shouting, conversation, glasses clinking, etc., is just part of what goes on. The same goes for folk singarounds or sessions in a public bar. I choose to be in the public bar - I put up with what goes on in the bar.

At a folk club, I would never shush a member of the audience who was muttering, whispering or talking - even loudly. It doesn't put me off - it tells me that they're perhaps not interested in what I'm playing - and it tells me that the loud talkers have no manners. But I think the silent toleration of it - perhaps with a meaningful glance at the obnoxious ones that other audience members can pick up on - is more effective. Actual heckling is a different matter completely - and I put down hecklers unmercifully, after the end of the song/tune. I've never been heckled in a folk club, but it's common enough when playing in pubs and you have to learn to deal with it.

Pierre - I personally wouldn't have said anything to you because it wouldn't have bothered me - but everyone's different.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 05:20 AM

I've been to a fair few sing a rounds and such with Pierre. Many situations where the quietest performer is usually overwhelmed by background chatter. PlC is not one of those. He is a lover (listener) not a fighter (talker). If he believes he was not loud enough to disrupt the performer, then knowing him as I do, I support him.

Evidently this performer was maybe hypersensitive, upset about something else entirely or as Jack said the sound in the room really does come over strong.

Still, it is poor behaviour to shush. It is not a class room and the performer is not a teacher. A lighter joking admonition or honest explanation would have been better way to handle the situation.

I agree with the texting on mobile phone thing. Bugs the hell out of me.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: GUEST,Flora G of Rakes of Rochester band.
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 05:41 AM

I did a barn dance the other night which included a large number of children. There was a lot of noise - but I mostly asked them for a minutes hush while I was explaining the dance. Fortunately this worked as most of the children and parents wanted to dance, but in another situation it might not have. After every second dance we had a few minutes break where we reminded dancers to take some liquid and we played a tune which allowed time for conversation.

I know I tend to forget that my voice is amplified and I have to resist the tempation to raise my voice.

I should be pleased to hear how other performers deal with this situation - any tips?

As to paid gigs in pubs - you tend to expect noise thus the reliance on PA. If the audience is listening you can talk a bit - introduce the band - tell a funny story - but if they are not - just play and ensure at least every third song/ tune is one they are likely to know.

A folk club is a club - there for the members of the club - so it is up to the club which sort of etiquette they wish to impose, not the performer. A performer can choose to accept or turn down a booking.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 05:48 AM

Hi Flora - we also alternate dances with tunes, unless the dancers are really up for it and to keep going without a break. We do a fair number of weddings (there's one tonight), and there are often many children. To be honest, our caller (and drummer) is quite a character, with a top hat, waistcoat and one of the longest bears in the land. He's also very witty and funny and rarely has to worry about getting attention.

S0 - if you want the children to pay attention and be reasonably quiet: acquire (a) a top hat (b) a waistcoat (c) a really long beard... :-)

Seriously, I've found over the years that being absolutely silent but very visible in front of an audience usually has the effect of making them quieten down - they're all wondering why you aren't saying or doing anything and a sudden hush descends.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 07:12 AM

Yes, Will, exactly - or to put it a different way, 'noise breeds noise'!

Flora: it's all very well if the performer is aware of the situation before accepting the gig, but to find out on the night is unaccepatable - and could be considered a 'breach of contract'.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 07:23 AM

Saw a Top Guitarist/Singer doing a gig - In trhe middle of a song with a VERY Neat Guitar break , someone came in and left the door to the bar wide open ! Cessation of Music - "SHUT THAT F****** DOOR" and music resumed right where it had stopped ! Brilliant !!
Concerts , (And Clubs) KEEP QUIET !! Bar sessions , are a different matter !

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:12 AM

Will Fly writes: 'To be honest, our caller (and drummer) is quite a character, with a top hat, waistcoat and one of the longest bears in the land.' I didn't know James was licensed to perform with animals.

I agree that an active sort of silence or sharply dropping the volume can effectively produce a sudden hush. Having got the hush, you've then got to hold the listeners' attention

Tootle pip,

Valmai

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Tyke
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:18 AM

The main reason for paying to get into a "Folk Club" is so that the organizers can take limited control of the room. I has nothing to do with the cost or who's on it is to allow for those little subtleties of a live performance.

On the other hand I agree with Captain Crab the pleasure and satisfaction gained in capturing the audiences attention in a bar room situation is fantastic.

Some one on the Mobile Phone learn to walk play and sing and stand right next to them in the audience. The thing I have most difficulty with that I find very annoying is someone coming and standing between myself and the audience in the middle of a performance. Not only dose he or she soak up all the sound but they always manage to distracted the audience so that the lose the plot and story line.

What do you do? Well you do not loose your cool and be polite and smile. I once brought all the Musicians out on strike until the offending customer bought a round of drinks for all the Musicians in the session.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:29 AM

Hi Valmai - James is indeed licensed to perform with animals - and also has one of the longest beards in the land :-)

As it happens, one of the quietest band members is Reg, James's bull terrier. He has been known to play the bones but usually spends most of his time snoozing on the stage, between the PA speaker and me - farting occasionally (Reg, that is, not me).

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: melodeonboy
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:38 AM

"I've been to a fair few sing a rounds and such with Pierre. Many situations where the quietest performer is usually overwhelmed by background chatter. PlC is not one of those."

Yes, Tam. I agree with your comments on PlC. I also think you're right to point out the background chatter that goes on. (For general information, Tam and I often go to the same sessions.) The odd quietly spoken or whispered comment, or even heckle, where appropriate, is neither here nor there, but it's sometimes the case that a performer will sing his or her song, preferring, if not expecting, the attention of others, and then burst into full-blown gossip mode when the next person starts singing. I don't like to be bossy, so I don't generally make an issue of it, but I am aware of it, and I think it's rather disrespectful to the performer, and I find it quite tiring trying to listen to someone play or sing while there's chatter going on. It doesn't affect me so much when I sing 'cos I've got a voice like a foghorn, but it's hard on those who sing more quietly.

The above applies primarily to the singarounds that I go to. I obviously wouldn't apply the same criteria to pub gigs. As for amplified "concert style" performances....hmmm, I'm not sure; I suppose it depends on the situation.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:42 AM

In the UK, the term is also "shushing".

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: melodeonboy
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:49 AM

"In the UK, the term is also "shushing"."

Quite. "Sushhhhing" is a rather specialised verb which refers to the act of eating vinegar rice by a person with a stammer.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:51 AM

I belong to the foghorn club too, but I still find it difficult to start if there is a lot going on. Didn't used to be the case. I used to just jump in and if people stopped to listen, ok. If they didn't that was ok too.   usually the shear volume of my voice settled every one right quick.

Now, I feel like I am interrupting the goings on, if I just jump in. Suddenly I've come over all shy. If I could work up witty or informative things to start, wedge in that AHEM moment before I launch in song it would be better. Too shy for that too.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:55 AM

Mel - absolutely! I was trying to steer the thread in that direction, cos that's much more of a problem in my local folk club - any ideas? :)

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 10:53 AM

What is cliquey is the performers who have friends /drinking companions and are give hush when they perform then sit talking during other performances.
They also tend towards the end of the evening to assume the right to take over the sing around or session and any one who isn't in their crowd gets any further chance to sing or play.
Its pure ignorance.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 10:56 AM

ignorance would be forgivable.. that is pure rudeness.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:06 AM

Yes, Tim, I've seen that occasionally. Sometimes they even leave the room when someone else is playing/singing, and return when their friend(s) turn comes around.

I suppose they are less distracting when out of the room, but it's equally rude and insulting!

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Old Vermin
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:24 AM

Varies with context. Local pub session in bar, conversation goes on round it. Can go quiet for a singer - or not.

In a club, turning round and raising and eyebrow seems to work well. Have known the wife or partner of a paid act chat during a floor spot preceding - there's living dangerously.

Performers need to cope with it. Very good guitarist of may acquaintance came to a dramatic halt when someone coughed or spoke during his performance and rather flouncily said 'Do you mind, I [heavily emphasised] am playing'. Not a good idea to suffer sense of humour failure. Yes, he's very good, but the point is to entertain and inform the audience, not to let them know about any excess self-esteem.

Having someone go on talking when you're trying halting to sing is rough. Also very effective feed-back.

If someone is being a total tw*t, see what allies you have ine hte room.

Presently I find a small club audience will listen, probably to see if I can get through the piece without it falling over....

As for mobile phones...

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Reinhard
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:27 AM

Yesterday i was at a concert, and in the interval I showed the singer a cover version of a Sandy Denny song on my iPod. I stored it away in my pocket without noticing that I didn't switch it off properly. Unfortunately Linde sang the first song after the interval unaccompanied when I noticed that the iPod was still playing quietly through the earplugs. Embarrassed I tried to cover the plugs with my hands but to no avail - Linde heard it, stopped in mid verse and asked who was playing music. I didn't have such red ears in a long time...

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:35 AM

Hi EVERYONE.
To those above VT and Melodean boy who have joined me in past singer-rounds thanks for the above character references.
many of the folk who have commented on this thread do not know me and so judge me on what they themselves interpret possible from my postings. and some make judgments that are completely wrong and out of my character completely. Thats to be expected on a forum
But

I put it to you that the chap I am referring to may be sensitive and expect absolute silence while he performed but he was over the top on this used me to shut up every body else and I find that rude . Where would all these perfectionists be without a audience sitting at home playing to the Cat or up in a bedroom maybe and apart from that .
Two wrongs do not make a right, in regards to what is rude and ho is being rude to who.
I hope that makes sense?
Kind regards to all .
PLC

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:49 AM

Bernard - some folk clubs are in private rooms - some in public bars. I think most performers or their agents would find out about the club they are going to before they attend. I should also think they would find out if it is a performers club or an audience club - as you would tend to do a lot more choras songs in the former. I am always surprised at how much folk clubs vary.

I know Mary Black got very cross at a previous venue of the Cambridge folk club because of the noise but it was a room with a bar in it - and few bar staff would consider not serving. The room they have now is an upstairs one without a bar so is much better.

I know Doug Hudson who does some agency work from Broadstairs has actually said to me that some venues would not be suitable for us - bless him. As an agent he knows his venues well.

Sessions in public bars are more difficult. The bar is the preserve ( reserve) of the locals. Do songs with 90% choras content if noisy would be my advice. Miss a turn if your voice / instrument is not loud enough.

Will Fly - thanks for your advice about the Top hat. I think a distinct image is a good idea.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 12:07 PM

Hey Pete,

At least it wasn't a repeat of the chair emitting rude noises scenario.

You do seem to get lucky (NOT) in the drawing unwanted attention to yourself area. Remind me not to sit next to you any more. Don't want to get caught in the fall out.

:P


You knows I loves ya.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: GUEST,Jenny Brampton
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 03:40 PM

When the singer's on, shut the f+ + k up!
Simples
JB

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 04:40 PM

Hi VT.
Clearly I just want to hear what folk have to say and I have read all the threads and will continue to follow it with interest. The chair leg scraping on the floor board incident resulting in that Fart like sound was clearly a accident.

I remember once I went to a club above a pub and a man brought a dog in with him. He secured the dog by putting the loop of the dog lead around the table leg.

The dog settled down under the table has good has gold. The bar was down stairs and when the chap had finished his drink he went down stairs to get another pint and has soon has he dissapeared from the dogs sight the dog flew after him.

Beer went everwhere and the table was dragged some yards acroos the floor.

On another accasion some one was reciting a poem over the light of a candle WHILE STILL SEATED at the table and suddenly a big brown mark appeared in the center of the page. she the candle flame had set the bloody paper alight.
Having lighteniong reflexes I threw me pint over the flames and put the flame out. It was a thankless task because all folk done was moaned at me for covering them in beer.
and everone started sushhhhhing me then too.
regards Pierre.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 06:34 PM

I agree with VT, a performer being outright unpleasant or sarcastic to paying member/s of the audience, is bad form (unless they are receiving abuse themselves.) It also causes discomfort to ALL, as we witnessed at Knockers last June with one member loudly complaining about a noisy but jolly crowd of newcomers. Sometimes folks don't necessarily realise they're being noisy, and they can cause disruption without realising it's 'not the done thing' or it's disturbing others. I used to think it was rather rude when people sometimes chatted through other peoples performances, but I got used to the informality of a song session, and realised that it's not a precious environment. It doesn't bother me now, though if I were hearing a very 'light' unaccompanied singer or a sweet little solo on guitar, I think most people would be sensitive to that and pipe down accordingly.
If a performer feels the need to 'silence' his audience, he should either do something stunning which captivates, or at least work out before-hand friendly or amusing methods of communicating to problematic audience member/s that they need to keep shtoom.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Kampervan
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 06:50 PM

That's a pretty selfish viewpoint, Crow Sister.
Just because you don't want to listen to the performance doesn't mean that someone next to you, or just in front of you, doesn't want to either.
Maybe they're loving it, and having paid to hear the performer don't want to listen to your whispering.
If you don't like what's on, go outside to talk.

K/van

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Folknacious
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 07:01 PM

Anything which makes the audience uncomfortable and gives the impression that they are not allowed to relax and enjoy themselves is a bad thing. Folk clubs that feel like a church or a classroom do not do the music any good at all. If a performer can't hold the audience's attention in a venue set up specifically for lovers of the type of music they play, they usually only have themselves to blame. There's no excuse for rudeness and inconsiderate, oblivious chatting, but no wonder folk clubs are seen by many as the last place you'd go for a good night out. Just imagine prim, self-important people going "shush" in the Blaxhall Ship of old . . .

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: michaelr
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 07:06 PM

My band (lightly amplified acoustic folk) was playing an afternoon gig at a brewpub. A couple with a toddler came in and the child began to emit extremely loud, ear-piercing screeches at 40-second intervals.

After a few of these, I stopped in mid-song and said, not in an unfriendly way, "I can't work under these conditions. Please restrain your child from screaming."
The young couple was mortified and let soon after. My band members berated me for being rude. Was I?

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 07:11 PM

Hey KVan, where did I say anything like what you said?

I don't think I condoned talking through a paid performance, I said it's a good idea if the performer has *pleasant strategies* to hand for managing noisy audience members (who might not realise they are causing disturbance), instead of being rough about it.

I also said I used to find other peoples chatty behaviour in song sessions rude, but now I'm used to it and accept the informality as a norm.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Tyke
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 07:14 PM

I told the Resident Whitby Buskers in the middle of a a song that if they did not stop talking whilst I was singing that. I would come down and talk whilst they were Busking. Keep smiling humor works just don't get anyone back up.

Failing that pick on the smallest quietist person in the room and the when no one is looking buy him a pint.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:06 PM

I also said I used to find other peoples chatty behaviour in song sessions rude, but now I'm used to it and accept the informality as a norm.

That was why I asked about the PA setup - the one I guessed might be in place (and which actually was, on PlC's account) is not informal at all. One person is up behind the mike performing, and they're in a situation which feels nothing like being in an unamplified singaround with background chatter. It makes people chatter at much greater volume, since as they perceive it, nothing they say can be heard very far over the PA sound. But the performer behind the mike isn't hearing any PA sound, since it's it's so directional - they're only getting their own unamplified sound. Along with the sound from the auditorium of people chatting away at volumes high enough to compete with PA. This feels quite bizarre and scary as hell.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 09:23 PM

FOLKNACIOUS Echoes what I said earlier in I quote

"no wonder some folk think that folk clubs are the last place to go for a good night out.
"Exactly"
That is what I ment in my earlier posting in regards to folk clubs being clicky.

My folk club where this took place is not like the clubs some of you lot discribe on this thread whereby breathing out is banned while performers are performing.
"Are you allowed to drink while performers are performing
.Yes but you are not allowed to swollow.

The chap who sushed me was pleasent and polite about it. Ok I got cross because I thought that was uncalled for but Christ I,ll stick with the folk I know. Bugger going to some of your clubs.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 09:41 PM

Sometimes playing with a PA can mean this kind of thing is worse. Someone makes a remark to a neighbour in what seems like a quiet voice with the music playing - but by chance times it just when there is no music and no singing, because silence and pauses can be an important part of putting over a song.

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 10:26 PM

Sushis in pubs? whatever next... :0

Subject: RE: Folk sushhhhing folk
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 08:24 AM

Thank heavens that audience do keep quiet and listen in folk clubs.
I remember being at the Cambridge Folk Festival many years ago. Bert Jansch was performing in one of those big tents, and the audience listening quietly, and attentively, to his spoken introductions but then engaged in endless converations while he was singing. Very strange.