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BS: Organic Beef, anyone?

SINSULL 03 Nov 09 - 01:13 PM
gnu 03 Nov 09 - 01:17 PM
Charley Noble 03 Nov 09 - 04:24 PM
bankley 03 Nov 09 - 05:14 PM
Rapparee 03 Nov 09 - 06:00 PM
gnu 03 Nov 09 - 06:04 PM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Nov 09 - 06:36 PM
Hollowfox 03 Nov 09 - 07:01 PM
Rapparee 03 Nov 09 - 07:41 PM
LilyFestre 03 Nov 09 - 07:45 PM
Charley Noble 03 Nov 09 - 07:50 PM
Bill D 03 Nov 09 - 08:27 PM
Leadfingers 03 Nov 09 - 08:32 PM
Dave Hanson 04 Nov 09 - 03:36 AM
GREEN WELLIES 04 Nov 09 - 06:38 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 04 Nov 09 - 09:58 AM
Bettynh 04 Nov 09 - 11:00 AM
GREEN WELLIES 04 Nov 09 - 11:16 AM
Rapparee 04 Nov 09 - 01:12 PM
GUEST,Omnivore 05 Nov 09 - 04:11 AM
GUEST,CS 05 Nov 09 - 05:35 AM
Bonzo3legs 05 Nov 09 - 05:40 AM
GREEN WELLIES 05 Nov 09 - 05:50 AM
bubblyrat 05 Nov 09 - 05:54 AM
GUEST,CS 05 Nov 09 - 06:28 AM
GREEN WELLIES 05 Nov 09 - 06:47 AM
MAG 05 Nov 09 - 03:33 PM
GREEN WELLIES 06 Nov 09 - 03:32 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 06 Nov 09 - 07:06 AM
GREEN WELLIES 06 Nov 09 - 06:44 PM
LilyFestre 06 Nov 09 - 06:51 PM
John P 06 Nov 09 - 09:41 PM
Stringsinger 07 Nov 09 - 11:40 AM

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Subject: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 01:13 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33602712/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

My conscience tells me I have to start eating a Vegan diet. Three weeks ago it was a chicken farm grinding up baby male chicks alive while cleaning the females in a bath hot enough to scald some to death.The beaks were cut off leving some with infections and unable to eat.

There has to be a better way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: gnu
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 01:17 PM

Oh dear. Sick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 04:24 PM

Very sad and I hope they are shut down for good.

Of course when one butchers cattle, pigs, sheep, etc., there is nothing humane about the process, even if one bashes their heads in with a sledge hammer before slitting their throats.

Butchering livestock is not one of my more pleasant memories from growing up on a dairy farm.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: bankley
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 05:14 PM

mine neither.... I've been eating Bison for a few years from a ranch not far away...lucky... that and fish... haven't had beef or pig for a long time.... don't miss it..


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 06:00 PM

Humans started eating animals because humans, like pigs and bears, are omnivorous. We can, however, kill them as humanely as we can AND treat them with the respect other living things (and food) deserve. This respect also applies to plant life, by the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: gnu
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 06:04 PM

I find nothing wrong with killing an animal for sustinence. But, it has to be done with some civility for the animal or it is an inhuman act... not just inhumane... inhuman.

When I was a hunter, the animals I killed had no idea of their demise, and such were not the horror stories I have read here and otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 06:36 PM

Nothing says that if the beef is labelled organic that the cattle were killed in a more humane way. 'Organic' is a very loose term, but it's got to apply to substances, not to behavior.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Hollowfox
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 07:01 PM

Being as cows are carbon-based lifeforms, they're *all* organic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 07:41 PM

Without any trouble at all (except paying for it) I can obtain grass-fed, "free range" beef, farmed elk, farmed bison, "free-range" chicken and mutton...even tofurkey (which runs wild in the hills around here and upon which there is no hunting season, bag, or possession limits).


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 07:45 PM

That's not new news about the chickens. Beaks are often blunted to keep the birds from killing one another. And male chicks are often buried alive. My friend lived near one of these places long ago and told us stories about how the field actually peeps. Makes me sick.

We raise our own birds. And this year we have a cow. We've had pigs in the past. Many people ask me how we can eat the meat....the thing is, we don't get attached, we KNOW what the animals have been fed AND we know they have had a good life here. The pigs were out to play in the snow, I have photos of my husband playing with the cow and we keep in touch with reality by naming our animals with something that serves as a reminder:

Chuck
Stewie
Hammy
Baky...you get the idea.

Michellle


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 07:50 PM

If I read and think too much about threads like this one, I'd have to become a vegetarian. I certainly would if I had to butcher my own meat.

It's a pity because I really like to prepare and eat a whole range of meat products.

At least in Ethiopia no domestic animal was butchered for the stew pot until it was no longer productive.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 08:27 PM

When speedy 'production' become the paramount consideration, abuses are going to occur.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Nov 09 - 08:32 PM

It is an unfortunate fact that SOME humans are sufficiently insensitive (A Polite way of sayng BLOODY STUPID) that they forget animals are actually sentient beings and NOT just 'Product'.
So every now and then 'The Authorities' have to take action against
places like the slaughterhouse in the News story to make sure the idiots are reminded that they MUST act in a sensible and sensitive way to the creatures they are dealing with


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 03:36 AM

Look, if god hadn't meant us to eat animals why did he make them taste so good ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 06:38 AM

Been veggie for over 30 years. Not because I dont think people shouldnt eat meat, but purely because of the vile way farm animals are treated during their production, they way they are transported, and the way they meet their end.

And its not stuff I've read in books etc., I come from a farming family, live in the countryside and have many friends who are farmers.
Its a subject we stay off in the pub.

Just wont fund it by buying the stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 09:58 AM

This is what is termed as "conservation grade" - I'm not quite sure what that means but it's definitely humane:

http://www.burrenlife.com/news.php?nid=36&fulltext=1


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Bettynh
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 11:00 AM

If you can find kosher or halal meats, you can be guilt-free. Other folks figured this out a long time ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 11:16 AM

Not sure what the process with Kosher is but Halal meat has its throat cut and left to bleed to death. The animals can sense the terror of the second to be killed and this terror runs through the whole group. Dont be under the illusion that they kill them separately, my sister in law is a moslem living in Damascus and has first hand knowledge of this practice.

No kinder than the 'conventional' method of slaughter, where animals are 'supposed' to be stunned first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 01:12 PM

Deep down inside, I think you shouldn't eat anything you don't raise or kill and butcher yourself.

But I'm an idealist....


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GUEST,Omnivore
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 04:11 AM

GoodFightLad - has an excellent video on his YouTube - of the Halal Meat processing in the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:35 AM

A little bit of a thread drift here, but maybe someone who knows can offer some insight?

I'm aware the dairy industry is cruel, but I love cheese.

Lately I've been eating less cows milk products (I swap dairy yoghourt and milk products for soya) but I love cheese and soya stuff is no good.

I wonder if sheep and goat milk cheeses and other products, are less cruel than average equivalent cow milk products?
Just thinking that the farming industry for sheep and goat milk, will be much smaller, and thus perhaps less likely to be abusive?


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:40 AM

Argentine beef suits me fine - best in the world!


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:50 AM

Guest CS

As a veggie I do find this a hard one. Basically for a cow, ewe etc to produce milk they have to have a calf, lamb etc. OK whether they are on an organic farm or not the unwanted offspring have to be disposed of particularly the male offspring. Thats the difficult point - do you unintentionally support the slaughter industry, or give up all dairy products.

I agree soya 'cheese' etc is just horrible.

I only buy organic dairy products. At least doing this I know the animals involved are being cared for properly, not spending half their year in dark barns, on concrete floors, fed growth promotors, and antibiotics. Also they are fed on organic feed, which is 100% natural, not contaminated with slaughter house bye-products. How these animals meet their end, well, we can only hope that they are as well cared for on their final journey. An ideal world and all that.

For me there have to be compromises, but thats my personal choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:54 AM

I refuse to be drawn into this Fray.
             Ben Tos


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:28 AM

Green Wellies, I agree - we each can find our own level, without having to go to either extreme of a) full veganism, or b) simply not taking any interest whatever in animal welfare issues in the meat industry. Every consumer has the power to make a difference, without necessarily being radical about it.

There are simple things anyone with a modicum of interest in animal welfare can take, which have very little inconvenient impact on one's lifestyle but have major implications in terms of reducing the suffering of animals: like choosing a free-range or 'welfare standard' chicken over a factory farmed one. Having a couple of meat free meals per week. Trying game meats sometimes. Buying British bangers. Using soy milk or oat milk on cereal or in milkshake.

As a 'demi' or 'flexi' who also has periods of full vegetarianism, these are the 'drip-drip' approaches I tend to take.

Some of the ignorant reaction against vegetarian food makes me smile though. You will here people say "I don't like that vegetarian food" as though it's something totally foreign or nasty tasting, and I think "Never had beans on toast, or maceroni cheese then?" ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:47 AM

CS .........Well said, I am a firm believer of each to his/her own, and have known/worked with people for years and they've not been aware that I am a veggie because I dont bang on about it.

I do what I do for my own reasons. I just wish the farming and food producing industries were a little more animal friendly, but people demand cheap food - thats life.

Ps, we also have our own organic free range chickens - they're all ex-batteries ladies - of course !!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: MAG
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 03:33 PM

If anyone has not seen the documentary "Food, Inc." I would highly recommend it.

I had to see it in Portland; it will never play where I live.)

I think free range eggs are OK, especially if the producer lets the hens live out their natural lives after producing eggs for a long time. You still have to wonder about the excess male offspring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 03:32 AM

We have 15 hens and are only getting 1-3 eggs per day at the moment - someone's not pulling their weight ladies!

Some of the male chicks are simply ground up and used as a source of protine in animal feed - Spillers use it in their horse feeds. Needless to say we do not use Spillers. We only use Allen and Page feeds, they are certified by the Soil Association and the Vegetarian Society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 07:06 AM

What gets me about chicken eggs is I can get organic ones and I can get free range ones but I've yet to find organic/free range in the same product - anyone else find this problem and why so?


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:44 PM

Ours are organic and free range. Its hard work.

Free range is quite well known, so many hours out, room to scratch, flap about etc etc., organic is the hard bit.

They have to be fed only on authorised/approved organic feed, the wormer they are given and any other supplements also have to be organic, as is, and I'm not 100% on this bit, the pasture they have access to.

You are not allowed to use herbicide or chemicals on the grass they have access to. Basically they should have no contact with anything chemical which can get into the egg.

And then after all that you are not allowed to advertise, market or sell them as organic unless you are members of the Soil Association. You are inspected and approved by their staff and then their fee is something like £1,000 per year for their approval, providing you meet all their criteria, which is really strict.

We follow all their organic standards but are not approved as we refuse to pay the extortionate fee in order to sell a few excess eggs to our neighbour.

Like I said its hard work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:51 PM

We have organic free range (of course they DO have a large fenced in area...otherwise we find eggs on our porch, in potted plants, and occasionally in a (kayaking) shoe that has been left outside to dry) eggs at our house...of course we raise the hens.....and I have to say, they are the best damn eggs ever! Bright orange yolks (not pale yellow) that have more flavor than I ever knew an egg could have!! I have friends who actually get upset when I don't have extra eggs to share!

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: John P
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:41 PM

I find nothing wrong with killing an animal for sustinence. But, it has to be done with some civility for the animal or it is an inhuman act... not just inhumane... inhuman.

Can someone please tell me how killing something can be humane? Killing with kindness? Shutting your eyes first? Come on, you're KILLING it.

Being as cows are carbon-based lifeforms, they're *all* organic.

I hope this was a joke and not hopelessly ignorant . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Beef, anyone?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 11:40 AM

Humans are not necessarily omnivorous. This is matter of opinion, not science.
The field of nutrition is rife with mis and disinformation.

The term "organic" has become compromised.

Many of the most prevalent diseases today can be attributed to dairy and flesh eating and this can be backed up with medical statistics.

Today you have powerful lobbying interests such as dairy producers, pork and chicken manufacturers and the beef industry.

You also take your life in your hands when you eat at Arbys, Macdonalds, Subway, Burger King, Taco Bell and other foolish fast food establishments.


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Mudcat time: 23 October 8:23 PM EDT

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