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'Share this thread'?
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Subject: 'Share this thread'? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Nov 09 - 08:15 AM I've just noticed we now have a new facility here - at the bottom of threads there is a button for "share this thread", which opens a whole menu of options such as FaceBook, MySpace, Twitter etc. I don't know how long we've had it, buut I only noticed it today This doesn't really seem to me a very good idea. One of the best things about the Mudcat has been that it has provided an opportunity to discuss all kind of things with people with whom we may feel strongly at odds with - but with whom we have a fundamental civilising link in that we care about folk music. Inevitably this has been eroded as people come in who don't share that interest, but these have always seemed to be in a minority, though often an extremely vocal and sometime strident minority. However the "share this thread" option feels to me like a step too far. Could I suggest that it might be better if it was confined to the music section, where it wouldn't be so likely to pull in too many people who have no interest whatsoever in folk music? |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Spleen Cringe Date: 07 Nov 09 - 08:32 AM Good idea. I agree with you. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Stower Date: 07 Nov 09 - 08:34 AM McGrath, I completely agree with you. (I also think there is a strong argument for making Mudcat members only, in terms of contributions to threads, to stop a lot of abuse from non-member flamers, but that's perhaps the subject of another thread.) |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 07 Nov 09 - 08:47 AM I agree, I don't like the 'share this thread' thing either. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Charley Noble Date: 07 Nov 09 - 08:57 AM I'm not sure what to think of it. Does Mudcat Central have an explanation or did it just happen? Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:14 AM I agree. Strongly. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Max Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:24 AM experimentation You have to remember that social networking is based on relationships. One would expect that your Facebook friends or Twitter followers share the same sensibilities and interests as you do. We're not inviting strangers in, we're expanding our reach of connection. And connection is what made this place meaningful in the first place. A long-time member, whom I have much respect, made a comment to me recently that we've become a closed society that perpetuates the same ideology and opinion. I'm not exactly thrilled with the tone of late, we've become very... dogmatic, it seems. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Tim Leaning Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:42 AM "we've become very... dogmatic, it seems." I thought that was all part of the tradition OOOps |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:53 AM I noticed the new feature this morning & got a hell of a shock when my cursor hit it sometime later & I ended up on a facebook page. I jumped out of that very quickly. I have a gmail address & a MyOpera photowebsite, but have not seen any need to join either community. Friends run a Flickr pool to which I could contribute, but again, I see no need to join another photo site. I find Mudcat & my other, non-music site enough for my on-line community needs. But then, I'm a bit odd - I don't even have a mobile (cell) phone, I've never needed one. I'll be interested to read comments from folks who use facebook, twitter etc. sandra (sitting here stunned after clicking on More under Share This Thread - just what are all those other things/applications/sites) |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Max Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:01 AM Exactly Tim. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:05 AM Well, I'll be careful not to load the MOAB onto my Facebook page. Might lose a few friends that way. . . ;-D |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:16 AM Max, tech tools are nice, but intentionality is a higher value, and a much better mode to go slow enough on a slippery slope to be sure the direction is UP, not DOWN. .... You have to remember that social networking is based on relationships..... Well, I disagree, and I bet I am not the only independent-minded, crochety old folkie who does: we do NOT "have to remember" what ANYONE else suggests we "have to" remember, not even in a quick turn of a phrase for emphasis. The beauty of Mudcat is that this is so for all of us. It is the most anti-dogmatic, anti-doctrinal thing about Mudcat! :~) And this is the first Mudcat "new feature" magically appearing that I have ever seen that scares me. I've seen, welcomed, and used many new features over the years. I LIKE change. I've worked for it, often, in many settings, over a lifetime of career changes. But the real issue-- "social networking" as we know it in today's techworld is based on marketing captures-- with "relationships" as the trojan horse that carry the marketing. The data mining, the usage stats, the demographics, the trends that catch a buzz-- all of that is about money, not relationship. It is SOLD as relationship, but that don't make it so. It is not at all the same as networking in realtime with real flesh and blood, where people who exchange bizcards actually live in (and are accountable in) the same town or business community. Till now, Mudcat has been a smallish pond where the fish know each other, but now it can become a big one where sharks are costumed as dolphins. There is Big Money behind social networking. And ultimately, Big Money is only interested in one thing. === I don't think Max is part of all that, and I do not think that opening the Cat up to make it a mere click for the dogmaticians to spread their influence by dragging in more dogmaticians is the way to go, either. Sharing a thread, IMO, OUGHT to involve a certain amount of work and the pace of thought that the work allows. If I want to share a thread, I have to actually write a friend an email message. It's cumbersome enough that I have not done it often. There are some folks here who thank their lucky stars that it IS that way. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Rog Peek Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:27 AM Could I ask, is this 'share this thread' facility available to guests who log onto the site? Rog |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:36 AM I loathe 'social networking' sites personally and think most of that stuff is a load of vacuous crap - and though I have created a MySpace Music page specifically for connecting with other people who make *music*, I tend to think that most 'social networking' sites seem quite devoid of any substance or content. I have made quite a few virtual and indeed real-life friends, through joining discussion boards focused on *specific areas of mutual interest*, and there's a vast difference to me, between a virtual community like this one - where there is a *unifying shared interest*, and general 'social networking' sites which have no apparent particular function other than 'being there'. All that being said, I thought the Twitter V's C. Ruck/Trafigura situation recently, was fascinating & heartening, so maybe I'll come round if I see more evidence of that kind of 'people power' thing arising from networking sites in future... All a bit of a thread drift there - but a good post Susan above, seconded. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Amos Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:44 AM I hadn't noticed it before. There is a "What's this?" button on the drop-down list of choices under "Share This" which leads to a page run by a company called "AddThis", which provides the "share" function. Here's what they say
The list is impressive and includes Homeland Security (the agency) and a mess of other sites who are probably a lot more security conscious than anyone here. I think what Max meant is obviously that you have to remember that social networking ios based on relationship IF you want to understand why experimenting with Share This is of interest. If you don't want to understand, of course, you don't have to. A |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: GUEST,Dani Date: 07 Nov 09 - 11:00 AM I like it! I sure would like to not see it on BS, though. I think that it might too easily and quickly have unintended consequences. And, we all should probably be reminded that even on our cozy, home-like mudcat, everything you post is there for all eternity. The other day I spent some time and tears on the Thanks Sandy thread, and that's the wonderful part of 'eternity'. Some of my posts? Not so much. You choose your facebook community (and mostly who has access), but posts here are for the world to read. Dani |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 07 Nov 09 - 11:16 AM "posts here are for the world to read." Yes I'm not keen on that but I nevertheless let it pass - because Mudcat is an untrendy folk forum with a quaint but awkward and antiquated format - so virtually the only people who are likely to actually *bother* reading it, are a bunch of crusty and harmless old folkies... :) |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 07 Nov 09 - 11:38 AM I disagree. I find Mudcat's format efficient and effective. "Quaint", I don't know and don't care too much. But, when I get on other sites that allow group discussion or user-to-user communication (MySpace, FaceBook, and on and on) I automatically compare the format to Mudcat's, and always to Mudcat's advantage. "Antiquated"? If that means that other sites don't use the clear and efficient Mudcat format, but rather load the screen up with visual bells and whistles, then I'll embrace "antiquated". But Mudcat, with its list(s) of threads, readily scannable, readily searchable back to the beginning but with currently active threads given a visual priority, is what SHOULD BE the future. Don't belittle it by implying that it belongs just to the past! Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Nov 09 - 12:09 PM For the music threads I can see that it might be on balance OK. But I do not feel at all comfortable about having it with the BS, particularly with some threads. And I am glad to see that most peoiple posting on this thread seem to share my discomfort. I hope that, if this open-ended "share this thread" doesn't get removed soon, there is at least some intention to monitor how things go. I think it could very easily wreck things here. "But, when I get on other sites that allow group discussion or user-to-user communication (MySpace, FaceBook, and on and on) I automatically compare the format to Mudcat's, and always to Mudcat's advantage." I wholly agree with what Uncle Dave said there. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Nov 09 - 12:12 PM And now I see that there's a "share this thread" at the top of the thread as well as at the bottom. A bit like having a "kick me" sticker on your behind at a party... |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Nancy King Date: 07 Nov 09 - 12:13 PM I think I don't like the "share the thread" idea. For one thing, it puts Mudcat contributors who might not like to have their thoughts/words shared on other sites out there where they don't want to be -- and without their permission, presumably. I love Mudcat, and often enjoy Facebook, but they're two different things, and I say let's keep it that way! Just my two cents' worth... Nancy |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Bernard Date: 07 Nov 09 - 12:15 PM What's the big deal? If you like it, use it... if you don't then don't... nobody's holding a gun to your head! If you're bothered about people coming in here who are unwanted, then you'll have to block the search engines, etc. I, too, think Mudcat is the friendliest and easiest to follow of such sites. Spacebook, Myface or whatever are so cluttered with claptrap they don't even work peoperly these days! |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: The Sandman Date: 07 Nov 09 - 12:45 PM I definitely do not like share this thread,please can you abolish it. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: DebC Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:16 PM For me, I think it's great as I can use it to help promote our music. I first saw it on the So. Portland, ME Concert Permathread. What I can do is share the thread and not only publicise my own concert, but any others that are taking place. I can see this as a way to get word out about the music we care about. There are many many folks who are not on Mudcat who may be interested in concerts and performances, or just want to know where they can go to participate in a singer's night. I can see Gainsborough FC, and some of the other venues that have Permathreads benefitting from this. Maybe as a compromise for now, just place the "share..." on the Permathreads. Debra Cowan |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:23 PM For me, I think it's great as I can use it to help promote our music. Could well be useful for that. But removing it from the BS threads wouldn't get in the way of that. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: LilyFestre Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:27 PM I can understand several of the points being made here but I also think that it's nice I can share a thread I find of interest with someone I know on Facebook in just a second or two. I really haven't checked out the "Share This Thread" thing but being able to share a thread of Facebook means that only the people I am friends with (know and trust) would be able to access the thread...not some creeper with alternative intentions. I like it. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Janie Date: 07 Nov 09 - 02:09 PM I'm with Nancy and McGrath. Perhaps OK with the music threads, but not with the BS. I am well aware that anyone can wander into Mudcat and read anything they care to, but I do not much like the idea of what I write here being easily posted without thought or pause to other sites. We do have extensive histories with one another, and many, many of us have met in 3-D. Mudcat is more than just a social networking site. It is a community. All of the conversations take place within the context of that community. It is not a hard community to become part of, if one has the actual desire and attraction to do so, but becoming part of any community is a process. Communities also have boundaries - sometimes very closed, sometimes very open, but boundaries, none-the-less. I would venture that the boundaries of the Mudcat community fall pretty near the half-way mark between those two extremes. I am here and comfortable because of community, and that is what I most value. (And it took a little while, and some effort on my part. That is why I am invested and care about this place.) It is already possible to put up links to threads or copy and paste specific posts from Mudcat to somewhere else. But it takes a little time and thought to do it, so people are unlikely to do it impulsively and without some thought. That's my 2-cents worth. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: LilyFestre Date: 07 Nov 09 - 02:22 PM I think that makes Mudcat an exclusive community. If you want that kind of thing, then I say make it a pay site. Otherwise, it's free for anybody and so why NOT share it with others on different sites? More people means more (potential) income in donations for the site. And really, for some of the *welcomes* I've seen around here, it's not likely THAT many people will stick around...that includes in the music section where people can be pretty damn uppity. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 07 Nov 09 - 02:35 PM Are there 'pay' message boards on the web? I haven't seen any I must confess - though perhaps they are out there..? Still there are enough free ones never to need to pay for membership to one. For starters there are thousands of completely free Yahoo message boards which are either moderated or unmoderated, members only or visible to all, all depending whatever the forum originator/s decide on. Here's a couple possibly worth sharing for the forum members here: English Folk Song and Dance Traditional Song Forum All Ceilidh |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:06 PM I think that makes Mudcat an exclusive community. If you want that kind of thing, then I say make it a pay site. There's no process by which that could be done by members, even if we wanted it, because it's not a site that works that way. It's a benevolent dictatorship rather than a democracy, and on the whole I like it that way, because I trust the dictator, probably more than I would trust the members. This is the first time in ten years I've ever thought a change that has been introduced is a mistake, The Mudcat isn't exclusive, and never has been. It's like a folk club in that way. Anybody is welcome, but it's best if they have some interest in folk music. I'm glad that the Mudcat doesn't have the kind of rules that limit us to talking about folk music, the way that a lot of online sites with a particular interest do, but I worry about a development which could derail us - or could even mean a move towards a more exclusive Mudcat in the future. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Nancy King Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:09 PM Hear, hear, McGrath! |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Rog Peek Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:00 PM I agree with McGrath on this. IMO, the music section is an invaluable resourse for all interested in folk music and as such should be as widely availble as possible. For this reason, I have no problem with non members posting, or indeed the sharing any contributuions I might make. When it comes to BS however, I tend to see this as discussions I am having with people I have come to know, to trust, and in many cases, who I feel are friends (even though I have to date only met one person here). For this reason, I have always believed that non members should not be allowed to post in this section. I understand of course that the nature of this medium is such that anyone out there can 'listen' in on these conversations, and I accept this. However, that anyone and everyone who visits the forum should be encouraged to take a proactive stance in sharing these conversations anywhere and with anyone they wish is a step too far for me. I therefore believe that the facility to post by non members should be removed from the BS section , and that the facility to 'share this thread' should be removed from the BS section altogether. Rog
fixed it for you:-) |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Bill D Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:34 PM *IF* one wishes to call attention to something on Mudcat at Facebook or somewhere else, it is easy enough to do so. I am not sure why making it close to 'automatic' serves any useful purpose...except as noted, for those who have a vested interest in BEING promoted widely. Many folks arrive at Mudcat from a Google search for subjects that interest them. That, plus the option of just telling those who need to know, ought to be enough. When a 'Mudcat' page was created in Facebook, I registered out of curiosity to see what it was about. I made NO posts and stayed about 5 minutes...still, I immediately began getting requests..(53, up to now, I think) from people asking to be recognized.....maybe ¼ of whom I didn't know. I am a resonably gregarious fellow, but I simply cannot keep up with all that, and I dislike having to figure out how to 'opt out' and ignore and block stuff. Having so many connections be practically automatic bothers me, and I wish we had been polled on this BEFORE it just appeared. Mudcat used to have a logo saying "A magazine for blues & folk music". If it is now to be a forum for almost everything vaguely related to music, it does dilute one of the few forums anywhere that one CAN find folk/blues related stuff, and Facebook and Twitter and other 'social networking' sites being more closely connected is like having a 'party line' telephone. (trying to think of better metaphors). There are serious reasons for ANY site to have a focus and to not overdo extraneous discussions. Our BS section is supposed to for MEMBERS to discuss our wider interests, not to bring the World in...otherwise, why prohibit posts by unnamed guests? Let's re-evaluate what this new trick actually does, Max. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: katlaughing Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:34 PM I agree with Janie, esp. and also with Rog and McGrath. My first inclination was "great!" then I started thinking about it. Not so great..we don't have to embrace every new social networking thingie just because it's out there. Without it, so it takes a little bit of time and effort to copy the addy, paste it into an email or on FB or wherever, so what? The world moves at too fast of a pace anyway, so slow down, smell the roses and share by taking the time to do so. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: artbrooks Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:00 PM No thanks |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:02 PM DELIGHTFUL
Best Mudcat addition since the Blue Clicky
It is ALL about access... By the end of 2010... 14,000 new Mudcat Members... 1,000 a month - YES WE CAN !
Sincerely,
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: michaelr Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:15 PM Max has been adding little things one by one, such as Google ads, that presumably make some money for him, and who could blame him for that? Then there's that recent thing with the little pictures that pop up on top, which requires one to click twice on the back button instead of just once, which is on the level of a minor annoyance. I don't know or care what that's about, but I put up with it. As I have said before, I prefer to conduct my relationships in meat space, and therefore have no use for "social networking" over the web. Bottom line: if it generates income for Max to keep this site going, more power to him. Other than that, I doubt I'll ever be inclined to "share this thread"; it just seems like more internet bullshit that keeps people from having a real life. Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Rog Peek Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:18 PM Tell you what I would like, and that's five minutes to edit my posting. No matter how many times I read the bloody thing before posting, I never seem to spot the mistakes until I've posted, and then it's too damn late! Rog |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Jeri Date: 07 Nov 09 - 06:23 PM I think the worst is the fact Mudcat is searchable by Google. Not so much a problem with the music, but the searchable flame wars and personal (to someone) bugaboos have really attracted some nasties. Hell, even the music threads can get crazy when there are endless postings of the SAME lyrics. Facebook, and presumably other sites, don't really worry me. My Facebook friends would either enjoy the threads and be nice in them or not look. If I send out a links to things they don't like, they'll probably just ignore me. I don't think a lot of my friends are spammer-troll-predators. It would be better to have more people here who would appreciate the good stuff than stick with the same old crabby people with the same old complaints because of the same old bugs up their asses, and yes, I'm talking about me too. I rather like the thought of fresh voices with new points of view. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Beer Date: 07 Nov 09 - 08:15 PM I don't have a problem with it. I just won't use it. Beer (adrien) |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Kev Boyd Date: 07 Nov 09 - 08:39 PM I don't have a problem with it either - and there's a good chance I'll use it, if only occasionally. What most of the people objecting to this feature don't seem to take account of is the fact that the very people whose privacy they're trying to protect are the same ones who will be making use of this function. Who else do they think is going to use it? I appreciate there's a small and occasionally vocal group who'd prefer this to be a totally private forum but it's not... so get over it, frankly! Surely anyone who contributes to any open online forum must realise that their comments are liable to be disseminated beyond their original location. The 'share' function really doesn't change this. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: katlaughing Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:28 PM With all of the BNP crap and some of the old stuff with IRA stuff, I think there is a concern if just one of those types of threads is "shared", it could bring on a whole slew of nasty posters who are not members. I suppose it could be argued this can happen, and probably has, from google searches, but why make it any easier if one of them comes here from there? FWIW, I still think the BS should be for members only with some accommodation for folks such as "Russ, Permanent Guest" but then I don't know what folks would do on the secret santa threads. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:35 PM Since I joined Facebook my concert attendance has risen dramaticaly. It outdraws Myspace and my own website combined. I am all for the new feature. And remember, you are still in control because you still have to push that little red button. The coice is still yours to make. SOL |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:50 PM If Secret Santa threads moved to the main forum, that would solve the problem of us logging out & posting as Guests But then we would still have the problem of the health/private problems threads where a member logs out to discuss something significant, or wants to contribute when they're not at their own computer. As Sol & several others have said, it's our choice use the new feature. sandra |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Janie Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:02 PM I am not in control of someone sharing a thread that I posted to. Again, I understand that anyone can do a search and possibly find and read any thread here. But it takes a little work and desire to do so. Ditto linking threads to other sites. I do see there might be value to many who are musicians in making it easier for them to promote themselves, and there is priceless information in the music threads that I can see the value of sharing with interested parties with one click. But the BS section? I fervently hope not. If a link is shared to a music thread, that may well bring people to the site who have this core common interest. On further exploration, they may come back again, join, etc. But it will be their interest in the music that brings them. And that interest in music is what we all share, even when we differ in many other ways. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:07 PM Mudcat is the only thing I do that comes remotely close to "social networking" on the internet. I don't do Twitter, Facebook, et al. HOWEVER, I have no problem with Max's new option. Everything on the internet is accessible to everybody on the internet. Life on Mudcat is not like life in a gated community. It is like living in a house with glass walls al la Mies van der Rohe's Farnsworth House. Actually it's like living in a glass house with no curtains nor the ability to install curtains. Although I think Mudcat has become a bit inbred over the years, I still think it's a great site. GO MAX! Russ (Permanent GUEST) |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Nancy King Date: 08 Nov 09 - 12:39 AM "I am not in control of someone sharing a thread that I posted to." Exactly. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Mr Happy Date: 08 Nov 09 - 05:52 AM I've just scanned the list of other places on the 'share' menu. It doesn't include any music sites, which I find peculiar? |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 08 Nov 09 - 06:37 AM That's probably because they're all just a bunch of empty and vacuous 'social networking' sites, devoid of any genuine substance.. Message boards like this one, function like joining a real-world club filled with fellow enthusiasts for a particular activity or interest - that's why they naturally tend to generate virtual 'communities' which spill over into 3D - just like this one does. Some people appear to be under an illusion that Mudcat is somehow "special" because of that, I don't know how many other boards the members here belong to, but it isn't actually at-all unique in that regard. I've made great real-life friendships off other forums for other interests. As it is *old* and very established the longstanding members have however got to 'know' each other very well. And of course it's long history has left a great load of excellent material contributed from the many highly-informed members over the years - the volume and high-quality of those contributions, is what really distinguishes Mudcat from many of the other discussion boards out there IMO. And while I *can* see the value in members being able to share some of that archived knowledge with fellow enthusiasts, I just can't imagine it being particularly valued on superficial (IMO) social networking sites like Twitter or Facebook.. |
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Subject: RE: 'Share this thread'? From: Rog Peek Date: 08 Nov 09 - 07:09 AM Kevin Boyd - "Who else do they think is going to use it?" Any Tom, Dick or Harry that visits the site. As I said before, this function is available to members and non members alike. Good thing for music section, but IMO, bad thing for BS section. Rog |
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