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Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society

Bobert 07 Nov 09 - 09:53 AM
Acorn4 07 Nov 09 - 10:10 AM
Steve Hunt 07 Nov 09 - 10:14 AM
Wesley S 07 Nov 09 - 10:35 AM
Chanteyranger 07 Nov 09 - 10:39 AM
Bill D 07 Nov 09 - 01:01 PM
David C. Carter 07 Nov 09 - 01:11 PM
Green Man 07 Nov 09 - 01:40 PM
gnu 07 Nov 09 - 02:52 PM
Joe_F 07 Nov 09 - 05:51 PM
Ebbie 07 Nov 09 - 08:30 PM
dwditty 07 Nov 09 - 11:03 PM
Janie 07 Nov 09 - 11:06 PM
Art Thieme 07 Nov 09 - 11:51 PM
Lonesome EJ 07 Nov 09 - 11:54 PM
Art Thieme 08 Nov 09 - 12:10 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Nov 09 - 03:26 AM
Acorn4 08 Nov 09 - 04:10 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Nov 09 - 05:53 AM
Bobert 08 Nov 09 - 09:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Nov 09 - 10:18 AM
Bobert 08 Nov 09 - 11:14 AM
Stringsinger 08 Nov 09 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Nov 09 - 11:22 AM
Spleen Cringe 08 Nov 09 - 11:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Nov 09 - 11:36 AM
Acorn4 08 Nov 09 - 11:52 AM
Tim Leaning 08 Nov 09 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Nov 09 - 12:45 PM
M.Ted 08 Nov 09 - 12:59 PM
Tim Leaning 08 Nov 09 - 01:04 PM
Don Firth 08 Nov 09 - 02:05 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Nov 09 - 02:34 PM
kendall 08 Nov 09 - 02:57 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 09 - 04:28 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Nov 09 - 05:04 PM
kendall 08 Nov 09 - 05:23 PM
Amos 08 Nov 09 - 05:50 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 09 - 05:53 PM
Desert Dancer 08 Nov 09 - 08:52 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 09 - 09:14 PM
M.Ted 09 Nov 09 - 12:49 AM
matt milton 09 Nov 09 - 06:14 AM
Mavis Enderby 09 Nov 09 - 07:06 AM
Tim Leaning 09 Nov 09 - 07:13 AM
Mooh 09 Nov 09 - 07:52 AM
kendall 09 Nov 09 - 08:08 AM
Bobert 09 Nov 09 - 08:09 AM
Sean Mc 09 Nov 09 - 08:16 AM
Amos 09 Nov 09 - 09:43 AM
Bobert 09 Nov 09 - 03:51 PM
Amos 09 Nov 09 - 03:56 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 10 Nov 09 - 09:36 AM
Mavis Enderby 10 Nov 09 - 03:24 PM
Bobert 10 Nov 09 - 06:29 PM
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Subject: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:53 AM

Well, okay, just about anyone can be a mother... Right???... And they sho nuff be undervalued so this ain't one of them who-is-the-most-undervalued threads but...

...geeze...

I mean, lets get real here... Folks ask you what kinda music you play and you say "blues" and they say "Yeah, I like that bluegrass" and then you say, "No, I play the blues' and then they say "Yeah, I like that bluegrass"... Huh???

And unless yer at a blues festival where folks come to here, ahhhhh, the blues then at all the other festivals they stick the blues players at the worst times... Like me having to compete with Utah Phillips last year at the Getaway...

Yeah, blues players get no respect... And if they happen to be mothers then they get a double dose of no respect...

Grrrrrrrr....

Bobert (blues player)

p.s. BTW, if ya' wanta test gravity just start a blues thread here in Mudville and watch that sucker head south... Yup... Off the bottom of the page before you can refresh it... I mean, G.O.N.E., gone... What's that all about???


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Acorn4
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:10 AM

Even if they weren't "they cain't never be satisfied!"

Joking aside, I've always found that blues goes down very well in a lot of folk clubs having its cred value as Black American folk music - more so than country/western in fact which is often shunned because of its commercial associations - there are a number of festivals that advertise themselves as folk/blues festivals - Crawley is the one that springs to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:14 AM

I listen to a lot of Blues music, particularly the acoustic, Country Blues guys like John Hurt, Blind Blake, Rev Gary Davis, Son House, etc. I'm also a fan of what got termed British Folk/Blues - the folks who brought Blues repertoire and stylings into our folk clubs - Bert Jansch, Wizz Jones, Ralph McTell, etc. When I first started going to UK Folk Festivals there were a LOT more Blues artists and sessions around than there are now - the scene's got even more fragmented and I personally think that's a (cryin') shame. I just bought Michael Gray's 'Hand Me My Travellin' Shoes - In Search Of Blind Willie McTell' yesterday and recommend that as a great read to everyone here.

As for blues players who are also mothers... hmmm, Rory Block? Bonnie Raitt? Grainne Duffy? (I don't know for sure if any of these artists have kids, BTW!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Wesley S
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:35 AM

Well - I DO like that bluegrass.


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 10:39 AM

It's heartening, though, to see some of the blues legends finally get the respect from a wider audience that they deserve. I saw James Cotton and Hubert Sumlin perform together last week, a 1 and 1/2 hour-long set, no intermission, and they blew the house down for a large audience (San Francisco).

But....as you (Bobert) have experienced, that's not the norm for blues artists of "non-legend" stature performing in mixed music venues. A good number know of the revolution in banjo playing inspired by Earl Scruggs, or at least can name him and what instrument he plays, but the revolution in harmonica playing forged by Little Walter, or Hubert Sumlin's influence on rock guitarists doesn't seem to be burned into the consciousness of society outside of blues fans, and in Sumlin's case, a generation of rock and blues guitarists.

Yeah, everything becomes bluegrass: Irish fiddlers get requests to play "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" and old-timey musicians treated the same. It's an example of what music is burned into the concsciousness of a wider public, and what isn't.

Now, don't get me wrong, for whatever it's worth- I love bluegrass! - just using it to make a point.

Chanteyranger

Chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:01 PM

Wal, ya' know how it is....them blues fellers don't give full value! I mean, listen to the lyrics.... they repeat the same line 2-3 times, then make some remark about how THEY been cheated!

Now ballad singers will give you 40 detailed verses about how the nurse chopped up the baby! Man...value! Get with it, blues folks...tell the whole story....


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: David C. Carter
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:11 PM

Bobert, why don't you write a blues about this?

I'll give you the first line:

'I woke up this mornin'.....



David


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Green Man
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:40 PM

Back in the day, there used to be 'Folk and Blues' clubs.

There seemed to be a parting of the ways along the way, I can never understand why. I have found that blues goes down well at Folk clubs too. Sometimes anything goes down well depending on how well its performed.

I agree blues players are somewhat undervalued but then who do you sing the blues for?

GM


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: gnu
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 02:52 PM

Society, in general, is made up of a lot of people of average intelligence. On either end of the scale are those like Bobert and those like... well, you know. Unfortunately, while peeps like Bobert and most 'Catters are on the upper part of the curve do appreciate The Blues and other fine arts and sciences, those below the curve appreciate little, whether it be good tunes or art or science.

Therein lies the rub.

Whilst those on the upper end appreciate fine arts of all forms, they are not as vocal about same, whereas those on the lower end of the curve are rather vocal, to the point that such mindless drivel with a beat sells.

The simple fact that such mindless and talentless crap sells denotes how skewed the curve is.... the bell has a wide crack and talent often falls into it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Joe_F
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:51 PM

When I was in Britain in 1958-1959, I spent enough time in London to join an outfit called the Ballads & Blues Society, so I could go to its sings. I later found out that it was something to do with Ewan MacColl, but I didn't know him from Adam at the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 08:30 PM

Beaubear, blues may be undervalued but the bluesplayers are not.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: dwditty
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 11:03 PM

Here's the rub, Bobert. If blues players were indeed "valued," then they wouldn't be blue anymore. With all but a very few, commercial success has pretty much sucked the soul out of those that put enough in to get the recognition in the first place. When it comes to blues, if you win you lose (Now there's a hook, no?)

dw


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Janie
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 11:06 PM

Not by me.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 11:51 PM

Silly thread it seems to me to be this,

Art


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 11:54 PM

Interesting way of putting that you have, Art.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 12:10 AM

Just channelling Yoda.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 03:26 AM

It's all to do with authenicity. In the UK, we have legions of guys singing "de blues", and I can't be doing with it! Even in the States you have people like John Hammond ( white middle-class and rich ) trying to sound like a black share-cropper from 30s Mississippi. None of this raises the value of these guys at in my eyes.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Acorn4
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 04:10 AM

But couldn't you equally say we've got loads of people trying to sound like 19th Century farm labourers or factory workers - I don't really see the difference - performing is a form of acting surely and it just depends on how well you bring it off whatever the genre.

There can be good and bad folksingers as well as blues singers!


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 05:53 AM

My comments can also apply to English singers! Never liked Martin Carthy's "invented" voice. I'm not a particular fan of Kate Rusby, but she does sound more natural than a lot of the singers who emerged in the 50s/60s.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 09:29 AM

Well, geeze, tunes... That sounds a tad on the narrow minded side... There really isn't any form of art that doesn't have a basis in past... I mean, even visual artists are all part of an evolutionary process...

I don't try to sound like no black share cropper but I have had enough bumps and bruises in life to play the blues from the heart... I mean, anyone who came thru the 60's as an anti-war radical certainly has the credentials to play the blues... The fact that more white folks are into the blues these days does not, IMHO, negatively impact ones appreciation of this form of music, which BTW, has little to do with being "blue"...

B~


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 10:18 AM

No, Bobert. You ain't got an inferiority complex.

You are inferior :-P

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 11:14 AM

Wait jus' a dog-gone minute here, David... I never said I had no inferiority complex... Not that I got no superiority complex neither... Might of fact, I'm kinda complexless.. Now that is the "real blues"... I'm so down that I ain't even got no complex...

But back to the blues fir a minute... Lotta folks who ain't never heard of it or heard none of it really dig it when they hear it for tyhe first time... I get that all the time... I played last night to a room full of Southern rock hillbillies and they dug it purdy good... Then again, I don't do alot of slow blues in concert but more Mississippi hill country stuff with footstomp that you can't lose... Kinda get them hillbilly pant leg's a shakin' and them cowboy boots going up an' down... One hillbilly follered me out when I was leaving an' asked if I'd teach him up some blues... He's a banjo player (of course... lol...) and I told him I'd be more than willin' to help him taake the grass outta the blues... lol...

Now back to the discussion o' why we, ahhhh, is not inferior but not exactly respecterated neither...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 11:19 AM

The "blues" is a wide tent. I like it when Bessie Smith, Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Morton and Charlie Parker "sing" the blues. I also like Maxwell Street Sunday Morning 1957.
Son House, Lightning, BB, Freddie King, John Lee for sure.

I don't see these guys being undervalued because they have their died-in-the-wool fans.

BB is a great international ambassador for the US as was Satchmo.

To understand the blues, ya' gotta' like black music which I love.

Ya' gotta' love New Orleans. It's too much for my constitution but I love it anyhow.
But like Louis, I'm not sure if I care to go there any more. Maybe Katrina might have
cleaned out some of the awful prejudice that occurred there in later years though she was a harsh mistress. And damn Bush and McCain for ignoring her.

New Orleans was the mother of the blues and her children spread from there to K.C, Mobile, Natchez, etc.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 11:22 AM

My criticism is all about sounding "real". When I hear Son House, I feel that I'm hearing the real thing, but when I hear John Hammond I feel that I'm listening to an impersonation. It's like those "tribute" bands. They might sound terrific, but they are not the real deal!


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 11:26 AM

Yeah, Bobert!

I love some of that old country blues but I dunno a great deal about it.

Love listening to Barbecue Bob, Charlie Patton, Blind Lemon Jefferson and so on. I'm surprised, especially given it's a US site, there aren't more blues threads or more threads giving links to great blues on Youtube etc. I'd certainly appreciate the chance to read, listen and learn...

Bring it on!


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 11:36 AM

Did you know that the blues was invented by Blind Willie Higginthorpe - A Lancashire collier who usd to play the overstrung A-flat minor coal truck? Because he was blind he could never get the coal dust off and when people saw him they used to refer to 'that ol' black man' down't Rat and Whippet pub. Word got around, people came from all over the world to see him. The rest is history...

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Acorn4
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 11:52 AM

...and how come Blind Lemon Jefferson wore glasses?


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 12:37 PM

I like to hear guitar based acoustic blues.
Some white middle aged blokes do a good job of it.
As to the authenticity or otherwise why would that be any different to none railway men singing songs about railways and townies singing folk songs about the country side?
I don't think many of us would enjoy real, modern life stories in whatever musical form they were told.
Mostly people only seem to be interested in their own lives and the things that affect them.
Love the blues,love folk,love country,love most stuff just not so loud please.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 12:45 PM

The authenicity comes with the delivery. A singer from Texas is quite welcome to sing a coal mining song from the north-east of England but not, I hope, in a Geordie accent!


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 12:59 PM

Bobert: There's lots of places where bluegrass will clear the room faster than the Swine Flu. Back when I was in Philly, if you had a banjo, you'd better be a Mummer, and there were restaurants that had "Blues Brunch" every Saturday and Sunday--if they don't like your music where you are, you'd better step it up and go--


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 01:04 PM

Whats wrong with Geordie accents then?
I thought that the rules of folk decree and authentic vocal rendering.
LOl


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 02:05 PM

Just a couple of casual observations from an artsy-fartsy ballad singer who would probably take a shot at doing blues, but who's really lousy at it:

I've heard Lightnin' Hopkins, Mississippi John Hurt, and Mance Lipscomb in person at Berkeley Folk Music Festivals in the early 1960s, and an old friend of mine was Alice Stuart, who got her start singing in coffeehouses in Seattle doing Joan Baez-type stuff, then met Mississippi John Hurt at the 1964 Berkeley Fest, went nuts, and spend a lot of time sitting with him knee to knee, guitars in hand. Alice had found her niche. And over the years, through ups and downs, she earned the right.

I've always had a slightly amused, but jaundiced view of the well-to-do college kid who spent his weekends in some coffeehouse or other singing blues. Reminds me of the time Jesse Fuller commented, "I have to laugh at these college kids singin' about bein' a steel-drivin' man. 'Cause I have drove some!"

But I never got the impression that blues players are undervalued by society in general.

One of my favorite lines from the blues came from B. B. King:
Nobody but my mama ever loved me,
But she could be jivin' me too!
Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 02:34 PM

Tim: So you fancy hearing someone from Texas singing a north-east England coal-mining song in a Geordie accent(or his attempt, at it)? Well, I'd prefer him to sing it in his own accent. Similarly, if I heard Jez Lowe sing a blues I wouldn't want him to do it in a mock American accent!


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 02:57 PM

Blues just aint my bag, man. However, I do like Bobert; does that count for anything?


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 04:28 PM

Well, gol danged... Take shanty songs about old masted ships going down... Wonder how many Catters were onboard those ships to sing about them??? I mean, let's get real... Most people wyho do fiolk music are telling stories one way or another... What, do we now have some kinda race thing going where white people can't tell stories that were first told by predominently black folks??? That would be really wierd, IMO...

Come on, ya'll... It's folk music, ain't it???

(Well, Boberdz... White folks ain't sposed to do no black music...lol)...

Geeze, here's the funny thing... No, not funny at all... But back in the 20s and 30s when alot of the early blues was 1st recorded it is common knowledge that most black blues performers also did all the popular white music of the day... It was only when they recorded that they were asked (commanded) to just do that "race" stuff... Source: (Alija White, "Escaping the Delta")...

B~


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 05:04 PM

The point is that when Muddy Waters sang country songs ( and we know he did), did he try to sound like Gene Autry? I think not!


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 05:23 PM

In my book anyone can sing anything that pleases them. So, if a hillbilly wants to sing the blues he damn well can!

I find a bit of humor in girls singing sea chantys, and women doing Morris dancing, but it's no different from landlubbers who have never been near a ship singing "Friggin' in the riggin'.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 05:50 PM

I've split rails, although I haven't driven steel rails, and I have run ships at sea. But I also sing songs about lots of things I have never done, such as busting broncs, fighting pirates, stabbing whales with harpoons, robbing jewelry stores, shooting sheriffs, and sneaking into married ladies' boudoirs while their husbands were on travel.   Leastwise not that I am admitting to recall.

Raising such songs up is a fine art especially when you are not singing from personal experience. It requires compassion, and an absence of pretense, and an understanding of the situation that gave birth to the song. If you have that balance, you can take any song in human history and do it well, and the benefit of that is that it keeps human memory alive and history vivid. That is a virtuous thing to do in a world that is helter-skelter bound to be oblivious about its own past lessons.


A


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 05:53 PM

I can't think of too many white blues players that try to sound like blacl folks either... Yeah, to do the blues ya' kinda gotta get into a bluesy sound... How about Johnny Paycheck doin' country... He ain't rying to sound like no white guy... He's just singin' country music... I think it would be very ineteresting if the recording companies had recorded the blues greats doing the pop songs of the day... Ya' gotta remember that lotta black performers performed for white audiences, too, in the 20s and 30s... I doubt very much if they were trying to sound white... Just doing the stuff the way it was heard on the radio... Big deal...

So is this what it comes down to??? Some kinda inverse racist thing with white folks trying to sound black??? Huh??? That would be offensive if that's all that white blues players were trying to do... As fir myself, yeah, I gotta some black influence in my speech patterns... I also have alot of good ol' fashioned redneck hillbilly... And maybe a little college eductaed , too... Ain't that what makes folks interestin'??? I mean, I love speech... White folks have copped alot of black stuff and I reckon it goes both ways... I mean, language is evolutionary, ain't it... What, we gonna just say that all white folk gotta talk this way and all balck folk gotta talk that away... I mean, if shanty singers gotta throw in a bad English or Irish accent then exactly where is the harm if white folks are influenced by black folk???

Jus' askin'...

Still don't expalin why Pinetop Perkins don't get played on the radio except for small internet stations that do blues... Or Honeyboy Edwards... Shoot, Buddy Guy don't get no air hisself...

B~


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 08:52 PM

Well, heck, if you're going to complain about lack of radio airplay, there's plenty of other folk genres that can complain about that as well. There's nothing special being denied blues on that front!

I'm encouraged that things go in cycles. It might be a low point for blues at the moment, but they're not going away, I'm sure. (Check into the "last generation" thread for more on that topic.)

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 09:14 PM

Good point, Becky... Lotta folkies gettin' the raw deal here... Blues players, of course, gettin' the rawist of the raw 'cause other folkies look down at us... Sho nuff do... I been to too many open jams to know that if yer gonna play blues then the other folkies is gonna conspire up against ya'... Heck, I used to go to this jam in Round Hill, Va. 'cause the organizer asked me to come... I'd find an obscure little corner of the p0arkin' lot out back and take me a couple youngin's back there with me... Now I weren't tryin' to be disrespectfull ya' see but after about 15 minutes the bluegrassers would find us and turn what we was tryin' to do into "their" thing and next thing ya' know they had completely highjacked our little corner of the parking lot... This inspite of the fact ther were at least 2 other bluegrass jams goin on elsewhere...

That is a ture story... I went 3 times to this jam and same thing every time... The 4th time I got a call from the organizer I told him what had happened and he defended the bluegrassers??? So I told him that I woouldn't be comin' to no more of his jams, thank you...

But it's the same at most folk gatherings... Them bluegrassers just get it in their mind that that's what they are gonna do and they do it, and do it and do it and...

That includes the old timers, too, BTW...

B~


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 12:49 AM

It's not a low point for blues--don't believe me? Google "Blues Festivals" , or "Blues Societies"--Bobert just likes telling that "Bluegrass terror in the parking lot" story, and it has whiskers on it--


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: matt milton
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 06:14 AM

yes indeed - there's a crazy amount of blues festivals in Europe. They seem to be a bit under the radar if you're not already aware of them. But once you are, it's really quite extraordinary.

And they seem to be actually very well funded and organized.

There's also been a bit of an explosion in blues clubs in London recently. The last two years have seen the opening of quite a few dedicated blues bars.

Have a look at:

bluesinlondon.com

A really good site - some nice reviews and interviews on there.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 07:06 AM

In the interests of fairness to Bobert's blues/bluegrass jam experience, I've seen a (mainly) Irish session taken over by blues/jazz players too. I play a lot of blues myself but didn't like the way this happened.


Personally I don't have an issue with 'authenticity' regarding whether white people can play the blues - but I'd rather hear their own interpretation of what they are playing rather than trying to slavishly imitate someone else - both in terms of playing or singing. That goes for pretty much any genre too in my opinion.

Pete.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 07:13 AM

Its all music and if it aint too loud I love it.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Mooh
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 07:52 AM

Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society? Maybe, sometimes society sucks.

There used to be a local jam that included mostly acoustic players and playing that was characterized by a wide variety of styles from blues to bluegrass to celtic to singer/songwriter folk to old time to rock to all their various permutations. Some pretty good players came out and shared the tunes and songs. It was fun and inclusive for most.

However there were 2 players that stood out. One was a died in the wool celtoid who despised the blues and the bluesmen, the other was a red blooded bluesman who hated the diddly-diddly and its practitioners. Neither made any explanation or apology, both were quite sour that they were expected to endure one to play the other, and both tried to force their agenda passive-aggressively. At first it was amusing, but it got old fast.

Three things were apparent, the bluesguy couldn't play a zillion memorized melodies in any style, the celtoid couldn't improvise in any style, and neither had the slightest inclination to learn each other's scales/styles/methods. Each thought the other and their music stupid...at least that's what they told me.

"Stupid" was stupid.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: kendall
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 08:08 AM

Everyone needs a dog to kick.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 08:09 AM

Well, that ain't the case here, Mooh... I lived in Richmond, Va. fir 20 years so I certainly know my way around old time and bluegrass jams... And I went thru the 70's with everyone else playin' New Riders, Byrds and Poco stuff... Heck, at the Getaway I got in a 3 hour jam of that stuff and held my own...

Just not there anymore...

B~


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Sean Mc
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 08:16 AM

Ah Bobert, I know the feeling. I have been in many a session & had to leave holding my own - lest it fell on the floor with my pride.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 09:43 AM

Mr Bobert, now, you spend too much time holding your own....



A


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 03:51 PM

I'm sure that's sposed to be clever, Amos, but frankly, I don't get it... Oh well, I don't get TV or womenz either...


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 03:56 PM

Oh, Mister Boertz....sigh...held your own what??



A


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 09:36 AM

No, blues players aren't undervalued by society. When you consider how little they contribute to the overall quality of life, it's a miracle they're thought to have any value at all.

You see, blues players play music that makes you want to kill yourself. The underlying message of all blues songs is, "Life sucks. Yer woman's gonna do ya wrong, yer dog's gonna bite ya, and yer gonna git an infection that's gonna make yer dick fall off. Gettin' hold of a bottle of rot-gut whiskey an' drinkin' yerself to death is the only way to solve yer problems. Do it. Just be sure to tell yer best friend that ya wanna be buried in some cypress grove and that he should see that yer grave is kept clean. But it won't do no good 'cause that same best friend's been bangin' yer woman for three years now, an' he'll be glad to see ya gone. Why should he give a shit about how clean yer grave is?"

Of course, blues music is not the only genre capable of making listeners want to commit suicide. Rap music has the same effect. The difference is that blues achieves this goal through song content while rap does so through total lack of song content. Blues makes you want to die because life sucks. Rap makes you want to die because rap sucks.


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 03:24 PM

makes you want to kill yourself

Well, this always cheers me up: Give me back my wig

lack of content - dont beleive the hype


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Subject: RE: Are Blues Players Undervalued by Society
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 06:29 PM

Yeah, Hound Dog sho nuff put a smile on yer face... I love that song... Heck, I love that entire sound... Real raw...

B~


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