Tech: Browser comparisons - DoH & security

Subject: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 05:14 PM

A newsletter from PC Advisor, a UK based magazine, links a recent article about a report by Censic on vulnerabilities in browsers. Censic is a "security systems" provider specializing mostly in enterprise/corporate system security.

The article, which may be of some interest to some of us, is at Firefox accounts for half of all browser bugs

The "headline" is obviously intended to startle people into reading; but information in the article is of some interest.

[quotes]

November 10, 2009

Firefox accounts for half of all browser bugs
Report says Firefox is more vulnerable than IE

Gregg Keizer

Firefox accounted for almost half of all browser vulnerabilities in the first six months of 2009, according to Cenzic.
The web security company claims Mozilla's browser had the largest percentage of web vulnerabilities over the six-month span, while Apple's Safari had the dubious distinction of coming in second. Microsoft's Internet Explorer (IE) was third, while Opera Software's flagship browser took fourth place.

... ...

Firefox accounted for 44% of all browser bugs reported in the first half of the year, said Ewe, while Safari vulnerabilities came to 35% of the total. IE, meanwhile, accounted for 15%, while 6% of all the flaws were in Opera.

... ...

Data from web metrics company Net Applications puts IE as the most-used browser, with about 65% of the market, followed by Firefox with 24%, Safari with 4.4%, Google's Chrome with 3.6% and Opera with 2.2%.

[end quotes]

It's unfortunate that the Censic survey didn't assess how critical the vulnerabilities were; and a Censic spokesman offered the opinion that the results don't mean anyone needs to change browsers because of it. (The Censic spokesman says he uses Firefox and doesn't intend to change.)

The important point is that all browsers (and Operating Systems) are vulnerable and it is necessary - regardless of which you choose to use - to keep your browser up to date as its vulnerabilities are closed, and to have good AV and other protections in place while you practice "safe surfing."

The full Censic report can be downloaded (pdf) at AppSecTrends_Q1-Q2-2009, but probably won't be too interesting except to those with real technical concerns. The PC Advisor article (link at top) will be of more general inteest.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 05:26 PM

I love Firefox. Granted, I'm not a techie or even a surfaholic, but I love Firefox. Wanna buy it dinner and maybe even propose. (It's the most action I'm gonna see!)

If I can't remember the whole name of a thread or ANY web page I've been to and don't want to type it into a search engine, I can put part of the name in the address window, and Firefox pops up a list of pages with that word in the title. I can have a gazillion windows open at the same time. I can download videos from YouTube and probably most other places.

I also have a couple firewalls, a couple anti-spyware programs and an anti-virus program, and they all update automatically except the anti-spyware programs. Best way to go for me, because malware is all over and it's always being tweaked if it's not simply new, and I have no ability to remember when I last updated.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 09:37 PM

I've used Opera for years, since I first had trouble with an I.E. update, but I also have Firefox and I.E. on board. Just in case.

The only complaint that I have with Opera is that they have just included a spell-checker with the usual 'underline' warning, and it doesn't know anywhere near as many words as I do.
I believe Opera is Scandiwegian in origin, perhaps that's why.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 10:08 PM

I use Firefox exclusively. Perhaps, at least according to that article, it is buggy but I have never had a virus. It has (as a free add-on) a very effective ad blocker (I don't even see the ones Max lets on Mudcat) and a single-button instant-on IE emulator for the occasional wierd site that is IE-specific.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: David E
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 10:09 PM

I use Firefox because the browser, visually, is less cluttered than what I used previously, though it seems to take longer to load. Probably me. But what I really want to know, as mentioned above, how can I download videos from You Tube?

David E.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: bobad
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 10:42 PM

Check this out: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3006

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 10:54 PM

I don't know about vulnerabilities, but it sure seems to me that Google Chrome is by far the fastest browser I've seen. It has a number of features that I like very much.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 11:09 PM

well...as those who have seen my posts for years might guess, I 'have' almost all of the browsers.

To me, security is 98% what firewalls & Anti-virus..plus anti-malware programs one has. (and of course, avoiding bad web sites)

I use Opera (in 3 different versions) maybe 70% of the time, and Firefox 28%. I am also watching the development of Google Chrome (not impressed so far) and SeaMonkey...which is Firefox on steroids with email and newsgroups and RSS feeds all built in. SeaMonkey will use all the Firefox add-ons. (and I have two other odd little browsers which are small & fast- K-Meleon & "Off-by-One". They do most stuff ok, I just forget to look at them.)

Now.... Firefox is the one I keep set to do YouTube, my bank, my HMO...etc....and Mudcat, if I happen to want to look when I have Firefox open. The thing is, so many sites want to use javascripts and pop-ups..etc, that I keep Opera set to refuse such things and refuse ads. It's easier to open Firefox than to make Opera 'open' to them all.

Like Jeri, I have all the AV & firewalls up to date, and have only had maybe 2 virus warnings in several years. Also like Jeri, I do love Firefox for its flexibility in what you can train it to do, but I MUCH prefer Opera for the particular sorts of internal navigation I do (forward, back, switch between tabs, move between clickable links on a page, and a couple other things .. are all done with keys 1,2,Q,W,A,Z right by my left hand. I can also hide ANY of my toolbars in Opera with one click by a special javascript addition.
That being said, if Firefox added those tricks, I'd be 95% in Firefox.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: David E
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 12:33 AM

To "bobad"...Thank you so much! Easy to download and easy to use! This is gonna be great fun...

David E.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 01:01 AM

I use this add-on as one of my lines of defense against bad things while using Firefox...

Web of Trust

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 01:18 PM

This is an extremely old thread but the subject is germane to my reason for posting this afternoon. The earlier part of the thread might be a nice review for folks who remember the Mudcatters posting, or who remember using these applications. (This is the other thread I thought about opening for a trip down memory lane.)

I'm posting a tip from ZD Net about a Chrome browser extension that people might be interested in. The browser can bog down if you have tons of tabs open at once (I do that.) I tend to use Chrome most often, so I'll be trying it: If you use Google Chrome, you need to install this now.

In particular:

Discarding a tab isn't the same as closing it because you can click on the inactive "discarded" tab and bring it back to life -- complete with your scroll position and any text entered into forms or boxes.

Discarded tabs can be bought back to life even after closing and re-opening the browser.

The extension also has options for pinned tabs, when a tab is playing media, and when a web page contains a form.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 07:20 PM

Firefox is my default browser, but when Blogger "upgraded" last year My Personal Help Desk suggested Chrome & that works beautifully for the blog, as beautifully as the upgraded program can work.

I also use Chrome on occasion for other stuff - when I was trying to buy something on-line from a major retailer & having lotsa' trouble (turned out to be a problem with their server), the new updated sign-on for my account with my local council Library, & my neighbour uses Chrome when she visits to print stuff as Firefox apparently only allows one person to log-in to the Federal Govt's MyGov site where we (both) access government services.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 22 - 02:13 PM

For those who are leery of Google and its Chrome browser, here's another competitor. (Bill D has talked about a lot of other browsers over the years - I wonder if he has seen this one?)

Google Chrome rival Brave reports another big jump in users
Privacy-focused browser company says users want the tools to be independent from Big Tech.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: DaveRo
Date: 06 Jan 22 - 03:31 PM

Brave is certainly worth considering. It was established by Brendan Eich, inventor of Javascript (over a weekend IIRC), long-term CTO and briefly CEO of Mozilla (before being ousted for his personal views - an astonishing situation when viewed from the rest of the world).

Which emphasises, IMO, that you should take into account (prioritise even) the ownership and business objectives of software developers, not just if you like the look of their products.

Meanwhile, a story today is that Google has rejected the advice of Apple and Mozilla, and loosened security in Chrome to accommodate Microsoft:
Google Chrome 97 relaxes privacy protection just a little to help out Microsoft

Edge (and Brave) is now based on Chrome, software controlled by Google. And their priority is? That's right, advertising. Privacy? Not so much.

Mozilla, the only other browser builder, is in a difficult place, being dependent for their operational costs, on the deal with Google to use their search engine by default. (You can change it, though). Mozilla is, of course, a non-profit organisation.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 11:15 AM

I've noted Brave, but not installed it. I still have 5-6 browsers.. with Firefox and Vivaldi (a chrome based one) as my usual ones. I used PaleMoon for several years, but had some issues with it after my big crash a several months ago.

(I'm posting this in Vivaldi right now... I'll go see if that extension will work)

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 11:22 AM

Okay! It is installed. I'll see how it functions, as I tend to used tabs rather than bookmarks to remind me of current interests.
   The idea of having older tabs available, but not hogging space is appealing.

I really have never cared for the GUI of the regular Chrome.... and I really resent some programs having already checked options to "install Chrome and make it my default browser". I am perfectly capable of changing defaults as MY choice.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 11:28 AM

Most browsers now have the option to 'pin' tabs to keep them from being closed and make them always available in one area of the address bar. The others are the ones I hope are put to sleep...

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 11:35 AM

Wow... a LOT of options to analyze for different usage patterns. Will take experimenting.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 11:37 AM

"(a chrome based one)"

Chrome is Google's own browser.

It and other browsers are based on Chromium

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 12:09 PM

Of course that's right, a technical point, but good to keep the formal, legal terminology straight.

But because they both have the same base, the extension works for me.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 12:15 PM

Have either of you used the "Task View" button on the bottom corner (next to the Windows Window) on Windows computers? It lets you take a quick look at what all you have open at any given time, plus some favorites. (I use two 27" monitors so end up with a lot of stuff open during the course of a day.) (This in Win 10 - I haven't upgraded to 11.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 02:46 PM

Umm.. I have no idea where a 'task view' button is. (I'm still in Win7)

I do have my task bar & browsers address bars at the top. It just 'feels' right...(even though some programs have hard coded defaults to open in the upper left corner.)
I just managed to activate a 'task manager' in Vivaldi by rt. clicking on the address bar and selecting it, it doesn't show much of interest. There are "sub-frames" listed, and several open tabs... perhaps this new extension is hiding some?

Modern browsers and operating systems have so many options and alternate ways of doing things that even a "menu freak" like me, doesn't
find them all. I can tile my open tabs in several ways, but I almost never do, as tabs serve the purpose... and scrolling thru tabs suits me.

YMNDD (Your mileage no doubt differs)

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 02:52 PM

I think it's a newer feature, Bill.

I use Malwarebytes and AdAware and a number of other safety ad-ons, and recently downloaded UBlock Origin that I've started testing. This morning it blocked a popup page from an email sent by a trusted source, so I let the page open. It had to do with a particular type of html command it didn't like.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 03:04 PM

HTML is just a layout language. It doesn't have any "Commands"

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 03:18 PM

Quibble. And incorrect. HTML Commands. On the popup page was some kind of command that, when presented in the reason the page was blocked, looked like html or java, etc. A short snippet of unreadable code.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 03:25 PM

Silk Browser is a 100% free Amazon-proprietary mobile application for Android and Kindle Fire devices that use split- browser architecture to increase loading speeds. It operates on its cloud system and uses machine-learning algorithms to ensure a smooth experience.

https://bridefeed.com/magazine/is-the-silk-browser-secure/

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 05:57 PM

"Newer Feature" tends to mean IF you're keeping up with the latest, and I don't particularly think that everything in the 'latest', is as user-friendly as I care for.

   When I had my big disc failure recently, I had a friend who knew all the tricks to copy my data from a failed disc and replace it.. and re-install Win7..including updating the BIOS!

I'm now in 'reinstall everything I want' mode... (mostly done what's needed.) I have 2 working desktop WIN7 PCs and one laptop.. but only this one is configured like *I* want... the others are emergency use toys that my wife had set up in her own way and with her settings.

I have several protection and monitoring programs and I don't do stupid stuff... I think I have gone for 8-10 years without seeing any notice of viruses being countered... and I am 123.796% careful of dangerous emails and popups...etc...

(my son got me an iPhone several months ago, and IT just demanded I enter my passcode for the first time in a couple of months... and that's the one thing I hadn't written in a safe place.. and it took me 2 hours to jump thru their hoops before I learned what to do.. and finally remembered the numbers..

Damn the hackers that make all these precautions necessary!

Being up to date with newer features just ain't worth it!

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 07:47 AM

"Have either of you used the "Task View" button on the bottom corner (next to the Windows Window) on Windows computers?"

Hmm, a bit off topic but... I think I might have with Win 11 and using 2 Desktops but I’m not sure. I haven’t looked at Windows in a few weeks. I booted my desktop into Linux when I upgrading other machines on the LAN and haven’t been back.

I may yet find an advantage in being able to use all the software I might want on the one (Windows) platform but, in terms of my daily use of a desktop and my needs, Windows (10 or 11) doesn’t leave me feeling I’ve had a better “user experience” than I have with Plasma 5 on Linux.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 08:42 AM

Don't see any mentions about "Duck Duck Go". Any thoughts?

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 09:20 AM

This was published by TechRepublic a few days ago

Online privacy: DuckDuckGo just finished a banner year and looks for an even better 2022

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 10:06 AM

Thanks for the link, Dave. I gave Google the elbow some time ago. Very impressed with DDG. More recently, I installed their free extension: "Privacy Essentials". DDG have a poster advertising campaign on the London Underground...pleasantly surprised to see that.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 10:12 AM

...and in the same article is a link to this opinion about browsers

Short answer is that he asserts that Firefox is now the most reliable one around, with explanations as to why.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 11:17 AM

Bill, as my French friends might say: "Chaque-un a son gôut".

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 11:33 AM

I've dabbled with Duck Duck Go (pardon that pun!) and I don't remember why I didn't keep using it. I think it's installed but probably needs an update.

Garg, I hacked my Amazon Fire and installed Chrome and a few other programs but still find the Silk browser works best on those devices. In instances where there isn't a working app for something I want (typically an online periodical) I save an instance of the browser with that URL as a separate icon so I can get to the site directly. The same thing I tend to do on my phone (but using Chrome or Firefox on the phone.)

Jon, the question about using the task view isn't actually "off topic," it's pointing out another way to see everything you have been working on at once in a large thumbnail version, and I think there are some tools to be used there that I haven't explored. I mostly forget about it or hit it by accident when aiming for the browser link next to it.)

I have browsers set up for specific tasks; the Edge browser is set up for some contract work I do, and in that context, it opens with about 8 tabs so I can use the various social media and management software all at once. I made the mistake of letting it "sync" with the Beta version of Edge that I also use, and everything was turning up on both. But I use the Beta version for some personal stuff that works best in the IE/Microsoft environment, so I unsynched them and reset the tabs.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: pattyClink
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 11:35 AM

Thanks for the links, guys. I feel even better about Linux and Firefox, been using Duck for a long time.

And very heartened to hear that many people are turning to Duck. I get so much pushback from friends whenever I mention I don't want Google, Apple, Facebook, or Amazon doing surveillance on every aspect of my life, I've stopped even bringing it up. Glad to hear I am not alone.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 01:44 PM

I forget sometimes that many of the 'installations' people refer to now are for their **portable devices**. I recently got an iPhone because my old dumb phone won't work after early Feb., but I seldom browse the WWW on it. Because I am at home most of the time, my desktop PC is my weapon of choice.
   My son & his wife zip around everywhere on their phones, but there are so many added things to learn... not to mention accidental finger-slips that send me to iPhone purgatory... that I add new tricks very s-l-o-w-l-y.

ALL my suggestions refer to those antique PCs..

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 01:47 PM

My ex still has an old slider dumb phone, but will upgrade to a smart phone soon (when he has his T-Mobile minutes/dollars are drawn down). It will take a family effort to teach him how to use it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 08:50 PM

Dear SRS


Thank you.


My normal paranoia is greatly relived.
I am not strange!

I now know that someone else, keeps multiple systems AND on multiple machines AND some dedicated to sole purposes.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

When I finally get a cell phone it will "unlocked, open source, with prepaid sim."

Just for the "education and good of the group" ... (I lost my source) it would be nice to have Joe post the agragate data collected from each MC visitor. Behind "the green curtains" :
Country
ISP
Browser
Previous site visited
Name
Graph of peak usage, location, number on MC at time.

The ANALYTICS are fascinating.
"Go Daddy" that provides the platform crunches the stats.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 09:06 PM

Having an unlocked phone gives you a lot more choice and the ability to remove some of the "bloat" that comes with branded phones. An open source phone might be a lot more work to set up.

Amazon's original "Alexa" posts a lot of the analytics you mention. http://www.alexa.com/.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: vectis
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 10:43 PM

I use Brave as my default browser and Opera for downloading stuff because it has a VPN built in.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 04:53 AM

I am now back with Firefox, after a dalliance with Edge, which I found data hungry. Prior to that I was on Chrome, which I learned to hate soon after I installed it. Use Norton Safe Search as my engine of choice.
I have 3 PC's running, along with a Samsung tablet, and we each have a smart phone; Samsung of course, no dictatorial Apple appliances allowed in this house.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 03:41 PM

SRS

YES it was ALEXA! (bots and crawlers and transparency)

You brought back a flood of old tech memories.
Tools I have not used in over a decade.
I had forgotten ALEXA.
We will be retiring Alexa.com on May 1, 2022
Twenty-five years ago, we founded Alexa Internet. After two decades of helping you find, reach, and convert your digital audience, we’ve made the difficult decision to retire Alexa.com on May 1, 2022. Thank you for making us your go-to resource for content research, competitive analysis, keyword research, and so much more.

And       WEBCRAWLER
          DEJANEWS
          ARCHIE (found the DT alt/rec/music/folk through BBS and 150 baud modem)
          JUGHEAD
          VERONICA
          GOPHER
          DOGPILE
          METACRAWLER

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

The times they been a changing.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 09:56 PM

LYNX and GOPHER were early systems when I started graduate school in the mid-1990s. I loved Metacrawler, that was the one I used before Google came along.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 09:32 AM

And I remember the 'game' of Google whacking... trying to find two words that would get one..and ONLY one.. hit on Google. Pretty much impossible now.

I used something called "All the Web" and several others. There used to be statistical estimates of what % of the WWW each one could find.
The algorithms developed by Google's founders made them billionaires.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: pattyClink
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 09:35 AM

And now, you find there is something very wrong with searches, no matter which engines you use, they have been somehow crippled and it's much harder to get good results.   It's not just that the garbage hits rise to the top, it's that the 'good stuff' doesn't show up like it used to.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 11:36 AM

I use a scholar/librarian approach to Google and use the advanced search feature. I often times tell it what kind of results I want (you can designate .edu or .gov or .com or .org, etc.) You can also designate the rights - Creative Commons versus Copyright, etc. I do the same thing often with Image search.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 04:16 PM

SRS

Yes, "Scholar" is an outstanding tool to dig into original/prime sources.

Sincerely
Gargoyle

Let the masses feast upon the GOOGLE "Double Mac" .

Those that know, go to a five-star" down below.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 04:49 PM

I use Google Scholar regularly also (though I was actually referring to my approach, not their product in that last post). In particular, it helps one locate the university repositories where the authors posted their papers that would otherwise cost megabucks behind an EBSCO or other high dollar paywall. Thank goodness that Peter Suber and SPARC was able to rattle a few cages 20+ years ago so Open Access is finally happening now.

Google used to have a link at the bottom of the search page that you could follow to reach all of the experimental stuff. Now that experimental page is a whole bunch of products.

Google Books Ngram Viewer is fun for quote research, for example. How it works.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 04:54 PM

I'm often amazed at what comes up on a google search, especially when I'm looking up something very specific on my blog. I know it's there cos I typed that name or phrase, & I get all kinds of crap unrelated to what I want - is it paid content??? It's sometimes easier to skim thru the related articles in Draft.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 04:56 PM

ps. Firefox is my default, & I use Chrome to work on the blog, but search using both browsers.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 06:07 PM

Mr. SRS

For me the original standard was     C:<



I was a little "miffed" when the entire dirty throngs came surging in the doors.

It was all well in the end.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

cleaning the "office" I believe I have un-earthed the original 5-1/4 one sided DT floppy disks that Dick sent me. Send in 5 floppies with sase and he would return the entire DT.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 10:05 PM

FYI, it's MS, Garg.

Is that Control+C ? I'm not sure what that command is you're illustrating.

I have one of those 5 1/4 disks here somewhere as a souvenir of my first Eagle 8088, dual floppy computer. Those floppies were $50 for 10. (Used with Wordstar). I bought my first Netscape browser in the early 1990s.

This is down a rabbit hole. Now there are more browsers than you can shake a stick at.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: DaveRo
Date: 11 Jan 22 - 03:58 AM

Looked at sideways it could be an angry bull.
But I suspect it's a command prompt: C:>

(I have some 8" floppies somewhere.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jan 22 - 11:49 AM

Because I was sitting in the room with Dick G. and Susan when the idea of the DT was conceived, I had the 5¼" floppies and later, the small ones.
My wife was a programmer, and we had 5¼" floppies all over. I guess there are still a few in boxes. I even have a WIN 3.1 PC that will take both sizes, and a card reader that will take 3" ones, so theoretically I could manage to move 5¼" data to current PCs. All I need is a serial mouse for the old WIN 3.1... and I know who had some.
   It might be interesting to do..once... but I doubt I'll bother.

(Even have 2 Syquest drives and a Nikon scanner for the 3.1)
Ain't nostalgia...umm.. cluttering?

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons - DoH & security
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Mar 25 - 06:19 PM

Today I was reading a ZDNet.com article The Firefox I loved is gone - how to protect your privacy on it now about a recent update to Firefox that removed wording about personal data in the Mozilla privacy policy.

For decades, one of Firefox's biggest selling points was that it gave you more privacy than Chrome or Edge. Under this new policy, though, Mozilla claimed: "When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox."

That's gone over like a lead brick. People believe that Mozilla has granted itself a royalty-free right to anything you type in Firefox. Your data could then be used for advertisers or to train an AI Large Language Model (LLM).

In the bottom of the article is the section "So, what can you do in response?" and one answer is to "Lock down your internet with DNS-over-HTTPS." This isn't something I've considered doing before, so I'm looking around for more information about it. And that brought me to discussion of other browsers that I've never tried.

Other articles I've looked at include Here's how to enable DoH in each browser, ISPs be damned
DoH support is already present in all major browsers. Users just have to enable it and configure it.

The best secure browsers for privacy: Expert tested
If you are looking for a secure browser, you must focus on privacy. The best options include ad blockers, private searches, and more.

These browsers include Brave, DuckDuckGo, Tor, Mullvad, and Firefox is on the list. Some of these browsers strike me as very intense, more work than one who does general homeowner kinds of stuff needs.

Thoughts? And is there a benefit to setting up DoH in each browser? What are the downsides? Have you tried any of those other browsers?

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons - DoH & security
From: DaveRo
Date: 05 Mar 25 - 02:45 AM

That Terms of Use announcement was a gaffe. Mozilla had to issue a 'clarification'. But the damage was done.

But just yesterday:
Firefox 136 finally brings the features that fans wanted

After the announcement of Mozilla's new terms of use, we suspect many disappointed users will look elsewhere, but we feel Firefox – or one of its derivatives – remains the best browser option. As The Register warned last month, this week's new version of Google Chrome disables uBlock Origin. In time, this change will likely make its way downstream to other Chromium-based browsers. One of those is Microsoft Edge, which has started switching off uBlock Origin and other Manifest V2-based extensions. Brave is another Chromium browser but has its own ad blocking built-in.

One remaining option for Chrome users is the less-capable uBlock Origin Lite.

The unrestricted uBlock Origin still works fine in Firefox, as well as its various downstream browsers such as LibreWolf – version 136 of which will no doubt appear soon. As before, Waterfox remains based on the ESR edition of Firefox – currently, that means Firefox 128.

The absolute worst browser for privacy is Chrome. But that's what most people use. It's the default on Android and most people stick with the default. I don't think most users are bothered about privacy, at least not to the extent of doing anything about it. And browsers are less important on mobile as the big sites move everything into an app and smaller sites use Facebook.

I've not configured DoH; I suppose I ought to.

Subject: RE: Tech: Browser comparisons - DoH & security
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 25 - 10:04 PM

A fellow Mudcatter (Bill D) always has interesting files and programs to try, and one he recommended this week is the SRWare Iron browser. Has anyone else used it? What do you like about it?