Film: The Wicker Man

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 11:54 AM

Is Britt Ekland going?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Gallovidian
Date: 07 Jul 19 - 05:39 AM

Sorry about that- shaky fingers after Saturday night?

Local info is that a WEE WICKERMAN FESTIVAL is scheduled for 23/24 August, with a showing of the director's cut on 23rd and a live music, ( folk, rock, grunge !!) & village-brewed beer- outside if weather allows.

It's in Isle of Whithorn (a fishing village, not an island)- long way from anywhere, but sounds interesting, with repeat burning of the WM at Burrow Head, site of the event in the film...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 10:48 AM

Blandiver .. do you think the wonderful brick buildings (and hall) seen in the wedding reception and "dream" sequence in the Cook's Tale might be buildings within the Cathedral precinct at Wells (from your personal knowledge of it)? It looks wonderful by the way and I am looking forward to visiting it, having booked a night at the George in Norton St Philip en route.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 06:44 AM

That's great thanks!
I am heading down to CentreParcs in Wilts over New Year so will drive over and visit Wells when I am down there. I have always wanted to see it anyway so this is a bonus!
Thanks again.
Steve

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Blandiver / Sedayne
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 06:28 AM

The street is in Wells too - the very famous Vicar's Close which adjoins the cathedral in fine old style:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicars%27_Close,_Wells

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 04:37 AM

Thanks Blandiver Sedayne
I wonder if anyone has any idea where the wonderful brick and half-timbered buildings used in the Cook's Tale (Chaplinesque) for the "wedding-dance" might be? Stunning.
Thanks for clarifying which cathedral is which.
Any idea which cathedral was used for the interiors for the Wife of Bath's wedding to Jankin?
Just to clarify a couple of points in the last post:
Alison's house is at Norton St Philip not Bradford on Avon
The topiary garden where Pluto and Persephone appear is Packwood House near Warwick.
The church in the Pardoner's Tale is Fairfield Church at Romney Marsh.
The other queries I had were:-
1) Where is the ruined windmill where the widow gives her broker to the Devil? Perhaps somewhere Cambs way?
2) Nicholas and Martin wander down some lanes that look a bit like Oxford but I think might have been Cambridge? Any ideas?
3) How about the street of what look like alms-houses where January first sees May?
All the best
Steve

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Blandiver / Sedayne
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 06:21 AM

Thanks for that, Steve! Excellent. That's a few future holiday destinations sorted.

I can only add that the grilling / execution scene took place in the cloisters of Canterbury Cathedral (with which I'm only familiar through pictures alone; hopefully soon...) and the dance scene in The Miller's Tale was filmed in The Chapter House at Wells Cathedral, which you reach via the stone steps. An amazing space - I was in there back in the summer photographing a few of THESE fellows imagining them looking down upon the merryment with certain approval...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Steve Mann
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 11:10 AM

Great to see someone mentioning Pasolini's Canterbury Tales again. I thought the folk song selections simply magical and astonishing when I first saw it in 1987. I had images of PPP and Morricone going round doing a Cecil Sharp-job with a tape recorder and some pidgin English. In fact - as I recently found out - all the music is lifted from the "Folk Songs of England" selection of 10 discs. I have managed to pick up about 9 of those now from ebay and they really are great. I always loved PPP's selection of music in his Italian B/W movies from the 60's too. I have been trying to work out the locations from that film too so if anyone has any tips please let me know. On my last visit to the South of England we visited Hastings Battle Abbey (the Merchant's Great Hall in the movie), Southwark (where the Perkin Reveller scenes were filmed by the Clink), Chipping Campden in Gloucs (the Pardoners' Tale rat-poison market in the old market place), St Osyth Priory Essex (the Merchant's Hall and Garden), Layer Marney Tower in Essex (stocks scene) and the medieval tithe barn just outside Colchester which they used for the Tabard Inn. Good fun visiting these wonderful sites. I have identified some of the other ones for a future trip: the "old Man" scene in the Pardoners Tale in what looks like a marsh is the famous church in Romney Marsh (as seen in the BBC's "Great Expectations" last Christmas); the house of Alison's husband the carpenter is an old pub called the George in Bradford-on-Avon or thereabouts (used in lots of movies - eg Joseph Andrews and Tom Jones); the topiary gardens in the Merchant's Tale are at some stately home near Warwick ; the other "Inn" scene looks like the tithe barn at Glastonbury and the scenes with Tom Baker showing his all are at Lavenham in Suffolk. Apparently some scenes were shot at Wells and some at Canterbury but I am not sure what - perhaps the burning of the moustacheiode (how do you spell that) gay punter caught in bed with that actor off Vera Drake/ the Bill/ WofBath's wedding. Sorry to drone on a bit - but if anyone else has any interesting info about the locations please let me know at [e-mail]
Oh yes - I think the windmill of "Trumpington" was Rolvenden in Kent!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Michael J
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 11:59 AM

"Ritual" by David Pinner (mentioned earlier in the thread - the book that The Wicker Man is based on) was reprinted last year by Finders Keepers Records if anyone is interested.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 12:25 PM

Do you know they missed a great opportunity in the Wicker Man, instead of incinerating all those animals, they should have gone for a couple of hundred politicians and several thousand Bankers, that would have made a lovely blaze and a much happier ending to the film.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 03:17 PM

I'll be watching Hulk!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 03:12 PM

Wicker Man? Pah! Give me Pasolini's Canturbury Tales any day - the greatest folk film of all time...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man (ITV4, 9pm Wed 4 July)
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 03:08 PM

Another regular part of the folk tradition - re-runs:-

Jade Wright previews the best films on TV tonight – The Wicker Man (ITV4, 9pm)

Ross

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:53 PM

Merthercarole,
This is a regular part of the folk tradition, where he went East and he went West 'cause he had no sense of direction, O'

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 11:31 AM

"It's certainly possible to be a fan of both anyway."

of course it is !!!!

..any adolescent male growing up in the 70's was desperate for every opportunity
to gawp at minge late night on BBC2.

Even better if the local flea pit box office manager colluded in taking your cash
under the furtive pretence you were over 18...

We'd endure any arse numbing pretentious arty farty tripe in the quest for on-screen fanny.

And in so doing unwittingly benefited from an amazing and mind stretching self education
in cinematic art & culture that's held in good stead for a lifetime.

So much so that one of my old school and sneaking into "X" films mates
is now a very successful and well paid high profile film critic.

Also worth noting that British movie icon Robin Askwith appeared in "The Canterbury Tales "
and has chronicled a 'hilarious' account of his experience being directed by Pasolini.

"The Confessions of Robin Askwith" Ebury Press 1999.

probably 50p from ebay or 10p from charity shops...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Merther Carole
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:58 AM

Sergeant Howie sounds like a cartoon characture!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 05:24 AM

(I'm sorry, I'll post that again; I'm very hungover this morning after a roaring night at The Moorbrook. Actually the landlord was playing Logan's Run on the pub TV when we arrived which set the tone quite nicely - I've promised to lend him The Canterbury Tales DVD...)

It's certainly possible to be a fan of both anyway.

True, true - but, just compare those opening sequences, CS. In the TWM the rather earnest faux-traditional Highland Widow's Lament seques / detunes into Giovanni's somewhat precious arrangement of Corn Riggs, thus establishing the wonky agenda of the neo-pagan / neo-fascist regime on Summerisle. In TCC you get Francis McPeake's glorious rendition of The Ould Piper (no doubt under license from Peter Kennedy!) which serves to invigorate the soul as the pure drop itself. If that ain't diametric opposition I don't know what is. The Ould Piper recurs as a motif in one of the Tales* in which a bizarrely Chaplinesque chancer (who seems to have strayed out of a Spaghetti Western) uses it as part of his general insolence, or else immunity, in the face of whatever life throws at him - be it the prospect of a menage a trois with his gawky low-life pal & his pretty prostitute wife, or else ending up in the stocks as a result of his various misadventures. All together now: nyah-a-ah-a-ah-a-ah...

* I must confess to being a sucker for the Portmanteau film, a format common in horror films of the 60s / 70s (though the classic Dead of Night was made in 1945). One of these, The Vault of Horror (AKA Tales from the Crypt 2) from 1973, also features Tom Baker. Another, Dr Terror's House of Horrors (1965), features an unlikely cast that finds Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee rubbing shoulders with Roy Castle and Alan 'Fluff' Freeman (not half!). I must also confess that one of the principle joys of watching Pasolini's Canterbury Tales was seeing the bald bloke with the big ears from Are You Being Served? in a monk's habit...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Merthercarole
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 05:02 AM

I loved this film although when I saw it for the first time, it didn't frighten me like I was expecting. When it first came out I guess it was quite controversial!

One memorable scene is when Howie is chasing Punch through the streets and he's filmed down an alley running backwards and forwards. It made me laugh out loud. Oh dear, am I sick?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 02:53 PM

"Which are you? A Canterbury Pilgrim or a Wicker Man? Or is it (gulp!) possible to be both?"

Pasolini is fabulous, like stepping into an oil painting and pig shit at the same time.

But the Wicker Man is a joy too, though arguably it worked better as a typical cheesy British horror quietly nestled alongside stuff like Blood on Satan's Claw and The White Worm before it became elevated as some kind of default cultural referent for contemporary alt.-folkie tweeness.

It's certainly possible to be a fan of both anyway.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 02:37 PM

Still think that Cristopher Lee looks like Maddy Prior on speed
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 12:13 PM

I'm slightly uneasy about the current Scottish tourism TV advert, which shows a seaplane swooping over the coast while the solemn voice-over intones 'Scotland has a warm welcome for you.....very warm!'

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 02:37 PM

Whatever happened to The Wicker Tree? January 2012 came and went, "selected cinemas" didn't seem to include any round here, appears to have gone straight to video (DVD from £10 on eBay or Amazon) and straight to YouTube, if you can stand watching a film in bits.

Ross

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 12:16 PM

I'm currently working on the idea that the earthy realism of Pasolini's Canterbury Tales stands in diametric opposition to pure kitsch of The Wicker Man. In TWM even the nudity is fake - as fake as the bogus paganism and the soppy reworkings of folk songs that just add to the overall atmosphere of fascistic fakelore. Pasolini's Canterbury Tales on the other hand is infused with the braw stench of sensual human filth and depravity with a raw soundtrack of real Traditional Song and Medieval Music to match. The nudity is real and yet in no way does serve to titilate; it's as honest and bawdy as anything you find in Traditional Song, which is the core here - this raw idiomatic idyll that lurks in the marginalia of Broadsides and Manuscript and Misericord and is integral to an essential cultural dreaming that somehow was missed entirely by the prudish revival, with significant exceptions of course....   Which are you? A Canterbury Pilgrim or a Wicker Man? Or is it (gulp!) possible to be both?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,BigDaddy
Date: 23 Dec 11 - 10:09 AM

For me, the best thing about the trailer for the film that I saw is that it introduced me to the music of Charlie Terrell. I don't know as yet if "Doxology Blues" is actually used in the film, but it certainly blew me away as it played over the second half of the trailer.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 22 Dec 11 - 10:38 AM

The Wicker Tree? What the f...?

Still, if I'm prepared to sit through endless sequels, prequels & reimaginings of Planet of the Apes, (pity my long suffering wife!) then why not this? And yes, if I had to make the choice it would be Planet of the Apes over Wicker Man every time. Why? Simply a matter of Zeitgeist and cinematographic impact really - after all, they're both essentially about the same thing : indvidual freedom vs. rabid idiotic mass compliance, though at least in PotA there are shades of dissent in the 'community', unlike the fascistic cretins on Summerisle. And they both end with a revelation of statuesque iconography and with our heros crying out in similar despair (though better Taylor's lot than Howie's). And dare I say PotA has a better soundtrack as well??? Hey, just a matter of opinion - I reckon TWM's faux-folk smorgasbord is served up to show how bogus the whole Summerisle set-up is anyway; hence the seque from a fairly traditional rendering of Highland Widow's Lament (beautifully sung by Sheila Mackie) into Giovanni's cunningly twisted Corn Riggs (beautifully sung by Giovanni himself). Stuff of genius really. Anyway - The Wicker Tree, eh? Definitely one to watch out for - along with At Swim Two Birds...

When the villagers turn out to be a murderous cult,
And set you ablaze in a wicker man,
When you cannot find the faith to exult...
A Pint of Plain is Your Only Man!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 22 Dec 11 - 09:46 AM

Review here.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Thomas Stern
Date: 22 Dec 11 - 08:12 AM

from Amazon UK entry for paperback:
''Let's face it, there are strange communities in the world.' Purity rings in hand, a young evangelical Christian singer and her devoted fiancé leave the comfort of their Texas home to journey into heathen parts of the earth, hoping to spread the word of God across the land. Their mission takes them to a bizarre Scottish town whose people and practices turn their world inside out. To call it a culture clash would be too gentle. To reveal anything further would be a blight against the heavens.
38 years after directing THE WICKER MAN (and following a 22-year filmmaking sabbatical), celebrated iconoclast Robin Hardy has reunited with producer Peter Snell and returned to the Pagan pantheon with this hugely eccentric successor film, THE WICKER TREE. The distinction is an important one to make, as this is neither sequel nor re-imagining, but rather a film narrative cut from the same universe (or as its maker refers to it, 'a spiritual sequel'). Hardy is a one-of-a-kind filmmaker, and THE WICKER TREE is brimming with the stamp of his personality. It has ample Scottish colour, reaching out through tons of catchy folk songs interspersed throughout the film. Clever plays on religious iconography and an acute understanding of Pagan ritualism. Ethereal locations. A charged sense of the sexual. A dreamlike sense of the magical. Costumes, dances and animal masks.
An off-centre look at the absurdities of faith (in this case, neither Christian nor Pagan get off easy), THE WICKER TREE could be called a black theological satire, a strange breed of irony-fuelled comedy-musical-horror-thriller-drama. Call it however you like, it will bring a smile to your lips and, perhaps, a torch to your belief system. Based on Hardy's novel [...] and featuring appearances by Christopher Lee, members of the Beltane Fire Society and a compellingly show-stopping Graham McTavish, this is a film that's been brewing for many years, one that has proved exceedingly difficult to mount. Now, finally, it is here. Prepare to ride the laddie and join us in celebrating the second coming of one of cinema s great seers. May Day is upon us. THE WICKER TREE is about to burn' --Mitch Davis, Director of Fantasia Film Festival, on the motion picture The Wicker Tree
--Scottish Review of Books

Best wishes, Thomas.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 07:53 PM

The first link suggests it's "in select theaters (sic) from January 27th." Presumably that means U.S.?

http://www.filmdates.co.uk/films/3304-the-wicker-tree/ gives a UK release date of 9th October 2011, but I haven't been able to find any screening details. It's not on currently in any local (NW England) cinemas, and I can't find any listing site that will provide info beyond the current week.

Thanks for posting, Becky. There's a cinema not far away that may well run this film even if it doesn't get general release. I'll keep looking.

Ross

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 07:21 PM

Are you sure this whole thing isn't a spoof?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: fretless
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 06:09 PM

Thank you for sending this along, Becky. That trailer and the description were fabulous--missionaries vs. the pagans, and guess who wins! I can't wait for the U.S. opening.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 05:24 PM

Stumbled on this: trailer for "The Wicker Tree", another film by director Robin Hardy, as a reimagining or revisitation of the themes of his 1973 film.

movie website
Wickipedia entry
IMDB entry, which gives it as 2010, rather than 2011. It's not released in the U.S. yet, is it out in the U.K.?

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Tom - Swords & Songs
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:08 AM

If anyone is in the North East there is a Wicker Man concert tonight in The Sage Gateshead.

The Memory Band are playing a set of tunes from the Wicker Man film and this is followed by a late night screening of the Directors Cut of the original 1973 film.

Information and tickets from here

Tom

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 02:41 AM

"I read that Christopher Lee described Edward Woodward's part as "beautifully played".
Never been ale to take the film seriously because of the Christopher Lee character's uncanny resemblence to Maddy Prior (on speed).
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,john in Hamilton
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 06:36 PM

Anyone ntice the similarity between the maypole song and John Mayall's 'Room to Move'?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 11:41 AM

And I thought the Lego version was funny. The Teletubbies ending nearly had me rolling on the floor

-----------Nov 2010. Thread closed due to spamming. Contact Joe Offer if you want it reopened, please---------

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:12 AM

Sorry - 4got say - 100 - on last one.

BLTN    -- so 101!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 03:57 AM

After all these years, the original ending has been posted on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHxW3INJBg4 but a word of warning - this version is not for the faint-hearted (or even the feint-hearted!)==

Even more than in previously known version I found self amazed at how loudly & articulately poor Sgt Howie cd shout with all that smoke swirling around him which he must heve been inhaling in such enormous quantities!

(;-}§ LoL

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 10:50 PM

The reviled/despised remake starring Nicholas Cage is on Channel 5, UK, Monday 25th January, 2010, 9pm. I'll be watching, just to see if it's as bad as they say:-

Ebert & Roeper - The Wicker Man (2006) - Richard Roeper & guest critic Aisha Tyler are unintentionally amused by the 2006 Razzie-nominated horror-mystery remake The Wicker Man. ("entertainingly bad" is their agreed assessment).

I couldn't get the Teletubbies link above to work, but found various other Youtube links - Teletubbies in The Wicker Man - "Teletubbies as Pagan gods" - brilliant - I always wondered what the panels in the front were for - it all becomes clear.

Ross

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 06:11 AM

Mockery upon mockery heaped, Vic!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Vic Smith
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 05:32 PM

Of course, you surely all realise that the way the released version of the end of the film was not that way that the director intended. In fact the original version was even more horrific. After all these years, the original ending has been posted on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHxW3INJBg4 but a word of warning - this version is not for the faint-hearted (or even the feint-hearted!)

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 03:27 PM

Final warning - The Wicker Man is on ITV4 (UK) tonight, 10pm - 11.50pm.

Ross

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:18 AM

Silly me - I read it as 11.45 am, and now plan to watch it at 10.00 pm tomorrow; thanks again, Ross.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Old Vermin
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 08:30 AM

ITV4 real enough last night.

Wasn't really staying up that late...just late enough to notice the bodhran played at arm's length with a long stick in the pub.

If the Howie character is meant to be bright and canny enough to fly a sea-plane - with all the complex risk-assessment involved - why is he just so unutterably dim about humans?

Shouldn't take it too literally, I guess.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 05:44 AM

Thanks for this and the PM, Ross: I've found ITV4 +1 but not "The Wicker Man"..? It's showing "Space 1999", and then "The Champions" at 11.30 a.m. But I've now put this channel on my favourites to look out for it.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 07:42 PM

Currently showing on ITV4 (UK) -

The Wicker Man is on TV this week ...
ITV4 12:45am Tue 29 Dec
                
ITV4 + 1 1:45am Tue 29 Dec
        
ITV4 10:00pm Wed 30 Dec

ITV4 + 1 11:00pm Wed 30 Dec

Don't know if ITV4 + 1 is a real station or a figment of my TV Guide's imagination

Ross

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Effsee
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 11:19 PM

You could always use the guid auld Scottish word...a Quaire!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 07:30 PM

How about if I put 'em at four corners, a wreck-tangle?

FYI thanks

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 05:54 PM

FYI - the '4' version of 'trilogy' is 'tetralogy': a quadrangle is something else.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 05:14 PM

Interesting how "Wicker Man" thread evokes mentions of Waugh and Brideshead Revisited. I was very eager to see BR when it came out as I'd just completed my first reading of it, and the roster of actors for it was formidable, but when it was aired I was in school.

Brideshead Revisited is one of the three "Christian" themed works which I have found very moving. My mother once mentioned that the author Chaim Potok mentioned it as an influence in his work. The other two outstanding Christian themed works for me are: Dostoyevsky's Brothers Karamazov and William Miller's A Canticle for Leibowitz. I have not checked out if a movie has ever been made for BK, but New Hampshire Public Radio did a creditable radioplay version of Canticle.
Recently I read an interesting little book which may join my Christian Trilogy, or, more better stated, turn my trilogy to a quadrangle: Master And Margarita by Bulgakov.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 01:15 PM

Ahh, looks like they didn't notice your request SO'P.
Some time back I posted a sarcastic reply to some bitchy ageist/misogynist Guest troll, only to find in the morning that I was seemingly making a peculiar and completely isolated comment about vaginal dryness. Live and learn, eh?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:12 AM

Note to Mods: If you delete that spam post please delete my response to it which would look a bit odd without it.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:11 AM

Who needs cheap viagra when you've got The Wicker Man?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 07:29 AM

Lame & misleading, even down to now-ubiquitous Green Man, albeit antlered in a Bamberg mask - I ask you! The Frazerian myth holds sway in this dotty montage of revivalist fantasy folklore though of course you won't find a Green Man in The Golden Bough. In fact, it would appear the pub name (blink and you'll miss it!) in The Wicker Man is ground-zero for The Green Man in a popular neo-pagan / folkloric context.

Not to be outdone however, I adopted the guise of The Green Man at last year's Morpeth Northumbrian Gathering (see HERE). Far from being pagan, however, the costume represents an attempt at recreating a medieval carnival figure which many Foliate Head carvings could well be depicting, such as this Sinister Supporter on a misericord in Chester Cathedral which I used as a prototype for the mask. I even won a prize for my efforts, though naturally enough the coat was made by my dear darling mother-in-law...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 12:59 AM

Amusing, Suibhne — but would have been even more so if the singer's diction hadn't been so dire — or if there had been subtitles. Couldn't hear a single word he was 'singing' — the sort of self-indulgent ineptitude I used always to denounce in my reviews of folk records.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:58 PM

Re: 100% bullshit based on Frazerian fantasy & other highly outdated approaches to folklore....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFF6wtP8BBk

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Richd in work
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:17 AM

I saw TWM when it was released with Don't Look Now- the Nick Roeg film. The 1973 cut was the original 99 min edit done by Hardy. This was also the cut that went to Roger Corman . Corman cut it to 88 mins for the US drive-in market. Quite a lot of additional footage was trashed. Rumour has it it was dumped under the M3 by British Lion. Later, there was a 'restored' US version in between the two in length. Can't exactly remeber how long that one was, or when it came out and don't have notes handy. I much preferred Don't Look Now. Ironically, I now teach TWM once a year as part of a course on British Cinema. It's interesting how each class interprets the same film in different ways.This year they picked up on the contrast and simularities between the world views of Howie and Summerisle- religion, differnt kinds of authority and power. My opinion still hasn't changed over the years and the screenings, it's not all it's cracked up to be, and I much prefer a good Hammer. For occult b***cks Donald Cammel- Performanc, White of the Eye

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:05 AM

that weren't from The parodied, bowdlerised, very fevered imaginings of Dennis Wheatly, Stoker and Mary Shelley via Hammer)

Not that the imaginings of Sir James Frazer (the main source used by the writers of TWM) are any less fevered of course. The paganism of TWM is, like neo-paganism in general, 100% bullshit based on Frazerian fantasy & other highly outdated approaches to folklore.

Quiz time! What legendary Study of Comparative Religion connects The Wicker Man to Apocalyspe Now? And in what way?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:58 AM

Hey, that last post of mine got back on thread with mention of the Wicker Man novels. A search on Abe Books reveals the copy of Ritual presently on Amazon.com is a bit of a snip. Odd how it hasn't seen a reprint if it's so highly prized.

Brief thread-drift: be sure watch Apocalypse Now next Friday, 9pm on Film4, WAV - which has a literary precedent in Conrad's Heart of Darkness. Interesting that a film version I once saw of HoD (with Patrick Stewart?) seemed to owe more to Apocalypse Now than Conrad's classic novel.

Back on thread: I'm now going to take this opportunity to mention my personal Wicker Man tribute in which I sing two versions of Gently Johnny (to the Traditional Melody) as bookends to the free-style canting of Walt Whitman's Song of Myself #32 from Leaves of Grass - as chillingly (and imperfectly) intoned by Lord Summerisle as young Ash Buchanan is getting his jollies with Willow. You can hear this as Track #4 on my Myspace Page. The second set of Gently Johnny is C#'s expurgated text which I find infinitely more erotic than the more explicit set, the chorus taking on quite vivid sexual symbolism which is rather eclipsed in the other set.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Micca
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:15 AM

Back in about 1973-4 I went to see a double bill of films at a cinema in Baker St london (The Times? Classic?)I went specifically to see "Dont Look Now" (an excellent film in its own right) I had No Idea what "the Wicker Man" was about, and watched fascinated at the first portrayal of any kind of pagan beliefs I had ever seen in the cinema,(that weren't from The parodied, bowdlerised, very fevered imaginings of Dennis Wheatly, Stoker and Mary Shelley via Hammer)That seemed to treat the beliefs with, if not sympathy, at least some understanding that the Judeo-Christian was not the only Western spiritual path. As the film neared the ending I was CERTAIN they would wimp out, and Howie would be rescued,right up to the end, as the sun touched the horizon and the head of the Giant fell in flames I sat in my seat stunned!!! I could not believe they had followed through, and treated their audience as adults, and thinking adults at that,It made an impression on me that has lasted. The debate about "short" v "long" version, I found the "bit before the titles" and the banter in the police station (in the "long" version) very informative regarding the rigid Calvinistic beliefs of the sarjeant and his lack of tolerence and flexibility. I prefer that Long version.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:38 AM

Thanks R. & R. - I just added Film Four to Favourites on my basic Sky package, so I can keep a look out for this movie.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:54 AM

Agree with much of SO'P on Waugh, tho thought the itv Brideshead had some v good moments, esp those involving Olivier & Gielgud — even tho it started with the absolute ballsup of Capt Ryder saying 'Good morning, Sergeant-major' to a soldier with the insignia of a colour-sergeant [I have written already on that towards the end of the Bless 'Em All thread]. Must say I regard A Handful of Dust, along with Brideshead & much of Vile Bodies, as his most accomplished novel. Am v fond of Black Mischief [tho too un-PC for today's younger readers I suspect] & Put Out More Flags. Find Scoop much overrated, tho I know it has its admirers. Scott-King's Modern Europe, along with other shorter late novellas like Ordeal Of Gilbert Penfold & Basil Seal Rides Again, well worthwhile too. I can't warm to the Men At Arms trilogy, tho recognise its quality.

There you are, Sweeney. Hope you feel a bit better. Get Well Soon.

Now, enough drift [I know I started it]. Can we have my thread back to The Wicker Man, please? I found Paula t's post, two or three back, about how terrifying she found it when forced to watch it from behind the bar in the pub where she was working, most fascinating and moving. Thank you, Paula. Any more such comments or memories?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:08 AM

The Theatre (short) version DVD was given away free with the Guardian or Observer newspaper about a year ago,

I've got a copy in my in-law's garage in a wee stack of such freebies, including a truly ghastly version of Handful of Dust (Sturridge, 2003). Must dig them out next time I'm over there, HoD notwithstanding. I'm a great fan of Evelyn Waugh, but there is a tendency for over-acted po-faced adaptations which no way reflect the dynamics of the narratives. Brideshead Revisited is one of the most exquisite novels ever written, but the TV adaptation I find relentlessly turgid and ultimately unwatchable. The exception here is Vile Bodies, adapted by Stephen Fry as Bright Young Things (also in 2003). I suppose he had half the work already done for him here as Waugh wrote Vile Bodies very much in the manner of a movie treatment, with short snappy scenes driving the narrative along at a rare old pace. It's a joy to watch - not least for the delightful Fenella Woolgar. My only complaint is that the fictional war wrote of by Waugh in 1930 is not, of course, the 1939-45 war, though that's the impression given in the film with its use of WW2 radio clips which throws the thing into something of an anachronistic turmoil. Still worth watching though. Better still - read the book, though you won't get the lovely Fenella...

Talking of books, anyone here read The Wicker Man novels? The first is David Pinner's Ritual from 1967 from which TWM took it's initial inspiration. I haven't read it myself, nor even seen a copy - though there's a copy going on Amazon.com for a less than tempting $386.26! The second is Robin Hardy's novelisation of the film which I once tried to read but soon gave up on. Like remakes, Film Novelisations never work...

I am prepared to be contradicted here; as my Penguin Flu moves into its 4th week it has shifted into its most nasty phase so far, miring me with mucus, giddy deliriums and quite vivid dreams (last night I dreamt of both Peter Bellamy and Ian Curtis) - so I am in need of distraction & diversion. Where better to turn at such times than Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 10:22 PM

Slight drift — I can if I like, I'm the OP!

Suibhne has a very good point — a lot of films are just much too long nowadays: best e.g. that comes to my mind — I bought dvd of 'The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford' [titles are too long too btw!]. It would have been quite a good movie of 85 minutes. But it went on for over 2½ hrs, by which time, boy had I ever nodded off. Why will they do that?!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: paula t
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 06:44 PM

I don't think I could watch it again.The wicker man scene was so disturbing.I saw it in the pub about 25 years ago, when I was working behind the bar. I did my best to block out the screaming, but couldn't. Too real.Horrible.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 06:33 PM

I actually prefer the shorter cut; I've seen the longer cuts and all they do is slow up the action with some extraneous religious stuff which is (pretty much) covered by Howie's character anyway. Less is so very often more. A few years ago they issued a Redux version of Apocalypse Now which was quite possibly one of the worst films I've ever seen. The original, on the other hand, is one of the best - again covering themes of individuality, compliance, tribalism, and the psychotic consequences of religious extremism - and it's on Friday week on Film4.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: richd
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 04:00 PM

The slightly longer CH4 DVD version can currently be bought in Tesco for £3.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 02:34 PM

The Wicker Man has been broadcast several times on UK TV recently (couple of months back? Can't remember which channel). Film Four (and other channels) tends to use things several times over a couple of weeks, and will then re-cycle them some months after, so you probably won't have long to wait. Worth looking round charity shops (locally selling vhs tapes five for a pound, DVDs for £1/£2/£3 apiece. I managed to find the original theatre version, the director's cut, and even the reviled (and unnecessary) remake in DVD form within the last few months.

The Theatre (short) version DVD was given away free with the Guardian or Observer newspaper about a year ago, so there should be plenty of copies floating about.

Ross

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:42 PM

...I keep checking here in case a TV schedule has been changed to broadcast it.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: fretless
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:36 PM

Of the three versions of this film, respectively 88, 99, and 102 (or is it 110?) minutes, the longest one is the best, but I haven't been able to locate it on a DVD formatted for Region 1 (US and Canada). Does a 100+ version for Region 1 even exist? Is it on sale for the New World side of the pond?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 03:02 PM

Re:

By association - nerdy, hobbyist, ultimately pointless, primarily concerned with taxonomy and entirely removed from the culture & application of the thing in its natural living environment. I think most everyone on the planet has used stamps at some point in their lives, and even appreciated the beauty of some of them, but what proportion regard them as a subject worthy of study and move into realms of philately?

I asked a friend of mine why he collected stamps; his pragmatic reply: "in case I'm ever paralyzed!"

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:11 PM

You cain't fool me — there ain't no sanity clause...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:10 PM

tutti-frutti ice-cream

Tutsi-frutsi ice-cream if you please! ;-)

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:10 PM

... and don't forget that philately will get you nowhere!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 11:03 AM

Actually, Sui, I am having at this moment a delightful mental image of you stalking like Groucho, cigar & all, & smiling like Harpo, & vending like Chico — "Come and get your ice-cream; get your tutti-frutti ice-cream".

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Stu
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:56 AM

Fair enough. It's just as an amateur palaeontologist and lover of Irish traditional music you held up a mirror . . .

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:33 AM

Not damning at all - I think it's glorious & I recognise and celebrate such tendencies in myself, but I refuse to kow-tow to the sort of noxious absolutism we've seen in other threads - such as Does Folk Exist?. The problem I have is reconciling pedantry with pragmatism especially with respect of a music that only exists by dint of its having been defined as such by outsiders and removed entirely from its natural habitat and reinvented by way of a revival elsewhere. I am one such outsider with a life-long love of such material and I have a similar philatelic approach to (say) The Earthly Recordings of Sun Ra, The Recorded Legacy of Joy Division, the Soft Machine and the Third Ear Band - likewise the films of The Marx Brothers, although here my appreciation is somewhat different in that I don't then go out and perform such material however inspirational I might find it!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:26 AM

Any hobby could be similarly impugned. Seems a bit perverse to pick on the poor philatelist, when you equally well have chosen the numismatist, or the whatever·ya·call·him·who·does·matchboxes, or a friend of mine, distinguished folklorist of the urban myth, who used to collect soft-drink cans — or the folkie, for that matter. Frankly, I consider you to have arbitrarily & unacceptably & hyperbolically & erroneously overdefined the term — taxonomically.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Stu
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:08 AM

Crikey - seems a tad damning of the enthusiastic amateur doesn't it?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:00 AM

in what sense "philatelic"?

By association - nerdy, hobbyist, ultimately pointless, primarily concerned with taxonomy and entirely removed from the culture & application of the thing in its natural living environment. I think most everyone on the planet has used stamps at some point in their lives, and even appreciated the beauty of some of them, but what proportion regard them as a subject worthy of study and move into realms of philately?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 08:48 AM

Mind you, it can get confusing. To prove my point, I just tried singing words of Willie O W to tune of Queen Eleanor's Confession, but going from stanza 1 to 2, found I was going

...Has lain long with his daughter at home.

The king called down his nobles all ...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 08:44 AM

Why, you can sing it to any ballad tune, of course. Ballad metre isn't also often ref'd to as "common metre" for nothing; & any ballad written in it can, notionally, be sung to the tune of any other. In that sense, partic tunes attib'd by convention to specific ballads are somewhat arbitrary, as I have often observed. But one still likes the idea of a special tune for each ballad, doesn't one. Nevertheless, as you say, Bronson's Fause Foudrage has sort of become assocd with W o W & the sky hasn't fallen.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 08:31 AM

The tune most frequently used these days for Willie is still the tune assigned in Bronson to Fause Fooodrage. Andy Irvine seems to have created an entire chapter of folklore over this; I was told in Ireland that here was the very bookshop where he dropped a tome and lo! it fell open and a page with the tune fluttered out . . .

Cue Brian Peters to come along and tell us what else you can sing it to.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 07:50 AM

Out of interest, Suibhne — in what sense "philatelic"?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 06:44 AM

how effective the Willie O Winsbury tune is

Effective it certainly is, but I've always been a sucker for brass bands playing traditional / folk tunes. An especial favourite is a field-recording I made at the Durham Miners' Gala some years ago in which one of the passing bands plays a medley of Tyneside classics including Blaydon Races & Come Geordie Haad the Bairn with great gusto. Is that a Traditional tune? It's part of my cultural blood & soul and on that criteria alone I'd have to say that it is!

Free secure MP3 download here:

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/777672108/1e8a7db40920bacd94f468560212c769

Is it true that the Willie O' Winsbury tune was originally Fause Foodrage and would have remained so had not the wind turned the pages of Andy Irvine's music book? Less forgiveable, perhaps, is Pentangle's use of Lay the Bent for The Cruel Sister, but I'm not the Folk-Eater I used to be on such matters. Having seen the real Folk-Eaters and Dementors in action on Mudcat has certainly been an education in the deathly extremes of philatelic pedantry!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 11:08 PM

Ta, Suibhne!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 09:09 PM

The Interior of the Green Man on Summerisle was actualy the Ellangowan in Creetown. My best mate and expat Swinton Folk Clubber, Dave, emmigrated to Scotland a couple of years ago and lives about 2 miles from Creetown, so it is his local and I have a few good pints there myself now. Very nice pub and lots of the cast of The Wicker Man have revisted, including Edward Woodward, who stood a few rounds for the whole pub apparantly.

By a strange quirk of fate it brings us back to Folk Music. This very weekend there is a private party where lots of Swintonites, excluding me unfortunately, are descending on the Ellangowan and bringing a touch of Lancashire culture and music to the heathen Scot:-)

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 07:29 PM

"Carry On Pagan"...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 06:18 PM

Suibhne = Sweeney
O = O
Piobaireachd = Pibrock

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 05:36 PM

As distinct from WAVey?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 04:45 PM

...this thread has gone all SOPpy.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 04:13 PM

SOP would you please let me know how to pronounce your name, as I am inconvenienced with a lack of in-depth knowledge of the Gaelic. If you feel this is not a public discourse topick, by all means mail me.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:52 PM

No-one tho, talking of the music, has responded to my comments in my OP on how effective the Willie O Winsbury tune is, played as a march on the brass to open the parade as the climax begins. Has anyone noticed that, & do you agree?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Gervase
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:47 PM

I've never been able to see it as anything but a poorly-cut load of twaddle, mashing up bits of Frazer and Gardner into a typicaly plastic pagan pick'n'mix.
Apart from Lee and Woodward the acting is more wooden than my kitchen table, while the music is a series of rather twee pastiches.
That said, I've not seen 'the director's cut', but I doubt that it could redeem the dreadful acting and the clunking script.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:38 PM

Why, thank you, Doc. We do our best to please... esp when it comes to beautiful naked ladies!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:21 PM

Always watch the longer version, the 'Director's Cut', (both are available on the same DVD): there's some beautiful photography of the islands and the character of Sgt Howie becomes clearer when he is shown before he leaves for the island, so that the film becomes more understandable, among other clarifications. The longer version still suffers from cuts and there is at least one scene that doesn't make sense.
I read somewhere that there is a 'Wickerman II' in which Lord Summerisle and Sgt Howie (somehow) reappear. Any information please?
M the GM, I greatly admire your skill of observation and appreciation of delightful naked ladies!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 12:18 PM

SRS - whatever you do, don't accidently get the Nicolas Cage remake. It truly stinks...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: goatfell
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 10:44 AM

I like the picture a real horror picture, better that these funny ones that now show

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 10:39 AM

Time to add this to my NetFlix queue!

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 10:22 AM

Not unless you've been empowered to do so by Lord Summerisle.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Morris-ey
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 09:13 AM

or even write for wickerpedia..

is editing posts possible on this site?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Morris-ey
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 09:12 AM

Sweeny

You should wirte for wikerpedia...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Green Man
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 08:55 AM

Well this is a fine movie and no doubt, always been a fan of Mr Woodward and Christopher Lee.

As for all of the psychobabble, neo pagan whut?

Its a movie!

Green Man is incensed at the taking of his name in fun and wants more of it!

:) You want to see pagan, look at the RC Church now there's a cult if ever I saw one.

The thing about the craft or druidry is that you can't just be a druid or a witch you have to use the tools and do something with them.

And at very least it got you'all talking about it.

GM (Not food)

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 08:53 AM

The Tor spirit remains unchanged, though even back in 1983 I remember the Labyrinth / Zodiac types hanging about pressing their dogma with worrying sort of righteous zeal. On one hand they were telling you about the isle of Avalon, and the next about the Glastonbury Zodiac but when you pointed out that the two ideas were logically incompatible on account of the supposed zodiac being underwater for thousands of years they looked at you as if you were from another planet. Amazing how quickly the Tor Labyrinth was accepted as fact, an attitude which fed into the whole Earth Mysteries vibe with a worrying sort of fundamentalism which put me right off the whole thing. I much prefer the cultivation terraces idea!

Here's a wee film we made back in May 2005 when they were fixing the erosion by means of a helicopter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--XmMAR4lPE

The Green Man that appears near the beginning is from St John's Church on the High Street, not far from a shop called The Goddess and the Green Man; the copy of Mercia MacDermott's Explore Green Men I bought there that day still has a faint scent of incense about it! If anyone here has heard the Plough Plays album by The Nihil Project, the music here is the basic baking track we did for Weaving Wheat which features on their Myspace Page.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Stu
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 07:37 AM

"Stopping off in Glastonbury last summer it was evident just how overloaded such a dogma has become; a conservatism entirely at odds with the freedoms it would otherwise claim to espouse."

Over the years Glastonbury has become a clearing house for all manor of neo-pagan tat. It's got worse over the years and even worse since the excellent George and Pilgrim was taken over by someone who doesn't allow dogs in any more. I still like going, the Tor and the Well still have an air about them and the Abbey grounds are always a joy and some interesting people still turn up there.

However, the sort of dogma SOB mentions in his post has existed in the community for years. I one wrote to Paul Deveraux when he was editing The Ley Hunter (sigh . . .) and suggested he might like to hoof it up here to the Peak District and check out some of our slightly more remote spots where the presence of the 'earth spirit' was almost tangible, and he replied in terms of "sure it is" but didn't seem interested that wasn't on a ley line (or 'spirit road' as they later became).

I decided many people weren't particularly interested in actual 'pagan' sites and folklore but simple wanted a theology that included the glossy bits but not the muddy bits. Ever Read Ross Nichol's book on Druidry? Case in point.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Smedley
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 07:27 AM

Sorry if this is sacrilege, but for me one of the best Wicker Man musical 'outcomes' was the track 'How Do' by Sneaker Pimps. They sampled dialogue from the film & adapted one of the folk melodies to produce one of the finest tracks in what was (briefly) called the trip-hop genre.

Not very Mudcat, I realise.......

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 07:14 AM

I think the 'black comedy' post is probably closest. The Edward Woodward character is such a pompous ass. He's like Harold Bishop from Neighbours, or Alan Partridge. Plus the film is often funny, like the slapstick of him going round looking for the body (was it?) in cupboards etc. Not sure it's a coherent enough movie to be a successful allegory as polarised as suggested here. It's hardly Arturo Ui or Lohengrin.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 05:40 AM

Willow's Song was one of the first 'folk' songs I learned to sing - a couple of years ago now, when I bought TWM soundtrack along with an old Pentangle album I remembered from my early teens. Like Spleen, TWM soundtrack (along with Cruel Sister I think) made me look further into folk song.


Further to reductive tendencies in Neo-Pagan dogma, Willow's Song's been done and done again by Pagan stylee folkies. And I think it loses something essential in being treated too carelessly, like a kind of Pagan celebration of Earthly Love or something (which of course it isn't at all - if you consider the context.) I like to treat it as more of a sinister Siren's song than a celebration of sexuality, and it works much better for me when approached on that level.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 05:13 AM

For an in depth overview of the music:

http://www.wicker-man.com/musicofthewickerman.php

I think this basically the booklet notes from the Silver Screen soundtrack CD, but worth a look anyway.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 05:08 AM

Oops! Reading the interview with Lesley Mackie it wasn't her singing Willow's Song on the fim, rather a nameless music student. She sings it on the soundtrack CD though...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 05:02 AM

and the louche landlord - who was that?

None other than mime artist Lindsay Kemp - theatrical mentor for both David Bowie and Kate Bush.

*

My feelings on The Wicker Man have changed over the years. I started off on the pro-pagan foot (pagan that I was back then) and it wasn't until watching Frankenstein one rainy day in 1997 that the TWM analogue hit me, thus sending me back to the notorious Milgram Experiment and similar themes of individuality and mass compliance explored in The Prisoner, which runs pretty close in terms of a certain Zeitgeist. My love of the film hasn't changed though, nor yet my love of the soundtrack which I regard as a triumph - not least for Lesley Mackie's singing, who covers the ground between Highland Widow's Lament and Willow's Song in a single fire-leap. Others have tried, but no one comes close; see HERE for an interview.

That TWM has served as a pamphlet for the proscriptive Frazerian absolutes of neo-paganism (even the Green Man scrapes in by the skin of his teeth as the name of the pub!) is, I feel, unfortunate - especially as much of that thinking still remains current in both the pagan & popular imaginations. Couched in such absolutist terms, it has become the theology of a very persistent Zeitgeist we are somehow loathe to let go of - or else is loathed to let go of us! Stopping off in Glastonbury last summer it was evident just how overloaded such a dogma has become; a conservatism entirely at odds with the freedoms it would otherwise claim to espouse.

At the end of the day, I am with Sergeant Howie - I was never a one for being part of a mob. Sure, he is the despised sibling of Number Six (who at least did escape) - but in that respect he serves as a timely reminder that human individually is often most marked in the outcast & outsider.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 04:52 AM

Never seen it - pray tell me if it's to be shown on TV.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 04:11 AM

I can understand why it's critics hate it - I think it's one of those films that if it doesn't get under your skin could be deeply irritating. For me, it's one of those I keep coming back to, ever since seeing it at a one-off afternoon showing at the Cornerhouse in Manchester sometime in the 80s. I remember being absolutely entranced and then somehow disppointed on leaving the cinema that I was rejoining a typically grey, drizzly, ordinary Manchester teatime. Summerisle stayed with me for a long time. The film is one of the things that led me back to a love both of folksong and fakesong.

Christopher Lee once said that the loss of most of the bits of the film that were cut prior to original release was one of his greatest regrets.

I believe that the Memory Band did some gigs last year involving playing the soundtrack live as the film was shown. Any one here see them?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:51 AM

I read that Christopher Lee described Edward Woodward's part as "beautifully played".

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 09:24 PM

Re his religion [see Dave MacKenzie's query above] - surely some sort of strict Calvinism?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 07:05 PM

Much of it was filmed in Galloway close to where my wife comes from. The gardens (Summer Isles) are actually Logan Gardens - south of Stranraer.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Old Vermin
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 06:51 PM

So'P . I am most impressed by the scholarly analogy.

My own take on it tends to be intuitively:

A black comedy. Howie, a study in religiose and authoritarian incompetence: utterly sure of his own righteousness. At forty-whatever, he is saving himself for his eventual marriage - scene cut from later versions. He blithely and contemptuously crashes in single-handed to deal with people he thinks of as simple folk. Utterly ignores all possibility of danger. A complete bloody fool, and a steaming incompetent. Meanwhile the simple folk manipulate him most gloriously.

Camp or possibly kitsch.. Using *that* much of The Golden Bough is just really, really over-doing it. And the writhing against the wall...not what you might call subtle, there.

Music that lingers in the memory. Ian Cutler really enjoying himself. the scenes with the sea-plane and longshore-men. The Landlord's Daughter. and the louche landlord - who was that?

Some very good acting. For Woodward to make Howie's blinkered pomposity credible was a superb achievement. And Christopher Lee was just so matter-of-fact about it.

Hadn't given it the same thought as SoP - been a dissertation, I wonder - and shall look it differently in future.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 06:05 PM

Sorry, that was my great aunt's house.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 06:04 PM

I love it, but then I'm biased. It's got my great-aunt's, my uncle and his boat (yes, Escampador always had the eye on the prow), and former Sandy Bell's regular, Lyndsey Kemp.

The only jarring aspect is when the domestic architecture changes abruptly from Wester Ross to Galloway. And what denomination is Edward Woodward supposed to be? When I first saw the early scenes I thought he was a Catholic.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Surreysinger
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 05:35 PM

One thing not mentioned by anyone here is the fact that Christopher Lee regarded the film as his best piece of film work. I find it an interesting piece of work, but rather irritating ... most notable for me some good camera work, particularly the final credits with the sunrise... the rest of it after first watch just made me want to yawn (despite the presence of Edward Woodward in it, which was the main reason for watching it in the first place). Rather a non-story, and now rather dated.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 04:40 PM

Britt Ekland's dance was somewhat bowdlerized in the version I saw, but it was presented as part of that rich, sexually frank world that was denied the Woodward character.
It was, so to speak, a 'high' point of the film.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 04:25 PM

SO'P's analysis is very interesting, not merely in reference to the film itself (though I don't fully agree with it - perhaps another post) but also in relation to the broader cultural Neo-Pagan phenomenon. And most especially with reference to modern self-defined 'Heathen' or 'Norse' aspects of Neo-Pagan Religion, which I fear indeed has some unfortunate ideological and cultural linkages to Nazism...

As an aside, Morris Sides concerned about BNP infiltration, unfortunately would do well to keep such things in mind...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 04:25 PM

As I say, the singer of Brit Elkland's naked dance (AKA Willow's Song) is Shiela Mackie, who also sang the masterful Highland Widow's Lament that opens the usual / shorter cut of the film, and many (myself included!) have mistaken for Ray Fisher.

And whilst we're on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdWY-AMY_zY

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 04:06 PM

Disagree with Diane &c. Think SO'P's & Robo's analyses masterly.

That is actually not Ekland's bottom, Virginia, tho her tits; but bum is that of a Glasgow stripper called Jane Jackson — if you look carefully, she was slightly taller & slightly slimmer & slightly straighter-haired. I gather Ekland was pregnant at time, so didn't mind topless but didn't want to show bum - tho I don't quite understand why...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 04:00 PM

"Wow! Not one mention of Britt Eckland's naked assed sex dance."

Hell, but wasn't she bloody gorgeous? Actually you'll find I already did it over on the other one.. :) Though I posted it with specific reference to Woodwards character's behaviour mind you.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 04:00 PM

The Britt Ekland naked dance isn't mentioned because her voice was dubbed and so was her body.

Apart from that yes - it was Britt Ekland.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:51 PM

Really. Well I never knew that

No neither did I. I merely saw it as the biggest load of cobblers that it clearly is.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Amergin
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:48 PM

I think some one is reading too much into the film...

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:47 PM

Wow! Not one mention of Britt Eckland's naked assed sex dance.

I'm really proud of you guys.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:47 PM

Liked the Woodward version of Wicker Man. Don't bother with the Nicholas Cage remake. Didn't like the modern re-doing of the Burns' tune, but that's the folky in me. Why throw out a great tune and replace it with a new, mediocre one. But it's all in all and entertaining film.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:43 PM

It does something similar to The Prisoner in that it pits the individual against the repressive conservatism and conformity of society. In TWM however the individual is made as disagreeable as possible (unlike the hero Number Six), but Howie is still the individual, and the seductiveness of the society (the the tastes and colors of a rich life beyond his training you speak) are demonstrated to be vacuous, bogus, entirely hollow and, ultimately, murderous. The end is as chilling a damnation of human vulnerability to absolute authority as anything in the history of cinema - even Scum - even more so when people invariable come away from it feeling a sense of triumph.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:24 PM

Really. Well I never knew that.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:24 PM

I thought it was a set as a nice kick-in-the-pants to conservative Christianity as represented by Woodward's character who is so rigidly defined by his church attendance at the beginning, his baleful-eyed lack of recpetivity as the Islanders' neo-paganism is revealed with great frankness in the middle of the film, and his open-eyed walk into a fairly obvious trap set him by the locals.

Woodward's interpretation of a Protestant Scotsman tone-deaf to the tastes and colors of a rich life beyond his training (socio-religious as well as constabulary) was masterful.

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:07 PM

The Wicker Man is actually metaphorical of the condition of Nazi Germany, albeit somewhat more subtle than Orwell's retelling of the birth of Soviet Russia in Animal Farm. The closing scene is the first clue, being so openly an analogue to that of James Whales' Frankenstein (1931) - the difference being that whilst in Frankenstein our sympathies are very much with the creature, in TWM, however, we're part of the mob, mindlessly chanting Sumer Is Icumen In as Sargent Howie screams his last. It operates as a tidy cinematographic equivalent of The Milgram Experiment in that the humanity of the islanders has been subsumed in respect to a higher moral authority which has been demonstrated to be entirely corrupt. The islanders, like the people of Nazi Germany, have been fed an entirely bogus pseudo-religious construct based on the flimsiest of folkloric precedents; they have been rendered docile, manipulated by mere spectacle; anaesthetised by enforced compliance to the extent that they willingly participate in a horrific murder which is, in actuality, a desperate buying of time as the foundations of the aristocratic order of Summerisle begin to crumble.

It's interesting to speculate on what purpose might be served by the clumsy segue from the opening Highland Widow's Lament, as respectfully sung in a traditional manner by Shiela Mackie (who also sang willows Song) with Northumbrian (!) pipes & chorus, into Paul Gionvanni's sublime though purposefully non-traditional setting of Burns' Corn Riggs. There is a lurch of conciousness here between the traditional, and the faux-traditional, between the real world and the world of Summerisle, where Giovanni's increasingly surreal perversions of traditional themes are as twisted as the neo-pagan beliefs of the islanders themselves. A totalitarian state has been contrived from an interpretation of folkloric elements, the Frazerian notions writ large whereby the people were believed to be entirely ignorant of the real meanings behind the customs they themselves perpetuated! The customs of the people have been used against themselves, and hitherto vague symbolism (i.e. the may-pole) have become didactic absolutes. Even their own natural bawdiness becomes a moral prison. How else might we interpret the weeping in the erotic night scene? Or else the beguiled faces of the musicians as they sing Gently Johnny whilst poor Ash Buchanan is being abusively initiated (though I doubt he's complaining) by Willow McGregor in the room above whilst Lord Summerisle utters his chilling, yet beautiful, soliloquy which consistently misquotes Part 32 of Song of Myself from Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass?

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: open mike
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 01:49 PM

or even a cult....we have discussed it several times.

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=89099#1679193

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=64126#1046213

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=94137#1832771


there are (at least) 2 versions...longer 100 min., and shorter 88 min.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070917/

Subject: RE: Film: The Wicker Man
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 01:25 PM

What I love about TWM is the way it's virtually spawned a whole young folk 'tradition' of it's very own.

Subject: Film: The Wicker Man
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 01:18 PM

Edward Woodward's death brings this fine film back to mind. It has much folk content, in the songs, dances, customs, superstitions &c that run as a sort of leitmotiv thru it. One I haven't seen mentioned in any of the notes on it in Wiki, film guides, &c, is the effectiveness of the tune of 'Willie o Winsbury' played on brass instruments as a march at the beginning of the parade which leads up to the final climax.

Any other examples of overlooked folk motifs in it?