BS: Another new steam loco!

Subject: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Phot
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:56 AM

During the Tornado thread, someone mentioned a GWR 47XX 2-8-0 as a new build project.

Well if the railway press are to be belived, you might just get one! The Great Western Society (GWS) have announced plans to build a 47XX when they have finished 6023. I have a contact in the GWS, and will be finding out if the roumours are are true, as soon as I can.

So, Hall on steroids anyone?

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 10:54 AM

Wow! A heavy frieght 2-8-0. Would be brilliant. (Still prefer a southern loco, but mcan't have everything) Anything steam powered will be great. Will they number it 4709 I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:41 AM

and don't forget the 'Patriot':

http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/project.html

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:52 PM

http://www.bluebellrailway.co.uk/bluebell/locos/atlantic/background.html

And the Brighton Atlantic project (Though not a scratch build like the otheres)I thought that someone had bequested enough money to finish it off, but am not sure. Difficult living in isolation. The future for railway preservation looks really bright.

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:23 PM

Any photos of the drawings for this new locomotive?

I was wondering what was the largest UK locomotive, and if somebody can link to photos. I always thought the 4-8-8-4 Union Pacific Big Boy was the largest, but it wasn't. The Big Boy is definitely my favorite locomotive - of the 8 in existence, I've visited four. A more powerful locomotive is the 2-6-6-6 C&O Allegheny, which is slightly lighter than the Big Boy - there are two Allegheny locomotives in existence, and I've seen both of them. I also have a fondness for the 4-8-8-2 Southern Pacific Cab Forward, especially because I live in sight of the Donner Pass tracks it used to travel. Another favorite of mine is the gear-driven Shay locomotive.

This Chart lists the world's largest locomotives, but doesn't list any from the UK. I think the most beautiful steam locomotives came from the UK, but most were of moderate size. What was the largest?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: HuwG
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:02 PM

The largest ever locomotive used in Britain was Gresley's solitary U1, a 2-8-0+0-8-2 Garrett used as a banking locomotive on the Worsborough Incline between Barnsley and Penistone, both in Yorkshire. See the Wikipedia article

Next in size were another class of thirty-three LMS Garrett

Next down from that were an experimental 4-6-4 by Gresley, and the unsuccessful (or rather, uneconomic) 2-8-2 P1 class, also by Gresley. After that were probably the very successful LMS Duchesses, and then lots of other 4-6-2 Pacific classes.

British steam designs were always limited by loading gauge and axle weight restrictions. The Duchesses, the Gresley A4 class and the BR 9F 2-10-0 heavy freight locomotives probably represented the ultimate possible power from traditional designs based on one boiler mounted above the running gear.

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:44 AM

HuwG, that Garrett is one interesting locomotive! Thanks for finding it for me.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Phot
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 05:29 AM

If you are interested Joe, type 9f Evening Star into You Tube, or just 9f. There are some great clips of Black Prince lifting 1000 tones of stone at Mearehead quarry. Black Prince also holds the record for UK steam traction at 2178 tons unassisted. Small fry compaired to what a Big Boy could lift, but we don't have your loading gauge!

Wassail!! Chris

PS Thanks to whoever did the clickie thing to the GWS

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 06:55 AM

"British steam designs were always limited by loading gauge and axle weight restrictions. The Duchesses, the Gresley A4 class and the BR 9F 2-10-0 heavy freight locomotives probably represented the ultimate possible power from traditional designs based on one boiler mounted above the running gear."

I think 'Duke of Gloucester' since restoration ranks fairly high-up on the list for ultimate possible power doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:20 AM

Yes, the Duke was a superb piece of restoration. It was a real fairy tale in preservation. I saw so many locos in the sad state at Barry. Now nearly 40 years later such optimism for the future and so many success stories....Wonderful

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: HuwG
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 05:39 PM

Ooops, clean forgot about the Duke. Disappointing in BR service, it took the restoration people to spot the design or construction flaws. It now easily belts out 3,000 hp. (The Thompson A2 class did the same, and the Duchesses supposedly recorded 3,300 hp on rather contrived tests with the designer, Stanier, in attendance. I don't know what the new Peppercorn locomotive "Tornado" does, but it is limited to 90 mph in Britain.)

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:31 PM

The large amount of historical infrastructure in the shape of bridges, tunnels etc built to a very restricting standard (ref "loading gauge" above)has meant that British engines could never be built to the scale allowed by unfettered continental railways. This probably explains why individual engines don't rate in the "world" charts. Extra power would be supplied where necessary by doubling up engines (as in the "banking" example above), or even tripling.

The same limitations mean that the double-decker commuter trains found in the rest of the world cannot solve the over-crowding problems on UK lines.

Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 06:01 AM

A railway which evokes huge nostalgia despite having been closed for over 74 years is the Lynton and Barnstaple in Devon UK

No locos survived - despite the tantalising myth of one in Brazil - however two new builds are under way. If and when completed they will together represent 40% of the original motive power of the line

one 2-6-2T is well under way at the ffestiniog Lyd

the other 2-4-2T is a rebuild of the only Baldwin loco on the line - Lyn

This is becoming quite an industry !

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Phot
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 11:41 AM

Sorry Huw, but all mainline steam in the UK is limited to 75 mph, although most would be happy to run higher than that.

Just as a little aside, if a 9f was running at 90 mph (It has been known! Including a fantastic run with the Red Dragon Express), the driving wheels (5 foot Diameter) would be turning at 8 revs a Second!! Anyone fancy calculating the acceleration of the pistons?

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Paul Burke
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 12:20 PM

8 revs/ sec = 8Hz = 50.27 rad/sec = w. Stroke = Sm = 710mm = 0.71m (Wikipedia).

Position = Sm*sin(wt)
Velocity = dp/dt = w*Sm*cos(wt)

Max velocity when cos(wt) = 1
= 50.27*0.71 = 35.5m/sec.

Acceleration = dV/dt = -sq(w)*Sm*sin(wt)

Maximum is when sin(wt) = 1

|Maximum acceleration| = sq(50.27)*0.71*1 = 1794 metres per square second.

183 times gravity.

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Paul Burke
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 12:21 PM

Sorry, halve that.

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Phot
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 12:26 PM

Piston stroke is 28 inches, 14 inches acceleration, 14 deceleration. Whats that in mph?

Sorry for being thick Paul!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Paul Burke
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 12:42 PM

You can't measure acceleration in mph, that's a speed. Try miles per square hour!

A quick confurble makes 17.8m/s about 40mph, and the acceleration about seven and a half million miles per hour per hour, or 0-60 in thirty thousandths of a second.

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Mr Fox
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:42 PM

I was wondering what was the largest UK locomotive, and if somebody can link to photos


Big Bertha??

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:39 AM

"Mr Fox - I was wondering what was the largest UK locomotive, and if somebody can link to photos" - I think the question's already been answered:


"The largest ever locomotive used in Britain was Gresley's solitary U1, a 2-8-0+0-8-2 Garrett used as a banking locomotive on the Worsborough Incline between Barnsley and Penistone, both in Yorkshire. See the Wikipedia article"

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:49 AM

Not the largest in use in Britain but the huge Beyer-Garratts
were built in Gorton, Manchester. The one on display in the Manchester museum of science and industry is a monster and, I think, the last one made at Gorton. If I remember rightly it served it's time in South Africa and was shipped back specialy for teh museum.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Another new steam loco!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:50 AM

Ahhh - should have followed the link further. This is the one I was on about.

D.