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Eddi Reader - Undervalued?

Related threads:
Chord Req: Falling Backwards by Eddi Reader (4)
Chord Req: Eddi Reader- Follow My Tears (14)
Review: Songs of Robert Burns (Eddi Reader) (27)
Eddi Reader (23)


Lizzie Cornish 1 21 Nov 09 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Chris Murray 21 Nov 09 - 01:04 PM
michaelr 21 Nov 09 - 01:10 PM
John MacKenzie 21 Nov 09 - 01:17 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 21 Nov 09 - 01:33 PM
michaelr 21 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM
Grampus 21 Nov 09 - 02:17 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Nov 09 - 02:31 PM
GUEST 21 Nov 09 - 02:37 PM
Dave Hanson 21 Nov 09 - 02:56 PM
Silas 21 Nov 09 - 03:10 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 21 Nov 09 - 03:16 PM
Silas 21 Nov 09 - 03:20 PM
Jack Blandiver 21 Nov 09 - 04:54 PM
Joe Offer 21 Nov 09 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Chris Murray 21 Nov 09 - 06:19 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 21 Nov 09 - 08:33 PM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 21 Nov 09 - 08:46 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 21 Nov 09 - 09:27 PM
Little Hawk 21 Nov 09 - 09:38 PM
Abdul The Bul Bul 21 Nov 09 - 09:45 PM
Cuilionn 21 Nov 09 - 09:49 PM
Little Hawk 21 Nov 09 - 09:59 PM
Little Hawk 21 Nov 09 - 10:00 PM
Joe Offer 21 Nov 09 - 10:23 PM
catspaw49 21 Nov 09 - 10:32 PM
GUEST,999 21 Nov 09 - 10:34 PM
Soldier boy 21 Nov 09 - 10:40 PM
GUEST,999 21 Nov 09 - 10:44 PM
Joe Offer 21 Nov 09 - 10:50 PM
RTim 21 Nov 09 - 11:02 PM
GUEST 21 Nov 09 - 11:03 PM
GUEST,999 21 Nov 09 - 11:10 PM
michaelr 22 Nov 09 - 02:24 AM
The Villan 22 Nov 09 - 02:44 AM
Joe Offer 22 Nov 09 - 03:28 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 22 Nov 09 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 22 Nov 09 - 04:37 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 22 Nov 09 - 04:41 AM
Will Fly 22 Nov 09 - 05:19 AM
GUEST,Guest John Hartford 22 Nov 09 - 07:16 AM
Jack Blandiver 22 Nov 09 - 07:21 AM
The Borchester Echo 22 Nov 09 - 07:23 AM
GUEST,Chris Murray 22 Nov 09 - 07:25 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 22 Nov 09 - 07:40 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 22 Nov 09 - 08:02 AM
Stu 22 Nov 09 - 09:17 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 22 Nov 09 - 12:50 PM
GUEST,Nelly 22 Nov 09 - 01:14 PM
Folkiedave 22 Nov 09 - 01:34 PM
The Borchester Echo 22 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM
Folkiedave 22 Nov 09 - 01:56 PM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 22 Nov 09 - 02:19 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 22 Nov 09 - 04:29 PM
akenaton 22 Nov 09 - 04:32 PM
michaelr 22 Nov 09 - 05:28 PM
GUEST,999 22 Nov 09 - 05:46 PM
Little Hawk 22 Nov 09 - 05:53 PM
michaelr 22 Nov 09 - 08:32 PM
Matt_R 22 Nov 09 - 09:55 PM
Effsee 22 Nov 09 - 10:43 PM
melodeonboy 23 Nov 09 - 03:15 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 23 Nov 09 - 03:49 AM
Mavis Enderby 23 Nov 09 - 04:08 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Nov 09 - 04:09 AM
Zen 23 Nov 09 - 04:22 AM
GUEST,Chris Murray 23 Nov 09 - 04:51 AM
evansakes 23 Nov 09 - 05:15 AM
GUEST,Chris Murray 23 Nov 09 - 06:06 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 23 Nov 09 - 06:38 AM
melodeonboy 23 Nov 09 - 07:47 AM
Smedley 23 Nov 09 - 08:03 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 23 Nov 09 - 08:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Nov 09 - 08:09 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 23 Nov 09 - 08:15 AM
Spleen Cringe 23 Nov 09 - 08:18 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 23 Nov 09 - 08:21 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 23 Nov 09 - 08:25 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 23 Nov 09 - 08:30 AM
Dave Hanson 23 Nov 09 - 08:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Nov 09 - 08:59 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 23 Nov 09 - 09:22 AM
Dave Hanson 23 Nov 09 - 09:28 AM
Abdul The Bul Bul 23 Nov 09 - 09:30 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Nov 09 - 10:32 AM
Ruth Archer 23 Nov 09 - 10:34 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 23 Nov 09 - 10:48 AM
catspaw49 23 Nov 09 - 10:57 AM
Folkiedave 23 Nov 09 - 10:57 AM
Jack Campin 23 Nov 09 - 11:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Nov 09 - 11:11 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 23 Nov 09 - 11:16 AM
Ruth Archer 23 Nov 09 - 11:31 AM
The Borchester Echo 23 Nov 09 - 11:36 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 23 Nov 09 - 12:06 PM
Folkiedave 23 Nov 09 - 12:17 PM
Dave Sutherland 23 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 23 Nov 09 - 02:00 PM
The Borchester Echo 23 Nov 09 - 02:31 PM
catspaw49 23 Nov 09 - 02:36 PM
Will Fly 23 Nov 09 - 02:36 PM
Will Fly 23 Nov 09 - 02:37 PM
catspaw49 23 Nov 09 - 02:38 PM
catspaw49 23 Nov 09 - 02:39 PM
Will Fly 23 Nov 09 - 02:42 PM
melodeonboy 23 Nov 09 - 02:51 PM
Stu 23 Nov 09 - 02:54 PM
Smedley 23 Nov 09 - 02:58 PM
John MacKenzie 23 Nov 09 - 03:15 PM
Smedley 23 Nov 09 - 03:18 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 23 Nov 09 - 03:35 PM
The Borchester Echo 23 Nov 09 - 03:39 PM
GUEST,Guest John Hartford 23 Nov 09 - 03:46 PM
Mavis Enderby 23 Nov 09 - 04:01 PM
Zen 23 Nov 09 - 04:58 PM
The Villan 23 Nov 09 - 05:04 PM
Jack Campin 23 Nov 09 - 05:10 PM
The Villan 23 Nov 09 - 05:31 PM
Ruth Archer 23 Nov 09 - 05:32 PM
The Villan 23 Nov 09 - 05:42 PM
Joe Offer 23 Nov 09 - 05:58 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 23 Nov 09 - 06:09 PM
The Villan 23 Nov 09 - 06:11 PM
The Villan 23 Nov 09 - 06:16 PM
The Villan 23 Nov 09 - 06:29 PM
The Borchester Echo 23 Nov 09 - 07:47 PM
Folkiedave 23 Nov 09 - 07:47 PM
Ruth Archer 23 Nov 09 - 07:50 PM
Joe Offer 23 Nov 09 - 08:21 PM
The Borchester Echo 23 Nov 09 - 08:24 PM
Joe Offer 23 Nov 09 - 09:07 PM
Silas 24 Nov 09 - 02:54 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 09 - 03:59 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 09 - 04:00 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 09 - 04:03 AM
Dave Hanson 24 Nov 09 - 04:12 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 09 - 04:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Nov 09 - 05:02 AM
Smedley 24 Nov 09 - 05:16 AM
Dave Hanson 24 Nov 09 - 06:10 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 09 - 06:13 AM
Smedley 24 Nov 09 - 06:18 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 09 - 06:20 AM
Mr Happy 24 Nov 09 - 06:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Nov 09 - 06:39 AM
Dave Hanson 24 Nov 09 - 07:53 AM
Stu 24 Nov 09 - 09:10 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Nov 09 - 09:12 AM
Dave Hanson 24 Nov 09 - 09:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Nov 09 - 05:31 PM
Folkiedave 24 Nov 09 - 05:34 PM
GUEST 24 Nov 09 - 05:46 PM
Stu 25 Nov 09 - 03:25 AM
Dave Hanson 25 Nov 09 - 03:35 AM
Smedley 25 Nov 09 - 03:45 AM
John MacKenzie 25 Nov 09 - 04:31 AM
melodeonboy 25 Nov 09 - 04:34 AM
Jack Blandiver 25 Nov 09 - 04:42 AM
Dave Hanson 25 Nov 09 - 06:51 AM
Stu 25 Nov 09 - 07:04 AM
Smedley 25 Nov 09 - 07:09 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Nov 09 - 07:39 AM
Jack Campin 25 Nov 09 - 07:44 AM
Dave Hanson 25 Nov 09 - 08:07 AM
Folkiedave 25 Nov 09 - 08:08 AM
John MacKenzie 25 Nov 09 - 08:49 AM
Dave Hanson 25 Nov 09 - 08:54 AM
Folkiedave 25 Nov 09 - 08:56 AM
The Villan 25 Nov 09 - 09:17 AM
Will Fly 25 Nov 09 - 10:07 AM
Stu 25 Nov 09 - 10:18 AM
John MacKenzie 25 Nov 09 - 10:21 AM
Dave Hanson 25 Nov 09 - 10:22 AM
Chris Green 25 Nov 09 - 11:47 AM
John MacKenzie 25 Nov 09 - 11:58 AM
Stu 25 Nov 09 - 11:58 AM
TheSnail 25 Nov 09 - 12:08 PM
Chris Green 25 Nov 09 - 01:26 PM
Folkiedave 25 Nov 09 - 01:29 PM
John MacKenzie 25 Nov 09 - 02:05 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 25 Nov 09 - 02:08 PM
Dave the Gnome 25 Nov 09 - 08:15 PM
The Villan 26 Nov 09 - 02:48 AM
Dave Hanson 26 Nov 09 - 08:20 AM
Ruth Archer 26 Nov 09 - 08:34 AM
Folkiedave 26 Nov 09 - 08:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Nov 09 - 02:29 PM
Mavis Enderby 26 Nov 09 - 02:58 PM
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Subject: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 12:09 PM

This lady is a superb singer and interpreter of all kinds of songs..

'Simple Soul' - Eddi and Boo

'Footsteps Fall' - Eddi and Boo again....beautiful words...

Ae Fond Kiss - Eddi...and Robert Burns :0)

Personally, I think she's undervalued by not only the folk world, but the music world in general.

Absolutely beautiful, Eddi! :0)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:04 PM

What an odd thing to say. What makes you think she's undervalued? She's been around for yonks and is a very well-respected singer. She plays to appreciative crowds at numerous festivals. Her concerts sell out. She's sold countless numbers of CDs, played with some of the best folk artists in the universe and has an MBE. She's won shedloads of folk awards and has had at least one number 1 single.

I reckon she's greatly valued.

Can't stand her myself!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:10 PM

Eddi is valued highly by me. I've got her new CD on order and can't wait for it to get here!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:17 PM

Lizzie, I'm afraid you're way behind in your enthusiasm, or have you never heard of Fairground Attraction?
Eddi has been a 'weel ken't' face around these parts for quite a while.
She's also posted in here a few time.
I'm glad that your enthusiasm has moved away from the over-rated SOH, but I fear for 'Big Edna' if you espouse her cause.

JM


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:33 PM

Of course I've heard of Fairground Attraction, John.

And thanks for the kind comments about SoH and me daring to be enthusiastic. Peronsally, I feel your words are completely out of order there.

I've merely been watching many of Eddi's videos this afternoon...and found her to be a wonderful artist. Her songs are very moving.

Please don't try and suppress my feelings about music that I love, as I would never do that to you.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM

Factoid: ER was at one time a backup singer for Annie Lennox in Eurythmics.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Grampus
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:17 PM

Overvalued ??


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:31 PM

"Overvalued ?? "
Yup - certainly is.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:37 PM

She sings a very good duet with Julie Fowlis on JF's new album.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:56 PM

All Eddie Reader needed was to be discovered by Lizzie Cornish to make her career truly successful, well done Lizzie.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Silas
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 03:10 PM

Eddie who??


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 03:16 PM

Why are you all so damn nasty all the time? Does it make you happy?
I truly don't understand some people on here, who seem to visit this site purely to get their kicks by kicking others, be they musicians or other posters...

It just shows me the meaness, and unhappiness, in their souls.

And now, back to Eddi Reader, who, it seems is not favoured by some folkies on here, who are going out of their way to be spiteful.

The only people you show up, and harm, are yourselves.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Silas
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 03:20 PM

Just adding a little balance - thats all.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 04:54 PM

Did you see her in Your Cheatin' Heart back in - 1990?? A John Byrne classic about the Glasgow C&W scene. There was classic scene involving line-dancing Hell's Angels at one point.

Don't let the bastards grind you down, Lizzie - on any other thread such comments would have been censured within minutes of them being posted.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 06:06 PM

Well, am I allowed to say that I don't care for Eddi Reader's music? In most of the recordings I viewed, like Simple Soul, it sounded like she was straining her voice to sing, and it made me have a strained feeling in my throat. She sings in a more relaxed fashion on My Love is Like a Red Red Rose, and that sounds much better to me.

Still, I guess I'd say she's a pretty good singer. Her music is very commercially viable, for those who go for music according to its commercial viability.

So, anyhow, Lizzie, you've attracted some negative responses here, and I'm wondering why. I think it's because you talk a different language from most of the rest of us. You look on music as a marketable commodity, and most of the rest of us look on music as - music. For most of us, it doesn't matter whether Eddi Reader is popular or underrated or whatever. All we care about is her musicianship and the quality of the songs she chooses to sing. Her marketability doesn't interest us at all, and we get irritable when people start talking to us about music as a commodity. Primarily, music is something we make, not something we buy. If you discuss music from a fan perspective, then you speak a language that we do not wish to speak.

Mudcat is not primarily a fan site - it's a site for musicians, and musicians often get annoyed by fan talk. So, if you insist on talking about music as a marketable commodity, you'll find a lot of negative response to what you have to say. I suppose that's why there are so many negative comments in the thread about Sing Out! Magazine. The magazine is too fan-oriented for many of us musicians.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 06:19 PM

What Joe said.

I don't particularly like Eddie Reader (too much wailing!) but I know that lots of people do like her and that's fine. I'm not arguing or being nasty - just pointing out that she's not undervalued. Not at all.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 08:33 PM

Oh, OK then Joe....I'll go and leave you er...'musicians' to it.


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Subject: Is folk music killing itself?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 08:46 PM

This is my final thread on Mudcat, after being told that I don't see music in the same way as you 'musicians'...and being kind of lambasted for daring to say I thought Eddi Reader had the most beautiful voice..


So....

It's my belief that those who whinge on about folk music not getting coverage, support etc..are actually a huge part of the problem, because when the music DOES get support, yes, even from idiots like me, you all jump up and down saying you don't want to hear nice things being said about yourselves....(Show of Hands, are you listening too?)

So you have your wish.

I'll stop talking about it.   I'll stop reading what others say about it...and the whole damn world of folk music can kill itself off quietly and become nothing more than what a few folk do on a Saturday night in the privacy of their own home, where no-one will see them, or praise them, or dare to say one single nice word about them.

In short, you want a closed world where 'the likes of me' ain't invited in.

You have it.


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 09:27 PM

Alive - Vibrant - Happy to report that "Pro-Creation" amongst the "folk universe" is working well..in the New World.

Sorry to read about death on the islands.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

font color=greed>Look Lady....I will give you five....for the five times I have recently usurped upon your territory...BUT...don't start your BS in My Kingdom....above the line.


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 09:38 PM

Dang! That is the first time I've ever seen something written in "greed" font, Gargoyle. I didn't even know there was a font for greed. ;-D


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 09:45 PM

Well I've been around Mudcat for quite a while and hadn't realised it was for musicians.
I sing in my own way, play the guitar, mandolin, and am learning the bouzouki. I can pick out a tune on the penny whistle and I know what the dots mean on the page.
I like most styles of music but I seem to prefer folk music.
I would never call myself a musician though.
I think Eddie Reader is great and as I've seen her on Transatlantic Sessions which to me is a gathrering of real musicians, I'd think she was respected in the 'trade'.
Sometimes you lot are really up your own bums.
You shouldn't go Lizzie, I saw your other thread.
Al


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Cuilionn
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 09:49 PM

While most of her work is a bit more "pop" than my usual choices, here's what I really admire about Eddi: her own story and her willingness to delve into--even relearn--a bit of her own musical/cultural heritage, and then to share what she's still--by self-profession--in the process of learning.

I tend to gravitate towards music that presents the stories/experience of Common Folk in all their unvarnished, rough-edged pain and sorrow and passion and glory. Sometimes I hear a hint of that in Eddi's music, and I think some of her Robert Burns interpretations offer much more than a hint. What frustrates me about her recordings is that I find that hint of raw passion and soulful singing so tantilizing that it leaves me hungry for more without offering quite enough to satiate that hunger.

I applaud her recent collaborations with folk artists and hope to hear more of her unplugged/unpacked efforts in years to come.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 09:59 PM

Well, I never knew anything about her before today, but I really like that video where she does "Simple Soul".


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:00 PM

Just listened to "Simple Soul" (watched the video, I mean), and I think it's a lovely performance.


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:23 PM

Shit, you wonder why Lizzie couldn't talk about this in the thread where it began. But anyhow, I think that it's true that folk music will never again be a good way to make money. It had a flash in the pan in the 1950's and 1960's, and then lost its ability to make money. And I am very glad that happened, since real folk music, is music that people make themselves and share with other members of their community. If they can get a gig or sell recordings, that's nice - but they'd better find another way to support their families.

Abdul, you are a musician. If you sing and play two instruments and are learning a third, you are a Musician. You're hooked. A musician is not somebody who makes money - a musician is a person who makes music. And if you make music while sitting in a circle with a dozen other musicians and they enjoy it, then you're a good musician.

So, Lizzie, if the only way to look at music is on your commercial model, then folk music is indeed killing itself. As for me, I'd like to see the commercial model die a horrible, painful death.


-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:32 PM

Damn..........Father JoeBro say "shit".....................weel, shit....................Is this something in Revelations maybe?

Okay Folks, let's all give Lizzie and Joe each a drum!


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:34 PM

"Shit, you wonder why Lizzie couldn't talk about this in the thread where it began."

Nope. YOU wonder why, Joe.


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:40 PM

Is this some kind of private argument ? - 'cause you've all completely lost me in the UK!!


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:44 PM

Don't worry, you aren't lost. It's where you live.


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:50 PM

Not a private argument - but moving the discussion to another thread tends to take it out of context - and that's why I complain about moving to another thread. The discussion started with yet another hype of a commercial musician, Eddi Reader, who may or may not be loosely connected to the folk genre. It didn't have anything to do with Lizzie being "lambasted for daring to say I thought Eddi Reader had the most beautiful voice." That's not something Lizzie could credibly get away with, if she had left the discussion in context.

The thread originator, Lizzie, encountered grumpiness, and couldn't understand why. I explained that the thread viewed music as a commercial commodity instead of just as music, and that's why there was a negative response.

So, the moving of the discussion to a new thread turns the discussion into a personal thing, and I don't see much value in that. By moving the discussion out of context, this thread becomes just another "All About Lizzie" thread. Too bad. Do you think she'll hold true to her promise to never start another thread?

Well, since most of the messages in this thread are about Eddi Reader, I'm going to combine the two and put things in context. Sorry, Lizzie, your bluff has been called.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Is folk music killing itself?
From: RTim
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:02 PM

Very little is going to stop those of us who have been involved for so many years, in so many ways....We are certainly NOT killing it!

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:03 PM

IMHO Eddi Reader is a failed pop star who has turned to folk music as a way of making a living. To me her convenient conversion to all things Burns was just that. Commercially motivated.
I quite like her singing...just wish I could handcuff her hands behind her!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:10 PM

VERY kinky, GUEST.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 02:24 AM

I don't know what makes Lizzie Cornish such a target for despite here at Mudcat. Maybe there are reasons, but I don't see any in this thread.

What I do know is that I am quite surprised - and dismayed - to see our usually calm and equitable Joe Offer come unhinged.

Joe, I thought you were smarter than to create a false dichotomy. Surely no one who calls him/herself a musician got to that point without first being a fan. It's a fundamental prerequisite. If you're inspired to try and make music yourself, it is inevitably because you've heard music that touched you in some way.

If we buy music records or CDs, we partake of "music as a marketable commodity", as Joe termed it. Are we supposed to feel vaguely dirty about it?

I'm a fan of many widely divergent musicians. I am also a performing and recording musician. There is no disconnect there. And I cannot help but feel repeatedly that much of the griping about commercially successful artists here on Mudcat is sour-grapes jealousy from performers with less appeal.

Eddi Reader is a hugely talented singer with an amazing vocal range and great emotional expression. Her collaborations with Boo Hewerdine have yielded transcendent interpretations of brilliant songs. Her album of Burns songs is widely acclaimed and should give her full folk credentials. Please forgive her for not keeping her hands straight down her sides.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Villan
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 02:44 AM

In Fairness Joe, you say Mudcat is not primarily a fan site - it's a site for musicians.
Whilst that may be true, are you making an assumption that all organisers or audience are musicians?

Musicians need organisers and audience, organisers need musicians and audiences and audiences need musicians and organisers. We are all one big team or family.

In my case I am not a musician and I have never sung at a folk club, but I do organise musical events in the folk world.
Likewise there are mudcatters who just go to events, but do not sing or play, but go becuase they love the companianship, music etc, who in my opinion are fans of Folk Music, but will probably have their favourite performers.

Mudcat is something we value very much. So please don't exclude us :-)

Les


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 03:28 AM

I think I'd like to rephrase what I said above - Mudcat is a music site, not a fan site (and not a musicians-only site).

I'm trying to pinpoint what it is about these "Lizzie threads" that always causes such contention, and why I get such a steady stream of demands that Lizzie be barred. Lizzie means well and isn't a bad person, but I think maybe the problem is that Lizzie just doesn't speak the language spoken here, or at all the other music forums she says she's been banned from.
As I read these threads and the contention they cause, they all seem to express views of:

    a. Music as popularity contest
    b. Music as commodity (i.e., making more money and thus proving popularity)
    c. Musicians as objects of veneration (i.e., popularity)

Certainly, there's a place for audience and organizers and agents and all that stuff - but is it about music, or is it about selling more stuff? We've all seen people on the business side of the music industry that are the musical equivalent of used...er, pre-owned car salesmen.
We've also seen fans who are so overbearing in their affection for their "stars" that they scare the poor performers. I remember a couple of fans who showered one group with multiple expensive gifts and flew all over the country to get to every concert - and the musicians felt they were being stalked.
So, it's not about the popularity - it's about the music.

As for Eddi Reader, she's not a bad musician, but in Simple Soul (which is a pretty good song), she sings in a way that seems like she's trying to be Sinead O'Connor. Heck, even Sinead O'Connor doesn't try to sing like Sinead O'Connor any more - and as a result, Sinead is a much better musician than she used to be. In many other videos, it seems that Eddi's trying to affect a folk-pop persona, instead of just singing the song the best she can, like she does in My Love is Like a Red Red Rose.

I've been defending Lizzie for years, and I see no reason why she should leave us. But I think she'd fit more comfortably here if she'd simply learn to speak the language, that it's the music that matters, not the popularity or the hype.

Now if you are a follower of the musical Wicked, you know that to Glinda, the Good Witch of the South, the most important think in life is to be Popular. But the rest of us know that Glinda's pursuit of popularity is shallow. It's just not where it's at, and it leaves other people talking behind your back. It's the music, silly. That's what we're here for. But don't leave us, Lizzie - just learn the language. I suppose there's a place for popularity - I don't mind the fact that the I'm the father of the leader of a band that has 4,900 YouTube Videos (Eddi Reader has 337). But I also know that band members have a certain contempt for the popularity, because it gets in the way of the music.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:30 AM

Joe, I will never speak *your* language, because I am not you. I respect that you, and others, speak in their own language, and I have never tried to get them barred, banned or sent to elocution lessons to learn to speak *my* way.

But...I am me. I write the way I write and I always will do, without restrictions...and if that means people banning me, then so be it, ban me.

I love music in the way that *****I***** love it...and I KNOW that I can sometimes set people on fire emotionally with the way I write about music, to the point where they'll go and buy the music too...

I don't have an ulterior motive here. I don't have Show of Hands pyjamas, nor a Seth Lakeman duvet, or Eddi Reader posters around my wall.

I'm just as happy talking about George Papavgeris as I am about Steve Knightley's music.....and I recall that when I *did* write about George's music, on the BBC, someone from the music industry (as in a critic) came on and said how delighted they were to see George's music getting the recognition it so deserved, that *he* so deserved!

I am NOT some silly, stupid fan who tracks bands all over the world...and it always made me fume at how those who've tried so hard to ban my voice used this in their own campaign, making those I did write about feel uncomfortable.

John's comment above illustrates this perfectly...when he said that he now fears for Eddi's career if I'm going to start enthusing about her..I mean???? What the fuck is that about, John?   

It's called suppression.

It's called making someone feel so shit about writing about music, and making the artist concerned feel so scared, that nothing gets mentioned again.

Well, Joe..as you well know, I've learnt to over-ride all of the crap they've thrown at me over the years...and you know well that they've thrown bucketloads at me. They track me, they keep their eyes on the BBC board all the f'ing time, waiting for me to appear, then taking great delight in getting me zapped.

What the f*ck kind of people are we dealing with here?

When I looked at that board recently, the Show of Hands thread I started way back is back up there again...although, as ever, my name has been removed from the thread, right from the start...and that hurts..it f*cking hurts, because every single word I've ever written on the BBC, and I wrote hundreds of thousands, (which people READ and many enjoyed, because they told me so) have all now had my name removed....

Tell me, if you had written a song, then someone removed your name from it, never let you write another song, without again removing your name, how would you feel?

ALL I ever f*ing did was fall in love with a music so beautiful that it moved me to a thousand places, took me to parts I'd never been before...and it was the MUSIC that forced me to write!!!!!!

I wasn't swooning over Steve and Phil, GEEEEEEZ! I have never even met them! Nor Seth Lakeman either!   But I tried damned hard to get the message about their music out...and whether the artists concerned like it or not, I did exactly that.

They've all been made to feel lousy about that though, by people who are so jealous, so up their own anger by not being the ones in the spotlight that they can't bear others to be...

Yes, Steve and Phil are now going down the traditional music road bigtime, it would seem, and therefore I'm a huge embarrassment to have around, but hey, I was writing about them for near on 6 years, bringing others to their music, and not a word was said,other than could I lay low over 'Witness'...but suddenly, they change paths and I have to be removed from that. ??????

Fair enough, I don't do hypocrisy, so I jumped off the path, bigtime.
But it hurt me to remove every trace of them from my Myspace page, it damned hurt me to remove my blog about their last Royal Albert Hall gig, because that took me ages to write..and I never did get to finish it because I stopped it when personal circumstances took over in their lives, meaning to finish it at a later date.

But I was writing about a whole gig there, about many other artists too.

There's a chap over in the US, a dear man, who takes the music I recommend and always plays it on his radio show. He told me he's never once heard me playing bad music, has always been impressed...and looks to me for inspiring him.

So, the object of their hatred has been to stop me from writing, Joe.

Apparently, *they* can love the music, but *I* can't.

Bugger that.

This music gave my words life! It runs through me, it fills me up, it brings me colours and pictures and happiness..despite all the bad tempered, controlling dingbats out there, who think that only they have a right to write about music.

Eddi Reader inspired me yesterday...and I so wanted to bring her music in here to some who may not have heard it...and I'm pleased to see I did exactly that.

THAT is ALL I have ever been about, Joe. Getting the music out!

So, please, don't bloody patronise me...or give me restrictions, or rules or this or that, or tell me to write YOUR way, because I never will.

Ban me, by all means....if you must...but don't ever tell me HOW to write, because that freedom belongs to me as much as it belongs to you.

I LOVE this music.

So, hang me!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:37 AM

AND.....there are those up their own arses types in the folk world who so bitterly resent anyone who's 'made it' commercially that they will do all they can to suppress conversation about those artists....

They despise those artists coming into the folk world, as can be seen above...saying they are 'using it' for their own ends...

Seth Lakeman and his brothers had this, Cara, Kate (although she was kind of forgiven by some because she didn't sign with Warner Brothers)...Steve Knightley too....

"They are not of 'us'!"

Well, sod 'us'......there is only 'WE', Joe.

And if people make it, if their music becomes deeply loved and appreciated by many, then everyone should be joyful!

I have joy in my soul when I LISTEN to this music. THAT is where my joy comes from. I don't play an instrument, but my ears are my own instrument, because from them, when they are filled with this music, comes *my* own music...and my music is my WORDS!


SHEESH!!

WHY do I always have to justify myself? Why can I not be left free to simply LOVE the music in my own way.

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting."
e. e. cummings


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:41 AM

And to put this thread back on track....

Eddi and John Martyn - 'He Got All The Whiskey'



And yes, Joe....I hear you...."Don't post until four more posts have been posted, Lizzie, your new restrictions!"


Sod being 'restricted'...I'd rather be banned...


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:19 AM

WHY do I always have to justify myself? Why can I not be left free to simply LOVE the music in my own way.

By all means love the music, Lizzie - and good luck to you with your enthusiasms. However, others will disagree, and not necessarily because of any so-called "snobbishness" about being folk or un-folk or anything else. You give the impression of seeing critical phantoms everywhere, as in:

(a) Eddi Reader is a great singer - but...
(b) Eddi Reader is not Top of the Charts or In the Public Eye - so...
(c) Eddi Reader is undervalued - therefore...
(d) Eddi Reader is the victim of - choose your "-ism"

My personal taste is what my personal taste happens to be - but I don't care two hoots if no-one else gets it. It's also perfectly possible to appreciate someone's talent and yet be unmoved by their performance. Here's an example from my own experience: Frank Sinatra. I can absolutely understand his artistry, the superb voice and breath control, the pitching, the interpretation of a song's lyrics, the phrasing, the lowering and heightening of tone, etc., etc. But I can't bear him as a performer and never have done. Simple as that. I used to play in 60s funk/jazz outfit and, with one exception - me - they all loved Sinatra. "Frank" they said in hushed tones when talking about him. And when they talked about him, I just kept silent!

You posted a link to "He Got All The Whiskey". Well, it's a great song but - IMHO - John Martyn and Eddi Reader just about buggered it up. The Bobby Charles original is excellent (written, I believe, about Albert Grossman), but they lose all the irony and grit of the original. But, you see, that's just my view of the track. You have your view. Enjoy - but don't ask me to enjoy it. :-)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Guest John Hartford
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:16 AM

I'm with Michael here.

I too can't see why Lizzie has been targeted

I too am surprised to see the usually calm Joe wade in so strongly.....and IMHO wrongly !!

Not knowing what " a false dichotomy " is I do agree strongly with Michael's point about musicians being inspired both to play and perform by having listened and continuing listening to music and being captivated inspired by it.

Obviously with music having such wide ranges not every one is going to have the indentical tastes.

Like Michael I have been a performing musician and though I no longer play in public I still am an enthuiast.

I too detect the almost hatred of anything and anybody having even the slightest interest in "commercialism".

There appears to be a sense of snobbery attached to enjoying non-commercial music and a belief because of this it is in some way better.

This raises it's head in many of the threads here at Mudkat to a point of boredom.

Music should be enjoyed for what it is and not to create a class division as is often is here.

Just because you don't like something does not make it bad....

I will leave it here on this note before I fall off my soapbox !!

John

Surely to way to value music is by it's sound and not whether is makes money or not.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:21 AM

Sorry, but I don't see Walkaboutsverse as the person needing regulation. If you find him disagreeable, leave him alone. We prohibit personal attacks, not distasteful thinking. It appears that you are far closer to being in violation of Mudcat rules than he is. The fact that a sizable mob at Mudcat has been treating WAV as a scapegoat for a considerable length of time, is no justification for the the continuation of this harassment.
If you don't like his poetry, leave him alone. This self-righteous mob harassing WAV and others, is an embarrassment to Mudcat.


Joe Offer, from the England mu England thread.

So what happens to the sense of this if we substitute LC1 for WAV? Especially in the light, or otherwise, of JO's posts above.

Man, the bullshit piles up to fast on Mudcat you need wings to stay about it!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:23 AM

I too can't see why Lizzie has been targeted

Course you can't. She leapt up onto her "look at me, I'm a victim" bandwagon all by herself.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:25 AM

Nobody doubts that you love the music, Lizzie - and you can't decide not to listen to the music just because you don't enjoy it in the same way as some other people do. Is it possible to stop listening to the music just because someone here said something nasty to you.

But this thread wasn't about Eddie Reader's voice. No-one objected to you saying she has a lovely voice. The thread is entitled "Eddie Reader - Undervalued?" That'a completely different topic.

It's not spite or nastiness, Lizzie. Truly it isn't.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:40 AM

Eddi Reader, undervalued?

I don't think so. She's obviously a good musician, and she's had a successful musical career from that. She's still busy working and I'm sure she does alright from it. But I don't personally think she's a musical Van Gogh or anything.

Even so, no harm in refreshing people's memories either.

Lot's of competent artists out there - who continue to gig and regularly put out albums for their fan-base - that it might be worth 'revisiting' once in a while in order to see what they're up to now.

Sorry to return to topic ;-)
As you were folks..


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 08:02 AM

Oh, missed the new thread addition!

'Is folk music killing itself?'

Hmm, no I don't think it can do that. Though I do think that young and old don't always see eye to eye, as we can bare witness to on certain threads on here. I heard 'Mawkin: Causely' giggling on a radio interview a while back, about keeping well away from the grumpier traddy types who would (we were to understand from the 'naughty' giggling) no doubt be inclined censure some of their interpretations of folk song. And there does seem to be something of a divide there. On the other hand, commercial success could arguably be considered to represent the death knell of any art form, in as much as bar some highly unique and innovative artists, most stuff that is extremely popular also tends to be very bland, formulaic and faceless. And that too perhaps represents a form of 'death' IMO (just consider BritArt).


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Stu
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 09:17 AM

"On the other hand, commercial success could arguably be considered to represent the death knell of any art form, in as much as bar some highly unique and innovative artists, most stuff that is extremely popular also tends to be very bland, formulaic and faceless. And that too perhaps represents a form of 'death' IMO (just consider BritArt)."

Except that BritArt was never anything more than pure marketing; it set out to service a certain consumer group and that was that. Look at Damien Hirst's new paintings; even now those very critics who praised his early work are bleating that the Emperor's got no clothes. No shit sherlock.

I would argue that commercial success for most of the folk artists we know and admire is borne out artistic integrity and commitment to the music rather than them being bigged up from the outset by some corporate marketing machine (even if that happens at some point in their career). We have probably all been to the gigs of big folk names when they were slogging the circuit making a name for themselves through sheer hard work and love of the music.

Lizzie gets a kicking here frequently because of the way she words her posts. Her comments are no more or less relevant than anyone else's regardless of whether she's a singer, listener or musician. It's just part of the Mudcat feeding frenzy, and it's not too pretty to watch.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 12:50 PM

Eddi....another thread (and a very nice one too)

The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:23 AM

I too can't see why Lizzie has been targeted

Course you can't. She leapt up onto her "look at me, I'm a victim" bandwagon all by herself. <<<

I have only ever been yours (and your pals) prey, Diane, *never* a victim.

Mawkin Causley are nice lads, CS...and Jim Causley has the best giggle in town, as well as the best hug.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Nelly
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:14 PM

Personally, and in my extremely humble opinion as a non-musician but never-the-less music lover, I don't think ER is an especially wonderful singer and the 'affected' way she has about her when singing puts me off watching her too. The best song I've ever heard her do is Wild Mountainside, which I sometimes sing in folk clubs but without the waily waily ending. It's the song i enjoy, not ER singing it. I'm sure if I heard someone else sing the song it would be even better.

Eddie Reader undervalued? Don't think so.

Nelly


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:34 PM

This is my final thread on Mudcat, after being told that I don't see music in the same way as you 'musicians'...and being kind of lambasted for daring to say I thought Eddi Reader had the most beautiful voice..

For those not aware - Lizzie has a pattern of behaviour over the years since her first ever post. For pointing out this pattern I shall be accused of....well it doesn't matter really since she has promised this will be her last thread.........again.

The pattern invariably ends "This is my final thread on Mudcat" or "This is my final ever post on Mudcat" or something similar. One thing is for certain. She says it is final, but it never is.

She has over the years (amongst others) accused highly experienced radio producers, lawyers, teachers, NHS professionals, festival organisers, musicians etc etc of not knowing what they are talking about. She has heaped vituperative nonsense on all sorts of people. All of whom have been remarkably tolerant in patiently explaining why they felt her view might just be mistaken, because they themselves actually knew what they were talking about and hadn't just got their information from the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Wikipedia etc etc.. Their reward has been reiteration of the original horlicks.

If all of Lizzies posts are considered together, rather than individual threads taken in isolation, she is one of the most aggressive posters on Mudcat, constantly shouting and swearing and regularly attacking other posters for daring to disagree with her or to present an alternative to her dystopian view of present-day Britain.

She tells us that this is how she conducts herself in real life as well, with her regular reports of the latest person whom she's lost her rag with or the latest job she's flounced out of, the latest person she has reported to a higher authority, all because the rest of the world simply refuses to see things her way. While doing this and telling us all about it afterwards might make her feel better in the moment, it is hard to understand how such behaviour is at all productive.

If someone is going to persistently indulge in that kind of behaviour, and start thread after thread with half-cocked, inflammatory posts full of inconsistencies, paranoia, misleading statements and gross exaggerations, it is not bullying for the rest of the community to point out that the poster is, in fact, spouting bollocks. If the poster spouts an awful lot of bollocks, then expect the number of responses to be in proportion to the amount of bollocks produced. That's not bullying. Lizzie is an agitator, not a victim.

Sorry for the thread drift - but it needed saying.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM

Ms Reader is a mainstream popsinger who does one or two f*lk-tinged numbers. Her profile is quite high enough and has been for a very long time before lizziecornish "discovered" her. And so it is with all these "finds" she goes on to lionise and embarrass at inordinate length while adding not one iota of insight or new information to the public profile of artists that the rest of us have all known about for ever.

Ms Cornish victimises herself because she likes nothing better than jumping up and hanging herself up on a metaphorical crucifix and wailing - much in the style of her latest idol - that nobody listens to what she says. That's because she has nothing of any value to convey, just endless torrents of hyped up sycophancy ranging down to complete garbage through a tedious gamut of subjects whether she knows anything about them or, most commonly, not.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:56 PM

Anz in case anyone thinks I made it up...........

From: Lizzie Cornish - PM
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:36 PM

I feel nothing anymore for any of you. Not hatred, not anger, not disgust, just a complete and utter void. You are all of no consequence or meaning to me anymore, whatsoever.

You do not love this music as I do, you merely use it to abuse, belittle and bully. But, it is your freedom to do that...and so I will leave you to it. I hope you will all be very happy together on your new fun and lively board. I wish you all well.

And now, from my point of view, there is nothing further I want to say in here....but I'm sure you have more venom to spit out, so....I will let you do just that.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 02:19 PM

This thread is about Eddi Reader.

You wanna bash me, (again, as you always, obsessively do), then please start your own thread to do that in, Dave, and take Diane with you.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:29 PM

"Sorry for the thread drift - but it needed saying."

FolkieDave: no offense but no it really didn't. IMO you don't need to patronise the board by repeatedly explaining to everyone at length what a pain LizzieC is. She pisses you and others off, I got that many months ago. We all know why LC annoys people - she's got an OTT manner and no-doubt there's all kinds of goodies I could look up on the now infamous BBC Boards if I gave a shit, but guess what - I don't give a shit! If you think she's an attention seeker, don't give it to her. Simple as. No wonder she claims she's got an effing "following". Anyway, that's the last thing I'm ever going to say about it. Have a nice night all, I'm off to do something less boring instead, like watch trashy TV.. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:32 PM

I agree with GUEST who called big Edna a failed pop singer trying to make a nest for herself in "modern" traditional music.
In saying that I know many who enjoy what she produces and she has become a bit of a minor celebrity in her native Scotland.

Worryingly, over the years, I am finding myself more and more in accord with the views of our leader Joe Offer, especially his views expressed on this thread on the subject of folk/traditional music and how promotion and marketing can change it from a genre full of emotion and nuance, into just another mode of entertainment,


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:28 PM

Hudreds of threads, and the same old posts over and over again.

All you naysayers remind me of the old fogies who poo-poohed The Beatles when they first appearded, saying stupid things like "That's not music, that's just noise" and the like.

Time marches on, and nothing stays the same. There isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Get used to it, and fer chrissakes stop whining about it.

There's plenty of wonderful music being made by folks younger than you. To enjoy it, all you need is an open mind. Which is a commodity in short supply at Mudcat, unfortunately.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:46 PM

Well said, michaelr. Both posts.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:53 PM

"There's plenty of wonderful music being made by folks younger than you. To enjoy it, all you need is an open mind."

Dead right, michael.

Anyway, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about here on this thread...but I do have a creative idea for what we could do about it.

Let's ALL threaten to leave Mudcat once and for all if our specific desires are not met here! Then we'll have emotional blackmail going every which way, everyone will get those pent-up hostile feelings off their chests, and that should spin this thread out to at least 20,000 more posts with no trouble at all. ;-)

Oh, and may I mention as an aside (paid political announcement): Vote for Chongo in 2012!!! It's only 3 years away, you know. If you're not an American citizen, send money anyway to the American Primate Party...329 Tarzana Avenue, Santa Cruz, California. In lieu of money, send fresh bananas. No contribution whether large or small will be refused!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 08:32 PM

Thanks for the supportive voices; it's good to know my POV is not a lonely one.

For those who like Eddi, here's part 1 of a three-part documentary from 1992. Made long before she did her best work, it shows her already to be a mature and passionate performer.

I completely disagree with Joe Offer about Simple Soul. There's not a hint in Eddi's singing of Sinead O'Connor's strained, nasal tones. ER radiates warmth, emotion and, as the song says, a simple soul. One of Boo's best, and a perfect collaboration.

Lizzie above linked to the thread I started in 2002 when I first heard Eddi Reader. My wonderment has not abated since. I encourage you all to seek out more of her music. It is honest, direct, and from the heart.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Matt_R
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 09:55 PM

I love Eddi Reader. My wife and I had our first dance to Fairground Attraction's "Allelujah" at our wedding last month.

I also love the Trashcan Sinatras, which feature both her brother and her longtime boyfriend.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Effsee
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 10:43 PM

Sorry, I admit to being... GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:03 PM

Lost my cookie somehow!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:15 AM

"There's plenty of wonderful music being made by folks younger than you. To enjoy it, all you need is an open mind."

Er....yes. It's difficult to disagree with that as it stands, but I can't quite see the relevance of it to Eddi Reader. She is 50, you know! Or is the above comment aimed only at the over 50s?

PLease clarify!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:49 AM

Thanks for that link, michael..I hadn't arrived at that one yet.

So, Eddi's story is almost a folk song in itself. I'm watching Part 1 at the moment, where she's talking about her young life, growing up in the slums of Glasgow..but still feeling so happy, surrounded by a strong community...and then....they knocked the whole lot down.

They left the church however, standing proud in the middle of nowhere..with the new motorway dwarfing it.

And there's Eddi standing outside it, her arms outstretched, saying she can't really understand why they left the church there, because....and she throws her arms out at this point..."*where* is your congregation?"


This lady has had the toughest start in life, yet a warm family surrounding her all the time..and she's talking about how the whole family sang, all the time.....and she can't remember ever wanting to be anything *but* a singer.

I'm so glad she got her wish! :0)

And I've no problem with the way Eddi uses her arms when she sings, but I do have a real problem with people who seem to want others to be like robots and not move at all whilst they sing or talk. To me that is totally unnatural. I cannot speak without moving my arms and hands. For their information, many of us have arms which are deeply connected to our thoughts, and they are as much our voice as our vocal chords are.

She's a warm, expressive, thoughtful person, and I'd recommend everyone to watch the video that michael has linked to a few posts above this.

Thanks, michael! :0)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:08 AM

I've never quite understood the "failed pop singer" label that seems to get attached to Eddi Reader - I would expect that the success of Fairground Attraction means she's got the financial security to do what she wants - and it looks like she is. Fair play to her...

Pete.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:09 AM

Yukkkkkkk
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Zen
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:22 AM

This thread is about Eddi Reader.

Amen to that!

Eddi Reader is excellent and always has been (IMHO of course).


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:51 AM

The thread is actually about whether Eddie Reader is undervalued. I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: evansakes
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:15 AM

Eddi Reader....a "failed pop singer" chancing to jump on the folk "gravy train"?

Or a folk-roots singer willingly accepting a small bit of commercial success when it came her way?

Me? I couldn't give a hoot either way! I'd contend she's a national treasure though and is always likely to put a smile on people's faces wherever she goes. I was not alone in being moved to tears when she duetted with Karen Matheson and Capercaillie on 'Ae Fond Kiss' at Cambridge a few years ago.

She was back again this year....and even led a "folk" workshop.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/cambridgefolkfestival/2009/folk-workshop/


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:06 AM

Yes, the duet with Karen Matheson was memorable. There's no doubt that Eddie Reader is one of the most hard-working people in music.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:38 AM

"The thread is actually about whether Eddie Reader is undervalued. I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued."

Well I'd say that Eddi is only valued by those with open minds.

This thread has proved, yet again, that any singer who dares to have any form of commercial success is looked down upon by those who feel folk music should only be sung 'amongst us' in back rooms or tents.

You know, this thread has made me remember one of the strangest threads on the BBC. It was about Barbara Dickson...and I think I started it, although I can't recall exactly, as it was years back.

Well, I dared to say I loved Barbara's voice and suddenly, down flew The Dimentors....how they verbally kicked and abused her...And the strangest thing of all was when Ian Anderson came over to the thread, saying to me that even though we disagreed so vehemently about so many things, he was asking me really nicely to back off on this thread and leave it alone.   ????????

I think Barbara's producer may have come into the thread, again, I'm not exactly sure, so don't quote me on that.....And I sat there wondering what the hell was happening. The thread was taking the course that Barbara had chosen to go away from the folk scene, had then made it mega big time..and now, she was trying to get back into the folk scene again....And BOY, was that being frowned upon!

WHO are these people? What is wrong with them? WHY would they want to try to ensure that positive discussion of a person like Barbara Dickson would be smeared with this jealous, nasty, spiteful attitude all the time.

It is one thing to not like someone's music, as we all love different things, but in my book, it is a whole other thing to try and deliberately damage someone's career or make them feel bad about themselves...and I will never stop defending someone, if I see that happening.

Eddi is saying on this documentary (see michael's post).....about how she struggled terribly with the glitz and glamour of the pop world...of how she had to almost parade in front of Annie Lennox, when she was a backing singer for her, in different crazy outfits, when all she wanted to do was put on her jeans and a t shirt and sing her heart out.


Eddi's myspace

Barbara Dickson's myspace

Eddi's 'Bell Book and Candle' - beautiful!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 07:47 AM

"Well I'd say that Eddi is only valued by those with open minds."

Vintage LC!

The sub-text is that if you don't happen to like what LC likes, then you are closed-minded. I've been here before!

For what it's worth, I don't particularly enjoy Eddi's stuff. Firstly, that does not automatically make me closed-minded, and secondly, it doesn't really affect the focus of this thread.

Chris Murray's comment, "I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued", makes perfect sense and is a fitting conclusion to this thread.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Smedley
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:03 AM

I think Lizzie C is a camp icon.

More than Eddi Reader could ever hope to be.

This probably isn't very constructive.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:07 AM

"Vintage LC!
The sub-text is that if you don't happen to like what LC likes, then you are closed-minded."

Lollers!
Yep, she sure is good at it..

Eddi Reader is alright, but frankly it's all a wee bit too boring for me to get excited over. Err, in fact I tend to find most folk-pop dull and lack-lustre but hey, that's me. Call me small-minded if you like!

Are 'Les Negresses Vertes' considered 'folk'? I've been revisiting their music this weekend, and stuff by Gogol Bordello. Undervalued? I dunno, but it's a real blast.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:09 AM

Short extracts from Wikipedia - the font of all knowledge. If you want any more you can sing it yourself:-)

In 1988 the band signed to RCA/BMG records and released their first single, "Perfect", which became a UK number one, winning best single at the 1989 BRIT Awards. Their first album, The First of a Million Kisses, was also a success, reaching number two in the UK Albums Chart, and winning best album at the 1989 Brits.

Failed pop singer? I think not.

Awards
The Robert Burns project saw Reader awarded an MBE for outstanding contributions to the arts in the New Year's honours list of 2006[10].

In May 2007 she was awarded an honorary doctorate from the University of Strathclyde[11].

Later that year she was recognised for her contributions to music and to the education and encouragement of young musicians with an honorary doctorate and a Doctor of Letters from Glasgow Caledonian University[12].

In June 2008 she received another doctorate for her musical work, this time from the University of Stirling[13].


Undervalued? I think not.

Good singer? Personal taste.

Folk singer? Define folk!

Eddi is only valued by those with open minds? Should this be read as only those who agree with Lizzie? Again - I think not.

This is my final thread on Mudcat No 'think' about it this time. I am sure not. We can but live in hope...

DeG


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:15 AM

>>>>>"Well I'd say that Eddi is only valued by those with open minds."

Vintage LC!

The sub-text is that if you don't happen to like what LC likes, then you are closed-minded. I've been here before!

For what it's worth, I don't particularly enjoy Eddi's stuff. Firstly, that does not automatically make me closed-minded, and secondly, it doesn't really affect the focus of this thread.

Chris Murray's comment, "I think we all agree now that, whether you like her or not, she is definitely valued", makes perfect sense and is a fitting conclusion to this thread.<<<<<<

Sigh.....


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:18 AM

CS - Les Negresses Vertes are folk enough for me - I always thought of them as a French version of the Clash. Saw them live years ago and they were truly amazing.

Zobi La Mouche

Eddi Reader? Not my cuppa tea, but hardly undervalued.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:21 AM

Double sigh....posted too soon again...


No, what I meant by the 'open minds' part is that we (er...the open minded ones, that is) don't judge people on whether they've dared to become 'commercial'....but merely appreciate them for their contribution to music, and the music they make.

If you'd read my post correctly, you'd have ascertained that.

The problem here is that so many people apparently *know* **exactly** what I mean, even better than I do! It never ceases to amaze me.


I have an open mind, therefore I've never judged Seth Lakeman on his Warner Brothers deal, never chosen NOT to forgive him for it, as many on here seem to do....and if you don't believe that has happened to Seth, and the rest of those involved in Equation, then I'd suggest you read the entire chapter which Colin Irwin wrote about Seth Lakeman's career, in his wonderful book 'In Search of Albion'.

You may or may not like Eddi's music. That's fine by me. What is NOT fine by me is that she is judged, as was Barbara Dickson, on the fact that she also hit the bigtime....and therefore is not allowed back in The Secret Society of Traditional Music, run by The Secret Seven who put that 'radar' around it, to keep those they deem 'unpure' out.

:0)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:25 AM

"This is my final thread on Mudcat No 'think' about it this time. I am sure not. We can but live in hope..."

Now now, David...don't be gettin' a-nasty. :0)

Besides, Joe removed my 'final thread' so that means that it never existed...

(and she disappeared off to think of thousands more threads to weave into tapestries of folkyfunandfrolics.)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:30 AM

Spleen, LNV = great stuff!

"(and she disappeared off to think of thousands more threads to weave into tapestries of folkyfunandfrolics.)"

You are pure EVIL LC!!!
I've got all red in the face from laughing so hard at that... ;-D


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:40 AM

Eddie Reader, MBE and a doctorate, so what ? they have been giving Sean Connery awards for years and he can't even be arsed to live in his native country.

And don't be fooled, Lizzie doesn't really like folk music, all her ' discoveries ' are closer to pop than folk.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:59 AM

Nasty? Moi? Never! Just pointing out a few obvious flaws. On which subject...

What is NOT fine by me is that she is judged, as was Barbara Dickson, on the fact that she also hit the bigtime....and therefore is not allowed back in The Secret Society of Traditional Music, run by The Secret Seven who put that 'radar' around it, to keep those they deem 'unpure' out.

I presume the 'secret seven' is those who promote folk music in the media? Maybe the BBC - remember that place? Lets just look at the 'pure' folk music they promote by the simple means of seeing who they awarded things to -

2009 Lifetime achievement awards to James Taylor and Judy Collins. A pair who have obviously never seen the 'bigtime'.

2008 - Lifetime achievement award: John Martyn. Well, did you ever?

2007 - Lifetime Achievement Award: Pentangle. Never been in the public eye I guess.

2006 - Lifetime Achievement Award: Richard Thompson. No-hoper if I ever saw one.

2005 - Good Tradition Award: Steeleye Span. Surely not that rowdy electric band who achieved nothing?

And I have not even gone into other awards or categories.

Sorry, but we should put an end to the misnomer that anyone who suceeds is automaticaly excluded from the 'folk scene. Whatever that may be. The only exclusions from this imagined club are in the eye of the beholder.

DeG


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:22 AM

Ah yes, but....they are/were all within The Secret Circle...of Secret Friends of the Secret Society, so of course they were let in.... :0)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:28 AM

I wonder if all Steve Martins film fans are being abusive about him for selling out to play banjo ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:30 AM

Yes Sc and CS ty
Thanks for the heads up on LNV. Brilliant!
Love these nitpicky threads eh?
Ah well thats my mudcat fix for the day. Back to important things.
Al


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:32 AM

"I wonder if all Steve Martins film fans are being abusive about him for selling out to play banjo ?"

Not me - he does seem to play very well! :-)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:34 AM

"Ah yes, but....they are/were all within The Secret Circle...of Secret Friends of the Secret Society, so of course they were let in.... :0)"


Mmkay, let me see if I've got this argument right...

The Secret Circle of the Secret Friends of the Secret Society of the Folk Police hate and resent and are jealous of everything that is commercially successful. Except when they don't and they're not. Everyone from James Taylor to Judy Collins to John Martyn to Richard Thompson is IN the SC of the SF of the SC of the FP, but everyone Lizzie champions is not, because the people Lizzie champions have achieved commercial success. Oh wait - all of those other people have achieved commercial success, too. So the SC of the SF (etc) likes commercial success. Except when it doesn't. And it likes the people who achieve it. Except when it doesn't. And all these people such as Eddi Reader, who have never been appreciated (except when they're being awarded honorary degrees, or playing mainstages at folk festivals, or generally having quite a robust and healthy following) need Lizzie to champion them because all the nasty Folky Fundamentalists in the SC of the SF (etc) are picking on them. Except when they're not, and in fact they weren't, until Lizzie started another chippie thread about how everyone had to like all of the music she likes, all the time, or else we're a bunch of closed-minded, insular Folkie Fundies who are determined to Keep People Out.

Have I got it right?


Eddi's a very nice lady, by the way - we bonded while washing the mud off our feet in the sinks at Cropredy a few years ago (she was a headliner, despite the fact that she is obviously loathed by the folk community). And I always did like Fairground Attraction - I'm of the right generation. So I guess I'm not in the Folk Police after all. Hurrah! Glad that's finally sorted.

By the way - it was the Equation that signed with Warner's over 10 years ago. Seth Lakeman as a solo artist signed to EMI. I have never, ever heard anyone have issues with the Equation because of their record label. There were certainly other issues, but that was not one of them. I will not talk about those issues on a public forum, as it would be inappropriate, but it was nothing to do with who they signed with, or when or why. Eliza Carthy also signed to Warners, and it didn't seem to do her any harm in the public's perception. Oh, I forgot: that's cause, despite commercial success, she's in the SC of the SF of the...

*yawn*


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:48 AM

"No, what I meant by the 'open minds' part is that we (er...the open minded ones, that is) don't judge people on whether they've dared to become 'commercial'....but merely appreciate them for their contribution to music, and the music they make."

That's fair enough LC. No real idea about folk artists/folk music industry as I've never really followed folk as a musical genre. Don't think to be fair, I've witnessed that much of it so far. But there certainly can be quite a high degree of cliquery to be found in many music circles which eschews the work of successful artists, seemingly purely because they incidentally happen to be successful.

Most popular music doesn't grab me, possibly because it can sound like the musical equivalent of Findus Crispy Pancakes. Yet, there are great bands and great tracks which are also highly successful too, and I can do my fair share of commercial music if it just happens to please me. For example, I'm quite a sucker for cheesy classic Dance tracks especially! How's that for commercial?

Open Your Mind

PS I don't actually like this particular track, but you may find the 'New World Order' conspiracy theory video up your ally... ;-)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:57 AM

Clik-ka-dee doo dah


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:57 AM

But there certainly can be quite a high degree of cliquery to be found in many music circles which eschews the work of successful artists, seemingly purely because they incidentally happen to be successful.

I can't speak of the rest of musical circles.

I haven't met many of these people. Having been involved in folk music of one sort or another for well over forty years and most people I have an awareness of the struggle it is to make any kind of living in any kind of music.

Most people are delighted when some people are seen as commercially succesful.

Of course there are some nutters around who will shout and bawl about people "selling out" or whatever.

But most people see them as irrelevant. And very often their perception is wrong anyway.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:03 AM

Thanks to Joe Offer for posting that YouTube link to Eddi Reader's version of "Red Red Rose". Which is overproduced mediocrity, but has a related link to Eva Cassidy's version, which I hadn't heard before and which is MUCH MUCH better (it didn't hurt that as well as having a far better voice she was a very good guitarist and had the good taste not to clutter the arrangement up with synth strings).

The Isla St Clair one wasn't bad, either.

The one good thing about the Eddi Reader video was that having a guitar to hold kept her hands from waving about.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:11 AM

I suppose whether you love or despise those artists who are commercialy sucessful depends on who introduced you to the genre in the first place. My first 'folk' concert was the Spinners at the Free Trade Hall in 1960plonk and I loved it. Seeing as the Spinners were, commercialy, very sucessful I suppose I will never be invited to join the Folk-Masons.

Lizzie - we need to break this conspiricy. Have you got Dan Brown's email addy? Ruth - can we use your plot? It's amazing and I never knew such things went behind the scenes at CS house. So complicated!

:D (eG)

(Sorry Joe. I know I shouldn't but I couldn't resist it)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:16 AM

"By the way - it was the Equation that signed with Warner's over 10 years ago. Seth Lakeman as a solo artist signed to EMI. I have never, ever heard anyone have issues with the Equation because of their record label. There were certainly other issues, but that was not one of them. I will not talk about those issues on a public forum, as it would be inappropriate, but it was nothing to do with who they signed with, or when or why."


Yes, I'm fully aware that Seth is a solo artist. Thank you.

You know Ian Anderson. Ian knows Colin Irwin. Colin wrote the entire chapter on Seth, in his book 'In Search of Albion'...in that he states, very, very clearly, that Equation DID suffer because they were seen to have 'sold out' to the big boys.

Kate Rusby backed out of the deal at the last moment and went back to Yorkshire. She was sort of forgiven, but not quite...However, the rest of them, Seth, Sam, Sean, Cara and Kathryn suffered the backlash of The Secret Society of 'We Won't Let You Back In No Matter How Great You Are' members...who deem themselves far better than others...but who, in actual fact, are just a load of boring ol' farts...in my ever so humble opinion.

Probably best to read the book I guess.

I already have it and have read it several times over.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:31 AM

Umm, I've read the book. I don't need Ian Anderson as a link to Colin Irwin - Colin is a friend of mine. We've talked a lot about music, and what we like, and what we don't. We don't always agree, but we often make each other laugh. Colin told part of the story in that particular chapter, but not all of it - he told the story from a particular perspective. I was working in venues at the time, I had (and have) a different perspective on why The Equation had difficulty getting bookings.

If you're trying to say that Cara Dillon suffers from her association with The Equation, you're inhabiting a different universe to the one I'm in. She gets headlining spots all the time - the first time I saw her live was at Cambridge. She's represented by one of the best agents in the folk business. She wasn't even IN the Equation till fairly late in their trajectory.

Kathryn Roberts seems to have chosen a much more low-key career path for herself, and in recent years has, in fact, rarely been gigging at all. Which is unfortunate, as I've been trying to book her for a few years now. I'm hoping I'll be successful this summer, as I spoke to her brother about it recently.

SO this idea that "they haven't been let back in" is, in fact, more hype and fantasy.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:36 AM

I'm fully aware that Seth is a solo artist

Then you ought to have been aware that it was the band Equation that signed to Warner and that this particular Lakeperson, as a solo artist, signed to EMI much later.

I have never hear anyone complain about Warner as a label. Why would they? It's a label, not in itself an arbiter of musical direction. As Ruth says, it did no harm whatsoever as a staging post in Eliza Carthy's career. Colin Irwin reported in In Search Of Albion that Equation suffered after they sold out. If that means people criticised them because the quality of their music slipped off the lower end of the scale, he was of course right. Venues just stopped booking them. Not that I've read In Search Of . . . myself. That would be a bit like getting political analysis and social commentary from the Daily Mail. Ah, but you do . . .


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:06 PM

"I suppose I will never be invited to join the Folk-Masons.
Lizzie - we need to break this conspiricy. Have you got Dan Brown's email addy? Ruth - can we use your plot? It's amazing and I never knew such things went behind the scenes at CS house. So complicated!"

Oh my gawd, that would make such a blinding blockbuster!

>cue gravelly voice<

"The dark dusty catacombs beneath CSharp house" >cue: footsteps & shadows<
"the holy folk archives" >cue: usty dimly lit manuscripts<
"the evil ancient guardians who watch - hawk-like - in case the folk-graal be discovered by non-initiates.." >cue: crusty old folky with an accordian<
"But what is the dark mystery concealed behind it all? What liquid is really in those ceremonial tankards?" >cue: real ale - most probably, but in a certain light... wee'eell it get's you drunk...<


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:17 PM

Kate Rusby backed out of the deal at the last moment and went back to Yorkshire

I could have sworn she went and replaced Sally Barker in the Poozies.......who don't inhabit Yorkshire.

I know a lot about Equation - they gestated after I took the duo Kate and Kathryn and the trio Lakeman Brothers to do a gig in Braga, Portugal. Instant band formation for a foreign festival. It happens. Equation came shortly afterwards.

To update you on Kathryn, she seems very happy with the occasional gig with Sean. She has two lovely children - the twins Lilly and Poppy and as you can imagine they take up a lot of her time. They were at the carols at Dungworth yesterday. If only I had known this thread was coming up, I could have asked her about it.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM

I don't think that whichever label Equation signed up to alienated them from the folk fraternity although their publicity machine at the time might have done so. Their signing to Warner was covered in a lot of the Nationals and their spokesperson went along the lines of "we don't want to be associated with folk; folk is all chunky sweaters and real ale, we are a new fresh face....."and all the usual turgid bollocks. I think folkies were more dismayed than outraged that such a bright young band could sanction such a boring generalisation.
Anyway the one and only time that I saw Equation, a few years later, was at....a Real Ale Festival.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:00 PM

"Then you ought to have been aware that it was the band Equation that signed to Warner and that this particular Lakeperson, as a solo artist, signed to EMI much later."

Er...I did know. As well YOU know, Diane, as I've raised this fact about Equation and Colin Irwin over and again, but strangely, no-one mentions Colin's words...

Weird, huh?   

I've been aware of Equation for many moons. Got all their CDs, went to see Kathryn and the lads at their 10th Anniversary do at Exeter, wrote about it on the BBC board...where, as you seem to have forgotten, Diane, you used to slag Equation...and the Lakemans, off at every single opportunity, even getting told off by Jim Moray for being such a misery guts when he rejoiced about Seth being nominated for the Mercury....and then, of course, followed the Ian A. and cronies (imo) 'plot' to try and get Seth banned from that very award, which, as I recall, you also joined in with, saying that his CD had been released too early/late (fill in whichever fits)....

When I pointed out that no way would you have mentioned this fact, had it been one of your chosen ones, there was a silence that echoed around the BBC board.

You gave Seth a really hard time....so did Ian....who stated that both Seth and Show of Hands had somehow managed to 'get in under the radar' of the artists he considered to be 'traditional'...and all hell broke loose....

Short memory, huh?   :0)

And Dave, Kathryn and Sean used to live in Horrabridge, where I lived, at a different time...I spent many a happy hour in the Round The Bende Shoppe, which eventually became their home.

I also think that Kathryn Roberts is hugely undervalued by the traditional folk world. She has a superb voice and a great presence on stage.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:31 PM

Oh, you forgot to recount the saga of the Lakeperson-penned ditty about an albino bunny somehow getting nominated for "Best Traditional Track" in the Folk Awards, Go on, waste all the bandwidth left in the world and bore everyone. Though what the proliferation of Lakedwellers has to do with a Scottish singer who isn't in the slightest bit undervalued I fail to grasp.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:36 PM

100


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:36 PM

100 - YAWN


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:37 PM

'Spaw - you bastud - you were jest waitin' hunched over your keyboard to beat poor ol' Will to it...


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:38 PM

Sorry Will.....You were a day late and a dollar short (:<))

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:39 PM

Yeah Will I was.....and I even had a Blue Clicky for the occasion.....

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:42 PM

Yup - the Anne Frank drum kit... always wanted one of those...


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:51 PM

"I spent many a happy hour in the Round The Bende Shoppe"

Hmmm.....


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Stu
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:54 PM

". . .as a related link to Eva Cassidy's version, which I hadn't heard before and which is MUCH MUCH better"

Eva Cassidy - now she is overrated and overvalued in my opinion. But then that's why this thread is just so much bollocks - because it's just an opinion and no more or less valid than anyone else's.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Smedley
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:58 PM

Eva Cassidy - now if there was EVER somebody whose reputation was inflated by untimely death.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:15 PM

Death is often a good career move.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Smedley
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:18 PM

Imagine if James Dean had got old & paunchy, grabbing the occasional guest-star spot on Columbo or Murder She Wrote......


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:35 PM

"Eva Cassidy - now if there was EVER somebody whose reputation was inflated by untimely death."

I remember the very first time I ever heard Eva Cassidy singing, when 'Fields of Gold' filled the air in my Dartmoor home back then...as the River Walkham tumbled past my garden wall...

The beauty of her voice literally stopped me in my tracks. I stood there, in my kitchen.....just listening to this incredibly pure voice..

Eva - Fields of Gold

I wish she were still here...


I'm off to watch part 3 of Eddi's documentary now...

Eddi - 'All or Nothing' Parts 1,2 and 3


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:39 PM

OMG Cassidy does Sumner. Is there no bottom to this barrel?


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST,Guest John Hartford
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:46 PM

I died many a time and I am still underrated...lol

Typical of MudKat this thread has spouted thousands of words just to provide the clear message we all already knew.....

Eddi Reader is undervalued by the people who don't rate her and valued by those who do.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

Be happy in what you do

John


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:01 PM

Is there no end to the spite displayed here?


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Zen
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:58 PM

Is there no end to the spite displayed here?

No, unfortunately it seems not. Which is the main reason I very, very rarely post here after more than 10 years. When I do look in from time to time I am saddened to always find the same unpleasantness.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Villan
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:04 PM

I think David Beckham is undervalued and Victoria is a skeleton!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:10 PM

OMG Cassidy does Sumner. Is there no bottom to this barrel?

Who or what is or was Sumner?

Cassidy's songwriting doesn't do much for me, but she did have a remarkably beautiful voice and her guitar playing fitted it perfectly. My reaction to her was much like Lizzie's.

Whereas Eddi Reader comes across to me like a Susan Boyle without the mental retardation to excuse the tastelessness.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Villan
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:31 PM

I prefer Stings version of Fields Of Gold with that lovely pipe playing in the background.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:32 PM

"I also think that Kathryn Roberts is hugely undervalued by the traditional folk world."

Right...you've been told that people have actively tried to book her in recent years, and by people that know her (one of whom saw her only yesterday) that she prefers to focus on raising her family rather than her folk career...so how, exactly, does that constitute being undervalued?

But hey - never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Villan
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:42 PM

I have been trying to book Kathryn Roberts & Sean Lakeman for quite some time, but Sean has been heavily involved with Seth whilst Kathryn is doing the right thing looking after the family (well not for me as I would rather see her on the folk scene with Sean, but that is being selfish).
IMHO, they rate as one of the best duo's that were/are on the scene.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:58 PM

Well in the first message I posted on this thread, on 21 November, I said, "So, anyhow, Lizzie, you've attracted some negative responses here, and I'm wondering why." I get lots of complaints about Lizzie, and I've never quite understood them. All I've been able to determine is that Lizzie is more of a fan than a musician, that she likes performers that are more commercial than the performers that many of us prefer, that she talks a bit too much and listens a bit too little, that she can be a bit obnoxious, and that her enthusiam can be overwhelming.

OK, so I figured I'd play the devil's advocate and try to come to an understanding of all these complaints I receive. The conclusion I come to is that Lizzie has a lot of faults - but so have we all. All in all, despite the fact that she drives me crazy sometimes, I like her. I admire her enthusiasm and energy, and I appreciate the fact that she's nice to me even when she's mad at me.

So, although I'm sure I will continue to receive messages that tell me that Lizzie's participation in Mudcat has dire implications for the future of folk music, I will continue to fail to understand why.

Although she's a little crazy and can drive me MORE than a little crazy, I like her.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:09 PM

Awwwwwwww....I like you too, Joe. xx

But...I ain't obnoxious and if you don't stop saying that I'll...I'll............. ;0)




"Right...you've been told that people have actively tried to book her in recent years, and by people that know her (one of whom saw her only yesterday) that she prefers to focus on raising her family rather than her folk career...so how, exactly, does that constitute being undervalued?

But hey - never let the facts get in the way of a good rant."



Er, long before you came on the scene trying to be 'the new Diane'... and long before Kathryn had her children, I was still saying exactly the same thing....and in those days, she was undervalued, having had the stigma of Equation, Warner Brothers and the spite of some of the folk world on her shoulders, as did the Lakemans and Cara Dillon too...

It's amazing though, how Seth has now been forgiven, even making it to the front cover of fRoots over and over again, despite 'getting in under the radar'

But hey, never let the truth get in the way of oneupmanship, or magazine profits, huh?


Kathryn and Sean - Youtube - The Whitby Maid




"Whereas Eddi Reader comes across to me like a Susan Boyle without the mental retardation to excuse the tastelessness."

That is one of the most unpleasant remarks I've seen in a long while, but no less than I expect to see ripple from your typewriter, sadly.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Villan
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:11 PM

Just for Joe. This is so fitting :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7xwUOA_I84

Can you pick Joe and Lizzie out ROFLMAO


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Villan
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:16 PM

I know that video Lizzie and it looks so much like the pub that Andy Watkins used to use for Lincoln Folk in Lincolnshire.

Anybody able to disprove that?

Not the best video, but there aren't many if any of them other than this one.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Villan
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:29 PM

That was about Kathryn Roberts and Sean Lakeman


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 07:47 PM

OMG Cassidy does Sumner. Is there no bottom to this barrel?

Who or what is or was Sumner?


Eva Cassidy does a Gordon Sumner (stage name Sting) song.
Unbearably naff. There can be no doubt that death was exploited here as a good career move by the MOR end of the BBC.

Odd (or not) that Susan Boyle whose CD of a string of dreary covers was reviewed on Front Row earlier, gets dragged up in the same post. Blatant manipulation of the afflicted for cash.

Eddi Reader ain't my thing, any more than the various Lakeperson + associated hangers on. They do what they do and are in no way undervalued or underpromoted. Underwhelming, certainly.

To me, it's incomprehensible that this garbage cart of commercialised trash should be hauled out into the maelstrom of discussion when there is so many exciting new interpretations of English music available out there. The only possible explanation is that the OP has dipped into this putrid well out of perversity and to draw out the cloth-eared to pitch in their tired old contributions to the cacophony. Tasteless trolling.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 07:47 PM

and long before Kathryn had her children, I was still saying exactly the same thing....and in those days, she was undervalued, having had the stigma of Equation, Warner Brothers and the spite of some of the folk world on her shoulders, as did the Lakemans and Cara Dillon too...

Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 05:58 PM

.........

Although she's a little crazy and can drive me MORE than a little crazy, I like her.


Joe, I am delighted you tell us you like her. And that she is allowed to post on here. Without restriction. I assume by that, we who disagree with what she writes will have the same rights to post, in order to contradict that which she says, not of habit, or contrariness but because she does not know that which she talks about.

Lizzie I took Kathryn and Kate to a festival in Portugal - on the basis they were tremendous and emerging talents. That was in 1994 and in September, a few weeks later Kathryn became Young Folk Artist of the Year. She was the first singer ever to do so.

Had you discovered folk music at that point? Errr....well according to your posts - no. Your discovery of folk music came a few years later.

So at what point in her career were you saying how she was undervalued? And who was saying she wasn't?

What was the stigma of the folk world? Tell us Lizzie.

A number of us know the story of Kate and Kathryn and Equation far mor intimately than you do Lizzie. We respect our friends which is why we haven't posted any details.

You on the other hand, know it well. After all, you have read it in a book. So it must be correct.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 07:50 PM

"Er, long before you came on the scene trying to be 'the new Diane'... and long before Kathryn had her children, I was still saying exactly the same thing...."

Well, I've been involved with folk music for around 20 years, and was working as a volunteer at one of the country's best folk venues (of the time) in the mid 90s when the Equation were originally doing the rounds...were you around on the folk scene then, Lizzie? I thought your discovery was a bit more recent...

Kathryn has chosen a particular career path for herself, and the reasons are best known to her and her husband. To be championing her cause when, from what I understand, there's really no cause to champion, is just more misguided overreaction over nothing. Plus ca change.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:21 PM

Folkiedave says:
    Without restriction. I assume by that, we who disagree with what she writes will have the same rights to post, in order to contradict that which she says, not of habit, or contrariness but because she does not know that which she talks about.
Certainly Dave - just be sure you attack the ideas expressed, not the person they're coming from.
Oh, and I like you, too, and I think you perform a valuable service for the folk community.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:24 PM

I've been involved in trad music even longer than Ruth, but that's only because I'm older. Having begun as a small child learning from my grandfather, a traditional morris and sword musician, and having dance lessons with a champion clog-dancing family, the emergence of Equation was to me just an unfortunate blip best forgotten. Before that, I'd been very hopeful for the Lakeman trio and the Rusby/Roberts duo when Dave was giving them their early breaks.

From what I recall of lizziecornish's epiphany, it occurred in about 2003 when, strolling through Sidmouth where she had perchance come to live, she was offended by an Italian traditional band but cheered by the strains of a pub-rock duo. A while later, she discovered scribbling boards but is now allowed solely on this one where she perpetuates her half-baked myths and cranky theories.

Many's the high-profile performer and activist that has entreated her to desist. Many's the time she's flounced off, promising never to come back. Yet still it continues, spewing like an incessant volcano.

misguided overreaction over nothing
Indeed.
plus ça change
Not yet,


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 09:07 PM

Same for you, Diane - just be sure you attack the ideas expressed, not the person they're coming from.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Silas
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 02:54 AM

"I remember the very first time I ever heard Eva Cassidy singing, when 'Fields of Gold' filled the air in my Dartmoor home back then...as the River Walkham tumbled past my garden wall...

The beauty of her voice literally stopped me in my tracks. I stood there, in my kitchen.....just listening to this incredibly pure voice.."


I agree.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 03:59 AM

"To me, it's incomprehensible that this garbage cart of commercialised trash should be hauled out into the maelstrom of discussion when there is so many exciting new interpretations of English music available out there. The only possible explanation is that the OP has dipped into this putrid well out of perversity and to draw out the cloth-eared to pitch in their tired old contributions to the cacophony. Tasteless trolling."

There ya go, Dave...NOW defend your friends...come on, defend Mrs. Lakeman, and Kate, and Cara....and Sean and Sam and Seth..et al...

Oh, sorry, you'll have to speak up a little louder, I can't hear you.
And...I haven't heard you for the past umpteen years either, while I was defending Seth, Equation, Kate and Cara, or being the only one to mention Kathryn....Strange, huh?



Just for Joe. This is so fitting :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7xwUOA_I84

Can you pick Joe and Lizzie out ROFLMAO


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:00 AM

Oh bums! I did it again! GRRRRR. Sorry, Joe!

Just for Joe. This is so fitting :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7xwUOA_I84

Can you pick Joe and Lizzie out ROFLMAO


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:03 AM

AAAARRGH! Could a kindly Mudelf please remove my post above....as summat weird is going on with my computer and it's posting before I've finished writing...

>>>Just for Joe. This is so fitting :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7xwUOA_I84

Can you pick Joe and Lizzie out ROFLMAO <<<

Villan, you got me crying with laughter on that one. Brilliant!

I LOVE The Muppets so much...and I think this world is a far poorer place without them all over our screens. Wonderful stuff.

Sadly, I have Miss Piggy's chest! EEK!   And her hair...and her eyelashes....Cripes!

I need to find me a FROG...and fast!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:12 AM

The problem is not your computer, it's your head.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:45 AM

Very possibly, Dave. :0)

Moving this thread back to Eddi though. I have 'Eddi Reader Sings The Songs of Robert Burns' and it's just beautiful. I can't find it at the moment, as my daughter borrowed it...grrrr...I'm going to ask Father Christmas for 'Angels and Electricity' and her brand new one 'Love Is The Way'...so fingers crossed that he's listening. :0)

BBC review of Eddi's 'Robert Burns' CD

BBC Review
On this evidence it'll be a long (or should that be lang?) time before Reader and her...

Chris Jones 2003-06-02

Eddi Reader's voice is an undeniably awesome thing. Her ability to swoop, soar and generally take your breath away has been a proven fact since Fairground Attraction's First Of A Million Kisses in 1988. Yet attempting new interpretations of the work of Scotland's greatest bard may be, to some of you, a step too far. Is it merely an exercise in trying to prove the old cliche about singing the phone book and making it sound wonderful? Surely old Rabbie just wrote corny stuff about mice and haggises? Well, wrong and wrong again. For Reader wants the world to rediscover what most residents of Scotland's West coast have known for three centuries. Burns wrote a top lyric and his words, filtered through Eddi's lovely larynx, again, come to life on this release.

Sure enough the usual classics are revisited. ''My Love Is Like A Red Red Rose'', ''Auld Lang Syne'' and ''Charlie Is My Darling'' all get a dusting down; but with a band and arrangements as good as this, it's like listening to a brand new repertoire. Ably abetted by her usual band and featuring the awesome fiddle of John McCusker and the lush orchestral arrangements of Kevin McRae, Reader has reached a logical point in a career that's gradually moved nearer to pure folk with every release. In her voluminous sleeve notes she contextualises the project by recounting how her move from the urban sprawl of Glasgow to the Ayrshire town of Irvine brought Burns' magic to her attention.

The delicate acoustic backings focus the mind on Burns' words. It's the universality of his messages that Eddi's attempting to convey here. The bawdy ''Brose And Butter''; the declaration of lasting devotion ''John Anderson My Jo''; and the call for political moderation and peace ''Ye Jacobites'' - all have a contemporary relevance. And as John McCusker says in his commentary, it's in no way in danger of being ''dead posh''.

If there's a reservation it's in the somewhat cloying nature of the strings of the RSNO. Yet this is a small gripe in the face of such a fresh look at a man's work that's justly celebrated every 25th of January north of the border. Interestingly the finest moment arrives with the song ''Wild Mountainside'' which isn't actually by Burns at all, but by the Trash Can Sinatras' John Douglas. It's included to demonstrate how the poet's muse lives on in Scotland to this day. On this evidence it'll be a long (or should that be lang?) time before Reader and her friends lose their inspiration.


And from Eddi's myspace page, about her new CD:


>>>>>>I am going on the road to play some new songs from my new record LOVE IS THE WAY.

This record was made over three sessions in a little recording room down an abandoned alley in a few sunny hours and thundery hours in Glasgow, last summer.

It was one of my ambitions to find a brilliant, warm environment to play live in and record in. I also wanted to meet an engineer who would be empathetic to my desire for capturing mood and feeling over technical trickery.

Mark Freegard had been working as an engineer in London and America successfully for years. Working on recordings by: Justin Currie and Del Amitri, The Breeders, Manic Street Preachers, Marilyn Manson, Maria McKee, Madder Rose and many more.

He left London to move up to Glasgow because he fell in love. He found this little room above the Glasgow to Helensburgh train line where he has installed his recording system.

It's a rented place that was a former rehearsal/ writing space for The Blue Nile. Boo Hewerdine had worked with him and encouraged me to check out Mark and the space. I didn't bother. I was depressed and dark about not having a lot of money to record a new record. I had talked to Geoff Travis at Rough Trade earlier in the year about perhaps doing a 'best of' record and having a couple of extra tracks. The boys in the band wanted a record of some kind so that we could tour later in the year. So I was looking for somewhere to record two tracks.

Boo yet again told me of Mark so, reluctantly, I investigated it. I walked up the alley past the wild cats and tripping over the potholes. I walked in highly sceptical and angry, burned out, hopeless. Feeling I would never find anyone who would help me. I noticed that Mark had his recording desk unusually in the middle of the recording room. I saw lots of windows that let in light and the noise of Argyle Street never mind the train that kept on coming under the floor. I noticed the wall full of winking burlesque girls from the sixties.

I told him that I would like to try a session with the live band thinking I would hear something negative about how not possible it was in that place. But Mark was so positive, excited even, and when Roy arrived after driving from London all night he and Mark hugged each other because they were old friends.

As the boys arrived everything got mic'd up. Boo had a couple of new songs I wanted to try and I remembered Jack Maher from Sharon Shannon's band had a beautiful tune, so I called him up and got him to come over from Dublin. I had a few others that might sound good so I had sent little demos of the songs to everyone. Boo and John and Jack taught the chords to each other and we set sail. Mark recorded everything and I don't know how he got the clear real sound he did. I think it might be a secret.

After the first day's session I realised we had five tracks and I thought I had the beginnings of a new record. I sent the first day's recordings to Geoff Travis of Rough Trade and he set me a budget to record a full album.

My history is well known and if you happen not to know it, GOOD! Forget it. I am starting from here.

I have a passionate love of instinctive, beautiful songs. Also a slightly insane attachment to romantic chord structures. Words that speak of some universal humanist truth. That can be 'thrown away' with no regrets. This can be summed up in most of the songs on this record.

That's it... I hope you like it. It's personal to me and maybe nothing to do with corporate commercialism nor is it meant to be. There is only something ambitious in the hope that whoever hears it will use it as I have used it, to soundtrack life a little bit. To dance with bare feet to yourself singing along with me.

And if you listen carefully you will hear the Helensburgh train. Always came in on time…

Eddi
xxx

LOVE IS THE WAY is out now on Rough Trade Records.<<<<


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:02 AM

Can I ask a simple question please, Lizzie. After seeing the above review, being made aware of Eddi's awards and achievements and noting all the possitive comments are you still saying that she is undervalued?

DeG


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Smedley
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:16 AM

Love the Muppets video. Hearing Miss Piggy always reminds me why I can never take Star Wars seriously.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:10 AM

Lizzie do you understand the law of inverse proportions ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:13 AM

"...are you still saying that she is undervalued?"


Yup... :0)

Boo, too..

(I like that, 'Boo, too')

Their music should be all over the place. It's wonderful. (purely in my ever so 'umble thoughts)

Boo, too - Yoot...tube... :0) singing Eddi's 'The Patience of Angels' which he wrote...

Boo Hewerdine's Myspace

'Cor blimey, some of you lot would try the patience of angels, that's fer sure.. ;0)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Smedley
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:18 AM

ER's version of Patience of Angels is good, but Boo H's own version is better. Great song, anyway.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:20 AM

"Lizzie do you understand the law of inverse proportions ?"

Oh yes, that's easypeasy..

Two quantities, A and B, are in inverse proportion if by whatever factor A changes, B changes by the multiplicative inverse, or reciprocal, of that factor.

See?

But of course, if you multiply that by 2, whilst standing on your head, drinking cider, it's a little easier to understand...It's also the reason I used to dream of The Muppets, during Maths Lessons, rather than worrying why x=y in the first place, because I didn't care if y=r to be honest...and I used to think about what made PiethagoRus has his Theory in the first place...

I think it was because he hadn't ever discovered The Oysterband myself, and therefore was never really able to just relax and let himself go.....He'd have had far more colourful and interesting theories, if he had....in my thoughts, of course... :0)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:39 AM

Sounds like a pop singer to me


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:39 AM

"...are you still saying that she is undervalued?"


Yup... :0)


Another question then. In what way is she undervalued and by whom? As you have seen, she is very highly esteemed so I realy don't understand why you are saying she isn't.

DeG


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 07:53 AM

No, I said do you understand it ? not can you copy it from a website.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Stu
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 09:10 AM

Whelks are undervalued.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 09:12 AM

I'm underwhelked...


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 09:23 AM

Whelks are undervalued, you eat one and it expands ten fold instantly in your mouth and takes three days to eat.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:31 PM

I don't that's as much undervalued as underestimated, Dave. It is the whelks natural defence mechanism:-)

And I have still had no answer to my last question.

D.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:34 PM

It isn't true, anyway I have eaten a whelk in less than three days. The shell was difficult, in fact I'd say it took most of the time.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:46 PM

If you don't want the whelks don't muck `em abaht
If you don't want `em other people may"

There's a fellow you should meet, runs a fish shop down our street
He wraps it up in paper every day
When they're crowding round the stall, he addresses one and al
And this is what you'll always hear him say"

Nah, if you don't want the whelks don't muck `em abaht
And take yer baby's fingers off the slab (They're covered in
chocolate!)
Lovely two eyed kippers, take `em for the nippers
Take a hake or a nice cod steak
Soles and eels for the old man's meals
They're lovely – they're all fresh in today
So if you don't want the whelks don't muck `em abaht
If you don't want `em other people may

If you don't want the whelks don't muck `em abaht
And move yer pram and let the others in (You're blocking the doorway)
Lovely two eyed kippers, take `em for the nippers
Take a hake or a nice cod steak
Roes or trout for the old man's gout
They're lovely, they're all fresh in today
So if you don't want the whelks don't muck `em abaht
If you don't want `em other people may

they don't write them like that anymore :)


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Stu
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:25 AM

Whelktastick!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:35 AM

Brill.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Smedley
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:45 AM

Looking forward to the Lady Gaga version of the one.

In a similar vein, there was also the music hall gem 'Has Anybody Seen My Winkle?'.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:31 AM

Ah that song brings back memories of The Billy Cotton Bandshow.
I can only remember part of the tune though, unfortunately.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:34 AM

"In a similar vein, there was also the music hall gem 'Has Anybody Seen My Winkle?'."

Yes. Didn't Whelkie Brooks do a version of that?


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:42 AM

I think it was because he hadn't ever discovered The Oysterband myself

During a playing of New Order's Low Life the other day my wife shocked me with the revelation that The Oysterband had covered Love Vigilantes. I took this for a joke at first - ha, ha, dear - sure they did, and no doubt followed it up with True Faith - but stuff has since turned up on YouTube suggesting it must have entered the Folk Tradition at some point...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2MQK0us2k8


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:51 AM

Was Billy Cotton undervalued ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Stu
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:04 AM

Cotton vests are undervalued. I get mine from M&S.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Smedley
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:09 AM

The Oyster Band also covered the Velvet Underground's 'All Tomorrow's Parties', with June Tabor taking the lead vocals first done by Nico. It works really well too.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:39 AM

Anyone know the full words of the song

"Whale kipper whelk-ome in the hillsides..."

Is something going distincly fishy on this thread?

DeG

I've got the finest oysters that ever you did see


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:44 AM

This feels like being in a conger line.

I'd better clam up now.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:07 AM

Don't play the raw prawn now.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:08 AM

Load of old cod, but on the other hand I am hard of herring so it might be me.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:49 AM

My motor pike has a side carp, AND a spare eel.
No it's not a load of pollacks, I'm not breaming, nor am I trying to hake the fish.
There's a plaice for huss, where it's best not to talk about your nasty halibuts in public.
There is no cod!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:54 AM

I'm feeling a bit bloatered after lunch, I think I'll have a lay down now.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:56 AM

Don't come the raw prawn with me mate. Or try to mussel in. But that apart, the world's your lobster.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Villan
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 09:17 AM

This thread is fish poor. My fingers hake from typing and I have developed mussels on my eels due to sitting here.
I salmon you all to plaice this thread in the fin.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Will Fly
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:07 AM

FIN!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Stu
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:18 AM

Warms the cockles, doesn't it?


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:21 AM

Floundering a bit there Will. Fly-fishing?


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:22 AM

Whale oil beef hooked.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Chris Green
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 11:47 AM

I think this thread is rapidly straying from its original porpoise...


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 11:58 AM

Sho shad Miss Moneypenny


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Stu
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 11:58 AM

It's starting to flounder . . .


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: TheSnail
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 12:08 PM

Well I think it's a load of THIS!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Chris Green
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:26 PM

Well, at least you're not koi when it comes to saying what you think.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:29 PM

Stop carping.

And I think this guy is undervalued too.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:05 PM

The taller fish are called the higher perches, and never never upset them.
It's been a Ling time, but it makes Megrim, and upset, when I think of what happened to John Dory.
Never in my wildest Breams, did I think the Tusk fund I set up would be Coley abused.
Red Black Silver Bronze Skimmer and Julian. The Bream Ensemble, will tonight play Finlandia, by Jean Sea Bass


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:08 PM

Whoa ... that smelt


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:15 PM

I didn't post on the Mary Asquith obit thread because I only met Mary once, when she was booked at our club, and people who knew her better had already said it all. But I do remember her as a fine perfomer. I followed the link to her version of closing time and realised just what a talent she was. Like most 'jobbing' professionals on the club circuits she never got the national recognition she deserved.

It did make me realise that if anyone is undervalued it is the people who put years and years into traveling the country to perform at small clubs, sleeping on put-me-up beds if they are lucky and in the back of the van if they are not and often making nothing more than pence for their troubles. Taking nothing away from Eddi Readers talent I think it is fair to say that many people would class the talents of this stalwart band of performers as equal to, if not greater than, those who have made the grade.

Here are some of my faourites:

Geoff Higginbottom (In the Phatt B'stards)

Anthony John Clarke

Fiona Simpson

Usual iffy quality on youtube clips and a distinct Northern feel (AJC is from the North or Ireland but now resident in NW England.)

Feel free to add your own favourites.

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: The Villan
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:48 AM

Anthony John Clarke is a fine entertainer and did an excellent show at Faldingworth recently. Apart from that, he is also a very nice person and has his feet planted firmly on the ground.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:20 AM

The tench ion is becoming unbearable.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:34 AM

Dave - you're actually right about Catfish Keith! He's great.


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:57 AM

Of course!!


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:29 PM

Course as in...

Oh, never mind.

I applied to join the Halle-but I wasn't good enough

:D


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Subject: RE: Eddi Reader - Undervalued?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:58 PM

To add to DeG's post, and in keeping with the fishy flavour this thread has taken, I think Sid Kipper fits the b(r)ill...

Pete


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