BS: Cheney in 2012

Subject: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 08:57 PM

CNN today was raising the possibility that real Republicans may back Dick Cheney for president in 2012, and mentioned lovely Sarah as a running mate. The flyer is not new, the Huffington Post ran the story "Cheney in 2012" a couple of times (09-1-09 and 10-17-09).

The gist is that if the 2012 election were to turn to national security, according to Wall Street Journal writer James Taranto, "it is hard to think of a better candidate ... than Richard B. Cheney."

I'm sure the prospect excites some of our notable contributors, and will take their minds off such dull topics as "Christmas rant."
Having taken on Iraq and spilled over into Afghanistan, where should 'lovable Dick' turn next?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/01/cheney-in-some-key-g_n_273470.html

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:09 PM

This should be added onto the "(Mayan) 2012" thread. It seems they both herald the end of civilization as we know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:23 PM

Hell will freeze first.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Alice
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:32 PM

and pigs will fly

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:38 PM

Regarding the 'end of civilization', I think that sums it up. Guy can't even aim a shotgun or rifle or whateverthehellitwas, and he wants to have the Big Red Button!? Holy caust, Batman!

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:44 PM

Speaking of pigs, Cheney has experienced a number of health problems and he's too old to run. On top of that, he's still on speaking terms with his lesbian daughter, so people who go to church will never vote for him.
               If he was running with Sarah, if the stock market tanked during the campaign he'd die of a heart attack, and Sarah would be moved up to the top of the ticket. She, of course, would probably win, but Cheney would have to fall on his sword to allow it to happen. Somebody with 5 deferments during the Vietnam War would never allow himself to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:58 PM

Rig-

You may be right on this one. Still I'd love to see the old warrior try, and then have us invade China and show the world how a major economic country should be run, and with Democracy too!

But that would be wrong (not to mention incredibly foolish)!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:02 PM

... real Republicans may back Dick Cheney...

Define "real Republican".

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:13 PM

Greg F.- ask CNN. That's where I heard it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:22 PM

Woo hee. I dun think so.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:42 AM

What a horrifying thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: kendall
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:55 AM

I heard he died at Auchwitz.....he fell out of the guard tower.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 10:57 AM

stranger things have happened... I still think that he'd look good in an orange jump suit... or naked at the bottom of a neo-con henchmen pyramid

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 11:24 AM

Judging from what the idjits around here seem to think, I don't think it is so unlikely. There are people who would vote for him in a heartbeat.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 01:34 PM

Ron, that's a little kinky, no?

Makes me think of that detail in 'A Garden of Earthly Delights' with the upside-down naked person and a daisy sticking out of their arse, but there's a banshee wind outside and the day's just been strange.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 03:21 PM

A Cheney-Palin ticket?????? Gag me.

If either one of them is ever elected President OR Vice President (or, in Cheney's case, elected Vice President again), I swear I'm moving out of the country. Got room for one more, Canada?

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Peter T.
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 04:11 PM

We have our own lying and torture problems.....

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 04:18 PM

Peter, are you speaking of our revered dearly beloved upright and forthright PM?

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 04:57 PM

And our neighbours to the south are now wanting us to extend our 2011 deadline (and remain in Afghanistan). Oh, joy.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: DougR
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:09 PM

Huffington Post? What a laugh.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:48 PM

Sarah has a hell of a lot more passionate support than Cheney ever will.   And her supporters won't be satisfied with second fiddle.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:50 PM

Katlaughing is speaking of the west (Wyoming, Montana, etc.). I hear much the same from the southern states.

Cheney could not carry an election (?) but he has many supporters. I would hope that the Republicans would make better choices of candidates in 2012 than Cheney and Palin.

One has only to look at the 2008 election map and figures to see that the Democrats hold on Congress is precarious and their programs could be derailed by small shifts in the next congressional vote.

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/election2008/2008-election-map.html

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: MarkS
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 01:06 PM

A Cheney candidacy is real unlikely. The guy has heart problems and the stress could probably not be tolerated.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 04:52 PM

From what I can figure Cheney would be 71 in 2012. The oldest president elected so far was Regan at 69. So his age would be a factor.Aside from the fact that he would be a God-awful president.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ref
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 05:26 PM

I don't see him as a credible voice on international affairs. Norman Schwartzkopf derided his ridiculous advice in Gulf War I, wanting to drop the airborne into Iraq and send the armor after them a la Arnhem. Cheney has always impressed the kind of fools who think a mean-spirited snarl equals toughness. Cheney is a coward and a braggart. Bad combination for a leader.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: GUEST,Lox
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 08:49 PM

Over my dead body ........ probably ...

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 09:18 PM

Not DICK Cheney... his daughter! (Liz?)

She was on the circuit chanting the Cheneyline for months!

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 10:24 PM

Gee, I dunno Douggie-boy; Arianna was your heroine when she supported Gingrich & Dole.

Which is it that pisses you off more- that she's an educated (unlike som FOX blatherskites I could name), independent woman or that she ultimately saw thru the right-wing bullshit?

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 12:27 PM

What I anticipate is a constitutional amendment in 2011 that will allow foreign-born citizens to run for president. Then Arnold Schwarzenneger will divorce his wife, marry Sarah Palin (who will also have divorced her husband), and the TWO of them will run jointly for the office of president, with Jeb Bush as the (strictly ceremonial) VP. Palin and Schwarzenneger will BOTH take the Oath of Office, and they will make all decisions together as the First Couple from that point on. They will rule by decree. It will be a Brave New World Order founded upon Strength, Courage, and above all, Discipline!

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 04:43 PM

I just got off the phone with Sarah and asked her about her running as Cheney's VP and this is what she said: "I wouldn't let that man carry my jock strap!!!"... And that is a quote...

Guess it's that time of the month???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 09:21 PM

Little Hawk-

Once again your age and wisdom shines through.

What a vision!

I think I need another drink...

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 09:24 PM

Sarah does arouse more passionate support than Cheney ever will, as I said. But thinking about it, that does not exclude the possibility of Cheney in 2012--as VP on Sarah's ticket. I'd say he has experience being VP, adds "gravitas"--if you're the type who would vote for Sarah--and could possibly be the power behind the throne---again.

And as a campaigner--who would wish for a more vicious attack dog, one of the main VP roles in a campaign?

I sure wouldn't wish this for the country--or the world.   But it hinges on the war and economy issues--much too far in the future now to predict. Things have to improve or this ticket is a strong possibility.   Fortunately there's still a lot of time.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: frogprince
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 09:36 PM

I know that there seems to be some credibilty to the idea that many Americans will vote for the candidate they would most like to have a beer with. But I truly hope that not that many would want to vote for the one they would most like to waterboard a Muslim with.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 08:10 AM

...not that many would want to vote for the one they would most like to waterboard a Muslim with.

Don't wager too much money on it- ignorance coupled with fear can work wonders.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 12:07 PM

Dick Cheney does not deserve to be President of the US. He deserves a special room in Hell, with Osama Bin Laden as his cell mate.

I believe he intentionally ignored warnings that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks in hopes that a terrorist attack could be used as a propaganda tool to further his agenda. I don't believe he expected anything as huge as what actually happened - he expected an attack with tens of casualties, not thousands - but the fact that he was willing to allow even one person to be used as a sacrificial lamb to further his own neocon goals makes him an accessory to murder.


-------


As for Sarah Palin, if she were to actually attempt a run at the Presidency in 2012, her Republican primary opponents would chew her up and spit her out in small bloody chunks. She resigned an elected position to go off and be a celebrity. She's a quitter who reneged on her promise to the people of her state. Will she quit again if the Presidency isn't what she expected? It's one thing when Democrats say such things, but it's absolutely damning when her fellow Republicans say them, and if she enters the primaries they will be said.

If she's going to be part of the 2012 Republican ticket, it will be a reprise as Vice President so she doesn't have to go through the primary system*. As VP candidate the same Republicans who would have done their best to destroy her in the primaries can all rally to her defense as those mean old Democrats tell nasty vicious lies about her.


* As an aside, I think the current system of, essentially, appointing US Vice Presidential nominees is ludicrous. I firmly believe that VP nominees should be chosen from among the pool of Presidential primary candidates. That way we'd know that if he or she should ever assume the Presidency, we'd be getting someone who was at least interested enough in the job to have attempted to earn it instead of having had it presented gratis by the party PR experts.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 12:34 PM

Cheney despite his protestations of everyone but himself, is completly irrelvant. He is an old impotent man who clings to his delusion of elder statesmanship. Let him.

Instead of feeling outraged by the man who was formerly Dick Cheney, feel sad for him. Let him go.

Allow him to peacefully and compassionatley fade away. Let him leave this Earth with forgiveness.

Please allow this man to die eventually of an expected yet agonizing heart attack at 2:45AM on January 21st alone and linger in extreme palin for weeks until all the medical machinery in the world can no longer sustain this man's evil sick and twisted life of fear.

My God bless.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 02:19 PM

Few doubt that 2010 will bring Democrat defeats in many ridings; they will lose control of their agenda. This will lead to a Republican victory in 2012 if they select a strong presidential candidate.

Dick Cheney will be a strong campaigner in 2010 for candidates in many states; Sarah Palin also will campaign across the country, but I doubt her influence.
2012 again will see Cheney as a strong campaigner although doubtfully as a presidential candidate. Huckabee is making noises, but there is no way he could carry a convention. A stronger contender is needed.

Regardless of the errors that led to the stupid war in Iraq, Obama will continue the war effort in Afghanistan; that will require troops for several more years while the effort slowly dies without resolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 06:27 PM

Q--you're a Canadian after all.   I bet a nickel that very few Democrats--probably zero--will be defeated in any US ridings. Perhaps you can tell us which ones.







Now back to the originally scheduled program.


Obviously it's dangerous to predict the future. But that doesn't stop us from blithely giving it a try.   And of course all we have to go on is the past.

But, given those caveats, it seems Mudcatters are still doing an awful lot of whistling in the dark--as I've said more than once before.

"....if she were actually to attempt a run...". Would that it were so.

But I'm afraid it's not quite that simple.   As you know, primaries and caucuses are about passion. On the Republican side that has meant, for several elections now, 1) anti-abortion, 2)   anti-homosexuality   and 3) pro gun rights.

Of all the candidates, there is no question who has the anti-abortion vote locked up tight:   the only one who has "walked the walk":   Sarah. In the Iowa caucus this is likely to pay off in spades. Unless she loses this title between now and then. As I said, it's much too soon now to predict anything.

But she is in fact also quite strong on the other 2 "true believer" issues. Who's the poster girl of the NRA? Cheney?

The "quitter" label, much as the notion may comfort Mudcatters now, will likely be ancient history by 2012. And how many anti-abortionists in Iowa and elsewhere do you think care about "quitter" even now?   You'd best pick a low number.

Sarah's audience's in the US are often rapturous. That's not true of any other Republican at this point. And it translates into going the second mile--and then some--for her.

Also, look at the head of steam Obama had coming out of Iowa.   Iowa can make a huge difference.


And who knows how many women are ready for a woman president--even this one?   She already has the Susan B Anthony Society (anti-abortion) eating out of her hand. All she has to do is tack back to the center--sound reasonable on the campaign trail in the general election--note the Mudcatter who already thinks she can sound reasonable. And the war and/or economy issues (especially, as I've observed before, unemployment) to continue to be strongly negative for President Obama in 2012--as, like it or not, they appear to be now.


We can hope that 2012 will not be like 1980--but nobody knows.

It's much too early to write off Sarah--unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 06:41 PM

Oh, pooh, Ron! *grin*...Sarah is not gonna run! It would require WORK...win or lose! She is in this for $$$$$$. People are (sadly) paying her big bucks to show up and be a celebrity and pretend she has clout! Many Republican are begging her to stay away!

What Democrats there are who take her even halfway seriously are hoping she WILL run for something and make an even bigger travesty of their (the Republican's) situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 08:34 PM

No problem if I want to return to the states, but I have no wish to.
I could order the Cheney mask that amazon.com is selling for $14.+ and not even bother with going to the consulate for the paper work.

Ron, Canadian politics are so dull that many Canadians know more about U. S. politics than they do about Canadian; they see and hear the same stuff, including polls, that Americans do.

As you say, the war/economic issues will continue to be negative for Obama. There will be a shift in Congress in 2010; small, but sufficient to put his objectives on hold.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ref
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 09:45 PM

Palin is nothing but an opportunist. Bill D has her pegged. I'm intrigued by Little Hawk's theory, though. Maybe those Republicans and her admirers in the MSM want to be disciplined by her?

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 10:48 PM

"Palin is nothing but an opportunist".   And how was, for instance, Reagan, not an opportunist?

It goes with the territory.

How many politicians have been disqualified by being "an opportunist"?

That's a weak reed to disqualify Palin.

It's time for Mudcatters to stop underestimating the opposition.   Liberals have been doing it for quite a while--and paying the price.   And I consider myself a liberal--though trying to be one who recognizes reality, and tries to deal with it.

By 2011 she'll be a millionaire easily.   Then it's on to the next challenge.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 10:51 PM

I didn't however say that the war and economy issues will continue to be negative for President Obama.

What I said is that IF that is the case, he will have serious problems--from any Republican.

And she is in a very good position to win the lion's share of primaries. At this point--it's still much too far in the future to predict anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 11:00 PM

I misspoke.   She's already a millionaire.   Now she builds up debts among fellow politicians by speaking (for conservatives, of course).   Then in 2011 she collects on those debts.   Sound familiar? Check Reagan's trajectory.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 01:48 AM

You're right, Ron, and that's exactly what Schwarzennegger is counting on. Mark my words. ;-) You vill be living in ze Fourth Reich by 2013, und you vill luff it! Or else.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: kendall
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 05:45 AM

I would like to see Dick head Cheney and Caribou Barbie run for the big office. It would be a one way trip to the dustbin of history where they would join the likes of Father Coughlin (sp), Westbrook Pegler and Joe McCarty.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 07:24 AM

Sorry.   The parallel between Reagan and Sarah is far stronger than between Sarah and Joe McCarthy, for instance.

There are all sorts of people, not just the great unwashed, who are ready to vote for Sarah.   And she, not Cheney, would be at the head of the ticket (in the dystopia I envision). Though he would make a classically typical VP--in the campaign at least.   Question of course as to whether she would let herself be steered while in office as much as the faux cowboy we just had for 8 years.

I was talking yesterday to a friend of mine at work here in the DC area (who's also in the same choral group). He's a tenor--but I don't hold that against him.

I asked him if he could imagine voting for Sarah.   He's intelligent, articulate, a computer expert, and a good-natured guy. And very conservative politically, though not musically.   Voting for Sarah?. He immediately said:   "Absolutely."

Watch out, people.   Sarah is a big threat. Far bigger than anybody else on the Republican side at this point.   And for the reasons I cited: The passionate support she has. And the chance to make inroads among women.

The broken record yet again: it all hinges on the war and the economy.   Both have to improve drastically between now and 2012, or President Obama has big trouble.   From any Republican.   And Sarah is the strongest.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: kendall
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 08:20 AM

Logic and politics have never been Mates.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 09:59 AM

right on Bee dubya ell


Many of you have forgotten that this man has had 6 heart attacks.
I have thought if he had a pig or a baboon heart transplant he might become more human.

Gravitas my ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Cheney in 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 06:19 PM

Thanks, Donuel, for your unbiased observation. If you read carefully you might find that I said "gravitas" to those who might vote for Sarah.   Interesting that you put yourself in that category. You learn something new every day.