Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth

Subject: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: j0_77
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 08:03 PM

Several News agencies are reproting the riots at Woodstock but not reporting the 'whole' story. For those interested in what took place - the 'vendors' were overcharging/markup for water food etc., After dark my source reports, the crowd went nutzz, ripped up Semi Trailers set fire to 'vendors' stalls etc.

Comments ??

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Bert
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 09:00 PM

At Woodstock 94 Pepsi was going for $8 a bottle.

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: j0_77
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 09:11 PM

Thanx Bert :)

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 09:12 PM

I heard on the news all the complaints that the good name of Woodstock was being besmirched. Of course, what the organizers were complaining about was that the commercial worth of Woodstock(TM) had been devalued.

Three days of peace, love, music, arson, looting, and rioting...

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 09:24 PM

as always, it is a case of "one bad turn deserves a worse one"...*sigh*...reminds me of the escalation between my brother & I in the back seat of the car..."well, he started it".....and , of course, stupid rip-off vendors DID start it....but violence and burning? ....

(funny...I never seem to hear of looting and rioting at a folk concert...and people ask me why I go to so much trouble to differentiate between music styles and attitudes)

Bill D...old, grumpy, and cynical...

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Chet W.
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 09:26 PM

I've been to events where vendors had an unfair advantage and did price-gouge unconcionably. Most of those events, including movie theaters, I choose not to attend anymore. Did the audience at this year's Woodstock have no way of knowing that they would be taken advantage of? Did the story of $8 Pepsis in 94 not get around? That knowledge would have been enough to keep me from going. If they, the audience, had a problem with this setup, couldn't they choose either to a) not go, or b) try to pressure the promoters to ban price-gouging? It's not like there's some kind of civil right to attend an outrageously commercialized event to begin with and to be treated fairly with respect to prices. There was absolutely no excuse to act like a bunch of animals and criminally destroy property. Let them know what you think of them by not going next time. That will get results.

Chet

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 10:04 PM

Very few concerts I've attended were worth $25, and I understand that many performers are now commanding much higher prices. It also isn't worth it to me to pay the surcharge of three or four bucks to Ticketmaster (or whomever) for the privilege of paying for a ticket. However, that's the cost of concerts nowadays. Part is because people want to make money quick, and part is because it's a big financial risk to put on a concert that might well cause a riot.
I think the most expensive concert I attended this year was the Rick Fielding concert in Washington, DC. Was it ten bucks?
Anybody with a lick of sense could figure out that no businessman can recreate the magic of the original Woodstock - and the original Woodstock also had its share of problems. So, if people want to spend their money on an imitation Woodstock, they get what they deserve.
And no matter how much of a ripoff it is, it's not a justification for violence. j0_77, I don't think it's news that vendors at concerts are routinely guilty of price-gouging. I don't think news agencies are hiding anything by failing to report that.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 10:21 PM

"You can't go home again."...........Thomas Wolfe

catspaw

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 11:18 PM

"you can't step into the same river twice"....Heraclitus

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Sourdough
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 11:35 PM

"History doesn't repeat itself - it rhymes."

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From:
Date: 26 Jul 99 - 11:43 PM

Mark Twain

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 12:30 AM

"Good God, we're all so full of shit!"...Spaw

Spaw

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Art Thieme
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 12:32 AM

You can step into the same river twice if you run downstream at the same rate of speed the water is flowing.

(Severn Darden (Second City--Chicago-'60s)

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: j0_77
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 12:43 AM

Wonder where that river is :) nope violanything don't do it for me - prefer Guitar and Singing :)

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 12:43 AM

whatever happened to Wavy Gravy?

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: WyoWoman
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 12:49 AM

I had the pleasure of interviewing Wavy Gravy for a story when I first started working for a paper in Albuquerque years ago. He was running a clown camp for kids in the mountains of New Mexico. Last I heard, he was still at it, but that's been a few years. I loved interviewing him -- and I wanted to go to his clown camp in the worst way.

Woodstock '99 could have used him, but they probably would've thrown empty beer bottles at him or something. Several of my daughter's friends were planning on going to that concert. I'm SO glad she got a job in California...

ww

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 12:52 AM

yes, I can see him as a master of clownship.

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Duckboots
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 12:56 AM

"People who live in glass houses, should get drapes."

"A rolling stone gathers momentum".

"I'll letcha be in my dream, if you lemme be in yours."

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: rich r
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 12:57 AM

The behavior of a few miscreants and jerks cannot be condoned. I saw an interview on TV of a New York DJ who was at the affair who said that a good portion of the security people hired for the event, packed it in, got on a bus and left while the last two groups were still playing. You expect to pay outrageous prices at an event of that sort. Same thing happens at Disney Land or wherever. I think is is unconscionable for organizers to have daylong venues without providing a source of free drinking water. Even cattle at the stock yard get that. I don't know what the situation was at WoodTick 99. My son went to OzFest in western Wisconsin this year which was only one 12 hour day. He said he spent about $30 on beverages and didn't eat. The venue guards wouldn't let them bring anything in. He even had to thow away the disposable camera he had bought to take a few snapshots (He could have taken it back to the car, but would have had to get back in the end of the line). I've never understood why these high priced performers are so obsessed that some kids are going to take fuzzy pictures from too far away. I don't care to go to these type of events (In honesty I should qualify that, I went to a 26,000 person Garth Brooks concert in the local dome a couple years ago, but the tickets were only $20). AT the next WoodsTick, if there is one, the vendors will have to charge more to pay for their burned trailers and higher insurance rates. It's doubtfull many of the rabble minority at this event will ever be held acountable.

rich r

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 01:04 AM

The behavior of a few miscreants and jerks cannot be condoned. But the vendors who tried to rip off the crowd have been punished by the loss of their trailers, booths, and stock. And the organizers will be punished by losing the value of the Woodstock(TM) brand-name they tried to misappropriate to an event that was seemingly as badly organized as the first Woodstock in '69. They hypocritically flashed the peace sign at today's youth, and today's youth flashed back half of it.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: WyoWoman
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 01:05 AM

Yeah, but who'd really want to go? Are people THAT interested in a manufactured, commodified reality?

WW

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: DougR
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 01:16 AM

Price gouging by vendors justifies lawlessness? Hmm? I don't think so. Next time attendees should bring a jug of water, or drink a lot before they attend. Festivals of this type can provide great entertainment for a lot of people, but a small group of malcontents can ruin it for everybody. I'm sorry it turned out the way that it did.

DougR

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Chet W.
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 09:12 AM

Unless the TV images were manufactured or enhanced, it was an awfully large group of malcontents. Will they have the fest again? Sure, if they can afford the insurance.

Chet

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Bert
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 09:43 AM

Well I can only talk about '94 'cos that's the only one I went to (We took six teenagers).

It was a three day event. They stopped us at the gate and wouldn't let us take in any food or drink. In theory that is. We managed to take in a very large cooler of pies and sandwiches.

The first day was miserable with security guards everywhere upsetting everyone. You can't go here, you can't camp there and so on, everyone was miserable and complaining. On the second day the crowds were so huge that the security guards couldn't cope, so they gave up and left. After that things improved tremendously. Peace and love were allowed to roam free, everyone was happy and were helping each other as much as they could. We didn't see any violence or trouble whatsoever.

I don't know what happened this year but could it be that they had more security and got everyone totally pissed off?

I seem to remember another discussion here recently that suggested that if you leave people with no alternative, some will turn to violence.

Bert. (you don't have to condone something to understand it)

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: folk1234
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 09:45 AM

Just a warning to all. "If'n yer tinkerin' wit riotin' or any udder non-gentlemanerly behaviors at MUDSTOCK99 yer gonna have ta recon wit me personally. I'm a reckonin' that there be a crowd a linin' up fer Bet's dutch oven cobbler, and that's a fine sa'long thars a nobody a buddin' in front a me."

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Cara
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 09:52 AM

I don't think that the looting and vandalism were justified, but I've been to summertime events where water was inaccessible, and they took what you brought with you at the gates...it's terrible, and dangerous as well. There should be requirements regarding water availability that producers of these big outdoor events have to meet. I wouldn't pay $8 for a beverage either, and denying people liquid is cruel.

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 11:38 AM

*big grin*...through the magic of the internet, here is a column from todays Washington Post....Peace, Love, and Nyah, Nyah

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Fadac
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 11:41 AM

I've been to some Scottish events here in Ca. and the prices are a bit high. Water is $2.00 for an 8 oz bottle. And a long line to get it. BTW at Cosco (discount house) that same water goes for $3.50/case of 24. So we take our own water. The Scottish games are a bit differant, in that we take our RV and camp in that. As the games are usualy at county fair grounds, we can get hook ups about 60% of the time. We generaly cook our own food, (Big BBQ on Sat. night And Calighda (Gailc / party, I know I mispelled it.) We had 250 show up one night. Pipers, drummers, all sorts of music. The girls danced, was a magic night.

Ok, this isn't about Woodstock XX, just that there are other places to go, without problems. And if you like Celtic music...well check out your next Scottish Gathering.

-Fadac

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Matthew B.
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 11:58 AM

I'd rather just get together with friends and make the music ourselves. Then nobody can tell us what we can or can't do, and there's no need to burn anything except charcoals on the grill.

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Chet W.
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 12:38 PM

Absolutely, Matthew. This is just something you learn from experience. Sorry that so many people still have to learn the hard way. Most fests I have been to in the last twenty years or so have not allowed you to bring in any beverages or food, obviously following an agreement with vendors that they would have a captive audience. Of course it's cruel to put unsuspecting people in such a bind, but what can also be learned fromt this is that big promoters have absolutely no interest in promoting art, creating a sense of community, or entertaining people for that matter. They want your money, and they'll do anything they can get away with to get it. Probably with this Woodstock thing everybody had insurance, but it will cost a hell of a lot more next time unless they change some policies about bringing in food and/or price gouging. One thing that's interesting about insurance is that there is no politics involved. They want the money, they calculate the risks, and if it looks good they do business. You may have noticed that big (and many small) rap concerts just do not happen anymore because the insurance risk makes it unprofitable. There's no judgement of the music or the values of the crowd - they want everybody's money, but they've learned from experience when they're likely to lose, so they don't risk it. I remember a fest in 1972 or thereabouts where they had the exact same arrangement, and even today at a particular "folk" festival near Asheville, NC, they won't let you bring in wine or beer, and they don't allow coolers on the field where people listen to the music, but they sure do have it for sale at interesting prices. Live and learn, my young friends.

Chet

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: annamill
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 01:41 PM

I was in Woodstock NY in '69. I was married to a Woodstock man and my beautiful daughter Amy was just born. The feelings of love and the desire to make peace are not to be described. We were hurting because so many of our beautiful young men had been and were dying. Young people reached out to embrace love. It was in your hearts. When people came together then... well, as I said it is not to be described. You had to be one with it. (excuse the Zen)

When I think of Woodstock, I always wonder if we (the human race) will ever have that again. The memory brings tears to my eyes. I was a real flower child, before there were "flower children".

I try to keep that feeling of love, even now, in everything I do in my life. It isn't always easy, but it usually is.

Love (see), annap

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 02:02 PM

Fadac..I go to the Scottish games in Alexandria VA, and I have a two-wheel cart I built, on which I take a cooler, chair, umbrella, tape recorder, camera...etc!...no one EVER gave me any hassle about it!...they had beer for sale, but they didn't fret about me maybe having my own..they seemed to have plenty of sales without worrying whether they got 'em ALL...very reasonable, very calm, very pleasant..

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: LEJ
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 02:27 PM

Woodstock was a microcosm and example of changes that were happening in the youth culture and the general value systems in 1969. Unfortunately, so is Woodstock 99.

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Melodeon
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 02:53 PM

can't help but compare Woodstock 99 with Sidmouth (every year) Perhaps the beer is a penny or two more expensive than the rest of the year but no one feels that they are being ripped off. I can't imagine a folk festival crowd rioting somehow, perhaps we are enjoying the music and are too exhausted from all the dancing. This is not a condemnation of what allegedly happened at Woodstock as someone said, you had to be there.

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Mike Strobel
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 03:02 PM

Woodstock-99 When a small area of this size becomes the 3rd largest city in New York State and the combined efforts of the police as well as the 224,825 people in attendence make it a great weekend, then I'd say, Woodstock-99 was a true success. However, when we sell newspapers/media we need to dwell on the negatives in order to create excitement and sell the product. A car crash in the headlines is a more effective headline, over," 94% of the cities seniors passed their Honors English exam ". Was the shenagigans at the end called for , probably not, but it sure will derive more media exposure than the acts of good will that were also present. Our own newspapers in Rochester, N.Y. ( Gannett Newspapers ) & National coverage on MTV were so consumed on the issues of nudity, I felt the reporters both male and female were completely sophmoric in their reports. I was there in 1969 and my 18 year old daugher was at 1999, so I followed the weekend very closely. If the attendee enjoyed themselves and the music without confrontation then the spirit of peace, love , music ( all styles and types ) and understanding lives on...................which is the true spirit of the festival, not the few isolated incidents that sell the 6:00 news....................... Regards , Mike

Subject: RE: Woodstock 99 ..the Media and the Truth
From: Bert
Date: 27 Jul 99 - 03:35 PM

And the picture here looks really contrived.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000289242712046&rtmo=Vw68gMMK&atmo=ggggg3wK&pg=/et/99/7/27/wwood27.html

Let's set fire to a few boxes and create a 'holocaust'

Bert.