BS: Put BS on a different page

Subject: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:18 AM

I recently saw yet another thread which I found objectionable and I realized the time had come to start a thread with my actual desire.

I think that BS and music should be separated on a different page so that the Mudcat music forum doesn't turn off the hoards of folks who might be inclined to participate in the music forum if it weren't for the topics which crowd the bottom of the page. The BS detracts mightily from the intent of the forum, lessens it, and the community of folks who enjoy it can enjoy it no matter what page it is on.

Please Max, move the BS to another page.
hg

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:21 AM

You don't have to read anything in BS. That is your choice. Just stick to teh music area. BS is there to cover any subject that isn't related to Music.

HTH

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:21 AM

BS is separate from the music threads. Those that don't like to look at the BS section don't have to scroll down. Where's the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:23 AM

IF you object to threads, why would putting them on another page change that? You have to deliberately focus your attention on them in order to find them objectionable, and you are not addressing the source of your problem by suggesting they go off page.

They are clearly marked as non-music. Of the whole category bothers you, you can focus your attention above the line.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:25 AM

This could be a long running thread :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:38 AM

If you reset your cookie, you can choose to not see ANY BS thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:39 AM

Tick the Filter Out box at the top of the thread titles, put
"BS" in the box and hit Refresh. They will all be filtered out and all you will see are music threads with a few possible exceptions, such as obits.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: pdq
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:39 AM

Just go to your membership page.

There is a spot to click on which makes the BS section go away: "BS filter".

You can go back and reverse the setting choice anytime you want.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:41 AM

You can do it without a cookie or membership, following the steps I posted.

Subject: BS: Put the BS threads on a different page
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:42 AM

I think the BS thread should be on a different page. The BS detracts mightily from the potential for the forum to return to its former level of scholarship. The BS, especially the gynecology threads cheapen and drive away folks who are offended. I realize th emonopolizers want to keep Mudcat the way they have created it by monopolizing with thousands of crappy posts but I want it changed.

And clones, stop erasing threads like this because you want the mudcat your way.   

Max change the BS to a different page.

harpgirl

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:49 AM

So your wants are more important than other peoples?

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:49 AM

newcomers can't do this. their contributions are being lost. out forum is cheapened. It's not about how I handle my page, folks. It's about what it looks like to the rest of the world and what we lose in credibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Alice
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:50 AM

Some people are attracted to being able to post questions or other topics than music to discuss with the mudcat community. "Gynecology threads cheapen"??? Really?

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:50 AM

my opinion is just as valid as other people's. I can express my wants. This argument is obfuscation.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 11:50 AM

.......or leave the BS on this page & put the music on a more sensible page, or .........

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 12:00 PM

obfuscation =   factious nob!

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 01:05 PM

I'm gonna agree with hg on this one.

The "Filter Out" function doesn't address the issue. It requires that one exercise an option to NOT view the BS section. That's backwards. It would be far more newcomer-friendly to have to exercise an option TO view the BS. "Filter Out" also requires a modicum of familiarity with how things work around here, and that's something a newcomer doesn't have. By the time a noob figures out how to avoid the BS, he's already stepped in it.

There's already a "BS/Non-music threads below" button, but all it does is scroll down the page. Why not change its function? Make clicking it a requirement to access the BS section. Then, if someone get's offended by what's there, tough shit. Nobody made him click the button.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 01:12 PM

I disagree, HG - I think the simple system here works well, including a BS section, on the same scroll, for folkies to discuss other current affairs, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 01:16 PM

"I think the BS thread should be on a different page. The BS detracts mightily from the potential for the forum to return to its former level of scholarship. The BS, especially the gynecology threads cheapen and drive away folks who are offended. I realize th emonopolizers want to keep Mudcat the way they have created it by monopolizing with thousands of crappy posts but I want it changed.

And clones, stop erasing threads like this because you want the mudcat your way.   

Max change the BS to a different page.

harpgirl "


Max, is there any way I can filter out people who have no sense of humour?

Is there any way I can filter out people who want Mudcat to be run *their* way?

Is there any way I can filter out people who go running to teacher to tell tales on posters they don't like?

Is there any way I can filter out people who read every single thread every day, then write and complain that they don't like this thread or that thread?

Is there any way I can filter out people who seem unable to understand that you don't have to read *anything* in any thread at all, let alone the BS section itself?

Is there any way I can filter out people who don't understand that Mudcat is not about scholarship alone, but that it's a living, thriving community of people who love music and who love much more in life too?

And finally, is there any way I can filter out pratty people who choose to send me a PM telling me to go away because I don't contribute to the music section and they don't like what I write...especially when those people are called.....'harpgirl'?

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 01:39 PM

I think it is fine to offer suggestions and preferences, but outright demands of a volunteer owner and assistants is not what I would prefer. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: gnu
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 01:43 PM

Hahahahaaaaa.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: kendall
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 01:50 PM

mg I agree with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 01:58 PM

But we are not allowed to discuss how Mudcat is run, on pain of excommunication.
☺ ☻

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 02:09 PM

How about instead...we put protests against the BS section on a different page? And then we could have yet a third page for protests against THAT page! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 02:19 PM

Ooh, YES! :0) I vote for that!

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 02:45 PM

When you are all finished taking the piss out of hg, take a good hard look at the forum. Change is good. And certainly it has changed. But not always for the better. I have no demands and no suggestions. Just wish Max would take a good hard look and decide where the future of Mudcat lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Maryrrf
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 02:57 PM

I regularly skip over threads that look offensive, not interesting, etc., and anybody else can do the same. In order to get to BS you have to deliberatly scroll down to it and it's clear that the threads below the line aren't about music. If you only come to Mudcat for the music there's no need to even look at BS. Nor do I see how it would put newcomers off if they're coming either to learn or contribute about music - and that is what leads most people to Mudcat in the first place. All the music threads are above the line, and the music section is the first thing they'll see when they get to Mudcat. Now they might get put off if they post a question or comment and then are jumped all over by harsh critics and nit pickers, but that's another problem. I think the Music and BS divisions work fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 02:59 PM

I think what you have here is a cross-section of people who are for the most part getting elderly. Various things tend to happen with such groups of people. They yearn for things to be more like they were in their youth, but the world keeps changing around them, and there's nothing one can do about that. One gets physically less flexible and various things get harder to do. One is afflicted with aches, pains, illnesses, etc. A lot of people react to that by getting cranky, argumentative, and cynical. That makes them harder to get along with.

Another thing I noticed was how badly the mood soured around here after 911 happened. It was a profound shock to the whole world when that occurred, and the world has not gotten over it yet.

Furthermore, we've seen a series of economic shocks that have threatened people's security.

And I think that accounts for a great deal of what has changed on this forum in the past 10 years or so. I don't think it's that the BS section or the BS threads themselves have damaged the forum, I think it's an overall shift in people's general moods that has done so.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 03:14 PM

As long as the laissez faire attitude persisits, and the anything goes philosophy rules, then this site will never again be a decent site which is welcoming to all.
The sort of insulting, poor taste, and rude posts that are allowed to remain undeleted appal me.
You all know I have on occasions taken issue with Lizzie Cornish, but I found the fact that the thread which Joe just closed, broke every rule on personal attacks, which he has stated many times, are not allowed. Yet it was allowed to remain!
I wonder if it had been different prtagonists, whether it would have been allowed to remain as long as it did.

Subject: RE: BS: Put BS on a different page
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 03:19 PM

Well, my first thought was that if Harpgirl didn't like BS threads, she could simply log in and check the BS filter on the Membership page and never have to look at another BS thread, ever again.
But she has a point.

I really would like to see Mudcat as a valuable music resource and a peaceful, pleasant place to be; but oftentimes that isn't the case. Sometimes, Mudcat is downright embarrassing. Our local nitwits are slugging it out in the "Tower of London" and "Show of Hands" threads, and one wonders how threads on such topics and turn into fistfights. There are days I'd like to put all that crap where outsiders couldn't see it.

We've had this discussion over and over through the history of Mudcat. I came in January, 1997; and there were already discussions about whether certain subjects were suitable for discussion. I was very glad when Jeff worked out what I still think is a very simple and elegant solution - moving non-music threads to the bottom half the page. That way, people have to go looking for BS - but it's not hard to find. And since it IS on the same page, people can't really complain too loudly about our moving a non-music thread to BS; and we don't have the problem of having duplicate threads in the Music and BS Forums, started by people who want to ensure full coverage.

So, the short answer is that I'm sure that Max will read this request and consider it. I don't think he'll change what we have, since what Jeff devised is a pretty good compromise. People who are logged in can view the Forum exactly the way they want to see it - but they can't control how visitors see us.

And as John MacKenzie says, we don't generally allow threads about how Mudcat is run, but I was going to chalk this thread up as a technical suggestion for now and let it run until it gets nasty.

But it just got nasty, so it's closed.

John thinks it's horrible that multiple personal attacks in a thread were not deleted. I agree that it's horrible that there were multiple personal attacks in the thread, so I closed the thread so it will drop off the Forum Menu tomorrow and be forgotten. We could argue about that for a long, long time - and it really won't make much difference tomorrow when the thread drops off the Forum Menu. My preference is for closing, and John's is for deletion - and arguing about how appalling one or the other preference is, doesn't do Mudcat any good. That's why we no longer allow threads discussing Mudcat moderation policy. If you have a complaint about how Mudcat is run, contact Max or Mick or me by e-mail or personal message.

-Joe-