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'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!

Vic Smith 05 Dec 09 - 09:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Dec 09 - 09:56 AM
maeve 05 Dec 09 - 11:04 AM
katlaughing 05 Dec 09 - 11:34 AM
Leadfingers 05 Dec 09 - 12:03 PM
MGM·Lion 05 Dec 09 - 12:19 PM
Vic Smith 05 Dec 09 - 12:38 PM
Vic Smith 05 Dec 09 - 12:47 PM
Vic Smith 05 Dec 09 - 12:54 PM
Gervase 05 Dec 09 - 01:48 PM
MGM·Lion 05 Dec 09 - 01:57 PM
Linda Kelly 05 Dec 09 - 03:17 PM
SteveMansfield 05 Dec 09 - 04:10 PM
GUEST,PeterC 06 Dec 09 - 03:20 PM
Leadfingers 06 Dec 09 - 03:38 PM
Tattie Bogle 06 Dec 09 - 03:58 PM
Leadfingers 06 Dec 09 - 04:32 PM
Suegorgeous 06 Dec 09 - 04:33 PM
Valmai Goodyear 07 Dec 09 - 02:15 AM
Sandra in Sydney 07 Dec 09 - 04:51 AM
Folkiedave 07 Dec 09 - 05:10 AM
Vic Smith 07 Dec 09 - 05:53 AM
Valmai Goodyear 07 Dec 09 - 05:58 AM
MGM·Lion 07 Dec 09 - 06:00 AM
Mark Powell 07 Dec 09 - 06:32 AM
Folkiedave 07 Dec 09 - 06:45 AM
MGM·Lion 07 Dec 09 - 07:21 AM
Vic Smith 10 Dec 09 - 09:28 AM
Valmai Goodyear 10 Dec 09 - 10:38 AM
Vic Smith 30 Jan 10 - 05:52 PM
GUEST,PeterC 31 Jan 10 - 06:48 AM
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Subject: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 09:49 AM

Today's The Guide in The Guardian has errors in their Rock & Pop section in their mention of the appearance by Pete Morton, Maggie Holland & Chris Parkinson at the Royal Oak in Lewes on Thursday 10th December (or for that matter in Colchester on Monday) as follows:-

1] It is Maggie Boyle and not Maggie Holland who will be appearing.
2] The trio are not an indie act from Nottingham but a trio of very talented top folk performers who will be presenting their lovely show "The Magical Christmas Tree"
3] The Royal Oak is not in the High Street in Lewes but in Station Street.
4] The phone number they quote is not the one that we supplied. It should be 01273 478124.

Four major mistakes in twenty words. Not bad even by The Grauniad's standards!

If you would like an accurate description of what the evening should be like have a look at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~tinvic/news.htm#dec10

If you would like to listen to individual tracks of the three artists concerned go to http://www.myspace.com/royaloakfolklewes


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 09:56 AM

Our local paper was great. They used to make so many mistakes that we used purposely put inaccuracies in our blurb. We once advertised that young up and coming guitarist, Marty Cartin was apperaing and it was the only time they printed it exactly!

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: maeve
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 11:04 AM

Thank you for the links. I've enjoyed performances by each fine musician and would love to hear them together in this program.

maeve


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 11:34 AM

Thanks from me, too. Excellent. I esp. like the song "2 Brothers." Very poignant.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 12:03 PM

That is aside from the question - Why are these three superb FOLK artists listed as 'Pop and Rock' ?


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 12:19 PM

Coz, Leadfingers, that's the perverse & bloodyminded Grauniad ? I used to burst bloodvessels in the ¼-century I was one of their theatre, folk &c critics ? for some reason they think it more PC to identify it as pop/rock because that's less elitist ? or something.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 12:38 PM

Leadfingers wrote:-
"Why are these three superb FOLK artists listed as 'Pop and Rock' ?"


Because the Guardian has no 'folk' section in its listings booklet - film, rock & pop, clubs, classical & opera, theatre, exhibitions, dance are the sections. Folk is way, way below the horizon.

To be fair to them, however, a lot of folk (and world music) gigs get mentioned in their 'Pop & Rock' section - They mention the events at the Royal Oak nearly every week, (though they have never yet managed to get all the details correct despite repeated emails from me)

Apart from the gigs by Morton, Parkinson and ahem!Holland this week there are gigs listed for:-
* Martin Simpson
* Asere
* Martyn Joseph
* Dragonsfly
* Chris Wood
* Steeleye Span
* Thea Gilmore
* Belshazzar's Feast
* Oysterband
* Molshe's Band
* St Agnes Fountain
* Jackie Leven
* Seth Lakeman
* Megson
* Rodriguez
* Fraser Nimmo
* Tim Van Eyken
* The Unthanks
* Kerr, Fagan & Harbron
* Kate Rusby
* Darren Nauendorf
* Tom NcConville & Dave Newey
* State of Undress
* The Madolinquents
* Aynsley Lister
* The Shee
* Ezio
* The Coal Porters
* Raurri Joseph
* Jez Lowe

Quite a high proportion of the overall section, in fact, and something there for all tastes. It's free advertising - all you have to do is email your gigs to arts@pa.press.net and you have a good chance of getting your (incorrect?) details mentioned.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 12:47 PM

I wrote
"* Tom NcConville"


Tom who? And here's me complaining about The Guardian's errors! (blush, blush)


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 12:54 PM

Oh God! and the Madolinquents Could I reassure Simon Mayor that I do not think that his remarkably fine band are off their heads!


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 01:48 PM

To be fair, it's not the Guardian's fault. The listings in The Guide are compiled externally by the Press Association and sold to a number of users across the UK, only one of which is the Guide.
The Guardian itself does have a separate 'folk' section in the Saturday Review supplement - well, folk and jazz. Robin Denselow generally reviews the folk and John Fordham the jazz.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 01:57 PM

Robin has been there for ever ? he was doing folk there before me [80s-90s approx], I was succeeded by David Ward, he by Tony Rose ... & then Robin came back & is still there, Blimey!


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 03:17 PM

I stopped using the Hull Daily Mail to advertise because they consistently got the time, price and Who's On wrong-we had people turning up for acts who had been on th previous week. I phoned them to ask them to stop and put it in writing -the following week we appeared in their paper -wrong time again. Chinese whispers would be more accurate.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:10 PM

I was moved to write to The Grauniad just the other day after this article about Bill Bailey:

I'm sure he's plays the bouzouki, not the bazooka ...

Also did everyone see Lucy Mangan's piece at the back of the weekend magazine this morning? A story based around our own national treasure Mr. John Tams ...


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 03:20 PM

Could have been worse, they could have contracted the listings to Time Out.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 03:38 PM

The Bazooka is a Greek Eight String Anti Tank Guitar .

But DONT ask about the Bonzonki !


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 03:58 PM

It's a very friendly dog that knocks you over, cross between a Borzoi and a Salooki?


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 04:32 PM

WOOF !!


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 04:33 PM

Still don't understand why the Grauniad and/or the Press Association can't call the section "Rock, Pop, Folk". It would make them look a lot more inclusive, and be more accurate... accurate? oh... forgot.... lol


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 02:15 AM

Feeling somewhat peeved with Viva Lewes, the local weekly online magazine, who have managed to announce the Lewes Saturday Folk Club in the wrong venue two weeks running depsite clear information. If the Sussex Express can get it right, surely Viva can? It may be a DFL's delight but it's supposed to be run by locals.

Local online magazines are potentially good places to advertise as you may be able to put in links to your guests' MySpace or YouTube pages; people are in a good position to Google your guests as they read even if the links aren't there.

Valmai


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 04:51 AM

on the other side of the world, in another country ...

I've given up sending ads for my folk club to our paper (Sydney Morning Herald, Australia's oldest & most prestigous paper or something like that)

The company who compile their What's on must be related to the folks who do UK What's on.

A few examples -

A concert advertised AGAIN 3 weeks later! I got some interesting phone calls that time.

Venue phone number used - it's a Community Centre, where did they find it - it wasn't in my email & the office is only open part time & naturally not on Saturday.

And naturally emails with corrections are ignored.

They're not just picking on my concerts - a dance was advertised using venue & name of band, no mention it was a dance, so a bloke came to see the band in concert. He stayed a while listening to the music, & bought their dance book & CD, & got info about a music workshop, but he was expecting a concert.

sandra


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 05:10 AM

Fed up with crap journalists I wrote my own press story for a well-known folk festival in the south of England in Devon.

I put in the middle of the story a series of quotes and suggested they picked the one they liked.

They just printed the stuff verbatim. The beginning and the end were OK. The middle seemed like gibberish.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 05:53 AM

Valmai wrote:-
Feeling somewhat peeved with Viva Lewes....


You don't need to tell me. They consistently get our details wrong. Harking back to to the opening post about Thursday's gig at the Royal Oak. Well, unlike the Grauniad and/or the Press Association , Viva Lewes did get the date, time and artists correct but then they went on to say that the event was free admission, both in their printed magazine and in their internet circular.
So that's no fee for Maggie, Pete and Parky on Thursday!!!!!
You do your best to get your club publicised locally and nationally - all they have to do in this day and age is to cut'n'paste from emails containing the details.
Not that difficult, I would have thought.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 05:58 AM

We'll have to burn them in effigy, it's the only language they understand.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 06:00 AM

That is part of the trouble I think, Vic ? the old art of 'sub-editing' is being entirely forgotten now that no-one works with hot-metal any more, but just edits by cut&paste on a screen. The specialist whose job was to make sure copy read coherently and was free of literals and other misprints isn't to be found around the office any more, I suspect.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Mark Powell
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 06:32 AM

This reminds me of the time when I lived in Oxfordshire and the Oxford Mail ran a story about my band. Apart from the band name and the instruments played, every other fact was wrong, including the names of all the members.

What made it all very strange was that none of us had been approached or interviewed by anyone from the paper. Perhaps someone saw us at a gig and made everything up?


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 06:45 AM

Newspaper makes things up. Shock horror :-)


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 07:21 AM

This sort of thing has gone on a long time, in fact. One sometimes suspects they do it on purpose as some sort of joke. Peter Bellamy & I could think of no other explanation when we listened together 32 years ago to Radio4 Kaleidoscope's review of his ballad opera 'The Transports', which I had recently named as my Folk Record Of The Year in The Guardian. They began with a couple of verses of Martin Winsor singing Norwich Gaol; after which one of those Kaleido-voices they all had informed us that this was a track from this new album sung by one 'Peter Tawney' [for those who don't know, no such person: presumably their own amalgam of PeterBellamy & CyrilTawney?]. We just looked at one another and burst into helpless laughter ? there didn't seem to be any other possible reaction to a Beeb guru who couldn't even read a bloody record-sleeve. I am constantly reminded of the sneezing child in the Duchess's song in Alice in Wonderland ? I swear they only do it to annoy because they know it teases.

Sorry if this a bit drifty ? but it felt relevant to all these complaints.


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:28 AM

Congratulations to Viva Lewes! On their weekly web circular just received, for tonight's attraction at the Royal Oak in Lewes, they managed to get things right! (No reply to my email of last week, however) This week, they put:-

Thur 10th. Morton, Parkinson and Boyle. Magical Christmas Tree Tour. Royal Oak, 8pm, £7

However,as for the Lewes Saturday night club..... well, I expect Valmai or Bryan will be here before long.....


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:38 AM

Egad, what a shower. I emailed them immediately after last week's double error and they've repeated it this week. They've left us off next week's listing altogether, which is perhaps a mercy in the circumstances, but mystifying as they phoned me yesterday to check our first two dates in January.

Valmai


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: Vic Smith
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 05:52 PM

They are at it again!

Today's entry in The Guide in The Guardian lists our event in Lewes on Thursday:-

* Martyn Wyndham Read & Iris Bishop Folk singer-song writer (wrong)
The Royal Oak
High Street (wrong it is in Station Street)
phone 01273 ****** (Well I won't repeat the number - but it is wrong - it should be 478124)

Well, I suppose it is an improvement - three mistakes this week instead of four as in the opening post!


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Subject: RE: 'Guardian' inaccurate - Shock! Horror!
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 06:48 AM

One problem with any listings service is that they will keep a database of venues. Very few can cope with the idea of different independent promoters using the same venue but with different pricing, contacts, times etc.

The golden rule is never to give a listings service a choice. Give start and end times and you will be listed as starting at the finish time. Give them full and concession prices and the concession price will be listed as the full price. Never expect them to extract details correctly from images of flyers, put the details in plain text. They will still make mistakes but minimise the opportunities.


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