Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Aeola
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 02:59 PM

I ,unfortunately, thought the programme was rather mediocre. However I think this is more to do with the actual recording within the studio. Have you ever noticed how the '''live rcording''' on TV falls short!!

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 01:27 PM

"PS. Really enjoyed "O Magnum Mysterium" Half an hour later."

Yup, me too, Ralphie, along with everything else in the 'Kings' prog.
Of course, it helps when the performer(s) can actually sing in tune, and hold a note at pitch.

Thea Gilmore and Jon Boden were excellent in 'Fire & Ice', best of the bunch by a very great deal.

And I'd go along with Pete's (Burton Coggles's) suggestion re putting 'Kerfuffle' on next Christmas. A great band.

IMHO, of course, others will no doubt disagree and that's fine, it's their entitlement to do so.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 06:45 AM

Having read all the various comments on this programme, and having watched it again last night.
My conclusion is......
Bloody Good.
Could you lot have done better?
Must go....I have some nits to pick..
Ralphie
(Well done to the Beeb for booking the show in the first place, and to all the performers for making it work)
PS. Really enjoyed "O Magnum Mysterium" Half an hour later.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 06:31 AM

Forgot to say in the lateness of the hour - a very happy and peaceful Xmas to all!

Isn't O come Emmanuel a hymn rather than a carol? used to be about my favourite at school, and never heard anyone sing it since - what a gorgeous treat.

I unexpectedly enjoyed the Unthanks last night, having been very disappointed when seeing them live recently.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: LesB
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 05:39 AM

I finally got around to watching it last night on my PVR and after the lambasting it got on here I wasn't expecting to enjoy it,but I did. Bellowhead were their usual exellent selves, but it doesn't work as well on TV (you have to feel the Bellowhead sound). The Unthanks bleak midwinter was as bad as I expected, I'm always dissapointed by them, I feel I ought to like them cos Rachael can sing o.k. on her own, but it's this breathy over arty approach that kills it for me. Theo Gilmore never heard of, thought it was agood song & she's got a good voice. Never heard Lisa Knapp before, liked her version of Coventry carol if a bit high in the register & breathy for my taste at times. Jim Moray I thought did a good job, although he is someone who I don't normally get. I think Paul Sartin did an exellent job comparing. All in all a nice way to round off Xmas Eve.
Merry Xmas
Les

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 09:40 PM

Well, sorry but I thought it was ****ing brilliant (and I'm usually the first to hate and deride and put down corny slushy stuff). Lisa Knapp's (whom I've never even heard of) rendition of Coventry Carol was stunning. Moray's Emmanuel was imperfect and heartfelt and wonderful. Actually, so was most of it... Imperfection rules!!

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:40 AM

Vic Smith makes an excellent point; in my view the Transatlantic shows find favour because they offer an image of intimacy and authenticity, qualities that folky folk usually revere (and often with good reason). But the show puts those images together as a conscious, artful construction, just as the recent BBC show opted to put together a different kind of construction.

Both are artifice, but of different kinds.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: evansakes
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:21 AM

You don't have to appear on a televised karaoke game to qualify for releasing a seasonal single Effsee. Even the much lauded Unthanks have wares available in this year's Christmas market y'know...

Talking of Thea Gilmore though....having enjoyed her appearance on "BBC4 Christmas Folk" so much I went to her MySpace for a quick listen to the recorded versions of both songs she performed (That'll Be Christmas and Midwinter Toast) and found something else from her latest album that might be the best grumpy and anarchic Christmas song since 'Fairytale in New York'.

'St Stephen's Day' Murders (written by Elvis Costello) reminds me very much of family Boxing Days in years gone past. Her duet partner is a voice you should know well....in my opinion this would have been a GREAT one to have done with Jon Boden and Bellowhead at Shoreditch.

http://www.myspace.com/theagilmore

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Effsee
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 10:51 PM

..." her Christmas single"... WTF is that all about? X Factor?

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: EnglishFolkfan
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:49 PM

As pointed out in the link via TwickFolk above:

Serena Cross states
"I recently produced BBC Four's The Christmas Session, for which Thea and her husband-producer-guitarist-sometime co-writer Nigel Stonier turned up mid-tour to Shoreditch Town Hall, gamely donned Dickensian top hats and tails and immediately launched into a version of her Christmas single, helped out by folk musicians they'd never met before that afternoon."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcmusic/2009/12/christmas_records_day_17_thea.html#comments

A show and 13 out takes where there is no evidence of petulance or hissyfits by any performer only their professionalism to overcome difficulties and make it work certainly gets the thumbs up from me. Well done everyone and hopefully the production team will have learnt from the experience too.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 03:34 PM

"As for Lisa Knapp's arresting performance - what about her criminal record?"

Huh?

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Isawit
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 03:30 PM

But it did feature unpolished godawful folk-club amateurism. That's the problem. Never mind the thumb-up-bum naysayers - take your head out of your own.
As for Lisa Knapp's arresting performance - what about her criminal record?

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Gervase
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 02:59 PM

Just seen it on iPlayer and thoroughly enjoyed it. OK, so the sound could have been better, and some of the arrangements were a touch ragged, but huge fun and I wish I'd been there.
And I can see exactly why so may of the thumb-up-bum naysayers here hated it, and would have haed it sound unheard, because it didn't feature hours of noodling, nasal droning and unpolished godawful folk-club amateurism.
But sod 'em - they can carry on going to dying clubs while the rest of us enjoy what we like.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: mikesamwild
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 02:57 PM

I saw the lads on Breakfast trail and enjoyed Whiskey is the Life of Man, I thought ey oop New Pogues! Jon Boden's singing really well. Then the show was somehat disappointing because of venue, sound, lack of atmosphere etc but tthere wre some high spots too.


I still don't think the non folkie public would be too taken with it.
my missus said it was bit like the InterVarsity crowd we used to get at the pub she ran, up their own bottoms and too precious.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 11:19 AM

I enjoyed the Seeger Sessions. I also think that Springsteen did the only successful Superbowl half-time show. Being comfortable with your material, your venue and your audience has a lot to do with it.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Marje
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 11:06 AM

I'm beginning to think I'd prefer a broadcast made up of the out-takes - I liked both that and Shepherds Arise much more than most of what was broadcast.

Marje

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: evansakes
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 10:21 AM

Here's a rather nice performance scooped up from the cutting room floor (scroll down to the bottom of the page)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcmusic/2009/12/christmas_records_day_17_thea.html

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Marje
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 08:52 AM

Good question, Vic. Do we have a problem with seeing "folk" dressed up and presented with fanfare and fuss? And if so, why?

I must say my favourite way of experiencing both music and song is either in a participative session in a pub, or in a small club setting (like the Royal Oak) where we can see and hear our favourite performers close up, without amplification. So yes, that could have a lot to do with my preference for the format used in the Transatlantic Sessions - it preserves the intimacy of those small-scale settings.

I do also enjoy seeing individuals and bands on a big stage (say, at a festival) but rarely find it as rewarding as in a more cosy, personal setting.

Perhaps it's that much of this music is somewhat fragile, and not suited to flashy presentation. Some songs and tunes are better suited to a big-stage performance (The Mistletoe Bough, for example,fitted the music-hall format quite well with its overblown drama) but much of this material loses something of its special qualities on the big stage.

Or it could be, too, that I don't like to hear a big build-up given to an act, only to find that it's something like a dull floor-spot in a mediocre club. If the BBC is going to present a rare concert of folk, I'd like it to be absolutely the best that the folk world has to offer, because I see it as a showcase for a wider audience.

And of course, that's the problem: if lots of us feel like this, we'll fail to agree on what the lineup should be, as we have different tastes and standards.

But I'm not going to dismiss the whole effort and say the BBC shouldn't do it. I'm glad they put on the show, and I can see now that last-minute problems made it not quite the show they'd planned. On the other hand, I'm not prepared to grovel with gratitude that they gave us a folk show at all. There's no reason to not to share our opinions on what we liked or disliked about it, and I've found it very interesting to see what others thought.

Marje

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 08:02 AM

I should have added to my previous posts that, if I were to analyse the Royal Oak evenings that Vic and Tina organise, the same parameters apply. The evening is structured - tunes, residents, guest, break, floor spots, guest - and the room is properly prepared. The introductions are extremely well done and the floor spots are carefully chosen. Yes - the setting is smaller and more intimate than St. Luke's or Shoreditch Town Hall - but the same care and attention to detail is applied.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 07:57 AM

Personally, I don't think it's the setting as such that matters. It seems to me to be more about the performances themselves and the overall production styles and standards. I mentioned the June Tabor concert at St. Luke's, which I thought was wonderful. Looking back at that, what made it so good (IMHO) were:

1. The superb performance by June Tabor herself
2. The excellent musicians performing alongside here
3. The choice of material
4. The simplicity of the setting
5. The quality of the sound and camera work

Interestingly, I also absolutely loved the Springsteen Seeger Sessions concert at St. Luke's. If I remember correctly, there were 16 musicians playing on stage - many of them on a variety of instruments - and the overall atmosphere and production was stunning. I then saw a concert of the same things by Springsteen in the open air in Dublin - and it was just as good!

So, my summing-up would be that it's not so much the setting as a combination of things that make the occasion work.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 07:25 AM

Interesting questions raised by Vic, although of course many of the Transatlantic Sessions guests are more used to the concert stage than the "informal" session.
This is an interesting thread, though contrasts with the one on the fRoots message board on the same topic!
Derek Schofield

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Vic Smith
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 07:10 AM

A considerable number of posts ago, Marge said

"perhaps a production style more like the Transatlantic Sessions would be more effective."

.... and it raises the question of why is it that folk enthusiasts consistently find the atmosphere of Transatlantic Sessions so successful whilst they find their music presented on a grander scale to be something of a challenge to watch? Certainly, the performers seem to be just concentrating on their music rather than putting on a stage show on the TA programmes. Is it because the homely friends-getting-together-for-session-in-a-hotel set up is more suited to this essentially intimate homespun music than to a concert stage with a large audience? The TA session atmosphere is closer to the situation in which most enthusisiasts and participants encounter and enjoy folk music. I would be interested in reading people's reactions to these thoughts and their relation to the programme under discussion.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Hamish
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:44 AM

Yep: brill in parts, slightly embarrassing in parts, a couple of bits that were actually quite poor, but overall great fun.

Just like most folk events. ;-)

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Coldone
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 05:26 PM

Seems to me the problem was in the editing. Bellowhead's 'Remember Thou Oh Man' and the Unthanks 'Sad February' were cut, though the BBC does show them (and I think BH has it up on one of their sites). It was a good show, but could have been better... fewer (or better) Unthanks, as in the bit the BBC didn't use, more Bellowhead, more of the crowd singing. But the decorations in Shoreditch were very attractive and Christmassy and overall, I liked the show very much, though there are several perts in which I fast forward. Thank you BBC for giving folk music a viewing.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 04:15 PM

I don't think Christmas has started until I hear Oriente Partibus.

Me neither - although with me it has to be on The Clemencic Consort's classic 1979 recording La Fete de l'Ane in which they reconstruct a medieval Feast of the Ass, a piece of ritual reversal in which the entire Mass was inverted into a veneration of the ass & related misrule. Of course, tracking a copy of this down even on CD might prove problematic, but lovers of great & wild music can download the etire thing GRATIS from HERE

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 03:16 PM

"I think those of you planning to settle down to it on Christmas Eve (was it?) with a bottle of wine, or other favoured tipple, won't be disappointed."

Yeah, Punkfolkrockers post summed it up well too.
I might well give it another shot myself on one of the replays (isn't there half a dozen or so?)

Must confess - as already indicated - if the gauntlet is thrown, it's impossibly tempting not to take it up!

We're not all going to dig the same stuff, but this is a discussion board devoted to folk music, so when a discussion of folk music is 'invited' by opening a thread like this, discussion and differing opinion is what you're gonna get. Natch.

Frankly, successful music celebs such as those showcased on this Xmas prog, no doubt have their fill of sycophantic loveydom elsewhere anyway. And anyone wanting to censor honest, robust opinion on their fave acts probably aughta stick to "Mwah Mwah" MySpace.. ;-)

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 02:16 PM

I've just watched it on the iPlayer too and really enjoyed it. (I listened on phones and the sound was fine - if you're watching on tv it might be worth following the suggestion above and routing the sound through your hi-fi. The only thing I really disliked on the sound front was the acoustic guitar accomapnying Lisa Knapp - worst kind of electrified pick-up sound).

The atmosphere doesn't come across as well as being there, but when does recorded sound rival the live thing for that. The effect was still discernible and in B/H's Sloe Gin Set you couldn't help feel it (think the Orquestra Simon Bolivar Orquestra at the Proms a few years ago - same feel).

I agree with some of the opinions of individual performances cited above and disagree with others - but I don't see that that's a reason to describe the people I disagree with as whingey or wankers or anything else. What you like's personal and someone not liking what you like doesn't make them any more of a bad person than you are. So in the process of disagreeing with others, I'll say I did actually like the Unthanks' In The Deep Midwinter and B/H's Mistletoe Bough. And I though Lisa Knapp's Coventry Carol was one of the most arresting performances I've heard.

I thought the sense of enjoyment came across from the opening promenade entry to the end. (I did listen to the omitted Shepherds Arise and while that was really good, I think, the perhaps artistically inferior as a song, Jingle Bells was the better finisher).

I think those of you planning to settle down to it on Christmas Eve (was it?) with a bottle of wine, or other favoured tipple, won't be disappointed. One of my Christmas rituals since the 70s has been to play a record called something like A Mediaeval Christmas (the Boston Camerata) and I don't think Christmas has started until I hear Oriente Partibus. But I could easily play a recording of this concert instead to put me in a Christmas mood.

Mick

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 11:15 AM

Finally viewed this on iPlayer and enjoyed it - I wasn't expecting to as I've something of the "big whingey wanker" about me and I contributed to the autoharp thread. But I liked it so much I might even watch the Christmas Eve repeat on the 'proper' telly.

It sounds like it was lucky to go ahead at all given the line-up changes. Jim Moray was particularly versatile. Interesting comment above about the performers looking nervous. All I can say is you can't play slide guitar that well if you are nervous otherwise some unintentional tremolo creeps in!

May I suggest Kerfuffle if there's a follow-up next year?

Pete.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 04:04 PM

What a pity. That would have made a much better finale than what they did use.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 02:26 PM

This was cut from the final edit.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p005k006

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 02:09 PM

Just watched the first 15 minutes and loved it. Just like folk should be, to me anyway. Some brilliant, some, maybe, a bit below par, but all good fun and very enjoyable. Decided it would be better on the 'big screen' (Well, 37" anyway) so rather than watch it all on iplayer, I will record Christmas Eve's.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 07:36 AM

"That Gower Wassail is just spine tingling"

Yeah, everything they do is good. I wish more modern folk was as interesting, or moreso..

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Phil B
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 07:20 AM

Audio tip number 1187. Plug your television into your Hi Fi and turn it up nice and loud. You'll be surprised how much mixes tend to improve. More things come into focus that way. Only,however, in straightfprward stereo. Surround sound systems tend to make it worse depending how they are set up.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 11:49 PM

Suibhne

That Gower Wassail is just spine tingling especially at 4:30 am

Thanks for posting. I loved it.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 07:06 PM

Anyone watching the Liberty of Norton Folgate on BBC2 right now?? Strangely familiar vibe...

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,Dave Hunt
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:46 PM

Well I really enjoyed - (well most of it!) It would have been nice to have some other less well know carols - eg some of the wonderful Sheffield settings of While Shephers Watched. It was a change - and a pleasure - to hear an unaccompanied song- well sung by Jon and Sam. I though Bellowhead were their exuberant selves, and very good, as were Balshazars Feast -I also liked Jim Moray's excellent contribution - but did not like Lisa K- and really disliked the Unthanks - never have liked them and this confirmed my opinion. But overall - a jolly romp - and at least it was in prime time telly for a change.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:20 PM

Thanks FD

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:21 PM

I'd just like to add that I also enjoyed George's tar barrel song and I'm going to decline from commenting on the rest.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: PercyBysshe
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:59 PM

Some of my friends were in the audience and they certainly aren't Equity cardholders. The BBC invited people to apply for free tickets to the event. I think it was a names out of a hat thing.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:47 PM

"Who were the audience ? If the guy in the striped leggings is who I think it was (not going to mention names) then he is an actor I know."

I don't know his name, but he is the new fool for the Belles of London City, a morris jig trio who performed on the night.


"Were all the other dressed up people Equity Card holders too?"

No. It was an invited audience, and the invite specified:

"Suggested attire:

Dickensian Bustles, Burlesque and Boas, Flash Cats,
Vagabonds & Paupers, Pocket Watch & Chains and Grandmother's Finest Jewellery"

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:28 PM

The music hall song they sang - was this one. It is a "hidden or bonus track" on their latest record.

http://www.mysongbook.de/msb/songs/b/betsybel.html

Do not be mislead by the reference to Mudcat at the bottom of the list of singers. That links to a totally different song.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:18 PM

Well what a miserable, mean spirited lot you all are.

This was clearly meant as a light hearted take on Christmas and a little different from the usual Christmas entertainment and in that respect overall, it worked.

Sure there were aspects that could have been better. I also cringed when the Unthanks started on "In the Bleak Midwinter", but that was not because of the Unthanks performance, but because I cannot stand that ******* carol. I thinks it's awful.

I would have preferred some of the carols that are heard at singarounds and the like at Christmas rather than the well worn ones hear everywhere else, but if you are pitching at a more general audience, which I suspect this was, then compromises are inevitable.

No one has mentioned the Unthanks third song (whose title I do not know) but it was lovely music hall song, though Rachel perhaps did not "belt it out" enough, but her voice is not of that character.

Finally I thought the venue was gorgeous.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 03:10 PM

Who were the audience ? If the guy in the striped leggings is who I think it was (not going to mention names) then he is an actor I know. Were all the other dressed up people Equity Card holders too ?

I echo the catters who have suggested a more transatlantic sessions approach (so long as they don't fill it up with Cara Dillon but Karen Casey instead - that's just my presference)

A curious

Sarah

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:37 PM

I'm intrigued now after all the above... but as I want to watch it on my TV, I'm gonna wait for its chillout-hour Xmas Eve showing, sprawled happily in front of the log fire with a glass of wine, when I'll be more mellowed, Christmas-spirited and forgiving (if anything needs forgiving). And I'll enjoy Sam Lee if nothing else, I love his singing.

JM - heard you stepped in last night too, for Tim being taken ill... hope the show went well.

Sue

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:31 PM

"I wouldn't take anything he says too seriously either."

Aye - I only replied to this thread by way of responding to a "dare you to be the first baddy" posting, myself.
However, I remain unrepentant: the Unthanks as supposed "professional singers" were IMO appalling. Sorry but they just were. As an amateur singer myself - I was shocked at their performance... I could wax on and on, but I won't..

Whether I personally dug the *style* of some of the other performers is neither here nor there - but JimM & BellowH are certainly top-class as far as their competent musicianship & professionalism is concerned.
I find Jim's vocal styling somewhat derivative of 20thC Pop too (no doubt honest & unintentioned on his part) - BUT that itself is equally refreshing in terms of evident eschewing of a faux 'English Country' classic revival 'folk voice'.
I've found this 'taint' impossible to shed so far myself..

I would have loved to have heard Sam sing *solo* tho'.
It might have potentially been the best thing in the show.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: PercyBysshe
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:28 PM

JM - you are a gent!

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Marje
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:28 PM

Well, having posted the original "Heads Up", and having now watched it on playback, I think I'll say, "Don't bother after all!" I found it disappointing; the folk-meets-music-hall format just didn't work for me. The Unthanks' version of Bleak Midwinter was dire and dirgy, although their Tar Barrel song was much better. Of the rest, Thea Gilmore was the only act that really made me listen, while several others made me reach for the fast-forward button. Bellowhead seemed to melt into a cacophony of noise that was somehow much less than the sum of the parts. And I cringed when the MC was trying to show us just how wacky and weird the audience members were.

The whole thing often seemed overblown and self-indulgent, a style which may suit some music-hall material but doesn't suit much other music nearly as well.

To those who say, "Well go on then, what do you want?" I'd point to the BBC Folk Prom as a much better showcase for English folk music. If the production of an event like this BBC4 session is such a headache, then evidently it's not suited to this music - perhaps a production style more like the Transatlantic Sessions would be more effective.

Marje

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:25 PM

Don't worry - I'm not upset. You have every right to say/hold whatever opinion you want, but I'd rather try to give you an answer, seeing as I'm here reading the thread. No offence taken whatsoever.

what's a boy to do?

he's to do whatever he wants to do in whatever way he wants to do it, and not take any notice of anyone who tries to deny him that right.

As you've probably gathered a lot of the show was assembled in the hours leading up to the actual filming, due to line-up changes etc. so it was a bit rough around the edges in places. I also have my own reservations about the dressing-up aspect. But it was a fantastic thing to be part of and I enjoyed watching it back, flaws and all.

Wassail! to you too

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 01:02 PM

I know I shouldn't rise to this but...

Pay no notice to me, JM - as I say I only caught about 20 seconds of what you sang tuning in BBC4 briefly between Gavin & Stacey and QI to see what all the fuss was about. Anything I write here is by way of mouthing off & not to be taken too seriously - sorry it upset you. In the folk stakes I am a Bellamist and an Eldonite who listens to source singers for musical pleasure; I also dig Bowie, Lydon, Damo Suzuki, Mark E. Smith, Ian Curtis, Bernard Sumner and Eric Burdon - none of whom sing in their own accents. I love Robert Wyatt, but wince at Billy Bragg. What is a boy to do? Anyway, what you are doing is very important and I wish all power to the lot of you.

Wassail! - S O'P / Sedayne

PS - I am not WAV, though I do know the man & might heartily recommend him as being as jovial & appreciative a cove you're ever likely to meet in a singaround & an interesting singer too. And I wouldn't take anything he says too seriously either.

Subject: RE: Heads up - BBC4 tonight Christmas Folk
From: PercyBysshe
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 11:41 AM

I've watched about half of it so far. I'm a huge fan of Bellowhead and its various off-shoots so my opinions are bound to be somewhat skewed I supposed. I thought Paul Sartin made an excellent MC, and of the music I've seen/heard so far I really enjoyed BH's contribution, Belshazzar's Feast and Jim Moray. I'm not convinced by the Unthanks although some of their material is wonderful. I don't have a problem with the dressing up thing - that just added to the sense of fun I think. There was a feel of the "Good Old Days" about it, but as someone else has said, it was tongue in cheek and there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm just so pleased BBC4 has seen fit to show some more folk music at a time when people might actually watch it. I do wish they would televise the Folk Awards again. I discovered so much new music from the one occasion that I did.

I'll let you know what I think of the rest of it when I've had a chance to watch it.