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Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?

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GUEST,solstice boy 21 Dec 09 - 12:27 AM
DonMeixner 21 Dec 09 - 12:45 AM
DonMeixner 21 Dec 09 - 12:53 AM
mandotim 21 Dec 09 - 02:58 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 21 Dec 09 - 03:07 AM
Darowyn 21 Dec 09 - 04:05 AM
GUEST,Graham Bradshaw 21 Dec 09 - 05:51 AM
mandotim 21 Dec 09 - 08:18 AM
mandotim 21 Dec 09 - 08:31 AM
treewind 21 Dec 09 - 08:33 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 21 Dec 09 - 08:54 AM
treewind 22 Dec 09 - 03:06 AM
Big Al Whittle 06 Nov 11 - 11:08 AM
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Subject: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: GUEST,solstice boy
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 12:27 AM

I've read as much as I can from too many internet sources tonight and got even more unsure.
Please can anyone here with relevant technical experience
provide a definitive answer to this question ?

Re. "Y" format insert cables, 1 stereo jack and 2 mono jacks;
does it matter which mono jack plugs into either the input or output of any FX processor.

I've been told I need to buy some of these cables, but I'm worried in case I connect them the wrong way round and blow something up.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 12:45 AM

What are you hooking up? I'm guessing the FX processor goes between the instrument and the amplifier. Not likely that you'll blow up anything. Chord from the instrument to a line in on the FX. Line out from the FX to a line in on the amp.

Are your line 1/4" plugs or are they XLR (1/2" metal sleave with three prongs on one end, three holes on the other)

Why the slitter? Are you trying to run two instruments through one FX channel? This may work but I don't believe it will be really effective.

Good luck.

Don


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 12:53 AM

Well hell, Chords = cords
            Slitter = Splitter
            Line = lines

Don


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: mandotim
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 02:58 AM

Hi; I can't remember which way round the stereo plug is wired in terms of the tip and the ring, but most insert cables (good ones anyway) come with the two mono plugs labelled as 'in' and 'out' or 'send' and 'return'. These cables are used when you want to use an external effects machine (eg a compressor, Eq or reverb)on a single channel, subgroup or main mix on the mixer. Plug the stereo end into the appropriate insert hole on the mixer, the 'send' plug into the input of the effects box and the 'return' plug into the output of the effects box. Set up the effects box as you want it, and then you can usually mix the amount of FX you want in the mix at the mixer end.
Tim


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 03:07 AM

Mandotim has it nailed.
It's just a way of inserting an ancillary device. (Could be anything really, If you were mixing one of those X factor people, I'd recommend an Antares pitch shifter!) into the audio path of a channel.
Splitter leads should be marked send and return on the 2 Mono Jacks. If not, it won't cause any problems if you plug them in the wrong way round. It just won't work!
Swap them over, and all should be fine.
But don't worry, Your beloved H3000 FX box won't burst into flames. honest!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: Darowyn
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:05 AM

I normally wire inserts cable with the tip as send and the ring as return. The sleeve is the common screen.
However, some manufacturers make mixing desks that are wired the other way round, so sometimes I have to swap the mono jacks over.
Think about what happens if they are wrong.
The signal from the desk gets connected to an output on the outboard device, so no signal gets processed. The input from the device gets plugged into the return on the desk.
Thus no signal gets from the desk into the outboard, because there is no connection to the input to the device. No signal gets into the mixer, because there is no output from the device, since it is not receiving anything.
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 05:51 AM

Well said Dave.
I was just going to say: "Watch the polarity".

My leads all have one of the mono jacks labelled 'Tip' or with a coloured sleeve.

I have desks by Allen & Heath (which are Tip send) and Soundcraft (which are Ring send), so always have to watch out they are plugged the correct way.

If you have a channel which is 'dead', take the insert out and sound should be restored if their is no other fault. Swap the leads on the outboard device, re-insert the stereo jack in the mixer, and all should now work. An easy way to check is to see if there is any signal going into the outboard device (most have input meters/LEDs). If there is, at least you know you are sending signal correctly.

Hope this helps.

G


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: mandotim
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 08:18 AM

And another thing; if you are going to use a number of different effects boxes, it's worth investing in an insert cable loom, something like 4 stereo to 8 mono. It really helps to keep all the cables organised round the mixer.
Tim


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: mandotim
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 08:31 AM

I caught a bit of the X factor final the other night; these singers were supposed to be the best in this alleged competition. Decent ears (and anyone who has done sound for a while) could actually hear the pitch correction software kicking in. Not just once or twice, but through every performance. It's a sham, the whole lot of it. Whoever looks best wins, and that's it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: treewind
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 08:33 AM

"If you were mixing one of those X factor people, I'd recommend an Antares pitch shifter!"

I don't touch the stuff myself, but on R4 this morning they played a short excerpt of the "X factor" guy who's been knocked into 2nd place on the Christmas charts, and he'd already been very obviously autotuned to hell and back (as is currently fashionable, I understand)

You simply can't tell if people can sing in tune or not these days...

Merry Xmas all and apologies for snow drift

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 08:54 AM

I just wish I was the managing Director for Antares.....
He must be making a fortune out of these reality shows...!
(One day I'll tell you my "Boyband"...Live (sic) on the Radio story.
It couldn't be made up!).
Now back to the thread. Sorry!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: treewind
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:06 AM

Re Graham Bradshaw's post: I thought the assignment of send and return to tip and ring was standardised - I'm surprised that two mainstream products like A&H and Soundcraft don't even agree about this!

---
Also, a mystery voice has whispered the following advice in my ear, to pass on anonymously to the thread:

1. Sabine pitch correctors are good too - and you can set the attack so that slides are not ruined.

2. I usually put a ring of red insulting tape (that was not a mis-type) on the plug (or socket) of the breakout lead that connects to tip of the ring-tip-and-sleeve.
---
Anahata


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Subject: RE: Tech: Insert cables for mixer send/return ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:08 AM

way back when beer was tuppence a loaf, I used to use these leads for use with drawmer noise gates and compressors.


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