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Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act

GUEST,The Shambles 21 Dec 09 - 04:26 AM
GUEST 21 Dec 09 - 04:27 AM
GUEST 21 Dec 09 - 04:30 AM
Albert Einstein 21 Dec 09 - 04:38 AM
John J 21 Dec 09 - 04:41 AM
Folkiedave 21 Dec 09 - 04:43 AM
Albert Einstein 21 Dec 09 - 04:53 AM
Folkiedave 21 Dec 09 - 04:56 AM
Dave MacKenzie 21 Dec 09 - 06:08 AM
doc.tom 21 Dec 09 - 06:09 AM
Richard Mellish 21 Dec 09 - 10:43 AM
Richard Mellish 21 Dec 09 - 11:42 AM
GUEST 21 Dec 09 - 01:23 PM
Seamus Kennedy 21 Dec 09 - 10:18 PM
GUEST,Young Buchan 22 Dec 09 - 05:03 AM
Bonzo3legs 22 Dec 09 - 06:31 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 23 Dec 09 - 02:51 AM
GUEST,PeterC 23 Dec 09 - 11:50 AM
GUEST,Edward 23 Dec 09 - 07:22 PM
GUEST,The Shambles 24 Dec 09 - 02:42 AM
GUEST 29 Dec 09 - 11:32 AM
GUEST,PeterC 29 Dec 09 - 06:40 PM
GUEST,Shambles 30 Dec 09 - 05:02 AM
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Subject: Club falls foul of Licensing
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:26 AM

http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp?sectioncode=7&storycode=66037&c=1

This can't happen in Scotland, they said.


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:27 AM

Pub's folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
21 December, 2009

By Roy Beers

Business lost to church because of administrative oversight

A Scottish pub has been forced to "bar" a thriving local folk group from its premises because of an oversight in its application under the new Licensing Act.

Under the new rules pubs have to list in minute detail every activity they plan to host – from funeral breakfasts to country dancing – an approach licensing lawyers regularly complained would lead to confusion and loss of revenue.

The operating plan also has to specify when activities will be staged, and when and where under-18's will be allowed.

Now the Punch Taverns-owned Cross Keys pub in Stonehouse, Lanarkshire, has fallen victim to the bureaucracy, because its finalised plan doesn't include a folk club with under-18's also present.

The club's chairman, Billy Stewart, said: "We were gutted at the news, and we really had to consider calling it a day – even although the club is so well-established, and even although its young musicians have been so successful.


"We don't meet until 8pm, and that's when the younger members would no longer be permitted – so we had to leave the Cross Keys after eight brilliant years or split up the group, which we just couldn't do."

Cross Keys lessee Sandra Hilling said: "We are bitterly disappointed, and it is exasperating to say the least. I'm glad we're still seeing folk group members come in for a drink or food, but we have been so pleased to have the musicians here all these years – and now they're gone, and there's nothing we can do about it."

The bar could seek an amendment to its plan at a cost of around £800, on top of already hefty costs.

"We can't do that because of the major expense of the legislation we've already had to meet," said Sandra.

"The pub is doing fine, but our budget has been stretched by the cost of bringing in the regulations."

Meanwhile a local church has come to the musicians' rescue by giving them a hall to meet in, and adult members will even be able to bring in wine and beer.
ENDS


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:30 AM

See also
http://www.mudcat.org/ThreadNewMess-Sub.cfm


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: Albert Einstein
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:38 AM

Good!!! The Scotch are always given preferential treatment by our twisted gobernmenr!!

Ha Ha!!!


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: John J
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:41 AM

The Scotch???

JJ


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:43 AM

As far as I know - the law in Scotland is still different. The assumption is that live music does not constitute noise.


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: Albert Einstein
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:53 AM

Well I've always felt annoyed that the scottish(tch) are treated differently under most laws (eg tuition fees) so this brings a cynical smile to my face. It's really about money! £800 I believe that this is a one off charge So if this club is so successful why can't they raise the money? Special fundraiser gigs are the norm - or is it that they simply can't be bothered or have strong "principals" when it comes to paying for something.


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 04:56 AM

The Scots are treated differently because they have their own parliament.

Which bit of devolution do you not understand?


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 06:08 AM

The Scots have their own parliament because we always have been treated differently, for better or for worse,


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: doc.tom
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 06:09 AM

I thought the Scots had different laws bacause they retained their own system under the Union - not because of more recent devolution.
TomB


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 10:43 AM

I have tried to sign but have received no email for confirmation. AFAIK my email provider doesn't do any spam filtering, and at my end suspected spam is immediately flagged up for my decision whether to download it or delete it, so it's not that. Possibly the PM's petition site objects to my .eu email address. I may try again using a different email address, if it will let me.

Richard


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 11:42 AM

Me again, to confirm that the sign-up process worked when I tried an alternative email address -- which tends to confirm that the site objects to a .eu email address.

Ho hum!

Richard


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 01:23 PM

All about the Scottish Act.

http://www.infoscotland.com/licensingact/files/Licensing-Act-Briefing-Pack.pdf


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 10:18 PM

"Under the new rules pubs have to list in minute detail every activity they plan to host – from funeral breakfasts to country dancing..."

How the hell can you plan a funeral breakfast?

Does someone call the pub and say "I'm thinking of dying on March 12th, 2010, can you put me down for a funeral breakfast for 40 people on the morning of March 13th?"

Just wondering....


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST,Young Buchan
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 05:03 AM

You don't have to be dead for a funeral breakfast. See Finnigan's Wake in the DT.


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 06:31 AM

The Licensing Act is another example of the never ending idiocy we see from this hideous government. Roll on the general election so that we can get them out.


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 02:51 AM

Just changing the Government does not alter the fact of where the real power will continue to lie.

Any new Government, no matter how well-intentioned, still has to deal with the vested interests of civil servants, both at national and local level.

This powerful lobby hides behind the pretence that their views are expressed in order to protect the public, when the lobby acts only in its own interests.

The whole pretence that additional entertainment licensing is still needed is one that is maintained only for the interests of those who are employed to enforce it.


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 11:50 AM

Bonzo3legs, when did we vote for MSPs in a General Election? The act in question was passed in Holyrood not Westminster.

It is, however, typicial of civil servants to load an act with unnecessary complexity. The English licensing act as originally intended would, IIRC, have required similar operating plans. With hindsight it looks as if those of use south of the border got away quite lightly.


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST,Edward
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 07:22 PM

Scotch


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 02:42 AM

>It is, however, typicial of civil servants to load an act with unnecessary complexity. The English licensing act as originally intended would, IIRC, have required similar operating plans. With hindsight it looks as if those of use south of the border got away quite lightly.<

I agree with the fist bit but perhaps you can explain why you consider that England and Wales have gotten off lightly and why you think that these premises do not need to fill in similar operating plans as are required of the Scottish Act?


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:32 AM

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/Plea-to-back-music-campaign.5942761.jp


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 06:40 PM

Shambles - English licences do not require the operator to specify the opening hours of the folk club. They specify the general hours between which music may be performed and the general hours when minors may be admitted and the hours between which the pub may open etc.

I am assuming of course that the original report is accurate and the the level of detail that they refer to really is required. My very brief look at documentation on the Scottish act suggests that the Scottish operating plan shows what the pub MUST do where an English one shows what it MAY do.


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Subject: RE: Folk club falls foul of Licensing Act
From: GUEST,Shambles
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 05:02 AM

PeterC

Perhaps we could agree that whatever the small differences with the required operating plans may be, both pieces of legislation are loaded with unnecessary complexity and are not really helping any form of live music?


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