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BS: History of horses in US

GUEST,mg 04 Jan 10 - 01:48 PM
Rapparee 04 Jan 10 - 01:56 PM
pdq 04 Jan 10 - 01:58 PM
Ebbie 04 Jan 10 - 05:41 PM
pdq 04 Jan 10 - 06:45 PM
GUEST,Falco 04 Jan 10 - 06:57 PM
pdq 04 Jan 10 - 07:05 PM
robomatic 04 Jan 10 - 08:22 PM
open mike 04 Jan 10 - 08:40 PM
Ebbie 04 Jan 10 - 09:29 PM
Arkie 04 Jan 10 - 09:46 PM
Riginslinger 04 Jan 10 - 09:48 PM
pdq 04 Jan 10 - 10:00 PM
Rowan 04 Jan 10 - 10:11 PM
katlaughing 04 Jan 10 - 10:22 PM
Ebbie 04 Jan 10 - 10:56 PM
Uncle_DaveO 05 Jan 10 - 09:14 AM
katlaughing 05 Jan 10 - 10:36 AM
pdq 05 Jan 10 - 11:51 AM
Little Hawk 05 Jan 10 - 12:20 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 05 Jan 10 - 01:03 PM
Amos 05 Jan 10 - 02:45 PM
bobad 05 Jan 10 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,heric 05 Jan 10 - 03:00 PM
olddude 05 Jan 10 - 03:15 PM
Bonzo3legs 05 Jan 10 - 03:58 PM
pdq 05 Jan 10 - 04:23 PM
mg 05 Jan 10 - 04:28 PM
GUEST,heric 05 Jan 10 - 05:52 PM
Ebbie 05 Jan 10 - 06:46 PM
Rowan 05 Jan 10 - 07:56 PM
Rowan 05 Jan 10 - 08:28 PM
open mike 05 Jan 10 - 11:10 PM
Ebbie 05 Jan 10 - 11:21 PM
katlaughing 05 Jan 10 - 11:29 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 06 Jan 10 - 06:05 AM
pdq 06 Jan 10 - 10:40 AM
Ebbie 06 Jan 10 - 11:11 AM
s&r 07 Jan 10 - 09:36 AM

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Subject: BS: History of horses in US
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:48 PM

Can someone give a short synopsis about horse history in N. America and S. America? Especially pertaining to Native Americans. Any importants from Asia? Cuba? Where did they come from? What came down from Siberia and was it extincted? Extanct? mg


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:56 PM

Horses evolved here (Eohippus, et al.) and died out. Spaniards brought them back, the Indians took to them like ducks to water (the Commanche are considered among the finest light cavalry ever known).


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:58 PM

The wild horses that the Obama administration is rounding-up here in Nevada are not native. They came with the Spanish hundreds of years ago, probably first in Mexico, then north.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 05:41 PM

"...that the Obama sadministration is rounding up..." - For the record, 'wild' horses have been rounded up annually for decades.my own family has bought some from time to time.

An aside: The first year that two brothers of mine each bought a horse from the roundup revealed the difference between a 'warm blooded' horse and one accustomed, probably for generations, to look out for herself. "Lady" was a bay mare with obvious quarter horse antecedents, and none too far back, the other "Mitzi", was mustang through and through.

Both brothers bred their mare and in due time they dropped foals. The difference in their child-rearing methods was astonishing.

Lady galloped anxiously behind her wandering offspring. Mitzi was all business; her colt hugged her side wherever they went.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 06:45 PM

This is not "business as usual" and it is not about something that happened in the past.

The Interior Secretary Ken Salazar has ordered the roundup of 10,000 mustangs out of a total population of 36,000. That seems to me to represent about 27% of the total.

It is the largest such roundup in history. Unpresidented.

I believe the operation starts today.

Country singer Lacy J. Dalton has been the spokesperson for our wild horses for years. She says "let 'em run".

Willie Nelson has run some ads against the roundup.

In fact, I don't know of anyone who supports Ken Salazar's plan. This, I think, is called tyranny.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: GUEST,Falco
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 06:57 PM

A gambler in the U.K. who threatened to kill a racehorse in a bid to stop it taking part in a race after he forgot to place his bet has been given a suspended jail term.

Andrew Rodgerson, 26, warned a stud manager not to run 2008 St Leger winner Conduit in a race at Ascot last year after he forgot to place the accumulator bet.He said if the horse ran, he would kill it. The judge said it amounted to a threat to endanger life.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 07:05 PM

Here is what Lacy J. Dalton has to say...

                                                          "Let 'em Run"


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 08:22 PM

Beautifully done 'documentary' by a film maker who obviously loves wild horses:


Cloud: Wild Stallion of the Rockies


The documentary goes into wild horse society and follows the birth and growth of a young stallion, shows the trials of nature, there is a short scene showing a small group of horses dead on a bluff, with what was news to me, the information that many are struck by lightning, but ultimately their numbers are trimmed to prevent their overgrazing on their territory.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: open mike
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 08:40 PM

he National Cowboy Gathering this year will focus on cowboys in Florida. http://www.westernfolklife.org/site1/index.php

there is a beautiful song by Ian Tyson,"La Primera" which
has a book named after it (her...it means the first one in spanish..)
http://www.iantyson.com/pages/home.asp

this page states that horses were first brought to Florida in
1493 by christopher columbus and crew. many died en route.

here is more about the book

http://www.tundrabooks.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780887768637

Here is an organization , which i volunteer with,
in northern Calif. which helps allow wild horses to live..www.wildhorsesanctuary.org/

(and adopts out the babies born to the herd-to keep the
herd from out-growing their avaialbe space)


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 09:29 PM

36,000 horses? Let 'em run? sheesh.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Arkie
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 09:46 PM

Lacy J. Dalton's song was copyrighted in 1998. Was there another round up then?


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 09:48 PM

My uncle was a rancher in Eastern Oregon and he hated wild horses. They ran along in front of his cows and destroyed the range so his cattle would either die, or he'd have to sell a bunch of them in a depressed market in oreder to keep the rest of them going. The horses could out-distance the cows by several miles a day. Of course, black Angus cows aren't native to North America either.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 10:00 PM

Harvesting wild horses in Nevada has been going on for decades.

Check out a copy of The Misfits. That film was released 1961.

The number horses being rounded up now is planned to be 10,000. That is over 27% of the total population.

The worst part, to some of us, is that the Obama administration is not even slightly interested in what the public thinks. We just don't seem to count.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Rowan
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 10:11 PM

Mustangs, like brumbies, are feral animals and, as such, need to be managed to protect both them (as a population) and the rest of the ecosystem. Emotional responses, often projections of a desire for more "personal freedom", are usually of little help in effective wildlife management. 36,000 extra people, each willing to take a horse for domestication away from the wild landscape would be much more helpful. And, possibly, satisfy the emotional needs for some.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 10:22 PM

pdq, I wish you would cite your sources.

Here is one article I found which says Salazar is also asking for more land to be set aside for the wild horses. The designated land they had has been dwindling since 1971. From HERE:

San Rafael animal rights group protests wild horse roundup
Rob Rogers
Posted: 12/30/2009 05:36:02 PM PST

Members of a Marin animal rights group led more than 50 people Wednesday in a San Francisco protest against the ongoing roundup of wild horses from federal lands.

The San Rafael-based In Defense of Animals asked Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who heads the Senate's Interior Department Appropriations Committee, to stop the removal of 2,500 mustangs by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management - a process members say is cruel and illegal.

"The horses are herded with helicopters, driven across snow and rock, where they suffer injuries," said veterinarian Elliot Katz, president of In Defense of Animals. "The horses break legs, babies get separated from the others and the injured horses come down with pneumonia."

But a spokeswoman for the roundup, which began Monday, said the animal rights group had wildly distorted information about the program, which the bureau considers necessary for the long-term survival of the nation's wild horses.

"Yes, (the horses) run from the helicopter, but they are not deeply traumatized. They recover and calm down quickly," said JoLynn Worley, a bureau spokeswoman.

The BLM oversees a herd of about 37,000 mustangs on 31.9 million acres of Western lands - a number that has grown from 17,300 in 1971, when Congress passed the Wild Horse Act. Officials say that number is about 10,000 more than can be sustained on the open range, which has been devastated by drought and wildfires in recent years.

Under the Wild Horse Act, the bureau regularly rounds up
Advertisementhundreds or even thousands of the mustangs, using helicopters to drive the herds toward corrals. The bureau puts those horses up for adoption. The horses that do not find homes, or are older than 15 years, are retained by the bureau on ranches throughout the Midwest.

"The adoption market has slowed considerably over the past few years," Worley said. "Right now, the bureau has about 30,000 animals we're not able to find adopted homes for in long-term holding facilities."

Animal rights groups allege the bureau is selling its adoptable horses to businesses that slaughter them - an accusation the agency vehemently denies.

In addition, groups such as In Defense of Animals say the bureau only rounds up horses in order to provide pasture on federal lands for commercial ranchers.

"It's a land grab, similar to what we did to Native Americans," Katz said. "The herd isn't being cut back for the health of the horses. It's to give more and more leases to the cattle industry."

Bureau spokesmen say that cattle ranchers have voluntarily reduced their presence on public lands. In addition, U.S. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar has asked Congress to designate new wild horse preserves in the Midwest and East. Until that happens, the bureau must continue to balance the needs of all users of public lands, Worley said.

"Part of the Wild Horse Act requires the Bureau of Land Management to manage the herd in a healthy, thriving condition," Worley said. "Given the amount of forage on public range lands, we have to try to find a balance for grazing use, wild horses and wildlife."

A spokesman for Feinstein said she was weighing the issue.

"Sen. Feinstein is working hard to find a solution to this problem, but there is no easy answer," said communications director Gil Duran. "She has strongly opposed euthanasia as a method for controlling the horse population, and she is committed to creating a long-term strategy for protecting the wild horses."

Katz estimates that about 20 Marin residents took part in Wednesday's demonstration at Feinstein's office in San Francisco. It coincided with similar events in Chicago, Colorado, Idaho and London. The event, coordinated by the American Wild Horse Preservation Campaign, included members of several animal rights organizations, including the Colorado-based Cloud Foundation.


Here's some info from HERE:

Amid mounting protest and the legal wranglings of the highly controversial Calico Complex roundup, Bureau of Land Management officials have chosen to announce yet another roundup of wild horses to take place in February of this year. A Preliminary Environmental Assessment of the Eagle Herd Management Area capture plan along the Nevada/Utah border targets 545 wild horses for capture and removal. Fifty will be removed from private lands. An additional 92 horses will be removed from two adjacent Utah Herd Management Areas (HMA's) in the process.

The reason stated as need for the roundup repeats the BLM mantra of "thriving natural ecological balance" though there seems to be no one who can truly define the term.

The remaining population of 100 animals appears to confirm wild horse advocate concerns about genetic viability of America's wild horse herds. Past explanations by BLM personnel point to migrating patterns that bring about the mingling of horses from different HMA's as a factor in maintaining herd viability. The two adjacent Utah HMA's will be left with populations of 15 and 30 wild horses. A genetic pool of 145 animals raises a red flag in the scientific community.

    This topic is of particular relevance to the Wild Horse and Burro Program because the majority of wild equid populations managed by the BLM are kept at population sizes that are small enough for the loss of genetic variation to be a real concern. Because a loss of genetic variability can lead to a reduction in fertility or viability of individuals in a population, it is critical that genetic considerations be included in management plans for wild equid populations. - "Genetic Variation in Horse Populations" E. Gus Cothran, PhD, Department of Veterinary Science, University of Kentucky

Genetic viability is no longer an issue in HMA's that have had the horses removed altogether. The BLM does not deny the practice of "zeroing out" wild horse herds. As of March of last year BLM website pages admit to 15 such HMA's in Nevada alone. Fifteen additional HMA's have been combined to create only six. These combined areas show a tremendous loss of acreage available for use by wild horses, the Eagle HMA being one. Investigation reveals no BLM denial of accusations that over 19 million acres of land mandated for use by wild horses have disappeared since 1971.

Protesters throughout the country are asking for an immediate moratorium on wild horse roundups and Congressional intervention to clean up the mess in BLM's Wild Horse and Burro Program which was originally intended to protect American herds.

Public comments on the Eagle roundup will be accepted until January 27. Written comments can be mailed to: BLM ELY District office, HC 33 Box 33500, Ely, Nv 89301   attn: Mary D'Aversa, Schell Field Manager. Comments can also be e-mailed to: eaglegather@blm.gov


There's another article by the same author HERE


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 10:56 PM

They may be feral but it is not difficult to tame these horses. I don't suppose that all are as tractable as the horses I've had experience with but all of them that have been in my family responded quickly to gentling. It just stands to reason - if they have not previously had close contact with people they are not primed to fear them.

They make good riding horses; they tend to be sure footed and savvy. My father, who was a horse trainer of many years, always turned his colts out into hill country at a certain point to let them learn to negotiate rough terrain.

But I have little patience with people who want to 'protect' these wild horses by forbidding the removal of a set number of animals from the herds. Just as with deer, I would rather see a healthy herd within sustainable range than seeing a herd of scrawny horses barely surviving due to lack of feed and water.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 09:14 AM

Rowan commented, in part:


Mustangs, like brumbies, are feral animals


What, please, are "brumbies"?

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: LYR ADD: (poem) The Man From Snowy River
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 10:36 AM

Wild horses in Australia. "The Man from Snowy River" works with brumbies:

The Man From Snowy River by Banjo Paterson

There was movement at the station, for the word had passed around
That the colt from old Regret had got away,
And had joined the wild bush horses — he was worth a thousand pound,
So all the cracks had gathered to the fray.
All the tried and noted riders from the stations near and far
Had mustered at the homestead overnight,
For the bushmen love hard riding where the wild bush horses are,
And the stock-horse snuffs the battle with delight.

There was Harrison, who made his pile when Pardon won the cup,
The old man with his hair as white as snow;
But few could ride beside him when his blood was fairly up
He would go wherever horse and man could go.
And Clancy of the Overflow came down to lend a hand,
No better horseman ever held the reins;
For never horse could throw him while the saddle-girths would stand
He learnt to ride while droving on the plains.

And one was there, a stripling on a small and weedy beast;
He was something like a racehorse undersized,
With a touch of Timor pony—three parts thoroughbred at least
And such as are by mountain horsemen prized.
He was hard and tough and wiry—just the sort that won't say die
There was courage in his quick impatient tread;
And he bore the badge of gameness in his bright and fiery eye,
And the proud and lofty carriage of his head.

But still so slight and weedy, one would doubt his power to stay,
And the old man said, "That horse will never do
For a long and tiring gallop—lad, you'd better stop away,
Those hills are far too rough for such as you."
So he waited, sad and wistful—only Clancy stood his friend
"I think we ought to let him come," he said;
"I warrant he'll be with us when he's wanted at the end,
For both his horse and he are mountain bred.

"He hails from Snowy River, up by Kosciusko's side,
Where the hills are twice as steep and twice as rough;
Where a horse's hoofs strike firelight from the flint stones every stride,
The man that holds his own is good enough.
And the Snowy River riders on the mountains make their home,
Where the river runs those giant hills between;
I have seen full many horsemen since I first commenced to roam,
But nowhere yet such horsemen have I seen."

So he went; they found the horses by the big mimosa clump,
They raced away towards the mountain's brow,
And the old man gave his orders, "Boys, go at them from the jump,
No use to try for fancy riding now.
And, Clancy, you must wheel them, try and wheel them to the right.
Ride boldly, lad, and never fear the spills,
For never yet was rider that could keep the mob in sight,
If once they gain the shelter of those hills."

So Clancy rode to wheel them—he was racing on the wing
Where the best and boldest riders take their place,
And he raced his stock-horse past them, and he made the ranges ring
With the stockwhip, as he met them face to face.
Then they halted for a moment, while he swung the dreaded lash,
But they saw their well-loved mountain full in view,
And they charged beneath the stockwhip with a sharp and sudden dash,
And off into the mountain scrub they flew.

Then fast the horsemen followed, where the gorges deep and black
Resounded to the thunder of their tread,
And the stockwhips woke the echoes, and they fiercely answered back
From cliffs and crags that beetled overhead.
And upward, ever upward, the wild horses held their way,
Where mountain ash and kurrajong grew wide;
And the old man muttered fiercely, "We may bid the mob good day,
no man can hold them down the other side."

When they reached the mountain's summit, even Clancy took a pull
It well might make the boldest hold their breath;
The wild hop scrub grew thickly, and the hidden ground was full
Of wombat holes, and any slip was death.
But the man from Snowy River let the pony have his head,
And he swung his stockwhip round and gave a cheer,
And he raced him down the mountain like a torrent down its bed,
While the others stood and watched in very fear.

He sent the flint-stones flying, but the pony kept his feet,
He cleared the fallen timber in his stride,
And the man from Snowy River never shifted in his seat
It was grand to see that mountain horseman ride.
Through the stringy barks and saplings, on the rough and broken ground,
Down the hillside at a racing pace he went;
And he never drew the bridle till he landed safe and sound,
At the bottom of that terrible descent.

He was right among the horses as they climbed the farther hill,
And the watchers on the mountain, standing mute,
Saw him ply the stockwhip fiercely; he was right among them still,
As he raced across the clearing in pursuit.
They lost him for a moment, where two mountain gullies met
In the ranges—but a final glimpse reveals
On a dim and distant hillside the wild horses racing yet,
With the man from Snowy River at their heels.

And he ran them single-handed till their sides were white with foam;
He followed like a bloodhound on their track,
Till they halted cowed and beaten; then he turned their heads for home,
And alone and unassisted brought them back.
But his hardy mountain pony he could scarcely raise a trot,
He was blood from hip to shoulder from the spur;
But his pluck was still undaunted, and his courage fiery hot,
For never yet was mountain horse a cur.

And down by Kosciusko, where the pine-clad ridges raise
Their torn and rugged battlements on high,
Where the air is clear as crystal, and the white stars fairly blaze
At midnight in the cold and frosty sky,
And where around the Overflow the reed-beds sweep and sway
To the breezes, and the rolling plains are wide,
The Man from Snowy River is a household word today,
And the stockmen tell the story of his ride.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:51 AM

Obama Administration Blasted for Secret Holiday Roundup of Thousands of Wild Horses in Nevada


Monday, December 28, 2009, 9:34

Roundup Begins Today Despite Federal Court Advice, Pending Federal Environmental Complaints and Violation of BLM Promise for Public Transparency

Washington, DC (December 28, 2009) . . . Public outrage is increasing as the Obama Administration  proceeds with a controversial Christmas week roundup of thousands of wild Nevada mustangs despite a federal court's suggestion last week that the action be postponed.

Today, the Interior Department's Bureau of Land Management (BLM) will commence the cruel wild horse capture in secret, on private lands where the public will be barred from observing the treatment of the horses.  In response, In Defense of Animals (IDA) today released video of BLM chief Don Glenn, stating at a public meeting in Reno on December 7 that "All of our gathers are open to the public; the public is invited to watch all the time."

Just a day before Glenn made that statement, the BLM completed the roundup of 217 horses on the California/Nevada border, an action that was taken illegally with no public notification. Two weeks later, the BLM denied a request by an IDA observer to witness a helicopter stampede of horses living in the Palomino Buttes area in Eastern Oregon , stating "no observers would be allowed or welcome at this roundup."

"Directly counter to the spirit of the Obama Administration's promise of transparency, the President is allowing the BLM to secretly begin the roundup of thousands of wild horses living peacefully on more than one-half million acres of public lands in Nevada," said Elliot M. Katz, DVM, IDA president. "This roundup will commence out of view of the public during a holiday week when government officials are off on holiday and have been unable to address complaints and a formal Motion to Stay (stop) the roundup. This action reflects very poorly on the BLM and most of all on the Obama Administration."

In a December 23, 2009 decision, U.S. District Court Judge Paul Friedman said that the BLM's plans to stockpile these horses in Midwestern holding facilities is likely illegal, and consequently suggested that BLM postpone the Calico gather.  That ruling, combined with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) violations cited in IDA's complaints to the White House Council on Environmental Quality and the Interior Department, should warrant President Obama's intervention to stop this roundup immediately, IDA said.

Judge Friedman's decision was made in response to a federal lawsuit filed by IDA, Nevada ecologist Craig Downer and noted children's writer Terri Farley, also a Nevada resident, to halt the roundup, which involves a helicopter stampede and capture of 2,700 horses in the more than 500,000-acre Calico Mountains Complex in northwestern Nevada.  The horses will be traumatized, terrorized, and many will be injured and/or killed. Foals and their mothers will be separated and horse family bands will be shattered forever

In a 2008 report, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that the BLM was not transparent with the public about how horses are treated under its Wild Horse and Burro management program.

"For America 's wild horses, President Obama's promise of change rings hollow," said IDA president Elliot M. Katz, DVM.  "His administration has continued the same secretive and destructive Bush Administration war on the wild horses of the American West."

IDA said that wild horses are removed for the benefit of private livestock owners and other extractive users of public lands.  Despite a Congressional mandate to protect wild horses in the Calico Complex, the BLM has in recent times increased the number of  cattle to run on the same public lands where they are removing wild horses. The BLM ignores its federal mandate to remove livestock from federal wild horse management areas "if necessary to provide habitat for wild horses or burros, to implement herd management actions, or to protect wild horses or burros from disease, harassment or injury" (43 CFR § 4710.5).

If the Administration continues its current course, it will capture and remove nearly 12,000 wild horses a year from their native Western homes for the next three years, after which time the number of horses in Midwestern holding facilities will number more than 50,000 and far exceed those left on the range.

Contact: Suzanne Roy, Program Director, In Defense of Animals

919-697-9389; sroy@idausa.org

Eric Kleiman, Research Director, In Defense of Animals

717-939-3231


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 12:20 PM

"Hell, WHITE people aren't native to North America either!

Come to think of it...neither are Black people.

Or Orientals.

Or East Asians.

Let's cull ALL of 'em, I say! Give the land back to the native species while there is still time." - Black Elk


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 01:03 PM

The saying "chomping at the bit" is ridiculous - the horse is trying to get the damn thing out of its mouth, and moves one way or the other to ease the pain on its gums.

Poem 146 of 230: HORSES FOR COURSES?

To some, in income-anticipation,
    Horse-baulking at gates is a small debase;
To me, it seems a memory/fear case
    Over the coming whip-castigation.
To some, the winning jockey's elation
    Is the highlight of an ended horserace;
To me, the horse's bulged veins and scared face
    Undermine the winners' celebration.
I can't condone a punter's desire
    To gamble rather than earn a living,
    But can acknowledge a jockey's courage;
I can't see and think as a raced sire,
    Nor feel the scrapes hedges are giving,
    But find horses choiceless in their bondage.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:45 PM

David:

Your litter needs to stay in your litter box.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: bobad
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:54 PM

The word is "champing" not ""chomping"

champ1
vb
1. to munch (food) noisily like a horse
2. (when intr, often foll by on, at, etc.) to bite (something) nervously or impatiently; gnaw
champ (or chafe) at the bit Informal to be impatient to start work, a journey, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:00 PM

I read somewhere, very recently and probably in National Geographic, that a large percentage of these animals are feral from the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. There is one particular herd famous for being from the days of conquistadors, but I think the article questioned its genetic purity as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:15 PM

I wanted a pony for Christmas but all I got was a baseball glove


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:58 PM

The first cowboys came from Argentina of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:23 PM

Wasn't the first one named Gaucho Marx?


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: mg
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:28 PM

So are they doing DNA studies etc. on these horses? mg


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 05:52 PM

Yeah. There's a little bit here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustang_(horse)

including an assertion that "Some ranchers also attempted to "improve" wild herds by shooting the dominant stallions and replacing them with pedigreed animals."


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 06:46 PM

Many a 'tame' horse has escaped a ranch and joined a wild herd. Ranchers tend not to be fond of their losses but it does improve the herd. Inbred horses can be ugly in more ways than one.

I knew a man who lived by himself with more than 20 dogs and lots of ponies on his acreage. He never culled his herd or added fresh blood and his ponies were - well, let's just say they were not purdy.

'Champing at the bit' is NOT done because of pain to the gums, Walkabout. Horses have teeth only to a certain point of the jaw, as you probably know, and the bit fits over the tongue behind the teeth. The 'Spanish bit' can cause pain but even that pain is NOT to the gums. The 'paddle' pushes against the palate; most thoughtful people never use them.

Incidentally, in cold weather, thoughtful riders warm a bit in the hand before inserting it.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Rowan
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 07:56 PM

Thanks for posting "The man from Snowy River", kat. You're right, brumbies are the Oz equivalent of the US' mustangs. In our case they are really just the feral descendants of escaped domestic horses. Some have been regarded as the original source of "Walers" and particular specimens have been redomesticated to re-establish that breed.

As it turns out, I've just returned from the Nariel Creek Folk Festival, which is not far from where the Murray turns from being a mountain stream into a floodplain one; the Snowy Mountains are only a hop,skip and jump further east and Jack Riley's grave is just a few km west of the festival; the locals ardue quite strongly that Jack Riley was the Man from Snowy River described in Paterson's poem.

It is with some disappointment that the last time I can recall seeing a Timor pony is more than 50 years ago. All the horsey people I know (and who are generally well-informed) can't recall seeing one any more recently either; I think it a shame that a breed that is so celebrated in what must be Australia's best-known poem might have disappeared.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Rowan
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 08:28 PM

More on the Waler here.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: open mike
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:10 PM

The Nez Perce tribe has been breeding the Apaloosa horse
since the 1700's. According to this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appaloosa

"It is unclear how spotted horses arrived in the Americas, although the Spanish Conquistadors may have brought some vividly marked horses with them when they first arrived in the early 1500s. One horse with snowflake patterning was listed with the 16 horses brought to Mexico by Cortez. Additional spotted horses were noted by Spanish writers in 1604. Additional numbers arrived when spotted horses went out of style in late-18th century Europe, resulting in large numbers shipped to the west coast of America and traded to Spanish settlers and the Indian people of the Pacific Northwest, a voyage survived only by the hardiest animals.

Horses reached the Pacific Northwest by 1700. The Nez Perce people, who lived in what today is eastern Washington and Oregon, obtained horses from the Shoshone people circa 1730, and from there took advantage of the fact that they lived in excellent horse-breeding country, relatively safe from the raids of other tribes, and developed strict breeding selection practices for their animals. They were one of the few tribes to actively use the practice of gelding inferior male horses, and actively traded away poorer stock to remove unsuitable animals from the gene pool, and became known as notable horse breeders by the early 1800s."

This tribe lived and lives in and around the Palouse Hills and the Palouse river. ...Gradually, the name evolved into "Appaloosa."


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:21 PM

Thunder-rolling-in-the-mountains
led his people across the Great Divide
There's blood on the snow in the hills of Idaho
But the heart of the Appaloosa never died.

Know that song? It's a good one. (Now it's a music thread)


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:29 PM

Thank you, Rowan, for the link about Walers! The story about Bill the Bastard and the poem about not leaving one's horse behind are just incredible. My dad would have cried to hear that poem, as did I.

Also, my apologies for spelling "Paterson" wrong. I have corrected it.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:05 AM

Re. my above poem: From: bobad - PM
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:54 PM

"The word is "champing" not ""chomping"

champ1
vb
1. to munch (food) noisily like a horse
2. (when intr, often foll by on, at, etc.) to bite (something) nervously or impatiently; gnaw
champ (or chafe) at the bit Informal to be impatient to start work, a journey, etc."...okay, Bobad, but, as I say, the horse is NOT keen "to start work" it is trying to get the damn bit out of its mouth. And how I do love to see horses running free in a field.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: pdq
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 10:40 AM

The song "The Heart of the Appaloosa" is by Fred Small.

Rounder catalog #4014. The CD version as realeased in 1991.

Ebbie will like the whole record since it is very political.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 11:11 AM

pdq, a friend of mine sings the Appaloosa song; it isn't one I do.

As for my liking or not liking political things, I don't consider politics a dirty word. I agree that its practice often sullies a character but I think that many people go into it with high aspirations.


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Subject: RE: BS: History of horses in US
From: s&r
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 09:36 AM

My grandchildren ride: they tack up their horses and groom them. The horses come to them to be tacked up with no apparent fear or reluctance. the horses seem to enjoy the relationship as much as the boys.

I would ask the horses why they champ at the bit: unfortunately I don't speak horse.

Do you speak horse WAV?

Stu


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