BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???

Subject: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:35 AM

Well, well, well...

I reckon this is more a commentary of the brain-dead tea baggers that now make up the base of the Republican Party but...

...seems that everytime I turn on the TV there's some Repub pundit, like Dick Cheney, saying that the US wasn't hit by terrorists during the Bush administration???

Like what gives here???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:47 AM

Maybe some of that bird shot ricochetted off of Whittingon's face and up Cheney's nose or in his ear and struck his brain?

Snork...

Bush was reading to children in some elementary school when the 1st and 2nd planes struck.   Maybe he is not considered to be administrating when he visits schools?

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:50 AM

A school is probably the last place they expected to find him.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:14 AM

I sure as hell didn't imagine it....wish I had.....still can't believe it happened, or what has happened to our world since that dreadful day...

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 10:37 AM

The efforts to brainwash us into believing it happened under some other president has begun. These people are true fascists.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:13 AM

That's right, Bobert. We imagined it. Also the USS Cole, those buildings in Africa, the attack on the quarters in Saudi Arabia, the little tiff in Iraq, the first attack on the World Trade Center, the bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beirut, World War 2, Vietnam....

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:24 AM

When I started teaching in 1977, my American freshman class knew nothing - I mean nothing, do you understand me? - of the Vietnam War except that communism had been involved somehow and our side lost.

That was only four years after the U.S. withdrawal, less than two after the fall of Saigon.

A little math tells me that 9/11 was, year for year, much longer ago than that.

So draw your own conclusions.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:24 AM

What Carol said... but ;no they are not the F word.


Hypnosis works best when reinforced with repetition. Repetition followed by some form of silence implies a tacit approval of the phrase. Often the intentional but patently false phrase is said quickly enough so that the following sentence gives no time for reaction to allow any contention.

The Republic party relies on psycho neuro linguistic techniques far more than the Democratic party. They craft rules of what is appropriate and what is not. They scold loudly at any disruption or interuption of Darth Cheney or the cross dressing Guilliani if anyone should disagree with thier quick interjections that all attacks have happened under Clinton and Obama or that they pal around with terrorists.

To challenge every single lie every time they repeat the big lie becomes tedious, so the lazy interviewer lets it pass. George Stephanopolis lets it pass as do most interviewers. Then there are those who are paid to not only let the ie pass but to praise spokes liars for the right.

Tedious or not, setting oneself up to be the interrerupter by pointing out the lie does WITH REPETITION nullify the intended post hypnotic suggestion.

Until Democrats understand and use psycho neuro linguistics, instead of just reacting to those who do or those who cry out "you lie" falsly, the left wing will remain in the position of answering to an argument defined by their opposition , instead of shaping and stating their own truth first.

To succeed you must; Defuse the big lie, accuse the opposition of any sin of your own first, Define your purpose with repitition AND Deamonize the hysterical opposition politely-obliquely- or directly.

Its so basic but so important that any success of an organized populace movement depends on this one basic fact.

You don't need a minister of propoganda to fhetoricly use truth as a weapon to your nearly insane critics. But you do not play into their hands either. Use the hypnosis tools for yourself instead of only defending against them a day late and a 'holler' short.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:25 AM

Maybe what they mean is that they did it themselves...

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:27 AM

I meant 'populist'

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:40 AM

Oh, and of course...they do not define themselves as "terrorists". Therefore, they would feel they were speaking quite truthfully in saying that the "terrorists" did not attack the USA during the Bush administration.

Remember...it's only OTHER people who are "terrorists". No matter what it is that they do. What they do is not nearly as important as who they are. Bad people, that is...evil people. People with brown skin, facial hair, and unpronouncable names. ;-) Not good people..."like us". Good people (like us) don't do bad things. We may kill thousands or even millions of the bad people and we may ruin entire societies, but we do it only for the most laudable of reasons...and only in self-defence, naturally. Because we are GOOD people. Our motives are always good, and our methods may seem severe at times, but they are the only means of securing freedom, liberty, and all those other good things like that.

If you're not with us, you're against us.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:46 AM

Notice cerefull that no one here has dared bring up any of the forbidden questions. To do so we have to hide it in humor or parody.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO4qGWtP2a0

Still one of my all time favorite forbidden questions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxx0GXJEeko

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:48 AM

They're fascists by every definition of the word.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:49 AM

Maybe just another "Groundhog Day"( the movie) scene we and the Bush folks are liv'in..

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:55 AM

over a million views/internet hits http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc&feature=related


OK suppose they are fascists. Notice how well they use linguistics, hypnosis and propoganda. Notice how they accuse the left of being fascists -RUle #2 accuse the opposition of your own sins first.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:02 PM

Rapaire, it looks as if you think that the Cole and Marine attacks were terrorism, nonsense, the military are a legitimate target. Don't confuse attacks on civilians with attacks on the voluntary armed forces.

Not that we didn't imagine them too...

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:10 PM

That is correct. The military are a legitimate target in any conflict, including a guerrilla action by non-governmental forces, so an attack on American military forces cannot be characterized as terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:23 PM

Giuliani later 'explained' that he meant there'd been no terrorist attacks during the Bush Administration since 9/11 but he also forgot Reid, the Shoe Bomber.

If the attempted attack by Abdullaetc, the Groin Bomber, was what prompted Giuliani to bring up the subject, you'd think its similarity to the Shoe Bomber would have come to mind.

As for the Infowars link that Donuel posted and the apparent discrepancy of reported events, somebody, somewhere has to pursue it. Because it will come out someday, whatever the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:38 PM

Did Cheney say that? I thought it was Giuliani, myself. Actually, Politifact.com identifies five post-9/11 terrorist attacks within the US, one of which was Reid.

For any of the varied parties in all this to call anyone else a fascist (or a Fascist) demonstrates the usual total lack of understanding of what that word means.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:40 PM

Also the beltway snipers and as mentioned in the article below, the anthrax terrorism.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/01/08/2010-01-08_hey_rudy_remember_sept_11.html

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:17 PM

The beltway snipers were not connected in any way to ANY administration. Their 'terrorism' was a personal thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

"As for the Infowars link that Donuel posted and the apparent discrepancy of reported events, somebody, somewhere has to pursue it.

It was pursued, explained and refuted many times. Some folks just like the rumor better.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:35 PM

They were domestic terrorism on US soil. Isn't that way Rudy was talking about? The think he said did NOT take place on Bush's watch. The lesson to be gained was that terrorism could be successfully dealt with on a "law and order" basis.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:41 PM

Cheney was a lying sonuvabitch then. What makes you think he's changed?

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:47 PM

NB: That wasn't addressed to anyone in particular.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw&feature=related

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:57 PM

>>Cheney was a lying sonuvabitch then. What makes you think he's changed?

He is talking a lot more.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 05:00 PM

Excellent, Donuel. Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 05:51 PM

IF you merely feel that there are forbidden questions that can not be asked anymore, then the fear and intimidation of the prior administration is still pumping poison to every cell of your body and mind.

Every witness of the Pentagon attack on 9-11 that I have spoken with, has a different description. Some say the landing gear was down others say it was up, Some say they saw a small commuter plane others saw a cruise missile. Some saw a jetliner.

Whatever the FBI saw on 46 surveillence cameras, they only release one in which nothing was visible except for a orange explosion. Why is that? Did they do that to encourage rumor? Why would they do that? Or is there another reason?


Bill
Questions are not an indictment or proof of another explanation, they are questions. I see unanswered questions, at least to my satisfaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:13 PM

If one wishes to do an operation like this and subsequently cover it up, then one of the most effective tactics possible is to provide a large number of apparently conflicting visual circumstances so that many different witnesses will see many different things (all of them actually seeing something, but not necessarily the same thing). You then allow all of these different things to be chased around by people until the situation is so confusing that no one knows what to believe, and every theory can be scoffed at.

Muddy the trail, in other words. Drop lots of red herrings around in all directions. And provide some credible-sounding false witnesses and false "evidence" as well.

Make sure that some of the theories which your false evidence will give birth to are so weird that it serves to discredit ALL theories by association, other than the offical one.

The reason the FBI only releases one almost completely useless film from one camera when they should have had film on a great many others is simple. They've been instructed to conceal evidence that would clear up a great deal of the muddiness, and would also consign several popular theories to the grave.

In my opinion. (I said that for Bill's benefit.) ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:14 PM

"...they only release one in which nothing was visible except for a orange explosion."

No, there was one set of images which showed the very front of the jetliner. I have posted it before. (ALL those cameras took pictures at 1 second intervals...there was NO regular video) Dozens saw a jetliner...including a couple of pilots who knew exactly what it was.

and...that video titled "Total Proof That Bombs Were Planted In The Buildings!" is simply, NOT proof of any such thing. It has been explained many times. There are many sudden loud noises that are not 'bombs'. I understand why concern about bombs might be genuine, and why it would be investigated, but the evidence showed other causes.


Questions are fine....ignoring answers which don't support one's pet theory is not. If there are disagreements, by all means, ask the questions which will help resolve confusions: but rhetorical questions designed to merely cast doubt bother me a lot....(as some may have gathered.☺)

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:31 PM

I saw the whole craft in that Pentagon video, and it is not a jetliner. It does not in any way resemble a jetliner.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:39 PM

Bill, I posted at that time and the wheel assembly that was shown to the world was not the same wheel that should have been on that airliner.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 07:18 PM

*sigh* The wheel assembly WAS the correct one... there were photos comparing what was found and what the airliner would have used... I looked at 7-8 pages explaining it all.

"I saw the whole craft in that Pentagon video..." ?? WHAT video do you reference?

As I said, there was no standard video: there were only frames from a couple of security cameras...one second apart. I, personally, downloaded the one showing the nose of an aircraft and played it, frame-by-frame, and saved the one frame with an image of the nose, and it certainly was consistent with the size of a 757 nose, though it would not be identifiable as a specific aircraft if that frame were the only evidence. That's why the eyewitness reports from qualified pilots who SAW it fly over the highway were relevant.

*shrug*.. I cannot compel anyone to agree, but believing the various conspiracy theories requires accepting such a complex set of other assumptions that it boggles the mind! Just explaining where the 757 with all those people went if it DIDN'T crash into the Pentagon requires so many other theories that .... well,I'm at a loss for metaphors.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 07:45 PM

Bill, do you feel that you have been truthfully informed by your government as to the events that took place on 9/11?

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:04 PM

Everyone knows that it was a remotely piloted Piper Cub (with Dick Cheney on the joystick) that hit the Pentagon. American flight 77 was translated through hyperspace and then blasted by the Klingons.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:04 PM

?? What a leading question, Bruce. The only way I can answer that is that I see no reason for 'them' (meaning the Bush admin. and the 9/11 commission) to lie about the basic facts. (meaning what hit what and the laws of physics)
Did the Bushies dissemble about their lapses in judgment and careless attention to warnings? Oh, no doubt! Did they PLAN 9/11 and utilize a cast of thousands to create a massive hoax? ...no...

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:06 PM

*tsk*...no, Art.. Cheney couldn't have done it. He was at Guantanamo, getting the cells ready!

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:09 PM

Fair enough, Bill. Thanks.

Art: Sarcasm don't mean shit to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:09 PM

Bill D, I was referring to the apparent discrepancy of reporting the collapse of a building before it fell. I have read that allegation before and I have NOT heard it explained.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:15 PM

999, what gives you the idea that I was talking to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:15 PM

"On September 11th 2001, BBC World reported at 4:57pm Eastern Time that the Salomon Brothers Building (more commonly known as WTC7 or World Trade Building 7) had collapsed. This even made the 5pm EST headlines, what is bizarre is that the building did not actually collapse until 5:20pm."

A federal agency (button, button, who's got the button) says it was because the heat from the two burning buildings caused unacceptable stress to the metal of Building 7 which led to the collapse. That still doesn't explain the time differences.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:16 PM

Art, if you weren't, I apologize.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:25 PM

Yeah, like the bombs and bullets and boobytraps and mines and IEDs and discriminate between military and civilian, between adults and children. The burning of the churches in Mississippi in 1960s were just as much an act of terror as the latest truck bomb in Baghdad. The raids by Mosby in the Shenandoha Valley against farmers were just as much terrorism as the bombings of Dresden and Kyoto, just as much as blowing up a biergartren patronized by GIs and Germans or kneecapping an Italian politician or a Mafioso gunning down a rival. Hell's bells, the Boston Tea Party was intended as a terrorist act!

To cause terror -- reason terrorism exists -- means you kill the innocent, you kill a doctor because she treated the wounds of your enemy, you disembowel a schoolteacher for teaching "wrong ideas,"
you hack the arms off a child because he was vaccinated by the "enemy of the people" or by "an infidel."

You (literally) shoot at me, I consider you a terrorist and I'll return fire if I can, whether you carry a banjo or a bayonet.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:44 PM

Good grief. You mean one can shoot a banjo? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 08:47 PM

You have led a sheltered life, Eb.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:32 PM

lol You are amazing, Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:33 PM

I think, Ebbie, that some might consider a banjo a weapon of terror.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:33 PM

Sorry. I was speaking to Guest/999.

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:59 PM

I don't find banjos terrifying...just a bit annoying. (unless very well played, in which case they're okay)

Subject: RE: BS: Did We Imagine 9/11???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 10:00 PM

Oh...that was my opinion, okay? ;-) Bill?