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BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today

Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Jan 10 - 04:47 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Jan 10 - 04:52 AM
Terry McDonald 15 Jan 10 - 04:54 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Jan 10 - 05:00 AM
MGM·Lion 15 Jan 10 - 05:03 AM
John MacKenzie 15 Jan 10 - 05:13 AM
MGM·Lion 15 Jan 10 - 05:40 AM
GUEST 15 Jan 10 - 05:49 AM
Arnie 15 Jan 10 - 06:10 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jan 10 - 06:31 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 15 Jan 10 - 06:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jan 10 - 06:48 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Jan 10 - 06:48 AM
Ruth Archer 15 Jan 10 - 07:24 AM
John MacKenzie 15 Jan 10 - 07:38 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Jan 10 - 07:53 AM
Ruth Archer 15 Jan 10 - 08:01 AM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 15 Jan 10 - 08:05 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Jan 10 - 08:07 AM
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Ruth Archer 15 Jan 10 - 08:09 AM
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Will Fly 15 Jan 10 - 08:18 AM
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Leadfingers 15 Jan 10 - 08:26 AM
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Lizzie Cornish 1 17 Jan 10 - 03:23 PM
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Subject: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 04:47 AM

Nooooo...not the actual meal! The shops! :0)

You can listen to Judi Spiers telling people all about them on BBC Radio Devon here

I have to say that Sidmouth's 'White Horse' has to be the best fish and chips I've ever tasted..

Bring back wrapping them in newspaper!

And when I was little we used to go to the one in Pinner Green, which had a little restaurant on the side of it. It was always a really special treat to have tea in there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 04:52 AM

Fish and Chips - The History :0)

Don't you just *love* the internet!
The Fish Fryer's Federation

Try saying that after some beer battered fish..LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 04:54 AM

I've never know fish and chips to be 'wrapped in newspaper' - when I were a lad in the 40s and 50s, they were always wrapped first in greaseproof paper, with newspaper being the outer wrapping.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 05:00 AM

Well, yes...er...ok....but they were still *wrapped* in newspaper, albeit the out wrapping...

"One portion of Chips and a Pedantic Plaice, to take away, please!"

;0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 05:03 AM

Newspaper much the best insulation to keep the heat in — pity not used any more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 05:13 AM

Well when you consider the filth in some newspapers.
I mean, would you want your chips wrapped in the Daily Mail?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 05:40 AM

Best use for it, I should have said...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 05:49 AM

John MacKenzie,The 'Daily Mail' a newspaper? Come off it!

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Arnie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 06:10 AM

When I was at school in the '60's, I got a part-time job working in our local chippie. I loved fish & chips anyway, so it was a heaven-sent job for me. I was allowed to eat as many chips as I wanted from the outset, which was good psychology as I soon got fed up of eating chips! One of my jobs was making 'fish cakes' - these were pieces of fish in between two potato slices, dipped in batter. These were a cheap alternative to fish as many families couldn't afford the real thing. We also got requests for free'fish bits' which were in fact leftover bits of batter.As pointed out above, we used greaseproof paper around the food, then newspaper as an outer layer. I recall the song of that summer, played ad nauseum in the chippie was 'I got you babe' by Sonny & Cher. Unfortunately the owner gave me the sack at the end of the summer as he said I wasn't quick enough serving the customers - this was a lie but I think he couldn't afford to keep me on but didn't want to say so. Still love fish & chips!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 06:31 AM

So, just what is 150 years old today?

Fishcakes at our local chippies were always just fishcakes - the same sort you get in supermarkets. Must say the bit of fish between sliced potatos sound a much better option! We used to have sliced battered potatos called 'specials' - known to some as scallops.

In the North West we seem to have cornered the market in pies. When travelling elsewhere I am always amazed that I cannot get a meat pie - Do you mean minced meat or steak and kidney? They usualy ask. Neither - You have to have a Hollands meat pie to understand! And how anyone can not enjoy a babbies yed wi' gravy is beyond me...

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 06:35 AM

"So, just what is 150 years old today?"

It's 150 years since the first fish and chip shop was opened....listen to Judi's show...and read the Wiki link above..


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 06:48 AM

Ahhhh - Gotcha. The Wiki article was unclear and I cannot listen to the radio at work so thanks for clearing that up. How do we know it was today? The articles, as far as I can see, just say it was either 1860 or 1863, depending on the definition of a fish and chip shop.

Purely out of academic (and gastronomic!) interest

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 06:48 AM

They used to call the sliced, battered potatoes 'Floaters' here in N. Lincs.

You could get Yorkshire Fishcakes (fish between two slices of potato) at a small minority of chippies years ago, but not for a long time round here. A new chippie's just opened and they sell them. Great wi' salt and vinegar and a dollop o' red sauce. Yippee!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 07:24 AM

When I first came to England, I remember seeing scallops on the menu in a chippie. I was delighted - I love a scallop, me. My delight diminished rapidly when it became apparent that I had not ordered deep-fried shellfish, but a deep-fried slice of potato. I think that was the last time I ever had one.

PS: red sauce is an abomination. Daddies all the way!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 07:38 AM

Ooh boiled babbies yeds, I love them, not had 'em for ages. I shall buy some next shopping trip.
Best pies are Scottish Mutton Pies. nam nam


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 07:53 AM

Yep, Daddies is great in its place, but its place is on big fat juicy Lincolnshire sausages! :-)

Only the red stuff will do with F&C for me. Mind you, I used to work with a guy who on Friday used to go with us to the works canteen and have fried battered fish, salad, pasta and gravy, topped off with Heinz Salad Cream. Disgusting. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:01 AM

It's funny, Backwoodsman - I can't eat red sauce any more. I grew up eating it, but after I came to England and had eaten brown sauce for years, one day I got a terrible craving for chips with Heinz ketchup. Well, I nearly gagged, it was so vile. It's really funny how your tastes change over time.


Salad cream is a bigger abomination than red sauce. I always keep a bottle of red sauce in the house in case posh company comes (I find that middle class people generally don't eat brown sauce - philistines), but I wouldn't have salad cream under my roof.

What is a babbies head? Is it like a faggot?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:05 AM

The best chips I ever had were at a chippie in Snaeth, somewhere in Yorkshire, on the way to a ceilidh, in a van driven by Sam Pirt, with Bill Sables and friends. Great memory!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:07 AM

It's an individual steak and kidney pie with suet crust, Ruth. Picture one upside-down!

I like salad cream on chips (proper chips, big fat ones double-fried in beef dripping).

Oh well, good job we don't all like the same things! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:08 AM

Pie? PIE?? I meant Steak and kidney PUDDING of course! D'oh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:08 AM

Boiled babbies yeds


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:09 AM

"Oh well, good job we don't all like the same things! :-)"

Indeed!


Babbies heads sound amazing! Where do you get them? In the chippies in the Midlands it's all Pukka Pies...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:16 AM

Or as we know them, 'Yuck-a Pies'.

Babbies 'Eads are truly wonderful, with chips and thick gravy (mash will do if there are no chips). Never see them in Lincs., but I had a fair few in me seagoing days. My mum used to make them too, back in the days before anyone had dreamed up the concept of 'Fast Food' (apart from the aforementioned fish & chips) and everyone cooked from scratch at home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:18 AM

Nobody ever ask for "scraps" - bits of batter scrapings to go wi't rest?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:25 AM

I've made steak and kidney pudding in the past, Backwoodsman - I love it. They also used to do it in the pub in my old village, and very nice it was, too (they did a really gorgeous lamb suet pudding as well). But I've never seen it in a chippie! Do they make it themselves, or is it bought in, do you think? And I wonder if it's properly steamed these days or popped in the microwave...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:26 AM

Salad Cream ? NO Way ! PROPER Mayonaise is a different matter though - Chips with Mayonaise is a very Continental delight !


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:37 AM

Surprise Peas, incontinental delight?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:49 AM

Holland pies and puds are now online, Ruth. Not quite the same as getting them from a chippy but should give you an idea.

Mutton pies are indeed good, John, but only when deep fried - Heart attack on a plate:-)

The scraps, near us, were called 'scratchins' - I remeber asking for 'an 'aypurth of scratchins when I were a lad.

I am a brown sauce person as well but did get into the habbit of having mayo on chips when I was in Belgium - Different kettle of fries altogether though.

I daren't say what we used to call black puddings!

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:51 AM

Chip butties!

Trouble is, if you eat to many of them, you end up with a buttie the same size. :0)

Sorry, but when did Tomato Sauce turn into 'Red' sauce? (puzzled dollopy smiley)....and....where did those tomato shaped squeezy thingys go? Cripes, now I'm 17 and back in the Wimpy Bar in Northwood Hills with my chums..squeezing that tomato till it finally released a few dollopygollops, although I think they watered it down with vinegar a bit...

All the sauce used to be dried and encrusted around the stem of the container too, but it never put us off...

HOW did we all survive without Health & Safety and NVQs in Food Preparation, eh?

Perfectly... :0)

So, John, are you eating a Deep Fried Mars Bar oop there in Scotland?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:03 AM

It probably needs a certain amount of tomatoes to be called tomato sauce...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:04 AM

come to that, what is the difference between tomato sauce and tomato ketchup?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:07 AM

No Lizzie, I'm fussy about what, or whom I eat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:08 AM

I'm glad you don't 'eat' me anymore, John... :0) x


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:35 AM

Does it not need a certain amount or reds or browns to be called red or brown sauce then?

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:57 AM

Red sauce is Tomato Ketchup. It's called red sauce by us lot out in The Backwoods in order to distinguish it from brown sauce, which is a different colour and a completely different kettle of sauce. :-)

Ruth, I've not seen Babbies 'Eads in chippies either - just on the ships and at home. I'd guess that anything they sell in chippies must be mass-produced and micro-waveable?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 10:14 AM

Enjoyed these chips...

Poem 187 of 230, A SOUTH SHIELDS WALKABOUT - AUTUMN 2001

Out of the museum-and-gallery
(Wiser on Cookson and the local way),
Down Ocean Road with, to the right of me,
Its eateries and, left, neat places to stay;
Before, on either side, Marine Parks -
The southern-one a most beautiful place,
Teeming with moorhens, swans, grebes and mallards
In a small lake at a scenic-hill's base.

Then (holding chips from the parade's cafe
And, thus, a flock of gulls squawking above)
Onto the South Pier I made my way:
Seeing seaweed over rocks - like a glove -
And high-and-dry sands held from transgression
By growth of grass and the weaving of wood,
Plus, in the dim light of a sleepy sun,
Fishing boats returning to Tynemouth's hood.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 10:37 AM

Why don't you piss off with your doggerel to your own boring thread, you egotistical tosser?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 10:49 AM

"I am a brown sauce person as well but did get into the habbit of having mayo on chips when I was in Belgium - Different kettle of fries altogether though."


Agreed - my first trip abroad was to Bruges and Brussels one year (not the usual spring break destination of choice for the American university student, but I had friends with eccentric tastes). After several hours drinking Kriek beer in smoky little bars each night, we'd go out to these little green wagons and have frites with vinegar and mayonnaise. It was a revelation.

I don't like English chips with mayonnaise - the chips are the wrong texture, and brown sauce cuts through the greasiness. But with restaurant chips that are more like french fries, vinegar and mayo is just the ticket.

The day after Sidmouth finishes, I like having moules frites at the Bedford, and I always ask for vinegar and mayonnaise. I like eating it and looking out at the sea - it's one of my favourite meals.


Red sauce vs tomato sauce: I think it might be a bit of a north/south thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 10:59 AM

I'd guess that anything they sell in chippies must be mass-produced and micro-waveable?

Untrue! Babbies Yeds are still kept in a double boiler in chippies near us and pies are cooked in the oven and kept warm in glass fronted case above the range. The pies can get a little dry after a while but put a good ladle of gravy or curry (with raisins!) on and they are fine again:-)

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: GUEST,buspassed
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:05 AM

'Tracies Plaice' a chippie on Kirkstall Rd. in Leeds do[did?] a deep fried slice of fish between slices of potato. Never managed to finish one but the remainder was always good for rubbing into your Barbour jacket t'keep rain out! Of course this type of fish cake does differ from the native Hull pattie which does or does not contain fish. Discuss! [Should you have enough time left in your life!]


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:16 AM

... & we haven't even started yet on what to call those lovely big gherkins - almost pickled cuke size - that the best chip·shops keep. As I am a Londoner, they are 'wallies' to me.

There's a gr8 chippie right here in my home village of Haddenham between Cambridge & Ely [not to be confused with the other of same name in Bucks, tho we are fraternally linked by charity walks &c]; called Choys, becoz it doubles - wait4it - as a genuine (& xlnt) Chinese takeaway. So if you feel like a change, you can have pineapple·duck·in·orange·sauce with a go of mushroom·fried·rice instead. Oh, bum — decisions decisions!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:26 AM

Hey - Our nearest place has a traditional English 'range' on which they do great chips; a pizza oven which I have never tried; One of those unrecognisable meat things on a turntable that produces some stuff to be eaten only when pissed; a griddle for burgers, which are surprisingly good and, finaly, some cardboard boxes full of southern fried cardboard...

Talk about decisions!

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:29 AM

hi

What a good thread !!

I can smell the fish and chips .......

Around here we have steak & kindney puddings in all of our chippies.
We don't call em babbies yeds....but I live in Cheshire and it's a bit posh here....lol

Years ago I used to play rugby and when we played " oooooop north" we got babbies yeds....I was very disappointed when I found that they were the same as our steak and kidney puddings.

At my folk club we used to have Lancashire Evenings and we used to put on steak & kidney puddings and pies.......and bucketfuls of mushy peas. Me and my missus used to make the peas....yum yum...blow ye winds southerly....lol

Lizzie I remember those tomato squirty things....now what you are forced to use those tiny plastic packets thingies....hate the buggers.

When I was very small we had two chippies fairly close to us and at that time I used to run errands for my grandma who lived around the corner.
She used to make me get the chips from one shop and the fish from the other.....my gran was very fussy....lol

We used to have fish and chips every Friday as kids.

We are having fish tonight but it is smoked cod with poached eggs as we are starting our annual cut down on fatty grub after the festivities which at our house go on until the 14th January as that is my good lady's birthday.

regards

mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Les from Hull
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:38 AM

David el Gnomo - 'an 'aypurth of scratchins? They charged you for scaps? And they say Yorkshiremen are tight!

Of course you have to travel to the East Riding of Yorkshire to experience a patty. The Patty Triangle extends between Goole, Bridlington and the coast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:48 AM

I `ad that Ruth Archer in my cab the other day. She looked well pleased with `erself and she `ad this little parcel in her `and. It was `er evening meal all wrapped up in a copy of "The Times".( None of your old "Sun" at "Fred`s Fried Food & Fish".)
I said, "Blimey Ruthie. If that`s your dinner it don`t `alf pen and ink. What you got in there? A Bit of rock and chips?"
She said, " S`right Jim. I just love that dogfish, `specially with some good old Sarsons vinegar and HP Sauce."
I said, "Dogfish? You sure `e `asn`t run out of fish and fried `is pet mongrel instead?!!"

Whaddam I like??


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 12:01 PM

HP?! Ooooohh noooooo! Daddies all the way, pet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 12:05 PM

You ain't lived till you've had one o' dem Jamaica Patties, from the bakers, just beside the entrance to Brixton Market.
Now when you say "Blow the wind Southerly", this produces a really hot wind ☺


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Paul Burke
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 12:12 PM

Fish and chips, London, 1970s style- heavy rock salmon, tasted like lorry inner tubes fried in engine oil and encased in rockwool insulation. Mountains of inedible razor- tipped "chips", case hardened for at least 24 hours. Pies that grunted when you bit into them, you didn't dare lift the crust. Gravy apparently a product of dysenteric cows. With free added fag-ash.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 12:35 PM

I am suddenly reminded of the story of actors auditioning for a play being asked to read the line: "She stood at the door of Miss Smith's Fish Shop, welcoming him in."

Those who carefully managed the 1st part were tripped by the last.

Ok...carry on.

(I 'think' I have had good fish & chips over here in the colonies, but never having been to the UK to compare, I am not sure.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 12:46 PM

those tomato squirty things....now what you are forced to use those tiny plastic packets thingies....hate the buggers.===

LoL - esp when that marked bit in the corner just WON'T bloody tear off & you are left cursing with words you didn't even know you knew.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 01:17 PM

John MacKenzie - PM
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 10:37 AM

"Why don't you piss off with your doggerel to your own boring thread, you egotistical tosser?"...why don't you stop deluding yourself?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 01:26 PM

Giok - patties from Brixton market. Oh yes. I lived in Tulse Hill, and used to walk round the market on Electric Avenue on my way to work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: GUEST,biff
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 01:54 PM

anyone ever have fish and chips at St. Andrews?? Went to a place there in 1979 and (actually cheated) had the pizza and chips rolled up in a paper wrapper. It was one of the best meals of my life. Ok, it wasn't the fish, but the place was locally famous. Don't know its name. Near the coast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 01:59 PM

Thomas Jefferson served deep-fried slab cut potatoes at the White House in 1802; there is discussion of them as far back as 1680 in Belgium.
How old is the fish fry?

Trust the English to cop a good thing.

Long ago I was staying in Seven Oaks and commuting to London. Coming back to Seven Oaks at night, I always stopped at a fish and chips place on the way to where I was staying.
The best I have ever had! Yes, with the newsprint wrapping.

Many years ago, midwives working in the ghetto or country were advised to cover the birthing board (or bed) with newspapers; the greasy inks were germicidal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Les from Hull
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 02:13 PM

Fish 'n' chips, Q! Where was Jefferson's fish? Anyway, the chips were most likely cooked by one of his slaves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 05:14 PM

So, tonight, I went and wished my chirpy chippy a Happy 150th Birthday and my young lad and I had fish and chips. As he was cooking them he was telling me that oop north he'd heard there used to be a coal fired fish and chip range, dating back to the 1920's...and that it was still in use today...

Apparently, the ol' fella who originally owned it used to stoke up the fire then put the fish in to cook, black coal on his hands and all... :0)

And sure enough...here's some info about it:

Coal Fired Fryer Range...

And here's the very shop, still going, in Lincolnshire....

Suttons....Fish'n'Chips'n'Coal

Oh...and today is National Fish'n'Chip Day....and he was wondering why that was..Now, he knows. :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Bert
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 06:25 PM

If you want the best plate of fish and chips ever. Come to Colorado Springs and go to Oscar's on Tejon when my son Chad is cooking there.

Where it the best place in your town?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 06:41 PM

We had fish and chips in an Irish bar in St Louis - It was fish goujons and crisps - Honest!

Best pace near us (Salford) is the Lancastrian Supper Bar on Bolton Road, Irlams o'th' Height. Best ones I have had though must be in Whitby. The Magpie is good but the place over the bridge has the edge I think - Nobles?

Funiest experience was getting thrown out of a chip shop in Skipton for dancing in singing 'Harry Ramsdens, Harry Ramsdens. Ramsdens, Ramsdens, Harry, Harry.'

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 07:04 PM

In terms of regional variations, the weird, undoubtedly deadly, but totally addictive orange chips of the Black Country surely reign supreme. They have this very thin batter on them that looks kind of like an industrial accident. It's amazing on every level.


Black Country orange chips

There's a great chippy in Pelsall that does them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 07:08 PM

red sauce
salad cream
brown sauce
scrappies
steak and kidney pie/pudding
lamb suet pudding
scallops (in reference to fish)
boiled babbies yeds
surprise peas
mutton pies
holland pies and puds
dollopygollops
mushy peas
Jamaica Patties

And we wonder why UKers and USAians sometimes don't understand each other?

But at least this sounds good (lol):
"Fish and chips, London, 1970s style- heavy rock salmon, tasted like lorry inner tubes fried in engine oil and encased in rockwool insulation. Mountains of inedible razor- tipped "chips", case hardened for at least 24 hours. Pies that grunted when you bit into them, you didn't dare lift the crust. Gravy apparently a product of dysenteric cows. With free added fag-ash."


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 07:23 PM

The best fish and chips I ever had was in the Harbour Inn in Southwold washed down with a pint of Adnams, especially when wrapped in newspaper. Nowadays, whenever I make it to the sessions in the Glan yr Afon (just outside Holywell) they serve some excellent chips -even edible cold!

As for sauce, well, being an Edinburgensian, there is no substitute for "sauce" (mixed brown and vinegar).


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lox
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:38 PM

Oh God ...

... I'm Hungry ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:35 PM

When Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips first came to the US, they claimed that their recipe was licensed by Malin's of Bow, presumably the Malin's mentioned in the citations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 10:34 PM

I recall from my first visit to USA nearly 40 years ago a chain of fish&chip songs - forget the name but they all had 'English Fish & Chips' on a sign swinging pub-style under a bar representing a rolled umbrella & bowler hat: which struck my wife & me as a very funny [deliberate or innocent?, we wondered] misunderstanding, as the rolled-umbrella class & the f&c-eating class are, of course, not one & the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 12:45 AM

MtheGM: H Salt Esq?

All: What is "brown sauce"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 02:03 AM

Brown sauce, m·thief, is a table sauce - various well-known brands here include OK, HP, Daddie's Favourite - 'malt vinegar base blended with fruits & spices' acc to Wiki: brown in colour as against the customary red of tomato ketchup, to which some prefer it as an adjunct to chippie-type dishes &c.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 04:24 AM

Mousethief: brown sauce is not a million miles from A1 sauce. Similar, but different, if you see what I mean.


Mthe GM, someone mentioned Arthur Treacher's. That might have been the chain you remember. We had one for a while near where I grew up. They wrapped the fish and chips in greaseproof that was printed to look like The Times.

I remember the fish being uniformly triangular, like those portions you get from a supermarket freezer in the UK. To give you a further indication of their authenticity, they sold side dishes like hush puppies, which are a Southern American type of fritter. Why, I don't know - presumably because they were also fried.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 05:08 AM

I've never heard of Malim's of Bow, the original Malin's was in Cleveland Street in Stepney. Not too far away but I'd be surprised if there was a connection I'd never heard of in over 50 years in East London.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 06:17 AM

Thanks Ruth - but it wasn't Arthur Treacher's; I am pretty sure coz recall that, as well as inappropriate posh logo of bowler & rolled umbrella, had equally unsuitably posh name, like Lord Somebody's English Fish & Chips, or some such: they really had got the class vibes most hilariously wrong — half-deliberately, I suspect, if you follow what I mean — ambivalently posh-attractive & tongue-in-cheek at once: sort of self-guyingly trying·too·hard for the upperclass anglophile image.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 07:25 AM

Dave, was it you or the pint of Adnam's that was wrapped in newspaper?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 08:35 AM

It must have been the pint. It'd take a massive newspaper to wrap Dave!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: ossonflags
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 09:41 AM

witches, cut fish, chat haddocks and patties, ah!!!!!!!! nostalgia


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 10:27 AM

I knew there was a reason I preferred broadsheets.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 10:32 AM

I thought it was just broads, Dave :) ☺☻


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: EBarnacle
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 02:46 PM

As long as the newspaper is The Sunday New York Times, it works...even though the print version has shrunk from the days when you needed a hand truck to carry it home,


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 04:36 PM

Why do fish and chip shops only sell the same 4 or 5 fish, why not bream, red mullett, are you there John Dory are you there?, hake etc, and why is it always caked in fatty batter? I once asked for my fish to be cooked without batter - on a Friday no less, and they did!! It brought immediate silence to the tracksuit bottomed queue. Mind you, it was McDermotts the championship winning fish & chip shop of the south east!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 05:42 PM

For a little variety, serve the french fries or chips with this:

Steak tartare

2 pounds sirloin, finely ground
1 egg
2 teaspoons Dijon mustard
1 tablespoon onion, finely chopped
1 tablespoon capers, drained
Dash Tabasco sauce
1 teaspoon Lea & Perrins Worcestershire
2 tablespoons virgin olive oil
2 teaspoons finely chopped parsley
Salt and white pepper to taste.

Mix egg, onion, capers, mustard, Worcestershire, Tabasco.
Add olive oil and mix thoroughly.
Add meat and parsley, season with salt and white pepper.

Serve with a good red wine.

A French recipe but the Worcestershire adds an English touch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 07:12 PM

No way John. Southwold is too far south for the Broads.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Bluegrassman
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 08:30 PM

I am surprised that no one has commented on the demise of Hammonds Chop Sauce, this was our favourite brown sauce and apparently ceased to be produced when a fire burned down the factory some years ago. Rumours are that some other company has taken over the recipe and is about to reproduce it, hope so :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 06:42 AM

"The scraps, near us, were called 'scratchins' - I remeber asking for 'an 'aypurth of scratchins when I were a lad." - we used to call them crinklings in S.Beds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 11:21 AM

I used to buy two penny bag of chips on my way home from cubs in the mid 1950s!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 11:59 AM

2d, Bonzo? Where was this disgracefully overcharging clip-joint?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 12:06 PM

David el Gnomo - 'an 'aypurth of scratchins? They charged you for scaps? And they say Yorkshiremen are tight!

You've got it the wrong way round, Les. In Lancashire the owner charges and the customers are happy to pay - 1 tight git and 100 who will part with their money. In Yorkshire the customers will not part with their money so the owner has to give them away. 100 tight gits and 1 who will part with his scratchins... :-P

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: GUEST,buspassed
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 02:14 PM

Sometime ago the chef in a posh restaurant in Leeds introduced 'scraps' as a side dish at £2-50 a throw, had that been Hull he would have needed a season ticket for A&E!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 02:24 PM

That recipe for Steak Tartare is very similar to the one they used at the Algonquin a few years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 02:57 PM

1 tight git and then we sever;
'aporth o' chips, alas, for ever!
Deep in mushy peas I'll pledge thee,
Too much salt and vinegar sour thee.
Who shall say that haddock's lousy,
While last week's Evening News she leaves him?
Me, nae cheerful pie delights me;
HP sauce around benights me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 03:23 PM

And then....of course.....there are some fish and chip shops which are just the place for falling in love, because they are......

One in a Million --------(Chris Wood's award winning song - Youtube)


Chris Wood - One in a Million
Bateman kept a chip shop
And his daughter Peggy Sue
She cleaned the fish and took the orders
She chopped the tatties too.
And the frier there was Billy Smith
He sweated and he sang
As the orders sizzled in the oil
And bubbled in the pan.

Bateman took the money
And his daughter Peggy Sue
She'd look up from her labours
And she'd smile along the queue
Oh and was it Bateman's prices
Or was it Billy's song
Or was it Peggy's smile
that kept the queue so long.

It was one in a million
One in a million
That chippy was
One in a million

No it wasn't Bateman's prices
Nor it wasn't Billy's song
But it was Peggy Bateman
That kept the queue so long
She was shapely as a mermaid
And her lips were red and wet
Her eyes as bright as herrings
Flashing in the net.

And to carry home a portion
And unwrap its fishy charms
Was to dream of nights of passion
In lovely Peggy's arms
Oh and Billy'd sing Deliah
He'd sing Oh what a night
And every song that Billy sang
Had Peggy in its sights.

She was one in a million
One in a million
That girl was
One in a million

Now Billy he's loved Peggy
With a love that wont shine true
since first old Bateman's took him on
On the day that he's left school
And he tells her how he loves her
In every song he sings
But as the batter bubbles
Oh he never says a thing.

But every week a fiver
Into a drawer he drops
Every week for eight long years now
And its off to the jeweller's shop
Give me that ring there in the window
On the purple velvet stand
With diamonds and with sapphires
The one that costs two grand.

It was one in a million
One in a million
That ring was
One in a million

After closing time that evening
He walks her down beside the quay
Oh and as the sun was sinking
He says Peggy marry me
And he pulls it from his pocket
He says I bought this ring for you
She says Billy this is sudden
Oh I never had a clue.

She said Billy I hardly know you
So stop before you start
never fools around with plastic
In matters of the heart.
You tried to win me with this thing here
You probably won in some arcade
She tore it from his fingers.
And flung it in the waves.

It was one in a million
One in a million
His love for her was
One in a million

Billy turned away then
She took him by the arm
She said Billy love I'm sorry
I never meant no harm
Oh you're kindly and you're comforting
And I love it when you sing
But in all the years I've known you
You never said a thing

But I've got a dream thats solid gold
None of your gilded tin
Five pounds a week on the lottery
One day soon I'll win
Oh and I'll be shot of this old town
And greasy fish and chips
She kissed him once and walked away
His tears were on her lips

Dream on Peggy Bateman
Dream on Peggy Sue
Of sunsets and of sportscars
As you smile along the queue
Dream days to months and months to years
In reveries of love
But never for here dreaming
Did her numbers once come up

So as she was cleaning fish one day
With a slit from tail to jaw
Something slivered through her fingers
And fell onto the floor
She took it over to the sink then
And she washed the shining thing
Bright diamonds and bright sapphires
Set in a golden ring

It was one in a million
One in a million
The chances were
One in a million.

Oh Billy love your rings come back
And underneath this light
I can see its made of purest gold
The stones are shining bright
Oh and Billy stood beside her
With a smile like the sun.
He put it on her finger
He said Peggy Sue you've won.

Sell the ring and taste the freedom
You've dreamt of all these years
He kissed her then and as they kissed
They could taste each others tears
Billy go backto your frying
And sing me love is blue
Your kindly and your comforting
I'd rather stay with you

It was one in a million
One in a million
When the chips were down
It was one in a million.<<<<<<


I win the prize for remembering that song! Teeheee!! :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 03:33 PM

Actually, the lyrics are not by Chris Wood. They're by Hugh Lupton.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 03:47 PM

And where did I say the lyrics were by Chris?

Stop being snotty nosed and snivelling into your chip wrapper, just because you never thought to mention the song.

As I said...I won, I won, I won...

Teeheeeheeeeee...

And now, back to point scoring...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 03:54 PM

Well, you pasted the lyrics and wrote "One on a Million - Chris Wood". You also wrote "Chris Wood's award-winning song". The award was won by them both. I noted that the words are actually Hugh's merely for clarification.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 04:04 PM

Why Canadians (and English?) put vinegar on fried potatoes is beyond me.
The smell of vinegar is detestable, and destroys the delicate flavor of the potato.

Salt, and perhaps a little gravy, are by far the best additions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 04:28 PM

Ches's Fish and Chips in St' John's, Newfoundalnd.

And, if you ever land in Port-aux-Basques, NF... take a right and head for Margaree. But call first to see if the restaurant is open and at what time. I used to go there in the early 90s for the seafood platter. $8.95 and you couldn't finish it... salmon, halibut, cod fish cake, shrimp, scallop... and real veggies... unreal.

Now, I loikes yer fish and chips, but a feed a cod tongues and cheeks with mashed spuds and turnips and peas puddin got that there beat all ta hell eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 05:48 PM

Chris Wood is singing the song....I didn't put *written by*. And he did win an award for it....and he sang it.

(raises eyes to heaven smiley as the word 'Sourpuss' forms on her lips...)

Vinegar, anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 06:31 PM

I really love REAL 'potato scallops' (Oz) - they have a fraction of the fat of the now ubiquitous 'Yank Hash Brown', but they seem to be a dying tradition here. What IS available when on the menu, is mostly some sort of 'mass manufactured' thingie with negligible batter - unlike the thick crunchy batter covered real slabs of massive potatoes of my youth... :-(

I can remember when they would always be in the 'take away hot box' for less than 40 cents, now they are nearly $1.00 each...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 06:35 PM

Btw, I used to prefer mullet, but you can't get that now - the really heavy dark meat oily fish - funny now that they have discovered that that oil is full of Omega Stuff.... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 07:28 PM

Engish-born Frank and Jack Alger opened the first fish & chips shop in Seattle in 1934—called "The Spud"—on Alki Way in West Seattle. Some time later, they opened another near the shores of Green Lake in north Seattle, then a third at Juanita Beach at the north end of Lake Washington. Cod or halibut (your choice), breaded and deep-fried, with slab-cut potatoes. Condiments on the counter, such as ketchup and/or garlic vinegar. Take out or eat on the premises.

I lived near the one on East Green Lake Way and grew up on fish & chips from The Spud. Yum yum!!

I understand that in recent years, one or more of the Spuds have been taken over by the chain started by self-styled seafood tycoon, Ivar Haglund (also "flounder" of "Ivar's Acres of Clams" and several other seafood restaurants,, and the beginnings of a chain of seafood drive-ins in the area). I've been told that the Spuds "ain't quite what they usta be." Pity.

I could demolish a mess of fish & chips right now!!! (Drool drool!)

There was also a chain of "H. Salt, Esquire Fish & Chips" shops in this area, but I haven't seen one around for a few years now. There used to be one a few blocks from where I now live that I patronized quite often. It was very good also. But it's been replaced by a Taco Bell. That's not going to take care of my present hunger.

In addition to hamburgers, McDonald's also throws fish & chips out the window at passing cars. I tried them once and what can I say but "PTUI!!!"

In a local monastery, two of the brothers decided to open a fish & chip shop in an effort both to serve the community and to raise a bit of money for the monastery.

One day, one of the brothers was tending the counter when up stepped a fellow who fancied himself a bit of a comedian. "Tell me," said the would-be comic, "are you the fish friar?"

"No," replied the brother, "I'm the chip monk."

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 07:39 PM

Lizzie - it was Hugh Lupton's story. Give credit where credit's due?

Kitty


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 08:16 PM

Don, my mom grew up in West Seattle and swears by Spud's. It would be a pity if it were taken over by Ivar's. Although Ivar's is way better than Skipper's. Especially since I've never been to a Spud's (although I have driven past the one on Greenlake multiple times).

I remember H. Salt -- it was very good. So naturally it went out of business.

O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 10:22 PM

I've been googling around and checking web sites, and I note that the one for the Juanita Beach Spud says that it's family owned by the original owners. I've been trying to find out if what I was told, that Ivar had taken them over, was true, but so far, I've come up with nothing.

My father was an absolute whiz when it came to cooking fish. He learned it from his grandfather, who came over from Scotland with the Hudson's Bay Company and settled on San Juan Island, and from Native Americans around the islands. When Dad oven-broiled a salmon steak, it came out pure ambrosia—food for the Gods—salmon heaven! He said the temperature had to be exactly right, and there was a point of about twelve seconds' duration when it was perfect. Any less and it was two moist and any more and it began slowly turning to sawdust. Unfortunately, I never learned the art from him.

Dad wasn't too enchanted with Ivar's Acres of Clams. Ivar really ballyhooed his clam chowder. But where Ivar goofed with it was that he apparently didn't allow the clams enough time to clean themselves. When dug up, they're still alive, and if you put them in a bucket of fresh water and let them sit for a couple of hours, they expel all the sand they contain. Dad used to say that each bowl of Ivar's clam chower contain a tablespoonful of authentic Pacific Northwest beach.

I've never tried Ivar's fish & chips. What the heck! I'm game.

Spud's fish & chips may have been a heart attack on a paper plate, because the fish was dipped in batter and everything was deep-fried, but one would at least go out smiling. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 10:29 PM

Yes Ivar's chowder is putrid, and would be even without the sand. Skipper's is sheer boredom -- the only thing that separates it from Campbell's Cream of Potato is that it's gooier.

The only good chowder I've found in the region is at Wally's Fish House in Des Moines.

O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 10:55 PM

For those who might be bewildered by the geography: There is a Des Moines in Washington State. It's south of Seattle.

FYI

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:50 AM

Q - You need to go to The White Hart in Cumbria, where vinegar is banned. The landlord says it affects his very well kept beers so will not allow it in the place.

Lizzie - I didn't see any point scoring - just a point of fact. Mind you, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you...

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:15 AM

Excuse me, but over and over and OVER on the BBC board when Chris's song was up for an Award people told me to listen to it, because they thought I'd love it.

At NO time did Joan come on there (and yes, she was writing there at the time) and say "That' Hugh Lupton's song, not Chris Wood's!"

So sorry folks, but the pedantic vinegary ones are out again, as ever, to pour the vinegar on anything they can that I write, wherever possible. If they did it to others, then I'd have no problem, but...they don't.

I did NOT state that Chris wrote it....

Holy Jumping Battered Catfish!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:54 AM

Ahhh - Sorry. Didn't realise it was one of THOSE threads:-) I guess it's over then?

D.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:26 AM

T'aint over until the Fat Fryer sings...as they do say in Batterland.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:31 AM

Don't you mean The Chipmonks, Lizzie?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:50 AM

Hi Lizzie & crew

A very tasty thread....

I spend a lot of time in Menorca ( Spanish Balearic Island).

They have almost every kind of fresh fish that you can imagine. There is nothing better than fresh-caught fish cooked simply and eaten right in front of the water.

But for the Brits on a Friday one enterprising Spanish owned restaurant does fish and chips the English way....yes in batter.!!!!!

The fish and the chips are great but the Spanish just can't make mushy peas....!!

One day we persuaded the restaurant owner to have an English Folk night.....( no arguments about what kind of folk PLEASE).

We told him to put on his fish and chips and me my mate and our wives managed to find some dried peas in one of the shops and we made a big container of mushy peas.

Everyone praised the addition of the peas and the owner of the restaurant asked us if we were interested in supplying him with some.

My mate jokingly suggested that we two went into business by opening a Mushy Pea Factory.

Sorry to disagree with the non-vinegar lobby.....it's a must on hot sizzingly chips and fish.....yum yum

The island does have a folk club. It is held every night in a cave. No electrics....!!! Most if not all the songs are in Catalan or Menorcique ( a dialect of Catalan). There are some singers who sing in Spanish but they are in the minority.

I have been going there for over 25 years and the same man runs the bar and his guitarist has been with him all this time ( and much before we started going ). He is now in his 85th year.

I took some recordings on occasions and although the accoustics are not great....we sometimes open a bottle of Rioja and listen to our Spanish friends to remind us of many happy hors spent there.

cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 06:46 AM

That's a lovely story, Mike. Thank you...

In fact, there are some wonderful things in this thread..



"The island does have a folk club. It is held every night in a cave. No electrics....!!!"

Oh Cripes! It's my Show of Hands Cave, from the BBC board!!!...How wonderful! I had them in there when the electric failed or the end of the world was nigh, can't quite remember the whole story now, but it was fun...although, as always, I got into trouble for it from The Vinegar Gang....

Sigh..   ;0)

Mike, I'm on my way over...I have Spanish ancestors, the de Torres clan, who I've been told hang out somewhere near the mountains in er....some part of Spain..and the men are known locally for having blue eyes. Of course, I expect they eat fish and chips too.

Do you know, I've never tried Mushy Peas...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:06 AM

hi lizzie

Can't imagine Show of Hands without electrics....lol

member of the de Torres clan eh.... not the one who plays for Liverpool ???

Funnily enough only last night I was sorting out some of my music and songs and I came across Spanish Eyes.

I have known the song for many years but always thought that it started with the words two Spanish Eyes...only last night I noted the lyric and it is BLUE Spanish Eyes.....

Although we go to Menorca a lot my wife's sister lives in Andalucia not too far from Granada in Southern Spain. They have people living in caves there....but I don't think they have blue eyes.

They speak " normal" Spanish there...Castillian.

It is much much cheaper to live or visit there than Menorca.

Regards

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:18 AM

I was looking up Menorca and went off on a complete tangent when I fould this amazing comment in Wikipedia -

Menorquí also has a few English loan words dating back to the British occupation such as "grevi", "xumaquer", "boinder" and "xoc" taken from "gravy", "shoemaker", "bow window" and "chalk", respectively.

I wonder if they sing 'My Johnny was a xumaquer' in the cave?

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:31 AM

Applies in Spanish too.

Jamon normally refers to dried ham (sometimes given to vegetarians on the grounds it hasn't been cooked (!!).

Jamon de jor (or "yor") is what we called boiled ham. (Jamon de York)

Andalusians (in my experience) tend not to pronounce their letters very distinctively. Thus Madrid = Ma-ree. Almost with a glottal stop in the middle.

And the language is normally called "menorquin" (AFAIK). Most of those words would be pronounced as suggested except "xoc" which would be pronounced "shock". Which might be hard to see as "chalk".


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:58 AM

"Q - You need to go to The White Hart in Cumbria, where vinegar is banned. The landlord says it affects his very well kept beers so will not allow it in the place."

I love that. I used to work in a pub where the landlord used to say that a thunderstorm would turn the beer, but I've never heard anyone claim that simply being in the proximity of vinegar would have some mystical chemical effect. Fantastic!

For the record: I have absolutely no idea what Lizzie is talking about re other boards, other discussions, etc. Life is too short and frankly I can't even remember every real-life, important conversation I had three, four, five years ago, let alone internet trivia. I only mentioned that they were Hugh's lyrics as a point of clarification, as the story seemed to be the thing that was relevant to the thread. He is a storyteller, and as Kitty says, the story is his.

Re salt and vinegar vs without: for me, this has been a matter of taste changing over time (again). When I first came to England I never had salt on my chips, just vinegar - I think I was subconsciously frightened of a meal that not only had that much fat in it, but was also covered in salt. But my palate has changed over the years, and now I recognise the error of my ways: fish and chips with salt and vinegar is, in fact, the food of the gods (though I only tend to eat it once a year - as Lizzie says, the White Horse in Sidmouth is pretty hard to beat, and that's where I have my annual indulgence these days). But I still don't like salt and vinegar crisps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 08:07 AM

I must say, given the option, I usualy put just salt on my chips but I must say I don't mind a bit of vinegar when they put it on in the chippy. I love vinegar on tripe or black peas though. Mind you, not may people will eat either, with or without vinegar!

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 08:40 AM

D el G: whenever I make bean soup (either with gammon or lamb as the base) I put in about a dessert spoon of red wine vinegar. It really lifts the flavour. Vinegar and beans (or black peas) - yum!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 09:18 AM

I should think his aversion to vinegar in his pub, is because it could give rise to vinegar flies, aka fruit flies. As one of the best methods of trapping them is a 'beer trap', I imagine they would adore a pub cellar.
Most modern vinegars are so refined and pasteurised that the occurance of a 'mother of vinegar' is highly unlikely. However this growth can turn any alcoholic liquid to vinegar, and I assume that he may fear cross contamination, should such a beast arrive with his vinegar supply.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 09:44 AM

Hi dave

You are right about the pronunciation by the Andalusians.

They do tend to shorten words either by running letters together or as you say by missing off word endings.

They also pronounce the "c" plus a vowel as "ss" not "th" as in true Castilian.

When we go to Granada I always say that their dialect is to Spanish what Geordie or "Scouse" is to English.

The dried ham is usually called Jamon de Serrano and is delicious.

Certain regions in Andalucia still retain the tradition of Tapas.

When you go into a bar in these regions they will provide you with small portions of food free if you buy certain drinks....eg beer and wine but NOT tea coffee or spirits or water.

These tapas vary from bar to bar and can include, serrano ham, cheese, chorizo ( sausage ) fish, meats and of course bread etc.

So if you go out to lunch you don't need to buy food if you have a couple of drinks.

My wife's sister lives in onesuch region.

Regards

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 11:13 AM

I think it was something to do with the latter, John. There was a section about it in the menu but the beer was that good I forget what it said:-)

Running words together is quite common in Lancashire as well -'Nothing but' becomes nobbut; 'See you' becomes sithee and of course the most common - the abbreviation of 'the' to a 't' and glottal stop, as in 'put t'kettle on, Mother'. The 't' is not realy pronouced at all.

I intended saying before - I love fresh fish as well. Visiting Spain for the first time. some years ago, had me eating grilled Sardines every day for lunch at sea front cafes and getting various other types in bigger places during the evening - Marvelous stuff:-)

And Ruth - If that stuff you make has been soup, what is it now?

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 01:20 PM

When I was in Marseilles we spent a bit of time down on the old waterfront, and it hardly felt like being in a big bustling city at all. There was a restaurant there that clearly was aiming at an international clientele, because the menu was printed in about 10 different languages, not in sections, but each menu item had its own translation, then the next menu item, etc.

By the little British flag it said "Fried Fish" so we figured we were safe. What can they possibly do to fried fish that would scare a bunch of American boys?

When the fish came they were about 2 inches long, completely intact, with googly eyes staring at us. Lots and lots of googly eyes. Most of us passed.

I'm just sure that in the back room they were howling with laughter and when French people came in and ordered Le poisson frit, they got a nice chunk of white fish battered and fried. I'm just certain of it.

O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 01:25 PM

The landlord of wherever is of course quite wrong about vinegar affecting his beer. What causes beer to become vinegary is acetobacter. This may be present in some vinegars, but most British vinegar is non- brewed condiment, i.e. chemically produced acetic acid usually with some caramel colouring. It has never contained any acetobacter, indeed they couldn't thrive in it as ther's no alcohol for them to oxidise, which is how they make their living. And I suspect (though I don't know) that most brewed vinegars are heat- treated to stabilise them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 01:51 PM

Mousethief - surely the dish you got in Marseilles was what we call 'whitebait — a pile of small fish fried whole, often served here in good restaurants as a starter — I sometimes choose it when I lunch at The Groucho Club. Is it not known over there?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 02:41 PM

It's a delicious meal too


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:09 PM

Good Lordy!!

They serve 'perfumed' fish and chips in The Little Chef chain...

?????

From a 2008 article in the Telegraph, which I can't seem to link to..

>>>By Matt Warman
Published: 7:25PM GMT 27 Nov 2008

Heston Blumenthal at work in the kitchen
Mr Blumenthal is best know for his bizarre menus – including snail porridge and bacon and egg ice cream – at The Fat Duck at Bray, Berkshire, which has three Michelin stars and has previously been voted the best restaurant in the world.

Little Chef, meanwhile, enjoyed iconic status in the 1980s but has more recently suffered a decline, as its menu became perceived as unhealthy and out of date. From nearly 400 restaurants at its peak, the chain has dwindled to a current level of under 200.

Launching it, Mr Blumenthal said: "This absolutely isn't Little Heston's. I've tried to create a menu that could, if we train people properly, be rolled out to every Little Chef across the country."

Mr Blumenthal's plan involves fish and chips arriving at the table accompanied by a small bottle labelled "the smell of the chippy". Customers will then be encouraged to spray the "perfume" under their nostrils as they eat. The resulting aroma, intended to enhance the flavour, is redolent of pickled onions.

How bizarre!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:10 PM

I posted an answer about this about an hour ago and now it's not here. Is it just me going crazy?

Anyway we don't have anything by that name or description. Not that I'm particularly aggrieved about that.

O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:15 PM

Hi mousethief

MtheGM is right they would have been what we call whitebait. Delicious by the way.

Your experience has happened to us in Spain. Like you we went to a small fishing village and ordered what was called fried fish on the "translation" on the Spanish menu. We got the little ones fried whole.

These are called boquerones in spanish and you get these if you order fried fish. If you want the bigger ones that we all get in our own countries you have to specify that you want pescado frito.

Same in France....you got friture......the big fish are ordered as poissons frit.

Because I have been to Spain many times I taught myself to understand the language. Had many laughable incidents along the way because I insisted in ordering everything in Spanish and I THOUGHT I knew what I was ordering. Luckily I can and do eat almost anything but my good lady gave me some ear-ache on occasions...

I have been asked many times while in Spain to help English people who don't speak the language. Two amusing ones stand out...I was in the local Spanish Supermarket one day ( two checkouts !!!) and an English guy had heard me ordering what I wanted in Spanish. He asked me if I knew the Spanish for puff pastry I told him that I knew what pastry was but that I was not going to ask a Spaniard what was the Spanish for puff...lol

The other happened in the local Spanish Pharmacy. Don't ask me why but they never appear to have anyone who speaks English. Anyway this day there was an English lady looking flustered at the counter so I asked if I could help. She told me that she had forgotten to pack her HRT medication and was staying for a month. I asked her what was the pharmceutical name but I just couldn't get it over to the pharmacist I ended up by literally saying the letters HRT ( which are meaning less in spanish) something like "ache erre te" So she brought out all the different kinds and the lady spotted the one she took.

Part of the fun going abroad is some of the surprise that can happen......my wife and I always just go with the flow...the Spanish are delightful people and they try to be most helpful - we have made many Spanish friends from this.

hasta la vista

miguel


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:36 PM

I remember trying to explain that I had indigestion to a non-English speaking pharmacist in Boulogne - Boy did I fee a twerp when I found out what indigestion was in French:-)

It was nothing to do with Fish and Chips BTW but a lot to do with mixing beer, wine and cafe cognac!

On the subject of food in Boulogne, most of the cafes their seem to do something called 'Welsh'. Never found out what it was but what do you think would happen if you wnet into a cafe in Cardiff and asked if they did French?

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:38 PM

Mousethief, they are called Smelts in America and can certainly be found on the Eastern seaboard, and possibly elsewhere. They are popular throughout the Mediterranean as well - my Sicilian grandmother used to cook them regularly when I was little. Despite their small size they have a very strong, fishy flavour, and although I will eat pretty much anything that comes out of the sea (and especially out of a shell), I won't touch smelts (or whitebait) with a barge pole.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:46 PM

Oh, and a factoid: I remember my uncle once told me that smelts/whitebait are the source of the term "small fry"!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:48 PM

"Whitebait are young fish; in Europe the term applies to young herring, but in other parts of the world it is used for similar fish of other species. Whitebait are tender and edible. The entire fish is eaten including head, fins and gut but typically each 'bait' is only 25-50 mm in length and about 3 mm in cross section."

According to Wikipedia, smelts are up to 20cms in length.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:48 PM

Smelts are also found on west coast B. C. and Vancouver Island.
We had them, fresh netted, on a Vancouver Island beach one evening; they were tasty and not strongly flavored. We had potatoes baked in the coals of our fire. A meal we remember with pleasure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:51 PM

The ones my grandmother cooked were about two or three inches long - they must have been young ones, just like whitebait.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:57 PM

I've been a fish and chips devotee since visiting New Zealand in the late 70s. They sold it in traditional fashion, and more besides. One could also buy huge hamburgers such as the Hawaii Burger, with a big ring of pineapple on, or the Texas Burger, with a fried egg. The complete burger was put sideways into a brown paperbag so that as you ate at one end, and the overcrowded food betwixt the buns fell in the other, you would not create a greasy mess on the floor and you had greasy bits to eat after the bun was over.
There was also a paua sandwich, which was nothing less than a big hunk of fried abalone.
And there were savalloys, than which nothing could be nastier more.
But the fish 'n chips were also outstanding and fresh and hot and everywhere. And with malt vinegar.
the very best fish and chips I've ever had, in NZ and in Canada, were prepared by cooks of Greek heritage. Just an observation.
About twenty years after NZ visit, I was flying my own little plane across Canada to Alaska, and more than once I had to stop for fresh Canadian fish and chips. One occasion I landed at a small airport and there was nothing there, but the operations director was happy to loan me an old beater of a car to go into town and fetch me a big ol' bag of fandc, and I'll never forget taking off into a crosswind with that greasy bag next to me filling the cockpit with that earthy odor of grease and fish. Up Up and Away!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fish & Chips - 150 years old today
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:37 PM

I remember with pleasure the mahi-mahi sandwiches in Hawai'i, the fish in a bun with lettuce, etc, and served with french fries (chips). A place in Hilo had the best, but others were almost as good.
I have lived in Canada many years, but I never heard of the Texas or Hawaii burger.
I remember a favorite of Hawaiians- two scoops rice, two burgers, two eggs, gravy. Guaranteed to add weight by the ton.


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