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Tune for Brand Lincoln same as Irish?

Mrrzy 15 Jan 10 - 07:33 PM
Jack Campin 15 Jan 10 - 08:35 PM
Mrrzy 16 Jan 10 - 11:07 AM
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Subject: Tune for Brand Lincoln same as Irish?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 07:33 PM

I heard an old Oscar Brand song about Lincoln and Liberty, that I could tell at the time was the same tune as an Irish rebellion song, I think it was Men of the West/Rosin the Bow, but am by now not sure as I didn't post this right away, because I was actually *researching* it before asking y'all!!

So, the easy question is what is the tune, and the hard one is who had it first, I assume ole Oscar got it from the Irish, although it was Tom Lehrer who got it from, I think, Bertie...

?? Thanks, y'all scholars!

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Subject: RE: Tune for Brand Lincoln same as Irish?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:35 PM

Here is a post by Bruce Olson to Ballad-L about "Rosin the Beau".

Note that an early sheet music issue of "Rosin then Beau" (not the two
1838 ones) in the Lester Levy Sheet Music Collection (on their website)
calls the song 'A Southern Ballad'.

On the tune: There's basically nothing new below here except figuring
out what tunes some of Bayard's sometimes awkward references
actually refer to.

S. P. Bayard, 'Dance to the Fiddle, March to the Fife', #620,
traces the tune to a "Gigg" following "The Lowlands
of Holand" in James Oswald's 2nd volume of 'A Collection of
Curious Scots Tunes', n.d. [1742]. I have not found a copy of
that work, but it's repeated (again perceeded by "The Lowlands of
Holand") in his 'Caledonian Pocket Companion', II, c 1745. Bayard
suggested that the tune was composed by Oswald himself (as for
other 'Gigg' and 'Gigga' Oswald scattered around in these works), and
I consider that quite likely also. While I had copied "The
Lowland of Holand" from CPC, I neglected to copy the 'Gigg', and
I was remiss in failing to note down my source for the ABC below,
but am reasonably certain that it was supplied by Jack Campin,
after my request for it on the Scots-L newsgroup.

T:"Gigg" (next to last tune, following "The Low Lands of Holand")
S:CPC book II p36
K:A mixolydian
E| A2 A (Bc)e| f3    a3 |(ec)A (AB)c|(Bc)A (B^G)
E|(AB)A (Bc)e| f3    a2f|(ec)A TB2 A| A3-   A2:|
e| a2 a (^ga)g|Tf3 {f}e2c| B2B (Bc)e| a2^g Tf3 |
   a3    (ec)A|(Bc)e f2a| efA TB2 A| A3-   A2:|]

Bayard also found the tune in the 2nd strain of "Dumfries House"
in vol. 1 of Gow's 'Complete Repository' (and this would have
been known to many fiddlers). After the 1st (1799)
edition this was attributed to John Riddle.

T:Dumfries House [by Jo. Riddle - in 3rd ed]
S:Gow's 'Complete Repository, vol. 1 [1799 for 1st ed]
S:2nd strain only here
B/c/|dBd dBd|gag "tr"f2e|dBd d3/2c/2B|AFDD2B/c/|dBd bBd|\
gag"tr"f2e|dcB AGF|"tr"G3/2G2B/c/|dBd dBd|gag"tr"f2e|\
dBd dcB|AFDD2B/c/|dBd ece|fdf gfe|dcB Agf|gdB G||

(Yes that was me, we'd exchanged emails about it).

So: American adaptation of a Scottish tune. Ireland doesn't come into it.

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Subject: RE: Tune for Brand Lincoln same as Irish?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 11:07 AM

Wow! Thanks! Not sure where Oscar Brand got it...

But Men of the West is certainly Irish, no?

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