Tech: Printing question

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 07:24 PM

Ah! Thank you so much John. Now I've got it.
You've solved my problem and added to my knowledge of computers. Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 02:16 AM

Joybell -

If it prints one side upside down, it's putting the binding margin at the top. (Like a spiral bound steno notepad, if you recognise that style of "book.")

In the duplex printing menu, you should be able to set the binding margin on the left and it should flip right. The margin can be zero widt, but it needs to be in the right place.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 02:01 AM

Ah!!! John, Just clicked on "Duplex printing" and it does print both sides by taking the paper back. No turning over. Clever!
Funny new problem though. It's printing upside down. Still -- I think I'm getting somewhere.
Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 01:54 AM

SJ, but you can do two pages at a time in the way I noted above. Still slow but a bit of an improvement.
John, I'll go back to the point where I saw the "Duplex Printing" term. Thank you.
Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: GUEST,goodlife
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 01:54 PM

Hi i don't have a problem with printing odd's and even's with publisher .I am running publisher 2002 on win xp with a hp printer
open publisher goto file/print /properties /finishing tab tick the box print on both sides put how many sheets of paper divided by 2 into printer and press ok and print when you get to the last page grab hold of them all and put them back into the printer not as easy as that i know but with practice it become's easier try 4 pages first till you get the hang of it regards john

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: sleepyjon
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 12:43 PM

Technicalities apart (and I agree with the pseudo-printer for pdf route) the main problem is still the physical one of reversing the stack and getting the second sides printed correctly - unless you have a top-flight printer and the best quality paper. Myself, having lots of time and patience and very little money I use the single sheet feeder slot and stand over the d.....thing catching each page and turning it over. (Yes, I know - sad!!)

Whatever you do, don't go for the whole 80-odd sheets in one. Do it a few at a time! Otherwise, a wreck or double feed at about number 40 will waste more paper (and time) than you hope to gain and you'll be knee-deep in scrap paper.

SJ

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 12:39 PM

At Joybell's second post:

19 Jan 10 - 06:14 PM

Thank you for your trouble Guest 999. I found the "Duplex Printing" term. I already knew I could print single pages and turn them over so it was no help.
So Publisher can't just print evens or odds then?

I don't see why this means you have to print one sheet at a time.

If you check on the Duplex Printing, when you print you should get a print of all of the even numbered pages (or all of the odd numbered ones) and the printer will stop and wait for you to turn the intire stack over and put it back in the feed tray. When you've made the swap, the printer will resume and will print the other side of the pages (odd or even, depending on which were printed first). The computer will take care of reversing the print order automatically if needed. You should not need to do it "one page at a time."

In programs that offer "duplex printing" or "print both sides" you probably/usually won't find the "print odd pages" or "print even pages" choices.

For a work-around, if you absolutely need to print only one side of pages, a workaround is to use the duplex printing setting to print one side, but take the printed sheets out of the printer and then cancel the print job without printing the other side.

If your printer starts the duplex print job on the even pages and you only want the odd pages, just insert one page at the front of the document to shift the page numbers and start a new "duplex print" job, aborting after the one side you want is printed.

Note that if you have to "insert a page" to shift the page numbers, you probably will want to make a copy of the original file and edit and print from the copy (which you can delete when finished, if you want) so you don't accidentally replace the original if the version with the extra page gets saved. If you're printing page numbers, you'll have to "restart" the numbers after the inserted page. If you're including a Table of Contents or Index other adjustments will be needed. Thus it's sometimes not a trivial "go back" to restore to the original document.

If you only need, for example, the odd pages from page 37 through 41, you should be able to set the "print pages" range independent from the setting to print duplex or print both sides that you need to set in order to print only every other page.

The "duplex printing" and "print both sides," and removal of the option to print odd or print even are a result of the same "new philosophy" that pervades Office 2007:

users are too stupid to be allowed to do what they want to do, and should only be permitted to use "simple features" that "we" decide they need.

(The corrolary to the new philosophy is that the people who designed the "new programs" were selected for their lack of knowledge about how the old programs worked and how they were used.)

The "simplified methods" aren't always simpler to work with.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Newport Boy
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 04:03 AM

Joybell

If you decide to try FinePrint, you might split the 150 page document into sections. I've printed loads of 30-40 pages, but I do notice the difference in response as the pages go above 20. This is because FinePrint has to print all the odd pages to memory before routing them to the actual printer.

JiK - there are differences in options available printing from different programs. Printing from pdfs gives me a totally different set of choices compared to word processors, and spreadsheets are different again. I don't know Pagemaker, but perhaps it doesn't allow odd/even page selection.

Phil

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 11:50 PM

Joybell

When I click Print, a simple menu comes up that lets me select which printer to use. This menu doesn't change regardless of which of my half dozen printers I select.

On this first menu, there is a check box for "Manual Duplex Printing." With a check in this box, it should print all the odd or all of the even pages, then pause and tell me to reload the pages and hit the button to restart the printer so it can print the other side of the pages.

Directly to the right of the box that shows which printer I'm using is the Preferences Button.

With my Canon MP160 selected, when I click the Preferences button, and select the Page Setup tab, there's a box that can be checked/unchecked labelled "Duplex Printing." Putting a check in that box should work like the "print both sides" selection I've described above in the thread, but if you put the check in the box on this menu you can also specify a "staple margin" and tell it how wide to make it. The printing process is pretty much the same, regardless of which menu you use to set the option.

If I choose a different printer, a similar choice appears but on a different tab (after I click Preferences). Both Canon printers show the "duplex printing" option but two HP printers that I looked at show it as "print both sides." Among five different printers that I looked at, the tab showing the critical option had three different labels, and menus using the same "tab name" were not located the same for the printers that used that name.

This is with the Vista drivers for these printers. The menu probably will be a little different for an XP (or earlier) driver. You apparently can add "Duplex Print" to "Print Both Sides" and "Print Odd/Even Pages" as things you might find that all do the same thing but may do it slightly differently. Other printers may use other names for the same option(s).

The "print pages in reverse order" may appear regardless of whether the odd/even pages option is on the menus or the "both sides" or "duplex" options are the ones that appear, since it can be helpful when switching between printers that deliver the pages face up vs those where they come out face down.

If the selection you're offered is "duplex" or "both sides" (or something we haven't thought of that might be vaguely similar) you probably won't need to flip the forward/reverse box, since the driver should make the change automatically for you, when it pauses for you to reload the pages (... maybe).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Newport Boy
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 05:17 PM

Joybell

If you only want a record copy for your own use, and don't mind a little acknowledgement at the bottom of each page, download FinePrint from www.fineprint.com

It's a general purpose print utility which sits between Windows and the printer (it appears as another printer). One of its options is double-sided printing on any printer which can physically do it. My old HP Laserjet 4L won't - it heats the paper too much on the first side, and the second side jams.

It's 100% reliable - I've been using it through all it's versions for more than 10 years. If it works for you and you can't stand the banner, purchasing removes it.

Phil

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 04:32 PM

Thanks, John. I actually went to all the options, I could find, offered by my printer.   It allows me to "Print in reverse order", "Collate" with a picture so I understand that option. All the other possibilities are to do with "Page setup", and quality of the printing. I also went to "Tools", and "Help". I can't find anywhere else to look.
I'm running WinXP and my printer is a one-year-old Canon.
I never use the "Quick print" option.
The "print odds or evens" option I had 10 years ago seemed to be within a free Lotus program that came with the computer. It worked with each new printer for several years. It worked in the way you explain it in your last sentence.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 11:22 AM

Joybell -

From my Project 2007, in Vista, clicking on Print opens the Windows Print Menu.

For three different printers that I looked at, the choice needed is on the "Preferences" button on that menu, next to the box where you select a different printer. For one printer it's on the "Finishing" tab, and on another it's on an "Options" tab, and I don't remember what the tab was called on the third printer.

In most Vista drivers, the choice is a "print both sides," which will print half the pages (the driver chooses which half) and then will pause for you to turn the output stack over/around and put it back into the feed tray. For the printers where I've tried "duplex printing" from Vista I get an on-screen instruction for which way to turn/flip the stack, but you may have to puzzle it out for some printers or for WinXP printer drivers.

Once the stack is back in the feed tray, if the choice was a "print both sides" one, you'll likely have to hit a "resume" button on the printer to resume printing and print the other side. In Vista, the driver takes care of the front-to-back and back-to-front switch automatically.

With WinXP drivers, you're more likely to find the print-odd and print-even choices, in some similar place, and you may have to click a "print in reverse order" - not necessarily on the same menu as for the odd/even selection - for one half of the print, and click it off for the other - or versee/vicee.

Where the choice is the odd/even pages kind of setting, printing one side is one print job, and you start from the beginning with a new print job, change the settings, and print the other side of the pages as a separate "Print" job.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 10:57 AM

GtD -

For all recent versions of Office, you can download a free "PDF Filter" driver from Microsoft. It's included as standard in the most recent versions. Once the driver is installed, you can "Save As" directly from Word and choose PDF to get a PDF file on your drive.

My Word 2007 offers 17 different formats you can use to save a file, but I don't believe I have all of the available filters installed.

Word, PDF, or anything else, what you can print and how you can print it depends on what driver you have installed for the printer you're using so changing to PDF doesn't make a difference if you're going to kill a tree and ink it.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 10:44 AM

The option to print odd pages or print even pages, or to print both sides depends on the driver for the printer you're using, and not directly on the program from which you print.

When you set a default printer, some programs will get the features that printer can use, and will show them in a page setup or options location in the program's own Print menus. If you use a "quick print" option some programs will send the job directly to the default printer without giving you additional choices, but usually once you hit the go-button in the program's print menu a second menu (the Windows Print Menu) showing the options available in the driver will come up, where you can make additional choices. If you switch to a different printer here, the options shown here may change.

The option of which pages to print normally appears in the "Windows Printer" window, but a few programs have the same settings in the program's (internal) print setup. Either one may override the other. With a few (older) printers, you needed to set the same both places; but with newer ones I've seen setting it in one place (if it appears on more than one menu) usually was sufficient.

Once upon a time, about the only way to print both sides of a large document was to print all the pages, flip the stack and put it back in but add one blank sheet, and then print all the pages. Throw away the half of the pages on which the odd-numbered page is one higher than the even numbered page on it's flip side, and the pages that are left will be numbered correctly with the even-numbered page after the odd page on the flip side. (Sometimes you had to re-stack the pages in reverse order during the flip.)

For very short documents, you could use the "Print Current Page" to step through the document, printing all the odd pages, then flip the output and put it back in and step through again (back to front or front to back as needed) to print all the even pages. Sometimes this is easier than finding the setup - for documents of a few pages - than "doing it right."

I haven't seen a printer in recent decades that didn't have the "odd-or-even" or the "both-sides" option, but the location varies from one printer to the next. In most printers I've used recently, the setting will be somewhere on a "Page Setup," "Options," or "Preferences" button, but may be on any of numerous tabs in any of these - or somewhere else.

Since the feature depends on the driver for the printer you select changing from Word to PDF doesn't generally change the selections available when you print - although they may appear in a different place in the menus.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 04:45 AM

Tootler's suggestion of converting to PDF is a sensible option. You can install a programme called a "Virtual Printer", which instead of sending your print output to a physical printer, converts it to a PDF file which you save on your computer. The resulting PDF can be distributed in that format, or loaded into Acrobat reader, which allows you to print odd or even pages.
There are a number of PDF virtual printers out there, some cost cash, others are free. Some have more features added in, but for your purpose, all you need is a free one which will convert your output. Tootler gives a clicky to one. There are others out there - CutePDF Writer, doPDF, PDFCreator, to list some freeware ones. I have no idea which is the best, but they all do something similar.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 04:14 AM

That's what I'm doing. I don't need the printer to turn the pages over all I want is a way to print more than two pages at a time. I did print page 1 turn over, print 2 and 3, turn page 3, print pages 4 and 5. And so on. 167 pages is a lot of turning and setting up.
I do value everyone's time and concern. Thank you.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 11:25 PM

You need a 'Duplexing Printer' a machine that internally turns over the page, if you want it automatically. Otherwise, you just have to do it manually. But from experience, "you can print one, reinsert the pages, and print the other on the opposite side of the sheets", if Murphy gets involved, you an have some pages already printed, stuff up and then.... :-(

Sigh...

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 11:00 PM

Thanks, Simon. My book is already online, on a folklore web-site. Such a thrill! A very special friend made it web-ready.
It's just that I like to be able to have a hard copy or two. I still have a few friends not yet bored with the subject.
Just printed off a copy two pages at a time. It's actually 167 pages long. Took ages.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Simon G
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 10:47 PM

Joy - not sure I'd count it as a conversion if it left all the pictures and borders behind.

It is amazing there is no alternative to Publisher around, all the other page layout programs are expensive or pretty tacky. There is a open source one - scribus but I've never used it.

I recommend checking out the use of PDF as an intermediary format it will solve your printing problems and also give you the ability to produce a document others can read online or on their computer without requiring Publisher. With primopdf it doesn't cost you anything either.

Simon

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:36 PM

Thanks for all that John. I'll ponder it over a cup of coffee.
Simon -- I'm always making up books -- Play scripts and the like -- using Publisher. Most are at least 30 pages. (Not 150 but all more than a few pages). Also, for what it's worth, I can easily convert multiple-page Publisher documents, including this 150 page one, to other word processor programs. It's just that I have pictures and borders that don't convert.
The Lotus program I used to have was a program more like Publisher. Last time I looked for it it wasn't available free or even cheap.
I've not found a program that does what I want using pictures and borders and the like.
Thank you all for the input.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Simon G
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:54 PM

PDF is the way to do it. use http://primopdf.com of similar - its free print from publisher to PDf then open with acrobat reader and it has the option to print to your printer odd or even pages.

I am amazed you managed 150 pages in publisher, it was never designed to do anything more that few. It will be difficult to impossible to export out of. Lotus word processing, etc is free http://symphony.lotus.com as is Open Office.

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:45 PM

John, I am using Word 2007 and a Canon MP 620. It accepts the command Print>Odd Pages (vice "All Pages in Range") and does so. Granted, doing it this way requires printing all of the odd pages, restacking and reloading, and then printing the even pages. Not simple, but possible.

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:03 PM

The method(s) you have to use can depend on the printer, and sometimes there are multiple drivers available for a printer, each offering different options for further variations.

When you click "Print," or the printer icon, in many programs, you may get an "Options" screen that lets you set up the program for special printing choices. Some programs omit this step and send you directly to the printer driver's control screen(s).

A frequent option, when the program offers an options screen is a "Page Setup" button, which may open a window with several tabs, and often one or more buttons on each tab. There may also be an "Options" button that goes to the "Properties" setup for the printer selected. Unfortunately popups at this point frequently don't allow you to select which printer you intend using, so the available choices may depend on the printer you have set as your default.

When you have made your choices on the "program options" popup, you oten will proceed to a popup provided by the driver you have installed for the printer. This popup usually offers a place to choose which printer to use, if you have multiple printers "installed" on the computer. Changing to a different printer may show a completely different choice of settings available - which may or may not be compatible with the "default printer" settings made in the preceding popup.

On this popup (which usually will have multiple tabs) you'll find various boxes and buttons where usually you can make numerous choices.

In addition, you can make "document settings" within some programs, before proceding to the "Print" command, that will pick a default set of choices.

For some program/printer combinations you'll have only one of the above (3) places where choices can be set up. For some you may have any two or all three.

In some cases, where you have more than one of the locations you may find that settings made in one may override the settings made in another of the places. Many programs also have "Quick Print" buttons (usually a Printer icon) that skip all of the options and use some default.

With 5 printers set up, and running them from a half-dozen programs on three or four computers, I can attest that there is very little consistency from one combination to another.

In some cases, you may actually find a selection to print even pages or odd pages only, so that you can print one, reinsert the pages, and print the other on the opposite side of the sheets. With some printer/driver/program combinations, you will have to print either the odd pages or the even pages in "reverse order."

In some cases you may find only a "print both sides" option. When you select this option, the printer (and its driver) will decide which "face" to print first, then will pause - and sometimes tell you to turn the pages over and reinsert them in the printer - after which you have to hit a button to print the opposing face of all the pages.

Printers (actually the drivers) that show a "print both sides" option seldom give you the even/odd numbered pages choice. This simplifies the initial print order, but makes a mess when one page misprints and the odd/even pairs of pages are on the wrong sheets - i.e. printer error recovery is a bitch.

To find the places where you can make the choice you want, you almost always have to go through the typical File|Print|... step(s) since clicking a print icon very often executes a "Quick print" default with no access to any options.

(MS Word 2007 does not offer an even/odd choice (that I've found) with any of the printers I use it with currently. It only offers a "print both sides" choice. My prevous Word 2002 offered the even/odd pages option, but a separate even/odd setting in the print driver for one of my printers "flipped" which actually printed first - reversing the choice set in Word.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:43 PM

Turn it into a pdf. The acrobat reader supports printing odd and even pages separately.

If publisher does not support saving as a pdf, there are several free pdf creators available.

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:19 PM

No No. Make that Print page 1. Turn over. Print pages 2 and 3. Turn page 3. Print pages 4 and 5.
I'll be away for a while. Make me lots of coffee and feed me chocolate.

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:14 PM

Thank you for your trouble Guest 999. I found the "Duplex Printing" term. I already knew I could print single pages and turn them over so it was no help.
So Publisher can't just print evens or odds then?

So why is it called Publisher? **& :-((!! This means I have to print a book of 150 pages one page at a time? I realize I could do page 1 then 3 and 4 together and so on.
Thanks, Art I'll keep that in mind. This particular publication has pictures and other bits that won't transfer easily.
Oh! Lotus where are you when I need you.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:55 PM

Can you transfer the file to MS Word? That will print even/odd.

Subject: RE: Tech: Printing question
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:49 PM

"It is often preferrable to print a publication using both sides of a single sheet of paper. This is called duplex printing. Some printers have a setting to turn the paper automatically and print on both sides. On printers that do not support duplex printing, you can manually perform duplex printing.

Manual duplex printing requires that you print all the odd numbered pages first. When they are finished printing, you have to remove the printed pages from the printer, turn or rotate the pages based on how the printer feeds the paper, and then place the paper back in the printer so that you can print the reverse side.

*****Microsoft Publisher does not have the ability to print only the even or odd numbered pages in a publication.*****


However, starting with Microsoft Publisher 2002, you can use a Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) macro to do manual duplex printing."

That's from a google of

microsoft publisher, print only even numbered pages

Subject: Tech: Printing question
From: Joybell
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:38 PM

Maybe it's me. I can't believe I need to ask but:

How can I set my printer up to print all the even pages of a book and then the odd ones? I'm using Microsoft Publisher. Tried other programs but I really need this one.

Early on I was using Lotus and I could just click on a box that said "Print odd pages only". Can't afford Lotus now. How simple those days were.

I've been through "help" over and over, asking the question in every way I can think of. I learned how to print single pages on both sides! Clever that. :-) Do you know you can just turn the paper over? Amazing! Please can anyone help? I'd be so grateful.
Cheers, Joy