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BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?

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Goose Gander 21 Jan 10 - 12:33 AM
Joe Offer 21 Jan 10 - 12:43 AM
Goose Gander 21 Jan 10 - 01:08 AM
Bert 21 Jan 10 - 03:03 AM
jeffp 21 Jan 10 - 09:04 AM
Rapparee 21 Jan 10 - 09:21 AM
GUEST,crazy little woman 21 Jan 10 - 11:43 AM
catspaw49 21 Jan 10 - 12:01 PM
DougR 21 Jan 10 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,crazy little woman 21 Jan 10 - 01:49 PM
mg 21 Jan 10 - 01:58 PM
JohnInKansas 21 Jan 10 - 07:18 PM
Bill D 22 Jan 10 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,crazy little woman 22 Jan 10 - 11:53 PM
Seamus Kennedy 23 Jan 10 - 12:07 AM
catspaw49 23 Jan 10 - 12:30 AM
cptsnapper 23 Jan 10 - 01:18 AM
eddie1 23 Jan 10 - 08:08 AM
Goose Gander 30 Jan 10 - 11:51 PM
olddude 31 Jan 10 - 12:26 AM
mousethief 31 Jan 10 - 12:50 AM
Goose Gander 31 Jan 10 - 02:07 AM
GUEST,.leeneia 31 Jan 10 - 03:21 PM
michaelr 31 Jan 10 - 04:15 PM
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The Fooles Troupe 04 Feb 10 - 01:11 AM
Goose Gander 04 Feb 10 - 02:58 PM
Goose Gander 14 Feb 10 - 04:27 AM
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Subject: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 12:33 AM

I've been able to achieve a tender, flavorful brisket by smoking for 4 or 5 hours, then wrapping the meat in foil to complete cooking - usually another 6 hours. But it has been brought to my attention that some consider this cheating. So I ask all of you: is it cheating to wrap the brisket in foil for the second half of the cooking? It's not like I'm putting it in the slow cooker - I have some pride, for crying out loud. Just like to hear some opinions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 12:43 AM

Hi, GG-

Who sets the rules on what's cheating and what's not? If you like it, more power to you. If your guests like it, then hurray!!!

But what, pray tell, is wrong with using a slow cooker?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 01:08 AM

'Cheating' because the foil steams the brisket when the idea is to slow-smoke it, or so I am told.

In my experience, the slow cooker just turns it to mush. Still tasty, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 03:03 AM

Whatever works.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: jeffp
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 09:04 AM

Covering with foil for part of the cook is a normal part of the process, as far as I am concerned. When I do baby back ribs, I cook them uncovered for 2 hours, foiled for 1 hour and uncovered for another hour or so until they are done. They come out tender and juicy and with a bit of chew left in them. Not quite falling off the bone. I like them to feel like meat. And I use a combination of apple and pecan smoke with my own rub.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 09:21 AM

If it tastes good, eat it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 11:43 AM

Pay no attention to those other people, Goose Gander. They mean well, but they know not of what they speak. As a resident of Kansas City, I AM in the know.

The others innocently suppose that we cook food to provide something to eat. True, that is often the case, but there are other reasons. One reason is to flaunt wealth and sophistication (gourmet). Another is a kinder, gentler form of gladiator combat. We call this 'barbecue.'

Just for one example, explore    http://www.arbbq.com/

Competition barbecue has written and unwritten rules. There's usually a team, and the team should have a witty name. It should have its very own sauce or rub, which must have at least eight ingredients, including one secret one.

The team needs a big, greasy cooking unit which is hauled by a pick-up truck, and cooking the meat (we're not talking vegetarians here) must take all night. The smoker is fueled by wood and the cooks are fueled by beer.

In other words, it's a male-bonding thing.

So Goose, I can't answer your question for you. You are straddling the line between the mere feeding of people and the ritual of barbecue. I suggest you consult your conscience, then hide the foil before the guests arrive. Especially male guests.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 12:01 PM

Glad I got here AFTER crazy woman because that was along the lines of what I was going to say. I'd add only one other instruction along with "hide the foil."   

If you can come up with some wacky-ass idea that has just a tiny germ of truth in it, develop it into a mystique. Then give out only the high points of your bullshit story, add that it is an old "family secret," and suggest that anymore will never pass your lips.   With this tidbit going for you, you can serve up some of the worst crap in the world to rave reviews.   Doesn't always work, but if you crank out a loser brisket (or barbeque or whatever) and you add this story in BEFORE serving, you can sometimes pass off dog turds for bratwurst.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: DougR
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 12:24 PM

If you are cooking it for your family or friends, there are no rules. Cook it the way you like it. I have a smoker and use it often. I'm not into professional competitions, though, so the rules I use are of my own choosing. I often smoke the meat for two or three hours and finish the brisket, ribs, etc. in the kitchen oven. Works for me.

Pay no attention to crazy little woman, though, folks that hail from Kansas City consider themselves expert in the art of cooking bar-b-que but they can't hold a candle to Texans. :>)

DougR (An ex-Texan)


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 01:49 PM

Pay no attention to Texans. They are capable of putting jalapenos in the sauce.
======
Thank you, Spaw. I'm glad somebody else understands about hiding the foil.
======
Our favorite BBQ item is country ribs. We have two methods:

1. I cook them in the oven with homemade sauce in a Reynolds' oven bag.

2. I cook them in the slow cooker. When tender, remove fat. Chill. Later, the DH finishes them over a wood fire in the backyard, again, basted with homemade BBQ sauce.

It satisfies his cave-man instincts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: mg
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 01:58 PM

Unless you are in a contest with rules forbidding foil, just make what you like...mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 07:18 PM

There appears to be some sense at

From: GUEST,crazy little woman - PM
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 11:43 AM

Pay no attention to those other people, Goose Gander. They mean well, but they know not of what they speak. As a resident of Kansas City, I AM in the know.


But the entire post is rendered suspect byt the subsequent comment:

The team needs a big, greasy cooking unit which is hauled by a pick-up truck

This implies that the smoker can be hauled in a pickup truck(?).

In my Kansas/Oklahoma area, no self-respecting "smoker" would make an appearance with anything small emough to not reequire it's own four-wheel trailer, and at least a deuce-and-a-half tow vehicle to haul a minimum necessary supply of fuel. A separate vehicle to tow the "ice trailer" would be a needed accompaniment to bring the "animal(s)" to be prepared, unless there's a gas/propane/diesel reefer with a walk-in freezer on the "deuce."

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 01:24 PM

With entire television programs and series devoted to BBQ, where to find it, how to cook it, and contests about it, it is easy to see why such a thread might get started.

BBQ is a VERY American deal, with regional variants that boggle the mind....and all good! (In one area in Tennessee, BBQ means goat!)
I have had BBQ in Texas, in Washington DC (where you must be careful!) and in Kansas (both in Wichita and at "http://www.arbbq.com", which I can tell without looking stands for Arthur Bryant's). I have also had my brother's from his custom-built smoker.

If one is reasonably careful, it is hard to find really bad BBQ. So, using foil? Sure....use whatever makes it good. Then try it another way next time......and call me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 11:53 PM

John, I am SO impressed by the statistics on Kansas/Oklahoma border rigs. I had no idea.

Bill D, that was an astute surmise, but the 'ar' doesn't stand for Arthur Bryant. It stands for American Royal, the big livestock show.

Re those goats in Tennessee: a relative in South Carolina telle me that there are people who 'rent out' goats to eat kudzu. Apparently nothing else will eat kudzu. I see a great future in converting kudzu to BBQ.

I wonder if they're going public? This could be the next Microsoft.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 12:07 AM

So, is it BarbeCUE or BarbeQUE?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 12:30 AM

Many years ago, CBS newsguy interviewing an old country boy in Georgia:

"There's three things I hate. Kudzu......City Folks......and Kudzu."


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: cptsnapper
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 01:18 AM

Smoked Brisket In Foil - sounds like a great nam for a group or album or the first line of a chorus!


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: eddie1
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 08:08 AM

While completely agreeing that you should hint that your method is an old family secret, I would humbly suggest that you drop the hint that you MIGHT be prepared to part with the secret after a sufficient quantity of alcohol. diamonds or gold - depending on how good the end product is.
Remember I said MIGHT! You MIGHT not!

Meanwhile, if it tastes good, go for it.

Eddie


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 11:51 PM

Well, I looked a little more into foil and Texas and Kansas City, and found some interesting things. Seems that wrapping the brisket in foil is not verboten in Texas - some famous joints do just that: Cooper's in Llano . . . John's Country Store in Egypt, for example (that's Egypt, Texas, in case you didn't know). All of which seems to tip the hand in favor of Kansas City v. Texas (if there really is anything wrong with foil, which has not been firmly established, in my humble opinion). But then I've seen on my television device some K.C. BBQers who . . . ummm, how can I put this delicately? . . . WRAPPED SPARE RIBS IN FOIL AT COMPETITIONS. Now, I am a mere neophyte - I claim no special knowledge on these matters - but I am puzzled that foil is shameful when wrapped around beef brisket yet valorous when wrapped around pork ribs.

??????????????????????!!???!!???!??!???!??!!?!??!?!!??

I humbly await edification from my betters.

In the meantime, I have a brisket to remove from the smoker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: olddude
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 12:26 AM

yes it is cheating, so now you have to send it to me and spaw !!!

yum love it :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: mousethief
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 12:50 AM

Youse people are nuckin futs. No wonder barbecue costs so much more than it's worth.

O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 02:07 AM

If you pay for BBQ then you've missed the point.

Entirely.

G.G.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: GUEST,.leeneia
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 03:21 PM

I don't cook stuff in foil for two reasons.

1. Surely there has to be a nobler use for aluminum.

2. What's the point of firing up the grill if you sequester the meat in foil? You could be cooking it any old way, such as in the oven, which is less work than BBQ.

So why go to the effort?

=========
My favorite team name is "Armed and Hammered."


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: michaelr
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 04:15 PM

Lots of info and discussion at The Smoke Ring. The consensus appears to be to wrap the brisket in foil after it reaches 175 degrees. Some say, however, that it makes the bark mushy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: mousethief
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 06:47 PM

If you pay for BBQ then you've missed the point.

Having the right friends? Apparently so.

O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 11:02 PM

Why?

Poison your family?

No matter the taste or texture of the final product....aluminum is a reactive metal....unlike stainless steel.

Consider, the opening sentence of Jethro Kloss in Back to Eden Chapter XI, "Aluminum poisoning is so prevalent that I feel it is a part of my duty to give my expereince and warn people against the use of aluminum."

Consider, Dr. Chas T. Betts of Toledo, Ohio, "Before I became ill, the question of poisoning by aluminum compounds never interested me."

For myself, I became convinced when looking at the top foil cover of a lassana dish, or baked spaghetti and seeing the holes etched through by the tomato sause.

Watch what happens with cabbage, cranberries, or lemons.

Look at a soda can...stored for year in the basement...that ain't rat piss on the floor.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

If you don't have the skill...get out of the game ... dinner in foil ... is still a foiled dinner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 02:52 AM

Thought-provoking, gargoyle.

I say, save the aluminum to make airplanes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 11:22 PM

Another fact to add to Garg's note: Aluminum has been implicated in osteoporosis so cut down on cooking with aluminum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 11:29 PM

OK, first you had some interesting comments about possible dangers of cooking with aluminum. I'll research that, and come to my own conclusions.

Then this . . .

"If you don't have the skill...get out of the game ... dinner in foil ... is still a foiled dinner."

Snide, and pointless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 02:56 PM

OK, but maybe you have a point. I haven't been able to find anything conclusive about aluminum poisoning and cooking with foil. The "aluminum is deadly" folks mainly seem to come from the alternative medicine crowd (not that there's anything wrong with that), and the skeptics are found more often among the standard, western medicine crowd (not that there's anything wrong with that). I'm sure we could find all find anecdotes about someone's 90+ year old grandmother who cooked with aluminum for decades and remained lucid and physically vigorous till the end, or someone else's poor uncle who went bat-shit crazy after years of cooking beer-can chicken. Meanwhile, we're probably getting cancer sitting in front of our computers.

But maybe there is a point about skills. I've never had to use any 'tricks' for any of my other BBQ feats, why now with brisket? I'm going to try again this weekend, with a mope to get it moist, smoking it low and s l o w l y as possible. If I lose, let me loose. For brisket is a jealous mistress, she requires your undivided time and attention before she yields her tenderness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 09:21 PM

Alternatives to foil.

Baking Parchment Paper
Bannana Leaves (available in "poor fok" markets) world wide.
Corn Husks (wet)
100 percent linen or cotton sheets (think T-shirt or bedding or table napkins) soaked with water (remove last 90 minutes...if you want a glaze)

In years past I once used .... parchment paper ... with wet burlap .... it was on whole deer hind-quarters....(courtesy of the Fish and Game department) and buried with hot rocks...imu style.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Love me tender, Love me sweet, Wrap your lip around my meat....Watch me smile and watch me grin, as the juice rolls down your chin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:46 PM

"with a mope to get it moist,"

That's a new term for me. What's a mope?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 02:41 PM

Sorry, that should have been mop. Just a liquid that's brushed over the meat to keep it moist. It can be as simple as apple juice, or quite complex including seasonings, oils, juices, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 10:33 PM

Okay. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Feb 10 - 01:11 AM

As a further note, years ago I stopped cooking in Alum pots and bought EXPENSIVE stainless steel or black cast iron ones.... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 04 Feb 10 - 02:58 PM

You can find cheap (meaning inexpensive) used cast-iron cookware, as long as you don't mind cooking with someone else's pots and pans.

Once I found an excellent cast-iron skillet on the street, but my wife threw it away.

Dang.

Can you cook a brisket in a smoker with a cast-iron pot?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 04:27 AM

Alright, I did it. I just Q'd a brisket: 5 hours slow-smoking, 6 hours wrapped in parchment paper in a pyrex dish close to heat source, and 3 hours cool down in an unheated stove (wrapped in saran wrap). Best results so far - tender, but holding form when sliced; slightly smokey, nice bark but NOT burnt. Now I can sleep soundly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 04:32 AM

Oh, that was a 9 1/2 pound full brisket. From the 'ethnic' market near my home. Fairly priced at $2.49 a pound. Not that scrawny little 'trimmed' brisket they sell at the supermarket for ridiculous prices. Re - goddamned - diculous, I say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 02:40 PM

Sounds awesome! Did you put a rub on it before cooking? Wet mop during?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smoked Brisket in Foil - Cheating?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 02:57 PM

I used Goose Gander's All-Purpose Rub #123009 with a mustard slather. No mop, but I did use a water pan to keep it moist.


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