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Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance

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Subject: Show Of Hands - bad for folk music
From: taddylad
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:31 AM

I see that Show Of Hands have done a video of themselves on the internet plastering self-publicity over buildings in London about their new record. I thought they were supposed to be a folk-singing group and I think this will do a lot of damage to the image of english folk music which is very highly thought of and does not need this blatent vandalism.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:36 AM

Do you feel used?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:41 AM

SoH doing a Banksie? Must see this. Link, please.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:45 AM

something about the literary style of the opening post makes me suspect that goatfell has acquired yet another Mudcat nom de plume.

Is this in fact you, Tam ?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: mandotim
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:46 AM

This is outrageous! We can't have folk music entering the world of popular culture! It doesn't belong to ordinary people, it belongs to us! What would Ewan have thought? Heaven forbid that someone might try to make a living out of this music; surely anyone who sings this sort of thing should be one of us, with independent means! Next thing you know we'll have oiks with guitars in our folk clubs...er...hang on...
Tim ;)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:48 AM

Yes, a rather suspicious opening post under a rather unlikely name. Ignore.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:48 AM

Whatever...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Kampervan
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 12:26 PM

It's on Youtube just search for


SHOW OF HANDS - AIG 2010

Sorry not good at doing clicky links!!

K/van
    ...but I'm good at clicky links...-Joe O.-


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: TheSnail
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 12:30 PM

Bit confused by the line at about 301 in -

"With the crumpled goat you found"


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 12:35 PM

Nah, it's not Tom Hamilton. It's not his style, and it appears to be a London based poster too. Tom is in Scotland, on the Clyde Estuary.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Captain Farrell
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 12:38 PM

A very slick production please let them make a living


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 01:08 PM

Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed

Thanks, Mr Van.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: TheSnail
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 01:10 PM

the line at about 301

Sorry, that should have been "the line at about 30s".


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 01:20 PM

It's a good song, it's a protest song, quite Dylanesque in a way.
A folk song it isn't, pure rock in style.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 01:36 PM

Remove this thread....please... it serves no purpose!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 02:16 PM

It's serving the purpose of bigging up SoH. Which is, presumably, the point.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: SunrayFC
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 02:32 PM

why don't people on here make it clear who they are.

What's the point otherwise.

Hide behind some stupid name and make controversial comments. It's not adult! Not mature!

And as to SOH- they are excellent!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: jeffp
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 02:40 PM

And who are you?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:05 PM

Shite! Diane put a Show of Who? link in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's TRUE, she DOES have Show of Who? knickers!

I didn't dare believe the rumour, of course, but now....



WOW!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: SunrayFC
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:18 PM

that's so funny!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:43 PM

The thing is.....does Phil have The Borchester Echo underpants?

We need to know.. ;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 06:36 PM

So you are anti-promotion/publicity - publicly promoting Show of hands whose publicity you disdain.

Sounds like a shot in the foot to me!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: taddylad
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 07:59 PM

I havn't used the Internet much before but I was delighted to find so many interesting things about folk music on a Website like this, which I was told about by people as being very relavant to Folk Music which I have been listening to for a long time and I have been to folk clubs quite a lot, but I have been quite suprised by some of the rubbish which this Website has been quoting.
For example Mr Borchester Echo says I am bigging up Show of hands when in fact I think really that they're publicity stunt is bringing folk music into disrapute by causing people to complain about litter and sticking posters up on public property, all because they want to advertise themselves like some pop band.As I said i have been to a lot of folk clubs for a long time and even spoke to (and I got their autographs)from some famous groups like the Yetties but a lot of people, for example some people I work with think, that folk music is quite respectible.
And Mr John Mackenzie I would like to ask how much you know about me as you say I am from London but I am a proud Yorkshireman, from Tadcaster which as you obviously don't know is known as Taddy, so ha ha you don't know that much.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 09:24 PM

Well, I guess I wouldn't call "Arogance, Ignorance, and Greed" a "folk" songs, so I have no purist folkie expectations for it. Nonetheless, it seems to be a good song, and I think the video is well-produced.

Wondering why there's always such controversy about Show of Hands, I played several cuts on Spotify. I found I liked some, and didn't like others. But no, they're not pure folk, so why expect them to be? If Cyril Tawney had acted like Show of Hands, I might have been distressed. If Show of Hands acts like a commercial group, that's OK with me.

Is Taddylad trolling? Maybe, maybe not. The objectionable posts in this thread come from others, who ought to know better.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 09:27 PM

I am a proud Yorkshire man too but I would now appeal to everyone (after seeing his posting above) to just ignore this lame brain that can hardly put a sentance together and not to give him oxygen.

In other words don't fuel his fire because you will just waste your breath and time and it's not worth it.

As Georgiansilver has said.."Remove this thread...please.."


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: TheSnail
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 09:31 PM

Oh! It's "With the crock of gold you found".

I think I preferred the crumpled goat.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Soldier boy
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 09:38 PM

Sorry Joe I wasn't refering to you here. I was refering to 'taddylad' and I don't like to be 'objectionable' but I love Show of Hands and he is talking rubbish and I find his comments offensive.
(Your comments were very diplomatic by the way!)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 10:28 PM

Well, it took forever to load, and I have broadband, but I liked it. Not folk, but it's got a nice upbeat sound. Has anyone actually *seen* the handbills posted all over as in the video? Looks like a set up for the video, to me. Even so...there's nothing wrong with promoting one's work, imo.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Skivee
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 10:59 PM

I don't see what Taddylad is getting all twisty about. It's clearly a music video, made to promote the political POV of the song. Has TL seen general press reports of SOH's rampent bill posting vandalism? I doubt it.
This feels like somebody having us on.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignor
From: treewind
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 03:33 AM

"crumpled goat"
Oi! What's my Bulgarian gaida got to do with all this?
(it even smelled of goat when I first bought it)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: stallion
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:32 AM

as someone who spent a night in the cells for fly posting I can tell you that what they were posting, whilst admittedly had political content, was most certainly arty farty compared with the sedition I was plastering on the walls! taddy btw is Sir whats's name heartland, Sam Smiths brewery owner wot don't allow live music in 'is pubs...........ooo taddy lad are you 'im trying to get yer own back!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:36 AM

bigging up

If the crumpled goats want to self-promote they can, and do. I'd prefer it personally if they pursued their other projects since, as is very well known, the only thing I don't like that much about Beer & Knightley is SoH. They can, and have, done much better, musically.

(Ms) Borchester Echo


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: nickp
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:46 AM

Good for them!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Alex
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 05:06 AM

One of the folk scene's problems is that everyone is so self-serious and, as we see on a daily basis on here especially in this thread, have little sense of humour or irony. Taddylad's original post is clearly a wind-up and if we were in any doubt, his second one surely confirms it, with its amusing lack of grammar. So who's the perpetrator? Who'd want to bring attention to the video? He has form for this sort of thing so surely it's obvious - it must be a very effective piece of self-publicity. So I'll doff my cap to... Mr Steve Knightley.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 05:21 AM

Oh dear, Taddylad, you've really missed the point, haven't you? Perhaps you've spent too long sniffing the heady atmosphere created by the Messrs. Smith or spending too much time in the Angel & White Horse, or the Howden Arms, or the Britannia, or the Falcon or.......


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: OlgaJ
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 06:12 AM

Why is it that some mudcatters seem to think music can't fit into the genre 'folk' if it is successful and people are actually making money out of it? Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me. Social comment has always been at the heart of 'folk' songs and SoH perpetuate this in a modern style, appreciated by a huge following of young (and not so young)people as can be seen at their festival appearances. We can't have it both ways - either we accept new ways of doing folk or we watch the whole tradition disappear.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 06:54 AM

To my mind it's no less vandalism than the bloody awful 'tv screen' Lehman Bros (now Barclays) building in New York...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: melodeonboy
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 08:35 AM

"Why is it that some mudcatters seem to think music can't fit into the genre 'folk' if it is successful and people are actually making money out of it? Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me."

Why is it that the same old line (above) is trotted out every time anyone dares to criticise a "successful" folk artist?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 10:18 AM

I hope they hit the big time so some of our struggling semi pros can maybe get a few gigs on the fallout.;-)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 10:49 AM

I wonder how many songs there are out there already on this theme? Has Tom Paxton written anything along these lines? Leon Rosselson?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 12:13 PM

I had far more respect for Show of Who when they weren't bowing and kowtowing to The Traddies, but standing on stage saying how much they weren't like that..

Er...then it all changed....

Still, at least The Traddies are now getting some good recordings from Phil..and many of their favourite artists have been given opportunities by Show of Who....

Who'd a thunk it, eh?

I haven't bought this CD...but I've heard the title track and it's good.


Erm, are Show of Who booked for Cecil Sharpley House yet?   

Just wonderin'......

I'm sure they'll get there, eventually.......

;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 01:18 PM

But we all thought YOU were organising a C# concert. And a Torbay Festival. And a radio programme. And a dyslexia campaign. And free bath handles for all. Bit behind with the arrangements, then?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 02:17 PM

I hope they hit the big time so some of our struggling semi pros can maybe get a few gigs on the fallout.;-)

Sorry that was me.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Aeola
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:04 PM

Good luck to them!!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:36 PM

I have been having one hell of a job getting youtube videos to load on my PC which is served by a wireless connection. They play for 5 secs then load for 20 and so on. Then I transferred to channel 6 and tried the superb SOH video and bingo - it loaded and played without stopping. It's a damn good song.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: bubblyrat
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:41 AM

I have never liked SOH,and probably never will,so I don't have any of their recordings,and I don't go to their performances,but I would not wish to denigrate them on the internet,if,indeed ,at all----I think that PB is a fine musician,and that SK is a talented songwriter,but I just can't get tuned in to their material ! If they wish to be a bit "over the top" in the publicity department,then good luck to them,I say !


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:01 AM

No, no....I wouldn't be organising a Show of Who show....WhatEVER made you think that?

I am hoping though that you, being a new fan and all, along with Ian Anderson and Joan Crump WILL be. I'm still waiting to read write ups from you all about their gigs...

'Tis most strange..

Still, I expect you're making sure that every word you write is filled with love for your new found heroes.

;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Mary Brennan
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:34 AM

Lizzie, when you write provocative posts like that, people like Ian and Joan won't write about SOH. When they do write about them, you gloat, just like you did when Diane put the link in. Just like you do every time Ian mentions Seth Lakeman.

Gloating isn't nice.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:47 AM

Personal feuds are best slugged out in a car-park somewhere, no weapons, but kicking, gouging and biting permitted.

Public fora are not the right place for personal battles to be pursued. Such puerile antics show all of the participants in a singularly bad light, and detract from the value of discussion, and subject matters in hand.

Many of us are heartily sick and tired of pugnacious and insulting postings by people whom, I strongly suspect, would defecate in their underwear if someone offered them 'outside'.

For God's sake GROW UP, the lot of you, or it'll be bed at six WITH NO SUPPER!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 09:15 AM

Hey, I think it's great that Ian's become a Seth fan! Especially after he tried to hinder his career...and...of course...FAR be it from me to suggest that fRoots use Seth's good looks to sell their magazine...Oh no no no no no.........nooooooooo

And as for 'Mary Brennan'...yeah, right...

Oh come on now, Mary, I'm sure, you be a visitor to the fRoots board an' all, as well as once upon a time to my myspace page, know how all the usual gang said how much they now respected Show of Who, after Steve and Phil said what they did....

Shame they don't respect their music, huh?

I did, but I have to respect both the artist AND the music for the inspirational thoughts to flow, otherwise, they stop dead.

I do find it intriguing though as to WHY, after nearly SIX years of me yattering on about Show of Who, and bringing people into their music, as has been said to me over and again, WHY it took them so long to stand up and tell me they preferred the 'vitriol' to my supportive words.   

I'd hate to think it was to keep in with the Traddies, with the new recordings that are happening, because hell, that would be so hypocritical....but...hey ho...

Six Years is a long time in Journalism, as they do say....

"Haul away, boys....."


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 10:12 AM

Sorry, Lizzie & Co, but I, for one, am finding this all very confusing. I must be missing something - no. no. no...on reflection, I really don't want to know!!!!!!! In this case, ignorance really is bliss.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:35 PM

More baffled than the exhaust on a moped that has just been freshly re baffled by the baffle shop at the local department of baffling.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Noreen
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:58 PM

:0)
Back to the subject- I like the video and the song!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: taddylad
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:23 PM

Well I have been finding out some more about Show of Hands and I now have changed my mind about them a little bit as I have seen a lot of them playing on such Websites as YOU TUBE (which is a brilliant Website)on which they have done some really good Folk songs. So it seems they are quite popular and have a lot of fans,because of the way they put things over, with there singing and one of them is really good on the fiddle.

I still think that vandelism is not good and what they did was "over the top" but there song is about how the banks etc caused so many problems in the country and alot of people are quite upset too about them. Its like the old "protest" songs that Donovan and Bob Dylan used to write about. Mind you not all Folk groups were like that, eg the Spinners,the Yetties etc or Simon and Garfunkle.

I have also seen that they might get an award by the BBC,which I will definatly vote for them, and I hope that some of the people who have written here might too, especially there fans like "Borchester Echo", "aeola" and Noreen.

And I hope that people who don't like them,eg "mandotim", "bubblyrat" and Lizzie Cornish etc etc might check the Internet a bit more to change there minds like I did.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:41 PM

Good on yer Noreen.

I don't think this is their best album though I have almost everything they have ever made including Anglicana bought in Brussels when we stayed with Richard.

It seems a shame that (not them) there is such a "marmite" type polorisation with SoH. I do like A I G and recognise the sentiment behind the words. Poppy? I suppose so but SoH are like that. It's not finger in yer ear folk but it is folk style and folk music must carry through the years and social changes reflecting change. Most things evolve and folk music does and will do. Just look and listen to the way young musicians carry it off.

When asked why they have never played in Scotland, Steve said. "We've never been asked". so there is chance for them to get over the Border yet.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Soldier boy
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 09:40 PM

Sorry taddylad, but I've been wracking my brain about what reminds me about the 'style' in which you communicate and it suddenly came to me in a flash........it's Tom Hanks (great actor!) in the film 'Forrest Gump' - "life is like a box of chocolates" and all that!
You're a dead ringer man - have you been taking lessons - or are you the real Forreat Gump?

I think that you are just taking the piss here and that I have revealed you!.......but why go to all that effort and for what reason?
You are obviouslly not who you say you are so come clean and stop the silly games!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 02:16 AM

fans like "Borchester Echo"

For the avoidance of any doubt (and to save any Crumpled Goats that may be reading this from choking over their cornflakes), my assessment of the work of SoH has been unchanged since their formation 15 or so years ago. The ONLY thing I don't like about Beer & Knightley is SoH. Got that?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 03:27 AM

Teeheee!

I'm not quite a crumpled goat, yet.....but boy, am I chuckling!

Me, the Enemy....and You, the Fan!


Who'd a thunk it, huh? LOL


Hey, Sweetums, are you wearing your Seth Lakeman Bra *with* your Show of Who knickers this morning?    ;0)

Oops, there goes another cornflake!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Mary Brennan
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 05:14 AM

Still gloating. And you wonder why people are nasty to you.

I was rather upset that you deleted me from you My Space page as I enjoyed most of what you said and agreed with you a lot of the time.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 06:00 AM

No, I'm not gloating, Chris...I just think it's very, very funny, that's all. You have to read my posts with humour on this one, trust me, because I truly am spluttering out my cornflakes.

I do think that it's a great shame however, that SoH's new fans AREN'T writing about them...er...at all...other than to say they er...don't like their music...but er...that's what they guys want, because they love the vitriol and not the praise.

So be it, for who am I to upset them?

:0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 06:09 AM

I'll send Miranda down to sort you lot out in a minute! She's got a strong right arm you know......


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignor
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 06:14 AM

As my name has been mentioned - Why do they need me writing acres of fawning adulation about them on messageboards? I'm pretty sure that, when Phil wrote that public message to you, he said that was exactly what he didn't want. In any case, I'm not a fangirl - I'm an event organiser.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 06:57 AM

Yeah, but..er...it took his SIX years to say it....

Now if *only* he'd said it six years back, I'd have not only been saved an awful lot of shite from your folks, but...I could have concentrated far more on Those Gorgeous Oysters!

By the way, the even more Gorgeous Jim Causley played The Oysterband on Sunday! YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! That's the way to do it, Jim!

:0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: mandotim
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 07:02 AM

Taddylad; I'm feeling a bit misunderstood. I think you missed the dripping irony in my original post. I like a lot of what Show of Hands do, I do a couple of their songs now and again, and I particularly like what they do to help promote up and coming acts like Isambarde, who are recording with Phil Beer at the moment. 'Not pulling up the ladder after you' is a worthy trait in my book. SoH have worked bloody hard to get where they are, and that deserves respect, even if their music doesn't suit one's personal taste.
For Lizzie; I'm not a new fan. I first saw them in Leek as a little-known folk duo twenty years ago, having listened to their stuff before that. Judging by your recent, rather hyper posts, I'd say it's probably a good time to review the medication.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignor
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 07:05 AM

Most bands would find having to publicly confront a fan and asking them to desist their obsessive behaviour rather unseemly and embarrassing, which is probably why it took them so long to say anything. But as your behaviour was clearly even more embarrassing, you finally drove them to it. Well done.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 07:16 AM

Who's Chris?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 07:29 AM

Sounds like there's a few folks on this thread who need to get some blood coursing through their veins, because they sure are comin' over as fuddyduddies with their po-faced attitude about Show of Who.

So...I recommend they take a good dose of Those Gorgeous Oysters, at least 5 times a day, with food, and beer, and they'll soon find the blood pumping through their bodies and souls again, for The Oysterband not only make brilliant music, but have the best fans in the world who are intensely loyal and friendly...and to whom the band returns that loyalty....

The Oysterband myspace


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 07:43 AM

And thoroughly likeable chaps as well. When the Oyster Ceilidh Band were booked at our festival 3 members stayed at our house (albeit thay had more hair then - like me!) and we had a very enjoyable time. So much so that when I heard about the first 'Big Session' festival I went without hesitation - Only been twice now but looking forward to going back.

Any other fans of the Oysters going this year?

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Morris-ey
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 08:41 AM

A woman spurned, eh? Wonder how long "Those Gorgeous Oysters" will tolerate the stalking...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: taddylad
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 10:11 AM

Dear Borchester Echo
I'm sorry I called you Mr before, as you are obviously a lady but I still dont understand how one minute you say you like Show Of Hands and then you say you do'nt


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Morris-ey
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 10:18 AM

She did not say she liked SoH, in fact she made it quite clear she does not like SoH.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 10:21 AM

Taddyperson: I am not a Mr, a "lady" nor a SoH "fan". I am a writer who certainly likes the musicians concerned but preferably when they are doing something other than watered down soft rock catering mainly for women of a certain age who like travelling on coaches to the Albert Hall.

Part of what Phil Beer was driven to say to madlizziecornish was:

What I do NOT wish to be portrayed as is a member of some form of geriatric Boy Band. This sort of adulation is utterly embarrassing and I'd really like it to stop now.

That was almost a year ago. I do so hope John Jones won't be driven to have to paraphrase this plea not to be stalked.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 11:07 AM

"I do so hope John Jones won't be driven to have to paraphrase this plea not to be stalked"

Hopefully, he'll just walk away on a rising road.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 11:12 AM

The thing is, Diane..I *never* called them a Boy Band...er..you did. You're the one who ridiculed them, I only ever supported and stuck up for them, in the face of all the vitriol.

As I said, six years is a long time in journalism...and The Lovely Oysters have me on their Myspace page, so I think I'm OK there...as they know I'd never stalk them, never did with Show of Who either, who I've never met, and who've never met me. But that wasn't part of your 'She's a STALKER!' plan, huh?

Anyways ups, long and short of it is that you and I seem to have swopped places in Phil's eyes, and YOU're the one he idolises...

Hey, it wasn't YOU at that gig he mentioned, was it? The one I thought was Madame Intelligenisa? The one poor Phil thought was me, who sent him running to the messageboards in absolute panic?

Aha! Now it's all becoming clear! It was 'La Borchester' who presented herself to him, in her 'I Love Steve & Phil' T Shirt, slobbering romantically over her new heroes...

LOL

:0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 11:15 AM

I am soooo spluttering down here...this is soooo funny!

Any minute now, Madame Pomposity will be along telling me off and saying how dreadful I am.

I wish messageboards could giggle...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 11:23 AM

Yet another point of clarification: I criticised you for fawning over SoH as a "boy band", and this is precisely what Phil Beer objects to as well. He's a serious musician, as are the Oysterband, as they have been for decades. Can't you understand and respect that?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 11:26 AM

I still don't know who Chris is...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 02:35 PM

I'm with you Mr Gnomo....Nope, I don't know who Chris is either...
Chris Patten? Chris de Burgh? It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma, thats for sure


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 02:47 PM

I found it more of a mysery in an enima but then again, I'm uncouth...

:D


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: glueman
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 03:07 PM

Can't bear SoH, they belong in the pit with only the Oyster Band for cushioning. Like listening to a pub drunk's rant set to some quite nicely played music.
In fact I shall go and see them at Holmfirth and watch whether they're as unsympathetic in the flesh as they sound on record.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 04:27 PM

No, that wasn't 'fawning' it was supporting...and Phil was quite happy to have it going on for many a long year, as we Steve...The ONLY time they asked me to stop, Sweetums, was just before 'Witness' came out, as Vaughan, their manager, contacted me on Myspace to politely ask if I'd lay low, so that people could make up their own minds...

That was right after you and I had had a real barney over the first playing of a track from that CD, by Chris from Reading Uni, who knew Steve and who, as I recall, was the inspiration behind ones of the songs Steve wrote...Darn it, can't recall which one now, but it was one of the major ones...Was it 'Roots'???   I think it was...

And that's when Steve wrote 'All Quiet on the Western Front', as he thanked me for keeping quiet..and I told the person who was acting as the intermediary between us that he was not to worry, it would be 'all quiet on the South Western Front' from now on...and he told me that had given him an idea for a song...

So, far from you and your buddies trying as hard as you can to infer that Show of Hands were hiding in cupboards at the mere mention of my name, they weren't. And let's face it, if Steve had really felt the way you all make out, he'd not have wanted to be reminded of any of my words, let alone get a sudden urge to write a song from them...

However, Phil is now recording many of the acts that you hold dear, and the Traddies have become a bit special to him, so when I mentioned that a Show of Hands gig would probably be far more exciting at Cecil Sharpley House, than a Walter Pardon exhibition, or something along those lines, the shite hit the fan, and I've no doubt you all went running to teacher, aghast at 'the evil woman's words' for taking the name of Walter in vain....DESPITE the fact that I'd helped Sam make a Walter page on his Albion Chronicles....but heyho..

Er...it WAS only a joke you know...although I know they're not allowed in the English Folk World. ;0)

Anyway, Sweetums, it's almost time to change into your Show of Who pyjamas and snuggle down on your 'I Love Steve & Phil' pillow...

I'm off to listen to this again....GREAT song!

REAL folk music! :0)

And I tell you what, I bet those Gorgeous Oysters could do a fantastic version of that song!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,suegorgeous nearly home again
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 05:44 PM

This is getting more surreal by the post....


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 06:12 PM

I know...it's fun, isn't it, Sue. The Show of Hands threads were always great fun...and Sweetums and I had a whale of a time. That was nothing compared to life in Longdogs though...their fansite...Now THAT was REALLY fun! We had Girl's Dorms in there, where the boys weren't allowed, and smileys shaped like settees, to hide behind...in fact, there were even Smilies that er...erm....got up to all sorts of surreal things!

Ah, happy days...

Even Ian Anderson used to enjoy the SoH threads.. ;0)

Good times..

Ho hum...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 07:00 PM

OK, and in honour of the Good Times, let's get this thread really rockin', 'cos if you don't mind me saying, Show of Hands new 'fans' within the Traddie world are absolutely bloody useless at supporting them.


So here goes....


Yeah, I watched the video....and I thought it was great!

Hear No Evil, See No Evil and definitely Speak No Evil set about plastering London in AIG posters, whilst following the Wankerbankers into their London watering holes where we see them living their idle lives, throwing back the booze, ordering the rich meals...walking the City streets with their bulging briefcases, on their way home to their opulent lifestyles.

And as they go through the gates of their luxury homes, putting their car in the garage, cars which cost more than 'we' earn in a year, they laugh....Laugh at all of us peasants, who have been practically bankrupted.

We sit out on the streets, homes lost, jobs lost, families lost, hope lost......

Hear No Evil
See No Evil
Speak No Evil


It is as if we have all taken a Silent Pill, one that renders us helpless from coherent, rational thought! We have all been so blind, so deaf, so damned dumb!

Even now, whilst these bastards are STILL paying themselves vast bonuses, putting two fingers up to the very people who have bailed them out, we still refuse to hear the evil, see the evil, speak about the evil!

We are all going to bloody hell on a bloody handcart here and WHAT is happening?????? WHAT are we doing???????????????????

Well, I'll tell you what we're doing!

FUCK ALL!

I have recently spoken to those from local TV and Radio and Newspapers and not one of the bastards has an OUNCE of courage to print the truth!

"We hear what you say, Lizzie, but....we can't let that out on air, because we may get sued."

"We hear what you say, Lizzie, but....we can't put that in the paper because we may get sued."


HELLOOOOOOOO??????

You CANNOT be sued for telling the TRUTH!!


When did Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak Of No Evil take over our lives?

When did Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed BECOME a way of life that is deemed acceptable???????

How do we keep voting in Cutthroats, Crooks and Conmen, time after time??

Someone, somewhere, sometime, has to stand up and SEE the evil, HEAR the evil, SPEAK about the evil....

Show of Hands are trying their damndest to get that message out, and it is up to each and every one of US to ensure they do. It's up to every radio presenter, regardless of his political leanings, his folk leanings, his Lizzie leanings to get off his backside and stop playing songs about larks in the morning and put this song on time after time after time!

And do I think this video is over the top?????

Are you bloody kidding me, taddyladdy????

This video is as excellent as Country Life and Roots and should be spread right across everyone's Facebook page en masse so that it makes into the major papers...

"Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed Revolt Hits Facebook BIGTIME!"

WE are the ONLY ones who can change what is going on around us, not our politicians for they are as crooked as the bankers. But it is the Corporate Bastards who rule this world and it is going to take the whole damn world united to stand up them, such is the Absolute Power they now have.



And THAT is the power of Show of Hands songs! And that is why Mr. Phil Beer shot himself in the foot, because Phil, whether you and Steve like it or not, your music, your songs have always had a bloody powerful effect on my mind, which connects with the subjects in your songs, because they are the very things that mean so damned much to me!

So I take back my promise of never writing about your music again, because this message needs to get out and get out BIGTIME!

And as to the posters? Was the bill sticking OTT? No, of course it bloody wasn't, in fact, they should ensure that those posters find their way onto the walls of every single bank in this country!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignor
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 09:04 PM

from Phil Beer:

"Ok Enough now!!

I pass through these boards once every couple of weeks but simply don't have time to peruse them regularly. I'm too busy gigging or recording and they are my priorities in life. I'm far more concerned with doing it than talking about it. Please forgive me posting this in one thread when it is relevant to several, and indeed to other boards as well. (Please feel free to cut and paste, anyone who chooses to!) The last bit of this piece is completely relevent to the thread.

LC. I don't know who you are, only that you are from my patch and seem to have seen us rather more times than is, perhaps, healthy. Maybe I spoke to you even on the last two local shows . I don't know. I understand that you mean well and that you feel you are championing some sort of cause on our (and indeed others) behalfs. Let me explain a bit about this internet place. Its not a universal fanzine. Its a genre specific place of chat and discussion for a bunch of folks, many of whom have a great deal of knowledge and indeed expertise in their subject. I know many of them as both friends and acquaintances. My band makes music that has one of its (Possibly cloven) hooves in this place and the other three 'Out There' in the rest of the world. Many of the folks here consider themselves as (self appointed) guardians of something rare and precious. I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with this. All I ask is that they maintain visiting hours so that I can get on with building the new wing (Crap metaphor, sorry!) whilst having access to the edifice. (Also a self appointed task) Virtually everyone contributing here decided whether they liked/disliked our music more than 15 years ago. Our task is as always to bring the music to a wider audience and whether or not anyone here likes or dislikes us is not relevant.

What is important now is that I must try and make you understand the difference between things like, say, the Folk Awards, the Mercury Prize and the EFDSS badge. They serve their purposes in order to obtain a degree of status in the world at large. They give us something to say about ourselves in press releases and are sometimes good for the personal ego. Thats all.

When Ian A pushed for the EFDSS badge for Walter Pardon, it was an entirely and utterly different ball game. The EFDSS at that juncture was internally and politically in a very odd place in which song took a very poor back seat to dance ( Hence---DEAFASS the Dance Earnestly And Forget About Song Society) I never bothered with the Sidmouth festival in my younger days because it was 90% dance oriented.

This small but significant internal award to Walter was actually very very important in terms of getting the powers to recognise that here was a person of great stature and importance as a real, living, singing, purveyor of traditional song. None of us can ever be that. At best, if we're very lucky, some of what we do may pass into the song line. It would be good to think so, however, nothing that we do can possibly be compared to what Walter actually WAS (To quote SK).

Please Lizzie. I'm delighted that you like our music. We are absolutely clear about who we are, what we are doing, and where its going. I just turned 56 last week. I still have the will and the energy and the best is yet to come. I can handle any form of abuse, misconception, or downright vitriol. What I do NOT wish to be portrayed as is a member of some form of geriatric Boy Band. This sort of adulation is utterly embarrassing and I'd really like it to stop now.

Sorry to take up everyone elses time. I'm delighted that the EFDSS is in the shape its in now. It bodes well for the future. We are not just passing through, we are taking it with us. Keep the doors open and the pages turning!!!

Phil (Should be in the studio) Beer"


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 09:33 PM

Well taddylad, as a Yorkie, I congratulate you on the reaction you received and I am sure you anticipated.
Mind you, it's this stuff that although funny and as you illustrate, so predictable, has made Mudcat less a part of my day.
Al


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 05:24 AM

Phil Beer made that post in May last year, along with a number of other luminaries fed up to the back teeth of madlizziecornish's interminable, unbelievably misinformed mawkish mumblings. Among them Eliza Carthy who, as EFDSS vice president, thundered at her to keep her hands (and lying tongue) well away. Most heartfelt was this passage:

What I do NOT wish to be portrayed as is a member of some form of geriatric Boy Band. This sort of adulation is utterly embarrassing and I'd really like it to stop now.

Far from "shooting himself in the foot, he's more than likely on the point of putting the bullet through his head right now. I really hope he's not reading this although he does, from time to time, being an incurably masochist. I'd like him to know that his long-awaited box set is much appreciated.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 05:46 AM

"When did Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed BECOME a way of life that is deemed acceptable???????"
About the time you all voted for Mad Maggie Thatcher to douse us in her royal wee?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: scouse
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 09:34 AM

Who the F**k are "Show of Hands"????

As Aye,

Phil.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: glueman
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 09:42 AM

Nah, they still sound like a 1977 lyric stuck on some acoustic strings. A bit we mean it maaan for my tastes but hey.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Smedley
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 11:00 AM

A very astute summary, glueman.

Still enjoying Taddylad's wonderful, parodic posts. (The Yetties indeed....)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 01:44 PM

Now, of course, a decent, honest person would have pointed out that the post from Phil Beer, above, was from months ago, relating to a different thread...

Thank you to Diane,(La Borchester) though, for doing exactly that.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 01:48 PM

I'm not aware that his, or Steve's, feelings have changed.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 02:06 PM

I mentioned that Phil Beer wrote what he did 8 months ago in order to emphasise that in the intervening time you had done nothing whatsoever to comply with his and others wishes that you shut the fuck up. He also said:

Please forgive me posting this in one thread when it is relevant to several, and indeed to other boards as well. (Please feel free to cut and paste, anyone who chooses to!)

The first time I realised that these artists were so dismayed by your antics was when I heard that Steve Knightley was asking nervously at the Folk Awards 5 years ago: "She's not here, is she?

Do set the poor blokes' minds at rest and confirm that you are not going next Monday.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 02:11 PM

Bought the CD in Sevenoaks this afternoon, and excellent it is too. Great Mexican lunch in Zapata - wasn't that a spaghetti western character played by Lee Van Cleef?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 02:28 PM

As I replied to the post above, at the time...I've not seen Show of Hands for well over 2 years now. I have also, as you well know, never met either of them. And why would you think that Steve Knightley would even begin to imagine I was at the Folk Awards, Diane?

Look, just so as you two get this straight...I used to write to someone who was in contact with Steve and Phil all the time, and at no time was there ever any mention of Steve shaking in his shoes, nor of Phil crying in his bedsocks at night over me...Honest! :0)

I was also in contact with Vaughan, their manager, over on myspace, about a few things now and then, and again, Vaughan always wrote to me in a polite, kind manner.

And it's a mystery, ain't it, why Steve would have written his song on Cruel River, which he was inspired to write because of my saying that 'all would be quiet on the South Western Front' from now on'..and he wrote to thank me for that little bit of inspiration, via our mutual friend.

I'm sorry if that incenses you, girls, but...c'est la vie.

Oh, and if you can find anything remotely 'boybandish' in my post from last night about where their song 'Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed' takes me, then please post the slobberings here....because it seems to me that you guys read completely different posts to the ones I put down.

Now stop moaning at ME and get yourselves writing about your new heroes, because we're all gettin' awful fed up of you both posting Phil Beer's letter all the time, in the vain hope that it'll embarrass the hell out of me.

If a song is good, I'll write about it, although I'd prefer to have the utmost respect for those who've written it, but there ya go..I wrote about it, now you girls go off and write about it too, because the world would LOVE to know what you think, rather than your continuous boring 'Lizzie's been rejected!' syndrome....

If you like Steve and Phil so much, respect them so much, then bloody well stop copying and pasting and use your own words to write inspirational words about them.

Thankooooo :0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 03:43 PM

Of course Vaughan was polite when he responded to your e-mails. That's his job. But he told me this summer that he dearly hoped, with Phil's public statement, that they'd finally heard the last from you. I told him not to bank on it.

Steve also e-mailed me last year to apologise for the abuse I was getting from you in their "defense". Which was nice, as we've since become quite friendly. It is very clear that the whole of the Show of Hands team would be very happy if you would simply leave them alone. But if you persist in embarrassing yourself in this manner, I guess there's little to stop you, save a restraining order.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 05:25 PM

Lizzie. I'm eternally grateful that you don't like me anymore.
Best thing thats ever happened to me.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 05:39 PM

It bears repeating. (Sorry lizzie if it's not quite an accurate quote)
"Walking down Sidmouth sea front, one night. Passing the Bedford Hotel... In one room there was Patterson, Jordan, Dipper.....In the other...There were musicians."
Sort of sums it up for me.
Look forward to seeing you, Lizzie at the Radway musos re-union in a few weeks time.
(Bet you don't turn up though)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 08:14 PM

"Of course Vaughan was polite when he responded to your e-mails. That's his job. But he told me this summer that he dearly hoped, with Phil's public statement, that they'd finally heard the last from you. I told him not to bank on it."

Vaughan was very nice to me when I told him he had some BNP blokes on the Show of Hands page a while back now. He did drive me bats though by refusing to play full Show of Hands tracks on their Myspace page, or alter the tracks. It's why I never played a Show of Hands track on my Myspace page ("What?" they all said, in shocked surprise)...because I won't ever play samples of a track. If people want their music heard, then let it BE heard, don't snippet and snappet it. Bad move on his part.


"Steve also e-mailed me last year to apologise for the abuse I was getting from you in their "defense". Which was nice, as we've since become quite friendly."

No surprises there then.. ;0) And it was very gracious of him to do so, after you'd said you'd rather stick pins in your eyes than listen to their music. It's amazing, ain't it, how popular you can become when you start to be the artistist director of Sidmouth Festival...and when you know Dashing Derek too... ;0)

I do hope that you were equally gracious to Steve for your rude and insensitive remarks about his music...and that you've learnt never to do that to any artist again.

"It is very clear that the whole of the Show of Hands team would be very happy if you would simply leave them alone."

Er....I do leave them alone, dinkums. And, for your information, it was me who zapped their pages from mine...but again, that was a strange one, because if they loathed me as much as you state, then why did Phil allow me on his Chudleigh Roots page and Steve on his solo page, let alone Vaughan on the Show of Hands page....and if you ever took the trouble to notice, I never left messages on their pages, nor embarrassed the hell out of them on Myspace in any way..

I did write a very extensive review of their Royal Albert Hall gig, but removed it, despite the lovely comments I had on there from people who were there at the gig, or had missed it and felt they were 'almost there' after reading it and seeing those smashing photos that were taken of the evening...

"But if you persist in embarrassing yourself in this manner, I guess there's little to stop you, save a restraining order."

Eh? Hang on a mo.....I'm not embarrassed, but you're trying your best to do that to me...

Time to bring in 'guest eliza' and 'guest phil' again, I guest...in fact, let's not stop there, let's bring in 'guest steve' and 'guest vaughan' 'guest miranda' and 'guest brad'....

Although, Brad's a strange happening, 'cos I heard it was Brad who made the Sidmouth Gestapo video...and he was the only person in Myspace who ever refused to be a 'friend' on my page...out of over 1,000 people...which is kinda weird..

Anyways oops...I'll leave you to froth at the mouth in here now, whilst ignoring 'guest ralph' totally.

I'm off to bed...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: taddylad
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 08:43 PM

Wow!! this was the first time I have written to the Internet after some friends told me about it and I am amazed that it is so popular. I do'nt really understand some of the things that people have said on this "messageboard" but its great to know that Folk music is "alive and well" since the old days.

I suppose that the Yetties & the Dubliners are quite old now but I can still play there Lps on my record player,although I have got a "Sony" CD player now. Not being wealthy I do'nt buy many CDs per year but I am going to buy some more Folk, having done a lot of "browsing" recently. I will defiantley buy one by Show Of Hands, to add to my other Folk CDs e.g. Riverdance, James Blunt etc. If only I had more money!!!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignor
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 04:46 AM

"Taddylad" - respect to you! You're a comedy genius. Please post more often.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 05:00 AM

You're not saying that Taddy has a "gift" are you? Jeez, not another . . .


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 06:05 AM

Just to digress slightly, this looks like a good place to get answer. What tuning does Steve Knightley use on his Octave Mandolin? I have worked out a lot of their tunes by ear in GDAE, but I suspect he uses GDAD. Anyone know?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 06:18 AM

"Steve Knightley of the English folk-rock band Show of Hands is also well-known for playing it, however his mandocellos are tuned GDAD with the top course often played open."

Taken from the link below, under the heading 'Image in Contemporary Music'...

Mandocello - Wiki


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 06:19 AM

"Steve Knightley of the English folk-rock band Show of Hands is also well-known for playing it, however his mandocellos are tuned GDAD with the top course often played open."

Taken from the link below, under the heading 'Image in Contemporary Music'...

Mandocello - Wiki


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: mandotim
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 07:07 AM

Strictly speaking, Wikipedia is wrong again. (Surprised?) Steve Knightly plays a large bodied instrument with four courses of unison paired strings, tuned an octave below the mandolin, with the top string tuned down to D. (He sometimes plays in GDAE, and occasionally in ADAD). Tuned like this, the instrument is more properly called an octave mandolin. A true mandocello has much heavier strings (a bass string of around 0.070") and is tuned CGDA, an octave below a mandola. To confuse things even further, some people mistakenly refer to an octave mandolin as a mandola, tenor mandola or octave mandola, all of which it isn't. A mandola is slightly larger than a mandolin, and is tuned a fifth below, i.e. CGDA.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 07:55 AM

Aha!! All has become a shaft of light! Thanks for that, I've never come across the word 'mandocello' before.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 08:39 AM

To return to the first post -

I see that Show Of Hands have done a video of themselves on the internet plastering self-publicity over buildings in London about their new record. I thought they were supposed to be a folk-singing group and I think this will do a lot of damage to the image of english folk music which is very highly thought of and does not need this blatent vandalism.

in a word........RUBBISH.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 12:20 PM

I'm being ignored....Result!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 03:20 PM

"this will do a lot of damage to the image of english folk music which is very highly thought of and does not need this blatent vandalism.

in a word........RUBBISH. "

As usual, Boko, you're completely missing the point. The song is slagging off your greedy banker mates - the flyers are being posted where these arrogant bastards can see them. They are the vandals who are destroying our society just so that they can earn obscene bonuses.

Get it now? Or are you talking your usual load of...in a word....BOLLOCKS?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 03:41 PM

"the instrument is more properly called an octave mandolin"

Well no, not really. Like the modern cittern ('invented' by Stephan Sobell), what Steve plays is a hybrid sort of instrument, based on an instrument that Paul Downse..."discovered in a Brighton antique shop...that became the template for the ones I play and that David Oddy continues to build." (Steve Knightley Songbook.)The tuning is immaterial - I tuined my first cittern in the same way, with the fifth tuned to D (I now use GCGDG) - the form of the instrument is very diffecent to an octave mandolin/mandol aor ahjtever youi care to call it. A rose by any other name......


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: taddylad
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 07:39 PM

Well, some people write a lot on this Website and some of it I do'nt know why, e.g. for example Borchester Echo says I have had a gift but I have'nt. Is this like you can get a free parker pen when you buy insurance which I have seen on TV? because if you can get free Cds etc on the Internet,especially Folk I would like to know where. If anyone knows,thankyou.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: mandotim
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 03:28 AM

Hi leveller; actually, the form of the instrument is much the same as an octave mandolin, with a teardrop shaped body and four unison paired courses. The body is slightly bigger, but there are 'big' octave mandolins around (I have one made by Rob Armstrong in the 1980s that is much the same size as the Oddy that SK plays). The true mandocello (as used in the old mandolin orchestras) is bigger still, usually with a carved top and back (the Gibson K series instruments are perhaps the best known.) There are also variants with guitar shaped bodies, with both arched and flat tops, as well as the teardrop shapes we are discussing. The tuning is really the important thing, especially the difference between GDAE or GDAD and the 'true' mandocello tuning of CGDA. The strings are very different gauges, and the sound is completely different, with far more bass from the mandocello.
Tim


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 03:51 AM

Interesting stuff, Mandotim. Yes, I've seen octaves in many shapes and sizes. The main difference between them and SK's mandocello seems to be the width of the neck. My own Hathway octave (now sold) had a fairly narrow neck. Scale length on octaves also seems to be a matter of maker's preference. Citterns are a complete free-for-all as to size, shape and tuning.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 04:54 AM

My luthier friend Ian (who has made several instruments for me, with a parlour guitar to come) has just completed a commission for a baritone mandocello/cittern. This best has 5 double courses of strings tuned in 5ths but with an extra bass course. It has a massive body and a long neck. Capo'ing it on the 7th fret produces a mandolin. Ian brought it to the session last night to give it a breaking in before the final finish - it had a huge sound. I had a quick burst of the "Woodchopper's Reel" on the beast, and it was a fair old stretch for the fingers.

I'll post some pics when he's finished it, before it goes off to the customer.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: mandotim
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 06:58 AM

Sounds fabulous Will, I'd love to see some pictures of that! I assume the un-capoed tuning would be something like FCGDA? You'd need a hell of a string to produce that low F if it's in mandocello tuning. If it's a mandolin on the 7th fret though, does that mean the top four strings are a fifth below a mandolin? (i.e. mandola tuning?) A true mandocello is an octave and a fifth below the mandolin; the same relationship as the cello to the violin.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 08:40 AM

Do you think this short film could have acted as inspiration to Show of Hands?

And I have a friend in Cheshire who pointed this out. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: glueman
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 11:31 AM

Did anyone else think Jim Causely was humouring Steve Knightly on his radio show?

I do hope so.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 12:23 PM

Well, as Phil Neer has produced Jim's CD recently, I'd have thought that Jim and Steve know each other pretty well.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 12:31 PM

There are some that might say that Show of Hands these days are the picture in Mawkin:Causley's attic.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 12:38 PM

Phil Neer? LOL

Beer..Beer!

Ooh, Captain..there's mean!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 01:40 PM

Show of Hands? (Nothing wrong with them. It wasn't their fault after all)
More like, Head In Hands where I'm sitting.
Why do the words.....Sycophantic, Childish, Patronising, and Peurile spring to mind?
Good Grief.
Lizzie...Haven't you've got to save "Albion" ?
Off you go then, there's a good girl. Have fun.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 02:31 PM

Ralphie, don't mention Albion. It will revive memories of Sam.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 03:08 PM

Dave Dave, pick up thy musket.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 03:45 PM

Well, to get back to the song involved....'Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed' is about the WankerBankers, but it's strange how this thread seems to have attracted two who perhaps have lost the title of 'bankers', existing only as their first part of their title.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: nickp
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 04:17 AM

I understand AIG won the BBC Folk Award for best song. And SOH the best duo.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 04:50 AM

"I understand AIG won the BBC Folk Award for best song..."

Excellent. And so it should have done. It's a hugely important song, because at last, someone's talking about the crippling corruption that has been allowed to go on..and is STILL allowed to be going on.

Let's hope that Radio 2 and the BBC in general, now has the guts to finally let songs like these out on their mainstream shows.

It's up to Show of Hands new fans to now try to spread the word on their behalf, which I truly hope they do.

I suggest they start with the BBC messageboards....(note the s there)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Morris-ey
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 05:07 AM

<>

Steve Tislston wrote Pretty Penny 2 years ago...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Morris-ey
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 05:08 AM

Steve Tilston even...the guy's a prophet.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: mattkeen
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 07:10 AM

Chris Wood been touring "Grand Correction" for over a year


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,johnp
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 08:16 AM

who is Lizzie cornish and what is her problem with the world


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Smedley
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 08:35 AM

who is Lizzie cornish and what is her problem with the world



------------------------------------

Now that, I suspect, is going to get a response or two.......


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 09:21 AM

After tentatively reading through this thread it is with quaking hand that I type an opinion for fear of rattling the cage of LC who appears to be slightly unhinged!
In my local session last week a chap did a SoH song (unbeknowst to me at the time as I'm not too keen on Beer/Knightley in that manifestation) and it was a fine song with good sentiment and when pared down to bloke-with-guitar-and-voice rawness appealed far more to my ear than the original which i gave a listen to on the back of liking this chap's version. They almost feel a little over produced on some of the songs (AIG no real exception) and I do feel that it is the broader appeal to a more watered down folky-cum-popular fanbase that SoH have endured. It seems a wee bit of a shame as Phil Beer and Steve Knightley are both fine musicians in their own right let down perhaps by a neutering of their respective talents in the SoH guise.

now wincing in anticipation of replies!!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 09:35 AM

Lizzie,
       There is very little new in our world, not least the folk music world. Woody Guthrie sang about what he saw as social injustices and Pete seeger sang the Les Rice song castigating the financial world with his "The Banks Are Made of Marble" in the 1950`s. Even contributions from such well respected social commentators as those made not one jot of difference. I think the same will result from a few singers over here expressing their dis-satisfaction. Whether we like it or not, without those greedy, arrogant, adventurous, risking, entrepreneurial, chancers we could all still be living in caves and keeping our modesty with loin cloths. Look around you. For everything you see and enjoy is the result of someone somewhere risking their talents in order to achieve a dream and improve their lot.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: melodeonboy
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 09:52 AM

Flashmeister: Your thoughts on SoH are almost identical to mine. The whole being less than the sum of the parts!

Let's wince together!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 10:27 AM

Wincers of the world unite! :-P
Of course like any opinion on a band's/individual's creative output it is all highly subjective though it just seems somewhat of a paradox that two such accomplished musicians have created what is essentially fairly mediocre music when together.
ho-hum!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 10:30 AM

LC ' slightly unhinged 'Flashmeister, the meister of the understatement.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: glueman
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 11:56 AM

I reckon you like declamatory, bombastic songs like AIG or you don't. For my two pennorth it's like being hit repeatedly over the head by - I almost said a pub folk singer.

Whither allusion? Where subtlety and the unexpected cut of a lyric, a Hard Rain or a Srange Fruit? The sentiment is fine, the execution overbearing. I expect SoH know their audience.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: glueman
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 11:58 AM

Srange = Strange in sticky keyboard world.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 01:49 PM

I like the song. What's the problem with that?   It's no big deal...I just happen to hate the wankerbankers and believe that never before has the corruption run so deep, or touched so many, whilst there has been not a sound of dissent from anyone...

Once, we used to take to the streets.

Now, we are just living out on them, dejected, depressed and disgruntled, but with no voice, as those in control of the media will not let voices out, as they themselves have been 'strangled' by the legal system.

And so, we sit, silent, imprisoned in this Land of Democratic Freedom, where most of us seem to have been brainwashed into Hearing No Evil, Seeing No Evil and Speaking of No Evil by those whose bible consists of Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed.


Below is part of the reason why we now live in 'The AGE of AIG'


'VOICE?' by Tony Stringfellow

"I hear no voice
As I turn my ears to the crowd
Just a silent muttering
Sighs of discontentment in a maze of opinions
Pale faces of placid expression
Mouthing words of shallow intention
Eyes lost in a glaze of chat room jargon
Where is your voice?
In a world wide connection
Comes the distraction
Souls lost in a web of virtual backchat
Faces masked by an illusion of user names and passwords
Your words are safe within their cyber disguise
The narrator cannot be traced
He cannot be faced to account for his debate
Where is your voice?
Lennon called for peace
Geldof called for food to end starvation
Bono called for money to banish poverty to extinction
Dylan called to us all
The angry protest singer
Who denied the label
Joan Baez marched in anger
Hand in hand with each rebel
Punks stood up to be counted - in zips
The causes of youth dripping like spit from their lips
They brandished sex pistols at authority
And were obscene with clarity
They all had a voice!
Where is the spunk of youth?
It is twitching ..pads
Over texted on phones
Lost in reverberating drones and monotones
Of abbreviated conversation
With meaningless direction
A wasted labrinth of vocabulary
Where is your voice?
Where is the passion of protest?
The scream of discontent
The eruption of brave intent
That gives you breath to breathe?
Where are the violent shouts of compassion
That vomits from the essence of youthful abstraction?
Where are the flag bearers of your minds?

WHERE IS YOUR VOICE? "

Tony's Myspace


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 02:59 PM

"Once, we used to take to the streets."

Just out of interest, Lizzie, when was the last time you took to the streets, and in what cause?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:07 PM

That poem is absolute twaddle and proof only of how out of touch with younger people and their activism the poet actually is.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:08 PM

Poll Tax, Plymouth City Centre, to get Mrs. Thatcher to change her bloody mind and realise the People were sick to death of her..

I've tried and tried to get it going again, that same 'feeling' around the country, but the bloody media won't let the voices out, as they did back then...That woman, the one who stirred it all up and got millions of us out, was interviewed 'live' by BBC Radio Devon, I heard her, in my kitchen in Horrabridge...and was bowled over by her...and within days that interview had spread throughout the BBC local stations up the Big Boys in London...and POW! we all hit the streets and turned The Iron Lady into The Melted Lady...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:12 PM

That poem is bloody wonderful...and oh so true.

Nowadays, they don't do interviews like that any longer, they send a bloke round, on his own, who does the camera, does the story, does the recording, the whole thing...and he sits there and gets you talking, telling you his own stories, once you get him incensed enough to let down his guard....and then, he tells you that he'll only be able to use the quiet bits, as they're not allowed to put the passionate bits on the TV.

????????????????????

And so, the days of the Beige, Bland and Blind voices arrived...

Bloody Cowards!

ALL it takes is ONE brave media person to step out and decide to tell The Emperor he has no clothes on....and he can do that by letting someone else do the stepping...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: glueman
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:19 PM

Does anyone remember Tash from Jam and Jerusalem?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:47 PM

What an appalling poem! Is that WAV in disguise? Or McGonagall reborn?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:56 PM

The world it is BAD
And it makes me SAD
I saw a banker he was a cad
and he probably plays cricket
whilst my grandmother
struggles with rickets
due to her poor diet
that I at
least deplore
once more.
When will this end?
the worlds starving children
are getting more ill then
can't afford pills and
losing their wills
to live
but if a lawyer
or a banker
or a Thatcherite thanker
lost his will
he would still
ask his friend Will
to write another will
if he will
and yes,
he will. good old Will.
I mean,
Bad old Will,
charging a zill
ion
for his
pillion
i mean
that as in
carrying
as he's
carrying
a carry on
of carrion
the world's woes
on his shoulder
whilst he wees
on the world.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 04:03 PM

Subject: Show Of Hands - bad for folk music
From: taddylad - PM
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:31 AM

I see that Show Of Hands have done a video of themselves on the internet plastering self-publicity over buildings in London about their new record. I thought they were supposed to be a folk-singing group and I think this will do a lot of damage to the image of english folk music which is very highly thought of and does not need this blatent vandalism.
who is interested?,I am not.and blatant is spelled blatant not blatent.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 04:06 PM

I see where you got your inspiration, Guessed:-)

Now, how about one called 'Young Banker' for us traditionalists? I did one a while ago but can't either find or remember it!

DeG


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 09:27 AM

I believe "Show of Hands" were on national tv here in the UK this morning singing "Arrogance, Ignorance.."


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Morris-ey
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 09:42 AM

Lizzie, who needs the media when we have the interweb? Start a Facebook camapign; rouse your zillion friends on myspace, put your virtual money where your virtual mouth is. Don't make excuses for inertia.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 09:59 AM

I `ad one of them scribes from that "Sports News" in my cab the other day. I knew he was a `ack cos `e `ad best bitter spilled all down `is shirt and the lead of `is pencil was missing.
`e said, "Morning Jim, could you take me up to Stamford Bridge, Chelsea`s ground please? I`m gonna do a piece about that "Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed"
I said, " Surely don`t you wanna go and talk with them "Show of `ands" down west or out near Bristol or somewhere? That Mudcat says they`re going on about it"
`e said , "Nah Jim. I`m doing an interview with John Terry!!"

Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 11:45 AM

most definately the meister of understatement methinks!!!
In a strage twist, at my session last night a chap actually sang AIG and it went down pretty well, I do think these songs can work but sometimes the sentiment can sound a little tacky, especially when it's couched in all this pop/folky sound - the poem posted above is pretty much the holy grail of tacky sentiment dressed up to look like protest in my opinion I'm, afraid but it may stir something in someone else where it just makes me cringe a little.
There are plenty of people who are being active to change things that are abhorrent and unfair - I guess they are more busy doing that than writing twaddle on the internet every day.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: oggie
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:15 PM

... and performed live on Radio4 "Midweek" this morning followed by chat with Beer and Knightley.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:22 PM

A link to SoH on BBC Midweek.

Towards the end - starts around 30 minutes in. The conversation is good.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:24 PM

Once again pushed the button too soon.

The conversation is good in parts. Especially when the interviewer stops asking daft questions.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:43 PM

"Start a Facebook camapign; rouse your zillion friends on myspace, put your virtual money where your virtual mouth is. Don't make excuses for inertia."

No. That is not what Show of Hands would want *me* to do. I'm sure they'd like all of *you* to do that for them though, and I wish you the best.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Feb 10 - 03:33 PM

Blimey!

The songsnippetysnappets on their Myspace page have got EVEN SHORTER!

I mean, there must be all of....ooooh..10/20 seconds of Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed on there....likewise all the other tracks from the new CD.

Yes, the entire video's on there, but.....WHAT is the point of having a Myspace page where people can't take your songs over to their page, and spread the word out even further?????????

I've had loads of people discover some really great music from my page..and I've discovered the same from the pages of others...


Methinks it's a touch of Arrogance, Ignorance & Missed Opportunities...but hey, what do I know?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Feb 10 - 11:48 PM

I think the point would be that Myspace downloaded tracks are not intended as as a shared facility for transfer to the MySpace page (or indeed any other type of page) of a third party, but more as a taster of what the overall CD sounds like (as for instance with Sting's snippets of his "Winter " CD on his website before Christmas). Short snippets of each track give you a flavour of what to expect, and an idea of whether you might wish to buy the thing or not. You don't normally need a full track to get some idea of that. The point of loading up a track on a Myspace page for most people is usually to advertise one's wares or sound , not to facilitate the download of those tracks by third parties to their own Myspace page - or at least that is the case with most people that I know. Hardly a case of arrogance or ignorance.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 10:48 AM

The majority of musicians/bands have whole tracks playing, Irene.

The whole point of Myspace, for musicians that is, is that it is a shop window. It is a window which millions of people may well pass by, at some time or another. If the window is not well lit, then people won't see what you are selling.

And then, of course, there are the 'franchise' windows, spread the length and breadth of the entire world, not just your local High Street. In the franchise windows there are opportunities galore for even more millions to pass by, or stumble upon accidentally. These windows ARE very brightly lit and they display the wares in their entirity, rather than keeping them low lit and covered in soft blankets.

What seems so very odd to me is that Show of Hands have ALWAYS encouraged people to share their music, copy their CDs, pass them around, pass the songs around, yet when it comes to their Myspace page, they do the exact opposite.

The tracks did start off full length, when first they went into Myspace, but when Billy Bragg highlighted the dangers of the Myspace contracts, they put the snipettysnappety bits on. Billy went on to change the way Myspace works, thus ensuring the safety of the artist's songs...Show of Hands stayed behind, and didn't put their full tracks back...

The tiny snippets that are on there now give no sense of the music, in fact, they're more than a bit irritating, to be honest, in my opinion..

But, there ya go....

Who am I to understand how Myspace works, huh? I mean, I've only had countless people come to me saying "Thanks for playing that wonderful track of ??????, Lizzie! I bought the CD!"

Still, it's up to Show of Hands *new* fans to point this out to them, not to me...

I've had The Duncan McFarlane Band on my page today playing 'Lord Franklin' (That reminds me...WHY weren't Duncan and his Band amongst the Folk Award Winners, let alone the Nominees???)

AND, of course, when you put someone's music on to play, it shows up on the pages of ALL your 'friends', which is another way of bringing in yet another window for your wares....

I think someone should write to Steve and Phil and point out that there new fans are pretty slow on the uptake about their songs, their music, their myspace page, their missed opportunities, their........etc..etc..etc......

;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 02:35 PM

Show of Hands employ a number of excellent music industry and marketing professionals who know exactly what they are doing in terms of promoting the band. In fact, they seem to have won two folk awards in the very year that you, Lizzie, withdrew your support and stopped going on about them to the point of tedium. Funnily enough, Sidmouth FolkWeek increased its ticket sales by tens of thousands of pounds last year. Again, in the same year that you decided to very vocally boycott it.

Just sayin'.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 02:48 PM

Oh no...I haven't written about Sidmouth for years...

And Show of Hands have been winning awards for YEARS and YEARS, yes...even when I wrote about 'em, kiddo...

(so put that in yer Spiteful Pipe and smoke it)


Nope, it's a gripe that loads of SoH fans have had for ages, that daft snippetysnappet thing...

Just think how many OTHER Awards they could win if they let their music OUT into Myspace!!

And, they wouldn't be just Folk Awards either...


They'll never know unless they do it.....

Tell you what, you can ask Vaughan over on Facebook, as you're now buddies.....(Whoa, no surprises there then!) LOL


I mean WHAT is the point of writing a fabulous song like AIG and then only playing a few seconds of it??????

Strikes me their 'team' is a little upsydowndaisy at the publicity thingy...

But hell, what do I know...?

;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:04 PM

"But hell, what do I know...?"

Indeed.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:07 PM

yawnnnnnnnnnnn.....

been here sooooo many times before, so I'll leave you to that one...

Hey, methinks it's about time you re-posted Phil's message, yet again, as it's been oooooh, at least three posts since the last you did it.


Go listen to Jim Causley's Orgasmic Folk Show, and you'll feel slightly less crotchety...

Possibly...
Maybe...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:10 PM

Actually, I'm going to be on Jim's show in a couple of weeks. Hope you enjoy it. :)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:30 PM

So Lizzie it works like this does it?
I've just spent 6 months working on a (nearly) solo CD. And you want me to just give it away? Lock stock and barrel?
No that you'd want it, but thats by the by.
How do you think that all these musicians that you happen to revere so much actually make a living?
I'll tell you how, by driving thousands of miles a year, every year, playing to sometimes pitiful audiences. And by selling product. (Cds in the old days, but now increasingly by downloads.)
And, you have the temerity to tell all those hardworking musos out there, that they should just give it to you?
Damn Bloody Cheek.
When you've spent several years learning to play or sing, lovingly crafted your little baby, with no income. I suppose you'll just hand it out willy nilly, will you?

Yes, Websites are showcases for artists, but to expect people to just hand over their product, because "I want it" is so stupid it's laughable.

I hopefully, when funds allow, might make extracts of my work out into the world, for people to make their minds up as to whether they like it or not.

If they do, Fine. They can buy it, but, I'm not a charity. It's part of my income.
As a retired bloke on a small pension, It could make all the difference.
So, get off your bloody soapbox. Learn an instrument, Learn to sing, put the thousands of hours necessary of travelling/practicing/ marketing that goes with the job, and I'll look forward to your solo CD in about 2035.
Until then stop pontificating.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:35 PM

Take it up with Steve and Phil, not me, matey.   They're the ones who are happy to let people copy their CDs, encourage it.

I ain't a musician, as I've told you soooooo many times before...

I am the audience..(scary, huh?)

Oh, you're on Jim's show....(no surprises there then!)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:42 PM

Will Jim lose a listener and should we be told?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:08 PM

Lizzie.
No, you're not a musician, or a singer. When you become one of them, (or indeed a festival organiser) Then you can pontificate on any subject you like.
Off you go then.
Look forward to the results. Until then, don't dare tell hardworking musicians how they should run their careers.
Ralph
(Thats a lost sale then.....Am I Bovvered?)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:15 PM

"Oh, you're on Jim's show....(no surprises there then!)"

No indeed...I am the artistic director of a festival in Devon, he does the folk programme on Radio Devon. Makes sense. In fact, he first asked me to be on his show back in the spring of last year, when he'd just been asked to do the pilot. (I include this information to head off the inevitable allegations that, once again, I am engineering my entire career just to upset you.)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:34 PM

Ooh nooo...far be it from me to even dare to......

Strange though, sooooooooooo many er..erm...'coincidences'


Great to read all you new fans are sooo busy writing about Show Of Hands songs in here though... ;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:40 PM

"Strange though, sooooooooooo many er..erm...'coincidences'"

Yes, Lizzie. That's right. It's all about you. In fact, I'm sure when Jim asked me to be on his show months before you'd even discovered it, there was some big conspiracy going on. Just to get at you. And certainly when I said I'd be happy to be on the programme all those months ago, it was nothing to do with the fact that I work on a festival in the area and I wanted to promote it...no, it really was just because I knew that one day, it would probably upset you. And that, truly, is what my whole life is about.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:47 PM

Nooooo, it's not upset me at all. Quite the contrary...as has your new found friendship with Show of Hands, your new life in Sidmouth Folk Week..and er...your new appreciation of Seth Lakeman..



Woops, sorry, I don't think you're quite there with the last one.....yet...

:0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 05:11 PM

I booked Seth Lakeman in 2005 for the first Loughborough festival at the Town Hall.

My "new life in Sidmouth FolkWeek" was certainly originally predicated on my partner's involvement in the festival - which goes back some 30 years. So once again, really nothing whatever to do with you and far pre-dating your awareness of the festival, but no doubt you'll still imagine it's all about you.

My newfound friendship with Show of Hands? Well, that probably was a bit more to do with you - Steve e-mailed me to apologise for the abuse I was getting from you on their behalf. It soon became apparent, not least from Phil's public message (which really was from him, no matter how many quote marks you put round his name), that they found you as unpleasant as I do, and your attentions not a little worrying. I guess you could say we bonded. We certainly had a drink and a laugh on Monday night at the folk awards. But I will not be writing reams of fawning, adoring drivel on websites about them - they don't want or need it, and that's not what I do. I have booked them, though, which I should imagine is rather more useful to them.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 05:14 PM

Whatever you say, sweetness...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 06:13 PM

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 05:14 PM

Whatever you say, sweetness...


I think most people would agree with me when I say "When you are in a hole, stop digging."


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 06:49 PM

Nope, I ain't in a hole, that's the hole point...and it's driving you lot nuts.

I am, however, one of the few folks in here who's actually spoken about the er....song....as in the...er...title.

There are just a few others who've used this thread purely to er...try to dig a hole for me....

The question is, is the sum of the Hole less than the two Wholes put together?

Hmmmm....Arrogance, Ignorance and Holes... a whole new CD is born...

Sure are a few Arrogant Ignoramuses in here mind, who know shite all about Show of Hands songs, to the extent they can't even summon up their own words about 'em...

I shall continue to live in hope though... :0)

..whilst remembering what a good song The Diggers is...



Ho hum...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:08 AM

Lizzie

Please drop the sweetums bit. It just makes you look more foolish.
I would guess that 90% of the UK readers/writers on this forum know exactly who these acts that you bang on about are. Whether they like them or not is really immaterial. But the wealth of knowledge displayed here on music and related topics is sometimes staggering.
So, actually, it's a resource that I, for one find incredibly useful.
What it isn't is a sycophantic fawning fan site.
As Folkidave says, stop digging. If you continue, you'll end up on Australia. Come to think of, if you do, can you do us all a favour and repatriate WAV while you're about it.

No doubt you'll be popping into the Radway or the Anchor in a few weeks time. Don't forget to bring an instrument, or sing us a song.

I'm glad you are a fan. Please just keep it to yourself, will you.
Those here who are fans will agree, those who aren't will never be persuaded by your ranting.

I assume that if Joan ever gave up her post as Sidmouth artistic director, you'd be first in line for the job. Would love to see your CV......"Well, I like Seth and SoH, and thats about it really."
Don't think you'd make the shortlist somehow.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:17 AM

Lizzie.
Having just re-read some of your posts I note that on least two occasions you have ended a posting by declaming...
"Hey,(or Hell) what do I know?"
(Think you might have answered your own question there!)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Morris-ey
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:39 AM

Lizzie does not like SoH anymore - a woman scorned and all that...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:54 AM

As a young folk artist and session organiser who scrapes along doing what i love by, as was posted above, traveling many miles, playing to dismal audiences, spending hours and hours perfecting even something as seemingly trivial as a few seconds of instrumental flaff - i shall not bore you with any more of the minutae - but basically working damn hard and caring about my music I would be gutted if people just lifted it off the web and pinched it without so much as a by your leave.
Yes the audience and people like LC who are not in any way musical themselves are important otherwise we'd all be playing to empty rooms and bedroom walls but you need to cut us musicians some slack for posting snippets. that way the flavour of the music is there and the desire is (hopefully) piqued to explore further into the artist's work and either go and see them or buy their music.

Sadly i feel that LC's disjointed bile spattered posts have much more to do with having a dig at SoH after Phil Beer's post (delivering a hefty dose of unwelcome reality to what seems to be a stalker or something from what i gather)and associated bitterness towards certain other contributors here, that I neither know why nor have the slightest inclination to care about the curious origin of, than any actual constructive opinion or debate.
It is extremely tedious to have to wade through reams and reams of this kind of hysterical drivel in order to extract a rare salient point or two posted by a no doubt equally frustrated fellow contributor.
I apologise for this slight diatribe and tangental rant but genuine posters like myself have no desire to be annoyed by trolls and it ruins the whole forum for everyone else, Ralphie and Ruth must have run over LC's kitten or something equally dreadful for this kind of baiting.

LC you may well have your heart in the right place but you come across as pretty scary on here - if you ever came to my session I fear I would hide in the toilets until the coast was well clear for fear you may like my music!! :-D


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 09:12 AM

Flashmeister.
I know you not...
But if we met, I would shake you by the hand (in an appropriate manly way of course, as befits a comrade in arms!)
You speak wisely.
I'm now intrigued to know more of what you do...
The Lizzie stuff has been going on for years...She will never listen, never learn..Ho Hum.
Are there any snippetysnips of your work lurking on the web somewhere...?
You show me yours...I'll show you mine.
Not putting my E Mail address on here...Come and find me on Facebook.
I like the cut of your jib!
Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 09:15 AM

Facebook
Ralph Jordan.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 09:32 AM

Look, this personal animosity between the various parties has, to my knowledge, been going on for years, both here and on other boards. Like I've said time and again, I personally don't take sides, but can I ask both sides to please (pretty please!) give it a rest now? It's getting very boring for the rest of us, it goes absolutely nowhere and it makes a lot of threads very hard going for anyone else who wants to contribute. Can we concentrate on the issues, not the personalities from now on?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 11:03 AM

Leveller.
Fair point well made.
I visit this site to gather information on all sorts of topics. Instruments. Traditional song/tunes, Tech advice (when my computer crashes etc).
I ask a question....I usually get really good answers. Thanks to all who respond to my requests.
A lot of people I respect post on here.
Any problems so far?
No.
Yes, of course I should ignore the incoherant posters who are not part of my life.
It's really sad when someone posts material that could potentionally damage my career. (Which Lizzie has done)
But, such is life. And when it happens, I will react. She just pushes the right buttons, and she knows it.
Not Big, Not Clever....Just human nature.
So Leveller. I apologise to you. But not, in any way shape or form to Lizzie Cornish.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 11:38 AM

Much appreciated, Ralphie.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 11:55 AM

Amen to that theleveller re. your sentiment following my end of much frayed tether rantlet - it is simply tiresome and sad to see worthwhile thread posts helplessly absorbed like a screaming Moby-tethered Ahab into the tumult of a foaming sea of insults and sniping.
blah.

Ralphie - I shall look you up - no doubt my own fractured and badly recorded offerings wouldn't even be stolen from myspace due to the dire quality of recording but they do indeed exist; though I shall forward them personally rather than hijacking this thread further.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 01:10 PM

"It's really sad when someone posts material that could potentionally damage my career. (Which Lizzie has done)"

Oh, do you mean the thread where I raved about PJD's music in such a way that people were scouring the internet to find copies of your CD, Ralph?   I think it was called 'Patterson Jordan Dipper Gold', the thread that is, on the BBC....Can't be arsed to find it, I'm afraid.

Or do you mean when I put, in error, that 'all the musicians were in one bar and PJD were in the other singing their songs'...or something along those lines, when I was writing my 15,000 words on the first Sidmouth Folk Week (of this century, Ralph, before you get all sarcy)....and on realising what I'd written, I spluttered with laughter, as did we all, including yourself, as I recall, and I apologised profusely.

I have NEVER 'damaged' your career.   

You come on here and say the most outrageous, snidey and spiteful things about me, but I do NOT respond in kind.

Grow up, Ralph. Get over whatever it is that is causing such bitterness inside you and STOP directing it at me.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 01:47 PM

And leveller, it would be good if just occasionally you did take sides...and started to remember what went on on the BBC board...


And as far as Flashmeister is concerned, don't worry, sunshine, I won't ever write about your music.

There is only one band who inspired me in that way, and it seems they have now gone under the radar that Ian Anderson erected, to keep them out. I'm glad Ian's finally seen the light, but I find the way it's been handled, with a sacrificial lamb, highly distateful, but heyho, that's life..and I hope Brad's happy with it.

"My newfound friendship with Show of Hands? Well, that probably was a bit more to do with you - Steve e-mailed me to apologise for the abuse I was getting from you on their behalf. It soon became apparent, not least from Phil's public message (which really was from him, no matter how many quote marks you put round his name), that they found you as unpleasant as I do, and your attentions not a little worrying."

Thanks, but I'd rather hear it direct from Show of Hands if they think I'm unpleasant.

As I pointed out to Phil, who, as I recall from his letter, seemed to be a little worried that he'd met me 'the other night at a gig', I haven't seen them on stage since they did their Royal Albert Hall gig, over 2 years back. I have also never spoken to them, never had anything signed by them, never even bought a CD from them. In short, I have always stayed right away from Steve and Phil, despite numerous Longdogs trying to get me to go and say hello.

I have also never written anything nasty about their music, or about the men themselves, nor have I panted over them, or decorated my house in photos of them. And the ONLY negative thing I've ever said about one of their songs is in this thread...because it's a weak, wobbly song, not up to standard.

This new campaign, you know, the one where now...I'm apparently 'stalking' them, is just....well.....what can I say? I mean what the fuck are you all on about?

I brought people into their music, you'll see it on some of the old threads on here....and I had many people write to me on Myspace about that. That is all I have ever wanted to do, apart from deal with bloody bullies who inhabit this board and the BBC board, who went out of their way to slag Show of Hands off, to try and ruin their career and say deeply personal things about them.

Most people were frightened off by those who ruled the BBC boards..and this one too. I wasn't. From the moment I first ever wrote on a messageboard, anywhere on the internet, I was attacked, purely for liking the music of a band that the traditionalists wanted to annhilate from messageboards. I learned to fight, damned hard...I put up with absolute shite being hurled at me...and I learned to throw it back. It was the most bizarre SIX years of my life...but throughout it all, I kept the light burning for Show of Hands, because I KNEW that people were watching the boards, just as I knew they'd come over to Longdogs and find their music there, which is why the 'Whacko's Corner' thread lasted so long and was so well supported by me....Even Steve and Phil were reading that, so I heard, along with the Radio 2 board at times....

Geez, Joan...you talk to Sally Tams about it, see what she has to say...

People used to tune in BECAISE of Diane and I, and whilst we were both hurling witty comments back and forth, we also both knew that people would be coming to that board and learning stuff about traditional music, as well as Show of Hands too.

Whether you guys liked it or not, I became a master at thinking up threads about them..and it drove you all nuts! Of course, when you all imploded and sat round your cauldrons, you decided the best option was to moan to the lads themselves, stir it all up, make them SEE how I was er...damaging..their career.

I did no such thing.

I brought people TO their music, not the other way around, just as I brought people to Ralph's music.

I know...I KNOW that I can write the backsides of you lot if I want to, because sometimes, some people's music touches me in a way it NEVER touches you...and I only have to put their music on, in my headphones, and picture after picture, film after film, will come out through my fingertips.

It drove you all barmy.

Good!

My brain thinks fucking differently to yours, and there's not a day that goes past when I don't thank God for that, because if this music made me as mean, crotchety, unpleasant, biased, suppressive, bitchy, paranoid and downright buggered up, I'd want to WEEP!!!!

As it is, I hear Jim Causley's show and my kitchen becomes filled with colours! Instantly I see Kate Rusby back at Sidmouth, singing 'Underneath the Stars' that night of the last ever International Festival....I can recall every colour at the Royal Albert Hall, every movement on that stage, the way the audience reacted that night, the crowds, the traffic, the smell in the air that Easter weekend...I can still FEEL the sun on my face......

All you have EVER done is tell me to shut up, to write YOUR way, to think YOUR way, to only write about the music you love.

Well tough shite! I loved the music of Show of Hands...NOT the men, the music, because it was hugely important to me at that time in my life, when my daughter almost gave up on life because of a crappy education system..and I started to open my eyes bigtime!!! Show of Hands made me open them even more...

And if they are now surrounded by crappy people who tell them that they should distance themselves from me bigtime, then all I can tell them is that they are bloody well listening to the wrong people.

IF they have finally given in to you lot, purely because that is the ONLY way they will be accepted in the traddy world, then it shows me what a controlling, crappy world the English folk world is...ruled by bossy buggers who insist that you play by the rules.

I have no rules...

And that letter from Phil ONLY arrived because I made a funny remark about Walter Pardon. The fact that I helped to create a site about Walter was completely overlooked in the insane rage that befell you all.

Yeesh!!!

Does it make you all feel really good that you've managed to kill off the joy of English folk music for me? Is that really what is inside your souls???? Because if it is, and if Show of Hands have really decided to stand beside you all, then I shake my head in bewilderment at two men who once used to stand on stage makiing jokes about the traddie world and all who sailed in her.

Shite, they don't need YOU, they never have. They don't need me either, but to make out that I've damaged their career is total shite.

And ask yourselves this..because it's a question NONE of you have ever answered....WHY, when you all tell me what crap I write do you read EVERY SINGLE WORD and then erupt about it all? Surely you must realise that NO-ONE, apart from yourselves, would ever bother to read a word I write...Right???????

WRONG!

You guys KNOW that people read my words and it keeps you all up nights, because you're so up your own arses with telling people how to behave that you can't BEAR anyone to disobey you, let alone someone who loves the music you hate!

Well, tough bloody shite!

Why don't you all take a leaf from the Americans and Canadians on this site, because they are all so pleasant...but nope, you lot have to have competitions to see who can get the nastiest comment in the most times...

Yeesh!

English Folk Music has been damaged for way too long by those who surround it, who have surrounded me for six years..It will never reach it's full potential under those circumstances.

AND...I'm STILL waiting for you to write about the music of your new 'friends'....So far, this is ALL that has been written about them, from a long time back, on the BBC board...


>>>>Message 41 - posted by joaniecrumpet (U3891679) , Dec 22, 2006

Your wall can't be that effective, Lizzie - I got in. And shagged the chairman.

And I'd rather have pins in me eyes than sit through A SoH gig. Sue me.<<<<<


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 02:04 PM

Flashmeister.
Look forward to hearing your stuff (as you say, better done in another place!)

Leveller.
No offence meant. Glad to hear none taken. respect.

Lizzie.
Outrageous, spiteful and snidey?
I don't think so.
You have admitted that you can't play, can't sing, have never organised anything, and yet you pontificate as to how the media, and indeed the world should obey your every whim.
When you have your own Radio/TV show, Run for government, whatever. Then you will be entitled to change the world.
Most real people realise that as individuals, we do not have that power.
What really annoys me, is that you are shouting at the little people...It's not nice!
Yes, I'd love to change the world...I'd love that everyone liked Soft Machine. But shouting at you won't make it happen.
So get your placard. do a Billy Bragg, go to Speakers Corner, and rant, if you must. Won't change a thing. Just please stop aiming your vitriol at us little people who are trying to have a life, and earn a small crust. WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY!

Leon Rosselsom (Yes, I know you've never heard of him) has written 1000 songs about inhumanity. Has it changed anything...has it Fuck...But, at least he tried. In Public, On Record. with some of the best musicians in the country. Maybe you should Google/Youtube him, and actually open your ears.

Do I bang on about him? No...I don't need to. everyone on this board knows about him...(He came to mind when you mentioned the Diggers...)
The first time I heard that was via Leon.

It's been said before Lizzie.
Will say it again
Glad you like the music. now do the research, and open your mouth before inserting your foot.Otherwise you just look foolish.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 02:21 PM

Leveller - absolutely!

Sorry if I'm being thick or something... but I just CANNOT understand why so many seasoned troupers continue to fuel her fire? WHY respond when you know it's not going to go anywhere, as Leveller observed? (apart from inevitably pushing the whole thread headfirst into a dead end, which is often a great pity).


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 02:28 PM

Lizzie Cornish / Route (or whatever you're calling yourself these days):

Don't you dare presume or try to give the impression that you and I are connected in any way whatsoever. You do not know me and you are so utterly devoid of any scrap of self-awareness that you never could.

During the couple of years (not 6) that you rampaged over the BBC forum spewing sycophantic treacle about "boysies", some of us were attempting to raise the profile of traditional music in the face of non-stop drivel and idiocy dripping from your keyboard. No-one, other than the pretendy, invented personas you manufactured to try and lend credence to your tinpot, damaging "theories" enjoyed the show.

Established musicians and newly interested bystanders alike have been nauseated and indeed scared off by your inane and unpredictable fawning and shouting, You know and care nothing for music theory, history or the practicalities of musical production and instead rant at astonished spectators that the "only" way is through your preposterous, plagiarised webpages.

Go away for a hundred years till after I'm well-departed and see if you can LEARN SOMETHING.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 02:39 PM

Suegorgeous.
You are right of course. Shouldn't go there. But she pushes my buttons, and has offended some very good friends of mine, who aren't in a position to react. So, I apologise for wading in, but I'm only human.
If she would just go away, then, we could maybe talk about music.
Pissing in the wind I know. She'll be back in a minute...Ho Hum.
Mea Maxima Culpa Ralph.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:04 PM

I have NEVER pushed your buttons, you naughty boy! :0)


"Don't you dare presume or try to give the impression that you and I are connected in any way whatsoever. You do not know me and you are so utterly devoid of any scrap of self-awareness that you never could."

Now Sweetums, don't you start telling fibs. You *know* we had a nice chatter over on Myspace, before you er..lost it, that time...and we nattered on about the BBC board.

You and I always worked well together. Heck, it was YOU who brought about the invention of Boysies in the first place, as you were er...more than a little serious about things.   I always did admire you knowledge, but not the knastiness..that was crumby, quite frankly.
But we had a giggle...and we both matched each other for humour. Heck, we wrote the SCRIPT for that board..and now, it trickles on us without us, drip, drip, drip....no pistols at dawn, no swords flailing, and The Moaning Minnies are half bored out of their brains, but...they don't like people who put their head above the parapet, because they belong in this beige world of 'all are equal' when they ain't. We all 'different', that's the whole problem, or rather, the whole sparkle.

Blimey, just think what a dull world it would be if the planet was filled with Moaning Minnies! Moanmoanmoan all day long...and if anyone dared to mention Boysies and Girlies dancing down Sidmouth seafront in a river of colour, all hell breaks loose...Yawwwwwwwn.

We're too long dead, so what's the point in being dead whilst alive? Never did understand that one...

"Do as we tell you" "Do as you're told"

"Fook that.."

This music illuminated my vision and ignited my passion (Quick, nurse, the screens!)....and you knew that. You knew that I loved this music as much as you did....but what you never quite got was that I loved it in a very different way. I didn't love it for the pedantics, for the "Cecil collected this one, on a Friday afternoon in June, in the village of Johnnycumquickly-on-The-Water in 1066BC"

Nope, that never did it for me, I'm afraid...

It was the joy, the sound, the vision, the colours, the stories...

It was the Sidmouth Fiddler brought back to life, connected to the future as much as he was connected to the past..

You and I share the passion....and the humour too.

What rankles some people is that they try to replace you, but they can't...Many a time I've pointed this out to a particular person, who goes out of her way to try to be the new you, just as another did a long time ago, but they just can't get it right...

There is only one Sweetums...and only one Sidmouth Seagull...and yes, I'm smiling as I write this, for all of those who never understood that...

Still, at least they have their dripdripdrip of a BBC folk board now, silenced, controlled and deathly boring, for the most part....

Meanwhile, back at the Mudcat Ranch, all hell breaks loose on a regular basis and everyone goes "Whhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! It's just like the old days!" and the reason Mudcat works, and the BBC doesn't is because Joe and Max allow freedom of speech and thought and chuckles to sparkle all over their board...

Anyway, Dinkums, have you got your Show of Hands knickers on today? I've heard they're of the bloomer variety...circa 1932...very necessary for a Girlie's heart to be warmed on such a cold day as this..

;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:12 PM

"And leveller, it would be good if just occasionally you did take sides...and started to remember what went on on the BBC board..."

Oh I do take sides - mine. I put forward my opinion on whatever subject is being discussed, if I have an opinion, and sometimes I put it quite (very?) vehemently. The thing is, I wasn't around on the beeb board when whatever happened happened - I'd got fed up with the whole thing and stopped posting for a few months.

Usually, I can have a good old ding-dong with most people without it getting personal and I've now learnt to try to keep it that way. So, for instance, Lizzie, you and I can argue like cat and dog but we don't go around making effigies of each other and stick pins in them. Same with others on here.I sort of like it that way - must be getting old!

Anyway, must go and look for some asprin - I've suddenly got a really bad stabbing pain in my head - and my stomach......


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:29 PM

Good grief.
She's really losing it....
Sad really....


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:34 PM

"So, for instance, Lizzie, you and I can argue like cat and dog but we don't go around making effigies of each other and stick pins in them."

We don't?   

Uh Oh..................................

(LOL)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:38 PM

Stand by...The next diatribe will be along any second now.
Who will be in her gunsights next?
I'm so pleased that the majority of posters on here are sensible.
Heads down Peeps!
(Or in the US..."Duck and Cover")
Atomic Cafe reference going on there.....It's OK. Lizzie won't have a clue about that film. Probably a good thing.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:44 PM

Ralphie, with all due respect... ALL of it, could you find the balls and self control to shut up?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:46 PM

Come on then Lizzie....
Give it your best shot.
(Please keep it to 100 words, there's a good thing)
100 words.
Your philosophy and reasoning why anyone should take you seriously.
Reasoned arguement would be nice, but not expected.
(No vitriol allowed.....Minus 10 points)
Off you go.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:54 PM

I've introduced many people to their music.


Nowt else to say, as that says it all.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Surreysinger
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:13 PM

And put a great many more off of it ...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:17 PM

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

that really does say it all. And my Dad's bigger than yours:-P


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:30 PM

Thanks David
The voice of reason indeed...
(Never met your Dad....Mine was quite small So you probably win on that point!)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:42 PM

Mmmmm, listened to AR & G during our return Aer Lingus flight from Malaga last night after 3 days in Nerja. I did change to Johnny Kidd & the Pirates for a while to see me through some bad turbulence. Oddly enough there are similarities between JK and SK's voices!!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:44 PM

Hit submit too soon. I was going to say that I especially enjoy the tracks with drums.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:51 PM

"And put a great many more off of it ..."

You see, there it is again, that same negativie put down, over and over, which seems to always come from the traditional world, eh, Irene.

Show of Hands have the biggest amount of fans on folk circuit, probably...next to The Oysterband...possibly...and that says it all.
As I said before, they don't need me to sell their music, they do that themselves..but I was pleased if *anyone* found their way to their music because of things I'd written.

Tell me though, Irene, does it make you feel good to come out with things like that? I realise that you and Ralphie are good friends, and that your take on folk music is very serious, but not everyone's is, and there's nowt wrong with that. We all love the music for very different reasons, but your reason isn't better than mine, you know.

I'll leave you guys to it, this thread is going nowhere, except down, down, deeper and down, into the same old, same old...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 05:03 PM

http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33725.0;attach=10088

Not the first time that SOH have gone electric!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 05:06 PM

aaarrrghhhhhhh! *groan*


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 05:56 PM

Show of Hands have the biggest amount of fans on folk circuit, probably...next to The Oysterband...possibly...and that says it all.

As we are being told not to upset certain members of this forum I do not like to contradict that obviously verifyable statement but...

It is well known to be Fairport Convention. In a recently compiled survey it was shown that while both Show of Hands and the Oysteband have a fan base of a little over 850,000, Fairport's fans did exceed 1.2 million, slightly more than Steeleye Span.

Now, what you need to ask yourself is did I make that up or not? If it is OK for some people to invent their own facts surely the same rules should apply to all shouldn't they? Is anyone going to contradict either of us? I think it would be better to not let facts get in the way of a good rant myself.

:D


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Surreysinger
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 06:44 PM

>"And put a great many more off of it ..."
>You see, there it is again, that same negativie put down, over and over, which seems to always come from the traditional world, eh, Irene.

Lisa - That was not intended as a negative put down, but more a statement of fact about what effect overkill can have (a point which has been put to you more than once over by many better souls than I over the years). I hadn't intended to post anything further to this thread at all, as those are the sort of comments that you invariably come up with. Before I depart from this thread, which as you so rightly state is retreating to the same old, same old,just a couple of comments

>>your take on folk music is very serious

Rubbish! Please, do not make assumptions about me and what I like musically. My tastes are actually quite broad,both within and outside the folk arena and I am certainly not serious about my music except when I have to be . I'm "serious" in my enjoyment of all types of music, and I've bopped to the best of the acts you have espoused in the last few years, well before you'd heard of them, and others you probably haven't discovered yet. (Oh, and maybe singing for Motorhead fans and going to a Motorhead gig immediately afterwards a couple of years ago is serious ??? I must have a think about that.)

> I realise that you and Ralphie are good friends

This really has no bearing on what I said (see my remark about the comment above). You're obviously aware that we have been working together in the last year (in fact we had never met until three years ago, and had exchanged about two sentences on Mudcat along the lines of "say hello to X for me when you go to his gig" on his part before that).My comment has nothing to do with him (indeed I haven't spoken to him for about three weeks since we spoke about a business related matter).. we are both capable of independent thought and decision at our respective ages, and I would not necessarily agree with everything he says or does, and I'm sure he'd say the same about me.

And I am now out of this conversation.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:05 PM

There may be some who are new to this stuff. There may even be those who have not realised that Lizzie has left this board on a number of occasions before.

Most recently she left Mudcat forever here:

Subject: Is folk music killing itself?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish - PM

.......This is my final thread on Mudcat, after being told that I don't see music in the same way as you 'musicians'...


Now having said that - anyone care to take a guess as to how long it took Lizzie (having left for ever?) to come back an post?

A day? Couple of days? A week? A month? Actually it was 7.75 hours.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:56 AM

(Chant)
Irenes a Folkie
Irenes a Folkie!
Well, I'm pleased to say that I'm not!
I play Concertina, and what's worse, a Duet!
What i don't understand is why Lizzie is trying to preach to the converted? What is the point?
Most people on here have musical experiences the size of elephants!
There is no reason to dissect somebodys songwriting skills (or musical techniques)
All it needs is a simple, "Hey, check out the new recording by xxxxx, available from yyyyy, I think it's really good" or, "So and so has just put a great track up on YouTube here's a link"
Now, if people respect your opinion, they will indeed check it out. Nowt wrong with that. It's called dissemination of information.
With respect Lizzie, banging on and on about some bunch of Boysies (your words) that most of us have known about for years, really does no one any favours.
I'm genuinely pleased that you've embraced this genre of music, but, please stop ramming your enthusiasms down our throats.

So in future.
1 When you find a new (to you) solo artist/band whatever...
2 Alert people to their existence (with appropriate links to websites, etc)
3 Then let us go and find them for ourselves.
4 We all know how to use the internet. we are not stupid people, and I'm sure that people would appreciate such info. Case in point, On another thread someone posted a link to a Will Fly YouTube link, with the comment...."Check this guy out..."
So I did, and it's great.
5 It does not need huge splurges of gushiness from you. It's just off putting.

And I remember John Jones doing floor spots in Whitstable folk club, before Fiddlers Dram....(precursor to The Oysters.)

Finally...Men don't like being called "Boysies" in the same way that women don't like being called "Girlies".
Faux sexual drooling is not attractive for either gender.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:33 AM

Damn ... just when you thought it was safe to stay out...
>(Chant)
>Irenes a Folkie
>Irenes a Folkie!
>Well, I'm pleased to say that I'm not!
>I play Concertina, and what's worse, a Duet!

That's fighting talk in some quarters Ralphie ! You're just as much of a folkie as I am ... ie your tastes are wide and broad ... and I now play concertina with L plates, and duet at that as you know only too well (nothing wrong with that) ... Having now satisfied my urge to retort on that, I'm out again.(Sorry for the thread drift - mind you, it drifted aeons ago).


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 09:38 AM

Lizzie - it seems there is a small smattering of savagery that I detect in your statement :

'And as far as Flashmeister is concerned, don't worry, sunshine, I won't ever write about your music.'

Lizzie you have never, ever seen me play nor heard any of my music, nor attended any of my sessions so you simply cannot make a snap judgement on my music or indeed me - I appear to have survived thus far without you writing about my music and shall go forth for some time to come blithely going about my business without suffering for your lack of writing about my music. Is it because Ralphie expressed a fleeting interest in me that I am now a 'baddie'?
Listen to your own mantra and don't judge me in ignorance please.

A sign of how ridiculous this whole thing has become...
At the session I attended last night this very sentiment came up when i mentioned the madness on this thread to friends who are aware of your omnipresence on here. After a chap did Country Life acoustically (and well) someone piped up and said 'dare you post that in your report of the evening for fear of Lizzie Cornish!'to a smattering of chuckles.
Now that to me is not good if people know you outside of the boards for being reactionary, argumentative and generally quite intimidating on here.
Who knows what you hope to achieve though if anything through your rants and pontificating you have achieved a certain noteriety amongst even us folks in the 'real world' (to be found to the right and left of your computer screen and much worn keyboard)and frankly if you were so passionate about the music you'd be getting out there, getting involved, attending sessions, patronising folk clubs and basically being too busy to spout your endless views on here two, three, four, five times a day and more.

I appreciate throughly that you found something you loved in the music of SoH and that is great and I hope it has led you to more artists you have discovered and a wider appreciation of the folk scene, gawd knows us little folk/acoustic artists appreciate people stopping and listening instead of talking over us and pub crowds heckling for 'play something we know'.

What is blindingly obvious is no-one appreciates the hijacking of threads and the ensuing brouhaha that tediously follows.
I am not attacking you here I am trying to explain that snipey little comments like the one you wrote in regards to me and my music just fuel the fire, sour things further and are utterly unecessary.

Apologies for the long post everyone but I work damn hard on my music and when it is dismissed out of hand like that by someone who hasn't even heard it just to make a swipe at me it gets my back up.

right I'm off to play ukulele - it is impossible to be gloomy on a uke! :-P


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 10:15 AM

I'd rather hear it direct from Show of Hands if they think I'm unpleasant.

You did, on the last occasion when Phil Beer commented on this forum.

You seem to have forgotten what he said.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,ralphie
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 02:46 PM

Hey Flash..
"Fleeting interest?"
I was serious.
I would love to hear what you do.
But don't present it in a syrupy, fawning,sycophantic way. There's a good chap!
A simple way would be..
Hello Ralph. Thanks for the interest, here's what I do. Just go to www (etc) and have a listen/view..
In response I would do just that!
Job Done!
FYI Why not pop over to the OMNVOICE, search for Ralph Jordan, and you can hear what I do!
No comment needed!
Tara Fer Now Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:01 PM

These threads really bring out the worst in people, don't they? Horrible.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,flashmeister
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:07 PM

ha ha ha fawning and syrupy I am not and a chapette to boot!
as this thread is already hijacked to the point of tedium

its Me for the self penned do-dahs and t'other for collaborative stuff - both very much works in constant progress and dismal recording quality too!
there ye go.
done dusted.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:13 PM

I tried the links. For some reason it has put mudcat at the begining of the linkes - Seems to do that every now and again. Copy and edit them and they may be OK next time. I tried to mend 'em but it di dthe same. Try later? Hope that helps.

D


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:25 PM

I'll tray again -

First one

Second one

D.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:26 PM

Tray = posh version of try...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:36 PM

You have to put http:// in front of a link otherwise Mudcat searches no further than its own server.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:43 PM

Ms Flash!
Apologies for gender re-orientation! But "Flashmeister" as a handle doesn't help!
Have bookmarked your stuff. will revisit later. Thanks!
E


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:46 PM

Ms Flash!

Had me fooled as well. But I only thought it. Welcome Ms Flashmeister.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:47 PM

"Lizzie you have never, ever seen me play nor heard any of my music, nor attended any of my sessions so you simply cannot make a snap judgement on my music or indeed me - I appear to have survived thus far without you writing about my music and shall go forth for some time to come blithely going about my business without suffering for your lack of writing about my music."

What I meant was, that after your rude comments I would *never* write about your music, in any way, no matter what it sounded like.



"Is it because Ralphie expressed a fleeting interest in me that I am now a 'baddie'?"

No, it's because you feel you have the right to say whatever you want about me, whilst I have no right of reply. I do. You were rude.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:10 PM

Lisa Route (or whatever your name is today)

Ms Flashmeister was far from being rude, merely accurate. Whenever I have heard SoH (to take an example you surely recognise) play live and acoustic - as opposed to bombastically overproduced - I find it refreshing, although I still prefer their earlier projects. The last time was the very song which is supposed to be the topic done on R4 Midweek with Mr Beer niftily swapping instruments mid-verse. Although Stu Hanna does a magnificently clear and sharp production job on the CD, that live set was the best I've ever heard.

You, on the other hand, have oftimes slagged off performers that you have never bothered to listen to because of some perceived slight you imagine was directed at you. Because it's always about you . . . You were unbelievably rude about one of the best ceilidh trios currently playing on the circuit for the sole reason that you have taken a dislike to the banjo player who spoke to you in similar vein to said Mr Beer (and many another fed up to the back teeth of your ridiculous, non-fact-based, ignorant posturing). That they played on the original Imagined Village line-up had clearly escaped your attention.

I really haven't got the will to continue listing the innumerable depressing examples there are of you talking utter bollocks. The packet of marshmallows I was tempted into buying in the sweetie shop this morning had more substance.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:19 PM

"You were unbelievably rude about one of the best ceilidh trios currently playing on the circuit for the sole reason that you have taken a dislike to the banjo player who spoke to you in similar vein to said Mr Beer (and many another fed up to the back teeth of your ridiculous, non-fact-based, ignorant posturing). That they played on the original Imagined Village line-up had clearly escaped your attention."

I was? I don't know who you're talking about. Pray tell....


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:30 PM

Ah, Colin Cotter of The Gloworms.

No, I wasn't rude to Colin, merely replied to him in the same way he spoke to me...but...Colin smiled at me not too long ago, in Sidmouth, whilst dancing with the Hammersmith Boysies Morris Team, as I recall..I was watching him, from the shop, opposite The Anchor.

You'll have to do better than that, Sweetums, in your spin-doctoring... ;0)

Colin's a good bloke, he just loathed Show of Hands..and he was the first person to ever talk to me on a messageboard...on the BBC, when he told me that Show of Hands were only liked by 'women of a certain age'...You told him off for being sexist and ageist, as I recall...and I sat there, puzzled, not knowing what was about to happen....


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:37 PM

"I appreciate throughly that you found something you loved in the music of SoH and that is great and I hope it has led you to more artists you have discovered and a wider appreciation of the folk scene, gawd knows us little folk/acoustic artists appreciate people stopping and listening instead of talking over us and pub crowds heckling for 'play something we know'."

I've written about more artists than you've had hot dinners, so please do not patronize me with your attitude above. Thanks.

"What is blindingly obvious is no-one appreciates the hijacking of threads and the ensuing brouhaha that tediously follows."

Yeah, right. Tell that to the ones who follow me around...and if you noticed I have repeatedly asked them to write about the music of Show of Hands, but strangely, they all refuse to do it, choosing instead to go on and on and on about me. I'm one of the few people who have actually written about the song in question in here....HELLOEEE????

"I am not attacking you here I am trying to explain that snipey little comments like the one you wrote in regards to me and my music just fuel the fire, sour things further and are utterly unecessary."

You said that you'd hate it if someone wrote about your music in such a way. Well, I told you I never would. That wasn't snipey, just factual.   And if you go back and READ what I put about Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed, you'll see that FAR from it being filled with mushiness, it's all political and about the shitty state of the Western world in general, with the way the honesty and integrity has collapsed...pertaining to..er...the...er...song!!

so back off from drivelling on about twaddle, and read what I've said..it might help.

And if any of you have trouble reading more than 10 words, then just don't read my posts...It's that easy, honest.

And now, BACK to Show of Hands, again..and again..and again...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 05:00 PM

It was but a week or so ago that MLC dissed the Gloworms for not making her self-styled category of "top stars". She is also doubtless unaware that one of Laurel Swift's other bands, Gadarene, is going to Austin, Texas, next month along with Jackie Oates, Jim Moray, Olivia Chaney, The Unthanks and Trembling Bells in an English music showcase entitled Looking For A New England. Not a peep from madlizzieseagull about that and why not? Because real, innovative English music ain't her bag. What she wants is "boysies and dumbed-down MOR crap".

Oh, and Colin Cotter is completely right about the type of audience SoH appeal to. Yes, it is sexist and ageist to describe it thus, but it is nevertheless true.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 05:08 PM

I've written about more artists than you've had hot dinners,

As for you writing about artists why not ask for a job as a reviewer for some of the folk magazines?

It gets you a record for nothing from some of them and gets your opinion of the artist out there often to a wider audience than you would get here. You can rave about them as much as you like and if you don't like them you can say so. People will come up to you and say thank you for that nice review.

So there you are Lizzie a really helpful suggestion from me. Look up a few folk magazines and ask the editors of you can write reviews of records for them. Trust me on this Lizzie most of them could use people who want to write about the music. So you are pushing at an open door.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 05:52 PM

"It was but a week or so ago that MLC dissed the Gloworms for not making her self-styled category of "top stars"."

Could you put my words on here please, Sweetums, as I'd be interested to see them, bearing in mind that I've never written any such thing.


Dave, FYI, I was asked if I'd like to contribute to an online magazine. I declined, mainly as I didn't want the person's site to suffer what Show of Hands have had to suffer, or any other artist that I like, and that is the ridiculing which you and your mates choose to put upon anyone whom I either talk about, or who is related to me in any way, even in an on-line magazine.

And if you recall, the fiasco AGAINST Show of Hands actually made it into a folk magazine, where the editor said how disgusted he was at the derogatory things that were being permitted to be said about them, and Martyn Joseph, on the BBC board. Ian Anderson and fRoots were also taken to task for being a part of that fiasco.

As you know about folk magazines, I'm sure you'd know about that article Dave.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:00 PM

so back off from drivelling on about twaddle, and read what I've said..it might help.

That's the problem. I have read it and it is twaddle to me as well as the majority of others. I know you do not follow the 'rules' of English but surely you must be aware that 99% of people on this forum do follow standard grammar and reasoning and cannot fully understand YOUR rules. Folkiedave is wrong in saying that you should approach some music magazines. Not just now anyway. You need to realise that people will only see twaddle as long as you keep saying things the way you do.

It's fine to pick your own rules. Just don't expect everyone else to agree to play by them. Remember your own statement - Not everyone learns or thinks in the same way. You are in a small minority, Lizzie, and while everyone is happy for you to be there yuou cannot force anyone to join you in the same way that they cannot force you. There is not one rule for Lizzie and one for the rest of the world. If you cannot understand how the rest of the populace think or even abide by a common language then why should we be any different to you? Just think about it please.

DeG


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:36 PM

Dave, FYI, I was asked if I'd like to contribute to an online magazine. I declined,

Butr Lizzie I remember you were associated with some on-line stuff. You and Sam wrote it up and it was all copyrighted at the bottom of each page Lizzie and Sam(or Sam and Lizzie).

Wasn't there a thread about it - whereby people pointed out you had filched pages wholesale which were already copyright to other people and you had made them copyright to yourself? Are you saying you didn't write it? And it was copyright to other people all the time?

Wow!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:48 PM

Nope, sorry to disappoint you, yet again, but I never wrote one word of those sites, or designed them. Sam did it all. I've told you that before, but you conveniently forget it, in order to try to make me look a prat.

I did the Myspace pages.

You remember Sam's site, of course, because you leacherously came over to me in PM and told me what a lovely photo of me you thought he'd used...asking if it was in a hotel...I stared at your words, slightly puzzled, told you it was the Railway Museum in York, where I went with my children once, (not with Sam) and rebuffed your advances.

Forget what someone said earlier in this thread, about me being miffed about SoH because I can assure them that 'hell hath no fury like a *man* scorned'...as can be seen from certain posters obsessive stalking of me around Mudcat, ever since that time.




And now, back to Show of Hands and their song.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:49 PM

This is getting on a par with 'Eastenders' isn't it? ;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:50 PM

drivelling on about twaddle

. . . is the sum total of what MLC does (c.f. the guaranteed plagiarised Albion Farts). And now she requests that I wade through acres of her bilge about the "gift" of learning disabilities and associated dangerous twaddle to identify where she slagged off a band to which she has never even listened. If she can't keep an archive of the tripe she's churned out already, how can she expect a publication to hire her to write professionally? (Whisper to Dave (eG): maybe (f)Dave was being just a teensy-weensy bit metallic?)

And for fuck's sake, can she stop referring to contributors as "dinkums" and "sweetums". Is this some sort of Lord Of The Rings affectation? Her and Tolkien alike just make themselves look yet more bonkers.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:53 PM

I never wrote one word of those sites

We know. They were cut-and-pastes of copyrighted material.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:02 PM

So where ARE all these words I've written about this band? Come on, Sweetums, you can't just make these allegations without proof? After all, you know how hot your pals are, about proof.

Dave knows where all my words live, he has them in different categories in his in-tray.. ;0) He'll be able to point you in their direction.

Where have I 'slagged off a band I've never listened to?'...and apparently, I did it only last week...even EASIER for you to find....

Unless...of course...you is telling porkies?

No! Surely not!!!

The English Traddies, telling Porkies????????

Who'd a thought it, eh?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:09 PM

"Oh, and Colin Cotter is completely right about the type of audience SoH appeal to. Yes, it is sexist and ageist to describe it thus, but it is nevertheless true."


Cripes! You'd better hide from Joanie then, for she's become their biggest fan.   

Meanwhile, back at the folk ranch, I've shed pounds and years because Those Gorgeous Oysters have come riding over the horizon.

The Oysterband live at The Union Chapel - Youtube

Brilliant, eh? That's such a good video. :0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:18 PM

Hmmmm...

"The fact that I helped to create a site about Walter [Pardon] was completely overlooked"

But then...

"Nope, sorry to disappoint you, yet again, but I never wrote one word of those sites, or designed them. Sam did it all."


Make up your mind. Either you're admitting you were complicit in his plagiarism or it was nothing to do with you. You can't have it both ways.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:25 PM

Reading this latest Lizzie-and-the-folks-who-love-to-hate-her thread, I've come to the conclusion that you're ALL assholes. Do you really have nothing better to do than to pollute this forum with your bullshit?

Get a life, idiots.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:29 PM

As I said, I never wrote a word on there. There's a helluva lot of other work that goes into making sites you know....

You know, Sam's 'Albion Chronicles' was out there YEARS before I ever found them. I stumbled across them long before I ever came to know Sam, via the internet. That's what he does, lays down thousands of paths for people to wander down, if they choose to. Many of the things he has on his sites (and there are thousands of them) he's given credit to the writers, the photographers.....and at no time, as far as I'm aware, has he ever put his own name to the words of others.

Sam merely gathers together facts and photos into one place...and he doesn't just have sites on Folk Music, but on almost any subject you would care to imagine. They are merely one man's collection of memories, of things that are dear to him, that mean something special.

But again, because he came to be associated with me, so you lot decided to pour the scorn down upon him and the sites he makes, never wishing to see that he's probably brought many people into folk music in his time.

Leave him alone and go pick on your own sort.

Sam always had a saying which was 'Those who can, do..and those who can't, complain'.   It never bothered him what you lot said, because he wasn't interested in anything you came out with. He did and still does what interests him and I've read many a time how people have said they like his sites.

That's fine by me.

I like the idea of people being brought into music, traditions, history, musicians, poetry....Obviously, you guys don't because you want this world to be 'yours'...It ain't. Sam does his bit to help spread the word, nothing more.

You gotta problem with him, then email him via one of his many sites, that's what his email contact is for.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:30 PM

You remember Sam's site, of course, because you leacherously came over to me in PM and told me what a lovely photo of me you thought he'd used...asking if it was in a hotel...I stared at your words, slightly puzzled, told you it was the Railway Museum in York, where I went with my children once, (not with Sam) and rebuffed your advances.

It was a wind-up Lizzie. It was when I realised you were too stupid to notice that I realised what a prat you were.

Back to Sam. This is what you wrote.

My path is with Sam from now on. Our journey is just beginning.

For many of you, your journey, it seems to me, has stopped. It stopped when you let the coldness of hatred, anger and bitterness come into your hearts, it stopped when you sought to destroy rather than to encourage...it stopped...inside so many of you.

I hope you find your way out of it all....to a very different world.

So yes Dave...this time I WILL go. I have no wish to be amongst people such as yourself, Joan Crump, Diane Easby or Ralph Jordan on this site, or any other 'folk' site anymore. I very much hope that you enjoy YOUR music, that you enjoy YOUR club and that you enjoy YOUR world.


And frankly Lizzie you have been posting bits of it ever since.

I am really glad you found Sam. And that you fell in love with each other through folk music. Many others have done the same.

Tell us the end of the tale. Did you ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after? Canada was it? Birmingham?

Regular readers will notice that once again Lizzie permanently left Mudcat for ever.

It was about three years ago.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:36 PM

"But Lizzie I remember you were associated with some on-line stuff. You and Sam wrote it up and it was all copyrighted at the bottom of each page Lizzie and Sam(or Sam and Lizzie).

Wasn't there a thread about it - whereby people pointed out you had filched pages wholesale which were already copyright to other people and you had made them copyright to yourself? Are you saying you didn't write it? And it was copyright to other people all the time? "

New readers start here.......

Ah yes I remember The Albion Chronicles

And 'every time you click on a new link, you find loads more..' or was that every hit generates advertising revenue? and wasn't that something like 57 separate pages?.

I also seem to remember Lizzie saying
"I'd think that possibly, WHOEVER RUNS THE SITE, holds Evelyn Glennie in very high regard "
when "GUEST,banned from the BBC" also posted a link to the saccharine "Sam and Lizzie site" ( one reaction to which I seem to remember was "anyone got a bucket?) - such a touching display of ignorance about the owner of the site Lizzie when you were so publicly and romantically linked with him!

I gave a link at the time to a direct copy of a Guardian article about Nick Drake on the site, others pointed out that "All the stuff linked on this disjointed and badly laid out site are available elsewhere in a more intelligible format:" and questioned if .
"permission has been obtained from the owners of the linked websites?" commenting that it all seemed to be "shameless self indulgence and self promotion".

- no change there then!

Some interesting 'historical' reading when guests like 'Pest Of A Guest" "Banned from the BBC" etc were …….often……..


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:39 PM

One of the crosses that SoH has to bear is that section of their fanbase that sits primly in coaches as per a Women's Institute outing and files into the Albert Hall. But as I never fail to give them credit for, they have had rather more worthy projects and doubtless will do again.

As for the Oysterband, I think most contributors were at the Union Chapel or other gigs of last year's tour, so the posting of a vid (and still less referring to them in such derogatory terms) is really quite unnecessary. Shame you didn't see them (or even have heard of them) when they were Fiddlers' Dram. Now that might have coincided more with your taste.

Banging on about having seen the Smiffs once does not equate at all with hearing the Gloworms' music (especially as it was probably Ian Dedic playing). As for exactly when you dissed their work in much the same fashion as you did that of Ms Flash without a listen, see my post of 0650 relating to my disinclination to trawl through the cesspit of scribblings on any and every subject about which you know sod all.

Those who can, do, and those who don't, complain

The quotation is actually "teach", not "complain". But we all know what you think of the teaching profession, don't we?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:39 PM

Nice try, Dave. But your obsessiveness only started after you'd been rebuffed.

Blimey, you've kept words that I wrote near on 4 years back. Wow!
(bloody worried smiley)

For those who have never seen Sam's sites....here's a link to just one of them:

The Albion Chronicles


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:59 PM

I used to think the English were inordinately polite, but some of these Folk Singing arguments have changed my opinion. Apparently there's nothing that sets the saxon blood to boiling like a good whoring-out-the-trad argument. Twice as stimulating as a cricket match, I say.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:33 PM

No, I wasn't using that quote..that was the whole point..

Come on, Diane, you've been caught out, 'cos I never wrote any such thing. Of course, it HAS given you an opportunity to plug your mates, The Gloworms though. ;0)

If you were at The Union Chapel, or other gigs, then why, instead of whingeing on at me all the time, don't you and your mates write about what a great concert that was?

Maybe it's jealousy?

Maybe it's shyness?

Maybe it's fear of being ridiculed?

Whatever it is, it's a darn shame, as you'd open up The Oysterband to even more people....and I'm amazed that none of you took the trouble to post those videos, because they're great! There are way too many naff amateur videos of the lads out there on Youtube, taken on mobile phones etc..and the sound quality is diabolical, so to have some really decent videos is wonderful.

Spread the word! :0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:38 PM

"Nope, sorry to disappoint you, yet again, but I never wrote one word of those sites, or designed them. Sam did it all."

Okaaaay...

"As I said, I never wrote a word on there. There's a helluva lot of other work that goes into making sites you know...."

Right. But you didn't do the design either, according to your first post. So you want to take credit for them when it suits you, and deny all association when it suits you.

Welcome to Lizzieworld.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:47 PM

Michael - nope, it's no use! they're all enjoying themselves too much to stop now! :(

"One of the crosses that SoH has to bear is that section of their fanbase that sits primly in coaches as per a Women's Institute outing and files into the Albert Hall." Has SoH actually said that? I find that a bit insulting. What's wrong with those women (or whoever) being fans, if they love the music (and contribute to SoH's income)?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:54 PM

You know something, Joan, it ain't any of your business.

Now, if you'd like to write about Show of Hands music, then please, do. If you want to continue the usual obsessive crap, then go write it on your Facebook page.

Oh, and somewhere on Sam's sites there are some wonderful photos of a very young Albion Band. Were they stolen, pinched or filched from the net? Nope, they were SENT to Sam by the owner, who was gobsmacked at the amount of work and dedication he'd put into his sites and he wanted Sam to have his full permission to use those photos.   How do I know? Because I helped Sam put them on there, and I corresponded with the man concerned...

As to where the actual site is, I've no idea, because I could never get Sam to make a proper Index to his sites. He preferred for people to just stumble across them. I wanted them to be far easier to find, but heyho, they're his sites, and he does them the way he wants.

I have nothing but respect for the amount of hours he's put in to those pages, because I know how long they take to make. It is a life's work, and that work won't end until Sam is too old to sit at a computer. The pages will be there long after he has died, and that is what he wanted to do, to leave behind knowledge for people to discover.

Be as spiteful as you so choose. It only makes you look incredibly small in my eyes.

Thank you


And here is another...

Ashley Hutchings ' Sway With Me'


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:56 PM

No, Sue..Show of Hands haven't said that....it was Diane, stirring it as ever...

She's a bit miffed 'cos I told her what a poppet she was, a few posts back, so she's out to prove otherwise. ;0)

We should all be in bed!

(er...not together!)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 09:05 PM

The Lark Rise Band

Ashley Hutchings



And just so's you know...The Talking Elephant site put links in to some of Sam's sites..but they checked with Ashley first, to see if he agreed to them doing that. He did.

So if Sam's sites are good enough for Ashley Hutchings, they're good enough for a helluva lot of other people, I'd imagine. So again, you can all stick that in your Spiteful Pipes...and....

The trashy people in here do English folk music such a huge disservice, because their spite and vitriol poisons the beauty of the music. It has done for way too long.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 09:14 PM

"You know something, Joan, it ain't any of your business."

Then don't publish it on public internet forums.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 07:38 AM

I know it was a bit silvery, Dianne. I wanted to make sure that certain parties did not take it seriously though;-)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 07:55 AM

...and I am really glad that Lizzie keeps posting links to these bands we have never heard of. She is doing an excelent job of promoting people who would otherwise still be in obscurity. I have just discovered a little known outfit called Take That and think they are fablididlidocious. But as they are not being promoted I suspect they will soon sink into obscurity. When will all you fuddyduddy folky types get some life into your soul and start tapping your feet to this kind of music instead of the fucking shitty crap that you listen to?

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:21 AM

David - thank you for fixing the links - I am nobbut a neo-luddite when it comes to these things!!

*sigh* Lizzie - I have not been rude - my comment about hiding if you came to my session was followed by a great big smiley indicating the tongue in cheek manner of the statement. You appear to have misread my whole tone and gone into uber victim mentality mode. And as for patronising you you latterly posted this 'I like the idea of people being brought into music, traditions, history, musicians, poetry....Obviously, you guys don't because you want this world to be 'yours'...It ain't.'
I was accused by you of patronising you when I echoed this very sentiment regarding your interest in SoH bringing you to folk and wider artists - it in no way said that the folk world was some closeted, arcane establishment and that i was *glad* you found enjoyment in it - but apparently me welcoming you and your interest was me patronising you!?! so if we welcome you it's patronising and if we disagree we're funny-handshake folkie fascists? logic, anyone?
Again, I am glad you like folk, I don't care if you don't like me or indeed my music but i bear you personally no ill will, indeed if ever you did grace one of my sessions I would welcome you as much as any other person because people getting off their arses and supporting the scene to me is all good be it listener, musician or organiser - if you think 'the people who follow (you) around' are baiting you then just don't bloody well post reams and reams of incomprehensible and frankly quite aggressive replies. rise above it, stay on topic and try not to alienate posters like me who started off thinking you were a wee bit eccentric and now after reading your diatribes and spite directed my way (yes i can read more than 10 words) am of the impression you are an utter loon.

and calling people 'sweetums' is beyond patronising - we are all big girls and boys here and it just fucks people off.

....insert entry in black book of hate - F for Flashmeister (Ms.)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:28 AM

The href="http://www.talkingelephant.co.uk/homepage/homepage.php">Talking Elephant site
is useful for searching for a wide range of CDs - my favourite video link there at the moment is Chris Leslie and the wonderful (oops I'm about to come over all Lizzieish - big silly grin ) Ric Saunders performing My Love is in America

Although I didn't notice any of the links to the Albion Chronicles previously discussed here mentioned it was nevertheless good to see the Folk Against Fascism logo featured so prominently at the top of their homepage


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Mad Spaniel
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:35 AM

Can't anyone stop Lizzie posting she is just embarassing herself and this forum.
I thought this was all about folk and acoustic music not someones battered ego and mental problems.
I know that by posting i am probably perpetuating the thread?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:40 AM

Plugging the Gloworms? Nah, I was drawing attention to next month's US showcases from Laurel Swift & Gadarene (and Jackie Oates, Jim Moray, Olivia Chaney, Trembling Bells etc under the banner of A Place Called England. And reminding people of your diatribe against them - a band you've never even seen - à propos of absolutely nothing (unless you're of the turn of mind that associates The Imagined Village with dyslexia, home tuition or bath handles).

Whatever is the point of drawing attention to a series of Oysterband concerts several months ago? (Though I seem to recall that several people did remark on them in this forum AT THE TIME. For the umpteenth time, everyone here knows all about SoH and the Oysters - and has done for decades.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:43 AM

I have been calling Diane 'Sweetums' for 6 years now, just as she calls me 'The Sidmouth Seagull' or 'MadLizzieCornish'....You have to have 'been there' to understand. I will continue to do so, as will she.

Thank you, but I do not your permission to like folk music. I have been around it for years, written about it for years..and my ex-husband was one of the directors of the new Sidmouth Folk Week, back in 2005. One amongst many, who stepped forward to help out. I wrote 15,000 words about Sidmouth that year, just something that 'happened' when I was walking around the town, seeing all the beauty..and so I transferred it to the BBC site, where a lot of people enjoyed reading it...It was fun...but it was also hard work, as I dashed around all over....

6 years later, I couldn't give a toss about Sidmouth Folk Week...because of the witch hunt that the people you see on here launched against me, which ended in my freedom of speech being taken away from me on the BBC, despite those people breaking every single House Rule on the BBC board.

As far as your music goes, I was not being rude, I was merely responding to your concern about me ever writing about your music. I won't be. That's not dissing your music in any way. I've never even heard it. I just won't ever write about it, so you can rest easy. It was said to reassure you.

As far as Boysies and Girlies go, I'll keep them too, if you don't mind, because they help to counter balance the seriously serious crap that English Folk Music is surrounded by, so lightheartedness goes a long way to bring in the sparkle again, as does a rollicking great sense of humour.

If I choose to swoon over those Shropshire Bedlam Boysies, then swoon I shall...and believe you me, there were more than a few maidens on Sidmouth Sea Front that summer who could barely stand up!

John Kirkpatrick sought to bring in a little sunshine to the serious side of morris..and boy, did he succeed!! ;0)

Yeah, I write about passion, and I bring in sex and a little rock n roll here and there, and why the hell not? The music is passionate, filled with sexual stories and maidens letting those knights in through their windows.

I see the Phwooooooar! Factor, and I write about it, and it drives the Folk Police nuts, because they want to 'appreciate' it stuck on their chairs with superglue, never moving a muscle, never having any thoughts of Cecil and Maudie on their Collective Nights Under the Stars...Nope, they only see the dates, hear the notes, decide whether the beat is correct...

I brought passion into the music of Show of Hands too...so what? Some of their songs are wonderfully passionate...Nowt wrong with that...

hell, it saddens me that they've now joined ranks with the wizzened wrinklies who keep English folk music up their own arses...but each to their own...They wanna listen to Brad, so be it..

Their music still brings passion to me though, because I feel very much as they do about the crap that is going down in this world right now..and how we are NOT all out on the streets about it, because our voices have been taken away...

On the BBC board I was asked to stop writing about 'social issues' because it was upsetting the Moanming Minnies, well fuck them, they NEED to be upset, because we are all going to hell on a handcart if we don't open our eyes to the Arrogance, the Ignorance and The Greed that has stifled REAL life for so very long....

Hear No Evil
See No Evil
Speak of No Evil

And you pretty much end up with Great Britain in 2010, along with vast areas of the rest of the world...


And when someone DOES write about YOUR music like that, you will know that you have 'made it' as a songwriter, because to be able to inspire, to anger, to open eyes with your words is always the sign of a strong songwriter. Steve Knightley is exactly that, and I don't give a flying rat's arse if people disagree with me or not, because that is how I feel, and it is my right to say and feel that way.

this does NOT mean that I swoon over Steve, I do NOT. But I believe in giving credit where credit is due, and when Steve gets a song right, he gets it VERY right.

I hope that Ian Anderson has now seen the light on this one, and will at long last stop dillydallying around and give Show of Hands the coverage they deserve...

And I say that IN SPITE OF Phil's letter and all your nastiness in here, because I have the guts to stand up for what I believe.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:48 AM

"And reminding people of your diatribe against them - a band you've never even seen - à propos of absolutely nothing.."

Then put this diatribe on here, Diane...I'm really interested to see it, as I've never written it..I started a thread ages back, praising The Imagined Village, put links in, the whole palaver. It was removed..

And while you're there, ask the Imagined Village myspace person to release their music out into Myspace, because they have it fixed so you cannot transfer their music to your page...which is crazy.

Ho hum...


Personally, I think this thread needs to be closed, as it's going nowhere, other than messing up this forum....but I'll leave that to Joe.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:50 AM

And...I'm STAGGERED that in all the thousands of words on here that you've all used against me, not ONE word have you written about 'Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed'


??????????????????????????????????????????


Weird, huh? ;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:50 AM

Barking.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:55 AM

Thanks Emma, I'd forgotten the link on that thread that went to the BBC board...and here, from that thread..

>>by theleveller (U3050883) , Sep 20, 2006

Hi Lizzie

I do agree with you that The Albion Chronicles is a wonderful site, although I haven't had time to fully explore it, and thank you for bringing it to our attention.

The point I was making was that this celebration of England is not a new phenomenon. You can trace it back through the 40's with H V Morton's book 'In Search of England' and the sequel 'I Saw Two Englands', through the fantastic Batsford books of the 20's and 30's with authors such as H E Bates, to the turn of the century with the Highways and Byways series.

I suppose there has been a revival more recently, largely thanks to visionary campaigners like Roger Deakin, and it's fantastic that this is all being brought together in Albion Chronicles. How many more pieces could you think of that could be included? My list is practically endless. <<<


There was some lovely discussion about the sites on there..

Yes, Sam would have put Folk Against Facism on there, he used to watch Mudcat all the time, so he'd know about it. No big deal.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:59 AM

"Barking."

Nope, for despite being kicked like a dog, by those who regard themselves as my ruthless ownwers, I know that I am a free dog, who is able to walk away from cruel words and untruths, with my tail wagging high in the air, for no-one has the right to kick me as you lot do.

Woof, bloody woof.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:23 AM

"I do agree with you that The Albion Chronicles is a wonderful site"

- and indeed it should have been; it blatantly appropiated all the best writings about folk music from various sources with no attribution for the original author or source

oh! apart from.......

"sam-and-lizzie
All Rights Reserved"

of course Lizzie you missed out the critique

"the overall effect is that of drowning in rose-water while being beaten over the head with rolls of Laura Ashley wallpaper."

which was one of the kindest descriptions I thought :)

and remember the (now defunct) "songs for swingng lovers" part of the Chronicles -

otherwise known as Copy and Paste 'R Us

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:26 AM

I know that I am a free dog, who is able to walk away from cruel words and untruths,

Can I just ask - does that mean you are leaving again? I wondered how long we are safe for.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:28 AM

Lizzie you need a reality check, you were banned from the BBC board for writing endless reams of drivel mainly about SOH and Seth Lakeman, you weren't call ' the Cornish binge poster ' for nothing were you ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:29 AM

I think you'll find I only entered this absolute shower of a thread because I had my two pennies worth to unload re. AIG and SoH's music in general but sadly a comment i made was distorted beyond comprehension and the resultant 'i don't need your permission to like folk' flannel ensued.

Lizzie again, i was not giving permission to like folk(!) i was saying that i welcome those who enjoy and participate in it. Every week i see musicians and singers both establised and novice in my session and make a point of encouraging everyone to get involved even if just bellowing out the chorus of a shanty from the sidelines or doorway, it is fantastic what a little encouragement and openess can do and many who began as listeners now regularly participate all due making folk and yes, trad music, accessible and above all enjoyable - those 'wizzened wrinklies' (sic) you refer to SoH now pandering to are the very people who perpetuate these songs and trad history and without them there would be no SoH or Seth Lakeman and the like.
As for this daft strain about never writing about my music and 'reassuring' me of that, it is sad that you would dismiss it out of hand based simply on an online forum conversation. If you ever heard it you might like it, you might hate it but to just dismiss something with utter blind ignorance of it's merit or lack of it to me is the canker of a closed and narrow mind.
My name is Aisling Austin - I will be playing in the summer at a two day local folk festival here in Bedfordshire - come and see me,have a good time, discover some new bands/musicians, make an informed decision.....THEN don't write about it :-D

mind thee I'm not a 'new discovery' of an already longstanding and much publicised folk/pop band am I?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:30 AM

So, if anyone had not already gathered, if you do not agree with Liz you are a souless moron, superglued to a chair, with not an ounce of passion in you. If you go to concerts, go to folk clubs, run folk clubs, run festivals, dance, perform or do anything of any use whatsoever you are 'the folk police'. It is only by writing, on a forum already dedicated to folk music, about how good that the music that you like is, can your soul be saved. Ah well. Good job I wrote that bit about TT. Maybe there is hope for me. Just think. 30 years of organising, arranging, singing, dancing and playing gone to waste.

Wonder if I can improve on anyones performace, like Liz does when she brought passion into the music of Show of Hands too... It is quite amazing that they won best duo. not only do they have an extra performer gigging with them somethimes. They also have Liz bringing passion to their music. I often wondered how they did it...

DeG

More seriously - I think if I see any more such arrogance and ignorance I will loose the will to live:-) Good job she is not greedy as well!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:40 AM

In fairness Lizzie and Sam never agreed that they had appropriated the work of others and then marked it:

""sam-and-lizzie
All Rights Reserved"

They just avoided the question. As Lizzie has just done again.
And be careful of using the term "folk police". When I queried it once before, Lizzie wrote a whole page about me on Myspace. I complained. It was taken down. Shame in one sense. It was making me a lot of friends.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:36 PM

"When I queried it once before, Lizzie wrote a whole page about me on Myspace. I complained. It was taken down. Shame in one sense. It was making me a lot of friends."


Just to clarify. No such thing ever happened, first because I have never written a whole paragraph, let alone a whole page about this person, and because no blog of mine has ever been taken down by Myspace.

Yeesh, what a load of utter, lying bullshit.

Again, this thread is best closed down now, because when it gets to the stage where lies and personal attacks are all that is in a thread, I don't really see the point anymore.


Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:39 PM

Just in case anyone was in any doubt about the popularity of the Oysters BL (before Lizzie) -

Fiddlers Dram, 1979

Recognise anyone?

How about 10 years later?


:D


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:49 PM

Good band, good song, good video.

But 276 posts to this thread, mostly squabbling.

Still, I'd have missed seeing the vid without it.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:49 PM

As usual, Shakespeare had a few words for threads like this one.

"O monstrous! but one half-penny-worth of bread to this intolerable deal of sack!" (Henry IV pt 1)

No, Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed isn't over the top - so there. (Former banker).


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,mad spaniel
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 01:56 PM

thats my dads fiddle in the fiddlers dram video-apparently


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 02:01 PM

First personal attack and lie in the thread...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:05 PM

Shite! Diane put a Show of Who? link in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's TRUE, she DOES have Show of Who? knickers!

I didn't dare believe the rumour, of course, but now....



WOW!


How come the calls for thread closure only come in 2 weeks later I wonder?

Some people really do take the biscuit.

DeG


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 02:16 PM

Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed isn't over the top

If I recall, the OP's complaint was that the publicity for the song was making a mess and that it isn't "f*lk" anyway. All very true. So?
However, if you're talking about wanker-bankers' AIG behaviour, yes it is over the top. Obviously. Respect to Billy Bragg for getting out there, literally on his soapbox, to shame the government into forcing the banks to cut the bonuses.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:45 AM

Good link to start with for anyone, like me, who does not know what BB was doing! Good for him. Far more effective than whinging on an internet chat site I reckon:-)

DeG


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,johnp
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:39 AM

lizzie cornish has sent 21% of the posts to this thread. Is this some sort of record


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Hamish
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:00 AM

Just looked at the YouTube: excellent song, brilliant video. That is all.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:11 AM

Add up how many posts were attacking me..and bob's yer answer, john. Until you've had blatant lies written down on here about you, which they know I'll respond to, you won't even start to understand.

Tell you what though, instead of making posts like that, why don't you post something about Show of Hands...

Say for instance.........

..that one in 5 shops in many of our towns are now empty. And that so many others are charity shops, who take over the High Streets....that people aren't even going to shops as they used, buying online instead...

Write about how Steve and Phil have been trying to get people to think about this for YEARS, encouraging folks to buy local produce, support their local shops, post offices...

Listen to The Cold Heart of England, or Country Life, or even Roots....then listen again to Arrogance Ignorance & Greed, and think of all the greedy councils who've bled shop owners dry, banks who no longer support small businesses, give out mortgages, or lend money at vast rates that people can't afford to repay...

In fact...talk about ANYTHING to do with Show of Haands and leave me alone!

OK?

Got it?

GREAT!!!!!!!


And if you lot CANNOT rechannel your obsessive hatreds elsewhere, then again, perhaps it's best this thread is closed down.


And well done to Billy Bragg, but hey, I didn't see that on the news.
I didn't see it plastered all over the media, on the radio, primetime slots....

Why?

Because Billy would start a massive Rebellion, that's why! So the Powers That Be keep it away from the proles, whilst giving them ladeedadeeda music to listen to, to keep them happy and stop them from thinking..


And if you feel the overwhelming urge to purge your problems on me, stop...and read this instead...redirect your thoughs, just for once!


ANTHEM FOR DISSENT
By Ann Onimus, John Boncore and Ron Bankley

United in fear we trade freedom, our prize for the Patriot Act as united we securitize
United in power over patriarchy, we misogynize
United in self-righteous arrogance, we imperialise
Untied in degenerate genital mutilation, we circumcise
United we consume and spend, and, united, we capitalize
United in greed we exploit, as united we multinationalize
United we commit economic suicide as, united, we globalise
United in beligerent violence, we waste trillions as, united, we militarize
United we massacre millions and think we're so brave, united we fantasize
United we bomb, destroy, maim, mass murder, slaughter and terrorize
United in massive denial we look the other way, as united, we atrocitize
United in 'might makes right', we dominate and, united, we hegemonize
United we pillage the third world and then, united, we moralize
United we covet their resources and, united, we monopolize
United in total denial we deny that, united, we brutalize
United we believe without question the star spangled propaganda our leaders so unceasingly televise
United we, so very obediently, swallow the many fabricated red white and blue lies
United we're so blind, with closed eyes except wide-eyed Ashcroft spies
And in the many resource rich countries that, united, we occupy and we colonize, and united we impoverish and victimize
Yet another corporate billion is pried and yet another heart broken mother cries and yet another star spangled bomb drops
And yet another innocent child heinously dies
Yet another example of united we collateralize
Just U.S. business as usual, as united we privatize
United we stand completely deranged
Global terrorist in our 'freedom and democracy' disguise
As united we stand apathetic and complicit in American terrorism
As united we turn on TV to de-sensitise
As united we stand in massive denial
As united we ignore the innocent pleas of the innocent ones we exterminate
As united we stand inanely pledging allegiance to the flag of facist terrorism
As their blood on it dries
As united we stand, surrendering our freedom to the real 'axis of evil' Corporation, CIA, and Military guise
As united we stand with our heads in the sand, as the American Fourth Reich is born
And freedom dies
As united we stand so comfortably numb and deniably dumb
That united we don't have sense to realise
That united we stand on the brink of the New World Order totalitarian police state
United we are so......Blind


Then...buy Ron Bankley's brilliant CD 'Insurgent Sun' where you can hear that very track, amongst many other superb and intelligent songs....and OPEN YOUR EYES!

Thank you!

Ron Bankley - Myspace


Bloody Yeesh!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: TopcatBanjo
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:14 AM

As a relative newcomer to this board, and after a few years' experience belonging to other forums (fora?) could one of the old hands on here please enlighten me:

- What does it take to get banned on this board?
- I know the technology seems a bit basic on here compared to most forum set-ups, but is there not an option for an "ignore" button so that one can block certain posters' contributions from view? Denied "the oxygen of publicity" they would not get the reactions they so clearly crave.......

Just a couple of thoughts from an astonished newbie...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,johnp
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:22 AM

Show of hands are talented musicians who produce some interesting material. They do it for a living and good luck to them.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:30 AM

The thing is though although SoH do indeed have a message in their music about the state of society it does become crowded and lost amongst the bangs and whistles and bombastic style that they heap on top of what, when pared down, is a better song for being able to hear the narrative.
They're not the only ones, Woodie Guthrie, Leon Rosselson, Dick Gaughan, Pete Seeger and Mr.Bragg as well as people like Tommy Armstrong the pit poet and reams and reams of others have been doing it for years. Songs like the World turned Upside Down et al are played across the country every week and I know contemporary musicians who write political songs still - but what has changed? Yes there is a problem with society and yes SoH tackling it their own way and standing up against bankers and other assorted parasitic creatures is ok by me - what I object to is blantant self-publicity and a whole load of panto and faffing about which clouds the issue.
It all just makes me cringe a wee bit.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Mad Spaniel
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:36 AM

Too right Topcatbanjo.

I've written things and people have not agreed with me, thats their perogative (spelling not good!)but i am willing to listen to their opinion.

Lizzie is just not playing the game. Making it about her, if she wants to get back to a show of hands discussion she should SHUT UP

This thread should be about Show of hands. Fan or not you have to admire their balls though I also think some of the images in the video are CGI'd. Be interesting to know if they are or not?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:51 AM

I repeat. The fist lie and personal attack on the thread was -

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:05 PM

Shite! Diane put a Show of Who? link in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's TRUE, she DOES have Show of Who? knickers!

I didn't dare believe the rumour, of course, but now....



WOW!


But of course this will be ignored because it is far easier to believe that one is being attcked because of some conspiricy that it is to believe that one is being attacked because one deserves it.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 07:27 AM

Oh Lizzie...
We're not against you, far from it. But the way you react to most posters on here, is childish.
SoH are a good band (not Duo!) agreed.
Oyster Band are good too. As were Fiddlers Dram before them.
Billy Bragg is a major champion for the oppressed in this country.
As is Leon Rosselson, Dick Gaughan, and hundreds of other musicians..Pete Morton, Pete Coe, Jez Lowe, etc.
If you want to change the world, form your own political party, write songs, get on you're soapbox (Just like Mr Bragg has done), put your money where your mouth is...We will all applaud. Good on yer girl.
What we, on this forum, and others do not need is to have hysterical rants from you.
You're on the wrong message board here.

Most of us have been there, done the marches, fought the good fight, etc. (I was a bit young for Jarrow and Aldermaston I admit!)

So, why are you shouting at us? In the broadest sense, we all agree with a lot of what you say. We are not the problem. The establishment is the problem...Go and have a go at them, and leave us sad guitar players to discuss tunings....


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 08:27 AM

"Lizzie is just not playing the game. Making it about her, if she wants to get back to a show of hands discussion she should SHUT UP"


I have asked, over and over that it becomes about Show of Hands..I have left postings to come on here..and guess what, they're filled with lies and vitriol about me. So, I ask again...for people to talk about the subject of this thread..

Now, thank God, it seems they are, apart from the usual few and perhaps 'Mad Spaniel' you should ask those people to stop bringing my name into things. Thanks.

David, for your information, because you are not aware of how long Diane and I have been joking towards one another, that was humour. You have to understand the history behind this whole thing, and that goes back to the BBC board, where Diane and I would write hilarious things about each other as well as lose it completely. Probably best to leave that part to us....as I can assure you that Diane will understand my words there...(and cue Sweetums rage...!) ;0)

"This thread should be about Show of hands. Fan or not you have to admire their balls though I also think some of the images in the video are CGI'd. Be interesting to know if they are or not?"

THANK YOU!!!! At LONG last someone has got the message!

This thread is.......about......Show of Hands!!



Onward and Upward..


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 08:39 AM

Show of Hands. Great band, marvellous fan-base. Pack out most halls. Great song-writers and terrific instrumentalists. From what I understand from those who have met them, terrific blokes. Do a lot for folk music in their area.

As I understand it Phil has publicly posted that he wants Lizzie to shut up.

There you are Lizzie, discussion of Show of Hands.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 08:53 AM

Diane wears Show of Hands knickers = humour

Lizzie wrote a whole page about me on Myspace = a load of utter, lying bullshit.


Sorry. Can't see the difference myself. Never say I am not willing to learn though so if Diane can confirm that the 'history; between you is all in good fun and Folkiedave confirms that his comments about you are part of some incidious plot against you then I will stand corrected.

Oh, and in case you had not noticed, the thread was not actualy about Show of Hands, but about their latest video. Which I have now seen and must say I have seen and heard better. Pretty good but I will not be spending any hard earned on it. Sorry guys but I am sure you can do withoout me - Son number 1 is a big fan and makes up for it anyway:-)

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 09:04 AM

Diane and I have been joking

I am not joking. Nor was Phil Beer. Nor Eliza Carthy. Nor many others who don't (yet) say what they think about the embarrassment they suffer from MLC's destructive drivel so very publicly. Music fora are for exchanging information; they are not crazed fanzines. I come here to seek and to impart information on songs and tunes, not to see distasteful crap about "boysies". In recent days I have added details about music in Hampstead in the 60s and clarified the origin of a tune used for a Child ballad that a contributor thought had been written by a band currently doing it. MLC isn't interested in this but many others are. OK, she could flutter away on the Devon breeze and seek out media reports of B Bragg's anti-RBS campaign which she says (unsurprisingly) that she has no knowledge of. Last year on May Day, BB, Leon Rosselson, Robb Johnson and Martin Carthy were performing for free and a load of trade union activists were speaking at a commemoration of the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Don't suppose she's heard of them either. She certainly wasn't supporting the event. Pity, since they provided a perfect example of the way to go.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 10:21 AM

Lizzie, sadly no-one else finds the things written 'hilarious' nor do I detect one little gasp of genuine joviality in your exchanges with Borchester Echo let alone wit - it just appears to me that you antagonise her.
To echo the above sentiments the vast majority of people come here to impart and glean information not be hysterically preached at and as Ralphie said people do broadly agree with the more lucid and sensible things you say, myself included, just disagree with the manner in which you say it and react to people.

sad guitarists going on about guitar tunings is far more enlightening and worthwhile than the narcissistic ranting and spleen venting of a clearly troubled mind daubed all over the thread.

...i quite like CGCDGA ;-D


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 10:39 AM

Hi Ms Flash - I discoverd, no more than 5 years ago, that when I learned to play guitar from my Dad about 40 years ago I learned in DGDGBD. Only ever played one tune in that but I have managed to remeber and ressurect it recently:-) Did learn in EADGBE as well but as I never practice anything I never became any good:-( I still like Open G though:-)

DeG


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 11:08 AM

Indeed, my partner has played in DGDGAD so long he no longer knows how to do standard tuning - he says it makes his beloved old Fylde scream :-D


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 11:20 AM

3 feckin hundred. Have ye no homes to go to?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 11:21 AM

Here is a link to my mate Mike's guitar and workshop website.

Loads of good stuff about guitar tunings.

Discuss.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 11:22 AM

And frankly Peter I rarely make comments on guests postings.

But you stole my 300 there!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 11:24 AM

Course we have homes to go to - But I am at work at the moment. What do you expect me to do? Work???

:D


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: glueman
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 11:34 AM

"Music fora are for exchanging information; they are not crazed fanzines"

If only that were true. Show me an upholder of the tradition and I'll show you a fan with good PR. What is the folk revival if not a fan forum?

Lizzie's is just an extreme version of a common malaise, you see her in yourselves which is why she scares you. I wouldn't open my curtains if SoH played in the garden but that's because I don't like middle aged men shouting polemic on subjects I can make my own mind up about, ta. I'm sure they are better than competent musicians, support the folk community and donate to their local cat's home. People need to remember their opinions have no objective reality, for or against.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 12:18 PM

they are not crazed fanzines

I liked Mudcat. There was an amazing amount of information and knowledge on here and you could reckon a lot of the information was totally accurate. Malcolm Douglas (RIP) made nearly 9,000 erudite and highly accurate posts (generally speaking). I used to love reading his words - even though I could and occasionally did nip round to his house.

Others have been equally kind and helpful to the Mudcat Community. So people mention their favourite artists and some post links.

Now of course it has become "Mudcat Care in the Community"


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 12:33 PM

Flashmeister: "spleen venting"

Oi, Flash! Ow! OW! That hurt...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 02:30 PM

Diane, first of all, you don't have to open this thread, nor read anything I write...but you'd be lost without your Sidmouth Seagull, so go on wich yer! ((xx))

Flashy...actually, for your information, LOADS of people thought we were an absolute hoot. Hell, I even got a 'live' messageboard going on the BBC every single Monday evening, when we'd all tune in to Folkwaves and fall over sideways with laughter...apart from er...Sweetums, bless her cotton socks, but she loves to be the Anti-Giggle, so that's OK.

Best not to advise me on things you weren't a part of back then..

Look, Phil was just shite scared 'cos Madame Intelligensia had snoggyboggyed him at a gig and he'd been told she was me, as I patiently explained before..Thus, he rushed to his computer to BEG me to leave him alone...horrified at the thought!

(I'm writing this with a big grin on my face, for the Humourless Ones, btw)

"We don't think you're funny, Lizzie!"

Tough... ;0)







AND.....on the previous page I told you how a chappie came over to ask Sam whether he'd like to use some of his photos on The Albion Chronicles, but...I couldn't find them. Well, here they are...some very early photos of The Albion Dance Band...

Just click on 'Photographs' to see the whole lot.....

The Albion Dance Band - Albion Chronicles


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:14 PM

Poor, poor Lizzie the Victim. Of course, she never, ever makes snidey sideswipes at people to provoke them in to responding to her, and then cries foul when they do...that would never, EVER happen.

But because poor, beleaguered Phil Beer told me at the folk awards he was very happy to have her reminded of what he said to her a few months ago, here it is again for those who may have missed it. You'll note what he actually said was quite different to Lizzie's version of it, but maybe she needs reminding again:


"Ok Enough now!!

I pass through these boards once every couple of weeks but simply don't have time to peruse them regularly. I'm too busy gigging or recording and they are my priorities in life. I'm far more concerned with doing it than talking about it. Please forgive me posting this in one thread when it is relevant to several, and indeed to other boards as well. (Please feel free to cut and paste, anyone who chooses to!) The last bit of this piece is completely relevent to the thread.

LC. I don't know who you are, only that you are from my patch and seem to have seen us rather more times than is, perhaps, healthy. Maybe I spoke to you even on the last two local shows . I don't know. I understand that you mean well and that you feel you are championing some sort of cause on our (and indeed others) behalfs. Let me explain a bit about this internet place. Its not a universal fanzine. Its a genre specific place of chat and discussion for a bunch of folks, many of whom have a great deal of knowledge and indeed expertise in their subject. I know many of them as both friends and acquaintances. My band makes music that has one of its (Possibly cloven) hooves in this place and the other three 'Out There' in the rest of the world. Many of the folks here consider themselves as (self appointed) guardians of something rare and precious. I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with this. All I ask is that they maintain visiting hours so that I can get on with building the new wing (Crap metaphor, sorry!) whilst having access to the edifice. (Also a self appointed task) Virtually everyone contributing here decided whether they liked/disliked our music more than 15 years ago. Our task is as always to bring the music to a wider audience and whether or not anyone here likes or dislikes us is not relevant.

What is important now is that I must try and make you understand the difference between things like, say, the Folk Awards, the Mercury Prize and the EFDSS badge. They serve their purposes in order to obtain a degree of status in the world at large. They give us something to say about ourselves in press releases and are sometimes good for the personal ego. Thats all.

When Ian A pushed for the EFDSS badge for Walter Pardon, it was an entirely and utterly different ball game. The EFDSS at that juncture was internally and politically in a very odd place in which song took a very poor back seat to dance ( Hence---DEAFASS the Dance Earnestly And Forget About Song Society) I never bothered with the Sidmouth festival in my younger days because it was 90% dance oriented.

This small but significant internal award to Walter was actually very very important in terms of getting the powers to recognise that here was a person of great stature and importance as a real, living, singing, purveyor of traditional song. None of us can ever be that. At best, if we're very lucky, some of what we do may pass into the song line. It would be good to think so, however, nothing that we do can possibly be compared to what Walter actually WAS (To quote SK).

Please Lizzie. I'm delighted that you like our music. We are absolutely clear about who we are, what we are doing, and where its going. I just turned 56 last week. I still have the will and the energy and the best is yet to come. I can handle any form of abuse, misconception, or downright vitriol. What I do NOT wish to be portrayed as is a member of some form of geriatric Boy Band. This sort of adulation is utterly embarrassing and I'd really like it to stop now.

Sorry to take up everyone elses time. I'm delighted that the EFDSS is in the shape its in now. It bodes well for the future. We are not just passing through, we are taking it with us. Keep the doors open and the pages turning!!!

Phil (Should be in the studio) Beer"


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:28 PM

Ah, so you want to talk about the Albion Band now? The OP started this thread off complaining about SoH's vid so I really think you ought to ask him before changing it so radically, or even demanding its closure. Though, of course, you don't HAVE to read it, nor say anything at all . . .

Your "informant" is, however, sadly adrift. The Albion Band was formed as a loose conglomeration of musicians to back Shirley Collins on No Roses during the recording in the Island Studios in 1972. I still have my white label. Then a core band comprising Simon Nicol, Steve Ashley, Sue Draheim, Dave Mattacks and Ashley Hutchings toured. Just because your amateur snapper took these shots in 1974 does this line-up (it's hard to decipher who is in it) suddenly become "original". The Albion Band had, after all, even more line-ups than Hedgehog Pie.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:32 PM

Oh poo....you're just miffed at those photos. :0)

And now, back to SoH...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:36 PM

Look, Phil was just shite scared 'cos Madame Intelligensia had snoggyboggyed him at a gig and he'd been told she was me, as I patiently explained before..Thus, he rushed to his computer to BEG me to leave him alone...horrified at the thought!

Humour?

Look, Lizzie was just shite scared 'cos some bloke she met on the internet had just realised she was barking mad and dumped her. We patiently explined that she was indeed three people short of a duo but she rushed to the computer to swear and rant at people who had fuck all to do with anything to leave her alone.

Still humour?

Must be because I am pissing down my trouser leg as I write it...

DeG


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:42 PM

"But because poor, beleaguered Phil Beer told me at the folk awards he was very happy to have her reminded of what he said to her a few months ago, here it is again for those who may have missed it. You'll note what he actually said was quite different to Lizzie's version of it, but maybe she needs reminding again:"

Er...methinks you can get into trouble for constantly posting the same thing, over and over and over. That must be about ooooooo the 356th time you've posted that now. Yawn....

I find it very odd and kinda disturbing that EVEN at the Folk Awards, you were...apparently, carrying on your er..carrying on about me.

???????????????

You know, you really are getting more than a little obsessive, Joan...and of course, winding poor Phil up ever more..Nooooo, you wouldn't be doing it for that reason,now, would you?

Madame Intelligensia is a *very* scarybaby... LOL

You know, the one thing I always liked about Phil was his sense of humour....Maybe he's Madame Intelligensia has turned him into a Stepford Fiddle Player? YIKES! She must have slipped some dark potion into his drink...I have to rescue him from a life of slavery!
(I'm about to fall off my chair with giggles here) :0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:46 PM

I can't do it any more. I have tried my best to avoid personal attacks but I can only say it one way. You really are a fucking nutter. Not in a nice way like the old bloke on the bus. In a nasty malicious vindictive way. Hannibal Lector has nothing on you.

May be deleted but I hope you read it first.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:07 PM

"I find it very odd and kinda disturbing that EVEN at the Folk Awards, you were...apparently, carrying on your er..carrying on about me."

Well, actually it was Steve who brought it up to me. He mentioned that he had observed your most recent antics on this thread, and we had a bit of a laugh, and both agreed that you are utterly barking. Though when I suggested he might be the mischievous Taddylad he was very clear that he's lurked, but not posted.

Phil seemed genuinely dismayed at your persistence, actually. I think (it was rather late at this stage, and a few light ales may have been taken) he even suggested he might have to send you another message, but I'm pretty sure I said that the attention would only encourage you.

If I have misremembered the gist of this conversation at all, Mr Beer and /or Mr Knightley are very welcome to correct me.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:39 PM

Lizzie was just shite scared 'cos some bloke she met on the internet had just realised she was barking mad and dumped her.

Really? People meet on the internet? That's amazing. I didn't know that happened. That's a real piece of Lizziana.

I must save that.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:52 PM

It's because of threads like this that, a few years back, I stopped taking mudcat seriously as a music site.Now I tend to just make nonsensical or contraversial posts in the BS sections. Mudcat has long been an unmoderated bear pit. My musical compadres would be appalled to learn that I even looked in here. What a shame.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,glueperson googling
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:00 PM

Mudcat is a case of bright enough to bitch, not smart enough to let it lie.
Too many modestly sized fish in tiny ponds all thinking they're sharks instead of sticklebacks.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:02 PM

I think there is a lot in that last post Mr Glueperson.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:16 PM

I'm beginning to be in one accord with Mr/s O'Barmy.
Yes. lizzie is bonkers. But, she's clever enough to know how to press the right buttons. Just as that bloke WAV does on his extremely strange Walkabouts thread.
Like you Paco. I come here to seek information. Musical, Technical, whatever. And, by and large that is what I find. It's a valuable resource.
Sadly, I'm only human, and when she attacks friends, I react.(Not nice or clever, I know, Mea Culpa)
But I react.
I even try and be helpful, as I've said before, I actually agree with a lot of her sentiments, but, why preach to the already converted?
Go and fight the opposition in the real world. not here in cyberspace.
Stand for election...Theres still time before May!
Lizzie and WAV would make a dream team!


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:20 PM

It's because of threads like this that, a few years back, I stopped taking mudcat seriously as a music site.

You know, Paco. I wish I would have thought of that. I always thought it was a serious site for people that love folk an blues music. Well, you live and learn...

:D

(Where is that silvery smiley when you need it?)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:32 PM

Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie - PM
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:16 PM

I'm beginning to be in one accord with Mr/s O'Barmy.


That's excellent then....because in the previous thread about this CD, which was far nicer than this thread..with far more positive postings about..er..music, he said this, Ralph...


Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed (Show of Hands CD)
From: Paco O'Barmy - PM
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 02:38 PM

hiya Lizzie,
            It's thanks TO YOU that we got into Show of Hands!!! You got such a slagging on a thread a few years back about SOH, that I just had to hear what all the fuss was about!! So I popped out one lunchtime and bought 'Country Life' We loved it , and have followed them ever since!
            re: political folk, yes I understand.But we have all got the vote now, (even women) so, to my mind, the purpose of the Folk Singer has been acheived. Therefore they are now redundant, and should move aside for the next ( fully enfranchised ) generation. <<<


Well, well, well......


Sux years of publicity never did Show of Hands any harm at all. There is no such thing as bad publicity, only bad 'mates' who make yer life hell 'cos their eaten up with jealousy that your more popular than they are...

And of course, let's all shoot ANYONE who DARES to be 'popular' in the English folk world, rather than 'the same' 'equal' and 'non-descript'


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:33 PM

Good to see that you agree with Paco, too, David.

(silvery smiley) :0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:39 PM

Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed
From: GUEST,Fagan family - PM
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 09:42 AM

We love it and think it is their best so far.

Thank you Lizzie for starting this thread >>>



Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed
From: Dave Roberts - PM
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 01:04 PM

Coming back to Show Of Hands, I just watched/listened to the video.

It's brilliant - a protest song in the good, old-fashioned, worthwhile sense.

SoH have played Middlewich several times, and were never less than fabulous.<<<<


RE: Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed (Show of Hands CD)
From: theleveller - PM
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 03:43 AM

What I've always loved about Show of Hands is that they are never afraid to embrace the issues that matter, be it illegal wars, greedy bankers or the decimation of the countryside by those same selfish bastards and their like buying up the housing stock for second homes. This is in the true spirit of folk music. Yes, this CD will certainly be top of my Christmas list. <<<<



There ya go! Some decent messages from the previous thread, which you can find at the top of this page, link Number 1


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:50 PM

Lizzie.....Errrrmmm?
Your point being?
When did any musician want to be popular?
Musicians make music. thats what they do.
If they get lucky, maybe they'll make a few shillings. (Not me sadly)
Trying to turn traditional music into some sort of quasi X Factor, is quite frankly nauseating.
"Popular in the English Folk World"
That to me means, You get 30 people in a dingy upstairs room in a pub, having driven 400 miles for 50 quid.
Thats a pretty good gig to me.
All your boysies, are in the main, damn well destitute. and play music because that is what they do. It's bad enough earning less than the minimum wage per annum (However talented they may be), But to then be subjected to fawning idolatry by someone who doesn't even want to buy their product, and expects to be given it for nothing. Is just downright insulting.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:51 PM

Oh really? Here's one MLC forgot.

Mr / Ms O'Barmy also wrote this:

From: Paco O'Barmy - PM
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 11:52 AM

I like Show of Hands... have about ten of their CD's... seen them umpteen times. But this is where I differ from the F#lk world, I would no more take my politics from a singer than I would from my milkman!!! I won't be buying this particular CD of their's. Sorry chaps.


Oddly, the bizarreness of the punctuation strongly resembles that of the OP.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:51 PM

"hiya Lizzie,
            It's thanks TO YOU that we got into Show of Hands!!! You got such a slagging on a thread a few years back about SOH, that I just had to hear what all the fuss was about!! So I popped out one lunchtime and bought 'Country Life' We loved it , and have followed them ever since!"


I think that's called 'checkmate', but I could be wrong. ;0)


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:55 PM

"Your point being?"

My point being that 'Paco' got into their music because of reading threads like these...which proves that these threads ARE of importance, because, just like the ones I started about your music, they help to sell the artists CDs and gain them followers.

"Is there a move *beyond* checkmate?" she asked, innocently...


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:59 PM

Lizzie.
Multiple cut and pastes do not change anything one jot.
I will start to respect you, when you learn how to sing, or play an instrument.
It's patently obvious that you don't intend to do this.
It's a bit sad really. All this energy venting your spleen on messageboards, when you could have been learning to play the fiddle.
Because thats what all of your "boysies" have spent many years doing.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:05 PM

No, the Boysies were the Morris Dancing Boysies, Ralph...get it right.

If you look at the seven pages of this thread, you'll see there's not ONE girly reference to Steve and Phil...only serious reference to their song.

I'm not a musician, Ralph. I've said that a thousand times..and if you only have respect for musicians, well...you're missing out on an awful lot of other folks.

And nope, the venting my spleen has brought in loads of folks..not all of whom are musicians, for there is a world beyond, you know..

In fact, if more people jumped up and down, ranted, raged and raved, then maybe we'd not be living in the Age of AIG at all.

Now there's a thought....

I'm off to listen to Ron Bankley's new song again, so if you'll excuse me........


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:06 PM

I think that's called 'checkmate', but I could be wrong.

You are wrong.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:08 PM

Is there a move *beyond* checkmate?

Checkmate is not a "move" but a position you find yourself in when you have made no many errors it is impossible to move any further. You constantly bleat that "messages need to be got out" because somebody or other has "hidden them away", and, furthermore, (according to you) it "wasn't like this before. Mr / Ms O'Barmy states quite adamantly that a songwriter is not a particularly good source of politics. Indeed not, it can only be a starting point. One from which you lag far behind. Checkmate is where you are now. There is only one path out of the hole you are in. Will you take it?


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:25 PM

Nope...Paco cleary stated WHY he found the music of Show of Hands, and I've put that statement above.

He then stated later on that he didn't like folk singers being political...and I took issue with him over that, in the other thread.

Checkmate is when you've outsmarted your opponent/s...and won.

I was taught chess by a man who started every single game without the Queen, because such was his skill of planning and anticipation, no-one could beat him.

It matters not how many times I have to read 'Phil said THIS about YOU!" or "Steve said THAT!"....nor 'They think you're as unpleasant as I do!".....

What matters is that I KNOW I have brought people into their music and that's what it has all been about and why you have sought to get my voice silenced, because back then, you loathed them.

Now, you all love 'em, which is GREAT!   

I pass my baton to you all.......


Checkmate, mates.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:47 PM


It matters not how many times I have to read 'Phil said THIS about YOU!" or "Steve said THAT!"


Clearly not. What you refuse to understand is that Beer & Knightley just want you to SHUT UP. What they don't mind is criticism as long as it is informed and music-based. They understand that many (myself among them) far prefer some of their other projects to SoH which continues to strike me as over-produced and a tad bombastic. For this reason I have never seen a SoH set but wish them well and hope they make a living. I've never even met Steve K and have encountered Mr Beer only vaguely at a workshop. Thus, I neither "love" nor "hate" them but have come to admire them as people for enduring so bravely all the shit that MLC hurls their way. Do grow up, fuck off and LEARN SOMETHING before spouting any more drivel.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignor
From: Flashmeister
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 08:21 PM

Flashy (working that diminutive there) she say - people here and now don't find it hilarious. I neither know nor give a tuppenny fuck about 'what went went before' but DO find the mad rants beyond tiresome and you do bloody well goad these people on here Lizzie, to the scary point where a poor musician is driven to write a plea for you to stop! that is going-through-peoples-bins scary.
blah.

Spleen Cringe - sorry my old china, there appears to have been set off a whole wrenching, twisting flurry of spleen venting round these parts. there is an ointment you can get for it though :-D

David at 0346 - that truly was your last nerve being tap danced upon - nay morris danced upon!!

Sod it, I am becoming as unhinged as LC - over and out on this - off to drink more gin until I am blind so can no longer read the rantings of the mad Mrs.Rochester escaped from her attic and kick the proverbial cat.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 08:56 PM

Phil Beer:
I can handle any form of abuse, misconception, or downright vitriol. What I do NOT wish to be portrayed as is a member of some form of geriatric Boy Band.

I haven't met Phil but I'd like to.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 02:45 AM

Monty Python Argument Sketch

I love these moments. I like to wave at them as they pass by.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 03:48 AM

With clogs on, Flashmeister:-) But it was not really with what you may think! I thought I had just figured out the rules of this game but they were changed again. It is no longer anything that Lizzie says = humour; anything that anyone else says = lying bollocks. I think I have got it again now though.

This thread has stayed remarkably unmoderated and I now believe it is a concious decision. While all the bollocks is going on here, the rest of the world is safe from the ravages of the mad person. It seems to be working to a certain extent so let's keep it up. I have also spotted that 'winning' seems to be important to some, sad as it is, so let them have their deluded 'victories' if it makes them happy, while the rest of us get on with real life. Think of it as care in the community.

It's a pity that good performers have to take this type of nonsense but at least any remotely sane person can see what is going on. And it could be worse. She could be doing the same for real!

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 08:12 AM

She could be doing the same for real!

What evidence do you have that she doesn't? Come on Dave, that is a simple assertion you have absolutely no evidence for whatsoever.

I am surprised at you Dave.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 08:33 AM

SOH apparently owe all their success to Lizzie Cornish, I'm surprised they haven't put her on the payroll.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 09:16 AM

Sorry Dave - You are quite right of course. It was a wish rather than assertion and I would like to make it clear that I am not encouraging any such actions from any person, living or imagined:-)

D.


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Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: BB
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 02:50 PM

Ruth Archer said, "the attention would only encourage you". So why do you all do it?


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