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thought about yodeling

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GUEST,leeneia 28 Jan 10 - 04:49 PM
Artful Codger 28 Jan 10 - 05:04 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 28 Jan 10 - 05:17 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 28 Jan 10 - 09:56 PM
Artful Codger 29 Jan 10 - 05:31 AM
Hamish 29 Jan 10 - 05:54 AM
Artful Codger 29 Jan 10 - 06:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Jan 10 - 11:06 AM
Artful Codger 29 Jan 10 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,leeneia 29 Jan 10 - 10:56 PM
Artful Codger 30 Jan 10 - 02:13 AM
Jack Blandiver 30 Jan 10 - 04:28 AM
scouse 30 Jan 10 - 09:38 AM
GUEST,DonMeixner 30 Jan 10 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,leeneia 30 Jan 10 - 02:05 PM
GUEST,Guest-Rod 30 Jan 10 - 05:54 PM
Artful Codger 30 Jan 10 - 05:57 PM
GUEST,leeneia 31 Jan 10 - 03:12 PM
Artful Codger 31 Jan 10 - 08:54 PM
Melissa 31 Jan 10 - 08:59 PM
GUEST,leeneia 01 Feb 10 - 01:38 AM
Melissa 01 Feb 10 - 01:44 AM
GUEST,leeneia 01 Feb 10 - 11:26 AM
olddude 01 Feb 10 - 11:40 AM
Artful Codger 01 Feb 10 - 07:31 PM
Melissa 01 Feb 10 - 07:34 PM
Artful Codger 01 Feb 10 - 09:22 PM
kendall 01 Feb 10 - 10:03 PM
Seamus Kennedy 01 Feb 10 - 10:07 PM
Seamus Kennedy 01 Feb 10 - 10:11 PM
kendall 01 Feb 10 - 11:07 PM
Melissa 01 Feb 10 - 11:32 PM
Stephen L. Rich 02 Feb 10 - 01:56 AM
GUEST,leeneia 02 Feb 10 - 03:10 PM
Artful Codger 02 Feb 10 - 07:38 PM
GUEST,leeneia 02 Feb 10 - 10:04 PM
GUEST,Kendall 03 Feb 10 - 12:15 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Feb 10 - 03:57 PM
Melissa 12 Feb 10 - 04:07 AM
gnu 12 Feb 10 - 05:50 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 Feb 10 - 09:27 AM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Feb 10 - 02:33 PM
Melissa 12 Feb 10 - 08:19 PM
GUEST,leeneia 13 Feb 10 - 10:21 AM
GUEST 22 May 13 - 03:30 AM
leeneia 22 May 13 - 09:49 AM
Bettynh 22 May 13 - 01:40 PM
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Subject: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 04:49 PM

Yesterday I went to the Amazon page where Mudcat gets a percentage and I ordered a DVD of the Rider in the Sky, the cowboy singing act. Man, I hope Ranger Doug goes a lot of yodeling on it, because that's what I like best - his superb Alpine yodeling.

Then I had a thought. Was yodeling originally inspired by birdsong? Do a bird's disregard for melody and language underlie yodeling's wild leaps? I've been testing this theory.

1. First, go to this bird site

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/brown_thrasher/id

and go down to 'Typical Voice.' Close your eyes and listen to the brown thrasher.

2. Now go to this site and listen to the yodeling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1oDrPy-XrA

3. Now listen to Vivaldi's Spring, from 36 seconds to 110.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSw7CcAXPWk&feature=related

I think I'm on to something.

What other birds might have inspired yodeling?















2. Then go to

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/brown_thrasher/id

go down the page and click on 'Typical Voice.'


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:04 PM

The mockingbird—mimicking a cowboy.

Or maybe the death cries of a turkey.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:17 PM

Yodelling occurs in a lot of different cultures (listen to Georgian part singing), so it does make sense for it to be inspired by a natural phenomenon.

But why is it almost always men who do it?

Why don´t birds make like birds?


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 09:56 PM

Patsy Montana could yodel up a storm.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 05:31 AM

My parents have several records of Bavarian music (bought during our trip through Germany) and most of the yodeling on them is done by women.

Yodeling here is mostly associated with Tin Pan Alley and radio cowboy songs, so the male dominance is understandable.

Cowboy yodeling, according to some pundits in other threads here, may have derived from Hawaiian yodeling. There was also a big Swiss fad in the latter 1800s. If cowboy yodels derived from animal imitation, the musical models would more likely have been baying wolves. (Or coyyips, but coyotes aren't the most musical bunch. Their band leader would have encouraged them to take up chess club instead.)


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Hamish
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 05:54 AM

Isn't the fact that most people have a "chest voice" and a "head voice" and there's a break between them which is the essence of yodelling. That's going to be exploited in all cultures.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 06:16 AM

That's true, but doesn't explain why yodeling is so little used (in America), and only appears in limited genres.

For that matter, why does America not have a tradition for throat singing (producing over- and undertones)?

And how universal is musical whistling?

But I suppose we should stick to the initial topic.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 11:06 AM

I think it all stems from yodeling down the big white telephone. That is my story and I'm sticking to it:-)

DeG


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 05:55 PM

See also the Colonel Bogey March thread.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 10:56 PM

I think I've found where yodeling came from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=997RTKzc39c&feature=fvw


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 02:13 AM

I've found the true origin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvcxibuf9uk


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 04:28 AM

The Baka Pygmies famously yodel to stunning effect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Xj_oLkRT4

As did the Dezurik Sisters, aka The Cackle Sisters on account of the dazzling virtuosity of their singular cunning, especially with respect of farmyard sounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uvKXEz2V3Q

As for birds, I often wonder what songs we humans sang in the wild - & how close those primal songs remain to our inner-dreaming with respect of music as a whole.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: scouse
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 09:38 AM

Ramblin' Jack Elliot came into my friends house years ago and said "Do ya mind if I wear my Hat in the House?" came the very swift reply from my mates wife.. "Jack you can do anything in this house except Yodel!!"
'nough said.

As Aye,

Phil.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 10:22 AM

I have long thought that cowboy yodeling was an out growth of the field holler used by field hands in the south and the influence of the German immigrants in the Brownsville Texas area. I have no research or academia to support this. Just a suspicion.

Don


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 02:05 PM

So only one person is interested enough in the sounds of music to listen to any of the linked recordings?


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,Guest-Rod
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 05:54 PM

Reminded of a variation on the old muso's gag:
Definition of a gentleman...
Someone who knows how to yodel...

... but doesn't

(Interchangeable with the instrument/technique/genre etc of your choice...)


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 05:57 PM

I've listened, but I still favor other theories, such as the yips, whoops and calls cowboys made to intimidate cattle while herding them. Older, more authentic cowboy songs sometimes include short calls like this—think "whoopi-ti-yi-o" and "hi-oo".

There has never been a lack of animal imitation--of animals of all types, not just fowl--but we can't conclude that there is a causal link between imitating bird calls and yodeling. I suspect that yodeling in general mostly derived simply from vocal experimentation. You can either minimize the break or accentuate it. And a great challenge for the latter is to rapidly alternate across the break with specific musical intervals. Certain syllables make this easier then others--hence, yodeling.

The problem here is that we can only conjecture. No archaological evidence is of the least use. Even written accounts would be apocryphal. "And Moses went upon the mountain, and there God spake to him in the voice of a blackbird. And Moses was awed and humbled. He returned to the people and imparted to them the will of God, in these holy words: Iodele Iu!"

Anyway, you can't raise the topic of yodeling (or banjos, bagpipes or ukuleles) without expecting a fair bit of joking. Deservedly or not, it comes with the territory.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 03:12 PM

Nice to hear your thoughts, Artful. That makes two people who actually listened.

(When I started this thread, I knew there would be brainless remarks by people who are afraid of yodeling because John Wayne never did it.)

I have a true story for you about calling the cattle. A friend of mine grew up on a small farm in SE Kansas. The other farmers called the cattle in with lots of curse words, but her father had a long, drawn-out call of his own.

One day she figured out that he was chanting. "Appro-o-o-o-o-oa-ch, please!" The cows must have liked his polite method, because they always came for the hay or salt he had ready.

Hard to see how that ties in with yodeling, but if you are interested in calls, that is an authentic one.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 08:54 PM

Blickies woulda helped; folks is lazy.

♫ Blickie glowing in the dead of night,
Show us redneck bastards how to sing.
All our lives,
We were only waiting for a mentor on the wing. ♫


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Melissa
Date: 31 Jan 10 - 08:59 PM

"That makes two people who actually listened"

plus the ones who haven't commented?


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 01:38 AM

True.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Melissa
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 01:44 AM

Which dvd did you order, leeneia?


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 11:26 AM

Good question! I remember it was 'used' but probably isn't. It was the cheapest. There are only 5 left. But I can't remember the name.

For those not familiar with Riders in the Sky, here's a video of them.

enjoyable skit

One reason I really enjoy them is that they are so relaxed. Especially Ranger Doug. What form of Zen does he tap to have that air of peaceful joy about him in front of all those strangers?

Can it be that he knows he can out-yodel any of them?
===========
This DVD should add a new element to our (i.e., my husband's) collection of Fred Astaire, Hitchcock and Tremors movies, few of which I can stand to watch clear through.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: olddude
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 11:40 AM

my dad thought it was the greatest art form that ever existed. the old man would drag out his records with slim whitman and some lady doing a song called "he taught me how to yodel"

Use to make me want to drink the laced koolaid ... not that yodeling is bad, it is cool but he would play them over and over and over and over


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 07:31 PM

Kind of like listening to blackbirds, then—a little goes a long way. Pretty soon you wish they'd just get laid already and shut up. But they probably think the same of the rap music incessantly booming from passing cars.

My dog retreats to the farthest corner of the house when I start yodeling—or playing the fiddle. Though I sing one song with a "coyodel" (actually, more of a wolf howl) that used to get him to come up and whine along. Maybe he thought I was in pain. Or keening for a lost pack member. He still gets a little antsy when I sing that one, so my imitation must be unnaturally close.

leeneia: Do hawks divebomb you when you yodel?


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Melissa
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 07:34 PM

funny..my cats hurry in to lay around and purr when I yodel.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 09:22 PM

Maybe they're waiting to attack, as soon as they sight the bird making all that flap.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: kendall
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 10:03 PM

Our own Seamus Kennedy yodels. Where are you, Seamus?

I used to, but when my voice changed it just didn't sound as good.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 10:07 PM

Sorry, I don't do bird yodeling! :>)

Just regular old cowboy yodeling and an occasional attempt at Alpine yodeling.

Not well enough to get nominated for a Grammy.....


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 10:11 PM

I'll let you be the judge, Kendall. Grammy-worthy?

Yodeling Seamus


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: kendall
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 11:07 PM

I was never that good. sniff


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Melissa
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 11:32 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN43-IpA2Lk
CHRISTMAS Santa Claus YODELING 90 yrs ago -yuletide novelty

Description says George Watson is credited with doing the first American Yodel Recording in 1897



This has very little to do with the topic at hand, but being interested in both cylinders and yodeling, it caught my eye.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 01:56 AM

Different cultures mimic different creatures. Alpine yodeling is primarily in immitation of birds. North American yodeling, however, imitates the call of the wolf or the coyote. Similarly, they mimic the cry of the dingo in Australia.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:10 PM

Interesting, Stephen. I'll have to listen for that.

Kendall, thanks for the link to Seamus. Great yodeling and nice audience interest!


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Artful Codger
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 07:38 PM

You can hear a clearer recording (along with many other Watson yodeling songs) at Internet Archive. Thanks for pointing us to that song.

Also check out Mademoiselle Montana's Yodel Heaven (themed blog).


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 10:04 PM

Thanks for the link. That's a remarkable site.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:15 PM

Beautiful. Jimmy was one of my very early influences.
I keep losing my cookie.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:57 PM

Time for an update.

The DVD I ordered is called 'Ranger Doug Rides the Rhythm Range.' Twice now, the seller has sent me a message saying that "oops, they don't actually have it, and I may feel perfectly free to cancel my order and get a handy-dandy refund."

I dug in my heels and didn't cancel. They have quit trying to get me to cancel and now claim they are sending me the DVD, which should arrive in 2 or 3 weeks, give or take. They make it sound like it's coming from somewhere terribly far away, such as a parallel universe.

I also placed an order for a CD which teaches yodeling, but Amazon sent me a curt e-mail saying that they didn't actually have it and were cancelling my order. They didn't come out and say that it had all been a big joke, and I was incredibly naive to actually place the order, but it was implied.

That's the kind of treatment you get when you walk the road less travelled, I suppose.

Meanwhile, I have been having fun practicing yodeling while having a nice warm soak in the bathtub. Ah, the joys of being retired.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 04:07 AM

leenia,
I recommend the Cathy Fink/Mike Wittemore(sp?) "Learn to Yodel" cds and book. I got mine off ebay for about $12.

I was wondering about your dvd today (driving, listening to Riders) and planning to come back and pop this thread up to ask if you got it yet.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: gnu
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:50 AM

Seamus... great stuff... and the "thank you" cracked me up!


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 09:27 AM

No, the DVD hasn't arrived yet, but I've received word that it truly is coming. Apparently the second-hand dealer who thought he had it didn't actually have it, so he had to find another. (It's 'second hand,' but the DVD hasn't even been opened yet.)

Well, actually, here's what probably happened:

1. I ordered the DVD of 'Ranger Doug Rides the Rhythm Range'.

2. An employee went to get it out of stock, read the cover and said "Cowboy music! Yodelling! I didn't know you could buy music like this!" She slips it between her tight sweater and the ring in her belly button.

3. The rest we know. I expect my DVD in 2-3 weeks.

===========
Thanks for the tip on the Cathy Fink CD and book.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 02:33 PM

I try not to think about yodelling too much.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 08:19 PM

I think it's Todd Wittemore(sp)..not Mike.
Sorry


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 10:21 AM

Okay. Thanks, Melissa.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 13 - 03:30 AM

Ranger Doug spoke kindly of my new book YODEL IN HIFI: FROM KITSCH FOLK TO MODERN ELECTRONICA. you can find more info at: http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/4594.htm

there are over 100 yodeler profiles and covers everywhere on earth where yodeling can be heard. It also mentions another 200+ yodelers... inc. Ranger Doug, kenny roberts, bob everhart and many others - who are also given their just due in my earlier book YODEL-AY-EE-OOOO. thank you.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: leeneia
Date: 22 May 13 - 09:49 AM

The sad truth finally emerges. The Ranger Doug CD was a bust for me. It was only about how to play high-pitched guitar rhythms. Feh!

However, I have figured out something important about how to yodel, and it's something that no one has emphasized before. It is that if you plan to yodel, you need to decide ahead of time what your syllables will be. Make up the syllables, then let your voice and your musical mind sail away with the notes.

There's a video on YouTube of Melanie Oesch demonstrating this very thing, showing her 'class' the syllables on a blackboard placed in a beautiful garden.


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Subject: RE: thought about yodeling
From: Bettynh
Date: 22 May 13 - 01:40 PM

Cathy Fink teaching yodeling - to Malasians!


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