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The Great Hope of English Folk

greg stephens 17 Feb 10 - 10:57 AM
Hamish 17 Feb 10 - 11:00 AM
The Borchester Echo 17 Feb 10 - 11:03 AM
theleveller 17 Feb 10 - 11:07 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 17 Feb 10 - 11:20 AM
Jack Blandiver 17 Feb 10 - 11:22 AM
Smedley 17 Feb 10 - 11:24 AM
The Sandman 17 Feb 10 - 11:24 AM
theleveller 17 Feb 10 - 11:29 AM
The Borchester Echo 17 Feb 10 - 11:39 AM
Johnny J 17 Feb 10 - 12:08 PM
Paul Davenport 17 Feb 10 - 12:41 PM
The Sandman 17 Feb 10 - 12:49 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Feb 10 - 12:54 PM
Surreysinger 17 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM
Bert 17 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM
Leadfingers 17 Feb 10 - 01:29 PM
Smedley 17 Feb 10 - 01:38 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 17 Feb 10 - 01:42 PM
VirginiaTam 17 Feb 10 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,AndyC 17 Feb 10 - 01:51 PM
GUEST,AndyC 17 Feb 10 - 01:54 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 17 Feb 10 - 01:55 PM
MikeL2 17 Feb 10 - 02:30 PM
Smedley 17 Feb 10 - 02:37 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 17 Feb 10 - 02:55 PM
Steve Parkes 17 Feb 10 - 04:08 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 17 Feb 10 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,matt milton 17 Feb 10 - 04:47 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Feb 10 - 05:05 PM
TheSnail 17 Feb 10 - 05:11 PM
Tim Leaning 17 Feb 10 - 05:21 PM
greg stephens 17 Feb 10 - 05:46 PM
Dave Sutherland 17 Feb 10 - 05:54 PM
Zany Mouse 17 Feb 10 - 06:03 PM
The Borchester Echo 17 Feb 10 - 06:11 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Feb 10 - 10:44 PM
GUEST,Jon Dudley 18 Feb 10 - 02:40 AM
MGM·Lion 18 Feb 10 - 02:58 AM
theleveller 18 Feb 10 - 03:31 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 18 Feb 10 - 03:35 AM
theleveller 18 Feb 10 - 03:37 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 18 Feb 10 - 03:41 AM
stallion 18 Feb 10 - 03:52 AM
GUEST,padgett 18 Feb 10 - 03:55 AM
GUEST,Guessed 18 Feb 10 - 03:58 AM
Splott Man 18 Feb 10 - 04:04 AM
stallion 18 Feb 10 - 04:37 AM
Richard Bridge 18 Feb 10 - 04:54 AM
MGM·Lion 18 Feb 10 - 05:02 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 18 Feb 10 - 05:02 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 18 Feb 10 - 05:20 AM
greg stephens 18 Feb 10 - 06:08 AM
theleveller 18 Feb 10 - 06:16 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Feb 10 - 06:36 AM
greg stephens 18 Feb 10 - 06:57 AM
TheSnail 18 Feb 10 - 07:00 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Feb 10 - 07:09 AM
Smedley 18 Feb 10 - 08:27 AM
Guy Wolff 18 Feb 10 - 08:28 AM
GUEST,ChrisP 18 Feb 10 - 08:50 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Feb 10 - 09:16 AM
Smedley 18 Feb 10 - 09:53 AM
MikeL2 18 Feb 10 - 10:06 AM
Smedley 18 Feb 10 - 10:09 AM
Leadfingers 18 Feb 10 - 10:13 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Feb 10 - 10:23 AM
theleveller 18 Feb 10 - 10:36 AM
The Sandman 18 Feb 10 - 11:15 AM
Richard Bridge 18 Feb 10 - 12:39 PM
Smedley 18 Feb 10 - 02:01 PM
LesB 18 Feb 10 - 02:14 PM
Banjiman 18 Feb 10 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,Mad Jack Wooley's Dog Captain 18 Feb 10 - 02:31 PM
Guy Wolff 18 Feb 10 - 02:46 PM
Smedley 18 Feb 10 - 03:07 PM
Tootler 18 Feb 10 - 03:08 PM
GUEST 18 Feb 10 - 03:09 PM
Richard Bridge 18 Feb 10 - 03:21 PM
Smedley 18 Feb 10 - 03:26 PM
greg stephens 18 Feb 10 - 06:13 PM
Folkiedave 18 Feb 10 - 07:21 PM
r.padgett 19 Feb 10 - 03:23 AM
SylviaN 19 Feb 10 - 07:25 AM
Dave Sutherland 19 Feb 10 - 07:50 AM
r.padgett 19 Feb 10 - 08:03 AM
theleveller 19 Feb 10 - 08:09 AM
LesB 19 Feb 10 - 08:23 AM
GUEST,Guest Willa 19 Feb 10 - 09:17 AM
Guy Wolff 19 Feb 10 - 10:17 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 20 Feb 10 - 07:09 AM
Guy Wolff 20 Feb 10 - 11:52 AM
Suegorgeous 20 Feb 10 - 03:40 PM
GUEST,eliza c 20 Feb 10 - 04:39 PM
Folkiedave 20 Feb 10 - 04:52 PM
Gibb Sahib 20 Feb 10 - 08:06 PM
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Subject: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 10:57 AM

The BBC(as personified by Jenni Murray on Woman's Hour, anyway) has identified the "Great Hope of English Folk". Anyone care to hazard a guess as to who this might be(don't cheat if you heard the programme, or maybe not till a few guesses have been registered).


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Hamish
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:00 AM

Martin Carthy   ;-)

Nope, dunno. Is this person/are these persons English, or is it a trick question?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:03 AM

Kathryn Williams herself instantly rebuffed this daft notion, saying that she'd never been invited to the Folk Awards anyway.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:07 AM

"Daft" pretty much sums it up.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:20 AM

I do get a bit bored of the presumption by the media that 'folk' must be dead or dying unless it's got a pretty young face that sells records.
The body of material is there, it's been there for a good while and it's not going anywhere in a hurry. It doesn't need 'hope' in terms of pretty faces that sell records - it'll continue to be there irrespective of the vaguaries of popular commercial music trends. So long as people continue to pick up a song or tune and learn it and share it, there's life and hope aplenty.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:22 AM

Amen to that, CS.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:24 AM

I take it, from B.Echo's party-pooping post, that it was Kathryn Williams. Who is hugely talented & rather wonderful but hardly 'folk'. She might live in the same musical street but not in the actual house.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:24 AM

it must be me http://www.dickmiles.comhttp://www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:29 AM

"I do get a bit bored of the presumption by the media that 'folk' must be dead or dying "

But CS, as far as the media's concerned, we're all totally hopeless!

Dick, I'd certainly have opted for you if Diane hadn't spilled the beans.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:39 AM

Woman's Hour has a lengthy and worthy record of promoting women singers of all genres. What KW does is quite nice in a fairly rapidly forgettable way and, besides, she's got a new CD out. Why wouldn't she agree to a high-profile interview with Jenni Murray? She can't write the actual script but she was quick to explain what her music actually is and isn't.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Johnny J
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 12:08 PM

"Great Hope of English Folk".

Ye Gads, how many of those have we had now?


Kathryn Williams,

I've seen her in concert. Nothing to write home about, I'm afraid.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 12:41 PM

Sometimes I wonder if folk music would be better off if the media didn't report/comment on it in any way whatsoever – It survived well enough before radio and TV after all.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 12:49 PM

yes it is a bit like tying a lead weight round someones neck handcuffing them tying their wrists and legs and pushing them in the water and leaving them to drown.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 12:54 PM

For those like me who only vaguely thought they might have heard the name, Wikipedia on Kathryn Williams. I see that Wikipedia calls her a "singer/songwriter". I'm sure I wish her every success, but the connection with being the "Great Hope of English Folk" eludes me for the moment.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Surreysinger
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM

What a title to be saddled with!! I don't envy her. I'm just trying to recall who the last "Great Hope " was ... any conjectures, anybody?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Bert
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM

Now if a pretty young face is what you need.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:29 PM

I would have started this thread , but K W was SO instantly forgettable that I forgot !


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:38 PM

Kathryn W has appeared at the 'Women of Albion' concerts alongside Norma Waterson, June Tabor and Eliza Carthy (and other not-quite-folk women like Sheila Chandra and - yuk, bleugh - Vashti Bunyan). So that might be one source of the admittedly misleading description.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:42 PM

Is the Great Hope for English Folk that it will become as laid back, welcoming and kind as American or Canandian folk?

Sure hope SO! :0)


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:50 PM

"I do get a bit bored of the presumption by the media that 'folk' must be dead or dying "

But CS, as far as the media's concerned, we're all totally hopeless!


The real hope might be here in this email I received today.

Achieving great art for everyone: a consultation

Hello

Firstly may I introduce myself to you. I am the new Director of Arts Council England, South East. I would like to invite you to take part in an important consultation which aims to identify the future priorities for the arts.

The arts have flourished in the last 15 years, and there is now a genuine acceptance that they are part of our fabric as a nation. We want to build on that strength, but in our constantly changing environment, we need to work together to achieve the very best for the arts and opportunities to engage.

Earlier this month we launched our consultation - Achieving great art for everyone – which sets out Arts Council England's understanding of the current landscape, celebrates the success of the arts and identifies areas for the development over the next ten years

We want to hear your thoughts on the way forward. Your views will inform our long term strategic framework and our next set of investment decisions.

To take part in the consultation, please visit www.artscouncil.org.uk/consultation

The consultation will close on 14 April 2010.

We look forward to hearing your views - thank you for your contribution in advance.

Sally Abbott

Director, South East
Arts Council England, South East


How many here would put in their two pence to the Arts Council supporting traditional music and dance?

Maybe I should put this in it's own thread.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,AndyC
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:51 PM

How can the 'great hope' be someone whose career has been going backwards for a decade. I saw her ten years ago and she had a higher profile then than she does now!

But if it isn't KW, then who IS the great (female) hope of English folk?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,AndyC
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:54 PM

And another thing....

Even if you accept that this sort of singer-songwriter can be classed as 'folk' then is KW really better than, say, Thea Gilmore?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:55 PM

Is it...Lily Allen? ;0)


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 02:30 PM

hi

Why is it that here at mudcat the words singer songwriter are used in such a scathing manner ??

Surely even the most traditional of traditional songs was originally written by


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 02:37 PM

And another thing....

Even if you accept that this sort of singer-songwriter can be classed as 'folk' then is KW really better than, say, Thea Gilmore?

=============================================

Immeasurably so.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 02:55 PM

"The real hope might be here in this email I received today."

Yes, much more interesing. Thanks for flagging it up.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 04:08 PM

It's us that's keeping folk alive & well, isn't it? With or without the help of the media.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 04:35 PM

Is it Lady Gaga?   She's weirdly coolily weird...

I think there should be a Lady Gaga Morris Team with headresses like she wore at The Brits last night. :0)


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 04:47 PM

don't see that folk or any other music needs a great hope. seems to be doing fine thanks. in much ruder health, I'd say, than jazz, for instance.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:05 PM

I think a Lady Gaga Morris team might find its underwear a little uncomfortable.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:11 PM

"I wanna take a ride on your Morris stick"


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:21 PM

Hmmmm Great hope doesn't have the same ring to it does it?
maybe that is a phrase that should be dropped completely if it is going to cause offense?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:46 PM

QWell, interesting comments. I am a little sorry that Borchester Echo chose to spoil the thread at the very beginning, but there you go. It is an open forum, we take the rough with the smooth.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:54 PM

"I'm just trying to recall who the last "Great Hope " was"
Sorry, I can't remember but I think I had them in a treble with The Green Party to win the General Election and Darlington to win the European Cup.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 06:03 PM

Wasn't Kate Rusby the last Great Hope?

Rhiannon


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 06:11 PM

Bands bobbing about on the high seas might be accustomed to taking rough with smooth but I fail to see the value in being snide about a throwaway line of stereotypical journalism in a BBC programme otherwise renowned for excellent showcasing of Britain's women musicians. All anyone who missed the transmission needed to do was look at the Woman's Hour webpage to see who it was this time. Obviously it will not be everyone's personal fave every time but to castigate one choice is the right way to go about convincing the production team that it's not worth bothering at all.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 10:44 PM

Of course Jenni Murray, like all such, had her job to do & just came out with the predictable cliche to intro that kind of item ~ mark of a second-rate broadcaster to my mind. Surprised she didn't add 'at this moment in time' while she was about it.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:40 AM

"- mark of a second-rate broadcaster to my mind -"

Quick Michael, don your tin hat and duck below the parapets, I feel a robust defence of Ms.Murray a' comin' on.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:58 AM

I don't disagree, Jon, that she is generally, in fact, a thorough professional; but I do think she slipped rather too readily into cliche on this occasion ~ don't you!: honest, now... We all have our off-moments [except for me, of course...]


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:31 AM

Just as an aside, I have always wondered, in these time of sexual equality, why there is a Women's Hour? I must cofess that I enjoy listening to it when I get the opportunity, but does it constitute some form of positive discrimination - and why isn't there a Men's Hour?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:35 AM

"why isn't there a Men's Hour?"

There is, it's called 'Ice Road Truckers', my bf loves it.. ;-)


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:37 AM

Never heard of that one CS - my mind is already boggling.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:41 AM

Oh, it's very manly - in a 'real men, real trucks' kind of way.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: stallion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:52 AM

OK my take on singer/songwriters, I am really not very good at it and so keep my efforts locked in my own bathroom, never to see the light of day. Trouble is that there is a significant majority who lack any sort of critical judgement of their own material. There are some brilliant ones out there and I am in awe of them, but there are too many that are awful, they should stick to covering better material and doing that well.............I have had my belly full of............"Here's one I wrote when my wife left me"..........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
As for folk music being rescued, mmmmmmm,if it means to bring younger people in to listening and participating in the genre, make it more fun, at the moment I feel that there are to many "figure skaters" and not enough "bopping on ice" it's a bit like "strictly come folk singing" ....if it looks like a ballroom dance it is a ballrooom dance, doesn't matter if it was choreographed yesterday or learnt from aunt bessies grandmothers nannys sister-in-law's great aunt twice removed.
getting back to folk singing and singer songwriters, they are not the same thing although but for the most part sit comfortably with one another until one dominates, sadly we have one session so overwhelmed by the singer/songwriter element that I find it not such an enjoyable event, too many wannabes ............" here's one I wrote when I discovered my first zit".......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz(sorry cheap shot!)
On a lighter note, we have been recording again and there has been a marked deterioration in our voices since the 2005 recordings it moved Martin to comment that "we are improving all the time and if we record in 2015 we may sound just like the men on the field recordings and we can truly say we have made it!"


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:55 AM

WE have all the Great singers we need, they are all out there, they need to be listened to, not a media creation

Where are they ~ in the pubs clubs and events held every day

Folk is not in the singing voice entirely, also ~ it is in the performance and company in which it is performed

Greatness is in the empathy in which the song IS RECEIVED by the assembled company

Nor is it in a few "new" folk songs

We have all the "material" and a wealth of collective human emotions which are the nuts abd bolts of what FOLK is about!

To my mind it is the words that matter ~ guitar and other accompaniment, and indeed a powerful singing voice are secondary ~ I dont need to be shouted at to listen (well not deaf yet)

Such a nice lass that Jenny Murray, has to be she comes from Barnsley

I wonder, did she ever go to the Centenary rooms folk club in the Civic

Ray Padgett


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:58 AM

From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:46 PM

QWell, interesting comments. I am a little sorry that Borchester Echo chose to spoil the thread at the very beginning, but there you go. It is an open forum, we take the rough with the smooth.

------------------------------------------------------

Yes, what a shame she stepped in to stop your bear baiting.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Splott Man
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:04 AM

It's sad to see people bad-mouthing a musician who was unfortunately saddled with an unwelcome description.

OK, so you're not a fan, but there's no need to be rude about her.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: stallion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:37 AM

oh, for the record, I wasn't commenting on the lady in question, not heard or seen her so i am not qualified to comment, it was a general overview of what I see and hear. Couldn't agree more with Ray about the songs.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:54 AM

There are lots of "Men's Hour" programmes

Hour after hour after endless moronic hour of association football
Anything on the "Dave" channel
Top Gear
The C5 equivalent with Tiff Needell
All the things about big machinery, trains, and steeplejacks and chimneys
All the things about extreme exploration
All the "reality" things about police chasing bad drivers, cleaning hoodlums off the streets, etc
Cage fighting (I gather from a "bloke" that my daughter's ex-boyfriend Dan is now quite famous)

I'm sure there are thousands more.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:02 AM

But if it is asserted that footie progs, motoring progs, trains·steeplejacks·chimneys, police/bad‚drivers·hoodlums, cage·fighting (which I gather women are into now anyway) are to be regarded as "MEN'S" programmes ~~~ isn't all that just as 'sexist' as having a Women's Hour anyhow? If these are men's interests, why shouldn't there be a programme specifically geared to women's interests?; the point having thus been established that such 'interests' don't always have to be either shared or identical.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:02 AM

Is it Florence, and her Machine? I think she's smashing, and she'd do GREAT stuff for folk music! :0)


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:20 AM

"the point having thus been established that such 'interests' don't always have to be either shared or identical."

Umm, it was a totally tongue in cheek comment - nothing more. Not intended seriously!


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:08 AM

Very strange comment a post or two back, to the effect that Borchester Echo stepped in to stop my bear baiting. Who or what am I meant to be baiting? I started a (I hope) amusing thread, "guess who Jenni Murray picked as the great hope of English folk". And I asked people not to spoil the thread by revealing the answer, so that readers would have a chance to guess. Two posts i, said Borchester Echo barged in and revealed the answer. Where was the baiting? Who was the bear?
We get this in quizzes: quiz setters take great pains to type up a quiz, and they ask people doing the quiz to PM the answwers in, dont put them in the thread, so that others have a chance to think. And lo and hehold, some clever dick has to dash in a give the answer on the open thread. Sad. (Well, sad if done deliberately, as it was here apparently).


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:16 AM

"Umm, it was a totally tongue in cheek comment - nothing more. Not intended seriously!"

Exactly!


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:36 AM

Woman's Hour has long featured a strand showcasing women musicians, especially when they have a tour or CD to promote. People doubtless look on the programme's webpage to see whose turn it is, because most people (not just those in boats and / or seagulls bobbing on the ocean) know how to use the internet, and they listen or not accordingly.

It is not, thus, some kind of secret who will be on the programme, nor is it a surprise that it it scriptwriters not presenters who determine what is said in introductions. It is not useful to publicly criticise the BBC just because you don't personally agree with the inclusion of one guest. A far more constructive course of action would be to email Jill Burridge thanking her for her sterling work in continuing to showcase women musicians while pointing out that "f*lk" doesn't actually need "Great Hopes". Without such positive feedback the editor may well decide that the game isn't worth the candle.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:57 AM

I knew perfectly well who had been on the programme, Borchester Echo. I had just listened to it, as was clear from my post I imagine. I didnt criticise the choice, I made a point of not mentioning anything about the choice. I was setting a guessing game. You decided, for your own best reasons, to spoil it. Quite why, I can't imagine.
I am delighted that Woman's Hour publicises musicians. That is one of the reasons I am an avid listener.And I positively worship Jenni Murray.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:00 AM

Just done a bit of checking and, for the record, what Jenni Murray actually said was "Kathryn Williams has been described as 'the great hope of English folk'". Who she was quoting, we may never know.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:09 AM

I was setting a guessing game

What on earth for? It's publicly available information. No, what you were doing was sneering at unfunny scripting. Not clever.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:27 AM

It looked like a guessing game to me.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:28 AM

Greg thanks for starting this thread . i had not heard of this young person .Ive had a look over at youtube .   I am shore Newcstle must be very proud of her . I would love to hear of any up and comming Traditional young people . Whos out there ?? All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,ChrisP
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:50 AM

It looked like a guessing game to me too. I didn't notice any implied criticism of anybody in it. Shame Greg has to get one in the ear for it.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:16 AM

Kathryn Williams has been out there for ever, at least a decade. She gets a slot in a well-established strand on a flagship, mainstream radio programme, largely because she has a CD to promote. No surprise. No scope for a "guessing game". Just minimal research.

What we get is predictable, puerile, sexist, neandertal carping both of the under-researched script and of the character and scope of the programme itself. Typical blokey Mudcat. Should Woman's Hour decide to drop the slot because of the mindless carping, I suppose you'll fall back on whingeing at the BBC for ignoring whatever music YOU think should be played.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:53 AM

Borchie (as I am well aware I shouldn't call you), the 'blokey' stuff kicked off well into the thread. And i agree with you that a lot of it was uncalled for.   At the beginning this thread was, however underwhelming this seems to you, a guessing game which asked people to reflect on which artists they thought might have been given such a label.

You are right, 'minimal research' could have been undertaken to solve the mystery. Are you also given to approaching audience members waiting to go and see 'The Mousetrap' and telling them who the murderer is ? Some people like to have fun.

You must remember fun - you were probably there the day that Ewan MacColl banned it.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:06 AM

hi lizzie

<" Is it Lady Gaga? ">   lol

Now there's a thought !!

But The Lady is certainly not GaGa...lol

Regards

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:09 AM

I think Lady Gaga should do a duet with June Tabor.

'Poker Face' should suit them both.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:13 AM

Smedley - I dont thimk Ms Echo would recognise 'FUN' if it jumped up and bit her Bum !!


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:23 AM

I don't think Mr Silver would recognise how to promote music successfully in the media if someone broke the words into bite-size syallables and inserted hyphens. "Fun" it is not, but an aspect of the business.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:36 AM

"predictable, puerile, sexist, neandertal carping both of the under-researched script and of the character and scope of the programme itself. Typical blokey Mudcat"

Oooer! Actually, Woman's Hour just seems to me to be rather 'quaint', harking back to days when 'the little woman' was a housewife and mother. It brings back childhood memories of Listen with Mother, Mrs Dale's Diary, and The Archers when it was 'an everyday story of country folk'. Must stop sucking my thumb now.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 11:15 AM

Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Guy Wolff - PM
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:28 AM

Greg thanks for starting this thread . i had not heard of this young person .Ive had a look over at youtube .   I am shore Newcstle must be very proud of her . I would love to hear of any up and comming Traditional young people . Whos out there ?? All the best , Guy
well that fellow Guy Wolff is not so bad,he plays a mean banjo,throws a few pots[but not at gigs]and has a nice smile


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:39 PM

The few things I looked at on Youboob seemed to be vary far from traditional content.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:01 PM

The few things I looked at on Youboob seemed to be vary far from traditional content.

----------------------------------------

Indeed, which is why the 'folk' label rather sloppily slapped on her forehead by the BBC has been so discussed. But she has sung at concerts with unarguable folky folks and (if this wasn't almost always a negative phrase) is a kind of fellow traveller.

And she sang the best version of the much-covered and frequently-slaughtered 'First Time Ever I Saw Your Face' I have been privileged to hear.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: LesB
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:14 PM

At one time I thought that Kate Rusby's ex duo partner Kathryn Roberts might have been the GWH. Better singer & better looking.
Cheers
Les


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:15 PM


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,Mad Jack Wooley's Dog Captain
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:31 PM

Woof


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:46 PM

So on an optimistic note <><>>< The intent at the beginning of this, I thought, was to guess at great new Traditional musicians that had been overlooked by the radio show .. Anyone have some nice things to say about young British musicians they love for what they are doing .. I found Julie Fowllis via Bruce Molski on YT.. Incredible . How about the young woman who plays Nothrumberland pipes and fiddle .She may get a bit showy on stage but her playing is wonderful . Ms Tickle is it ?? Im over here in New England very interested in whom you all Love .Isn't that a more interesting place to take this thread .. All the very best to all here . By the way thanks Good Soldier Schweik for the very kind words . I do wish I could afford a few months a year in Briton . I am such a fan of the history of music and crafts .

Yours Guy


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:07 PM

OK, Guy, of the current younger crop of British female folk singers, I would recommend:

Nancy Wallace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg5RZ6PJ8bk
(though there is some unfortunate audience action!!)

Bella Hardy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpNUHgEYB2Q&feature=related

Ruth Notman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz5bjXq8-z4&feature=related

These aren't the greatest quality recordings but you should get an idea of how they sound.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:08 PM

Guy Wolff, I assume you mean Kathryn Tickell. A very fine player of Northumbrian Pipes and Fiddle.

She was partly responsible for reawakening my interest in folk music. I bought one of her CD's on spec and was wowed.

She is firmly rooted in the Northumbrian tradition but has also explored new avenues and taken the Northumbrian pipes to a wider audience.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:09 PM

Certainly recommend Bella Hardy

You can find Anna Shannon and Wendy Arrowsmith on you tube


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:21 PM

If you want doom-laden traditional songs and can put up with the piano, I recommend Karine Polwart. Scottish, not English, and also does non-trad stuff.

LesB - shame on you. What has the appearance of a singer got to do with their musical ability?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:26 PM

Oh, my links failed to 'take'. C'est la vie.

And yes, Karine Polwart is wonderful.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:13 PM

Borchester Echo makes a very bizarre suggestion that I should not set guessing games because the answer is publicly available. As anyone on Mudcat will know, I often set quizzes. Now, the answers to the questions are publicly available. Of course they are. What I can't follow is, why should that prevent me from asking the questions, for other people's interest and amusement? This sort of thing makes it so difficult for outsiders to take Mudcat seriously. I have set quizzes all over the place, for BBC radio programmes, for fRoots forum, for pub quiz leagues. This is definitely the first time anybody has said you shouldn't do it because the answers are publicly available. And dear B Echo obviously feels so wound up about it that (s)he felt it necessary to soboatge the guessing by giving the answer before anyone could guess. What on earth is this about? Am I missing something?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:21 PM

I wonder, did she ever go to the Centenary rooms folk club

I seem to remember she went to Folk Clubs in Hull. I would also be surprised if she didn't go the the University Folk CLub at that time - very strong with some great guests.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 03:23 AM

Did she Dave!

You there too eh?

Good chance that she did go to the very famous folk club in Barnsley too

She would be what around 60y.o (if I might ask?)

Ray


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: SylviaN
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 07:25 AM

To throw in a couple of other names -

Jackie Oates
Lucy Ward (especially as she had turquoise hair last time she came to our house)
Sam Lee - who was absolutely wonderful last night at the Derby Gaol FC.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 07:50 AM

I'll agree with your final entry Sylvia and Lucy sang well from the floor at our place back in November.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 08:03 AM

So all is not done yet!

Good to hear new younger singers, although there are still one or two older singers on the go!!

The 2:1 ratio young females to males upcoming may be slightly out of kilter (merely suggested from Sylvia's posting)

I think it does take males a bit longer to sort out their repertoire

There are, I think, though, likely to be more mature male singers than females at clubs currently

Ray


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 08:09 AM

"Lucy Ward (especially as she had turquoise hair last time she came to our house)"

Lucy is a brilliant as her hair - which was pink at The Rock a couple of weeks ago.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: LesB
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 08:23 AM

Richard Bridge said..."LesB - shame on you. What has the appearance of a singer got to do with their musical ability? "

None whatsoever. I can dream can't I?
Cheers
Les


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,Guest Willa
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 09:17 AM

Post above was me; need to reset my cookie.
Add Ewan McClennan, to even up the score.

http://www.myspace.com/ewanmclennan


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 10:17 PM

Thanks for the list of people to search on the net . This will be great fun for me and I am very thankful for the information .

I loved Richard Bridge's quote : If you want doom-laden traditional songs and can put up with the piano, I recommend Karine Polwart.      

I love doom laden traditional songs . Remember we have a lot of sun and vitamin B complex here in New England .No worries . Thanks to all for the ideas .. Yours Guy


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 07:09 AM

""The real hope might be here in this email I received today."

Yes, much more interesing. Thanks for flagging it up.
""

I just had a swift look through this, and I'm sorry to say that it apopears to be the mixture as before.

The "Arts" that must be defended, promoted, and shoved down the throats of the public, are the usual suspects, Orchestral and other Classical music, Theatre, and Ballet.

Folk is mentioned just once, under the heading of other genres and amateur music.

So no likelihood of any support there, except of course that we don't have to worry about the price of concert tickets rising to the point where you need to be a senior civil servant, a multinational CEO, or a member of Parliament, to afford one.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 11:52 AM

Thanks Willa . I am a very happy new fan for Ewan .. He is really wonderful . If he has not toured the US yet it needs to happen .. Thanks for this great bit of HEADS UP .. Yours Guy


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 03:40 PM

Was just about to salute Smedley for his post re fun etc... then he took that sideswipe at June... !!

Greg - nope, you got it pretty much in one there, I do believe...


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 04:39 PM

it's me
x e


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 04:52 PM


it's me
x e


Seconded!


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 08:06 PM

It's OK, greg, the thread was still fun anyways!


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