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The Great Hope of English Folk

greg stephens 17 Feb 10 - 10:57 AM
Hamish 17 Feb 10 - 11:00 AM
The Borchester Echo 17 Feb 10 - 11:03 AM
theleveller 17 Feb 10 - 11:07 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 17 Feb 10 - 11:20 AM
Jack Blandiver 17 Feb 10 - 11:22 AM
Smedley 17 Feb 10 - 11:24 AM
The Sandman 17 Feb 10 - 11:24 AM
theleveller 17 Feb 10 - 11:29 AM
The Borchester Echo 17 Feb 10 - 11:39 AM
Johnny J 17 Feb 10 - 12:08 PM
Paul Davenport 17 Feb 10 - 12:41 PM
The Sandman 17 Feb 10 - 12:49 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Feb 10 - 12:54 PM
Surreysinger 17 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM
Bert 17 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM
Leadfingers 17 Feb 10 - 01:29 PM
Smedley 17 Feb 10 - 01:38 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 17 Feb 10 - 01:42 PM
VirginiaTam 17 Feb 10 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,AndyC 17 Feb 10 - 01:51 PM
GUEST,AndyC 17 Feb 10 - 01:54 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 17 Feb 10 - 01:55 PM
MikeL2 17 Feb 10 - 02:30 PM
Smedley 17 Feb 10 - 02:37 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 17 Feb 10 - 02:55 PM
Steve Parkes 17 Feb 10 - 04:08 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 17 Feb 10 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,matt milton 17 Feb 10 - 04:47 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Feb 10 - 05:05 PM
TheSnail 17 Feb 10 - 05:11 PM
Tim Leaning 17 Feb 10 - 05:21 PM
greg stephens 17 Feb 10 - 05:46 PM
Dave Sutherland 17 Feb 10 - 05:54 PM
Zany Mouse 17 Feb 10 - 06:03 PM
The Borchester Echo 17 Feb 10 - 06:11 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Feb 10 - 10:44 PM
GUEST,Jon Dudley 18 Feb 10 - 02:40 AM
MGM·Lion 18 Feb 10 - 02:58 AM
theleveller 18 Feb 10 - 03:31 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 18 Feb 10 - 03:35 AM
theleveller 18 Feb 10 - 03:37 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 18 Feb 10 - 03:41 AM
stallion 18 Feb 10 - 03:52 AM
GUEST,padgett 18 Feb 10 - 03:55 AM
GUEST,Guessed 18 Feb 10 - 03:58 AM
Splott Man 18 Feb 10 - 04:04 AM
stallion 18 Feb 10 - 04:37 AM
Richard Bridge 18 Feb 10 - 04:54 AM
MGM·Lion 18 Feb 10 - 05:02 AM
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Subject: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 10:57 AM

The BBC(as personified by Jenni Murray on Woman's Hour, anyway) has identified the "Great Hope of English Folk". Anyone care to hazard a guess as to who this might be(don't cheat if you heard the programme, or maybe not till a few guesses have been registered).


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Hamish
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:00 AM

Martin Carthy   ;-)

Nope, dunno. Is this person/are these persons English, or is it a trick question?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:03 AM

Kathryn Williams herself instantly rebuffed this daft notion, saying that she'd never been invited to the Folk Awards anyway.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:07 AM

"Daft" pretty much sums it up.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:20 AM

I do get a bit bored of the presumption by the media that 'folk' must be dead or dying unless it's got a pretty young face that sells records.
The body of material is there, it's been there for a good while and it's not going anywhere in a hurry. It doesn't need 'hope' in terms of pretty faces that sell records - it'll continue to be there irrespective of the vaguaries of popular commercial music trends. So long as people continue to pick up a song or tune and learn it and share it, there's life and hope aplenty.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:22 AM

Amen to that, CS.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:24 AM

I take it, from B.Echo's party-pooping post, that it was Kathryn Williams. Who is hugely talented & rather wonderful but hardly 'folk'. She might live in the same musical street but not in the actual house.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:24 AM

it must be me http://www.dickmiles.comhttp://www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:29 AM

"I do get a bit bored of the presumption by the media that 'folk' must be dead or dying "

But CS, as far as the media's concerned, we're all totally hopeless!

Dick, I'd certainly have opted for you if Diane hadn't spilled the beans.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:39 AM

Woman's Hour has a lengthy and worthy record of promoting women singers of all genres. What KW does is quite nice in a fairly rapidly forgettable way and, besides, she's got a new CD out. Why wouldn't she agree to a high-profile interview with Jenni Murray? She can't write the actual script but she was quick to explain what her music actually is and isn't.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Johnny J
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 12:08 PM

"Great Hope of English Folk".

Ye Gads, how many of those have we had now?


Kathryn Williams,

I've seen her in concert. Nothing to write home about, I'm afraid.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 12:41 PM

Sometimes I wonder if folk music would be better off if the media didn't report/comment on it in any way whatsoever – It survived well enough before radio and TV after all.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 12:49 PM

yes it is a bit like tying a lead weight round someones neck handcuffing them tying their wrists and legs and pushing them in the water and leaving them to drown.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 12:54 PM

For those like me who only vaguely thought they might have heard the name, Wikipedia on Kathryn Williams. I see that Wikipedia calls her a "singer/songwriter". I'm sure I wish her every success, but the connection with being the "Great Hope of English Folk" eludes me for the moment.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Surreysinger
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM

What a title to be saddled with!! I don't envy her. I'm just trying to recall who the last "Great Hope " was ... any conjectures, anybody?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Bert
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM

Now if a pretty young face is what you need.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:29 PM

I would have started this thread , but K W was SO instantly forgettable that I forgot !


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:38 PM

Kathryn W has appeared at the 'Women of Albion' concerts alongside Norma Waterson, June Tabor and Eliza Carthy (and other not-quite-folk women like Sheila Chandra and - yuk, bleugh - Vashti Bunyan). So that might be one source of the admittedly misleading description.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:42 PM

Is the Great Hope for English Folk that it will become as laid back, welcoming and kind as American or Canandian folk?

Sure hope SO! :0)


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:50 PM

"I do get a bit bored of the presumption by the media that 'folk' must be dead or dying "

But CS, as far as the media's concerned, we're all totally hopeless!


The real hope might be here in this email I received today.

Achieving great art for everyone: a consultation

Hello

Firstly may I introduce myself to you. I am the new Director of Arts Council England, South East. I would like to invite you to take part in an important consultation which aims to identify the future priorities for the arts.

The arts have flourished in the last 15 years, and there is now a genuine acceptance that they are part of our fabric as a nation. We want to build on that strength, but in our constantly changing environment, we need to work together to achieve the very best for the arts and opportunities to engage.

Earlier this month we launched our consultation - Achieving great art for everyone – which sets out Arts Council England's understanding of the current landscape, celebrates the success of the arts and identifies areas for the development over the next ten years

We want to hear your thoughts on the way forward. Your views will inform our long term strategic framework and our next set of investment decisions.

To take part in the consultation, please visit www.artscouncil.org.uk/consultation

The consultation will close on 14 April 2010.

We look forward to hearing your views - thank you for your contribution in advance.

Sally Abbott

Director, South East
Arts Council England, South East


How many here would put in their two pence to the Arts Council supporting traditional music and dance?

Maybe I should put this in it's own thread.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,AndyC
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:51 PM

How can the 'great hope' be someone whose career has been going backwards for a decade. I saw her ten years ago and she had a higher profile then than she does now!

But if it isn't KW, then who IS the great (female) hope of English folk?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,AndyC
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:54 PM

And another thing....

Even if you accept that this sort of singer-songwriter can be classed as 'folk' then is KW really better than, say, Thea Gilmore?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 01:55 PM

Is it...Lily Allen? ;0)


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 02:30 PM

hi

Why is it that here at mudcat the words singer songwriter are used in such a scathing manner ??

Surely even the most traditional of traditional songs was originally written by


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Smedley
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 02:37 PM

And another thing....

Even if you accept that this sort of singer-songwriter can be classed as 'folk' then is KW really better than, say, Thea Gilmore?

=============================================

Immeasurably so.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 02:55 PM

"The real hope might be here in this email I received today."

Yes, much more interesing. Thanks for flagging it up.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 04:08 PM

It's us that's keeping folk alive & well, isn't it? With or without the help of the media.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 04:35 PM

Is it Lady Gaga?   She's weirdly coolily weird...

I think there should be a Lady Gaga Morris Team with headresses like she wore at The Brits last night. :0)


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 04:47 PM

don't see that folk or any other music needs a great hope. seems to be doing fine thanks. in much ruder health, I'd say, than jazz, for instance.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:05 PM

I think a Lady Gaga Morris team might find its underwear a little uncomfortable.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:11 PM

"I wanna take a ride on your Morris stick"


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:21 PM

Hmmmm Great hope doesn't have the same ring to it does it?
maybe that is a phrase that should be dropped completely if it is going to cause offense?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:46 PM

QWell, interesting comments. I am a little sorry that Borchester Echo chose to spoil the thread at the very beginning, but there you go. It is an open forum, we take the rough with the smooth.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:54 PM

"I'm just trying to recall who the last "Great Hope " was"
Sorry, I can't remember but I think I had them in a treble with The Green Party to win the General Election and Darlington to win the European Cup.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 06:03 PM

Wasn't Kate Rusby the last Great Hope?

Rhiannon


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 06:11 PM

Bands bobbing about on the high seas might be accustomed to taking rough with smooth but I fail to see the value in being snide about a throwaway line of stereotypical journalism in a BBC programme otherwise renowned for excellent showcasing of Britain's women musicians. All anyone who missed the transmission needed to do was look at the Woman's Hour webpage to see who it was this time. Obviously it will not be everyone's personal fave every time but to castigate one choice is the right way to go about convincing the production team that it's not worth bothering at all.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 10:44 PM

Of course Jenni Murray, like all such, had her job to do & just came out with the predictable cliche to intro that kind of item ~ mark of a second-rate broadcaster to my mind. Surprised she didn't add 'at this moment in time' while she was about it.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:40 AM

"- mark of a second-rate broadcaster to my mind -"

Quick Michael, don your tin hat and duck below the parapets, I feel a robust defence of Ms.Murray a' comin' on.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:58 AM

I don't disagree, Jon, that she is generally, in fact, a thorough professional; but I do think she slipped rather too readily into cliche on this occasion ~ don't you!: honest, now... We all have our off-moments [except for me, of course...]


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:31 AM

Just as an aside, I have always wondered, in these time of sexual equality, why there is a Women's Hour? I must cofess that I enjoy listening to it when I get the opportunity, but does it constitute some form of positive discrimination - and why isn't there a Men's Hour?


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:35 AM

"why isn't there a Men's Hour?"

There is, it's called 'Ice Road Truckers', my bf loves it.. ;-)


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:37 AM

Never heard of that one CS - my mind is already boggling.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:41 AM

Oh, it's very manly - in a 'real men, real trucks' kind of way.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: stallion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:52 AM

OK my take on singer/songwriters, I am really not very good at it and so keep my efforts locked in my own bathroom, never to see the light of day. Trouble is that there is a significant majority who lack any sort of critical judgement of their own material. There are some brilliant ones out there and I am in awe of them, but there are too many that are awful, they should stick to covering better material and doing that well.............I have had my belly full of............"Here's one I wrote when my wife left me"..........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
As for folk music being rescued, mmmmmmm,if it means to bring younger people in to listening and participating in the genre, make it more fun, at the moment I feel that there are to many "figure skaters" and not enough "bopping on ice" it's a bit like "strictly come folk singing" ....if it looks like a ballroom dance it is a ballrooom dance, doesn't matter if it was choreographed yesterday or learnt from aunt bessies grandmothers nannys sister-in-law's great aunt twice removed.
getting back to folk singing and singer songwriters, they are not the same thing although but for the most part sit comfortably with one another until one dominates, sadly we have one session so overwhelmed by the singer/songwriter element that I find it not such an enjoyable event, too many wannabes ............" here's one I wrote when I discovered my first zit".......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz(sorry cheap shot!)
On a lighter note, we have been recording again and there has been a marked deterioration in our voices since the 2005 recordings it moved Martin to comment that "we are improving all the time and if we record in 2015 we may sound just like the men on the field recordings and we can truly say we have made it!"


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:55 AM

WE have all the Great singers we need, they are all out there, they need to be listened to, not a media creation

Where are they ~ in the pubs clubs and events held every day

Folk is not in the singing voice entirely, also ~ it is in the performance and company in which it is performed

Greatness is in the empathy in which the song IS RECEIVED by the assembled company

Nor is it in a few "new" folk songs

We have all the "material" and a wealth of collective human emotions which are the nuts abd bolts of what FOLK is about!

To my mind it is the words that matter ~ guitar and other accompaniment, and indeed a powerful singing voice are secondary ~ I dont need to be shouted at to listen (well not deaf yet)

Such a nice lass that Jenny Murray, has to be she comes from Barnsley

I wonder, did she ever go to the Centenary rooms folk club in the Civic

Ray Padgett


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:58 AM

From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 05:46 PM

QWell, interesting comments. I am a little sorry that Borchester Echo chose to spoil the thread at the very beginning, but there you go. It is an open forum, we take the rough with the smooth.

------------------------------------------------------

Yes, what a shame she stepped in to stop your bear baiting.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Splott Man
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:04 AM

It's sad to see people bad-mouthing a musician who was unfortunately saddled with an unwelcome description.

OK, so you're not a fan, but there's no need to be rude about her.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: stallion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:37 AM

oh, for the record, I wasn't commenting on the lady in question, not heard or seen her so i am not qualified to comment, it was a general overview of what I see and hear. Couldn't agree more with Ray about the songs.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:54 AM

There are lots of "Men's Hour" programmes

Hour after hour after endless moronic hour of association football
Anything on the "Dave" channel
Top Gear
The C5 equivalent with Tiff Needell
All the things about big machinery, trains, and steeplejacks and chimneys
All the things about extreme exploration
All the "reality" things about police chasing bad drivers, cleaning hoodlums off the streets, etc
Cage fighting (I gather from a "bloke" that my daughter's ex-boyfriend Dan is now quite famous)

I'm sure there are thousands more.


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Subject: RE: The Great Hope of English Folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:02 AM

But if it is asserted that footie progs, motoring progs, trains·steeplejacks·chimneys, police/bad‚drivers·hoodlums, cage·fighting (which I gather women are into now anyway) are to be regarded as "MEN'S" programmes ~~~ isn't all that just as 'sexist' as having a Women's Hour anyhow? If these are men's interests, why shouldn't there be a programme specifically geared to women's interests?; the point having thus been established that such 'interests' don't always have to be either shared or identical.


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