Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Smedley
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 05:15 AM

Yes, and that I do like.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 04:19 AM

Of course Show of Hands do play quite a few traditional songs, it's just that no one usually starts an argument about those.

The Keys of Canterbury

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: OlgaJ
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 03:56 PM

'The danger with all of this is that young people will be discouraged from nuturing an interest in traditional music and no one will carry all the fantastic stories and tunes on to the next generation of folk enthusiasts. Potentially, the musical genre that I love so much might die out.

In summary, whether or not you like Show of Hands, they shouldn't be criticised for raising the profile of folk music and reaching out to new audiences. In my humble opinion - Keep up the good work Steve and Phil!'

Guest Laurence - well said, we need to hear young voices. Sorry it has taken so long to get to post but I have had to wade through the above and I don't spend all day every day on Mudcat! I expected the fur to fly on this one a lot sooner.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Smedley
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 02:11 PM

KP, that was a very perceptive post about SoH. I've never really 'got them' before but you have hit the nail on the head by pinpointing them as English almost-alt-country. Non-folk music for rural white folks.

To be honest, their music still doesn't really flaot my boat, but I now have a slot to put them in which makes sense & which helps to explain their appeal.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 11:19 AM

Should that be MCC and Duke Levine on guitar?

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 09:18 AM

Saw MCP at the Lyric Theatre Hammersmith in late 1999 - DM on drums, Duke Devine on guitar - a wonderful evening.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,synbyn
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 06:15 AM

Thank goodness for KP's redirection.... yes, those are the songs more worth listening to, and it's a sad reflection on the airwaves that songs like AIG are seen as viewable whereas the more subtle and persuasive songs are not. Soundbites & slogans sell. Any country artist, though, has the jukebox songs and then their more interesting material tucked away... think of Mary Chapin Carpenter's This Shirt etc... so more power to SoH's elbows...

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,nickp (cookielessat work)
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:09 AM

Nice one KP. Some good thoughts there.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 04:54 AM

Well, Phil referred to the Pigeonholing of music in the UK (a sad thing) and he's so right. It's great for creating multi-pontifications!!!

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Kampervan
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 03:12 AM

I think that I'd go along with most of what 'Guest - KP' says.

SoH don't call themselves 'folk' performers,I think that they are producing music which has a wider appeal and, yes, is more commercial; but which still draws on traditional music and,in some cases, comments on modern society.

Nothing wrong with that IMHO

K/van

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,KP
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:11 PM

I feel a bit sad that it seems almost impossible to have a rational discussion of SoH on Mudcat but I'll try to bring it back to the music.

My feeling about SoH is that a) its not folk b) its not trying to be. Steve Knightley is trying to do something really interesting. He's trying to write songs about what it is to live,love, and work in a rural environment, at a time when virtually all pop/rock music is heavily 'urban'.

In America you have songs about rural life: sometimes sentimental, sometimes anecdotal or story-telling songs, usually beautifully sung, and with some of the edges smoothed by more passing chords and harmonic shifts (middle eights) than you get in most folk music. Its called country or alt-country if its rougher and loses the sequins. And the best alt-country isn't a million miles from what is termed folk music in America, and many of its performers will sing folk/traditional songs (Steve Earle?).

What throws people in Britain is there hasn't been such a thing as 'English alt-country' - there are lots of bands playing American country or Americana, but they're not playing or writing about the experience of English rural life. I had a similar discussion with the guys from the late lamented Tanglefoot, who are/have been playing 'Canadian alt-country' in many ways.

For me the best Steve Knightley songs are not his 'rants'(as he describes them) like Country Life or Roots, or his love songs, but his 'narrative' or 'story' songs. You might almost call them ballads except that would be too confusing! On AIG the example is 'Napoli' the song about the modern day chancers taking things off the container ship, who Knightley compares to the Wreckers of the 18th century. On Witness, there is 'The Dive' a story about a man nearly losing his son as they dive for shellfish. On 'Country Life' perhaps my favourite is 'Red Diesel' a song describing the type of country dweller who 'puts his money in a pocket and never in a bank' and who 'said he sang a folk song once but he didn't inhale'.

For people like me who were brought up in the country, and for my brothers who still live and work there, these songs have a ring of truth to them. Are they true stories? It doesn't matter. But you can hear about 'Terry' in Red Diesel and think 'I know a bloke just like that, I wondered if it's based on him?' And quite a few people have tried to identify the yob in Yeovil Town 'a nightmare swaying on his feet, smelling of glue and beer...' And Tanglefoot go into similar ground in their song 'When Dad and Uncle Archie Lost the Farm'

So I'd encourage all to not argue, get past the 'its not folk' bit and listen to the songs!
Cheers to all.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: stallion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:01 PM

mmmmmmmmmm this looks like a three way verbal catfight, stay out lads!

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:16 PM

Excellent segment in the programme. Nice to hear such articulate and educated folks on public broadcasting.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:10 PM

Thanks for the link Diane. i-Player's not my greatest suit. :-)

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:07 PM

The tune for "Country Life" seems to be a knock-off of Steve Earle's "Copperhead Road". Earle makes it more interesting.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 01:46 PM

I have explained this to you: it is not my job to write about them. They have staff for that. And obviously great PR people, who do things like getting them onto BBC Breakfast telly. Because that's their job.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 01:36 PM

The fucking well WRITE about their music and get OFFFFFFFFFFFFF my back, Joan!!!!

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:47 PM

Since when does finding someone unpleasant equate with hating them? They clearly found your attentions unpleasant when Phil wrote his message to you. I never said anyone hated you.

More to the point, it's really not about you. But - oh, surprise! - here's another thread becoming all about Lizzie Cornish instead of being about Show of Hands...

and you wonder why they get pissed off.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:41 PM

I know, but given the subject matter of the song and interview perhaps the comment was a little......unguarded?



BTW, I'm not having a go at them (I have immense respect for anyone who can make a decent living out of folk or even Acoustic Roots Music) but I did just cringe slightly at that answer.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:36 PM

More brass EACH, presumably.
Miranda, of course, doesn't take a fee as being onstage with the "boysies" is payment enough.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:32 PM

Was the bit where they say you can make more money as a duo (rather than a full band)"irony"?

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:29 PM

I seem to recall that the Thatch had that translated into Cornish-Humpty-Dumpty speak.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:17 PM

As me old shipmate Captain Francis used to say,

"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope."

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:00 PM

"I never said anyone hated you. I said they had made it clear that they didn't want you going on about them, causing scraps and rows and distracting people from their music."


"My newfound friendship with Show of Hands? Well, that probably was a bit more to do with you - Steve e-mailed me to apologise for the abuse I was getting from you on their behalf. It soon became apparent, not least from Phil's public message (which really was from him, no matter how many quote marks you put round his name), that they found you as unpleasant as I do, and your attentions not a little worrying. I guess you could say we bonded."


I'm sure you will all continue to bond extremely well.

And I hope now that you no longer feel the desire to 'stick pins in your eyes rather than listen to their music' as you once said, although, personally, I no longer give a f*ck.

Thank you.

And now, back to the BBC and SOH.   And it's really quite surreal seeing Diane, for the second time ever, puttng a link in to their music. It's brought a Cheshire Cat grin to my face...and the word...'hypocr...' is forming on my lips, but I just remembered her Show of Hands knickers..so I'll let it rest.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: bubblyrat
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 11:52 AM

As I said before and elsewhere, I don't particularly like them,or their material,although one cannot fail to be impressed by Mr Beer's incredible musicianship. ; I just don't like the other one,or his songs. Nevertheless, I feel certain that their popularity and relatively high profile will be of great help in educating the masses about "Folk" music. I am, by the way, a 60 + YO die-hard fan of folk music, who is yet not averse to doing,as he does with his other band-members,covers of such luminaries as Nancy Griffith,The Eagles,and the late John Denver ( so there's hope !!). See some of you in Sidmouth tomorrow,then ??

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 11:33 AM

SoH on Breakfast

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:50 AM

Nah - Luge is that very weird gane where you dress in Lycra, lie on a tin tray and throw yourself down an ice canyon at 100mph.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: SunrayFC
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:49 AM

WOW

maybe this should be renamed mAdcats

why can't people discuss in a rational manner.

Oh, yes, I know why!!!

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:20 AM

Perhaps they will write a song about bobsleighing or as some idiot trendy has decided to call it - lugeing (is it?). I hear that the Irish team has refused to take part until the course is gritted!!!!!

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:07 AM

I never said anyone hated you. I said they had made it clear that they didn't want you going on about them, causing scraps and rows and distracting people from their music.

Just as you are doing now. Can you not just shut up and let it lie, woman?

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:02 AM

As I said, he did NOT say he hated me. That has come about through one woman's never ending campaign. I am truly not interested in her, or them, any longer.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:53 AM

Phil Beer wrote:

What I do NOT wish to be portrayed as is a member of some form of geriatric Boy Band. This sort of adulation is utterly embarrassing and I'd really like it to stop now.

And so would I have liked it to stop long ago, indeed for it not to have started. I admire Phil Beer's music and have done for two decades. I don't "love" every single thing he and Mr Knightley do. I imagine I speak for many others in expressing the hope that from now on I can continue to appreciate (or not) them musically without the constant bachground soundtrack of vacuous, inane syrupy, fawning squeeing.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:35 AM

No, Phil did not say he hated me, Diane.   

I'm glad you're now loving them though. It ends this story with such perfect irony. And I'm sure that those 'out there' who've been following it for many years are smiling at the way it's turned out.
I hope you enjoy them. I really do.


They are absolutely all yours.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:27 AM

Glad to hear they have appeared on mainstream telly

They're rarely off it. They were playing in a field in a howling gale on Country File the other day, looking even more dishevelled than usual.

MLC writes: Joan Crump has now made me feel that Show of Hands hate and loathe me so much

Dave Eyre writes: What utter self-indulgent bollocks

Indeed it is. How dare you suggest that Joan made it up? Phil Beer was forced and provoked, eventually, to tell you this HIMSELF (when he should have been in the studio).

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:25 AM

I am not sure what you mean Lizzie. My thoughts on Show of Hands are public on a number of threads you have started.

When I wrote self-indulgent bollocks I was talking about your writing.

If you mean you are leaving and not coming back (could that be a SoH title?) then I will believe it like I usually do, i.e. not at all.

She has left because some mudcatters are mean and she has left to join the man she loves. Each time she came back.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:21 AM

As it's no more than the band themselves asked for, quite publicly, I'm sure they'll be relieved. It's just a pity it's taken so long for you to finally get the message.

Now it would be nice if you could keep to your word, and refrain form making every single thread about Show of Hands into a thread about Lizzie Cornish.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:15 AM

Not at all, Dave. And after all, it's exactly what you and your pals have been engineering to happen, for a very long time.

Now, it has.

So, you can now be joyful.

I wish you well with your writing and supporting of them.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:14 AM

My support is neither wanted, nor needed. Could Vi not use it get in and out of the bath?

:D

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:10 AM

Was just wondering myself where she was....

Laurence - very well said.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:09 AM

What utter self-indulgent bollocks.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:49 AM

OK, so...I'd love to post what I thought about it all......

But....

...I'm afraid the Joan Crump has now made me feel that Show of Hands hate and loathe me so much, saying something along the lines of how they feel I'm as nasty as she thinks I am, that I have decided to never write about them again.

I am so sick of seeing what she writes, so sick of her putting Phil's message on here again and again and again, and of those who are right behind Joan who do it also.

It's had a bad effect on how I feel about them. And that is wrong, because all I ever did was bring people into their music by writing about the honesty and integrity inside their songs.

For that I was made out as some kind of stalker, a word Joan used many times against me, seemingly with the support of Steve and Phil it would seem. Strange as I never once met them, nor wanted to meet them, nor even have been to one of their gigs for 2 years now.

Yes, I wrote reams about them, but people wrote to me thanking me for that, saying they'd found their music because of what I wrote, all the arguments etc..but I choose to write about them no longer, not even their songs, because of how one woman has made me feel.

I hope she feels really pleased with herself and the Show of Hands team feel likewise.

A great shame that I no longer want to join in anymore, especially in this thread, because for a very long time I wrote to various radio and tv programmes about the music of Show of Hands, asking them to play some of their songs.

I will leave all of you to now support them.

My support is neither wanted, nor needed.

But that does not stop me wishing them all the best.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:41 AM

Right here.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,curious
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:35 AM

Where's Lizzie?

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: SunrayFC
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:29 AM

Actually, I agree that it is pop music.....and very popular it is too.

They (SoH) and folk music will benefit hugely from this.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,Paco O'Barmy
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:26 AM

Glad to hear they have appeared on mainstream telly at lsat.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,Laurence
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:22 AM

I googled the interview this morning to see if I could find it online and came across this thread. Alas I was one of the many already sat at my desk by the time this was on TV. I suspect it will probably appear on iPlayer at some point so I'll keep looking.

I do, however, feel compelled to reply to Ed's remarks that Show of Hands are 'pop' (I assume this remark was supposed to be derogatory). I am the ripe old age of 26 and as well as being an enthusiastic musician myself, I am also a big fan of traditional/folk music (whatever you care to call it). I frequently attend live shows and sessions all over the country and am often saddened by the distinct absence of younger people in the audience. Is it a bad thing that Show of Hands are making 'popular' music? No. There often seems to be an attitude that any folk musician who is successful or reaches out to new audiences has 'sold out'. Similarly, I get the impression that there are many out there who would prefer traditional music to remain the preserve of a select few (normally 60yo+) die hard fans.

The danger with all of this is that young people will be discouraged from nuturing an interest in traditional music and no one will carry all the fantastic stories and tunes on to the next generation of folk enthusiasts. Potentially, the musical genre that I love so much might die out.

In summary, whether or not you like Show of Hands, they shouldn't be criticised for raising the profile of folk music and reaching out to new audiences. In my humble opinion - Keep up the good work Steve and Phil!

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:49 AM

There has been a video of an acoustic version of AIG in the treasure chest that is the BBC's Folk Awards website for more than a fortnight. It's the performance they did at The Brewery on the night. There are several "acoustic" versions of it on YouTube from various Disheveled Duo + 1 gigs played across the Devonian Main over the last 12 months. If you've only heard the "pop" version up 'till now you haven't been seriously looking.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:57 AM

And in any case it really doesn't matter.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:53 AM

I'm sorry, but it's pop music


RUBBISH.

Subject: RE: Show of Hands on BBC Breakfast, UK
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:40 AM

Saw it.
Steve and Phil got good intelligent points across re the Bankers (as you would expect)
It was inevitably sound-bite TV, but at least they got to play one verse live.
Yeah, they did well in the 8 minutes they had!
(About the same amount of time as Martin Simpson got 2 weeks ago).
Who next? Dick Gaughan and Leon Rosselsson could be fun!