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'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?

michaelr 17 Feb 10 - 08:53 PM
michaelr 17 Feb 10 - 08:58 PM
katlaughing 17 Feb 10 - 09:16 PM
GUEST,999 17 Feb 10 - 09:19 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Feb 10 - 10:29 PM
Don Firth 17 Feb 10 - 11:26 PM
GUEST,999 17 Feb 10 - 11:38 PM
Lonesome EJ 17 Feb 10 - 11:46 PM
GUEST,999 17 Feb 10 - 11:47 PM
michaelr 18 Feb 10 - 01:56 AM
GUEST,999 18 Feb 10 - 01:58 AM
VirginiaTam 18 Feb 10 - 02:58 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 18 Feb 10 - 04:19 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 18 Feb 10 - 04:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Feb 10 - 05:16 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 18 Feb 10 - 05:26 AM
matt milton 18 Feb 10 - 05:27 AM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 18 Feb 10 - 05:28 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 18 Feb 10 - 05:39 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 18 Feb 10 - 05:43 AM
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matt milton 18 Feb 10 - 05:49 AM
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Subject: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: michaelr
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 08:53 PM

...and then some. In a recent Playboy he was asked: "Do black women throw themselves at you?" JM: "My dick is sort of like a white supremacist. I've got a Benetton heart and a fucking David Duke cock. I'm going to start dating separately from my dick."

And then this: "I come on very strong... That's why black people love me... Someone asked me the other day, "What does it feel like now to have a hood pass?" And by the way, it's sort of a contradiction in terms, because if you really had a hood pass, you could call it a nigger pass. Why are you pulling a punch and calling it a hood pass if you really have a hood pass?"

While discussing kissing Perez Hilton one night at a club, Mayer says, "I grabbed him and gave him the dirtiest, tongue-iest kiss I have ever put on anybody?almost as if I hated fags."

Mayer also went on at length about dating Jessica Simpson and Jennifer Aniston, revealing very private details.

Mayer calls himself a bluesman, but made his fame with breathy-voiced pop hits. I think he should take Frank Zappa's advice:

"Shut up `n play yer guitar!"


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: michaelr
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 08:58 PM

The douchiest things John Mayer has said


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 09:16 PM

...and a misogynist. I'd never heard of him, but from those quotes, he is certainly full of himself and looks wet behind the ears, NONE of which excuses his ugly comments. I listened partway to a couple of videos of him on youtube...how did he come to considered a "bluesman?" It seemed more pop/soft rock to me. Regardless, it's too bad so may people listen to him. I certainly won't.

kat


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 09:19 PM

I figure he spends at least five minutes per song on his lyrics.

Bluesman? Asshole, maybe, but bluesman? Keriste!


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 10:29 PM

Ah ~ now that clarifies what you said on that other thread. Thank you.

No ~ no relation; no way, I hasten to say. From Connecticut, I perceive; while all my that-way-spelt relations are right over the other side, in LA.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:26 PM

Jeez!!

When I run into stuff like him, I flush it down the toilet!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:38 PM

Stop holding back, Don. Say what you really mean!


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:46 PM

John Mayer is to Blues as Bud Light is to beer.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:47 PM

Indeed.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 01:56 AM

Bluesman is what he calls himself. Truth be told, Eric Clapton thought well enough of Mayer to invite him to both of his Crossroads Guitar Festivals (available on highly recommended DVDs), and he'll be back in the roster for this year's edition.

...and he does play the electric guitar quite compellingly at times. But jeez, dude, you're 32; you should have that mouth under better control by now.

In a way, it's quite welcome that a public figure shouild reveal themselves like that -- usually you just kinda sense they're an asshole. With Mayer, at least you can be sure.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 01:58 AM

His guitar playing is good. His lyrics are bloody awful.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:58 AM

fer fuck sake... the more outrageous he is the more he will be in the public eye, eh?

it is probably all spin.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:19 AM

John Mayer - Waiting on the World to Change


Okkkkkkkk.....

John Mayer is a superb guitarist and some of his songs are pretty darn good too.

He is also highly intelligent, and I mean *highly* intelligent. He is totally *despised* by the media because he tells them exactly what he thinks of them. They, in turn, go out of their way to print the most awful things about him. It has upset him greatly in the past, but he's now learnt to try to ignore it as best he can.

They have written outright lies about his relationship with Jennifer Aniston, entire articles.

Sometimes, he'll hold an interview in Japanese (he's fluent) if he gets pissed off or bored with idiotic 'celebrity' questions.

he has a mind that never turns off, a mouth that talks too much and fingers that are welded to his guitar.

On Twitter he's already apologising for using the 'n' word, saying that he started out trying to cope with all the criticism that was thrown his way, but he now seems to have created a monster.

Is he racist? I would doubt it very much...but what the hell he thought he was coming out with there, I've no idea.

Is he a fool? No, that's half the problem, he's the exact opposite, and this dumbed down world has him half beside himself with anger at times.


But yes, if John said exactly what he's been quoted as saying, then he has been very foolish, and he needs to slow right down, and get a grip...I take many things the media says about him with a huge pinch of salt, because in the past they have stopped at nothing. They ask him dumbass questions and he often responds with an outpouring of high intelligence, which they don't understand. It frustrates him terribly to be surrounded by people who are supposedly writing 'for the masses' but who can barely string together words of more than 2 syllables.

They literally hound him...hound him to the point where he has nearly crashed his car in an effort to get away from them. They dominate his life and some of them have been complete bastards to him.

Is that his own fault? I've no idea. He's just a guy who wants to play his guitar, who feels at peace when he's playing.....I don't think he wanted to sign up for all the other stuff, but...he did and he ain't coping with that part very well.

Gifted, trouble at school, left early, yaddayadda....a true musician..and I can see why Eric Clapton often plays with him.

My kids went up to see John in London, when he *was* playing with Eric Clapton, in Hyde Park. They said they were both absolutley sensational.

And here they are, at that very same gig:

John Mayer, Eric Clapton and Sheryl Crow - 'Hard Rock Calling' in Hyde Park 2008

A little more on the Playboy article...

John Mayer - Myspace


I have a theory that John is in the Asperger area....and that is why he sometimes comes out with highly inappropriate things, but that's just a thought, on my part. It still does not excuse what he's said...and I think that above everyone else, he realises what a blunder he's made..and what a monster he's created, in his effort to deal with media, interviews, fame etc...

Yes, he can walk away from it all, but...like so many wonderful musicians, the music is there, right inside him and has been from Day 1, so walking away is a hard option..


Burce, some of his lyrics are spot on, and he's trying to get young people to open their eyes, although I appreciate that his interview there sucks.

But listen to the lyrics on that video above 'Waiting on the World to Change'....


Anyway, bottom line, I like John Mayer...and his music so often blares out around my house, as my kids think he's fantastic, but nope, they'd not like to read what he's said there, because they've always admired him for being the exact opposite to the person he comes across as there.

Bad day? Bad head? Bad drugs? Who knows? But he'll look inside himself over that one...and punish himself far worse than anyone else will do, I'd imagine.


And no, John has no reason to create a scene to get noticed. He's HUGE in America, absolute megastar.


Here you can listen to him talking about how he loves the fact that some of his audience relate so strongly to his music, especially when he sings about his insomnia, his head being filled with 'unrelated thoughts'...

John - an interview on Youtube


John Mayer may not think like you do, he may not behave in the way you may want him to, he may not be able to explain himself, verbally, in the way you may want him to, but he's a good person, and a very talented musician, so don't just write him off because of one crazy interview. There is so much more to him.

OK..and HERE is John Mayer making one of the most honest and heartfelt apologies for being such an asshole and for hurting those he loved and who love him....and it's really worth watching!

John's Apology - Youtube


JOHN MAYER IS A **GOOD** MAN!


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:26 AM

And to make sure his honest and highly moving apology doesn't get lost in my diatribe above, I'm going to put here, separately, because it's important:

John's Apology For What He Said - Youtube


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:16 AM

Hope no-one gets his name confused with a real bluesman - John Mayall

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:26 AM

Both are excellent, David.   

However, when John Mayer plays the blues, he sure does play them good.

By the way, he doesn't describe himself as a blues player on his myspace page, so I'm not sure why he's getting bad press for that in here..


Oh, and if anyone notices, 4 out of the 6 people in his band are African American.

Some 'racist' huh?

Again, watch his apology, see the black women in his band crying, and here him telling people that his band are in no way on that stage because they supported what he said, no way...but that they said they're there to support him as a human being, because they see something in him which he does not...and that's the part he's going to try and unlock and concentrate on from now on.

One of the most humble apologies I've ever seen...and I only found that after I'd written all of that above. So you see, he did go on to punish himself, as I knew he would. I just hope that he doesn't give up talking out loud, because John Mayer so often has some deeply interesting things to say...but I think he finds interviews terribly stressful.

Change is on the horizon, that's for sure.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: matt milton
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:27 AM

"Is he racist? I would doubt it very much...but what the hell he thought he was coming out with there, I've no idea."

The absurd thing about the word "racist" these days is that people discuss it as if it were something somehow entirely separate from things you say, things you do and how you behave. He could be wearing a Klan hood while burning down a Baptist church and STILL there will be people saying 'oh, he's not a racist', as if there was some official Racistometer someone could use that revealed that, no matter how many RACIST things you say, you are not 'officially' a racist.

HE IS A RACIST BECAUSE HE SAID RACIST THINGS. That's, d'uh, what makes you a racist. The only get-out clause he could possibly have would be if he was totally out of his mind - blind drunk or high on coke or something. And even then it would suggest he is

"Is he a fool? No, that's half the problem, he's the exact opposite, and this dumbed down world has him half beside himself with anger at times."

Again, how many stupid things does someone have to say before you conclude they're a fool? HE IS A FOOL BECAUSE HE SAID FOOLISH THINGS.

Open and shut case.

He also makes crap music, but that's not really the point.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:28 AM

I guess if he is being championed by Eric Clapton, he's in good company. Clapton is white musician who has made a career from offering the world a bland and anodyne reinterpretation of black American music - whilst at the same time maintaining an ugly sideline in peddling dodgy racist ideas. 30 years after his comments in support of racist politician Enoch Powell lead to the formation of Rock Against Racism, he was still standing by his words. Am I alone in finding it difficult to reconcile this?

As for John Mayer, he's in his 30s, he's allegedly an intelligent man. You'd think he'd have learned to use his brain before he engaged his gob by now. There are plenty of artists as famous and mainstream as he is who aren't "hounded by the media". It seems some people court and crave this sort of attention.

At least he's not someone whose records are worth listening to...


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:39 AM

Geez, you lot sure are dismissive of the music of others..


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:43 AM

Well, you'd better add David Bowie to your 'list'..

Rock Against Racism - Wiki


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:48 AM

"At least he's not someone whose records are worth listening to..."


In *your* opinion.


Mine is the exact opposite.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: matt milton
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:49 AM

Well what kind of response do you consider to be appropriate for bland, middle-of-the-road, Baywatch-soundtrack rock music? I'd say dismissal is about right.

The only reason we're discussing John Mayer here is because of some idiotic things he said.

However, if you wanted to get back on track, It might be interesting, from a Mudcat perspective, to ponder how the mainstream notion of "blues" seems to have degenerated into "anyone who uses the word" or "anyone that has ever bent a string on a Fender strat" or "anyone who's ever jammed with BB King"


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:51 AM

Lizzie - I don't like to jump across threads but look at what I put on another one that you are on. I have recommended you look at "The way you tell 'em".

This is a prime example -

Both are excellent, David.   

However, when John Mayer plays the blues, he sure does play them good.


The implication here is that when John Mayall plays the blues he does NOT play then good. If I see it like that a lot of other people will. They may start to jump up and down on your head about Joyn Mayall being a 75 year old blues god while John Mayer is a 30-something pop artist.

Can you not see how you bring a lot of your so called problems on yourself? Just engage brain before hitting submit.

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:00 AM

"John Mayer is to Blues as Bud Light is to beer."

Not really Leej. The guy is more like the piss from a syphyllitic leper watered down with stagnant water from a cedar swamp.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:01 AM

No, that's not what I implied at ALL. I merely said that when John Mayer DOES play the blues, he sure does play 'em good!

If I didn't like John Mayall I'd have said "He's absolute shite, David, and can't TOUCH John Mayer when it comes to playing the blues!"   

WHAT is your problem, David?

This is NOT an English lesson. I don't write in Japanese, honest, you just read it in Japanese, that's all.

T'aint my fault.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:02 AM

"I guess if he is being championed by Eric Clapton, he's in good company. Clapton is white musician who has made a career from offering the world a bland and anodyne reinterpretation of black American music - whilst at the same time maintaining an ugly sideline in peddling dodgy racist ideas. 30 years after his comments in support of racist politician Enoch Powell lead to the formation of Rock Against Racism, he was still standing by his words. Am I alone in finding it difficult to reconcile this?"

Nope. No time for Clapton at all, for precisely those reasons.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: matt milton
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:03 AM

yeah, Bowie's advocacy of fascism was stupid and dumb too. Sure, Bowie's never exactly been the sharpest tool in the box either.

What's your point? That it's not just rubbish mucisians who are a bit thick?

While Bowie's comments were stupid, talking about how Britain could benefit from strong fascist leadership in the mid-1970s, they at least didn't have that noxious "fucking a black slave girl" ring that Mayer's do. Not that that lets him off the hook. Bowie was being thick, trying to do a Stockhausen/Baudrillard while off his head on coke. John Mayer was being thick, trying to show off to men's magazines the way a racist jock would in the locker room.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:04 AM

And I guess the other issue is that you don't take criticism very well? :-)



DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:04 AM

John Mayer playin' the blues...


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:08 AM

No, David, I take criticism if it makes sense. Yours didn't.

And, may I remind you that I have never criticised what you write or how you write it. Nor would I.


"fucking a black slave girl"

John Mayer did NOT say that, actually, so to put YOUR thoughts into quotes implying he did....stinks.

Listen to his apology on that youtube link and then tell me that he's racist!   

Do you think that the 4 out of 6 Black Americans in his band would even be standing on that stage with him if they didn't believe in him???


Yeesh!


Spaw, don't know what you had for breakfast, but tomorrow, try some Weetabix.   :0)


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:09 AM

However, when John Mayer plays the blues, he sure does play them good.

By the way, he doesn't describe himself as a blues player on his myspace page

John Mayer playin' the blues...


Is he a blues player or not then?

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:11 AM

And, may I remind you that I have never criticised what you write or how you write it.

How about my ability to read then?

I don't write in Japanese, honest, you just read it in Japanese, that's all.

:D


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:17 AM

No, David, I take criticism if it makes sense. Yours didn't.

And, may I remind you that I have never criticised what you write or how you write it. Nor would I.


Does anyone else see a bizarre irony in that?

I like this thread. It is moving the heat from folk to blues. Seeing as Mudcat is is a blues and folk forum it is about time the blues came under the kind ministrations of our resident shit stirrer:-)

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:19 AM

Totally take on board Matt's comments about Bowie's idiot tendencies, which were clearly in full flood in the late 70s. The difference between him and Clapton, though, is that Clapton has never withdrawn or apologised for his remarks, whereas Bowie later retracted and apologised for his.

Mayer, meanwhile, may be doing the full Hollywood-style bells-and-whistles, emotionally-charged, PR-managed apology schtick right now, but seriously, you would hope that things had moved on just a little from the bad old days of 70s-style casual racism and that white artists (especially those who borrow from black culture) might show a little more class.

And posting lots of links to his dreary AOR dross isn't going to change that.

Here's an antidote: Reverend Gary Davis


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: The Villan
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:26 AM

Now what makes me think that this thread is going to end up in a total slagging match between a few Mudcatters who will totally drift away from the topic.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:27 AM

So, let me get this straight then...

David Bowie apologises and ALL is forgiven.

John Mayer aplogisies and ALL hell breaks loose because you think it's false?

That's shit. Sorry, but it is total shite, in my opinion.



David, you interpret my words in a very different way to how they are meant. I can't solve that one I'm afraid...unless you want to write all my posts, of course. LOL EEK! ;0)   

All I can do is correct you when you get the wrong end of the stick.

Nobody else interpreted that as me saying that John Mayall can't play the blues like John Mayer.   Er...because I didn't say that.

And....John Mayer plays all kinds of music, blues included, that's all.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: matt milton
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:28 AM

"fucking a black slave girl"

John Mayer did NOT say that, actually, so to put YOUR thoughts into quotes implying he did....stinks."

I didn't imply he said that. I said what he said had a ring of that to it. Which it UNDENIABLY did. I mean, Jesus Christ, he said:

"My dick is sort of like a white supremacist. I've got a Benetton heart and a fucking David Duke cock"

DO YOU COMPREHEND THAT, LIZZIE CORNISH?

Just to repeat:

"My dick is sort of like a white supremacist. I've got a Benetton heart and a fucking David Duke cock"

You do know who David Duke is, Lizzie? You do know the history of the Klansmen in America? You do know the history of white supremicism in America, Lizzie?

And again:

"My dick is sort of like a white supremacist. I've got a Benetton heart and a fucking David Duke cock"

Give this one up Lizzie. He's clearly a hateful moron.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:35 AM

I wonder what causes all the other arguments then? Maybe I am the only one kind enough to put them down to misunderstanding occasionaly? Ah well. I'll just consider myself stupid and give up:-)

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: matt milton
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:37 AM

Re. Bowie, no all is not forgiven.
Bowie said something stupid in support of fascism. Very stupid. But it didn't provoke the kind of visceral, nauseous urge to vom the way these comments did:

""I come on very strong... That's why black people love me"

"My dick is sort of like a white supremacist. I've got a Benetton heart and a fucking David Duke cock"

For what it's worth, I enjoy reading the novels of Wyndham Lewis and the poetry of Ezra Pound, both of whom espoused fascism at one point. I think Bowie's albums "Low" and "Heroes" are fantastic.

From what I've read about the private lives of the Beatles, Miles Davis, the Stones and Led Zeppelin, none of them were very pleasant people; hasn't stopped me loving their music.

Frankly, if John Mayer made really amazing music, rather than big-chart-rawk muzak, I'd probably end up putting it on and guiltily enjoying it, despite thinking he was a total asshole. Fortunately I'll never fact that quandary in the case of Mr Mayer.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:39 AM

"David Bowie apologises and ALL is forgiven"

Putting words in other people's mouth as usual, I see. Cheers!

Apart from that, Matt just said it all, so nothing more for me to add.

Off to listen to some real blues.

Les - noted! ;-)


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:46 AM

"He's clearly a hateful moron."

Not if you've read 'Look Me In The Eye' he isn't....but then some of you guys won't ever give anyone a chance.   

I pulled you up for that because you put your words in quotation marks, thus implying they were John's words. They weren't.

I think you'll find he said something along the lines of black women threw themselves at him and he couldn't cope with that....

Here it is, taken from the Playboy Interview link I put in, above:

"..He then discusses how he isn't totally open to dating African American women, "black women throw themselves at you," he replied with, "I don't think I open myself to it. My d? is sort of like a white supremacist. I've got a Benetton heart and a f??' David Duke c?. I'm going to start dating separately from my d?."......"


I've stated above what I thought about his interview. I've also posted his apology. You can believe it or not.   

I've known about John Mayer for years, known about his mind, the way his mouth fires off....the way he's been hounded. He's made a huge mistake and he knows it. You watch him now withdraw from public life. This will tear him apart, but you guys want that to happen so..what can I say to make you think otherwise. All I hope is that it doesn't tear him apart to the point of suicide.

Strange though that some seem to have forgiven Bowie for backing Hitler and wanting to promote facism. Interesting.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: matt milton
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:46 AM

"Do you think that the 4 out of 6 Black Americans in his band would even be standing on that stage with him if they didn't believe in him??? "

Yes. They're paid to.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:48 AM

Oh, and try reading 'Look Me In The Eye' because it may open your minds in a very different way.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:53 AM

"Oh, and try reading 'Look Me In The Eye' because it may open your minds in a very different way."



Oh, here we go. Lizzie has diagnosed him as Autistic or Aspergers or whatever. In fact, everyone she likes is apparently Autistic or Aspergers. So that makes whatever they say and do okay. Of course, John Mayer can't be obnoxious just because he's a racist twat - there must be something that "makes" him do it, because he's "special". Lizzie's an expert at diagnosing people who have never had any kind of medical diagnosis, dontcha know.


Enjoy the thread, guys.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: matt milton
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:56 AM

Read my post again. Again.

As it happens Bowie didn't back Hitler, he just said something rather stupid about Hitler being the first rock star. Bowie DID, on the other hand, say that he thought Britain could do with strong, fascist leadership. Yes, objectionable and stupid.

I put those words in quotation marks because, Lizzie, double quotes are routinely used in idiomatic written English for purposes other than the signification of direct quotation ? as "scare quotes". I'm sure you'll have seen them used in this way once or twice; it's really not unusual.

John Mayer's a successful, rich musician. He has tons of cash, gets to fly around the world and sleep with beautiful women. He'll cope.

Anyway, the media love a prodigal son. The whole thing will ultimately pay dividends for Mayer.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:01 AM

FWIW I think you are right, too, Les. But to be honest it is not a very clever prediction and should not the phrase be 'slanging match' rather than 'slagging match'. Now, want to argue about it:-D

Out of interest, and more to the point I suppose, I don't mind his music in much the same way I don't mind lots of MOR stuff - It is quite pleasant but, as MOR stuff is supposed to, it does not rattle my cage. I also think his comments, in context, could be construed as either racist or not. I can see the way it could be spun both ways by a clever PR man but, as per my previous discussions on the same topic, people really do have to be careful what they say. On here it doesn't matter too much but for someone trying to build a career it is pretty dangerous to leave any room for doubt. I am going to hang fire on whether he is racist or not but the 'prick' bit is unequivocal!

Mind you, he may loose some support in the short term but maybe his longer term aim was a higher profile? In which case he has suceeded. In which case I would change 'prick' to 'manipulative bastard'.

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:04 AM

Cross posted with Matt there - Aye. Probably press manipulation. Been done before.

Beatles bigger than Jesus
Oasis bigger than the Beatles

Had me fooled for a few minutes though...

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:22 AM

John Mayer doesn't need to manipulate anyone, David. His career is not on the skids, he sells out all over the US, he's mega. He just has a mouth and mind that need strong discipliine and this has been his wake up call, that's all.

He's already agreed that he created a monster, but that monster was created because of the way he's been treated all along in his career.


I don't know, I prefer to always try to see the other side, but if some choose only to see the bad, then that's all they'll ever see.

Joan, start another thread if you want to slag me off, or put it in a PM. I won't read it, but at least it'll get it out of your system and keep it off this board. Thank you.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:23 AM

And the title on this thread is horrible, in my opinion and not one that does Mudcat's reputation any good.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: IanC
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:24 AM

Hi Could some useful mudelf put this BS thread where it belongs. It might purport to be about music but it clearly isn't

Thanks


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: The Villan
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:47 AM

Dave

Definition of Slagging as per Encarta

slagging

slag·ging [ slágging ] (plural slag·gings)

noun

Definition:

U.K. criticism: a series of insulting, mocking, or critical comments ( slang )

Sounds about right for me :-)


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:51 AM

Glad you rose to the bait, Les. :-P

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: The Villan
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:06 AM

:-)


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: matt milton
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:13 AM

"And the title on this thread is horrible, in my opinion and not one that does Mudcat's reputation any good."

In these days of unsolicited and unwanted "support" from Nick Griffin, the more folk websites that lambast racism wherever it appears, the better the music's reputation will be.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Morris-ey
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:47 AM

So what if he is a racist? Don't listen to or buy his products.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:54 AM

Can just ONE of you please explain to me WHY John Mayer has 4, HELLO? **FOUR* Black Americans in his 6 piece band??????????????????????????


Come on, come ON, all you racist name callers? Come on out and explain that to me??????

And......


PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY ****ALL FOUR**** OF THOSE BLACK AMERICAN MUSICIANS ARE STANDING ***RIGHT*** BESIDE ***JOHN MAYER***


Thanks very much..I look forward to hearing from you shortly.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:56 AM

And if you want my thoughts on why I think he has Asperger's don't hesitate to ask...because what I have to say may make you think a little differently, but...you'd also have to think deeply too, so that may be a little difficult for some....

AND if you'd like me to interpret what he said, in a very different way, also don't hesitate to ask...unless you only want to see it YOUR way, of course....


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:59 AM

Just as soon as you explain why we need all those asterisks, question marks and capital letters. And don't call me shortly...

:D


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:00 AM

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY ****ALL FOUR**** OF THOSE BLACK AMERICAN MUSICIANS ARE STANDING ***RIGHT*** BESIDE ***JOHN MAYER***

Because they're being paid to.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:22 AM

And if you want my thoughts on why I think he has Asperger's don't hesitate to ask.

Why do you think he has Asperger's Lizzie?


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:47 AM

One interpretation of what Mayer said from -

Richard T. Ford, author of 'The Race Card: How Bluffing About Bias Makes Race Relations Worse'

Mayer is "being deliberately provocative and since he assures us that black people love him -- thanks for letting us know -- it's supposed to be okay.

(His) tongue-in-cheek racism satirizes racial stereotypes and but also sort of traffics in them,

Sarah Silverman does post racist very adroitly -- she's both hilarious and thought provoking.

Mayer does it badly -- he's offensive and tiresome.

Tragically, this is what passes for edginess for many celebrities today -- someone blurting out the most crude and insulting thing that comes to what we might charitably call his 'mind.'

Mayer did say one smart in the interview: 'I think the world would be better off if I stopped doing interviews.' Amen."


And another comment about this attention seeking individual which ties in with an earlier post

"This whole shit storm is just drumming up publicity for a performer who has been relatively quiet of late.
His audience is growing up and branching out musically so he has to try to re ignite interest in his music and shed the whole sophmoric 'wonderland' stigma he has following him around."


I love the expression 'sophomoric wonderland stigma' that he appears to be burdened with - now what does it remind me of .........


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:10 AM

He wrote a song called 'You're a Body is a Wonderland' which was a massive hit, so it's a play on that, but I doubt you'd know that.

And that song is probably WAY too sexy for you too, so I'd not go in to listen to it, as you'll probably falll over sideways in shock, with talk of bodies, hands, hair, love..

He is HATED by journalists. You should perhaps bear that in mind when you read anything about him, and they have made his life absolute hell at times.   They've been total shites to him and they have absolutely no right to be that way, but....they feel they have, because they really couldn't give a flying fuck if they drive someone to the edge.

'Your Body Is A Wonderland - Youtube


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:17 AM

Richard T. Ford, is the George E. Osborne Professor of Law at Stanford university
He is not a journalist but an anknowledged expert on civil rights and antidiscrimination law - but I doubt you'd know that

"And that song is probably WAY too sexy for you too, so I'd not go in to listen to it, as you'll probably falll over sideways in shock, with talk of bodies, hands, hair, love.."

ROFLMA! Best laugh of the day Lizzie !


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:19 AM

Are these those same journalists that some people get most of their information from? It seems that as long as they are reporting something that is agreeable they are OK but as soon as they tread on the sensibilities they are total shites. FWIW I believe the media is ALL shite and never believe a single word but sometimes, when I point that out, I get shot down. Wonder why?

Good philosophy when dealing with the press - Believe nothing you hear, nothing you read and only some of what you see. May even stop attention grabbing headlines from being quoted by some as facts?

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 11:26 AM

"Your body Is a wonderland
Your body is a wonder (I'll use my hands)
Your body Is a wonderland

Something 'bout the way your hair falls in your face
I love the shape you take when crawling towards the pillowcase "

Well thank you for that I really wasn't familiar with it -
However, I think I still prefer

" License my roving hands, and let them go,
Behind, before, above, between, below.
O my America! my new-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man man'd,
My mine of precious stones: my emperie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!
To enter in these bonds, is to be free;
Then where my hand is set, my seal shall be.
    Full nakedness! All joys are due to thee,
As souls unbodied, bodies uncloth'd must be,
To taste whole joyes"

John Donne


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 11:41 AM

Did John Donne have Asperger's?


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 11:53 AM

I don't know the man and haven't heard his music. I didn't see the article and don't know the context from which the cited comments were drawn. I can only say that calling oneself a blues performer and being a racist and misogynist at the same time certainly paints one as a human oxymoron.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:17 PM

Maybe he's kinda like Rush--half Oxy, half moron.


A


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:35 PM

The words come out in print as if Mayer was out of his skull at the time of uttering. However, "in vino veritas" and probably other stimulants are similar.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:39 PM

However, with Mad Lizzie on his side he probably needs no more handicaps.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 01:19 PM

I've been on John Mayer's side for many years, actually, Richard..and..strangely, it's never done him one iota of harm.

He used to support new bands on his Myspace page, giving them top billing in his playlist, above his own songs..he'd change them each week...

He didn't have to do that, but he did..


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 01:33 PM

"Your body Is a wonderland
Your body is a wonder (I'll use my hands)
Your body Is a wonderland

Something 'bout the way your hair falls in your face
I love the shape you take when crawling towards the pillowcase "

Well thank you for that I really wasn't familiar with it -
However, I think I still prefer

" License my roving hands, and let them go,
Behind, before, above, between, below.
O my America! my new-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man man'd,
My mine of precious stones: my emperie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!
To enter in these bonds, is to be free;
Then where my hand is set, my seal shall be.
    Full nakedness! All joys are due to thee,
As souls unbodied, bodies uncloth'd must be,
To taste whole joyes"

John Donne



Yeah, but it's kinda tricky to put into a modern rock song, ain't it....



I've got all the pictures I need from John Mayer's song, the way he sings it, phrases it, the whole film's there...and boy, is it sexual! :0)

John Mayer talking about Stevie Ray Vaughan


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 01:44 PM

'Yeah, but it's kinda tricky to put into a modern rock song, ain't it....'

true enough - that's the difference between bubblegum music and poetry I guess


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 01:45 PM

Rock? I thought it was blues? Now I am really confused.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:25 PM

In fact, tho any true bluasman will probably kill me for saying so; but early rock was much blues influenced. Tommy Steele's Singing The Blues, e.g., was in perfect 16-bar format.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:29 PM

Put it in the BS section for sure, and yes I agree he is


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:32 PM

For sure, Elvis' "Hound Dog" was from the blues.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:43 PM

Damn right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_5LF6AsuYc


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:11 PM

Taken from here:


"A representative for a children's charity has come to the defense of John Mayer following his controversial Playboy magazine interview, describing the rocker as a "kind, caring and compassionate" person.

The singer has come under fire for comments made in the March issue of the men's magazine, in which he used the 'N' word when talking about his African-American fanbase and revealed lurid details about his sex life with ex-girlfriend Jessica Simpson.

Mayer has since apologized for his remarks and a childhood friend, Joe Beleznay, recently came forward to lend his support to the embattled star, insisting the singer/songwriter's sense of humor is misunderstood and "goes over the general public's head".

Now a spokesperson for The Isaac Foundation, which raises cash for kids diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder, has also given his backing to Mayer, who has been a longtime supporter of the cause.

In a message on the foundation's website, entitled 'In Defense of John Mayer', the rep writes, "(Mayer is) someone that I have grown to respect for the kind, caring, and compassionate person that he truly is. I don't care what Playboy Magazine writes about the man, and I don't care what John says to the journalists that write what they do about him.

"I know he has said things that turn people off. I know he's said things that make him sound like someone you would never want your children around - ever. But I also know the person that he truly is and the good things he tries to accomplish with the celebrity status he's achieved. Write what you want about John, think what you will, but before you hand down your verdict on what kind of person he really is, please consider the good he has done in his life."


The Isaac Foundation


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:24 PM

AMOS!!!! "Maybe he's kinda like Rush--half Oxy, half moron."

Glad I had a tissue handy on accounta I had top spit out my V8!!

Hahahahahehehehehe.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:06 PM

Well, I've received a request to move this thread into the non-music section. Trouble is, it's about music.
I don't like this thread, but I can't really see anything to do about it.

-Joe-

However, I will place one restriction:

    This thread is no longer open to Guest posts. Subsequent Guest posts will be deleted.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:14 PM

Huh?

There have only been four GUEST posts to this thread, and none of them look problematic to me.
    Sorry, Michael, but you'll have to wait until you get home, where you have a cookie on your computer. Either that, or log in from the office with the same user name and password you use at home. I've deleted a couple Guest posts already. And the Guest ban is a partial compromise with the person who wanted the thread moved to BS or deleted.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:32 PM

It's not about music, Joe. Never was. Even less so when it became about the champion of all unerdogs. Feel free to move it.

Guest, defender of common sense.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: fumblefingers
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:37 PM

Other than that, how's his pickin'?


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Flashmeister
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 07:27 PM

Dang, John Mayer has never appealed to me - even after a listen at his ole stuff - get kinda fed up with people trying to be edgy and controversial though to boost their persona.
the man is a douche.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:42 PM

Here's another vote to move it to BS, Joe. It's not really about his music, not even from the OP. It's about a celebrity who happens to make music. Sometimes I think we need one more section where folks can post away about celebrities, etc. and the rest of us don't have to bother. At least some kind of prefix as in "BS" and others we already have.

Personally, the minute one of these turns into a slagging match, I think it should get closed, esp. when it is the "usual suspects."

kat


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 12:27 AM

I'm glad to see pointless rancor and needless discussion hasn't lost it's priority.

Don


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: The Villan
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 02:54 AM

Agree with Kat

Quote from Kat
I think we need one more section.

"usual suspects."

End of quote

Why not call it SB which stands for Sin Bin

When the usual suspects get started, ban them from all section other than sin bin and don't allow any other users access to it.
When they have served an amount of time in the sin bin and are not slagging each other off, allow them back in.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 02:57 AM

Jeez guys! Does posting a couple of comments make me a "usual suspect"?

You can go off people, you know!


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: The Villan
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 03:19 AM

:-)


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 03:34 AM

Sorry to be harsh, michaelr, but I predict this thread won't make the "best of Mudcat" list. Something titled So-and-so is a .... prick is not particularly conducive to intelligent conversation. Such titles tend to inspire sparklingly descriptive phrases like "douchebag." Now, if this thread has a less provocative title, might it have become an intelligent discussion of racism among musicians, or would it still be a celebrity-gossip-drivel thread?

Still, it's about music, although I suppose some people could argue it's "celebrity" and not "musician" that is the operative agent here. I know some people think above-the-line is "good stuff" and below-the-line is "bad stuff." I guess that's why they want the obituaries for their loved ones above the line, even if their loved one couldn't sing a note.

Above the line is supposed to be music-related, and other stuff (some of which may be good) fits below the line. The position above or below the line, is not supposed to be a statement about the quality of the contents of a thread.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 04:03 AM

Joe, I think you're right about the thread title. It's not ideal, though to be fair to Michaelr I think he was going for a play on words based on JM's interview comments.

I wondeer if Mudcat had been around in 1976, whether a similar thread about the sorts of comments Eric Clapton and David Bowie were making would have been seen as a low quality thread. Not all the comments on this thread are "prick 'n' douchebag" quality. In the UK, such comments by high profile musicians were (along with the National Front marching on our streets - and believe me, they made the BNP look like pussycats) factors leading to the formation of Rock Against Racism - a widely supported popular movement including many musicians, political, community and grassroots activists and regular music fans who wanted to publically distance themselves from such views and make a stand against racism. I think it's generally agreed that RaR contributed to a seachange in attitudes about race in the UK, particularly amongst younger people. Ceratinly as a teenager, RaR and CND were my first exposure to politics as a real thing you could get involved in, as opposed to something other people did, that you simply consumed on the news.

I find it a tad depessing that 38 years after the founding of RaR, not do only some white musicians who use black music as a vehicle for creative expression (and have black people in their band) still come out with overtly racist statements, but also that there are people out there who will take it upon themselves to act as apologists for such musicians. I think as musicians and music fans (and I know there is a strata of Mudcatteers who are sniffy about the term "fans", but not all of us who live and breathe music have the skills to play an instrument, so take it as shorthand rather than the negative value judgement it often seems to be) we should be able to comment on such things and not put down as "the usual suspects" as if being an anti-racist and commenting from that perspective was somehow problematic.

As far as I can see, making and listening to music of one kind or another is a basic human impulse. There should be no place in it for devisive and hateful views and beliefs. When comments like JM's raise their ugly head, I hope that other musicians and music fans will not quibble or look for excuses for the perp, but clearly and plainly challenge and refute them.

Love music, hate racism


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:06 AM

First of all, John Mayer IS a musician. And, whether some of you like it or not, he is probably a far better musician than some folks on this board. He is also a far lesser one than some folks on this board.

He hit the bigtime.

Not his fault. It just happened. And to be honest, the pressure of the huge fame he carries in the US is beginning to tell on him. I've said before that he has great problems with the press, always has had.
On one of his DVDs he talks about this in detail, saying how it has caused him much distress, because at the heart of it he's always been a shy person, finding it difficult to understand other kids when he was younger, never wanting to scream and holler in drama lessons or playgrounds. He was the quiet one, the one who loved to read and play his guitar.

Then fame broke loose and all that went with it surrounded him.

Yes, he didn't have to go with that, he could have walked away, but he didn't.

As the journalists asked him more and more dumbass questions, trying to get into his life, his tolerance grew less and less...and a vicious circle was created of John trying to outdo them, and him having to live with lie after lie, slur after slur. He couldn't live his life normally, followed everywhere, photographed all the time, against his wishes...

Then he started dating the actresses...Cameron Diaz, Jennifer Aniston and others, and the pressure grew and grew....They wrote such lies about he and Jennifer, it drove him nuts..but what was he to do, sue them all? He tried to live with it...and in doing so he created, in his own words, a monster.

He's always been quick witted, quirky, a man who says whacky things whilst keeping his face straight, maybe to gauge the reactoin of others, to see if they really believed him or not, maybe because that's just the way he is...His comments became more outrageous as his relationship with the press spiralled downwards...

They weren't just a little unkind to him, they were downright ruthless.

I am not making excuses for what he said, he was a fool to say those things, but I'm simply trying to make a few souls who may have one iota of sympathy inside them to look at this from a different angle.

The press have been waiting for this moment for a very long time. And they'll not let it rest.

John knows he's reached the point of 'Problem Land' and I would hope that now, folks who care about him will step in and try to help, and his band are some of those very people.

The 4 out of 6 black americans in his band were not standing beside him that night of his apology purely for the money!! Geez, WHO could even think something like that????   They were there because they KNOW the REAL John Mayer! They KNOW that he thinks a little differently, acts a little differently, feels and sees a little differently..and they totally accept all of that, because they also know that John Mayer IS a caring and compassionate person. They were on that stage standing beside him Spiritually!! And they'll surround him now with their friendship and love.

Did any of you actually WATCH his apology? Did you hear him say that this is it, now, he won't deal with the press any longer, no more shocking, stupid, thoughtless headlines, no more stress....He doesn't care if he gets hardly anyone turning up, he just wants to play his guitar.

His guitar is what John Mayer is about...and he'd happily sit down with any bluesman, learn from them, love working with them! Did you watch him talking about Stevie Ray Vaughan? Did you hear the deep admiration in his voice?

John Mayer made some bloody stupid comments, but I'd imagine he made them off the top of his head, thinking it was kinda funny, and that those words were out of his mouth before he knew what had happened...And then, they were down in that interview.

For a long time he has made inappropriate remarks and did not recognise them to be that way.

Pretty much like Jonathon Ross, actually.....but of course, none of you will see the comparison, because you're hellbent on your "He's a RACIST!" path...

He's not. He made a bloody stupid remark...and for that, unlike Jonathon Ross and the remarks he made about a woman, he has apologised in one of the most humble apologies I've ever seen.

Some of you think that he was merely putting that on. That's your choice.

I think he meant it from the bottom of his heart.   I also think that John Mayer will now be living his life very differently, hopefully get some help and insight into why he makes the kind of comments he has done over the years...and, just like Jonathon Ross, will be able to learn to recognise what is and is not acceptable.

I hope the press will now leave him alone, but they won't. They'll hound him for many years to come.

And with regards to these words he said:

>>>Mayer used the slur when discussing whether he's accepted by rappers like Jay-Z and Kanye West as one of their own.

"Someone asked me the other day, 'What does it feel like now to have a hood pass?,' " Mayer told Playboy. "If you really had a hood pass, you could call it a n---- pass But I said, 'I can't really have a hood pass. I've never walked into a restaurant, asked for a table and been told, 'We're full.' "<<<<

...I don't see what the problem is there. Someone in America told me the other day that when he was growing up he was called 'nigger' by his black friends, of which he had many. They were in a gang, on the streets of New York and all ran together. They told him he was their 'honorary nigger'. And does John not imply there that even if he was totally accepted by the black American world, he'd still not be able to be a true brother, because he would never have to suffer racism in the way they do, as in when he said; 'I can't really have a hood pass. I've never walked into a restaurant, asked for a table and been told, 'We're full.' "<<<<

Young black Americans use the word nigger to each other. They've tried to turn it around and make it a word of pride. We still see it as a racist word, because of the history it carries, but come ON, haven't you ever heard "Hey, ma Nigger!" being used in modern day street language in the cities of the US?   

I don't like the word. Vinnie James, African/Native American is trying to get the word removed from the dictionary, because he hates the way young black people use it all the time, it upset Vinnie deeply, as does slavery in general, understandably..

Anyway, I'll leave those who are determined to only see him as the press wants you to, to continue their bile...

I also would like to say that I think this thread has one of the most vile and unpleasant titles I've ever seen, even if it was meant to be 'funny'...

It is no more 'funny' than John Mayers remarks about black women were, and perhaps the title was written in the same way that John's remarks were made, and that was in a hurry, without thought, to shock and ultimately to appeal to the author's dry sense of humour.

???

I recognise that michaelr is NOT like that, on a day to day basis, just as I recognise that John Mayer isn't either.


It's all another way of looking at things.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:19 AM

I forgot this earlier....

Vinnie James - Myspace

Vinnie has been doing a lot of work with folk musicians in Scotland these past few years...and if you listen to 'County Line' you can hear some of those musicians in the intro....He's a really lovely man, so sweet and honest. Some won't like his page, because he's good looking, because he's a singer songwriter, but Vinnie has the most amazing social conscience....and he was bowled over when the people of Scotland surrounded him at a gig, when he had to face "Get off the stage you damn Nigger!" taunts from someone....

Vinnie's audience made sure the guy was surrounded and he spent the night in prison for that remark. He was astounded, literally astounded, as he told me that in the US, that remark would have gone by unnoticed.

I think his blog about the 'nigger' word is still on his page there...It has become a weird word, one that is used as 'brother' by Black Americans, and one that still carries its original abuse by some white people.

And no, I do NOT think that John Mayer used it to abuse.


For anyone new to this thread, John's apology on Youtube is further up this list of messages.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Mark Ross
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 12:04 PM

From this mornings NYTimes;

JOHN MAYER (Thursday) The singer and songwriter John Mayer is famous for various things ? publicly wooing starlets, posting witty barbs on his Twitter account, saying stupid things in interviews, making semi-grotesque faces while playing guitar ? all of which are ultimately more intriguing than his limp, soft-rock ballads.


Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:05 PM

Yup, that highlights the nastiness of the journalists who follow him round...particularly the part about his facial expressions.

Good God, *loads* of musicians have very expressive faces when they play, I've seen it time and again, so WHY put that about John?

And again, with regard to his music, there are millions of people out there who love like crazy, so are they jealous, bitter...?

Who knows, eh...


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:15 PM

maybe they are just music critics - not adulatory 'fans'?


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:21 PM

Does posting a couple of comments make me a "usual suspect"?

I did not have you in mind at all, SC.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:30 PM

just in passing the same music critic in the NY Times desribed Richie Havens

"Mr. Havens is still strumming his guitar with untrammeled momentum, still singing in his grainy baritone and still bringing earnest drama out of protests and stubborn optimism"

.....nice


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 06:21 PM

Cheers, Kat! Thanks for sayin'... ;-)


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 06:56 PM

Well shoot, Joe, if you're going to publicly make quality judgments about the worth of our posts, then you might as well delete or close them at will.

I was originally going to title the thread "John Mayer has a racist prick". Would that have been better?

I don't see how this topic has any less merit than a lot of what else gets posted here.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 07:01 PM

Sure, SC.

And, michaelr, you are right in that this isn't any worse than some of the other stuff, but most of that is belowstairs. Regardless, here it is and it gave me an opportunity to learn about this "boy child" and know that I do not like him or his music. Thanks for that.

kat


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 07:19 PM

Correction: Based on what I have read and watched and listened to, I do not like him or his music.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 07:50 PM

Well, kat....did you read this?.....
(taken from above)


>>>Monday, April 07, 2008
John Mayer's Back To You Fund Provides Inner City Students With Musical Start

Fifth grader Tyler Greer, 10, plays the cello during ... (Autumn Pinette/ Connecticut Post )

Fourth grader Joshua Ortiz, 9, plays the violin during Waltersville School's Christmas Hanukkah Kwanzaa Program December 21 in the auditorium. Violin instruction at the school is funded in part by grants including John Mayer's Back to You Fund. (Autumn Pinette/ Connecticut Post )

Mayer's Back to You Fund, administered by the Wilton-based Fairfield County Community Foundation, has provided $22,000 for the 2007-08 academic year for MACH's Music Zone strings program, established in 2002 at Waltersville and Luis Munoz Marin schools.

At Waltersville, the grant is one of the program's major sources of funding (in addition to state Priority School District Program funds)(More...)<<<<




And this?
(below is taken from that link)

Philanthropic activities
In 2002, Mayer began the "Back To You" Fund, a non-profit organization that focuses on fundraising in the areas of health care, education, the arts, and talent development. The foundation raises funds through the auction of exclusive John Mayer items, such as guitar picks, t-shirts, and signed CDs, made available on Mayer's auction site. The auctions have been successful, with some tickets selling for more than seventeen times their face value.[59][60]

In an April 2007 blog entry, Mayer announced a new effort to help reverse global warming, dubbed "Another Kind of Green" (originally "Light Green", but changed because of copyright concerns).[61] He invisioned it mostly as a line of "products that are cheap, easy alternatives to cut down on plastics," and encouraging others to do the same through his blog.[62] He has also converted his tour bus to bio-diesel fuel.[62] Mayer also participated at the East Rutherford, New Jersey location of the Live Earth project, a musical rally to support awareness for global warming held on July 7, 2007.[63] In the summer of 2007, the environmental advocacy group Reverb set up informational booths and helped his crew conserve energy on his tour dates.[64]

Mayer has performed at a number of benefits and telethons for charity throughout his career. In response to the Virginia Tech massacre, Mayer (along with Dave Matthews Band, Phil Vassar, and NaS) performed a free concert at Virginia Tech's Lane Stadium on September 6, 2007.[65] On December 8, 2007, Mayer hosted the First Annual Charity Revue, a tradition he has continued each year. Charties who have benefited from the concerts include Toys for Tots, Inner City Arts, and the Los Angeles Mission.[66] Both CDs and DVDs of the first concert were released under the title "Where the Light Is" in July 2008. It has not been announced whether the DVD proceeds will go to charity or not.[67] Mayer also appeared on Songs for Tibet, a celebrity initiative to support Tibet and the Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso.[68]



Or this?

(and taken from there..)

>>>Charity biography
Mayer founded the Back To You Fund to raise money for health care, education, the arts, and talent development through auctions of exclusive John Mayer items, such as guitar picks, t-shirts, and signed CDs.

Mayer strives to be environmentally aware, and has partnered with Incase (a manufacturer of iPod, laptop and guitar cases) to produce items such as reusable grocery bags and water bottles.

He donated his song, Say, to the Bring Change 2 Mind campaign, which serves as the anthem for the movement.
Causes supported
Children, Creative Arts, Education, Environment, Health, Mental Challenges, Physical Challenges, Unemployment/Career Support, Veteran/Service Member Support


Charities & foundations supported
John Mayer has supported the following charities:

Bridge School
Bring Change 2 Mind
Exploring The Arts
Live Earth
Michael J. Fox Foundation
Military Outreach Ministry Camp Pendleton
MusiCares
NCIRE - the Veterans Health Research Institute
Tiger Woods Learning Center<<<<


And this:
The Auction Page, which raises money for his Back To You charity

And of course...this?

(taken from above)

>>>The 2nd Annual Holiday Charity Revue was held as well at the Nokia Theater in Los Angeles on December 6, 2008. Proceeds from the event were donated to the local non-profit organizations Toys for Tots and the Los Angeles Food Bank. Concert attendees were encouraged to bring an unwrapped toy with a value of $10 or more. British singer-songwriter Adele opended up for him that night. The concert was named On His Own, because John Mayer performed the whole concert alone with the assistance of a drum machine and a recorder to overdub his guitar.<<<


Don't believe *all* of the bad press you read about him.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 05:10 AM

What a big surprise. Celebrity says things or does things to grab headlines the gives big apology to grab even more headlines. Judging by the above I would guess that this chap is about to open a free school for disabled youngsters or start to ffed the satrving millions. Which one do you reckon?

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 06:18 AM

I don't quite see the relevance of his charitable works to the subject of this thread.

On the face of it, this guy is racist, misogynist, and quite possibly other ists as well. His music is MOR, which is not particularly relevant either.

What is germane to the issue is that he uses his potty mouthed ability to offend, as a magnet to draw in audience who go there at least as much to see what new depths of bad taste he will achieve, as to listen to what is described as "his music".

As to charity, well, the world has been oversupplied with nasty people who have given money to charity, for a number of reasons, not all of which have been down to a love of their fellow man, (e.g. tax deductable, and in some cases to keep income below a higher tax band).

All in all, I'm not rushing out to buy tickets to listen, either to his music, or to his foul, tasteless, rants.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 07:49 AM

Whether or not you place John Mayer and his music closer to the Bubblegum or Blues end of the music spectrum one thing is certain -

to maintain that John Mayer is a victim of the 'nastiness of the journalists who follow him round' exhibits a stunning level of disingenuousness or a complete blind spot to someone who, with the aid of publicists, has courted the press beyond the aspirations of many other celebrities.

Described as the 'most angst-ridden playboy in rock' this 32 year old has placed himself and his 'relationships' with high profile 'celebrities' in the full glare of the media and has staged 'pranks' for the paparazzi.

His 'discourse with the tabloid media, including hosting a TMZ segment and getting in Twitter battles with Perez Hilton, culminated in an impromptu press conference outside of his gym in New York, where he explained why he had broken-up with Aniston.
The fall-out was unfavorable, and he was branded a "douchebag" for "saving face" '
Described at Wiki

Despite assertions that he would not be doing any more press he nevertheless gave an interview with Playboy magazine - posted to their website on February 10, 2010 and promoted as
'A candid conversation with the tabloids' favorite rock star about Jennifer Aniston, Jessica Simpson , being an honorary black man?'

As a self professed 'honorary black man' he assumed he could use the 'n word' as a self-referential identity term but critics felt that his interview was both misogynist, and racist - personally I would agree with that evaluation.


The relationship between celebrity and charity has always been open to some analysis.

With reference to the recent Haiti fund as on blogger said 'It's all well and good giving to charity because you care, but it's another thing expecting publicity off the back of it.
On that note, I'd like to thank all the celebrities and people who have given to Haiti and not broadcast it to anyone willing to listen.

AC/DC frontman Brian Johnson took on Bono and Bob Geldof for their public displays of charity work adding "I do it myself, I don't tell everybody I'm doing it,"


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 11:28 AM

I tell you what, Emma..I'll leave you to find out all the nasty things that folk have written about John Mayer. It obviously makes you feel good.

My kids have been following John's career for many years now...my daughter,in particular, knows a great deal about him. Basically, John never 'did' journalists well, dumb ones that is, and he's been made to suffer for it ever since.

Yes, he made stupid remarks. Some in here think it was all rigged, but won't you don't seem to understand is that John Mayer has no need whatsoever to rig anything. He's massive in the US.

Peronally, I hope this makes him shut down from the music industry, the press, and from bitter people who only love reading the bad things about people. It's what sells magazines about him, the horrible gossip.

I guess you'd better let Jennifer Aniston know he's a mysoginist though, as folks in here have judged him to be so, being that they think they know him better than he knows himself.

(Hmmmm..now *where* has that happened before??)

You guys ONLY want to believe the bad, so...go ahead and believe it.

And as for the comments from Brian Johnson about Bono and Bob Geldof, what a stupid man!!!!

Tell me, Emma, if Bono and Bob hadn't made 'Band Aid' or 'Live Aid' public, then how the fuck would so many millions of pounds and dollars have been raised, right around the world????

I have no problem with folks who make their charity work public, because it encourages others to think a little deeper, dig a little deeper and maybe view the world in a very different way.

Johm Mayer's site is NOT about "Hey, man, here I AM! The BIG charity donater!"   He just gets on with it, even down to doing the gigs himself...

Geez!

Such bitterness......upsets me to read things like that...bad news and bitter news..and the thing is, I guess some folks only feel good when they find it.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 11:53 AM

"I tell you what, Emma..I'll leave you to find out all the nasty things that folk have written about John Mayer. It obviously makes you feel good."

I'll leave you to read the Playboy interview Lizzie - I hope it makes you feel better than it did me.

"Peronally, I hope this makes him shut down from the music industry, the press, and from bitter people who only love reading the bad things about people. It's what sells magazines about him, the horrible gossip"

Personally, I hope this makes him, as others have hoped, shut TFU and stop courting publicity at any price

"You guys ONLY want to believe the bad, so...go ahead and believe it."

and this doesn't apply to you? You never blindly believe things you see written and copy and paste for the instruction of the rest of us ?

"And as for the comments from Brian Johnson about Bono and Bob Geldof, what a stupid man!!!! "

He is entitled to his opinions too Lizzie - you are entitled not to share them; look, you are even entitled to call him supid for his beliefs!
Do you extend that privilege to others?

"Such bitterness......upsets me to read things like that"

What a coincidence - it really makes me feel quite nauseous to read some of the subjective saccharine sweet, candy floss pink fluffy stuff, I come across too.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: RevGeo
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 11:53 AM

When someone 'hits the big time' it never 'just happens'. One must make a concentrated effort towards that end. Just as no one becomes a lawyer or doctor or politician because it 'just happens'.

Just sayin'...

Rev George


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 12:34 PM

"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."   M Twain

Liz, you're wasting your time on this thread. The usuals who attack you on ANY thread are doing so on this one, too. Same shit, different day. I disagree with your contentions about JM's artistry (but certainly his charitable work is nice to hear about).

In this instance he behaved like an arsehole. Certainly not the first or last person to do so.

Keep well, kiddo.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 12:45 PM

"The usuals who attack you on ANY thread are doing so on this one, too. Same shit"

Well silly me! I was under the impression that I was 'attacking' what John Mayer said.
Personally I find his casual references to 'fags' as well his remarks about race and his ex girlfriends very offensive

- but somehow everything becomes a personal attack on Lizzie if you disagree with HER viewpoint.

As it happens I share your opinions about his songs too Bruce.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 12:53 PM

If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, don't!


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 12:55 PM

The usuals who attack you on ANY thread are doing so on this one, too. Same shit, different day.

Simply not true.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 12:59 PM

If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, don't!


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 01:03 PM

that's fair enough

In my opinion - 'he behaved like an arsehole'


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 01:36 PM

Thanks, Bruce...I'll take your advice and leave them to themselves.

I fully appreciate you not liking his music, by the way...I never have had a problem with that, with anyone's music or other liking/disliking it. 'One man's meat...' etc..

What I've always had a problem with is folks who use messageboards to put the boot in to others, be they musicians or anyone else.

Sadly, the internet has way too many of them.

I've also said that he made a big mistake, but I also think it's one he'll learn from and that it will change his way of behaving, which can only be for the better.

Just for the record, my daughter, who knows more about John Mayer than probably everyone in here, told me that John never wanted to sing, as he was far too shy. He simply wanted to play his guitar, but the record company insisted that if he wanted his music out there, that had to be part of the deal. I happen to like his voice, it's very distinctive...


Sometimes, very shy people behave oddly to others, in order to be able to cope...They don't always recognise their behaviour as odd though.

That's all.


OK, I'm outta here.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 01:43 PM

"What I've always had a problem with is folks who use messageboards to put the boot in to others, be they musicians or anyone else."

What *I've* always had a problem with is people who abuse their public role and access to the media as a muscian, or anything else, to spout off casual offensive remarks for publicity purposes.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: jeddy
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 01:54 PM

nohing bout the thread itself as i have never heard of him and haven't been following any links and in fact have only read a few posts. so shout at me. isn't it strange that a certain someone jumped on me for mentioning their kids, when they are now being banded around here like some sort of trophy?

just my take, but someone can be a bad person but do good for charity too. it doesn't make any difference to someones personality!


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 02:13 PM

Drawing attention to the rubbish some people spout is not an attack its merely education!


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 02:31 PM

First, John Mayer, whatever his other talents, is an inept blues player. He has one warmed over BB King lick that he hasn't quite learned, and that's about it.

Second--He has, however, learned the "The Paris Hilton Lesson", which is "Bad behavior is good publicity."

Third-- Mayer makes Clapton look like he appeals to young audiences, Clapton makes Mayer look like he appeals to Clapton fans. It was worked out by the Marketing people.

Fourth--For you, Joe--if you Google "Racist Prick", this thread title comes up in the top five--because we carry Google Ads, all current Mudcat thread titles always show up at the top of search terms. I'm not telling you to edit the title, I'm just telling you-


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 03:00 PM

I happened to watch The Bucket List last night - the theme song, "Say," was written and recorded by John Mayer. It's a nice-enough generic pop song. Because of this thread, I listened to a number of John Mayer recordings. Seems to me he's a reasonably capable pop musician with maybe a hint of a blues tone to his music - but he's no blues genius. I see that even his Wikipedia article calls him a douchebag (quoting somebody). Mayer sounds young, and he is - 32. Maybe he'll grow up.

I agree with your comment about the thread title, Ted. I do think that there are Mudcatters who post things in provocative terms - hoping that Google will bring the trolls our way, maybe so they can do battle with the evil trolls and feel heroic. I think I'll take your advice an change the thread title. I have no problem with "so-and-so is a racist prick" in the text of a message, but I question its use as a thread title. We've long had a policy that thread titles are supposed to describe the contents of a thread, not make editorial comments. After all, we're not FoxNews here.....

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' Mayer is a racist prick
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 03:13 PM

32 isn't young for a pop musician, Joe--it's well past the age for "Pop", and into "Adult Contemporary"--


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 04:08 PM

Yeah, Ted, I suppose most music star careers are over by the age of 35. My son the punk-rocker is 37, and I have to be careful what I say to him about age. But at 37, he's finally beginning to learn that saying inflammatory things may not always be the best way to get along in this world. At 32, John Mayer doesn't seem to have learned that lesson yet.

Hell, at 61, I'm not sure I've completely learned that lesson. I claim to be a pacifist, but I don't always follow my own principles.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 04:11 PM

Thank you for changing the title, Joe.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 04:12 PM

You try. That's what's important.

Good title change, btw.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 04:21 PM

At least you have principles, Joe. And what fun would life be if we always followed our principles?;-) Also, though I may take some flak for agreeing with our own Lizzie, thank you for changing the title.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 05:41 PM

Good call on the thread title.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 06:23 PM

Good call, though I would've sacked the question mark...


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 07:52 PM

""Tell me, Emma, if Bono and Bob hadn't made 'Band Aid' or 'Live Aid' public, then how the fuck would so many millions of pounds and dollars have been raised, right around the world????""

Either you are being deliberately obtuse, or you are once again missing the point.

"Band Aid", and "Live Aid", were not examples of somebody giving to charity, and using that fact for purposes of self aggrandisement. In both cases they were about persuading others to donate, and that of course is impossible without publicity. It is of course possible for both poor, and unknown, people to do this.

The other side of the coin is somebody donating their own money to charity (the case with Mr Mayer), and that can be done without any publicity at all, unless of course the publicity was the whole point of doing it in the first place.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 08:10 PM

""I've also said that he made a big mistake, but I also think it's one he'll learn from and that it will change his way of behaving, which can only be for the better.""

A "big mistake", Lizzie, is something that you do once (unless you are a complete idiot), realise you've dropped a ricket, and apologise.

You then make sure you never repeat it.

What we are discussing here is part of the act, deliberate and consistent. It isn't the first time a so-called entertainer has used foul and abusive material to put bums on seats at his gigs.

Remember Bernard Manning?

As to the usual subjects attacking poor defenceless Lizzie, I believe the target was John Mayer, being discussed quite seriously until, as happens on multiple threads, up jumps the West Country Defender with her tail on fire screaming about how badly treated he has been, by all and sundry, and of course claiming that he is a great musician (wrong) and entirely blameless (wrong again).

Lizzie makes such a habit of this kind of thing, that you would think she's earning her living at it, that is, if she were any good at it.

It is getting almost impossible to discuss anything without it being punctuated by these long whingeing screeds.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 05:00 AM

Did the OP agree to the censorship of his original thread title?


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: GUEST,Badjelly
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 10:06 AM

I think a man of superior intelligence, as John presumably is, could not possibly hold racist or sexist views if he is prepared to give an interview to a periodical which so evidently promotes the view that women are not merely ojects of sexual desire.
His music is the matter for debate, good bad or indifferent. It wouldn't do if we were all the same!
His charitable donations are to be commended and obviously earning a considerable amount, as apparently he is HUGE in the USA, he can afford to do this, thereby also off-setting them against his IRS bill.
Please bear in mind the maxim "if you can't say something good about someone them don't say anything at all"..following this advice would have caused this thread not to have come into being in the first place. Join and anti-fascist/racist/sexist organisation.
I only wish that some of the posts on this thread had been as eloquent and educated as that of Tom Bliss on another thread, adjacent to this one, concerning other guitarists.
Oh and Lizzie Cornish 1 - well done for sticking up for him but in the immortal words of " Just a Minute" REPETITION and DEVIATION .


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 10:45 AM

Playboy does that?


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 01:00 PM

Did the OP agree to the censorship of his original thread title?

No, I did not - wasn't even asked. I also take umbrage at this: ...there are Mudcatters who post things in provocative terms - hoping that Google will bring the trolls our way, maybe so they can do battle with the evil trolls and feel heroic. Never crossed my mind.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 01:05 PM

"if you can't say something good about someone them don't say anything at all".

I've always thought that pious little maxim is bullshit. When I see a spade, I'll be damned if I'll call it a teaspoon just so someone's dainty little feelings can be spared. Mayer needs to be called on his shit, if you'll excuse that colloquial expression, just as other public figures, especially politicians, need to be called on their shit.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: FolkGiant
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 01:57 PM

Give me a freaking break. Mayer is an asshole. He IS a very good guitarist, he knows how to write bubblegum pop that sells to the swoony-girl crowd, but, beyond that, he's a jerk.

Son House, for example, was vastly undereducated in comparison to someone like Mr. Mayer, was by far more underprivileged in just about every way. Oddly, Mr. House never succumbed to the stupid, tasteless and ridiculous racist themes that Mr. Mayer seems to think are de rigeur. Neither, for that matter, have DL Menard, Michael Doucet, Pete Seeger or many other CAUCASIAN artists who have, by virtue of their careers and legitimate credibility, definitely earned whatever "pass" Mayer dreams he's entitled to.

I have met BB King, and he comports himself as a true gentleman. I have met other LEGENDARY rock, folk and country artists, and none of them have ever had anything controversial to say PURELY FOR THE SAKE OF SHOCK VALUE or because they felt they had some non-existent "pass" to denigrate people. The things I have heard many of these people say have often been controversial, but they have been thought-provoking and the right to say them has been EARNED over LIFETIMES of work, struggle and varying success and failure. These men and women STILL did not lower themselves to act like morons.

When or IF Mr. Mayer ever earns the right to speak his mind so frankly, he will, deo volente, also have learned to say things that MATTER, not just things that will garner him more press.

P.S. I have played basketball in prison with black men. They complimented me on my ability to play. I have also played blues with seasoned veterans (also black) of the genre and sung Gospel music in front of award-winning black choir directors. Do you think for a minute that I all of a sudden earned some "pass" to start calling everyone "boy" or to do a black-face routine? This stupid white-boy fantasy of "earning a hood pass" is bullshit. I earned my stripes by playing and singing my heart out and my ass off, and white and black and all of that rot vanished. We respected each other. Mr. Mayer doesn't want real respect, he wants to be able to play-act the part of the "blues man" and still go back to his spoiled-brat rock star life at night.

He won't be remembered in 50 years as any more important or impactful than Dion or any of the others who earned their rep doing a pastiche of stereotypical "blues music" combined with blatantly derivative playing styles.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 02:09 PM

I am not concerned about the man's music.

It seems to me that what he said if correctly reported thoroughly earned the original epithet.

After that, I don't really care if he is a charitable racist who raises loads of money for good causes - he is still a racist, and the sexual nature of his comments makes him a racist prick.

It is of course possible that experience teaches one something about the frequency with which characteristics are found in races - for example Africans are more frequently black than English people from the leafier suburbs, and I am sure that cultures have behaviour patterns that differ from those of other cultures too, but there was a nasty appearance of conquest and condescension about Mayer's words.

It occurs to me to wonder if Mayer's name indicates Jewish descent? If so one could imagine mirroring remarks that might make him bridle - some of which might reflect attitudes I saw in people I knew who worked for a time on kibbutzes in the 60s and 70s, and which rather bothered me even then.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Emma B
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 02:36 PM

In reply to Richard -

Farai Chideya*, yes she is a journalist so probably damned already, expressed her views about Mayer's Playboy interview in The Huffington Post

On his remark

PLAYBOY: Do black women throw themselves at you?
MAYER: I don't think I open myself to it. My dick is sort of like a white supremacist. I've got a Benetton heart and a fuckin' David Duke cock.

She writes

"I've interviewed white supremacists, and the punchline to this joke falls... limp. I can roll with some pretty raw or adventurous humor, but this fratboyesque ahistorical cheap shot shows a profound misunderstanding of of white supremacy.
Today's white supremacists may decry "miscegenation," but white supremacy resulted in an awful lot of race mixing -- the forceable kind.

Mayer's father is Jewish and I wonder how much he knows or cares to about the violent history of white surpremacists towards Jews in the US and abroad.

But what I just said sounds too on-the-nose and preachy even for my own tastes.

The reality is that it's insulting to say black people love you and then profoundly misunderstand the difference between entitlement and humor.
The entitlement goes beyond race to (again, boorish) comments about women by name and generally, and an obsession with generalizing his experiences at 32 as if every man shares the same perspective


*She has won various awards for her work: a special award from the Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association for AIDS reporting in 2008; an Enterprise reporting award from the National Association of Black Journalists for a piece on Skid Row in 2007; a North Star Award for covering communities of color in 2006; a distinguished honoree award from the Black Entertainment and Telecommunications Association in 2004; a MOBE IT Innovator Award and an Alternet New Media Hero award for PopandPolitics.com in 2001; New York Public Library's Best Books for Teens for The Color of Our Future in 2000; a WIN Young Women of Achievement Award in 1996; a GLAAD Award from Spin Magazine in 1995; and a National Education Reporting Award and an EdPress award for education reporting done for "Newsweek" in 1994.


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 02:49 PM

It upsets me that so many of you guys only ever choose to see the bad in people, go looking for it...but there you go, that's your outlook on everything in life I guess.

And here, once again, is John saying sorry, as the original link is a little lost in these three pages worth of comments..

John Mayer's Apology on Youtube

Take from it what you want.

I know what I'm taking.



and now, I really am out of this..


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Subject: RE: 'Bluesman' John Mayer - racism?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 08:48 PM

Promise?


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