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Lyr Req: Darby and Joan

puisin@olypen.com 03 Aug 99 - 02:11 AM
Joe Offer 03 Aug 99 - 03:20 AM
Joe Offer 03 Aug 99 - 03:22 AM
Joe Offer 03 Aug 99 - 01:03 PM
Joe Offer 04 Aug 99 - 12:42 AM
Jim Dixon 23 Feb 04 - 02:52 AM
Jim Dixon 13 Oct 06 - 09:35 AM
nutty 13 Oct 06 - 03:53 PM
Jim Dixon 13 Sep 07 - 11:16 PM
Jim Dixon 03 Dec 11 - 06:58 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 03 Dec 11 - 07:54 PM
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Subject: Darby and Joan
From: puisin@olypen.com
Date: 03 Aug 99 - 02:11 AM

Searching for ballad composed by Henry Woodfall ca. 1730-1735, dedicated to John and Joan Darby (John died 1730). Woodfall served his apprenticeship under John Darby, admired him very much and wrote of Joan: "As chaste as a picture cut in alabaster. You might sooner move a Scythinan rock than shoot fire into her bosom." There are now Darby and Joan Clubs all across the UK; the only prerequsite being having been in the same marriage for at least 40 years. Please cc response to sheldonposen@cyberus.ca


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Subject: Lyr Add: DARBY AND JOAN (Weatherly/Molloy, 1909)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 99 - 03:20 AM

Well, I can't find the song you're looking for, but I did find one interesting one that may come for the 19th century. Your post solved a question I've had for a long time about "The Folks Who Live on the Hill." I'll post that, too.
-Joe Offer-

DARBY AND JOAN
(words: F.E. Weatherly music: L. Molloy)
from Heartsongs, Chapple Publishing Co., 1909


Darby dear, we are old and gray,
Fifty years since our wedding day,
Shadow and sun for everyone
As the years roll on;
Darby dear, when the world went wry,
Hard and sorrowful then was I.
Ah, lad, how your cheered me then.
"Things will be better, sweet wife, again!".

Chorus:
Always the same, Darby my own,
Always the same to your old wife Joan,
Always the same to your old wife Joan.

Darby dear, but my heart was wild
When we buried our baby child,
Until you whispered "Heaven knows best!"
And my heart found rest;
Darby dear, 'twas your loving hand
Showed me the way to the better land;
Ah! lad, as you kissed each tear,
Life grew better and heaven more near.
CHORUS

Hand in hand when our life was May,
Hand in hand when our hair is gray,
Shadow and sun for everyone
As the years roll on;
Hand in hand when the long night-tide
Gently covers us side by side;
Ah! lad, though we know not when,
Love will be with us forever then.
CHORUS

JRO
^^
Click here to get to the tune at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE FOLKS WHO LIVE ON THE HILL (1937)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 99 - 03:22 AM

THE FOLKS WHO LIVE ON THE HILL
(words: Oscar Hammerstein II music: Jerome Kern)
©1937 by T.B. Harms Company


Some day we'll build a home on a hilltop high, you and I,
Shiny and new, a cottage that two can fill.
And we'll be pleased to be called
"The folks who live on the hill."

Some day we may be adding a thing or two, a wing or two,
We will make changes as any family will,
But we will always be called
"The folks who live on the hill."


Our verandah will command a view of meadows green,
The sort of view that seems to want to be seen.
And when the kids grow up and leave us,
We'll sit and look at that same old view,
Just we two, Darby and Joan who used to be Jack and Jill,
The folks who like to be called
What they have always been called
"The folks who live on the hill."
^^
JRO


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Subject: RE: Darby and Joan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 99 - 01:03 PM

I wanted to bring this thread to the top. Somebody out there must have an answer.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Darby and Joan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 99 - 12:42 AM

Darn! There's GOT to be an answer. I even wrote to Bruce Olson, and he couldn't find it. Here's what he said:
There is a slip song in the Madden collection of broadsides (c 1775-1825) called "Old Darby and Joan", commencing 'Dear Chloe, whilst thus beyond measure". I don't have any copy of it.
Anybody?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Darby and Joan
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 02:52 AM

Copied from http://www.abc.net.au/classic/breakfast/stories/s730775.htm:
    Darby and Joan is the name that is given to an elderly couple. More precisely, it's traditionally used of idealised, elderly, harmonious couple. It's an expression that baffled me when I was a child. My memory is of first hearing applied to retirement units, which were described as Darby and Joan units. If you'd asked me to guess I would have thought this was a 20th century expression. In fact, it's much older than that. Much older. It comes from a ballad written by Henry Woodfall and published in the Gentleman's Magazine (in London) in 1735. The third stanza runs:

    Old Darby with Joan by his side
    You've often regarded with wonder
    He's dropsical, she is sore-eyed
    Yet they never are happy asunder

    The characters in the ballad are said to be based on John Darby of Bartholomew close (who died in 1730) and his wife Joan. (Henry Woodfall, the author of the ballad, served his apprenticeship under John Darby.)
I found that same stanza quoted in several places, but I did not find the complete text.

Another site says the title of Woodfall's poem was "The Joys of Love Never Forgot."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Darby and Joan
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:35 AM

"Ulysses Annotated" by Don Gifford has this entry:
    14.1419 (423:35) Darby Dullman there with his Joan ? Darby and Joan are an elderly couple who live in marital felicity, indifferent to the society of others, in Henry Sampson Woodfall's (1739-1805) ballad "The Happy Old Couple; or, The Joys of Love Never Forgot." The speaker tells his "Dear Chloe" that they must love in their youth in order to enjoy in old age the "current of fondness" that is shared by "dropsical" Darby and "sore-eyed" Joan, who still "possess" neither "beauty nor wit."
Copied from Google Book Search.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Darby and Joan
From: nutty
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:53 PM

This Bodleian broadside seems to fit into the above category.

The Fireside


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Subject: Lyr Add: ADVICE TO CHLOE (Henry Woodfall?)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:16 PM

Google Book Search found this in The poetical works of Vincent Bourne, consisting of originals and translations. To which are added his letters. by Vincent Bourne; London: Longman, Hurst, Rees, & Orme, 1808. It has a Latin translation on the facing page. I assume the Latin is Bourne's work, and he cribbed the English from some uncredited source, possibly Henry Woodfall.
^^
ADVICE TO CHLOE

I.
Dear Chloe, while thus beyond measure,
You treat me with doubts and disdain,
You rob all your youth of its pleasure,
And hoard up an old age of pain.
Your maxim, that love is still founded
On charms that will quickly decay,
You'll find to be very ill grounded,
When once you its dictates obey.

II.
The love, that from beauty is drawn,
By kindness you ought to improve;
Soft looks and gay smiles are the dawn,
Fruition's the sun-shine of love:
And though the bright beams of your eyes
Should be clouded, that now are so gay,
And darkness possess all the skies,
We ne'er can forget it was day.

III.
Old Darby, with Joan by his side,
You've often regarded with wonder;
He's dropsical, she is sore-ey'd,
Yet they're ever uneasy asunder.
Together they totter about,
Or sit in the sun at the door;
And at night, when old Darby's pot's out,
His Joan will not smoke a whiff more.

IV.
No beauty nor wit they possess,
Their several failings to smother;
Then what are the charms, can you guess,
That make them so fond of each other?
'Tis the pleasing remembrance of youth,
The endearments which youth did bestow;
The thoughts of past pleasure and truth,
The best of our blessings below.

V.
These traces for ever will last;
No sickness or time can remove;
For when youth and beauty are past,
And age brings the winter of love;
A friendship insensibly grows,
By reviews of such raptures as these;
The current of fondness still flows,
Which decrepit old age cannot freeze.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE JOYS OF LOVE NEVER FORGOT (H Woodfall
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 06:58 PM

This seems to be the original printing of the poem. I have boldfaced the words that are different from the version I posted earlier. Apart from that, and adding verse numbers, I have attempted to reproduce the original typography.

From The Gentleman's Magazine, Vol. 5 (London: Printed by Edward Cave, March, 1735), page 153:

The Joys of Love never forgot. A SONG.

[1]
DEAR Chloe, while thus beyond measure,
    You treat me with doubts and disdain,
You rob all your youth of its pleasure,
    And hoard up an old age of pain.
Your maxim, that love's only founded
    On charms that will quickly decay,
You'll find to be very ill grounded,
    When once you its dictates obey.

[2]
The passion from beauty first drawn,
    Your kindness would vastly improve;
Your sight and your smiles are the dawn,
    Possession's the sun-shine of love:
And tho' the bright beams of your eyes
    Shou'd be clouded, that now are so gay,
And darkness possess all the skies,
    Yet we ne'er shall forget it was day.

[3]
Old DARBY, with JOAN by his side,
    You've often regarded with wonder;
He's dropsical, she is sore-ey'd,
    Yet they're ever uneasy asunder.
Together they totter about,
    Or sit in the sun at the door;
And at night, when old Darby's pot's out,
    His Joan will not smoke a whiff more.

[4]
No beauty nor wit they possess,
    Their several failings to smother;
Then what are the charms, can you guess,
    That make them so fond of each other?
'Tis the pleasing remembrance of youth,
    The endearments which youth did bestow;
The thoughts of past pleasure and truth,
    The best of our blessings below.

[5]
Those traces for ever will last,
    Where sickness or time can't remove;
For when youth and beauty are past,
    And age brings the winter of love;
A friendship insensibly grows,
    By reviews of such raptures as these;
The current of fondness still flows,
    Which decrepit old age cannot freeze.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Darby and Joan
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 07:54 PM

From Brewer: Character sketches of romance, fiction and the drama. A revised American edition of the Readers' handbook, Volume I, (1892)


"Darby and Joan. This ballad, called
The Happy Old Couple, is printed in the
Gentleman's Magazine, v. 153 (March, 1735).
It is also in Plumtre's Collections of Songs,
152 (Camb. 1805), with the music. The
words are sometimes attributed to Prior,
and the first line favors the notion: "Dear
Chloe, while thus beyond measure;" only
Prior always spells Chloe without "h."
Darby and Joan are an old-fashioned,
loving couple, wholly averse to change of
any sort. It is generally said that Henry
Woodfall was the author of the ballad,
and that the originals were John Darby
(printer, of Bartholomew Close, who died
1730) and his wife Joan. Woodfall served
his apprenticeship with John Darby.
"You may be a Darby [31r. Hardcastle], but
I'll be no Joan, I promise you."-Goldsmith, She
Stoops to Conquer, i. 1 (1773)."



It appears in several late 18th and early 19th century collections under several titles. (I saw one Colin's Complaint IIRC, and Roud lists Old Darby and Joan from The British Orpheus of 1820 and one Old Darby in a BL ms).

Mick


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