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BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Ebbie Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:52 PM "I like to wipe my combat boots on fascists' faces.." Amergin Just for the record, 'gin, but that is an extraordinarily offensive sentiment. I understand that it's hyperbolic but... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:33 PM Seems like a plan Fred, but the bad news is that another fake profile of me appeared mid afternoon, with just one letter altered, which allowed it to slide by them. I've demanded the blocking of the offender's ISP, but I'm not holding my breath. Nevertheless, if these shitheads think they've won, they'd better think again. I'm going nowhere, and I won't be silenced. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 03 Mar 10 - 11:09 AM That leaves me with but one option. Join, complain, and leave immediately the complaint has been resolved. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Mar 10 - 10:32 AM Right folks, pretty much as I expected, Bebo have reacted with speed, and the false identity of me has been removed, or to be more accurate, a search either by name or username comes back "No profile found under that name". However, of the other nine I reported, not one has been removed. It seems you have to report in person, and only members can do so. Call me a cynic if you will, but setting it up that way means nine more members for Bebo, who are competing with Farcebook and Shitter, among others. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Amergin Date: 03 Mar 10 - 05:43 AM I like to wipe my combat boots on fascists' faces.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 03 Mar 10 - 04:51 AM Don, Thanks.Let us know how you get on. Fred |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 02 Mar 10 - 06:38 PM ""Fred McCormick [folkM3] - Picture BNP membership card purporting to be Fred." Don. I've only just seen this. Needless to say it's a complete con, probably posted by our old friend who used to post on this site under multiple aliases. With the exception of Mudcat and similar message boards, I'm not into social networking and am not familiar with Bebo. How does one go about getting this picture removed?"" Don't bother taking action at the moment Fred. Earlier today I put in a suitably snotty report to Bebo, giving the whole list of IDs and demanding action. I received an acknowledgement within an hour, saying they would deal with it, so I suggest we wait for twenty four hours, to see what, if anything, they do. I made some pretty pointed references to a couple of enthusiastic journalists I happen to know. You have to join the rotten site to access their report facilities, and I've yet to come across any dirct way of making contact. Watch this space. BTW, I was only too aware that none of the people being defamed by these clowns are actually BNP supporters, though we do know we have a couple on Mudcat. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 02 Mar 10 - 09:36 AM "Fred McCormick [folkM3] - Picture BNP membership card purporting to be Fred." Don. I've only just seen this. Needless to say it's a complete con, probably posted by our old friend who used to post on this site under multiple aliases. With the exception of Mudcat and similar message boards, I'm not into social networking and am not familiar with Bebo. How does one go about getting this picture removed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 02 Mar 10 - 09:22 AM "Based upon this thread thus far many simply believe that you can alienate and exclude a person from music and our community just because of political views. Sad." You say "just because of political views" like it's of no more importance than ones preference for coffee over tea or draught beer over bottled, to borrow from one of your other threads. Well, political views define a person like taste preferences never could, and if you espouse repugnant political views then YOU are repugnant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 01 Mar 10 - 09:03 AM You are obviously right, Mike, in the case of Mudcat, but when reporting to Bebo the angle brackets are part of the username. For that reason, and not knowing the likely outcome, I used them. I'll know better in future LOL. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: MGM·Lion Date: 01 Mar 10 - 08:34 AM I too have found, Don, that using angle-brackets except for html causes the content to vanish ~ presumably they are only programmed to respond to html instrucions on this site. So now I use one of [], {}, (), all of which seem to respond OK. Michael |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 01 Mar 10 - 07:22 AM I fell foul of html, which I absolutely don't comprehend, and lost all the IDs. They were in the angle brackets we use to enclose bold, italic, or underline commands, and they all vanished. Can one of our clones please recover them, or should I re-list without brackets? Don T.
[fixed- be careful--a clone] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 01 Mar 10 - 07:17 AM Eleven new fake profiles on Bebo, all of whom are asking to be added to my friends list. Usual unprintable response from me! Bebo unterested in complaints, so WHAT ELSE IS NEW? IDs are:- Wysiwyg Thompson [donthompsonbnp] - Picture photoshopped, me playing for nasty Nick. Richard Hoff Bridge [richardhoffbridge] - No Picture. Jeddy Rose [JeddyRose] - Usual picture. Mudcat Cafe [Mudcat BNP] - Picture Unknown (to me) woman. Fred McCormick [folkM3] - Picture BNP membership card purporting to be Fred. Katlaughing [katlaughingbnp] - Picture supposed to be of Kat. John Barden [JohnB4641] - Picture photoshopped, John playing with BNP ad behind. Joan Crump Bruce Murdoch [BruceM0544] - Head shot of man with painted face. Virginia Tam [vivvtam] - Picture of Tam. Richard Hoff Bridge [hoffbridge] Picture of Richard, flipped to make him a southpaw. All those bracketted items are the Bebo usernames of the fakes. I'm taking the lot to Bebo, and proclaiming them to be fakes. They can't then say that they were unable to find them. Step 2 will be a visit to the police, and a couple of enthusiastic journos. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 01 Mar 10 - 05:35 AM Don Firth "How about introducing the fascist and the alligator to each other?" An excellent idea, always provided it's an anti-fascist alligator. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: mousethief Date: 28 Feb 10 - 05:30 PM Surely the fascist wouldn't be intolerant. O..O =o= |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don Firth Date: 28 Feb 10 - 02:34 PM All too true, Fred. But I have an alternative. How about introducing the fascist and the alligator to each other? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Bill D Date: 28 Feb 10 - 10:08 AM Like I said...if I knew they were fascists, the alligator would have found an empty hall.....and even given your premises, the alligator would gotten only one.....and I don't like messy halls. (I appreciate humor, and I don't like folks like fascists when they are acting like fascists....but I WILL keep my priorities and my head straight about exactly what the issues is and is not.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 28 Feb 10 - 05:26 AM Don Firth. "Yeah, I'm intolerant of fascists in the same way that I would be intolerant of a fourteen-foot alligator roaming free in my neighborhood." One slight quibble, namely that an alligator is not responsible for its actions or for the consequences of its actions. Human beings are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 28 Feb 10 - 05:02 AM If, however, you were giving a concert, and it was full of fascists concentrating hard on you, and you saw the 14 foot alligator come in at the back and they didn't, you'd try very hard to hold their attention, wouldn't you, while the 'gator got closer, and closer, and closer to them... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,999 Date: 27 Feb 10 - 06:29 PM That guest post was me. Forgot cookie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 27 Feb 10 - 06:28 PM You got that wrong GUEST. Should read 1. Think 2. Think again 3. Don't bother writing. Everybody here knows what to expect from Conrad, and nobody is really interested. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST Date: 27 Feb 10 - 06:19 PM Conrad, 1) think 2) write Try it in that order for a change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Bill D Date: 27 Feb 10 - 05:45 PM I'm intolerant of Nazis, Fascists, Ku Kluxers, Cannibals, sadists, child abusers, narrow-minded ideologues, ...........and those who can't separate a general concept from the practical application thereof. Them alligators is usually easier to identify than all them other nuisances. If I was doing a concert (perish the thought) and I had a full house of nothing but all those types I don't like, and didn't know it, there'd be little to react to. If they all came in wearing uniforms & buttons and trying to distribute literature, there would BE no concert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Feb 10 - 04:27 PM Yeah, I'm intolerant of fascists in the same way that I would be intolerant of a fourteen-foot alligator roaming free in my neighborhood. They do happen to have an established history, and it wouldn't be very rational not to be intolerant of them. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 27 Feb 10 - 04:24 PM Maybe you should crunch 'em up and make 'em into sandwiches? Then, you could sell 'em to Tesco's and then...they'd get eaten by people of different colours and religions...who'd burp contentedly, as they munched and munched and munched.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: mousethief Date: 27 Feb 10 - 04:07 PM Oh puh-leeze. O..O =o= |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 27 Feb 10 - 03:26 PM Just dawned on me that the Fascists have won- The have gotten a good number of folks here to join them in their intolerance and discrimination. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 27 Feb 10 - 12:49 PM ""undesirables and defectives" such as Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the handicapped, and anyone else that the leaders took a dislike to."" As pointed out by Don F! Given the views expressed by a leading official of the BNP, in relation to David Cameron's son, and I quote:- "After all, it's not worth keeping them alive, is it"? And another who said "Rape is no more important than force feeding a woman with chocolate" I'd say that those ideals gel quite nicely with the ideals of Nazi Germany, wouldn't you? Fascist is a mild word for what the BNP actually are, and racist is obviously true since it required legal action to stop them from excluding immigrants (especially black ones) from membership of the "Party". By all means alienate them, and any others of the same persuasion. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Riginslinger Date: 26 Feb 10 - 11:02 PM Actually, Fascism is the opposite of Communism. Ronald Reagan was told to embrace it by his handlers. Maybe that's why he rolled over on so many of his friends during the House UnAmerican Activities Commitee hearings. Or maybe it was because he was offered the chance to play the part of president in "The Dismantling of America." The play ran in Washington DC for eight years. I didn't like it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 26 Feb 10 - 08:34 PM Thanks Bill D By the way to clarify I dont think anyone should go out of their way to accommodate anyone fascists or seek out anything. If I knew that someone was a Fascist I and came wondering if a seat was free at a group sing or session I would say yes it is no one is sitting there join in. There would be no point in talking about politics and If he brought it up I would render my opinion of his views only when asked and that briefly. If he wanted to show or sing or play a fascist song I would consider doing so and then determine how I felt about the construction of lyrics, of the notes, and the fit between the two. If the lyrics were offensive I might note that I did not agree with them but if they maked good rhyme and went well with the notation then I would say so. Photographed by the correct photographer even a pile of manure can be a thing of beauty- you don't have to eat it unless you want to. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Bill D Date: 26 Feb 10 - 08:22 PM Did ANYONE bother to read artbrooks' post above? Most everyone is ignoring the difference between racism & fascism, and 'reading between the lines' at to whether Conrad supports either one. They are also making a big leap tossing the BNP into the discussion when it was not specified....it is more racist than fascist. I don't agree with his (Conrad's) 'suggestion' that anyone spend time going out of their way to accommodate fascists, or to seek out any music glorifying nasty political extremist politics.....and I have no idea why he bothered to start such a stupid thread (except maybe to stir things up)... sure did work, huh? *I* know how to deal with any sign the fascists...or Nazis...or the KKK...is coming to ANY 'folk' event in any open way! If I KNOW their affiliation, I ignore them...if they try to make their politics an issue, I'll help toss them out!!.....but why would they identify themselves just in order to attend a music event? Sheesh, folks.... condemn what is CLEAR... not just anything you assume is hidden in some off-the-wall post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 26 Feb 10 - 07:36 PM People should consider Umberto Eco's views on the nature of fascism. Well, right wing apologist twats should, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Spleen Cringe Date: 26 Feb 10 - 07:03 PM Personally, I think arguing about fascism on Mudcat with some knob who thinks you're weird if you don't want to have a pint with a paki-basher is going to make bugger all difference to the lives of people on the receiving end of racist violence. I also think all the armchair philosophical, oh-so-clever, post-modern debates about the tautology of "fascism" in 2010 are totally missing the point. Relect for one miserable moment, on what is happening to real victims of racism in the real world. Walk a mile in their shoes. Yes, yes, yes, you can smugly call someone a "fascist" for being resolutely anti-racist (because being "resolute" is suddenly a symptom of fascism for today's ultra-liberals, isn't it?). But at the end of the day, what the fuck is all that about? You scored a pissy little worthless point in a shitty "debate". Bully for you. Clap, clap, clap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: catspaw49 Date: 26 Feb 10 - 06:27 PM Dammit Cornhole old buddy....You must not be listening to me and you're still fuckin' up here! You've had threads here before where you pass on your bullshit but manage to garner a pity-vote for yourself and people are calling for me to stop calling you a broke-dick slimebag and telling you to lick my nutsack. But on this thread you're going off like sputtering Roman candle and you can only get other nutjobs like yourself to side with you. Ya' gotta' do a lot better.................. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Peter the Squeezer Date: 26 Feb 10 - 04:41 PM I don't want to alienate fascists. I want to vapourise them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Feb 10 - 03:49 PM There are it seems two forces at work. 1) The music that has lasted and continues to last belongs to the world--such as it is 2) As a person and musician I would not wish to associate with people who pervert the intent of that music If someone writes a song that has words with which I fundamentally disagee, I havw, do and will vote with my feet. That's to do with the music. Would I then want to have a beer with that person? I think not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don Firth Date: 26 Feb 10 - 03:42 PM You know, Virginia Tam, it goes even further than that. During the 1970s, I worked as an announcer at a classical music radio station in Seattle. One afternoon, as I was sitting with my feet propped up, with a cup of coffee in my hand, listening to a Beethoven symphony (and getting paid handsomely; I loved that job!), the telephone rang. It was an irate caller. In fact he was furious! He had a fairly think German accent, and in conversation with him (mainly his shouting at me!), I learned that he was a German Jew and had managed to escape from Germany about two steps before the storm troopers came and rounded up his family to take them to the death camps. He was furious because I was playing "Nazi music!!" "Nazi music!??" I said, incredulously. "But that's Beethoven!" Beethoven, the caller informed me, was one of Hitler's favorite composers!! It took some time to calm him down. I informed him that Beethoven had died in 1827, sixty-two years before Hitler was born (1889). Beethoven is one of the world's foremost composers, and millions and millions of people enjoy his music. If Hitler happened to be one of them, that was hardly Beethoven's fault. Or the fault of his music. He wouldn't be mollified. He shouted that he would no longer be listening to that station. Later in the day, I mentioned this to the program director. He shrugged his shoulders and said, "He was on the phone a couple of days ago because I played an overture from one of Wagner's operas. Hitler absolutely loved Wagner's music. He demanded that we not play Wagner anymore! If he does listen, he's going to be pretty upset, because this Saturday's Metropolitan Opera Broadcast is Wagner's Die Meistersinger!" Sorry if this music triggered unpleasant memories for the caller. But— Should it be banned because some homicidal maniac liked it? This fellow thought it should. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: mousethief Date: 26 Feb 10 - 03:17 PM I love how as long as peasant can share a folk song with a Hitler Youth or BNP member, he doesn't care what they go out and do later in the evening, be it spreading hatred or Kristallnacht. Dude your priorities are really messed up. O..O =o= |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: VirginiaTam Date: 26 Feb 10 - 03:02 PM So the German populace on the whole have abandoned their traditional music because of the associations with nazism. That is quite sad. When will the tarnish wear off do you think? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Amergin Date: 26 Feb 10 - 03:02 PM What crap, Conrad....anyone who has read your threads before knows how much of a bigoted small minded jerk you really are. You come out here and pretend to preach tolerance for everyone, when in actuality you just want to stir trouble with your filth and see what happens. Fascism may not be racist in and of itself.,...but it always seems to need a scapegoat in order to get people to accept them. Whether it be emigrants in the UK, muslims in the US, Jews in Germany, dire economic conditions like in Germany and Italy. It always seems to need to rule with fear. It is disgusting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Feb 10 - 02:58 PM "Based upon this thread thus far many simply believe that you can alienate and exclude a person from music and our community just because of political views. Sad." Much less sad than having trash like that around, imo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 26 Feb 10 - 02:48 PM It is a matter of notoriety that the nazi German association with Volkslieder has in effect left folk arts in Germany in the back rooms of museums ever since. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don Firth Date: 26 Feb 10 - 02:46 PM As to the matter of the relationship between music and any kind of totalitarian political system or belief: I recall a scene from the 1945 Hollywood bio-pic about pianist and composer Frederick Chopin (played by Cornel Wilde). Poland, the land of Chopin's birth, was under the domination of Russia. Early in the movie, before he had to flee to Paris, Chopin is playing piano for a group of people when a group of boisterous Russian soldiers came in. Chopin stopped playing until the interruption cease. The Russian soldiers took seats, then one of them imperiously waved at Chopin to continue playing. Chopin pushed the piano bench back, stood up, and said firmly, "I do not play for tsarist butchers!" Then he stalked out. Because of this, he had to flee for his life, joining a large number of Polish expatriates who fled their home country because of the Russian occupation. But he made his point. A man of courage and integrity. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 26 Feb 10 - 02:43 PM Hey don I don't really think they are coming to get you....really...they aren't! Wasn't George Bernard Shaw a Fascist? Lots of people read his work. I have no trouble with people from alternate lifeways or planets I just dont bother myself with what they are planning to do later in the evening. As said before that is their business and they won't be doing it to you. But who knows maybe they all run secret extermination camps....in which case....who knows....they may be out their just waiting, waiting..... Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST Date: 26 Feb 10 - 02:39 PM From *1 Peasant* Don- So you believe that folks should alienate all groups including life style choices that you dont agree with? I did not say that, and no, I don't believe that. You are trying to put words in my mouth. I am quite tolerant of many people whose lifestyles I don't necessarily agree with or would not choose for myself, and am, indeed, friendly with many whose lifestyles and personal philosophies and beliefs I do not share. But these people are not adherents to philosophies that espouse bigotry, world domination, and mass murder. BUT—I find it hard to be tolerant toward those who hold a philosophy that embraces institutionalized bigotry, world conquest, and the systematic obliteration of entire ethnic groups and categories of fellow human beings that they are prejudiced against. I would sooner welcome a nest of rattlesnakes into my home! Can't you sit down with a person and focus on anything else but politics? Of course I can! Don't be stupid! But remember: A person's political beliefs reflect their personal philosophy, attitudes toward others, and their sense of ethics. So it can't simply be ignored, either. A sad state of tolerance we see here. If you want to get a good idea of a "sad state of tolerance," take a good long look at the history and actions of the nations in which fascism held sway. Conrad, learn some history! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: VirginiaTam Date: 26 Feb 10 - 02:20 PM I found another fake profile of me on facebook. Too easy. All I have to do is look on the fake mudcat group http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mudcat/63332322845?ref=search&sid=1577167692.37875 and look at the friends list. I have reported it. So whoever you are you better go take it down and make another one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: VirginiaTam Date: 26 Feb 10 - 12:53 PM I cannot be arsed to read thread since my last post. Has anyone looked into or reported how the reputation of traditional songs from any country have suffered due to association with unpalatable ideology? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: frogprince Date: 26 Feb 10 - 12:44 PM Alienating them does sound like a pretty good idea. (Alienate does mean send them out there where the space aliens are, doesn't it?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Sawzaw Date: 26 Feb 10 - 12:26 PM fascism: A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on a relationship between business and the centralized government, business-and-government control of the market place, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state above individual rights. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 26 Feb 10 - 12:08 PM natzi folk clubs, gay folk clubs, african folk clubs, lesbian folk clubs, druggie folk clubs, carnifor folk clubs, church basement alcohol free folk clubs Who cares just so they are preserving the music and aiding in its transmission and that they are open to one and every all and don't bother me with their beliefs and try to convert me fine. Takes all kinds to sing in the choir. To think that someone would object to a folk club just because of the company managing it is terrible. Look into those who own and operate fast food places and you will find a very strange kettle of fish- I know of some of them. It simply does not matter. Just so they keep their hands and ideas to themsleves. Thank god someone is taking an interest in the music. Conrad |
