BS: Should you alienate Fascists?

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 09:45 AM

You have it wrong!

If a performer introduces their music with a political manefesto, political speech, at a music event then that is inappropriate.

If they sing as song with political content and without asking for support for the cause simply explains the context that is fine.

If a song has political content that is fine

If a performer has a political adjenda but does not inflict it on a crowd there primairly for music that is good too.

If I go to a music event I feel that appart from song content which can be of any political persuasion I do not want to have it turn out to be a platform to push a political line.

There is a difference.

I have been to some performances where it took ten minutes to sit through a political manefesto before and inbetween each song. The ones when they tell you to support xyz politico or xyz cause.

Songs can be about anything and are good no matter what they have in the lyrics.

They then are in the realm of art

Now if the performer goes to a political rally they can spout their politics and sing their songs as well.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 09:54 AM

The BNP espouses politics of hate. Politics of hate must be challenged, and artists and participants of the folk genre have every right to respond to the subvesrion of their folk activity by saying "Not in my name." This is what Folk Against Fascism is about. If our resident fascists and fascist apologists are uncomfortable with this, I'm afraid I won't be losing any sleep over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 10:05 AM

"Songs can be about anything and are good no matter what they have in the lyrics."

Okay; got a nice rap lyric for your:

Gonna rape your mamma, hump your sister
wear my dick down to a blister
Good God, muthafucka, kill a cop.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 10:06 AM

Fine
You can have a Folk Against Fascism political rally and play music

but

don't turn a folk venue, limited as they are into a political platform. It is just not appropriate.

You may sing political songs as can anyone

If you feel this restrictive remember I would also deny the Fascists the use of a folk music venue for what is a political speech with songs attached.

There are plenty of political forums you can take you message to. I don't go to political forums. When I go to musical events I want music not someones political manefesto.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 10:41 AM

Nope. It's you who have it wrong. I'll sing what I damn well like at whatever venue I choose and introduce it in whatever way I feel is appropriate. You're unlikely to be there but, if you are, tough - political comment is an integral part of folk music and if you don't like it, pop out for a beer. That's what I'd do if someone introduced a fascist theme - then I'd tell the person afterwards exactly what I thought of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 11:29 AM

Bands, promoters and venues choose to brand their events Folk Against Fascism gigs, or not. You are free to attend those gigs, or not. If you do not like an artist injecting politics into their music or into the patter that goes between songs, don't go to see that artist; don't buy their records. But it isn't up to you to tell them not to do it, anymore than it is up to an artist or promoter to tell you that you must attend their gigs or buy their records. Simples.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 11:42 AM

I don't think the question is about whether you should alienate fascists so much is whether you can, and maybe a bit about how it might be done.

Feel free to play Savior on your own time. If it's audience time, this audience member is likely going to think it's a falsely pious bit of public ego self-massaging.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 11:44 AM

""Jesus Ruth.....We, the Socialists and Commies, were only too happy to Co-opt and re-form folk music in our image.

Why the double standards?.....These double standards are much more dangerous than Mr Griffin, or any other politician.""

You re-formed it to fight against fascism, or at least the others in your movements who had a little sense did.

You did not use it as a stepping stone to get rid of black, or Asian, or Disabled people.

THAT, for the umpteenth time IS THE DIFFERENCE.

If you can't understand, get out of the bloody way, and et those who can get on with it.

You are a pain in the arse most of the time Ake, but never more so than when espousing a completely untenable argument.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 11:51 AM

""I object to coming to events and hearing political manefestos before I can hear the music for which I came. Yes songs are historically sung at political rallies. I do not attend political rallies.""

You have no idea how much pleasure it gives me to hear that.

Now I can be sure I will find at least one less BNP apologist at the next FAF gig.

It has obviously passed right over your head Conrad, but the purpose of the FAF is to oppose fascists, and racists, when they try to use folk music to further their vile agenda.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 11:59 AM

Woodie Guthrie had a somewhat similar agenda, and it didn't hurt folk music one bit. Allowing it to be associated with the intention to get rid of Black, Asian, Roma, and Disabled citizens of this country (and in due course, Jews, jazz musicians, and even folkies) will IMHO, destroy it.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 12:08 PM

If you keep your folk against fascism rally's out of general music oriented venues or music oriented forums like this one then fine. Feel free to oppose fascism whenever you wish in a political setting.

I do not and will not ever apologize for fascists however I will suggest, not tell, folk musicians that they should always tolerate music and those with differing political beliefs.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 01:46 PM

Just came back aboard.

Amazing!! You, Ake, are the one who wants to restrict the freedom of a specific class of people and generally put them in the same catagory as lepers, and I'm
Did I say "amazing?" Yes, I believe I did.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 01:47 PM

Conrad: thanks all the same, but FAF needs neither your approval nor your permission to programme gigs in mainstream music venues and we will continue to do so. People running their own FAF gigs, and bands, will also hold those gigs wherever they choose. You are, of course, free to stay away. But as we've nearly sold out the Southbank Centre's Queen Elizabeth Hall in less than a week, it looks like there are a fair few people who are happy to share our message.

Goodbye.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 01:53 PM

Inadvertently hit "Submit Message" prematurely, before completing HTML code. It should read

Just came back aboard.

Amazing!! You, Ake, are the one who wants to restrict the freedom of a specific class of people and generally put them in the same catagory as lepers, and I'm the "disgusting bully?"

Did I say "amazing?" Yes, I believe I did.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 02:28 PM

Have fun with your political rally s. I would need a plane ticket anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 02:36 PM

Don....I dont think you are a bully.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 03:43 PM

"You re-formed it to fight against fascism, or at least the others in your movements who had a little sense did"

You're not often right Don, but I'm afraid you're wrong again.
The folkies of the revival in the UK, co opted the music to fight Capitalism and all the evils that it spawns.....the exploitation of workers, blacks,Vietnamese citizens, and people like you, who were and still are, paid up members of a stinking manipulative and morally corrosive economic and social system.

Now that was something worth fighting for.......Folk against Fascism...dont make me fuckin' laugh, Jeri was right , just massaging your egos....why dont you find a real cause, do you think any real fascists give two fucks for what a couple of hundred geriatric folkies think?

Try to drag yourself back into the real world, the Fascists that Woody wanted to kill were a danger....and supported by the UK and US while they were keeping the Commies in check....they were easy to define, they wore the uniform and the badges, they goose stepped and sported Charlie Chaplin moustaches and were virulently anti -Communist

Your "Fascists" wear business suits with beer bellies hanging over the waistband just like you and the guy next door.
They have opinions, bigotries, prejudices, just like you and the guy next door.
Sad deluded bastards, just like you and the guy next door
In fact, to all intents and purposes they ARE you and the guy next door!

You and your ilk are no revolutionaries like Woody or his comrades, you're not even freedom fighters...you're just sad old reactionaries.....Don T Quixote....tilting at windmills!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 04:08 PM

Just a siggestion, Ake, to avoid confusion. If you would distinguish between "Don T." and "Don F.," it would help to know who you are talking to or about.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 04:26 PM

Don F...I don't think you are a bully.
I think you are a decent reasonable guy who sometimes gets a little overwrought...like most of us!
I think you are 100% sincere in what you post, and I'm sorry we have "fallen out".

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 04:37 PM

Using music for a political cause is traditional

However, it does not always serve the music or tradition to continually divide the potential audience and send one par away.

One of the reasons spend time with folk music is that they would rather not go to political rallys and escape the media politics once in a while.

Have you political rally play whatever music you want but dont use the term folk music to describe what is essentially a political event.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 05:10 PM

Me too, Ake. I think if we were face to face over a couple of brews, we could more easily express our viewpoints and, if not eventually come to agree, at least not wind up flinging insults at each other.

####

*#1 PEASANT*, many political songs spring from the folk (indeed, that's the source of most of them, for obvious reasons), and to try to ban them from folk venues would be about like trying to ban a whole category of songs, such as sea chanteys because someone prone to sea-sickness might feel queasy at the very thought of going to sea, or songs of unrequited love because someone might have had a painful romantic experience and doesn't want to be reminded of it.

I rarely sing politically oriented songs myself, but there are a couple I do sing because they make a point that should be heard, and if there are certain people who are offended by them, I don't care if they are offended or not. If my singing of them makes them uncomfortable, then good! They should be made to feel uncomfortable.

It has not reduced my audiences or my income from singing to any noticeable extent. If anything, it has increased both.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 06:07 PM

The Cold War between myself and the Dachshund continues. "Filthy fascist violence-monger!" I think, as I watch him chewing aggressively on his rawhide chewbone.

"Stinking leftist appeasement freak!" he growls, as he watches me reading my book on Buddhist philosophy.

It's getting tense around here, I tell you. Tense. We are both becoming quite alienated.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 06:14 PM

Mr. Firth

For the nth time and they ask me why I repeat myself$$$#$#$%%%$^%$#$
I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO BANNING POLITICAL FOLK SONGS

ABSOLUTELY

You should be able to sing any song no matter what it is about, however, when a significant part of the time on stage is spent not explaining the song but preaching the political message then you have transformed a perfectly good concert into a politically rally.

Now that is wrong.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 07:10 PM

Okay, Conrad, then on that, we are in agreement. I don't go to a folk concert, or any kind of concert, to hear a political harrang. But if the singer feels impelled to include a few songs of a political nature, that doesn't bother me.

Pete Seeger was thought to be a very political singer, but I've heard him, live, in a number of concerts, and he rarely included more that two or three political songs, and even then, he put them into historical context.

And--there are political songs and political songs. Anti-war songs, such as Mrs. McGrath, Johnnie, I Hardly Knew Ye, and The Band Played Waltzing Matilda anger some people of the more conservative persuasion these days, but as far as I'm concerned, that's as it should be.

Is Lilli Berlero a political song? Or The Vicar of Bray? Or The D-Day Dodgers? They certainly were at one time.

I'm not going to censor the songs I sing because they might offend someone (short of simple good taste, i.e., not singing bawdy songs in front of young children, for example). And I don't think anyone else should either. If I don't like the songs someone sings, I won't go to listen to them. And they have the same right if they don't like the songs I sing. There are enough differences in political beliefs around that I don't believe either of us will suffer greatly from lack of audiences.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 07:41 PM

Sounds good to me Don. Seeger would at times very successfully play the songs of both sides of an issue with the historical framework. When we primarily treat songs as art more people can come together to listen to them.

The way to react to a political song is by thinking about the melody and the lyrics the art of construction, rhymes the artistry of the creation of the piece as a song. Generally the ones that have survived have done so because of these qualities.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 02:04 AM

"The way to react to a political song is by thinking about the melody and the lyrics the art of construction, rhymes the artistry of the creation of the piece as a song."

However, I can't say that I agree with that. The idea of a ballad, for example, is to tell a story, albeit in song. And a lyrical non-ballad usually implies a story, or at least a situation.   And in that same way that one listens and reacts intellectually and emotionally to these songs, I think one should listen to the message of the political song and think about that as well, even though you may not agree with the ideology.

I don't see how you can divorce the story a song tells, be it a ballad, a lyric, or a protest song, and narrow your focus only to the aesthetic values of the song. What a song says is an integral part of the song. In a sense, it's the very soul of the song.

If you keep an open mind, you might learn something you didn't know before, or see something in a different way.

For example, one might be all in favor of developing as many domestic energy resources as possible to cut down on importing Middle Eastern oil, but hearing a song like Jean Ritchie's
Blackwaters might make one rethink such matters as supporting coal companies who practice strip-mining, and the incredible mess this leaves behind. Better to keep looking than precipitate this kind of environmental disaster.

Or hearing a song like Eric Bogle's The Green Fields of France and the poignant message it contains might lead one to wonder if it is wise to continue supporting politicians whose answer to many foreign policy questions is to send in the troops.

You never can tell. In listening to a protest song, you might learn something. And after thinking about it for awhile, and perhaps looking into the matter yourself, you may even change your views.

It gives you an opportunity to rethink some issue.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 03:31 AM

Peasant/Butcher.
If I were you, (and very glad that I'm not BTW), I'd stop pissing in the wind.
Nobody here is fooled by your arguements. Not really sure why you're bothering.
Hoping to recruit people to your nasty little club?
Should we alienate Fasciste?
Too damn right we should.
And we'll start with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 04:07 AM

Oh and Conrad....Please name one right wing pro fascist song that you know?
I can't think of one myself. Please enlighten us...

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: theleveller
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 04:32 AM

"In fact, to all intents and purposes they ARE you and the guy next door!
"

What a complete load of bollocks! For a start, neither I nor the "guy next door" have criminal convictions for racism and violence, not do I have a beer belly or wear a business suit - and I'm certainly not sad, deluded or a bastard. If the hat fits, Ake, wear it, but do not presume to speak for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 06:41 AM

Ralphie. "Please name one right wing pro fascist song that you know?"

There's the Horst Wessel song for one. Also, there are various heaps of chauvinistic shite being peddled around the British far right. EG., Send the Buggars Back. For that matter, the great white fat git himself has recorded a CD of his own compositions. It's on the BNP's own Great White Records label.

I'm not suggesting that any of these would be fit to use as toilet paper, but the problem is that the left has never been very prolific in terms of creating anti-fascist songs. That is something we need to change.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 07:39 AM

Yes one is free to meditate upon the meaning of the lyrics- an important dimension but if you find the message ofensive it is possible to toggle off the meaning and still have many other dimensions of the song left to enjoy.

Gaelic songs- very popular over the past several decades in places where very few if any understand the lyrics. That is because the songs are still carried along by the musical sounds of the words, rhymes rythms and tunes.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 07:45 AM

Thanks Fred.
Horst Wessel indeed!
(Couldn't remember the name).
Plus all Folk music from Germany pre 1939.
Hi-jacked by Goebbels and his cronies.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 07:57 AM

Peasant. Toggle off eh? There's an idea. How soon do you think you could manage it?

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 06:26 PM

Conrad, I have no problem enjoying songs when I don't understand the words. One of my early musical interests (as a teen-ager, and continuing on to today) is opera—granted, not everyone's cup of tea. Most operas are in Italian, French, or German, sometimes Russian or Czech, languages which I do not speak myself.

But what makes opera enjoyable for many people (McCaw Hall, the Seattle Opera House, is filled to capacity, a bit short of 3,000 seats at almost every performance—as is the case with most opera houses around the country) is the combination of drama and music. Opera-goers tend to bone up ahead of time to find out what the story is;    the gist of what's going on, if not word-by-word. Without knowing this, opera becomes a confusing hodge-podge consisting of a bunch of people in costumes, generally singing very loudly in a foreign language. But knowing what's going on makes watching and listening to an opera production a combination of fine music and high drama, a whole different thing.

Season tickets (five operas) run from around $150 to $3,000. And it's not just a rich person's entertainment. There are a lot of students and working stiffs who are sufficiently avid opera fans that they prefer shucking out the money and sitting in the upper balcony (nosebleed altitude) to not going at all. What justifies the ticket prices (which some people might consider grossly overpriced) is that you are getting to hear some of the finest singers in the world, along with large choruses sometimes, fairly lavish stage sets and costumes, sometimes with a ballet troupe (dance sequences in Aida, La Traviata, Faust, et al) as well—with the whole shebang being accompanied by a full symphony orchestra. An opera is very expensive to stage!

Many opera buffs are sufficiently avid that a few weeks prior to going to a live performance, they'll try to get a DVD of the opera with sub-titles, or a CD set complete with libretto ("little book," which contains the text of the opera, two columns on each page, original language on the left, English translation on the right), so they can listen to the opera ahead of time and learn what it's about before going to the live performance. In fact, when a particular opera is coming up and you want to bone up on it, you'd better be quick, or you'll find that all of the library's copies are already checked out.

Lately, Seattle Opera, and a number of other opera companies, are using "supra-titles":    projecting the words in English, like subtitles in a movie, but on a strip of screen on the proscenium above the stage.

So, sure, one can enjoy sung music as pure music even if one doesn't understand the words, but that's a bit like having sex with a woman you don't like. A limited experience, maybe physically satisfying, but it leaves one feeling sort of emotionally "blah." Empty calories.

Grasp the nettle! Listen to the words and think about them, even if you don't like what they say. It's a chance to reassess your beliefs, which should always be an ongoing process.

If it's a concert by a performer who sings mostly politically oriented songs and you don't like his or her politics, and you know you aren't going to enjoy it, there is a simple expedient:    don't go to it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 07:12 PM

""If you keep your folk against fascism rally's out of general music oriented venues or music oriented forums like this one then fine. Feel free to oppose fascism whenever you wish in a political setting.

I do not and will not ever apologize for fascists however I will suggest, not tell, folk musicians that they should always tolerate music and those with differing political beliefs.""

You just don't get it!

You have no authority to tell anyone on this forum what he/she should or should not do."".

If you don't like what you see here go somewhere which fits in with your agenda. Maybe join the BNP?....They'd love your ideas.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:32 PM

Ok I just suggest it then. Let them decide

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 10:16 AM

I've just heard, via Hope Not Hate, that the BNP are fielding over 400 candidates in the general election. The message didn't say, but I presume that is just parliamentary candidates, and doesn't include those standing for local goverment office.

I was expecting them to mount a sizeable turnout, but certainly not one as big as this.

Most of them will be nothing more than paper candidates, with no hope of getting anything more than a handful of votes each. Even so, the BNP are clearly planning to make as much hay out of the election as they possibly can. Anti-fascists on this thread can obviously plan for a busy time ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,Dai
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 10:40 AM

Fred, If people want to vote for them they hold that right. If people elect them you and I have to accept that. Much as we may dislike it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 10:59 AM

But some of us will be actively campaigning against them so people realise just what their repulsive policies are.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 11:28 AM

Dai. I wouldn't try and stop anyone from voting for anyone they wanted. But if the BNP have the right to put up for election, then I have the right to denounce them and organise against them.

An awful lot of people voted Hitler into power. Does that mean that the Jews, gypsies, trade unionists, socialists, liberals and gays who died in the gas chambers should have respected democracy?

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 11:30 AM

It's an interesting dilemma, isn't it - extending the privileges of free speech and democracy to people who actively oppose free speech and democracy? Fortunately, I have not the least worry that, once they realise how loathesome these turds are, the people will send them packing with their tails between their legs.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 11:38 AM

That is exactly the plan; not to prevent the BNP or any other far right group from exercising their democratic rights, but to make sure that Mr and Mrs Joe Public are fully aware that they are nazis in respectable suits, and what voting in a BNP government would mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 01:10 PM

"Keep them dogies rollin', Rawhide...."

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 02:29 PM

Just to throw my opinion in- I try not to actively alienate anyone. At the same time, If I hear something I don't agree with I'm going to object to it, argue against it or ridicule it most of the time and if people feel alienated because of my honest responses tough luck. Also if someone says something that actually makes me want to punch them I'll probably avoid them so as to make sure that doesn't actually happen.

Also you can value art without valuing the artist but that might end with you paying royalties to a complete wanker who'll spend them on bigoted electoral campaigns etc... And I still wouldn't want social interaction with someone who makes me want to punch them every few minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 04:20 AM

Guess what folks. Sam the spam has struck again. Not only has he set up a Bebo page in my name, I'm now on Flickr. Yup, you guessed it. Fred McCormick the loyal BNP member.

What a wucking fanker. Sam that is, not me.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 05:50 AM

And these are the people to whom it's suggested we should exctend the normal democratic rights? Maybe when they stop abusing ours!

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 09:52 AM

It means I need to cut my fingernails.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 11:31 AM

I've just come back from a counter-demonstration against the BNP. The BNP demonstrators were shouting murderers at us. Why so? Well, they've got it into their tiny little minds that anyone supporting anti-fascism must be either a Labour Party member or a supporter of Labour policies. Therefore, everyone on the counter-demo must be personally responsible for all the dead troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

With logic like that, who needs a lunatic asylum full of inmates?

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 11:44 AM

What goes around, comes around!

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 01:12 PM

I know. Amazing ennit. Up our way the BNP have become so notorious for bad behaviour that we've now got the police on our our side. And excuse me while I laugh, but this demonstration and counter demonstration happened outside the local crown court. Yep, you guessed it. One of their number was being arraigned on a charge of serious assault, for which he will hopefully receive a substantial prison sentence, and his mates outside couldn't even set an example by behaving like sensible adults.

As one of the officers said to me "If you took the collective IQ of that lot, it probably wouldn't get into double figures".