Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Feb 10 - 06:19 PM OK, Conrad, I talked with the volunteer who closed the original thread, and we agreed to combine threads and allow them to continue as a non-music thread - until the usual riot takes place. We certainly would not want to alienate any fascists... -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Is perception of folk polarization good From: pdq Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:54 PM Imagine going to a Socialist rally and having a Folk concert break out. |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Is perception of folk polarization good From: GUEST,The Folk E Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:44 PM Too many folksingers are trying to save the world, spouting politics, etc. While they are doing this, I am the one getting the gigs entertaining people who really only want to hear some music. Keep it up! |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Is perception of folk polarization good From: mousethief Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:43 PM No, Fascism is not allowable in folk music. O..O =o= |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Is perception of folk polarization good From: VirginiaTam Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:43 PM And sure as I know jack shit from applebutter, that comment will get me back on the BNP fakebook shit list. Well good. |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Is perception of folk polarization good From: VirginiaTam Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:39 PM The problem is that a political agenda is co-opting folk music. If traditional songs are in danger of fading in the wash of mass produced popular music, why should it be further threatened by associations with a monstrous political agenda? I don't see why reasonable people shouldn't want to protect the music from such associations. |
Subject: Folklore: Is perception of folk polarization good From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:23 PM Ok I have avoided the FA****** word that got one thread stopped. Is it helpful for folkies to appear to project one political polarity or another or should folkies try to appear more tolerant and even handed concentrating on the art of the music and the literary merit of the lyrics and the fit between the two? Music is music. A good set of constructed words, a good well constructed tune and a good match of the two. Who cares what the political message? We are not here to promote hate, promote love, hate those who hate, love those who hate - these things are not music. Music is so much more. Do we not loose audience each time we try to project some sort of political badge or affiliation which all folkies should subscribe to as in lets be anti this or pro that? Why is it so hard to simply regard music and lyrics as art without dwelling on the goodness of the political message which itself is only a small part of any song. Conrad |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: TheSnail Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:10 PM *#1 PEASANT* Why aren't more songs of fascism sung. Did a human being capable of finding W on the keyboard really type that sentence? Is anybody really trying to reason with this git?
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: akenaton Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:08 PM Folk music seems to attract "the left", perhaps through its history in the US, where the banner was carried by members of the Communist Party...and in the UK many of the founding fathers were Communists or hard left activists. These people inspired me to join the C P and remained a member for most of my life.....They fought for freedom from the slavery of capitalism, freedom of thought and discussion and to change society in a meaningful, perhaps Utopian way. Many would have called them fascists, as they were so committed, but I never would. In contrast today's left are fascists to a man, each one enmeshed in the minutiae of modern left wing politics, none with the wish to change anything of substance, only silence any form of dissent. Folk music in general, and this forum in particular is full of them. I would say, get the fascists out of folk music and give it back to the revolutionaries!! Woody, leadbelly, Ewan.....must be turning in their graves. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Ebbie Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:08 PM Should you alienate Fascists? You mean, so that you can stay on their good side? I know some rare musicians who are conservative in their political views, but not, to my knowledge, fascist. Whenever they sing a political song their known views always color my views. However, - and it always surprises me!- their political stance doesn't take away from their talent. :) That said, I'm speaking only of right-wing politics; if they were openly racist, (or specist- a sop to Little Hawk's friend) or unpleasantly classist or a number of other 'ists' I would not have them in my home. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:03 PM I thought fascists only like Wagner ... why would they go to a folk music venue. ok ... I'm outta here. biLL
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Amergin Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:01 PM Deutschland erwache! Germany awake from your nightmare! Give foreign Jews no place in your Empire! We will fight for your resurgence! Aryan blood shall never perish! All these hypocrites, we throw them out, Juda leave our German house! If the native soil is clean and pure, we united and happy will be! We are the fighters of the NSDAP True Germans in heart, firm and tough in our Struggle To the Swastika, devoted are we Hail our Leader, Hail Hitler to thee! Blut muss fließen Sharpen the long knives on the pavement, let the knives stab into the Jews body. Blood must flow extreme extensive and we shit on the freedom of this Jews Republic. Tug the concubine out of the rulers bed, grease the guillotine with the Jews fat. Blood must flow extreme extensive and we shit on the freedom of this Jews Republic. There's a black pig hanging in the synagogoue, throw the grenades into the parliaments. Blood must flow extreme extensive and we shit on the freedom of this Jews Republic. So, Conrad you think songs like these are art? Where is the art? All I see is hatred...songs to corrupt the misguided working class to follow in lock step their corporate masters. Go put on a blue shirt and march. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: mousethief Date: 24 Feb 10 - 04:59 PM Don't confuse music and politics? How can you separate them? Music and politics are part of life. How can I want to share music and good times, and at the same time want to quash freedom and human rights? O..O =o= |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fashists? From: Royston Date: 24 Feb 10 - 04:56 PM Fasscist alienate themselves. Good riddance. I wouldn't advocate a door policy at folk gigs, that's silly. If fascists feel unwelcome, that's because they are unwelcome. I think anyone can change the thread title at any time, that will be proven if this reverts to "Fashist" from this point forward. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Feb 10 - 04:56 PM Richard, I changed the thread title so people could find the damn thread. The initial title remains in the initial messages. Thread titles are used to index threads, not to make statements or the show the thread originator's erudition or lack thereof. The intent is to have a thread be a discussion of the topic on hand, not of the abilities of the original poster. That being said, I personally think it's a stupid topic for discussion. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 24 Feb 10 - 04:45 PM So you don't like them ignore them but don't confuse music with politics by taking sides.....as in saying all folkies should hate X no reason to do that What has what a party does with music to do with music. Whenever folkies decide to cut themselves off from a segment of the population they are being intolerant and it makes people from that segment of the population feel unwelcome and we cant afford to do that. So have your politics but dont suggest that folkies have the time to make political affiliation a major issue. It benefits no one. You can have politics in your music but you should not use music as a tool for or against any group. You may wish to consider playing music from both sides to demonstrate that tolerance. Why aren't more songs of fascism sung. All songs are treasures, the art is more than the message. Conrad |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 10 - 04:44 PM Richard...only the title was spelled wrong...his post spelled it correctly. Some errors are merely being in a hurry and hitting 'enter' to soon. I assume a moderator fixed it simply to facilitate future searches and avoid confusion. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 24 Feb 10 - 03:21 PM Why was the title changed to hide the fact that the OP managed to display his erudition by writing "Fashists"? Has fascism a guardian angel amongst the elves? |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Amergin Date: 24 Feb 10 - 02:23 PM Well considering the bigotry he has displayed in the past, I am not surprised by this thread. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,ifor Date: 24 Feb 10 - 02:00 PM The BNP is a party of thugs, racists and bigots. It's original leader, John Tyndall, was an open nazi who prided himself on his Hitler worship, anti semitism and violent racism.He can be viewed on google images in fill nazi regalia.He also had a string of criminal convictions for a range of serious offences. His successor,the expublic schoolboy Nick Griffin is a former youth leader of the vile National Front and has been involved in far right and racist politics since his schooldays. He is has a race hate conviction for anti semitism [1998]. But the BNP is a party full of convicted criminals...terrorism, sex crimes, violent assault, murder, football hooliganism wife beating, bomb making and much much more. If we ever let those violent characters get to power we would be dragged into a state of racial barbarism. Fascists welcomed to any music audience.I think not!Woody Guthrie had the right idea! Ifor |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Arkie Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:48 PM I do not know who is being labeled fascist here, but those I would consider fascist have no interest in free speech, except for themselves, free thought, or folk music. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: VirginiaTam Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:35 PM hhmmm as the OP spelling of thread title is questionable, should we give the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he was referring to the one time online fashist (fashion) ezine? naaaa! Pretty rich, him asking for tolerance for people who exhibit none. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:24 PM One wonders... (perhaps 2 or 3 wonder).. if you, Conrad, have BEEN excluded from some event(s) for your political leanings? |
Subject: BS: SHOULD WE ALIENATE PSYCHOPATHS From: The Sandman Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:21 PM Seems to me that psychopaths should be as welcome in any audience for folk music as anyone else of any number of alternative life styles and beliefs. When folk musicians campaign against them they are simply cutting off a part of the free world and denying others a point of view. So you dont worry that they will not turn up at your concerts or buy your cds? My worry is that they will be turned off from folk music in general and that is not a good thing as we need as much cultural transmission as possible. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: The Sandman Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:18 PM Yes. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Rapparee Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:14 PM I alienate everybody. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Smedley Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:14 PM I can just see the posters: THIS THURSDAY LOWER CLUTTERBUCK FOLK CLUB PRESENTS SETH TWANG AND HIS RUSTIC FUNSTERS FASCISTS WELCOME |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fashists? From: Bill D Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:03 PM I can't imagine how I'd recognize a fascist in an audience or group of musicians if all they are doing is music. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fashists? From: Ruth Archer Date: 24 Feb 10 - 12:33 PM Many folk musicians do not want their music being used as a tool by fascists. Many in the folk community also do not wish to see English traditions harnessed to the BNP's political agenda. That is the issue. Not which individuals choose to attend concerts, and what their own political beliefs might be. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fashists? From: alanabit Date: 24 Feb 10 - 12:29 PM I am not necessarily against any person. In fact I am very much for people of all shades of opinion. Unfortunately this leaves me rather ill equipped to deal with fascists, who see the world rather differently. I will play music in a room containing child molestors as long as no actual child molesting goes on in the same room. My problem is that I feel that fascism has about as much moral basis as child molesting. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fashists? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 24 Feb 10 - 12:15 PM They are still people and many folkies seem to want to put them down for their beliefs. Is that the role of anyone trying to extend or preserve a centuries old tradition(s) that is in need of assistance from everyone. When you hang a political sign on your work you limit your audience. Audiences are already small enough. You must extend to folks the tolerance you desire for yourself. Politics can be in music and song but should not be used to exclude folks from music or song no matter what their belief. Folk musicians against whatever is not helpful. Conrad |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fashists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 24 Feb 10 - 12:13 PM Wanker |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fashists? From: Amos Date: 24 Feb 10 - 12:11 PM Ummm...fascists, by definition, are not much part of the free world, there, #1. They're kind of committed to the reduction of freedom. A |
Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fashists? From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 24 Feb 10 - 12:10 PM "Should folkies distance themselves from the rest of the world by taking sides in politics?" Shouldn't that be: Should folkies distance themselves from the rest of the world by not taking sides in politics? |
Subject: BS: Should you alienate Fashists? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 24 Feb 10 - 12:07 PM Seems to me that fascists should be as welcome in any audience for folk music as anyone else of any number of alternative life styles and beliefs. When folk musicians campaign against them they are simply cutting off a part of the free world and denying others a point of view. So you dont worry that they will not turn up at your concerts or buy your cds? My worry is that they will be turned off from folk music in general and that is not a good thing as we need as much cultural transmission as possible. IMHO politics shoiuld not be put between a performer and a member of the audience or turn off potential audience. This does not mean that a folk artist can not express themselves but that it would be more tolerant to respect the views of others and play songs of all points of view. Should folkies distance themselves from the rest of the world by taking sides in politics? Conrad |