BS: The Republicans (US)

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 10:23 AM

In what specific way do you believe "they" are misleading "the public", Rig? Particularly?



A

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 10:58 AM

There's no point berating voters for their ignorance

Oh Yes, there is, and yes, I will. The "No Facts Need Apply" approach is what put the U.S. in the current shithole its in.

Until these morons take responsibility and educate themselves, the shithole is only going to get deeper, and fast.

videIdiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free by Charles P. Pierce

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 11:39 AM

"You are fishing for ways to belittle ANYTHING a liberal says...which sure identifies you as parroting the current Republican line. "Throw MORE mud...maybe some will stick." "


seems to make as much sense as the following true statement:

You are fishing for ways to belittle ANYTHING a conservative says...which sure identifies you as parroting the current liberal line. "Throw MORE mud...maybe some will stick."





I fail to see why someone with the knowledge you have has to join in attacks on individuals instead of attacking the points being presented.

But if you have a losing arguement, I guess it makes sense to shift the attack to the people rather than the ideas they present.





Shame, shame, shame.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 01:14 PM

"In what specific way do you believe "they" are misleading "the public", Rig?"

                They are pandering to the Hispanic vote with no concern about the consequences. The tell the public that the two choices are--make them legal or ship them out. There's a third option the administration doesn't talk about because it makes too much sense.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 02:11 PM

What would that be? Japanese style internment camps? You think Bushie missed a bet there, do you? WHy not integrate them as paying, earning members of society?

Sheesh...


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 02:14 PM

Because we have too many people now. All we have to do is ignore them. Make sure they can't get a job or access the welfare system and watch them leave.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 02:24 PM

Who are "they", Rigs???

BTW, Amos... The dems have two problems, one of which Greg has alluded to... The first is the economy... But secondly, and perhaps more difficuly, the Repub BIGASS LIE machine... People are so dumbed down that even if the economy improves the Repubs will SCREAM at the top of their lings that it sisn't and the corporations will run ads that say iot isn't and the dumbed down masses will, like Hitler once said, believe the BIG LIE??? That, unfortuanately is what is going on these days...

Garbage in, garbage out...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 02:41 PM

Illegal immigrants. And that's another thing, nobody will believe the economy is improving as long as the federal government is going after Arizona for enforcing the law.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 03:13 PM

No Bruce... there is no comparison between the Republicans' gratuitous mud-slinging and lying and repetition of offensive slogans and disproven accusations, and the Democrats' criticism OF such tactics.

Tyhe Republicans are seldom FOR anything these days....except vague slogans. They are AGAINST things....like regulation and taxes....and sometimes they are against the very things they were FOR a couple years ago, because the Democrats have adopted a version of them, and we sure can't vote for ANYTHING the Democrats propose.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 03:54 PM

No Bill... there is no comparison between the Democrats' gratuitous blaming of all ills on the past, and spending money and imposition of programs that only they see the need for, and increasing taxes, and never taking responsibility for any decisions that they do push through, and the Republicans' criticism OF such tactics.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 04:52 PM

"... gratuitous blaming of all ills on the past, .."

Citations, please... (that list of stuff Bush & cronies ARE to blame for, though long, is hardly 'all'.)

"...programs that only they see the need for,..."


There are none so blind as those who will not see.....the NEED for various programs.

"...never taking responsibility for any decisions that they do push through..."

Responsibility? Hell....we're taking credit! All the health care we could stuff thru Republican stonewalling, all the Wall Street reform we could jam past Republican hand-wringing over losing the freedom to screw the public at will...and a few more that we are proud to be making headway on despite the cries of "No!, No!, No!"

You gotta do better than just re-writing MY posts and pretending they're relevant.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 05:00 PM

"Republicans' gratuitous mud-slinging "

I think that any mudslinging is justified from the "blame-game" that Obama has been engaged in- blamig the Republicans when he cannot even get his OWN party to agree with him.


"and lying "

BOTH sides have been lying- NOW it is Obama claiming that the "NOT a TAX" IS a tax, in order to make it legal.

"and repetition of offensive slogans and disproven accusations"

I find much of what Pelosi and Reid have stated to be both false and offensive- but so what?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 05:01 PM

The NAACP became irrelevant and nobody noticed!

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 05:08 PM

BillD,

"You gotta do better than just re-writing MY posts and pretending they're relevant. "


YOU have to do better than to ask me for citations and provide NONE in your original post- NOT a fair thing, to require of others what you do not give yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 05:52 PM

well, you sorta prove my point when you just 'assert' that "...any mudslinging is justified from the "blame-game" that Obama has been engaged in.."
...and "I find much of what Pelosi and Reid have stated to be both false and offensive-"
Do I HAVE to site detailed proof that Republican lying & mudslinging is qualitatively different? What good would it do me, if you can just say "I disagree"? Mitch McConnell and John Boehner...(not to mention Sharron Angle and Michele Bachmann)..just proclaim ANYTHING that will get played as gospel on Fox....and repeat it, no matter how often it is disproved, using the same basic technique YOU are using - simply asserting that they are right and that even IF they are wrong, their 'opponents' did it too!
You gotta get beyond that worn out, fallacious argument form.



but...Be careful what you ask for...here's an example of distortion on the truth....

Blaming Dems for Bush tax cuts

The facts...

    * Extending the Bush tax cuts would add about $2.3 trillion to the national deficit.
    * On top of that, repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax and ending the Estate Tax and Gifts Tax would add another $1.1 trillion to the national deficit.
    * Obama's health care reform bill actually reduces the deficit, so fulfilling Republican wishes to repeal health care reform would add another $138 billion.
    * The other Obama proposal that would reduce the deficit is the cap and trade energy legislation. By blocking that, Republicans add another $19 billion to the deficit.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 06:21 PM

"* Obama's health care reform bill actually reduces the deficit, so fulfilling Republican wishes to repeal health care reform would add another $138 billion.
"


Saying this does not make it true.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 07:19 PM

no, compiling the data makes it true. I NEVER claim that my statements alone 'make anything true'.

The current Republican technique, when confronted with an awkward fact, is to sidestep, change the subject and dissemble with 'smoke & mirrors'....

Another example of "just say no" is that they are now trying to cut off extra unemployment payments, when they voted FOR such 4 times under Bush...when it suited their political motives of the moment.

Today I heard a Republican 'analyst', when asked about Obama's very hard-hitting complaint about these tactics, say.."Oh, he was really just being 'defensive'!" She 'asserted' that he was just covering up his failure to act. *grin*.... That is an example of just totally distorting what was actually happening by blatantly 'calling black white' and not even dealing with what everyone heard.

I'll confess, I can't comprehend how to conduct a debate using that system. I'd never be able to keep a straight face...but 'some' seem to find it easy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 08:05 PM

Obama's Health care bill ONLY reduces debt IF the assumptions put in it are correct- and tyhe OMB has already said they are not. AND it depends on a large expendature for Medicare payments that are NOT included in the Bill, thus hiding half a trillion dollars in costs.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 08:14 PM

Yeah, Bill... There's one shitload of fuzzy math and voodoo economics being advocated by the Repubs... They say they want to fight the deficit but haven't put forth one single thing they would cut.. No, might of fact, they line up at the trough when it's earmark time...

I mean, this ain't all that complicated... If they want to fight the deficit then they are gpoing to have to support higher taxes or massive cuts that we haven't seen in the last 50 years...

So, Repubs out there... let's have yer list of cuts... Come on, just say it... It will set you free... Come on, bruce... Yer a Repub... Waht are you gonna cut and by how much... Social Security perhaps putting millions of our senoirs into poverty??? The military???

)No, Boberdz... Repubs never cut the military...)

Oh yeah, earmarks... Okay, that's about 1% of the budget... That ain't gonna do squat... So where to cut... And be mindfull that many federal cuts will force allready over-burdoned states to increase taxes to cover the shortfalls...

I mean, Repubs just don't have any handle on reality...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 08:47 PM

BB-
What would the Republicans' plan for getting the country out of its present mess look like? All I've heard is deregulate and cut takes, neither of which has proved particularly helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 08:59 PM

See what I mean?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 08:59 PM

I'm sickened by what they have done to the United States. To blame Obama for trying his damndest to reverse what their greed and lack of conpassion have precipitated here is the ultimate example of blaming the messenger for daring to bring the truthful facts to the fore. Looking at this is truly nauseating. My glass is much more than half full. It is manifestly overflowing. Why? Because I just threw up in it.

Arthur D. Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 09:00 PM

so...another typical Republican distortion:
In an ad against Harry Reid (trying to get Sharron Angle elected without allowing her to put her foot further down her throat), 'someone' claims that under Reid, Nevada got less of the stimulus money than any other state. Ol' Harry can't even get his own state it's share...wow...
except that...it is just not true. There were 13 other states that got less money than Nevada!...which corresponds roughly to Nevada's population ranking.
But who cares if it's TRUE? It is aimed at poor, out of work folks who watch Fox News and who WANT to believe that most of their troubles in Nevada are Harry Reid's fault. It is pure fakery and distortion and is the basic Sharron Angle hype..."EVERYTHING is Harry reid's fault!" She no longer talks to mainstream media, because those meanies ask her questions which she MUST sidestep with some oblique attack on Harry Reid. Angle's website has been taken over by 'someone' who has 'sanitized' it from the wing-nut approach she used before the primary.

I'm curious, BB...do YOU see any problem with Rand Paul, Sharron Angle, Michele Bachmann, Jim DeMint, the Gov. of Texas, both senators of Oklahoma...and a dozen other FAR right-wing Repubs who are tossing claims and slogans around with little regard for truth or accuracy?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 10:25 PM

Dick Greenhaus said:

"All I've heard is deregulate and cut takes, neither of which has proved particularly helpful."

Dick has it right... this is essentially what GHW Bush called "voodoo economics" when he was running against Reagan. GHWB warned us...

When Reagan came into office, the deficit was 994 billion...when he left office it was 2.8 trillion. Does THAT sound like tax cuts reduced anything?

Read Marco Rubio's plan as he runs for senator from Florida..more here

Now why should anyone believe Rubio's plan is good? *grin*...because ..because-rachel-maddow-thinks-its-wrong

Boy, THAT is sure convincing! And bb wonders where I get all these silly notions that Republicans use bad logic and distortions...

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 03:59 PM

Some Republicans, like Rand Paul for instance, use good logic. Ronald Reagan, on the other hand, was incapable of logic.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 04:10 PM

Repeating a failed effort in the hope of success is one definition of insanity.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 04:17 PM

Too bad! We don't have it in the budget to treat all the Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 05:46 PM

Being treated by people who think like that would be something straight out of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 06:20 PM

Which explains why Obama is so much like Nurse Ratchet.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 08:14 PM

Hey Rig-
Can you explain what the Repubs would do if they got into power?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 10:50 PM

Can you explain what the Repubs would do if they got into power?

That's easy. Cut taxes on the rich and drive us further into debt. We know that's what they'd do because they said so.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 07:13 AM

Ronald Reagan on the other hans, was incapable of THOUGHT.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 07:42 AM

I think Aber-ham Lincoln said that...

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 08:42 AM

Yes, by the numbers alone, we know what Republicans do when in office.
Why doesn't Faux News ever tell you about this?

http://www.lafn.org/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html

Just the opposite of what the big lie machine is telling you

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 08:37 AM

Well, that's an easy one, TIA...

FOX is Boss Hog's private little propaganda machine... Wasn't 'sposed to be like this... The original laws that were written back in the 20's were written with this in mind but...

...Boss Hog packed the FCC with his buddies and corrupted the intent of what used to be airwaves that are owned by the "public"... Now everything is for sale and guess who, thanks to Reagan, has all the cash???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 09:09 AM

Is there such a thing as Kosher Pork?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 09:10 AM

Pee in the cup, Rigs...

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 01:28 PM

So I see where the POlitical Firings of DAs scandal was in fact deemed as "inappropriately political", but point-man Alberto Gonzalez has been cleared of criminality in his testimony. Seems he is now teaching and writing a book, but has no publisher yet.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 01:58 PM

Think about it.... if a thousand people riot and set fire and break windows, it's often too hectic to actually arrest anyone..unless there's clear video proof. If hundreds of illegal immigrants mob a poorly staffed checkpoint, most of them will get by. If 5000 people are blowing vuvuzelas, you don't have much chance of shusshing them.

I read that California is about to give hundreds of non-violent prisoners early release because they need cell space for more 'serious' offenders.

And when there are dozens....if not hundreds.... of possible crimes documented from G.W. Bush and Cheney and Alberto Gonzalez on down, the idea of investigating and prosecuting any becomes an exercise in futility. If they DID 'get' a few, after months of spending many $$$$ and distracting the press, people would say "hey, look at the ones
you missed!".

I'm betting that 'certain' conservatives are quite aware of the situation, and push the limits when they see any political hay to be made.

In the same way, the current torrent of 'over-the-top' ads, accusations, slogans, interviews and just plain scare tactics the Republicans are deluging us with are designed to harden their base, and win 'just enough' fence-sitters.....and truth and accuracy be damned! The assertations of 'socialism' and '1st amendment scares' and 'Obamacare' and.... a dozen more... don't NEED to be proven. They just toss 'em out and hope the Democrats will wear themselves out running around fighting brushfires and forgetting how to go on the offensive!

All's fair in love, war & politics? Crap!

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 02:11 PM

"Seems he is now teaching and writing a book, but has no publisher yet."

               If he hires the right ghost writer, he won't have any trouble finding a publisher.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 10 - 01:56 PM

"According to The Huffington Post, Iowa's GOP is calling for the reintroduction and ratification of the original 13th amendment of the Constitution. And what do they plan to do with that? Strip President Barack Obama's citizenship for accepting the Nobel Peace Prize.

The current 13th amendment bans slavery and Iowa Republicans are not in favor of changing that. The original amendment outlawed any person who accepts "a title of nobility" from a foreign country while holding political office, which is what they're looking to reintroduce.

Part of the original 13th amendment of the Constitution reads, "If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain any title of nobility or honor, or shall, without the consent of Congress accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."

"The amendment was ratified by 12 states but never got the 13th state that it needed, and thus, never became law," Jason Hancock at the Iowa Independent wrote in a recent article.

Since Obama accepted a Nobel Prize, he would be stripped of his citizenship. The same would apply to others such as President Jimmy Carter and economist Joseph Stiglitz, according to The Huffington Post.

Jerry Aldmen from Newsweek reported, "Unfortunately for them, the Department of Justice looked into whether Obama needed Congressional approval to accept the Nobel under the existing emoluments clause, and based on the meaning of "foreign state" (which would not cover the Nobel Prize Committee) concluded that he did not." "

---

Yeah, the Repubs are far-seeing--excellence of the kind that gets Nobel Prizes has no place in Amurika.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jul 10 - 05:23 PM

I'm hoping that this story about the latest idiocy by the GOP is only a bad joke- if true, its time for me to move out of the good ol'US of A - just too damn many Republican brainless assholes for any sentient being to have to deal with.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 10 - 05:38 PM

I hope that the progressives and the Dems are takin' notes here because the last two years of Repub piss poor bevavior maybe is just what America needs...

(Huh???)

This is the way I see it... Seems that the American people are in the mood to reward bad behavior so let the Repub have their reward and have both chambers in Novemeber and then take a page out of their obstructionist book and blow it up like a hundred times so that the American people will finally see the damage that obstructionists can do to the country... But the Dems need to be real staright forward from the very beginning and tell the American people to strap on their seat belts because they (the Dems) are going to do to the Repubs what the Repubs are now doing... The dems need to expalin it very carefully... At some poin the voters are going to no longer reward sandbaggers and showboaters... I mean, if the country is to survive itself then it needs to quit rewrading failure...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 30 Jul 10 - 05:39 PM

If you want your head to explode, just read the official Iowa GOP platform. Every nutty conspiracy is touched upon...

http://www.iowagop.org/site/c.ruIWKbMYIvF/b.5647735/k.A17D/RPI_Platform.htm

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: mousethief
Date: 30 Jul 10 - 11:20 PM

If you want your head to explode, just read the official Iowa GOP platform. Every nutty conspiracy is touched upon...

http://www.iowagop.org/site/c.ruIWKbMYIvF/b.5647735/k.A17D/RPI_Platform.htm

Ye gods, they even SHOUT! Are these people for real?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 01:03 AM

"We support the definition of manure as a natural fertilizer."


That I can support. I am much relieved.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 08:57 AM

And I support thre definition of the Iowa Platform as manure.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: mousethief
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 05:48 PM

"We support the definition of manure as a natural fertilizer."

Actually manure cannot be defined as a natural fertilizer. It is defined as the composted solid waste of animals. It can be used as a natural fertilizer.

Never answer a personal ad of someone who claims to be "intelejent".

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 06:03 PM

If you read carefully, you will see that the Iowa GOP supports a theocracy, in which the 'law' supports their definition of 'rights' and they define what is 'law'... all very circular and allowing them to do anything THEY wish, as THEY see it, and supported by THEIR interpretation of the Judeo-Christian religion. Doubt it? Just ask....them.

The U.S. Constitution? Oh, it fits right in...if you squint just right and don't read all the parts.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 06:11 PM

>>"Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: GUEST,TIA - PM
Date: 30 Jul 10 - 05:39 PM

If you want your head to explode, just read the official Iowa GOP platform. Every nutty conspiracy is touched upon..."<<

I like the way they put quotes around words and phrases they are misusing. It helps sane people keep track of the bullshit.

>>>6.    The only sound basis for sound government and just human relations is "Natural Law".

7.    The United States is a "Sovereign" Nation and we should abide by the "Rule of Law" of this nation only.<<<