Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)

Subject: RE: Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 18 Aug 20 - 08:57 PM

One last thing, although the date of January 1939 is given for written publication. Perhaps Hugh S. Roberton did indeed first write and have the work performed in the 1920'a. There are records of Roberton going to Winnipeg throughout the mid 1920's-late 1930's. The BBC producer claimed he first heard it performed in Winnipeg. So perhaps Westering Home had been kicking around before the stated court date of formal publication in January 1939.

Subject: RE: Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Aug 20 - 07:24 AM

Thanks for posting that historical info.

There's no doubt of the 1939 copyright date. (See my post of Jan. 1, 2019).

Obviously it isn't impossible that Roberton was performing the song before that, but Wikipedia gives no assurance that he was.

If the 1920s date was anything more than a guess by the contributor, there should have been a source note.

Subject: RE: Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Aug 20 - 07:24 AM

Thanks for posting that historical info.

There's no doubt of the 1939 copyright date. (See my post of Jan. 1, 2019).

Obviously it isn't impossible that Roberton was performing the song before that, but Wikipedia gives no assurance that he was.

If the 1920s date was anything more than a guess by the contributor, there should have been a source note.

Subject: RE: Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Aug 20 - 07:40 AM

It looks like there is a source note, way down at the bottom of the page.

But it goes to a genealogy site that gives no source or evidence either.

A respectble source would be something like a quote from Roberton or a close associate or, even better, a pre-1939 mention of Roberton's performing the song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 19 Aug 20 - 08:19 AM

Hi Lighter thanks for your observation and information. I made an error in haste myself. It wasn't the BBC producer who heard the song being first performed in Winnipeg, it was the Chairman of Curwen and Co. Annoyingly I can find newspaper mentions of Roberton visiting Canada during the 1926-1938 period - but haven't found one for 1939.

The earliest mention of any UK public performance of Roberton's Westering Home reported in currently available scanned newspapers is mid-1939, which fits with the first publication date given of January 1939.   Still the court case does confirm the previous songs said to have been used as a source. The lyrics though being completely original and fitted to his overall adaptation.

Subject: RE: Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)
From: meself
Date: 19 Aug 20 - 12:02 PM

The event in Winnipeg at which Robertson reportedly performed the song is the type of thing that would have been mentioned in newspapers of the day - just a (probably unhelpful and unnecessary) suggestion; don't know if the old Winnipeg newspapers are on-line .....

Subject: Creag Ghuanach, tune of Westering Home
From: Felipa
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 06:46 PM

I have read that Roberton used the tune associated with a Gaelic song Creag na Ghuanach for the air of Westering Home. Creag na Ghuanach is a portion of a long tale of hunting, by 16th century bard Dòmhnall mac Fhionnlaigh nan Dàn (Donald MacKinlay MacDonald of the poems/lays)
https://calumimaclean.blogspot.com/2013/09/hunter-bard-donald-mackinlay-of-lays.html Òran na Comhachaig (The Song of the Owl)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/oran/people/domhnall_macdhomhnaill_domhnall_mac_fhionnlaigh_nan_dan/

Wikipedia: "The 'Mingulay Boat Song' is a song written by Sir Hugh S. Roberton (1874–1952) in the 1930s. The melody is described in Roberton's 'Songs of the Isles' as a traditional Gaelic tune, probably titled 'Lochaber'.[1] The tune was part of an old Gaelic song, 'Òran na Comhachaig' (the 'Creag Ghuanach' portion); from Brae Lochaber." [Does anyone reading this post have a copy of Songs of the Isles to verify that this attribution is given in Roberton's book?]

Lyrics with translation
CREAG GHUANACH

Air minn o iom ó ro,
Iom ó agus iom ó ro,
Air minn o, na iom ó ro,
Is aoibhinn leam an diugh na chì.
It is joyful I am today to see you.

Creag mo chridh’-sa a’ chreag Ghuanach,
Crag of my heart is Creag Ghuanach
Chreag an d'fhuair mi greis de m’ àrach;
Crag where I received my upbringing;
Creag nan aighean ’s nan damh siùbhlach,
Crag of the wandering deer and stag,
A' chreag ùrail, aighearach eànach.
The flourishing crag of joy and renown.

Creag mo chrìdh’-s a' chreag Ghuanach,
Crag of my heart is Creag Ghuanach
’S ionmhuinn leum an lòn tha fo a ceann;
Dear to me is the pool below its summit;
Is annsa an lag tha air a cùlaibh,
And more dear the cave behind it
Na machair is mùr nan Gall.
Than a pasture or a hall of the Lowlands.

’S truagh an diugh nach beò an fheadhainn,
It is a pity that today the people are no longer living,
Gun ann ach an ceò de ’n bhuidhinn,
Where now only the mist is plentiful,
Leis ’m bu mhiannach glòir nan gadhar,
Who would have had a keen desire for glory with
their hunting dogs
Gun mheoghail, gun òl, gun bhruidhinn.
There is now no joy, no drinking, no conversation.

"Creag Ghuanach is a hill at the south end of Loch Treig where the bard, Donald MacDonald (or Donald son of Finlay of the poems, as he is known in Gaelic) was raised in the sixteenth century. As well as being a poet he was also a renowned hunter. These are only a few verses from a much larger work of more than fifty verses that he composed as his hunting days were coming to an end."
Tom Colquhoun, Largs Gaelic Choir

Subject: OOPS -feeling foolish - two songs by Roberton
From: Felipa
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 07:13 PM

Roberton reportedly put the words of Mingulay Boat Song to the tune Lochaber/Creag Ghuanach not the words of Westering Home.
I thought the words didn't fit the Westering Home tune too well! Feeling foolish ... maybe I can get a mudelf to do a major edit and thread switch!
see Mingulay thread

Subject: RE: Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)
From: leeneia
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 02:40 PM

I've printed the sheet music for Westering Home from abcnotation.com

This will make a beautiful song for dulcimer or recorder.

Subject: RE: Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)
From: Felipa
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 05:14 PM

Everything Dulcimer includes mountain dulcimer tab for Westering Home
https://everythingdulcimer.com/tab/westering_home.pdf (and also has tab for Creag Ghuanach)

Subject: RE: Origins: Westering Home (Hugh Roberton)
From: GUEST,Wotcha
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 10:11 PM

Westering Home is used for the Mast Manning ceremony by elements of the Royal Navy. Check out John Noakes Blue Peter attempt in 1967 ... or the 1992 HMS Daedalus demonstration on YouTube ... Don't watch if you get vertigo.

Mast Manning


Cheers

Subject: RE: Trasna na dTonnta
From: Felipa
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 05:21 PM

some of the previous messages in this discussion thread are about an Irish language song to the tune of Westering Home. Here are a couple of useful videos for anyone who wants to learn to sing Trasna na dTonnta:

an online lesson in singing the song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyiPvDQ6y3c

and here is a recording by Na Casadaigh with lyrics on screen