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BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day

Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 19 Mar 10 - 08:23 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 19 Mar 10 - 08:01 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 19 Mar 10 - 07:26 PM
GUEST,mg 19 Mar 10 - 07:26 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 19 Mar 10 - 07:12 PM
GUEST,mg 19 Mar 10 - 06:59 PM
John MacKenzie 19 Mar 10 - 06:50 PM
katlaughing 19 Mar 10 - 06:32 PM
GUEST,mg 19 Mar 10 - 03:54 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 19 Mar 10 - 03:17 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 19 Mar 10 - 02:47 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 19 Mar 10 - 02:28 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 19 Mar 10 - 02:23 PM
Dave the Gnome 19 Mar 10 - 11:43 AM
katlaughing 18 Mar 10 - 09:59 PM
open mike 18 Mar 10 - 03:33 PM
Charmion 17 Mar 10 - 04:29 PM
PoppaGator 17 Mar 10 - 03:00 PM
black walnut 17 Mar 10 - 01:56 PM
gnu 17 Mar 10 - 12:51 PM
GUEST,leeneia 17 Mar 10 - 12:17 PM
black walnut 17 Mar 10 - 11:01 AM
Charmion 17 Mar 10 - 09:02 AM
Lox 17 Mar 10 - 08:30 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 17 Mar 10 - 07:38 AM
3refs 17 Mar 10 - 04:17 AM
GUEST,leeneia 16 Mar 10 - 10:43 PM
Clontarf83 16 Mar 10 - 02:29 PM
Seamus Kennedy 16 Mar 10 - 02:12 PM
GUEST,mg 16 Mar 10 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,25% 16 Mar 10 - 12:45 PM
Dave'sWife 16 Mar 10 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,leeneia 16 Mar 10 - 11:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Mar 10 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,25% 16 Mar 10 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,leeneia 16 Mar 10 - 01:48 AM
GUEST,crazy little woman 16 Mar 10 - 01:34 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Mar 10 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,leeneia 15 Mar 10 - 12:56 PM
GUEST,mg 15 Mar 10 - 12:54 PM
SINSULL 15 Mar 10 - 08:40 AM
Emma B 15 Mar 10 - 07:07 AM
Joe Offer 15 Mar 10 - 12:20 AM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Mar 10 - 11:53 PM
GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew 14 Mar 10 - 09:39 PM
GUEST,Allan Connochie 14 Mar 10 - 01:09 PM
GUEST,stringsinger 14 Mar 10 - 12:53 PM
Charmion 14 Mar 10 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Allan Connochie 14 Mar 10 - 05:19 AM
katlaughing 13 Mar 10 - 10:07 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 08:23 PM

Mg - ignore me. I'm weepy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 08:01 PM

"some actual Irish people like our ancestors"

Mg, I really genuinely don't understand this notion of deep emotional attachment to people you never met.

My Mum was Irish, so I guess I got into the spirit of this thread as a form of connection to her. It rather upset me when you stated that this thread was explicitly for Irish-Americans, rather than for Irish people or their families.
Thanks for the clarification anyway. I'll be more carefull on Mudcat in future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:26 PM

Sorry mg - I know you didn't mean it badly. I'm touchy at the mo'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:26 PM

I might give it some thought but I never use the term Paddy Day..and some actual Irish people like our ancestors became Irish-Americans or their children did and they are the ones who learned the Bing Crosby songs etc. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:12 PM

"We have made it clear numerous times that we are talking about this from an Irish American perspective"

Thanks MG - maybe next time you should headline the thread "Irish-American Paddy Day" and no-one will be confused that it might have any reference to actual Irish people like my Mother that I was just waffling on about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 06:59 PM

Well bully for them. We have made it clear numerous times that we are talking about this from an Irish American perspective and what they do in Ireland is what they do in Ireland and not here. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 06:50 PM

WTF is it all about?
Most of those posting in this thread are Americans!
In Ireland they don't drink green beer, OR, eat corned beef and cabbage.
They celebrate it with a few jars, and that's because, they have nothing to prove, and they are sure of their identitiy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 06:32 PM

Well in looking for some idea of just how many redheads there are in Ireland, I came across the following from Wiki posted on another discussion board:

"Scotland has the highest proportion of redheads, as 13 percent of the population has red hair and approximately 40 percent carries the recessive redhead gene.[8] Ireland has the second highest percentage; as many as 10 percent of the Irish population have red, auburn, or strawberry blond hair.[9] It is thought that up to 46 percent of the Irish population carries the recessive redhead gene. Red hair reaches frequencies of up to 10 percent in Wales.[10]"

My great-grandmother had red hair and was Scottish. I recently found out my mom's maternal ancestors were also Scottish, not English as we'd thought all of these years, so it looks like both of my parents had the recessive gene. From what I've read they both have to have it to produce a redhead.

There's also an interesting article about redheads becoming "extinct" as the numbers seem to be dwindling HERE. It includes some quotes from National Geographic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 03:54 PM

I was shocked to see in Ireland that most of the people did not look Irish to me..and I had two templates..the redhaired and the black Irish like I am descended from..although I don't look it a bit. And this was before massive immigration from Poland etc. Norwegians were not all that blond either frankly. I hate it when stereotypes don't turn out right. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 03:17 PM

"I was the only redhead in the family plus I have green eyes and freckles."

My Mother (Northern Irish) was very fair: sea blue eyes and light blonde hair. Both her parents had blue eyes too, though one was fair and one was dark. Her brother inherited the dark hair with dark blue eyes. On my fathers side the family come from Liverpool Irish: all blonde or dark hair and blue eyes yet again.
I'm the only green eyed member of my immediate family. I don't have any especially discernable Irish characteristics either. Though friends of mine who are members of the Irish diaspora can be striking in their classic Irish appearance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 02:47 PM

I aught to add my Mum's Irish family recipe for lamb stew. It's all a bit rough from memory but includes: neck of lamb, potatoes, leeks and pearl barley all well simmered together until the lamb meat falls away from the bone. Lots of salt and pepper, but no other seasoning. So what you end with is a salty broth thickened with the barley and veggies, which is sweet from the lamb. Lots of all of it piled into a bowl, and I always had second helpings... Yum!
It is fatty though, which for anyone familiar with Irish grub, isn't exactly a shocker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 02:28 PM

Weird, I was sure I put a link there: Reel Folk


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 02:23 PM

I spent St. Patrick's Day evening weeping for the first time ever! As I thought of my Mum, and listened to the music of some lovely peeps from Belfast who recently friended me on MySpace: Reel Folk
My Mum wasn't really into Irish folk, but she did introduce me to my very first traditional song 'She Moved Through the Fair' and I still find I 'run the gaunlet' of potential voice crackage in singing it today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 11:43 AM

100!


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 09:59 PM

Welcome back, Dave's Wife. Just a few assumptions you made which I would like to clear up:


Katlaughing, you know I adore you and I'm sure your dad would have been very sad if he could have spent a few hours listening to my inlaws harangue me about being Irish and being Catholic, trying to trick me into eating meat on fridays in Lent and telling everyone how relieved they are that I didn't have any children since I likely would have beat them and they would have all had disgusting red hair and freckles. I'm sure to him, the ole Wearin' O'the Orange thing was also a faded memory of an insult passed down to him.


mg is right about your in-laws and I would not put up with it, either. My dad knew very well the kind of prejudice you describe and would have abhorred the way they treat you.

I think the main reason my dad and I found St. Patrick's day to be so important to us was I was the only redhead in the family plus I have green eyes and freckles. I felt very special to have that distinction and was never made to feel negatively about it. (In my 20s I did get nicknamed "Irish" because I had a hot temper and red hair, but it did not offend me.) We are quite proud and happy that my grandson also has red hair AND is getting a sprinkling of freckles across the bridge of his nose. I was mom and dad's "Irish" girl, if you will, with no disrespect or ridicule involved towards me, Ireland or the Church.

As a lot of my dad's friends were Catholic and/or Irish, he also was not remembering an insult passed on. It just was what was...Protestants wore orange (I was in the minority, by the way, and did receive some ridicule from those in green,) and the Catholics wore green. We all wore shamrocks and drank together as friends and neighbours. This was out West, as I said before. I know how different things can be in the East and in the cities. I spent ten years in New England.

I always tell folks the only two prejudices I was really raised with were against Mormons and sheepherders and that is mostly as the two were one in the same when my granddad was growing up on a cattle ranch and had some "run-ins" with them. Thing is we had Mormons in the family and my dad wound up marrying one as did I, though I divorced for other reasons. I also wound up having a couple of bum lambs...go figure!;-) The only real prejudice my dad had about LDS members in his later life was, while living in Utah, he found it very hard to find anyone with which to celebrate St. Patrick's Day, esp. musically.

I hope you find some peace about the way you have been treated and I find it sad you don't feel as though you can go out lest the orange-wearers bother you. I think it is important to remember the bit about the Irish flag and not include individuals in any generalizations.

In Peace,

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: open mike
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 03:33 PM

To Celebrate the Irish yesterday, I went to a local radio station and shared about 6 or 7 c.d.'s on the folk music show. You can see the list of songs and tunes I played on my all-irish radio show on Saturday posted on my blog here www.myspace.com/laurelwoodsorrel. Last weekend I also played live music...i had 4 gigs...with some jigs and reels and hornpipes on the mandolin and several waltzes on the guitar......the Celtic music is wonderful!! I always try to begin or end with "A Health to the Company" a blessing and a toast--with good wishes for all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 04:29 PM

I believe that a pork product available here in Ottawa under the name "cottage roll" is what we have instead of "Irish bacon." Cottage roll is a boned, rolled pork shoulder, wet-cured with something that makes it almost bubblegum pink. It comes packed in stout plastic, and may be sold frozen. You can eat it straight from the package, or steamed. Slice, and serve with Coleman's mustard ...

Soul food of the Celtic diaspora, fer sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 03:00 PM

Early Irish immigrants to the northeast (NY/Boston, etc.) couldn't find the pork product they knew as "bacon" (American-style bacon is quite different), and found that the salty corned beef provided by their fellow iummigrants, the Kosher butchers, was a suitable substitiute for cooking with greens such as cabbage, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: black walnut
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 01:56 PM

Gee, thanks!
~b.w.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 12:51 PM

3... right back atcha!


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 12:17 PM

Best of luck on your trip, Blackie. It's a beautiful country. I've been there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: black walnut
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 11:01 AM

1/4 Irish (my dad's dad was from Dublin) and I'm going to visit Ireland for the first time in just a few weeks. Talk about lucky!

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 09:02 AM

Something I heard on the CBC this morning, on the news yet:

"If you're lucky enough to be Irish -- well, you're lucky enough."


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Lox
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 08:30 AM

"When I get the friendly needle from people wearing orange, I say "Why , thank you! Orange is one of the three colors of the Irish flag, along with green and white. Look you can see them here on my guitar." "


Indeed Seamus,

And that is exactly what the colours of the Irish flag represent - Peace (white) between Catholics (Green) and Protestants (Orange).

And in the republic of Ireland this ideal is an accepted norm which is taken for granted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 07:38 AM

I was told that corned beef is rare in Ireland - that, in general, beef is rare in Ireland.

Right on the first count Joe, I have never seen it anywhere here (but I wasn't looking either in fairness). Corned Beef and Cabbage as the ultimate Irish food is a Yank invention, not to be found here. Bacon and cabbage it is every time.

On the second count you're totally wrong. Irish beef is abundant, had a bit of a dip when the Mad Cow came around but it's all back these days. We're surrounded by the feckin cows to be honest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: 3refs
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 04:17 AM

Happy St. Patrick's Day!
I'll be at the rink all day again today, as I have a minor hockey tourny that runs Mon-Fri. Snows just about all gone, fish huts had to be off the lakes on Sunday, wifes at home recouping from surgery and I swear my golf clubs are calling out to me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:43 PM

Sounds good, Clontarf.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Clontarf83
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 02:29 PM

I play in a little band that includes me (Dublin Catholic), Denis (Belfast Orange), and Keith (suitably neutral American/Canadian)

Without meaning to get grandiose, we honour both traditions, with music from "orange" and "green" sources, among others

War is over (if you want to)...


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 02:12 PM

When I get the friendly needle from people wearing orange, I say "Why , thank you! Orange is one of the three colors of the Irish flag, along with green and white. Look you can see them here on my guitar."


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 01:19 PM

I think most people who wear orange don't know the history, and just think it is cute and want to join in the festivities in their own way. I have never had the experiences you have had, so I understand it is different. But dressing up in shamrocks is an authentic experience and wearing green is authentic..after all it was forbidden in the Auld Sod. We are free to do it here. I have green fingernail polish on and wish I had a tiara like my great niece, which is full of shamrocks and sparkles and lights up even. Corny does not mean inauthentic. What they do in Ireland is not of great concern to us as it is an Irish-American holiday, and very very important to us..me anyway. So celebrate or not as you wish, and as you are closer to Ireland generationally, do it in a religious way or however you want..it is up to you.

I personally will share the day gladly with Japanese, Nigerians, Orangemen and women..as long as everyone is polite. (I won't celebrate with them or from now on anyone not Irish-American, because it is too complicated..the other 364 days a year fine..but I want them to enjoy the day in their own way without me).   Your inlaws are of course abusive, and you need to set boundaries and walk out when they get going. Take separate cars. Just say it is time for me to go. Your husband can follow or not. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,25%
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:45 PM

I think Irish Catholic communities retained a separateness because their religion was different from the older communities in the places they settled. They were usually the first catholic arrivals before later waves of other catholics like the Italians and Poles. In Liverpool it was a bit different they were outsiders in one sense because of their religion but they became insiders because they were absorbed into a new hybrid culture that had many Irish influences.

25%


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:08 PM

First off, Hellooooo everybody. I can't believe it's been 3 years since I last posted. i do stop by and read sometimes and to use the amazon link when shopping.

I find myself drawn to Mudcat every year around my birthday which comes close to St. Patrick's Day and I always find a thread like this. I also usually find some "humorous" post about wearing orange to defy the accursed Catholics and put them in their place.

Now, I have never had a reason to be angry with Katlaughing and I understand that this is some type of family tradition for her so I won't spit on it. I'll just say that growing up when and where I did (USA, NYC, father is 1st generation american) I was sheltered from that kind of thing for a while. When my parents decided they couldn't afford Catholic Schooling and we found ourselves in a town just outside of NYC where my dad was stationed, I got that kind of thing full on and right in the face. I still do get it from my in-laws who think it's hardee-har-har funny.

I'm not gonna get into Plastic Paddy arguments or what the day should be or used to be or anything like that. All I will say is that I prefer to stay at home these days then to venture out in public on the 17th only to have more and more people in orange come up to me and bray drunkenly into my face "this is fer yer you ya filthy papist" and then laugh like it's a joke. It's a bit like walking around in black face on Martin Luther King Day but it's socially acceptable. However, I do realize that it is a joke to them and one that they find simply hilarious.

As I said, I know katlaughing would NEVER EVER do something like that and that she remembers her dad's behavior as being amusing because it wasn't an insult to her. I know families who josh about their dad or grandad singing "coon songs" and Lord help me, I have one or two people in my family who remember one of my great-uncles fondly for doing exactly that. I don't know WHERE that kind of thing comes from because it horrifies me and the rest of the family. I guess laughing at it better than crying about it or getting angry at it and it takes some of the sting out the original insulting intent of such behavior. I'm cool with that.

I have to live with Anti-Catholicism from my inlaws constantly even though I go to Church with their son. To them, born a "filthy papist", you die a "filthy papist" and it is also not cool to be Irish cuz the irish, well, they're not White. I only restate this for other people's info. Kat and the others know this already.

I suppose because I have been taking it on the chin now for 15 years in every way possible from them, I don't see the Orange-wearers as anything but one the last few ways people can get really ugly to you and still claim it's a "just a joke." When I was a younger gal in the late 1980s working in NYC, it was simply horrible to have to go to work on the 17th when I worked on Wall Street because nearly half the staff would be in orange and they all wanted to know why I wasn't wearing Green from head to toe like a buffoon. the answer of course was "I'm not a plastic paddy you bigot and since i've been to Mass already, I've done my bit for the cause today, thanks. When I get home, I'll have something good to eat that is far from corned beef & cabbage, now go away, please." I'm a lot more forgiving these days.

Of course, once actual irish people imoorted the American version of the holiday to ireland and they all started dressing from head to toe in green and wearing shamrock deely-boppers, there's lamost no point in arguing for an authentic experience any more , now is there? ;-)

Katlaughing, you know I adore you and I'm sure your dad would have been very sad if he could have spent a few hours listening to my inlaws harangue me about being Irish and being Catholic, trying to trick me into eating meat on fridays in Lent and telling everyone how relieved they are that I didn't have any children since I likely would have beat them and they would have all had disgusting red hair and freckles. I'm sure to him, the ole Wearin' O'the Orange thing was also a faded memory of an insult passed down to him.

In summary - wearing orange is what it is and what it is perceived to be is colored by your life experience. I used to be horribly put off but I get much worse on a frequent basis and I'v adjusted my view.


(one last big wave to the gang!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:59 AM

heh heh

I PLANNED the whole thing!

Thanks for the good wishes, 25%.

I'll be spending the 17th at home because if I move my car, I'll lose my parking space. I'm close to the parade route and the bars with the you-know-what.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:30 AM

I plan to serve the whole enchilada:

Are they Irish as well? From the kitchen of Jose Malone maybe? :-)

(Sorry Leeneia - couldn't resist it)

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,25%
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 09:47 AM

My Nan's family were from the Netherfield Road area of Liverpool a staunchly Orange Lodge part of the city. I think Orangeism can be turned on and off. Nan had that culture and carried it on in her views but she still married a 100% Irish blood catholic from Vauxhall. It's a funny old world. This 25% Irish person wishes everyone Irish or not a good day for the 17th.

25%


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 01:48 AM

Here's a good way to celebrate the day.

Go to this site:

http://www.oldmusicproject.com/OneilsOcarolans.html

and buy the CD of the MIDI's of O'Neill's Music of Ireland. Then play the music.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 01:34 AM

or perhaps sandwiches - plan B

pumpernickel bread
corned beef, thinly sliced
thin film of mustard

Make Healthfuller cole slaw to go with the sandwiches:

Dressing

Whisk together:

1/2 cup vegetable oil (not olive oil)
1/4 cup lemon or lime juice
if lime juice, add 1/2 tsp dried tarragon
if lemon juice, consider some poppy seeds or sliced carrot
a few grindings of black pepper
scant 1/4 tsp sugar

Slice up a cabbage, or maybe 3/4 of a cabbage. Add to dressing and stir. Keep covered while stored to prevent browning.

The law which requires that cabbage in cole slaw be reduced nearly to a liquid has been repealed. To make cole slaw at home, just chop up the cabbage and eat it.

In summer, you can add cherry tomatoes, whole. Do not cut them, or the slaw will turn an unappetizing pinkish green.
========
We have only one parade to go, The Big One, on March 17th itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 01:50 PM

Good locally prepared corned beef etc, but the canned stuff is good for camping.
Like Leeneia, we enjoy it from time to time.
No matter what you call it, corned beef-potato etc. makes a good dinner.
Corned beef, good bread, lettuce and tomato make a good sandwich too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 12:56 PM

Right on, Joe. Like you, I have bought the corned beef not-in-a-can. The DH is coming home from a business trip on Wednesday, and I plan to serve the whole enchilada:

corned beef
cabbage - steamed for 10 minutes over clear water
boiled potatoes
Irish soda bread.
horseradish on the side
beer

I buy extra packages of the corned beef and keep it in the deep freeze. It lasts for months and comes out for special occasions. I know it's too salty for regular consumption. Best music to go with this: Irish traditional.

By the way, The Joy of Cooking says that few words in the English language vary so much in spelling as 'ketchup.'

Emma, you are so right about the canned corned beef for hash. Once in a while we have it for dinner, with a fried egg on top and a dash of ketchup. This is good food for car camping, too. Best music to go with this: rounds and folk songs such as 'On Top of Old Smoky' sung around the campfire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 12:54 PM

Thank you stringsilver for demonstrating exactly what I was referring to..disrespect for us on St. Patrick's Day..no need to call us Oirish. Thank you for not using the term Plastic Paddy though. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 08:40 AM

An Irish Blessing:
http://www.e-water.net/viewflash.php?flash=irishblessing_en


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Emma B
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 07:07 AM

I've bought salted (or corned) beef in a butchers shops in Skibbereen for a 'special occasion'
It is similar to Jewish salt beef in texture very unlike the S American tinned product sold as corned beef in the UK which does, however, make a terrific corned beef hash.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 12:20 AM

I was told that corned beef is rare in Ireland - that, in general, beef is rare in Ireland. As far as I can tell, corned beef, cabbage, carrots, and potatoes is probably more properly called "New England Boiled Dinner" - at least, that's what they call in in the diners around Boston.
I had something similar in Ireland, but the meat was gammon, the Irish bacon referred to above. It was cured pork that tasted like something between ham and corned beef.
So, we took advantage of the sales and had a New England Boiled Dinner tonight. And everybody thought it was Irish, and everybody said I was a wonderful cook.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Mar 10 - 11:53 PM

Thanks for the song, Charmion. It's good for people to be reminded that despite the attention warmakers get, it's children who suffer the most.
==========
Well, back to Irish-American. I joined six harpers yesterday in a program of Celtic music. We had a small, but pleasant audience - about 30-40 people. Our leader wisely thought an hour of harp would prove monotonous, so she asked me to contribute recorder playing.

I tried to strike a balance between being bored by dull parts and making it look as if here was a recorder player with a six-harp backup band. So I created some low, humming parts, almost like a cello's, and some melody parts. My instruments ranged from the bass (over a yard long) to the sopranino, higher than a D whistle.

The audience learned about all the types of harp. After a while, a woman called out, "I want to know what that instrument is that's like an oboe!" (the bass recorder)

I'm sorry to say that 'When Irish Eyes are Smiling' was dropped.   Maybe the concert was getting too long. Maybe it was the pesky G's and G#'s.

In the evening, I attended an excellent show with story-telling and guitar playing. Sure beats green beer!


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 14 Mar 10 - 09:39 PM

The Stan Rogers song Charmion posted certainly reflects the attitude of our father. When as a teenager I asked him why he did not wear a green tie on St. Patrick's Day, he opined that if he were to mark it sartorially he would wear a black tie.

His first Swiss mercenary ancestor arrived in Lower Canada in the 1790s married to an O'Connor, the daughter of a British Army surgeon, so presumably someone who had the terms of the Test Acts, i.e. a Protestant. In 1849, their son was accused of being Irish in _Le Canadien_: « une variété non encore décrite de l'espèce et qui appartient à aucune nation et nous croyons en partie... » (the elipsis likely stands in for something actionable because the man they were trying to insult was a lawyer). That son married a McGrath, whose father had arrived in Newfoundland from Waterford in 1822.

When my father and his elder brothers found themselves at school in England in the 1920s and '30s, they were bullied in the best English schoolboy fashion for being Irish, and it was a fair cop, by their standards.

Our mother's father, despite bearing the name "Harris," was Montreal Irish, his grandfather having arrived in the 1820s from, I believe, Sligo. He and his brother are identified as "Irish" on the 1891 census, even though they were born in Canada. I asked our grandmother if they were from Griffintown, an Irish working class neighbourhood. She was aghast (her inlaws were lace curtain Irish and she had the furniture to prove it).

We descend from Irishmen on both sides of the family, but I do not feel a strong connection. My experience serving with members of the Irish Free Clothing Society (their armed forces) on UN duty convinced me I had little in common.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Allan Connochie
Date: 14 Mar 10 - 01:09 PM

"By the way 'beating a dead horse' is still a fairly common expression here (Scottish Borders)!"

Sorry I'm havering. Flogging a dead horse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,stringsinger
Date: 14 Mar 10 - 12:53 PM

Danny Boy or Molly Malone are not essentially part of the Catholic liturgy. Therefore,
they should require no religious deference or observance. (I don't have a deference or observance for them personally, regardless). The London Derriere is not essentially Irish. it's a manufactured pop tune from "Oirish" living in New York. Molly Malone is a lovely ballad, however.

To claim a fraudulent respect for a nebulous tradition in America is like saying that
one should genuflect before Mickey Mouse.

However, the Irish tradition of music is respectable and will continue to be vibrant. The plastic bowlers and green beer is the result of a hyped-up St. Pat's day in America.
The sensible Irish will not deify it.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE HOUSE OF ORANGE (Stan Rogers)
From: Charmion
Date: 14 Mar 10 - 12:32 PM

We beat 'em here in the Ottawa Valley, too. I grew up in an Orange village, and the fading away of the Lodge is one aspect of vanishing tradition I have never for a second regretted.

A fine song by Stan Rogers (of blessed memory) sums it up for me. It's called "The House of Orange", and he wrote it during the early 1980s when the IRA was raising funds in Ontario.

Here it is:

THE HOUSE OF ORANGE
(Stan Rogers)
As recorded by Stan Rogers on "From Fresh Water" (1984)

I took back my hand and I showed him the door;
No dollar of mine would I part with this day
For fueling the engine of a bloody cruel war
In my forefather's home far away.
Who fled the first Famine wearing all that they owned,
Were called 'Navigators', all ragged and torn,
And built the Grand Trunk here, and found a new home
Wherever their children were born.

Their sons have no politics. None can recall
Allegiance from long generations before.
O'this or O'that name just can't matter at all
Or be cause enough for to war.
And meanwhile my babies are safe in their home,
Unlike their pale cousins who cower and cry
While kneecappers nail their poor Dads to the floor
And teach them to hate and to die.

It's those cruel beggars who spurn the fair coin.
The peace for their kids they could take at their will.
Since the day old King Billy prevailed at the Boyne,
They've bombed and they've maimed and they've killed.
Now they cry out for money and wail at the door
But Home Rule or Republic, 'tis all of it shame;
And a curse for us here who want nothing of war.
We're kindred in nothing but name.

All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away,
For causes are ashes where children lie slain.
Yet the damned U.D.L. and the cruel I.R.A.
Will tomorrow go murdering again.
But no penny of mine will I add to the fray.
"Remember the Boyne!" they will cry out in vain,
For I've given my heart to the place I was born
And forgiven the whole House of Orange,
King Billy and the whole House of Orange.


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Allan Connochie
Date: 14 Mar 10 - 05:19 AM

"Well, I have enjoyed some of the posters' sharing so I don't feel as though there's been too much beating going on.:-)"

I agree there's only been a little discussion over a point of history. By the 'beating a dead horse' is still a fairly common expression here (Scottish Borders)!


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Subject: RE: BS: Respect on St. Patrick's Day
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 10 - 10:07 PM

Well, I have enjoyed some of the posters' sharing so I don't feel as though there's been too much beating going on.:-)


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