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Soaring Folk anthems?

Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 05:16 AM
Chris Green 09 Mar 10 - 06:42 AM
Emma B 09 Mar 10 - 06:52 AM
Tootler 09 Mar 10 - 06:56 AM
Banjiman 09 Mar 10 - 07:06 AM
Jack Campin 09 Mar 10 - 07:47 AM
Mr Happy 09 Mar 10 - 07:54 AM
GUEST,Abdul at work 09 Mar 10 - 08:29 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 08:32 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 08:43 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 08:44 AM
Jack Campin 09 Mar 10 - 08:48 AM
tijuanatime 09 Mar 10 - 08:49 AM
the Folk Police 09 Mar 10 - 09:20 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 09:28 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 09:30 AM
G-Force 09 Mar 10 - 09:43 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 09:48 AM
Jack Campin 09 Mar 10 - 11:16 AM
Little Hawk 09 Mar 10 - 12:05 PM
gnomad 09 Mar 10 - 12:09 PM
Will Fly 09 Mar 10 - 12:22 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Mar 10 - 12:27 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 12:30 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 09 Mar 10 - 12:32 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 12:32 PM
Jack Campin 09 Mar 10 - 12:43 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 09 Mar 10 - 01:04 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 09 Mar 10 - 01:05 PM
Little Robyn 09 Mar 10 - 01:38 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 02:02 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 02:07 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 09 Mar 10 - 02:17 PM
GUEST,Bardan 09 Mar 10 - 02:25 PM
Jack Campin 09 Mar 10 - 02:49 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 02:52 PM
Artful Codger 09 Mar 10 - 03:43 PM
GUEST,mg 09 Mar 10 - 03:52 PM
JohnB 09 Mar 10 - 03:59 PM
VirginiaTam 09 Mar 10 - 04:57 PM
Jack Campin 09 Mar 10 - 05:06 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 09 Mar 10 - 05:20 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 10 - 06:07 PM
Tootler 09 Mar 10 - 07:03 PM
Tattie Bogle 09 Mar 10 - 07:07 PM
GUEST,Russ 09 Mar 10 - 09:59 PM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Mar 10 - 04:10 AM
GUEST,Abdul absent 10 Mar 10 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,Abdul still absent 10 Mar 10 - 09:01 AM
Splott Man 10 Mar 10 - 09:29 AM
Richard Bridge 10 Mar 10 - 10:07 AM
G-Force 10 Mar 10 - 11:00 AM
DonMeixner 10 Mar 10 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Gail 10 Mar 10 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,leeneia 10 Mar 10 - 07:54 PM
Tattie Bogle 11 Mar 10 - 07:50 PM
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Subject: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 05:16 AM

I am hoping to corrupt a friend - to introduce her to folk music, so I'm not being anal at the moment about whether it's 1954 folk, anglicana, americana, celtic, or what.

She is a pretty spectacular singer - 4 octave range and some - but does mostly soul and what is called R&B these days, spreading out to disco. Her background is originally New Zealand, but now naturalised British, cosmopolitan and internationally mobile.

I reckon I can find a chink in her armour if I can get her some recordings that are just raw enough, of the killer folk anthems. What I really want to do is to send her links to online versions.

An obvious one is Carrick Fergus (wossname of a range on that) so long as one avoids the ghastly Charlotte Church version and any with any of the interpolated sentimental verses (although a macaronic verse would be OK).

Another might be Paxton's "My Lady's a wild flying dove".

Then there's Watson's "Watercress-O"

Another possible might be "Henry the Poacher" (with the chorus that I suspect was added later, but it has a good hook "Young Men Beware!").

Do you get my drift on the type of song - it sort of cruises along, you can feel the tension building, and then it soars off and demands quite a range? I'd like to include some mainland UK songs in the list, but not many seem to have that sort of characteristic soaring, even if say "The Gairdener Child" does require almost 2 octaves.

What should I suggest she links to?





Another


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Chris Green
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 06:42 AM

How about 'Who Knows Where The Time Goes'? Or for that matter any early Fairport featuring Sandy Denny!


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 06:52 AM

My Lagan Love soars a bit and is one of my favourites


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Tootler
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 06:56 AM

Almost anything by Joan Baez. In her heyday her singing voice had a similar range to that of your friend and she certainly soared. Also much of her repertoire was of traditional songs so you will get a lot of choice of songs.

Most traditional songs do not have a large range. I can manage Carrickfergus if I pitch it right and my vocal range is about a twelfth - maybe a little more on a good day.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 07:06 AM

Try this version of The Blacksmith . First song on the player.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 07:47 AM

The normal classification of classical voice types gives them ranges of a bit over two octaves. Four octaves means exotic techniques like the Roy Hart school or Tibeto-Mongolian throat singing. No way are you going to find that in British Isles folk tradition. The nearest place you get it is in the "kulning" (women's cow calling) of Norway - look it up.

"Danny Boy" sounds like it's got a wide range, but it's only an octave and a sixth. What you are implying is that your friend could sing that in three different ranges, each overlapping the next by only one note. I kinda doubt it.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 07:54 AM

Sorry, misread title - first glance thought was 'Scaring Folk Anthems'!!

However, going for eye test on Thursday! 8-)


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: GUEST,Abdul at work
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 08:29 AM

Hills of Ardmorn has a bit of a soar in it.
Al


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 08:32 AM

Friend actually says that she has a wider range than Minnie Ripperton.

Gairdner Child appears to be octave and five semitones (A to D).

Carrick Fergus octave and seven (G to D). I'll try those links


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 08:43 AM

OMG - I cannot get past the curious phrasing and breathing patters of that Sinead O'Connor version, sorry Emma.   - and I'd sooner be more kind of mainland British.

Wendy Arrowsmith's is a nice version of "The Blacksmith", but I'm not getting the great liftoff soaring hook feeling out of it.

Coal Town Road (aka "Blue Tattoo") has a nice hook, too, but again I'm getting further and further from mainland UK.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 08:44 AM

Baez is an idea - I had no idea how good she really was until I saw the Woodstock documentary.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 08:48 AM

I hadn't heard Minnie Ripperton before - if "Lovin You" is typical, what she does is very much like kulning (though kulning singers stay in the high register for much longer at a time).


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: tijuanatime
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 08:49 AM

You might want to try this

Scarcely a month old.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: the Folk Police
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 09:20 AM

Cor blimey, Tij! That's wonderful.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 09:28 AM

Excellent example of English song going to the USA. I must now go and find that version of "Georgie" that Martin Carthy found in a traveller community to compare them!


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 09:30 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Aj_cEP-PdA

Not the same at all.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: G-Force
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 09:43 AM

Maybe investigate the songs of Robert Burns. Many have range of 2 octaves plus.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 09:48 AM

It isn't so much the overall range as that sense of soaring.

I've got another one - the Cadgwith Anthem (with the high part of the rising line). Anyone know of a decent online rendition?


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 11:16 AM

Susanne Rosenberg's kulning site

Frifot

LaPrelle is powerful stuff but her range isn't anything special.

There really isn't anything in British-Isles/American folk that calls for a voice with that sort of range. Maybe she could try scat-singing the clarinet part from this?

The Burning Bush


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 12:05 PM

Curiously enough, I once used those very words in a song I wrote about Joan Baez:

"and you sang us soaring anthems that could pierce right through the heart"


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: gnomad
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 12:09 PM

Eric Bogle's Safe in the Harbour would be one that springs to mind.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 12:22 PM

There's always Bonnie Raitt: The Dimming Of The Day

My favourite version of this is the live version by Linda Thompson, but this is pretty anthemic.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 12:27 PM

She moved through the fair? Maybe Simple Minds 'Belfast Child' words if you want to sneak up on her:-)

Some pretty good stuff by Maddy Prior with the Carnival Band but I cannot put my finger on which just at the mo.

Good luck anyway.

DeG


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 12:30 PM

Who is the keyboard player on that Raitt track? He is fantastic! I like her more blues stuff but I don't like her singing or playing on that, and whoever set that lovely Gibson of hers up to twang like that needs shooting! Oh, and I don't like the song.

gnomad, have you a link to that Bogie?

Has anyone got any good links to early Baez?

Or to the Burns songs referred to by G-Force? Although range is not the issue but the sense of "Whoopee, there it goes".

Or to a decent recording of the Cadgwith Anthem?


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 12:32 PM

FOUR octaves? Holy crap RB, that's some kinda singing superpowers! My Early English singing tutor told me I had an unusually good range, and I fit Jack's two and a half (*just* - with some oiling)

Otherwise - regards Sinead's Lagan Love, don't be put off by a particular singers breathing techniches or phrasing. If your friend's a singer, she will see straight through those surface elements and hear the *arrangement* and think about it in terms of how she might approach it it herself. That's what I think anyhoo.

As an aside. For my part I hate 'Enayisation' of anything - but Sinead - while not technically brilliant a far as I can tell, has a deeply emotional voice. She's like a naturally gorgeous girl, who slaps on heaps too much makeup because she thinks the boys will fancy her that way.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 12:32 PM

I have a vinyl of the Belfast Child - it's too muddled up with all that rock backing.

There was a God-Rock band in the early 70s called "Longdancer" who did a great soarer called "If it was so simple". I have that, but it plainly isn't anything to do with any sort of folk.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 12:43 PM

G-Force has probably made the best suggestion yet among British songs. Burns sometimes adopted fiddle tunes and ended up with some fairly strange results.

"Sensibility how charming", to the tune of "Cornwallis' lament for Col. Moorhouse". A below the staff to B above it. You don't hear that every week in folk clubs (in fact I've never heard it at all). Can anyone trump it?


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 01:04 PM

"Do you get my drift on the type of song - it sort of cruises along, you can feel the tension building, and then it soars off and demands quite a range?"

Hmm. I'm not a muso, so these thoughts might not be accurate, But hey ho: Seems to me what you're after is a *modern arrangement* of a trad. song which has a wide range built into the original melody - but the modern arrangement adjusts the dynamics? Take this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uNn2TDDru0 which I copied pretty much straight off a year ago. It's actually got more range in it than the steady plodding rythm and gently gently arrangement would imply. I could imagine this same song done with a different arrangement and resultant totally adjusted 'souring' dynamics from the vocalist. I mean, what would Bonny Tyler or Elaine Page do with it?


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 01:05 PM

Souring? Heh, can singing curdle milk? Wouldn't be surprised.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 01:38 PM

Maybe not a huge range but if she has a Kiwi background, I found that Pokarekare Ana goes down very well with British audiences.
If she needs the words they're here
on John Archer's NZ Folk site.
She might find other songs that interest her as well.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 02:02 PM

Two suggestions by PM that have the "soaring" - Lowlands Away, and SHenandoah.

Elaine Paige? Wash your mouth out with soap and water!


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 02:07 PM

Hmm - Willie of Winsbury, eh? That Pentangle version does it no justice, despite McShea's ability: again the lyricism is lost by the rigid timing, and although the tension builds and builds, the song itself never really cuts loose


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 02:17 PM

"That Pentangle version does it no justice, despite McShea's ability: again the lyricism is lost by the rigid timing,"

Exactly my point. It seems to me that you may be seeking a much more *contemporary* dramatic or theatrical style arrangement (which is why I asked you to imagine how Elaine Page would sing WoW*) of a traditional melody - which re-shapes the original tempo and dynamics, to suit a more modern 'soaring' rock-opera-ish vocal styling.





* albeit that not being the original melody!


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 02:25 PM

Anachie Gordon moves around a bit range wise and the story's a good one one.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 02:49 PM

With a voice like Richard is describing, this is somebody who could become the Saynho Namtchilak of British folk. I don't believe there *is* any model she could look to. She'd have to do her own arranging of much more basic material.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 02:52 PM

Yes, thank you Bardan, I've found, following your suggestion, a version by Mary Black that I quite like


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 03:43 PM

"Green Fields of France" (Eric Bogle)
"In the Eye Abides the Heart" (Wilhelm Abt/Stephen Foster)
"The Scarlet Tide" (Elvis Costello, for the movie "Cold Mountain")
"Beata viscera" (Perotin/Philip the Chancellor, 12th c.)

Lots of stuff by Joni Mitchell - talk about a soaring voice!

There are a fair number of cowboys songs with soaring yodels, but I don't suppose that would appeal so much to your friend.

The soarers that most readily spring to my mind are Russian romances and Lambert, Hendricks and Ross numbers (like "Twisted" and "Bijou"). Folk music, in the sense of being performable and performed by regular folks, pretty much excludes songs with a challenging range. Traditional folk songs also tend to have no bridge (which seems implicit in your description of "soaring"). At best, they have long verses with a soaring part about 2/3 the way through the verse, or have the highest bits deferred to a chorus.

I extend the range in a number of songs by mixing "harmony" notes into the melody line; this is also a device for making songs "soar" a bit more at certain spots only.

Singing harmony offers terrific opportunities for exploiting both ends of one's range. Your friend could also do dialog songs with each character in a different register. ;-}


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 03:52 PM

Well, keep her in mind for our national anthem. mg


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: JohnB
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 03:59 PM

"Blackwaterside" for range, "Somewhere Along the Road" for a brilliant song.
Just read the other day, Rob Halford (Judas Priest) has a four octave range, I can get to three with a following wind.
JohnB.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 04:57 PM

Johnny has gone for a soldier

Siúil a Ruin

The Corries - Lowlands

I have a very different but no less compelling version of Lowlands done by Odetta.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 05:06 PM

Most claims of extreme ranges are bollocks aimed at punters who don't know how to check (hence the nonsense about Mariah Carey, who is a rather ordinary soprano). I would suspect the same about Halford unless someone provides some firm evidence.

Minnie Ripperton could do things to musical effect across the whole of her range, but it doesn't seem like she could sing intelligible words up at the top. The top end was a sort of highly controlled and accurately pitched yodel.

The Queen of the Night's aria in The Magic Flute is one of the most notoriously extreme pieces in the entire classical repertoire. Nobody sings it with really clear verbal articulation at the top of the range. It sits higher than most soprano parts, but its range is only two octaves.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 05:20 PM

No idea about other people's ranges. But simple way to frigg around with a standrad trad. melody (which by virtue of democratic process are not composed with exceptional singers in mind) is to plump for the old 'key change' drama thing. Not exactly original but it does the job!


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 06:07 PM

Black Waterside (the Anne Briggs version) is, allowing for the fact that the known recording is well off concert, is G to D - an octave and 7 semitones. To drift a bit, it's a song that I don't really know of a decent version of. The Jansch riff wrecks the timing: there is one bloke on Youboob who has promise, he nearly gets the timing right but his singing is kak. I can hear it in my head, but of course I can't do it!

What is "Somewhere along the road"? I don't know it.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Tootler
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 07:03 PM

Some Joan Baez

From the 60's:

It Ain't me Babe

With God on our Side

500 Miles & There but for Fortune

More recent:

Lily of the West (Flora)

House of the Rising Sun


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 07:07 PM

As Jack C has said, many Burns songs borrowed fiddle tunes, hence the range. My Love is like a red, red rose springs to mind as being quite taxing for some, if only an octave plus a 5th.

Maybe not so huge in range, but definitely anthemic is John Tams' "Rolling Home": the last time I went to one of his concerts he did it as the encore, and the audience were still singing the chorus long after he'd left the stage. I also sang it in a chorus cup competition and had folk singing it in two bars, the hallway and all the way up the stairs!


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 09:59 PM

Google "Custer Larue"

Check out clips from "The Demon Lover" and "Ballads."

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 04:10 AM

Unfashionable now, but Pleasant And Delightful soars in the chorus, and everyone knows it.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: GUEST,Abdul absent
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 08:57 AM

You need the maddy prior version of Somewhere along the Road Richard, can't find it on Utube

This is good also I live not where I love - M Prior

Al


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: GUEST,Abdul still absent
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 09:01 AM

or maybe I can, not as good a version as the one I have at home tho.
Somewhere along the road.

Al


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Splott Man
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 09:29 AM

Blue Murder's version of the gospel song Where No-one Stands Alone. Tried it myself, and it's very demanding.
Can't find a video that's not churchy though. Elvis did it once.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 10:07 AM

Ah - I did know it Abdul, sorry.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: G-Force
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 11:00 AM

'Lovely on the Water' (the Steelye Span version, sung by Maddy Prior) also comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 11:18 AM

So far I have heard a bunch of nice songs but how is it that any of them are anthems? They have a bit of reach for th average voice maybe but I just ain't getting the anthem bit.

D


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: GUEST,Gail
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 11:19 AM

Hi all. I'm not a huge fan of soaring sopranos but many years ago I heard Graham and Eileen Pratt singing 'Lad of Lovely Hair' and have never forgotten it.
I've just listened to it on their website and it's still superb. I'm no good at the blue clickies, but it was very easy to find.

It's not an anthem but it's a gorgeous tune and swoops like a good 'un. Another website says it's a traditional Gaelic song arranged by Flora McDonald.


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:54 PM

It doesn't have a big range, but I think the song 'Pleasant and Delightful' might be suitable, Richard.

How about Greensleeves?


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Subject: RE: Soaring Folk anthems?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 07:50 PM

Ok, from tonight at Murrayfield stadium: a tribute to Bill McLaren "The Voice of Rugby".
"Flower of Scotland" sung by Ronnie Browne (the surviving Corrie)
"Cwm Rhondda"(Bread of Heaven) and "Land of My Fathers" sung by Morriston Orpheus Welsh male voice choir.
A special version of "Caledonia" by Dougie Maclean.
And a lone piper playing "Highland Cathedral" after all the lights went out.


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