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Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it

Tradsinger 15 Mar 10 - 01:01 PM
Jack Campin 15 Mar 10 - 01:14 PM
Tradsinger 15 Mar 10 - 02:15 PM
Goose Gander 15 Mar 10 - 02:36 PM
IvanB 15 Mar 10 - 02:49 PM
Tradsinger 15 Mar 10 - 03:08 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 10 - 03:51 PM
Steve Gardham 16 Mar 10 - 02:00 PM
Steve Gardham 16 Mar 10 - 02:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Mar 10 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 30 Jul 14 - 05:58 AM
Teribus 30 Jul 14 - 06:11 AM
Seamus Kennedy 31 Jul 14 - 02:05 AM
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Subject: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Tradsinger
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 01:01 PM

My son-in-law recently collected a song from his grandfather in Lincolnshire. Here is the first verse and chorus:

Now once I loved with a true affection
All her thoughts they were on me
Until a dark boy did persuade her
Then she thought no more of me.

So go and leave me if you wish it,
Never let me cross your mind
For if you find me so unworthy
Go and leave me, never mind.

I am aware of several English versions of the song (Daisy Chapman, Percy Webb etc) but am curious as to the origin of it. I have found several American versions under 'Dear Companion' and 'Colombus Stockade' and would like to know which side of the pond the song first appeared, when, and whether there is a known composer.

Thanks

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 01:14 PM

That one is in Greig-Duncan collection, and they'll have historical notes on it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Tradsinger
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 02:15 PM

The notes to the Daisy Chapman CD (who was Scottish, not English as I said) have the following:

One must presume that this is an American song, since 51 of Roud's 76 instances are from there. Henry Burstow, Charlie Wills and Percy Webb knew it in England, as does Maggie McGee from Inis Eoghain - and a good many other Irish singers too, who are not mentioned in the Index. In Scotland, only Dodie Chalmers and Davie Stewart (both of Aberdeen) have been recorded singing it. Mike Yates has unissued recordings of it from both Fred Jordan and Walter Pardon.

I can add to this that there was a Hampshire version collected in the 60s and unpublished.

Any more info?

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Goose Gander
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 02:36 PM

This is a fairly common song in North America, and I'm sure we've talked about it before, but the search engine just doesn't search the way it used to. So I guess we could start over.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: IvanB
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 02:49 PM

Earlier thread here: thread.cfm?threadid=71063

Also check DT under "Dear Companion" and/or "Once I loved."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Tradsinger
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 03:08 PM

Ah, that's what I was after. Many thanks IvanB. I have copied and pasted the following from the thread you mentioned:

Br�an
Dear Companion (The Broken Heart; Go and Leave Me If You Wish To, Fond Affection)
DESCRIPTION: "I once did have a dear companion (or: "love with fond affection"); Indeed I thought his love my own Until a dark eyed girl betrayed me And now he cares no more for me." The girl, looking at her baby, recalls her unfaithful love and regrets her shame
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1909 (Belden)
KEYWORDS: love infidelity pregnancy lyric floatingverses
FOUND IN: US(Ap,SE,So) Britain(Scotland)
REFERENCES (12 citations):
Belden, pp. 209-210, "Fond Affection" (1 text)
Randolph 755, "The Broken Heart" (7 texts plus 1 excerpt and mention of 1 more, 2 tunes, though some, especially the fragments, may not go here; the "A" text contains material from "I Loved You Better Than You Knew" and several others, notably "H," are or are mixed with "The Broken Engagement (II -- We Have Met and We Have Parted)"' "F" is "Thou Hast Learned to Love Another")
Randolph/Cohen, pp. 493-495, "The Broken Heart" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 755A)
Sharp/Karpeles-80E 43, "The Dear Companion" (1 text, 1 tune)
Ord, pp. 181-182, "Go And Leave Me If You Wish To" (1 text)
BrownII 153, "Fond Affection" (13 text, including several much longer than the usual versions; the "M" text in particular seems conflate; the first four verses may be a separate song beginning "Darling, do you know who loves you?")
Chase, p. 166, "(Dear Companion") (1 text, tune referenced)
Spaeth-WeepMore, pp. 32-33, "Now Go and Leave Me If You Wish" (1 text)
MacSeegTrav 59, "Blue-Eyed Lover" (1 text, 1 tune, an incredibly composite version I file here for lack of any better idea; it has lyrics from many songs of this type and even "The Widow in the Cottage by the Sea")
Sandburg, p. 323, "Fond Affection" (1 short text, with this title and some lyrics which belong here but with other elements reminiscent of "Carrickfergus")
Silber-FSWB, p. 164, "Dear Companion" (1 text)
DT, DEARCOMP* GOLEAVME ONCEILUV
Roud #411
RECORDINGS:
Dock Boggs, "I Hope I Live a Few More Days" (on Boggs3, BoggsCD1 -- an incredibly complex composite of lost love/abandonment songs, jumbled together and confused, but seemingly with more lines from this song than any other)
Carter Family, "Fond Affection" (Montgomery Ward M-4744, 1935; Zonophone [Australia] 4364, n.d.)
Crowder Brothers, "Leave Me Darling, I Don't Mind" (Melotone 7-04-70, 1937)
Clarence Green, "Fond Affection" (Columbia 15311-D, 1928)
Sid Harkreader, "Many Days With You I Wandered" (Vocalion 15100, 1925)
Kelly Harrell, "Bye and Bye You Will Forget Me" (Victor 20535, 1926; on KHarrell02 -- clearly this song, though it borrows lyrics from "Bye and Bye You Will Forget Me")
Mainer's Mountaineers "Let Her Go God Bless Her" (Bluebird [Canada] B-6104, 1935)
David Miller, "Many Times With You I've Wandered" (Champion 15429, 1928)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Wayfaring Stranger" (approximate tune) and references there
cf. "The Bonny Boy (I)" (lyrics)
cf. "Columbus Stockade Blues" (lyrics)
cf. "Sweet Heaven (II)" (lyrics)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Once I Loved with Fond Affection
If It's In Your Heart
I Once Did Love Your Fond Affection
Fond of Affection
Raven Dark Hair
Fond Devotion
Future Days
Separation
Notes: This piece would appear to break up into two subfamilies, "Dear Companion" ("I once did have a dear companion") and "A Fond Affection." I tried to separate the two -- but when I saw the incredible mixture in Randolph, I gave up. - RBW
It's also getting harder to distinguish "Columbus Stockade Blues" from this song. We use the "Columbus Stockade" line as a marker, but several versions of "Dear Companion" overlap heavily with that song in lyrics. - PJS


Thanks, Mudcatters, you've come up with goods again.

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 03:51 PM

Greig included it in his 'Folk Songs of the North East with this note:
"GO AND LEAVE ME IF YOU WISH IT
This song, judging from the numbers of requests one sees for it in the public prints, must be pretty popular throughout the country. We have got three local records of it. They vary a good deal, showing that the song has been traditional for a while, although it cannot be very old. We have a record of the tune got from an elderly lady in Buchan."

His comment about it being "not very old" make sense as the lack of characterisation and the somewhat sentimental feel appear to suggest it being Victorian.
It is quite popular in Ireland; we got a few versions from Travellers under the title 'Once I had a Fair Haired Lover', though most of these were very similar textually.
Probably the most popular version in Ireland is that sung in unison by The Keane Sisters of County Galway.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 02:00 PM

Occurs on later British broadsides that could be as late as 1900, printed by Sanderson of Edinburgh and Forth of Hull. There is a copy in the Baring Gould BL collection that has a different first line 'Years have passed since first he met me.'. Usual broadside start is 'Once I loved with fond affection'. I'd say an American origin is likely, possibly a minstrel song. According to Kilgarriff Tommy Armstrong of Tyneside set his 'Trimdon Grange Explosion' to it in 1882. The tunes I know to 'Go and Leave me' aren't the one I've heard sung to 'Trimdon Grange' but that's likely a more recent setting. Sharp calls it 'The Dear Companion' in the FS from the Appallachians set.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 02:01 PM

Appollogies for the apaling spelling of Appalachian.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 04:24 PM

The threads should be combined.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 05:58 AM

Just came across this- a lovely song, still heard OFTEN at singing sessions in Ireland. Can confirm Steve G's comment that Tommy Armstrong set his song 'Trimdon Grange Explosion' to that tune. Armstrong wrote the words of his songs, then under the title line, gave the air.
There is a collection of his songs from 1909 which does just that-
    tune- 'Go and Leave me if you wish it'
I recorded it myself to that tune on my 'Lights on the River' CD in 2004.

The explosion was in February 1882, and his song was written soon after, to raise funds for miners' families so the 'Go and leave me' song is at least as old as that.

I have heard that what has become regarded as the 'original' tune for Armstrong's song was applied by AL Lloyd from his collection of tunes from Eastern Europe- I can only guess that it was taken up by Louis Killen & that has become regarded as the 'original' tune. Bob Davenport set it to yet another tune in the early 70s & I recorded that on a 1975 LP (gramophone record!) 'Trimdon'- complicated, isn't it!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 06:11 AM

The late Judy Dinning - "Once I Loved"

Wonderful singer, beautiful rendition.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Go and leave me if you wish it
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 02:05 AM

That is beautiful. Thanks, Teribus.


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